January 8, 2018

"Trump Administration Rules That Nearly 200,000 Salvadorans Must Leave, Officials Say."

The NYT reports.
The officials... said that the administration was ending a humanitarian program, known as Temporary Protected Status, for Salvadorans who have been allowed to live and work legally in the United States since a pair of devastating earthquakes struck their country in 2001....

[D]espite its name, the administration says, the Temporary Protected Status program had turned into a quasi-permanent benefit for hundreds of thousands of people.... It provides temporary lawful status and work authorization to people already in the United States, whether they entered legally or not, from countries affected by armed conflict, natural disaster or other strife....

In 2016, the final time [the protections were extended], the government cited several factors, including drought, poverty and widespread gang violence in El Salvador, as reasons to keep the protections in place.

83 comments:

Tommy Duncan said...

"Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman

YoungHegelian said...

Is there something about the word "Temporary" that's beyond people's ken?

anti-de Sitter space said...

What's next? Big lizards?

"They shipped his ass to El Salvador!"

"Big lizard in my backyard
Can't afford to feed him anymore
Big lizard in my backyard
Bustin' down my neighbour's door

I bought a big lizard
Only a dollar fifty
Well, that's pretty neat
Yeah it's fuckin' nifty
But I just can't afford to feed it
And you should see the way it shits

I've got a big lizard in my backyard
Can't afford to feed it anymore
Big lizard in my backyard
Bustin' down my neighbour's door

I was knocked outta bed
Late last night
I was woken up by the sound of dynamite
I ran downstairs to find an army man
He said "We gotta blow up those things we don't understand!"

There's no more big lizard in my backyard
I won't have to feed him anymore
No more lizard in my backyard
They shipped his ass to El Salvador!"

rehajm said...

Leverage.

Fernandistein said...

In 2018 the protections will be extended due to widespread Twitters in
El Salvador.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I feel for those people, but obviously we can't let every person whose home country is a shithole move here for that reason. Common sense.

David said...

Or Congress could act to make some or all of them permanent residents.

Fat chance. Too risky for the Congresscritters.

David said...

"we can't let every person whose home country is a shithole move here for that reason."

We didn't let "every person" come. We allowed 200,000. That is a lot of people and perhaps more than we should on a permanent basis. On the other hand (it's not entirely clear) most seem to have acquired jobs and are self supporting.

I'd like to see a reliable data based article on just how these people are doing, rather than the vagueness we are presented with.

Dave said...

No problem. Trudeau says Canada will take them.

YoungHegelian said...

Is there some way we can fix these problems at the source, i.e. help make "shithole" countries into something not quite so shitty? Ya know, come up with a Marshall Plan of some sort? But, it'd have to be a Marshall Plan with teeth, with clauses for the local gentries that if we catch you skimming off of funds for the locals, we dispatch a squad of Marines who'll put you through a wood chipper feet first. Otherwise, what will happen is what happens with most foreign aid now -- it ends up lining the pockets of the local elites.

Seriously, haven spoken to quite a few Salvadorans who work (legally) at my favorite local pizzeria, what these countries need is a foundational tradition of Rule of Law. How one changes a society to create such a mentality is beyond me, I'm afraid.

Nonapod said...

In the days leading up to the decision, immigrant advocates and the El Salvadoran government pleaded for the United States to extend the program, as it has several times since 2001, saying that conditions in El Salvador were still dire.

Every country in Central America could be described as having conditions that are "dire". And it's extremely unlikely that those conditions will improve any time soon. And it's not just Central America that has dire conditions, most of sub saharan Africa is pretty god damned dire, not to mention many places in Southeast Asia. There's not shortage of third world hell holes across the globe. The World Bank says that something like 800 million people live on less than $1.90 a day.

Achilles said...

They learned important things while here right? Maybe these people can go back to their countries and help them not be shit holes?

Bay Area Guy said...

Good. Go back home, and then apply LEGALLY for citizenship. It's not hard.

Matthew Sablan said...

Ending it immediately seems harsh. If it must be ended, it should be phased out (on a clear, unalterable calendar) so people don't have the rug yanked out from under them.

n.n said...

200,000 is not quite a mass exodus, but is indicative of a significant anomaly.

i.e. help make "shithole" countries into something not quite so shitty

Emigration reform.

tcrosse said...

Salvadorans could be replaced by the Puerto Ricans who are leaving en masse, and who are already US citizens.

AJ Lynch said...

As if the fed govt even knows where all these people are.

CJinPA said...

El Salvador experiences daily, localized earthquakes that target these specific 200,000 temporary residents. They must not be returned.

n.n said...

The Marshall Plan for Western Europe worked. It's a matter of helping people to help themselves.

Ending it immediately seems harsh.

Yes, but so was immigration reform; although, the impact and disruption has probably been absorbed. Ideally, they will highlight the issues at both ends: emigration and immigration, on a forward basis.

Sarah from VA said...

It's not being ended immediately. The article indicates that they have until the fall of 2019 to make their plans and move, which is a reasonable timeline.

It does seem like this was a bad idea to begin with. Either have people enter permanently or provide temporary housing and assistance in their home country. Having them move thousands of miles, learn a new language/culture, and get settled into it all under the threat of having their status renewed or not every year and a half isn't helpful. Especially since many have had children, who are US citizens that may not even know Spanish now -- yet they had to always know that their status was temporary. I feel bad for them. It's a crummy situation. But it was always a crummy law/statute/whatever.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Is there some way we can fix these problems at the source, i.e. help make "shithole" countries into something not quite so shitty?

I hate to be cynical and libertard about this, but that sounds an awful lot like an endless black hole sucking in American money and responsibility. Why is it our job to fix El Salvador, or any of the other dozens of countries that have terrible quality of life? I think, reluctantly, that the only answer is to let these countries go through their growth pains and figure their shit out.

Vance said...

Democrat politicians everywhere screaming in anguish: "There goes my voters and their dead cousins that voted too! Oh well--it's not like they knew they voted for me, after all. Heck, they probably don't even think they can vote--and they are right! That's why we cast their ballots for them--under an assumed name."

--Vance

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Every country in Central America could be described as having conditions that are "dire". And it's extremely unlikely that those conditions will improve any time soon. And it's not just Central America that has dire conditions, most of sub saharan Africa is pretty god damned dire, not to mention many places in Southeast Asia. There's not shortage of third world hell holes across the globe. The World Bank says that something like 800 million people live on less than $1.90 a day.

My point exactly. Do we owe safety and comfort to all these people?

Rob said...

It takes a long time to recover from a big earthquake.

I wonder, though, how many of the 200,000 are now the parents of U.S. citizens and entitled to return on that basis.

Vance said...

More seriously: The only real way to fix these places is to give them a good old anglo-saxon set of ethics. Mix with solid Christian individual ethics and personal responsibility. Then a heavy dose of the rule of Law. Holding people accountable is the foundation of civilization. The problem with all of these third world disasters is the lack of people being held responsible plus a lack of integrity in the people generally (there's always exceptions, thankfully). That lack of integrity comes from a lack of accountability and, frankly, a lax set of moral standards. Too many people who don't practice the Catholicism they allegedly believe in.

--Vance

Andrew said...

We can't even fix our own "dire" conditions in the inter-cities.

But, yes colonization is the traditional way of fixing third world countries. Otherwise, we can send aid to enrich the already rich.

n.n said...

give them a good old anglo-saxon set of ethics

The much derided, frequently copied, Protestant work ethic and moral orientation. It's not a sin...

n.n said...

colonization is the traditional way of fixing third world countries

It works for the Chinese, in places as far as Africa, without a peep from the usual sources.

CJ said...

Even the NY Times admits that the visa was temporary. I mean, shame on Bush/Obama for not making them return sooner, but seriously - do words just not mean anything anymore?

Oso Negro said...

Hasta la vista, baby!

Unknown said...

"Is there some way we can fix these problems at the source, i.e. help make "shithole" countries into something not quite so shitty? "

NAFTA was, in part, just such a scheme to help improve conditions in Mexico.

Puerto Ricans are US Citizens. From whence comes the United States' obligation to do anything for the people of some god forsaken somewhere else like El Salvador?

-sw

mockturtle said...

This may sound harsh but, if we let in unlimited numbers of shithole nation immigrants, won't we eventually become...a shithole?

Jersey Fled said...

Once again, this is a 100% government created problem. Allow persons from a foreign country to TEMPORARILY enter the U.S because of a natural disaster for 18 months, then allow them to stay for 17 YEARS and complain that we can't send them back now because of the hardship it would create.

What if we had just required them to return after 18 months as the law required? Or required them to apply for permanent status. No more big problem with children born here. And I'm guessing all of those hard working, gainfully employed, Tax paying Salvadorans might even be a big asset in their own country.

Let's call this what it was-another backdoor program to allow more low skilled, Democrat leaning immigrants into the country who otherwise wouldn't qualify.

This stuff has to stop. It's a shame it's so hard on so many when someone finally does it. But maybe drawing the line here prevents the next such program from drawing in another 200,000 who would likewise suffer.

Ray said...

It’s negotiation points / pressure from Trump to force a deal.

mockturtle said...

Jersey observes: Allow persons from a foreign country to TEMPORARILY enter the U.S because of a natural disaster for 18 months, then allow them to stay for 17 YEARS and complain that we can't send them back now because of the hardship it would create.

It's like the boy who killed his parents asking for mercy because he's an orphan. Yes, this whole system is broken. Tear it down and start over.

AJ Lynch said...

How many other immigration programs do we have that almost none of us ever heard of? And who makes up these rules as we go along?

AJ Lynch said...

I love to know how Bandy Lee, the loopy Yale psychiatrist, got here.

lgv said...

Luckily, they can move to Mexico, a country that believes in open borders and will open their arms to these poor displaced people.

What? No? Nevemind.

n.n said...

Judge Navarro became Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Nevada

Judge Navarro assisted in providing training to Mexican prosecutors and their investigators as part of a program coordinated by the Nevada Attorney General’s Office to assist the Mexican agency as they undertake significant judicial reforms.

Here's one way we can help: on-site training. Promote the native good, which promotes the general Welfare of its neighbors - Circle of Friends protocol. An ever expanding COF.

Luke Lea said...
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Luke Lea said...
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Luke Lea said...

Instead of a wall, e-verify, and deportations, a biometric Social Security card (in place of the current cardboard version) may be the most realistic way to enforce our immigration laws, I think. You would need it not only to vote, but to open up a bank account, get a job, etc. Would also need biometric visas for those here legally.

Kirk Parker said...

Luke Lea,

When you look up the dictionary definition of "cure that's worse than the disease", your suggestion here is one of the examples.

"[The beast] also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name." Rev. 13:16-17.

The last thing I want is the government to have that level of control over us.


Rusty said...

"Is there some way we can fix these problems at the source, i.e. help make "shithole" countries into something not quite so shitty?"

No.
Nothing short of regime change.
Free markets are organic.
Unfortunately so is servitude. Which seems to the default human condition.

Ambrose said...

It's just a bargaining chip for the DACA talks - nothing more

Tim at large said...

The whole rationale for not having a national ID completely escapes me. We hear reasons that sound more like the kinds of “Magic Eight Ball says!” type arguments that come from the “Collusion Theorists” on MSNBC. The privacy ship has long since sailed. There are companies buying the data from those license plate scanners and selling it to the highest bidders, for God’s sake.

Tim at large said...

I carry a border card that has an RFID chip in it. I don’t feel threatened by it. I wave it at a reader on the border, and generally I am back in the good old United States of America (I love that sign) in no time.

Big Mike said...

What I would like to know is how a 6 to 18 month program turned into 17 years. Sounds as though Dubya Bush screwed up. He’s starting to only look good by contrast with his immediate predecessor and immediate successor.

Big Mike said...

@Tim, the question is how to create an unhackable I’d card that can be issued to a newborn and cope with time (biometrics evolve, technical features like RFID chips and magnetic strips can fail, etc. ). You’d be surprised from how far away your RFID chip can be read and how easy it is to duplicate.

Big Mike said...

I’d == ID. Damn autocorrect!

Mac McConnell said...

I say we just give all illegals citizenship, unannounced till after we lay a brier patch of razor wire along our borders pulsing with 6000 volts. Votes for volts.

David said...

"I carry a border card that has an RFID chip in it. I don’t feel threatened by it. I wave it at a reader on the border, and generally I am back in the good old United States of America (I love that sign) in no time."

Sounds like your border card wave would work for whomever happened to possess it. Or is it a less stupid system than that?

Etienne said...

"won't we eventually become...a shithole?"

In Southwest OKC, there is a huge hispanic community. I have no clue what country they all came from, but very few speak English. Especially the women. They stay home and breed, or shop all day for the family.

The first thing they did was allow the city to exempt them from purchasing commercial signs in the business zones. With that out of the way, they all erected plywood signs and painted their facade with Easter-egg colors.

It looks like any shithole south of the border. It's like a disease or a gene they have.

steve uhr said...

Has there been problems with these immigrants? Of course they should be allowed to stay along with their American children. Unemployment appears to be under control so they aren't taking jobs from anyone who wants to work. Trump is just playing to his base. He doesn't gve a s**t whether they stay or go.

Etienne said...

The best thing that Trump could do, would be to end birthright citizenship.

Just because you were born here should not make you a citizen. It should require a blood parent who is a citizen.

The US and Canada are about the last holdouts on birthright citizenship.

I think it could be ended with an Executive Order.

n.n said...

It should require a blood parent who is a citizen.

I would say both mother and father in order to reduce ambiguity and conflicts.

steve uhr said...

So if we get rid of birthright which I believe is required by the constitution, won't that mean some people born here won't be citizens of any country? Drop them in the ocean?

The US and Canada are doing quite well. What country do you want to emulate?

Sheridan said...

Angela Merkel appears to have commoditized refugees so as to benefit Germany's social and financial standing (it can't have been simple posturing, can it?). So, Trump should quickly strike a deal whereby the U.S. extends tax credits and other enticements to German manufacturers to build in the U.S. in return for the Salvadorans, Guatamalans, Venezuelans, etc., etc. emigrating to Germany. The emigres will receive better benefits in Germany than they currently get in the U.S. and we get to put more Americans to work! Win, win! (s/c)

Etienne said...
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Krumhorn said...

It’ll never happen. Is there anyone who seriously believes that they will be shown the door?

- Krumhorn

Etienne said...
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Etienne said...

"What country do you want to emulate?"

UK, and Ireland.

steve uhr said...

etienne. One could persuasively argue that racists like you are turning this country into a shithole

So they use the democratic process to gain the right to use their private property as they see fit. You think the government should reduce property right? How does that fit with the rest of your political philosophy?

Etienne said...

n.n said...
It should require a blood parent who is a citizen.

I would say both mother and father in order to reduce ambiguity and conflicts.


Many military members have war brides. It takes awhile to get naturalized. Meanwhile they are squirting out kids. One would seem enough in an Imperialist country.

Etienne said...

steve uhr said..."...racists like you"

Playing the race card already? The sun hasn't even set yet...

steve uhr said...

Just calling balls and strikes.

What's with the French name? In America the name is Steve comrade.

n.n said...

Many military members have war brides. It takes awhile to get naturalized. Meanwhile they are squirting out kids

A compromise then. The child will be "naturalized", not "natural born", which reduces incentive and opportunity to game (corrupt) the system. The point to have both mother and father as citizens is to increase their stake in the child and community, but there is a rational and reasonable threshold to mitigate and compromise.

The Godfather said...

Stories like this ought to remind us how rare is this thing we have -- call it "civilization" or a "decent place to live" or just "not a shithole" -- it is NOT the default position of human life in the 21st Century. When we Americans travel abroad it tends to be either to those other countries with which we share these blessings (Europe and Canada) or to protected tourist enclaves in countries that are not so blessed. El Salvador (like much of Central America) is an example of the latter; tourists can spend time in protected environments, and just need to avert their eyes as the cab or bus takes them between the airport and the resort. The US may be the most powerful nation on Earth, but we are not so powerful that we can either remake the rest of the Earth in our image or embrace the "wretched refuse" of the rest of the world.

Etienne said...

steve uhr said...What's with the French name? In America the name is Steve comrade.

My parents were immigrants.

mockturtle said...

The US may be the most powerful nation on Earth, but we are not so powerful that we can either remake the rest of the Earth in our image or embrace the "wretched refuse" of the rest of the world.

As with immigrants from Africa to Europe. If all Africans move to Europe it will become Africa and no longer Europe. Where does one draw the line? Does a nation have a right to its own culture, or not? American has been a melting pot that has worked thus far because we are a large country with plenty of resources. But even America has its limits.

I live in a county in AZ that is 2/3 Hispanic. Spanish is spoken at least as much as English. It's almost impossible to get a job here unless you are 'bilingual', which means you'd better be fluent in Spanish and know a little English. I'm not complaining. The diverse culture appeals to me but I don't kid myself that unlimited immigration wouldn't forever change our culture.

steve uhr said...

Can never have enough immigrants from France. Love those funny hats.

Jim at said...

Good. Go back home, and then apply LEGALLY for citizenship. It's not hard.

Bears repeating.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Hundreds of millions of people are affected by drought, poverty or widespread gang violence, should we allow them all move here?

I didn't agree to this policy, did you?

Diogenes of Sinope said...

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!

Reagan

Kirk Parker said...

mock,

Edited to add the additional very important feature you left out:

"American has been a melting pot that has worked thus far because we are a large country with plenty of resources and, formerly, a very strong assimilationist ethic. But even America has its limits."

mockturtle said...

mock,

Edited to add the additional very important feature you left out:

"American has been a melting pot that has worked thus far because we are a large country with plenty of resources and, formerly, a very strong assimilationist ethic. But even America has its limits."


True. But when the immigrants become the majority, who is doing the assimilating?

Kirk Parker said...

Yes of course, that only works when the newcomers are a small percentage of the population.

Otherwise we have is best described by that wonderful/dreadful neologism, an immivasion.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Keep the Salvadorans. Keep the Muzzies out. It isn't Hispanics that are a threat to Western Civ.

Kevin said...

since a pair of devastating earthquakes struck their country in 2001....

Wait, what?

They announced the end of the program for the 2010 Haiti earthquake last year. Most Haitians have been working through the immigration process for years and will likely get to stay. The rest who didn't bother? I have no problem with them leaving.

I guess someone finally got to Sessions with this El Salvador thing. "By the way, Jeff..."

BUMBLE BEE said...

Bridge cards, health care, special ed...
Is it America's intent to become the world's welfare office. Who is gonna pay for this world welfare office scheme? Did you get to vote on this, chain migration or immigration lottery?
Your children... what did they do to deserve this abuse?

Unknown said...

"since a pair of devastating earthquakes struck their country in 2001..."

Why does Gaia hate these poor people so much?

-sw

mockturtle said...

These Salvadorans were not refugees. They were already in the country--mostly illegally--when the earthquake struck and were allowed to stay temporarily because of the conditions at home.

While it may be impractical to kick them out, the situation exemplifies the brokenness of the present system.

prairie wind said...

If only we had some kind of, oh, I dunno...let's call it a Congress to figure out how to deal with immigration.