Althouse: "We're running out of time... I'm going to urge the Pentagon not to send any more dependents to South Korea."

December 3, 2017

"We're running out of time... I'm going to urge the Pentagon not to send any more dependents to South Korea."

"South Korea should be an unaccompanied tour. It's crazy to send spouses and children to South Korea, given the provocation of North Korea. So I want them to stop sending dependents. And I think it's now time to start moving American dependents out of South Korea... I think the president has inherent authority as commander-in-chief, has the ability to strike North Korea to protect the American homeland.... He's got the best national security team of anybody I've seen since I've been in Washington. The president, himself, early on, made the right decision. I'm not going to allow North Korea to hit America with a nuclear weapon. We're not going to live under that threat. If I have to go to war, and I don't want to, to stop it, I will. Everybody before President Trump screwed it up, including Republicans. Now we need to get it right. And I think he's got the right approach. He's got the right team. I hope China will help us. We're running out of time."

Said Lindsey Graham (on "Face the Nation" today).

84 comments:

Michael K said...: The First Lady of the Senate" finally gets something right.; 12/3/17, 6:28 PM
rcocean said...: I see one our wannabee President's is spouting off again, about Foreign Policy. Where was our other "acting" President - Johnnie McCain? Wasn't it turn to be on a Sunday talk show?; 12/3/17, 6:28 PM
rcocean said...: BTW, Trump's authority to move dependents out of Korea can only be done after a US District Court Judge has approved.; 12/3/17, 6:30 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Awfully scary.

I've lived all my life under the treat of nuclear weapons that could hit the United States. Suddenly, we're going to bomb one country, because that one country can't threaten us?; 12/3/17, 6:31 PM
rcocean said...: This is Lindsey Graham! He and McCain are always getting excited. Remember "We are all Georgians Now" and "This is the greatest foreign policy crisis since WW 2"?

Maybe this Sabre rattling will get us somewhere. But I doubt the North Korean's care what Lindsey Graham thinks.; 12/3/17, 6:35 PM
Jaq said...: Maybe he wants to be the bad cop for once.; 12/3/17, 6:39 PM
Wince said...: Lindsey Graham: "I think the president has inherent authority as commander-in-chief, has the ability to strike North Korea to protect the American homeland."

Frank Pentangeli: "Jesus Christ, now look. Let's get 'em all. Let's hit 'em all, now, while we got the muscle."; 12/3/17, 6:42 PM
The Godfather said...: Wow!

Of course Graham doesn’t mean anything to the Norks, but having an “independent” Republican on the President’s side on an issue like this is helpful here in the US.; 12/3/17, 6:43 PM
David Begley said...: Trump has the courage and toughness to get this done.

There will be no nuke war. China will cut off the oil and food to North Korea. He can put enough pressure on China to make them do what we want.; 12/3/17, 6:45 PM
William said...: A good part of the world is ruled by self destructive madmen. I think in former times, the number was higher, but it only takes one......A long time ago I read a piece by Bertrand Russell. He said that weapons are used until they become obsolete. Nuclear weapons are, perhaps, the exception, but maybe we just have not reached the fullness of time. We may yet live to regret the invention of the A- bomb. Or maybe it will be people in Saudi Arabia or India or somewhere, but someone somewhere will regret the A-bomb.....It's something to worry about and more so than global warming.; 12/3/17, 6:52 PM
Michael K said...: Too bad our presidents never built the anti-missile system most Americans think we have.; 12/3/17, 6:55 PM
IgnatzEsq said...: Lindsey Graham never saw a war he didn't want to fight.; 12/3/17, 7:01 PM
MikeR said...: "Awfully scary.
I've lived all my life under the treat of nuclear weapons that could hit the United States. Suddenly, we're going to bomb one country, because that one country can't threaten us?"
Can't follow this. They do threaten us. They already have an ICBM that can maybe hit Seattle. Soon they'll be able to hit anywhere in the world. And they are crazy. Why should we let them get fully operational?
The world will end when one crazy person can end it. Let it not be now.; 12/3/17, 7:04 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "treat"

I mean threat.

Yikes.

It's like I'm Dr. Strangelove.; 12/3/17, 7:07 PM
YoungHegelian said...: Starting in the 80s the world watched as one communist regime after another fell of their own incompetence.

Now, there are three communist regimes -- Venezuela, kinda commie, a basket case, Cuba, an island doing nothing & going nowhere, & North Korea, a prison state run by a pseudo-Communist crime family dynasty.

Everyone along the way hoped that NK would fall, too. Afterwards, SK & the community of nations would assist in re-integrating NK into the world. Well, it didn't happen that way. It may very end in one of the ugliest wars since WWII in terms of casualties.

You think this Korean business is bad for us? We've got it easy compared to what this will do to the internal politics of China, no matter what happens. There's no ending here where China & Xi Jinping don't come out looking like assholes to the rest of the world. Even if China steps up & forces NK back from the brink, the question then gets asked "Why did China let these madmen rule NK for so long, even as the Kims pissed in China's face?" Just as the accumulated mistakes of American policy now fall on Trump, so will the accumulated mistakes of Chinese policy fall on Xi.; 12/3/17, 7:10 PM
etbass said...: For heaven's sake, I do hope our government is not planning a war with North Korea. It will not be a pushover; N. Korea has a very large military and there will be many American lives lost. It is unnecessary. The threat of Mutual Assured Destruction served us well with the USSR and it should do the same with N. Korea if everyone on both sides would please shut up and stop the threats and name calling.

Let them test their stuff; they are not suicidal as far as anyone knows.; 12/3/17, 7:12 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @etbass,

Let them test their stuff; they are not suicidal as far as anyone knows.

Suicidal, probably not. But, completely insane & totally unaware of what line they would cross that would trigger armaggedon, that they are.

If we let NK have nukes & threaten their neighbors, our allies, we have two choices-- respond to nuclear blackmail on our allies with nuclear threats of our own or sit back and watch as SK & Japan develop their own nukes, which they could do in months. The thought of Japan having nukes would so freak the Russians, Chinese, both Koreas that we might be staring at the makings of an even worse nuclear conflagration.; 12/3/17, 7:19 PM
Anonymous said...: @etbass The problem is we won't know for sure whether they are suicidal until it is too late. One might have made the same observation about Hitler. Turned out he was suicidal and look what that cost.; 12/3/17, 7:22 PM
Steven said...: If the North Korean leadership were the kind of crazy being postulated, why haven't they already nuked Tokyo or opened artillery fire on Seoul? Committing suicide while taking millions with them is an option they've had for a long, long time, and they've never taken it.

And moving American dependents out of Korea? Why not just take out an ad in all the major South Korean and Japanese newspapers announcing, "Hey, you know what? We're going to take military action that will provoke your deaths! And you thought we were your ally, suckers!" I'm sure the Japanese and SK governments would follow up by giving us the necessary permissions to go through their territory/airspace/waters to carry out whatever insanely stupid military option Graham is fantasizing about, rather than scramble their aircraft to force us to back down.

Seriously, the madman in this scenario isn't a member of the North Korean government.; 12/3/17, 7:34 PM
Narayanan said...: China learned from USSR ... North Korea = Cuba, but intel agencies are unwilling or been instructed not to source the hardware, lessons learned from Bushies' tenures.; 12/3/17, 7:35 PM
Big Mike said...: I've lived all my life under the [threat] of nuclear weapons that could hit the United States. Suddenly, we're going to bomb one country, because that one country can't threaten us?

Define “us,” Professor. The citizens of Guam are every bit as much citizens of the United States as you and I are. So, too, people who live in Honolulu, Anchorage, Portland, or Seattle. North Korea can certainly hit the Guam, probably hit the next two, and there’s a consensus that the last two are vulnerable as well. We are dealing with the effects of Clinton, Bush II, and especially Obama kicking the can down the road. Ain’t a whole lot of road left. I’m just glad it’s not Hillary Clinton dealing with this mess.; 12/3/17, 7:37 PM
Darkisland said...: Ann,

As someone pointed out they've been able to hit Seattle for a while.

Just this week they launched a new missile that can hit a large portion of the US including Chicago.

Related, Business Insider has a current article speculating That the recent collapse of the norks nuclear mountain /bunker was caused by a "rod from God" this is a5-6 ton inert tungsten rod. About the size of a telephone pole. Dropped from space, it hits at7000 mph. The impact is equal to a nuclear bomb but with almost no trace.

Did president Trump do that? I doubt we would admit it though Mattis apparently hinted that we might, a few weeks ago.

John Henry; 12/3/17, 7:39 PM
Steven said...: If we let NK have nukes
It is more than a decade too late to be talking about that. They've had them for more than ten years, and deliverable to SK and Japan for quite a good fraction of that time. If they were going to engage in nuclear blackmail of Japan and SK, why haven't they done it yet? If SK and Japan were going to deploy nukes in response to NK having nukes, why haven't they yet?; 12/3/17, 7:40 PM
Big Mike said...: And I might add that Graham is not the CinC. Someone else has that job.; 12/3/17, 7:40 PM
Darkisland said...: Let's remamber that the Korean war is still goig on. It was never ended, just an armistice

John Henry; 12/3/17, 7:42 PM
narciso said...: The miniaturized warheads have been known about for four years, but force projection like the Chinese checking us over taupiwan, hasnr been available till now.; 12/3/17, 7:43 PM
Bob Boyd said...: Some things we know:

Trump ran on re-negotiating trade deals with China to benefit America.

China doesn't want to do that, they like the status quo.

Korea is totally dependent on China for many fundamentals like energy and even food.

North Korea doesn't have the resources to develop nuclear weapons or delivery systems. They get these things from China.

American policy toward China, including trade policy has been driven by fear of conflict with China going back to the Nixon Administration at least. China has benefitted greatly from America's desire to keep them fat and happy.

Getting into a war with the US over Korea would be worse for China than renegotiating trade deals.

Trump is one of very few people in Washington who want to re-negotiate trade deals with China because the donor class doesn't want to re-negotiate trade deals with China.

Trump's time in Washington is limited to 8 years max and the clock is running.

Trump's time in Washing might be made even shorter if enough people are scared.; 12/3/17, 7:47 PM
holdfast said...: The thing is, if the Norks get operational, nuclear-tipped ICBMS, then we and they will be deterring each other. We'll have to treat them as near-peers, at least in that regard.

Other nations - Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia - will take note. They want respect too - and North Korea will have shown them the way. Then of course Taiwan, South Korea and Japan will follow suit - less scary but still destabilizing. The latter group will have to do so, because America's nuclear umbrella will be in question.; 12/3/17, 7:56 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/3/17, 7:57 PM
David Begley said...: Orwell wrote that in international,politics one must be prepared for infinite appeasement or at some point be ready to fight.

That point in time has come.; 12/3/17, 8:00 PM
mockturtle said...: Michael K writes: Too bad our presidents never built the anti-missile system most Americans think we have.

Reagan wasn't crazy, after all, with his SDI.; 12/3/17, 8:02 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Etbass, NK has a very large military, but what sort of physical shape are they in? I thought about that when that border guard escaped into South Korea. The border guards are among the elite troops - and yet South Korean doctors found he was quite malnourished, with a tapeworm well over a foot long. What about the average private - we know the civilians are eating grass there. I guess you can point to the Soviets in WWII, who were not terribly well fed either, as proof that an army suffering from malnutrition can still fight like hell.

at any rate, it is a frightening situation and I have no idea what the best course of action is. I'm terribly angry at previous administrations, both Dem and Republcian who let this situation spin out of control. I remember when The Norks sent up their first test rocket (when was that? 10 years ago or so?). The media treated it like a joke. ha,ha,that crazy little guy! yeah. Real funny.; 12/3/17, 8:05 PM
David Begley said...: John Henry

Thanks for the Rod from God story. Why doesn’t CNN speculate about that instead of Russia, Russia, Russia?; 12/3/17, 8:10 PM
Michael K said...: The technology wasn't ready when Reagan faked Gorbachev out of his jockstrap with SDI.

There is no excuse for the Bush boys plus Clinton, who sent our technology to China for money, to have ignored the need for such a system.

Obama, as was his leftist philosophy, did not pursue it as he believed that the US was the bad guy internationally,

We are now defenseless. Massive retaliation will kill 30 million South Koreans.

The question is, if SK starts to evacuate Seoul, what will NK do ? China seems to have failed us. A real trade war with China will kill their economy.

Now What ?; 12/3/17, 8:13 PM
pacwest said...: There is more to this equation than just the US, China, Japan, SK, and Russia. The balance of power throughout SE Asia would be upset if NK can use nukes as a threat. Add to this the likelihood of nuclear proliferation if NK is not checked now. What kind of world do we want to live in? One with unstable actors can threaten others with nukes? How are Iran's ambitions affected if we stop NK? Does MAD work when 100 different actors are holding nuclear weapons?

There are many moving parts here, not just the US and NK. To think that in the long term allowing NK to posses nukes effects only the immediate area is naive.

And I am not dismissing the concerns voiced here about the the countries in the cross hairs. War in the Korean peninsula could take millions of lives. What right does the US have to put Japan and SK at risk without their specific approval of our policies towards NK?

My personal opinion is that we have a binary choice here. Follow through with our threats (which allows for the possibility of a terrible outcome if NK doesn't back down), or back down ourselves (which leaves the only slightly lesser possibility of an apocalyptic outcome). I think that relying on MAD with scores of actors is, well, mad.

Way above my paygrade!; 12/3/17, 8:21 PM
Lyle Smith said...: I think it is just jabberwocky.; 12/3/17, 8:25 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Possibly triggering WW3 with China, a war involving nukes on both sides, is not something the President should be allowed to do on his own.; 12/3/17, 8:33 PM
pacwest said...: "Possibly triggering WW3 with China,"

Not going to happen.

"President should be allowed to do on his own."

We should take a vote first? That'll work :(; 12/3/17, 8:38 PM
tshanks78 said...: This was the most serious thing said on a Sunday morning show in a very long time. It jumped out at me and I’m surprised that this is the only place on what seems like the entire internet that picked up on it. Nobody is talking about it. Nobody. The time of reckoning fast approaches.; 12/3/17, 8:41 PM
David Begley said...: The CINC is authorized by the Constitution to protect the country and lead the armed forces.; 12/3/17, 8:41 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Time to bring home all the dependents and time for Trump to stop taunting Kim Jung Un.; 12/3/17, 8:46 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “The CINC is authorized by the Constitution to protect the country and lead the armed forces.”

God help us.; 12/3/17, 8:54 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: I have a friend whose son is an army intelligence officer who has been back and forth to Korea a lot. The friend says it is coming, and it will be a conventional war featuring the ROK army and US technical assistance. The NORK army is poorly nourished and poorly equipped. NORK artillery will be taken out by counter-battery fire in short order after initial salvos. The war will probably be sparked by the NORKs' firing on a US, ROK or Japanese military asset at some point in the very near future.

China's stance is unclear, but they don't want a million refugees streaming across their border, which is what they are going to get if this comes off as predicted.

It is interesting that Graham is talking this way.; 12/3/17, 8:59 PM
David Begley said...: Hillary would NEVER use the Rod from God. Too phallic and with religious overtones to boot.; 12/3/17, 9:00 PM
David Begley said...: Graham has good sources in the military and gets classified briefings.; 12/3/17, 9:01 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: My friend says the war will start at a time of our choosing (see Gulf of Tonkin incident). In these circumstances, there is no reason for Trump to stop taunting Kim.; 12/3/17, 9:10 PM
miklos000rosza said...: I think there are a great many on the Left who cannot wait to have an antiwar focus to their anti-Trump emotions. Antifa, pink pussy hats and so on, are all dying (so to speak) for this.; 12/3/17, 9:17 PM
buwaya said...: The people fighting this war will be South Koreans.
And, mostly, dying in it.

On the other hand, those most threatened by NK are likewise the South Koreans. NK puts out a lot of propaganda vs the US, but thats by design. Their real enemies are South Koreans, it is they who NK has been trying to blackmail all this time. The anti US propaganda was in order to exploit Korean nationalism and also ethnic chauvinism vs the US (and Japan) in order to harm SK's alliances.

There has been decades of this stuff.

The real targets for NK nukes are South Korean cities, and the nukes will be payloads on short range ballistic missiles.; 12/3/17, 9:18 PM
Big Mike said...: @Inga, if you wanted someone else to be CinC your side should have put up someone else besides Hillary Clinton.; 12/3/17, 9:18 PM
pacwest said...: "God help us."

Not to worry Inga, I'm sure President Trump will be replacing Mattis with you once he hears about your stunning insights.; 12/3/17, 9:21 PM
buwaya said...: I'm not sure the US has "rods from God" but its certainly possible. This is not high tech, relatively, and the usual government launch program could have inserted a few - just a few probably - over the years among all the usual secret surveillance, comms, and other devices.

My doubt comes from the difficulty of testing them. They arent nuclear, but they would make a nuclear-class explosion thats not going to be missed anywhere in the world these days.; 12/3/17, 9:26 PM
traditionalguy said...: Point of difference is that MAD strategy only works if both Nations have a lot to lose. China, Russia and the USA do. North Korea does not. And the Norks obviously have been given weaponry by China or Russia. So we are truly exposed to a first strike by a proxy state with nothing to lose.

Sleep well.; 12/3/17, 9:33 PM
traditionalguy said...: As President Trump always relies on his motto WWJD for making the big decisions. That is:What Would Jackson Do. That was also HST's motto. Time for a Pottsdam Declaration.; 12/3/17, 9:44 PM
James K said...: And moving American dependents out of Korea? Why not just take out an ad in all the major South Korean and Japanese newspapers announcing, "Hey, you know what? We're going to take military action that will provoke your deaths!

I'd advise you never to play poker. How about looking at it this way. Leaving all of our dependents there would telegraph that we have no intention of military action. Evacuating them gives that threat some credibility. And you know what? Having a credible threat can make it less likely that you'll ever need to act on it. This is pretty basic stuff.; 12/3/17, 9:56 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Lots of people thought China would never come to the rescue of North Korea. In 1950. How'd that go?

I'd also remind everyone that the President can't go to war with another country without some form of Congressional authorization. This isn't some Third World police action. It's a major war. Like it or not, you can't start a major war without a vote. If you don't think a vote is necessary I'd like to know why.; 12/3/17, 9:58 PM
D. said...: eff the faggot of South Carolina!; 12/3/17, 10:02 PM
David Begley said...: James K

Trump used to own casinos. He knows poker.; 12/3/17, 10:06 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I'd also remind everyone that the President can't go to war with another country without some form of Congressional authorization. This isn't some Third World police action. It's a major war. Like it or not, you can't start a major war without a vote. If you don't think a vote is necessary I'd like to know why.”

And will Congress have the guts to authorize it this time, or will they just do like they did when Obama asked Congress for war powers. They waffled.; 12/3/17, 10:34 PM
wwww said...: North Korea has been my main political concern for a while now. It makes everything else very small in comparison.; 12/3/17, 10:45 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: So let's review the bids:

Since the Clinton administration, N Korea has been able to saber-rattle and get the US or S Korea or Japan to cough up some money. S Korea has become an Asian tiger and Japan has putt-putted along under the US defense umbrella. China has become a major trade partner with the US, and used its N Korean ally as an irritant to the US, S Korea, and Japan.

The Chinese have started to get rich, and the US, Japan and S Korea are rich. N Korea is poor, but militarized. They have started a nuke and now an ICBM program. The Chinese, who must have helped N Korea at some level, say they can't do much to control N Korea.

What should the US do? Pay up? Or act together with S Korea and Japan to end the threat from N Korea?
What should Japan do? Should it develop its own nukes? They could do it in months, particularly with US help. Would China welcome that?
What about S Korea? Should they develop nukes? They, too, could do it in months. Would China like that? Would Japan like that? Would N Korea like that?
What should China do? Should they go all-in for N Korea? Will they like a nuclear Japan and S Korea? Do they want to be embargoed by the US (I know, I know, a trade embargo is awful for the US, too). Do they want a million refugees coming across their border with N Korea?

The logic of the situation is that the US, S Korea and Japan act together to take out the threat from N Korea. They are going to do it. The US is going to pull dependents from S Korea. S Korea is going to embrace strong civil defense measures and go to Def Con 1 with its military.

China is going to ramp up diplomatic efforts to head off a shooting war to avoid a refugee influx, to preserve their trade relations, and to maximize their influence. The US-led allies will insist on a defenestration of the ruling clique in N Korea, to be replaced by a calmer group of Chinese allies. If the Kims prove uncooperative in their own liquidation, the Chinese will abandon them and perhaps join the invading S Koreans (See the Hitler-Stalin pact and Poland). The Chinese will play their hand shrewdly to maximize their influence.

Nighty-night.; 12/3/17, 10:49 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: Inga--Your image seems somewhat unstable--although always charming--tonight. It's like seeing an old friend in a new light.

But remember, you get famous faster if you always wear the same thing. Trump chose a blue suit and a long tie.

All the best,

Amadeus 48; 12/3/17, 11:20 PM
Trumpit said...: Linseed has his head in a bucket of flax. North Korea can't be attacked any longer, i.e., disarmed or decapitated without millions dying. We are stuck with having to live with North Korea as a nuclear weapons state.; 12/3/17, 11:50 PM
Etienne said...: I think the US should sink the Pueblo, and that act alone will scare the shit out of North Koreans who will evacuate the cities.

Then we can sail up the Taedong river with cruise ships and offload Moslems.; 12/4/17, 12:30 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: It is unlikely that NK is going to stop when the missile and warhead are fully developed and successfully tested. Very likely that they will then threaten with an actual weapon, not just a "it'll be ready in a couple of years" weapon.

The difference is that the Soviets and the Chinese could be trusted to act rationally, with logic similar to what we would use. The same can not be said about NK.

In addition, letting NK succeeding in this gives additional incentive to Iran.; 12/4/17, 3:25 AM
Jaq said...: I am not recommending war, but I think that a state of war already exists, since there was never a peace treaty, only a ceasefire.; 12/4/17, 4:44 AM
Jaq said...: "Hillary would NEVER use the Rod from God. Too phallic and with religious overtones to boot."

That's why I always say treaties against poison gas are sexist. Women prefer to use poison.; 12/4/17, 4:51 AM
Rusty said...: Ann Althouse said...
Awfully scary.

I've lived all my life under the treat of nuclear weapons that could hit the United States. Suddenly, we're going to bomb one country, because that one country can't threaten us?"

No. Because one country can threaten the balance of power in the area. Including blackmailing our allies.
Lil'Kim wants to be a player on the world stage. He wants to be able, through his threat of nuclear war, to dictate policies beneficial to him.
We also need to minimize his ambitions before he actually becomes a threat to our shores.; 12/4/17, 5:58 AM
AllenS said...: If NK nuked California, wouldn't that be somewhat helpful? Just imagine how many (50%?) of the dead would be there illegally. Plus, Cal was thinking about succeeding, so this occasion would be a good start for everyone else to say: see ya.; 12/4/17, 5:59 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: If Congress waffles out of WW3, let's hear it for waffles. IMO, they SHOULD waffle.

Guys, the 90s are over. It's the Cold War times again. Everything we do has a thinner margin for error. We no longer have conventional or nuclear superiority over our enemies. The people who act as if this is 1993 in regards to NK scare me. Things have changed, the NKs have nukes they can deliver and the PRC has a conventional and nuclear capability rivaling our own. Facts matter. Check them out before assuming this is an easy decision.; 12/4/17, 7:35 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: We blew it in 1993. Now it's time to choose between bad and worse. Living with Nork nukes and building missile defense is better than starting a land war with two nuclear powers.; 12/4/17, 7:38 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: A land war in Asia would probably lead to Russia doing something in Europe. We can't fight a two front war, unless we want to try nuking countries that can nuke us back.

Nukes are a thing. They change the rules.; 12/4/17, 8:05 AM
AllenS said...: Nukes certainly are a thing, but nothing beats the quick draw.; 12/4/17, 8:09 AM
Kyzer SoSay said...: "A land war in Asia would probably lead to Russia doing something in Europe. We can't fight a two front war, unless we want to try nuking countries that can nuke us back. "

WTH are you talking about? If Russia tries to do anything in Europe, aside from possibly invading the rest of Ukraine, the EU can certainly contain them. Despite the relative neglect, the armies of the EU are quite technologically advanced compared to the Russians, and the Russian Army has been in a state of disrepair for decades. They don't have enough new tanks and planes to fight anything more than a defensive war or a covert military action (like what's been going on in Eastern Ukraine).

Assuming that the EU doesn't chicken out of it's own defense (hard to imagine that happening), we could support them with the forces we have there already.

NATO members may be shirking on their treaty obligations in many ways, but they still got trained by the best and know how to fight.; 12/4/17, 8:17 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Germany isn't going to war with Russia on their own. Why do you think they would? They sell out eastern Europe to Russia every time it comes up. No Germany, no defense of Europe.; 12/4/17, 8:18 AM
Kyzer SoSay said...: "We no longer have conventional or nuclear superiority over our enemies."

Yes, we absolutely do. Nobody has planes that can touch the F-22, or even the F-15E or F-16C. Nobody has subs that can compete with the Virginia or Seawolf classes. Nobody has 11 supercarriers and 10 assault carriers. Nobody (except Israel and the UK) has tanks that are as combat-proven as the M1A2 Abrams. And nobody's armed forces have the training budget per capita that ours have.

And training is where the rubber really meets the road.; 12/4/17, 8:23 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Maybe they'd partition Poland and get Prussia back. More likely, Germany would go Willy Brandt and recognize the reality of the European situation.

Anyone who thinks Western Europe gives a damn about Eastern Europe hasn't read history. Only the US cares.; 12/4/17, 8:25 AM
Kyzer SoSay said...: So if Russia tries invading Germany, they won't fight back?

Where do you think Russia will actually attack, and why? There has to be a why, and it can't just be "cuz America was distracted". Think Russia want's Poland again? Think they wanna finish up eating Ukraine? Turkey? Norway? Kazakhstan? Where, and why?; 12/4/17, 8:25 AM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Russia won't invade Germany. They'll make a deal. Germany isn't going to fight for Poland or Eastern Europe.

Russia wants its empire back. Been following the Ukraine war?; 12/4/17, 8:31 AM
Anonymous said...: Korea should never have been an accompanied tour.

Don't get your panties in a wad, girls. Things will be alright.; 12/4/17, 8:42 AM
Kyzer SoSay said...: Russia doesn't have the chops for empire building anymore. They desire parts of the Ukraine due to the large population of ethnic Russians living there. Russia also has a border with China to defend, and a huge trove of unexploited resources in Siberia that they need to tap into before it gets taken from them. Stunts like putting Russian flags on the Arctic seabed are just that - stunts for public consumption.; 12/4/17, 8:43 AM
George M. Spencer said...: The bean counters at the Pentagon will be recommending war now rather than later, because war now will likely lead to millions of fewer casualties and will also reduce the odds of an accidental nuclear strike by North Korea caused by its inferior command-and-control systems.

Also, note that both Russia and China have moved large numbers of troops to their borders with North Korea.

Here'san article on the subject by a risk analyst at the London School of Economics.; 12/4/17, 8:54 AM
Charles said...: "I'd also remind everyone that the President can't go to war with another country without some form of Congressional authorization. This isn't some Third World police action. It's a major war. Like it or not, you can't start a major war without a vote. If you don't think a vote is necessary I'd like to know why."

No need for a vote. We are still at war with North Korea under the same authorization as in 1950. It never ended, just a cease fire. The president can do what he needs to do with out more consent.; 12/4/17, 9:59 AM
readering said...: Lindsay Graham called Trump a kook during the campaign. But Graham is a kook.; 12/4/17, 1:26 PM
Jim at said...: @Inga, if you wanted someone else to be CinC your side should have put up someone else besides Hillary Clinton.

Bullshit Inga voted for Jill Stein.

Let that sink in.; 12/4/17, 2:18 PM