Via TMZ.
(By "I’ll get libeled if I say it," she meant "I'll get sued for libel if I say it," and really, "libel" is the wrong word. It should be "slander" or "defamation.")
ADDED: Also at TMZ:
Our Weinstein sources say he knows he's "momentarily toxic" but thinks with a little time, writers and actors will seek him out again because of his track record. He believes -- and probably rightly so -- that TWC exists because of him. He believes he can go back and produce movies, or he can just as easily do it somewhere else."Momentarily toxic." What a phrase! But O.J. Simpson has been seen chatting up women in a Las Vegas bar, so maybe cleansing toxins is a thing that happens in America.
ALSO: I wonder what calculations went through Ms. Love's head as paused. She began with a long "Umm" (an umm that I hear as knowing and sarcastic, not as slow-thinking or hesitant). She makes a show of looking over at a companion or adviser (which I see as performance). It's meant to focus the listener's attention, as is the next line: "I’ll get libeled if I say it." We're really ready to hear it now. Then, very quick, conveying the sense of urgency, danger, and being let in on a secret, she says: "If Harvey Weinstein invites you to a private party in the Four Seasons, don’t go."
Now, what if Love had been sued for libel? First, why would Weinstein sue? He'd be opening the door to discovery about his modus operandi, which had been going on for over a decade at that point. The shit would have hit the fan 12 years before it did. And he would have lost the case for sure. Courtney's line doesn't state a fact about him. She's just advising actresses on what to do IF there's an invitation, and she doesn't say why the actress should not go. Plus, Harvey Weinstein was a public figure and would have had a high burden of proof.
So I wish Weinstein had sued Love because — and maybe at the time Love realized this at the time — the lawsuit would have advanced an important cause. Love has $100+ million and could afford great lawyers. And she'd have been a big feminist hero.
IN THE COMMENTS:Virgil Hilts said:
As a lawyer who dislikes almost all lawyers (the profession where the 98% who are bad apples make the other 2% look bad) I'm upset more lawyers are not being crucified in connection with this. If Weinstein enterprise was like a mafia whose goal was not so much to make $ as to allow HW to assault hundreds of women with impunity, then the attorneys here were the hit men. Its one thing to defend a client who screws up once or twice (say, like OJ!). It's another thing to become the legal oppression grease that makes a young-woman rape machine continue to run like a well-oiled machine over 20-30 years. Any attorneys who helped HW more than twice were complicit IMHO and shouldn't be getting a pass. But they have.
Posts
154 comments:
Wow! Althouse is our early bird.
At three in the morning when you're in bed
The Hostess bakers are baking bread
We don't thank you enough. Thank you!
Maybe Courtney meant she would get libeled and slandered by all the sycophant writers and journalists who act as Weisnstein/Hollywood guard dogs, protecting the Hollywood golden goose. Journos get perks--expensive trips and bling bags and even get to "meet" some starlets themselves. Or the better looking hookers that hang around big events. I remember seeing stories about her be still being a druggie and/or nuts, even after she cleaned up her act.
Weinstein rehabilitated? Why would we think otherwise? He'll buy sufficient indulgences and he's good to go. Now, if he were a conservative. That's unreasonable.
It's weird what makes women very angry.
Love was banned from any TWC project after that comment.
I don't think that Hollywood realizes there has been a Sea Change. Hollywood learned nothing from the election of Trump.
If HRC were President, then I think Weinstein could come back, easily. (Of course, I don't think he would have been exposed! It would still be nudge nudge wink wink Harvey Weinstein).
I posted this Courtney Love video in yesterday's "Saturday in the Alumni Park" cafe with the comment "They knew."
If Courtney Love knew 12 years ago, everyone associated with Weinstein knew. Every actor, director, producer, editor, key grip, as well as those in politics, journalism, television.
Fuck them all. And their stupid "War an Women!" bullshit.
OJ has a huge head. I mean freaky huge.
So, mostly consensual. Weinstein is a victim of of religions that recognize indiviudal dignity and intrinsic value, and the Pro-Choice quasi-religion that is selective, unprincipled, and opportunistic.
Female chauvinists advised women to embrace their mental and physical feminine qualities in order to influence and exploit men, and gain secular advantage (e.g. abortion rites). The men (e.g. fathers, and others of moral character) were opposed to the progressive "Slut Walk", while the female chauvinists' counterparts (e.g. sexual predators, humanitarian pornographers, other deviants) were overjoyed with a new found female representation and accompanying perceived authority.
I feel sorry for the women, men, and babies, too, that have been victims of a pathological female chauvinism.
Just checked on Love in imdb because I remember her in "The People vs. Larry Flynt". She was nominated for awards and was starting an interesting career. That was in 1997. After 2005 she has about a decade with little work listed. Sure, I believe she was blackballed for that remark.
Anyway, it wasn't rape-rape. Move on.
As for the women who have experienced epiphanies about sex, life, morality, liberty, and positive progress, there is a conservation of principles.
Choice. Conception. And then what? It seems that another solution is forthcoming.
Darrell wrote, ". . . all the sycophant writers and journalists who act as Weisnstein/Hollywood guard dogs,...."
It's only going to get worse. It'a always been that way in Hollywood, as the studios/producers controlled access to the stars. Piss off Harvey, no interviews for your magazine. But now that the typical "journalist" on the national scene is 27 and makes just enough to share a tiny apartment with three others, they are going to be very susceptible to the same pressures.
If you've never heard of Perez Hilton, well, good for you. He's a bitchy gay gossip blogger. But he never really wrote anything bad about Paris Hilton. Why? Because she paid him not to.
That's why this isn't about a private transaction. Weinstein's corruption impacted everyone in Hollywood, and even business deals which might be perfectly honest look suspicious, especially in an industry with such high unemployment.
I am copying a comment I made on October 5:
Harvey will be back in fighting form for the 2018 election cycle. He'll lead a candlelight vigil for victims of sexual harassment in Hollywood to be attended by former perpetrators at $100,000 per candle. Ashley Judd will speak movingly about Harvey's contrition and genuine reform, and there will be a simultaneous announcement that Ashley has been cast as Mary the Mother of Jesus in a remake of the Greatest Story Ever Told with Leo DiCaprio as Jesus, Ryan Gosling as John the Baptist, Margot Robbie as Salome, Miley Cyrus as Mary Magdalene, Clint Eastwood as Pontius Pilate and Chuck Norris as Judas.
Courtney Love is some odd kind of Oracle. She knows all.
There are always second acts in American lives. And third acts, fourth acts, etc.
Our Weinstein sources say he knows he's "momentarily toxic" but thinks with a little time, writers and actors will seek him out again because of his track record.
Worked for Bill.
Hillary never gets such a break. It's part and parcel why she's so bitter.
Nope. One more or less groped and degraded girl is not going to alter Weinstein’s fate. He’s finished! Washed up! Kaput! Verklempt! Fertig! Verfallen! Verlumpt! Verblunget! Verkackt!
– Krumhorn
Hillary: asked about both her e-mail and Bill's sexual exploits.
Bill: beloved the world over.
Mob anger is fickle.
"Courtney, this is Harvey..."
"Hi, Harvey."
"You know, I'm troubled about what you said about me. It sounds like you're implying that I am a rapist or something..."
"That IS what I was implying, Harvey."
"I'm afraid I might have to have my people look into this..."
"Your 'people', Harvey?"
"Yeah. You know: lawyers. I have very good lawyers. They can make people's lives miserable."
"Sure. Sounds like I'll have to get MY people involved."
"Your people? Ha! I'm sure my lawyers are better than your lawyers..."
"I'm not talking lawyers, Harvey."
"Then what ARE you talking about, Courtney...?"
"My people. The ones who blew my husband's head off with a shot gun."
"What?!"
"Kurt? Had my people kill him. My bass player Kristen? Had my people kill her. There are others. My people get shit done, Harvey."
"Uh...maybe we just pretend this never happened, okay...?
"Sure, Harvey. I'm good at pretending things never happened..."
I am Laslo.
Let's be honest about Harvey's future. They need him working to pay off the massive legal settlements.
Given a choice between (a) not working and not paying out claims, or (b) working under close supervision and paying massive settlements personally and through his company, the people running the world are going to pick (b).
(b) is how THEY get paid. And your disgust and their double-talk isn't going to stand between them and the redistribution of wealth they feel is required.
"Just checked on Love in imdb because I remember her in "The People vs. Larry Flynt". She was nominated for awards and was starting an interesting career. That was in 1997. After 2005 she has about a decade with little work listed. Sure, I believe she was blackballed for that remark."
Exactly. She was excellent in "The People..."
Based on the press she's gotten over the years, I'd come to think of her as somebody with a lot of personal problems. I'd like to know the real truth. I would love to admire her. I think she was brilliant when Kurt Cobain died, a genius at public grief and suicide prevention.
From Zerohedge:
Excerpts from former Miramax screenwriter Scott Rosenberg's Facebook post, whose mentor was Weinstein throughout the 1990's and early 2000's:
So, yeah, I was there.
And let me tell you one thing.
Let’s be perfectly clear about one thing:
Everybody-fucking-knew.
Not that he was raping.
No, that we never heard.
But we were aware of a certain pattern of overly-aggressive behavior that was rather dreadful.
We knew about the man’s hunger; his fervor; his appetite.
There was nothing secret about this voracious rapacity; like a gluttonous ogre out of the Brothers Grimm.
All couched in vague promises of potential movie roles.
......
So, yeah, I am sorry.
Sorry and ashamed.
Because, in the end, I was complicit.
I didn’t say shit.
I didn’t do shit.
Harvey was nothing but wonderful to me.
So I reaped the rewards and I kept my mouth shut.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-17/former-miramax-screenwriter-posts-harvey-weinstein-mea-culpa-everybody-fuking-knew
Varium et mutabile semper femina.
Love kinda reminds me of Jose Canseco who admitted to using steroids in baseball, pointed the finger at everyone, was sanctimoniously denounced by everyone, but turned out to right.
"Momentarily" toxic is funny, except it's often true. I thought Slick Willie was finished after the revelation of cigar sex with Lewinski - boy was I wrong!
"Yeah. You know: lawyers. I have very good lawyers. They can make people's lives miserable.... Your people? Ha! I'm sure my lawyers are better than your lawyers..."
But notice that Weinstein did not sue Love. Did Weinstein sue any woman who was just talking about him? I know he got his lawyers going when women sued him, but I bet his lawyers told him he absolutely should not sue.
In a defamation lawsuit, truth is a defense. Think of the discovery she could do about his modus operandi, about which she knew.
And remember that she is very rich (because of Cobain). I think she's probably quite smart and obviously knowing. From Wikipedia:
"Love was born Courtney Michelle Harrison[a] on July 9, 1964 in San Francisco, California, the daughter of Linda Carroll (née Risi) and Hank Harrison, a publisher and road manager for the Grateful Dead.[3][4] Love's godfather is the founding Grateful Dead bassist Phil Lesh.[5][6] Her mother, who was adopted as a child, was later revealed to be the biological daughter of novelist Paula Fox.[7][8] Love's great-grandmother was screenwriter Elsie Fox.[9] Love is of Cuban, English, German, Irish, and Welsh descent.[10] Love spent her early years in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco until her parents' 1969 divorce, after which her father's custody was withdrawn when her mother alleged that he had fed LSD to her as a toddler,[11][12] which he denied.[13] Love's mother, who was studying to be a psychologist, had her in therapy by the age of two.[3] In 1970, her mother moved the family to the rural community of Marcola, Oregon, where they lived along the Mohawk River,[14] while her mother completed her degree at the University of Oregon."
And she has political credibility on the rape issue:
"In 1993, Love and husband Kurt Cobain performed an acoustic set together at the Rock Against Rape benefit in Los Angeles, which raised awareness and provided resources for victims of sexual abuse.... In 2009, Love performed a benefit concert for the RED Campaign at Carnegie Hall alongside Laurie Anderson, Rufus Wainwright, and Scarlett Johansson, with proceeds going to AIDS research. In May 2011, she attended Mariska Hargitay's Joyful Heart Foundation event for victims of child abuse, rape, and domestic violence, donating six of her husband Kurt Cobain's personal vinyl records for auction."
I wish her well.
"libel" is the wrong word. It should be "slander" or "defamation.
In some jurisdictions spoken defamatory statements on TV would be treated as libel and not slander, even though under the old common law slander was spoken and libel was written defamation. So, I don't think Courtney was wrong here.
Here's Courtney reading her letter to Kurt's fans, after his suicide.
Wiener was momentarily toxic until he went too far.
Hillary/Harvey 2020
As a lawyer who dislikes almost all lawyers (the profession where the 98% who are bad apples make the other 2% look bad) I'm upset more lawyers are not being crucified in connection with this. If Weinstein enterprise was like a mafia whose goal was not so much to make $ as to allow HW to assault hundreds of women with impunity, then the attorneys here were the hit men. Its one thing to defend a client who screws up once or twice (say, like OJ!). It's another thing to become the legal oppression grease that makes a young-woman rape machine continue to run like a well-oiled machine over 20-30 years. Any attorneys who helped HW more than twice were complicit IMHO and shouldn't be getting a pass. But they have.
"In some jurisdictions spoken defamatory statements on TV would be treated as libel and not slander, even though under the old common law slander was spoken and libel was written defamation. So, I don't think Courtney was wrong here."
I know. I chose to leave out that detail thinking I was already too pedantic. Maybe I was wrong.
I think California has a statute that uses the word "defamation" and avoids the old distinction.
I needed to correct the quote because I don't think she meant that she would be defamed but that she would be sued, and I knew if I corrected it, I'd get comments about how it was spoken and thus slander, not libel, but I did also know that the way I handled it opened the door to a comment like yours. I would still say Love chose the wrong word, even though there's a way to say it's not wrong. It was an improvised comment that someone picked up (and she knew it would be televised and recorded).
When Courtney Love credibly looks down on your morals, you know you've hit rock bottom. I don't know if it was that much of a challenge to have Courtney Love blacklisted. Getting Mia Scorvino blacklisted the year after she won an Academy Award, now that's a triumph......Harvey seems to have been into power games. I wonder if blacklisting didn't provide a more subtle, sublimated pleasure than bathrobing.
How many unfortunate potted plants were blacklisted by Harvey?
Democrats are always momentarily toxic. Their handlers in the hack press will rehabilitate as needed.
Imagine the SNL jokes about potted plants if Harvey were a Republican donor.
Poor OJ: Looking for the Real Killer in all the wrong places.
As noted earlier, Harvey should appear on Between Two Ferns to get his story out. That's a better venue for him than SNL.
Love never has to say she's sorry.
Mariska brought her husband onto last week's L&O SVU.
She was excellent in "The People..."
I use to show that film in a class I taught about US law, here in Norway. I've shown it at least 10 times and never tired of re-watching it. It's a very well made film and Courtney is excellent in her role, perhaps suspiciously so.
I took her comment as to mean she would be libeled in print, not that she would be sued for libel. But I'm just a reader, what do I know?
How do you know what she meant? Maybe she meant what she said, that people would spread lies about her if she told the truth. (Apparently they did more than that, she was reportedly fired by her agency for this comment.)
Love has $100+ million and could afford great lawyers. And she'd have been a big feminist hero.
You forgot the part about how feminists have sold out to the Democrats, and how connected HW was in that party, and how ruthlessly the press protects that party.
I have an idea to float. Is it crazy?
In Hollywood (and the Left generally and the Democrats in particular) there are People Who Are Entitled. They can get away with a lot as long as their victims are people who are not. Polanski raped a not, Bill Clinton harassed nots, Affleck grabbed nots, most of Weinstein's victims were nots. But some of his victims were A listers. Hence the venom towards him. He infringed upon Entitleds too.
Speaking of the smart women who got sidelined... I see that William mentioned Mira Sorvino. From Wikipedia:
"Sorvino excelled in high school, and was accepted into Harvard University. She studied for one year as an exchange student with CIEE in Beijing, China, where she became fluent in Mandarin Chinese. In 1989, she graduated from Harvard magna cum laude with a degree in East Asian Studies."
What did we lose and what crap did we get instead because Mira Sorvino did get to do more in the movie business?
I look at movies now and I think — about every pretty female face I see — what did she do to get there and who would have been there in her place if this were not made in a system with who knows how many Weinsteins? I think: This isn't a movie, this is a byproduct of a scheme to procure sex for horrible men.
Virgil Hilts said...
Any attorneys who helped HW more than twice were complicit IMHO and shouldn't be getting a pass. But they have.
I think the police call that "professional courtesy", which is a very fine euphemism.
"Here's Courtney reading her letter to Kurt's fans, after his suicide."
Take a look at the actual 'suicide' note:
Kurt Cobain suicide note.
The majority of the note does not talk of suicide -- it talks to his fans of being tired of the business and going away.
The inferred 'suicide' part is in only the last four lines -- take a look at the photo -- and it is in an entirely different handwriting, and AFTER his sign-off of "Peace, love, empathy. Kurt Cobain"
Doesn't pass the Angela Lansbury test.
I am Laslo.
And by "every pretty female face I see," I mean in a poster or an internet or TV advertisement, because I haven't gone to the movies since this story broke and I don't intend to.
I sat down last night intending to watch TV, looking at the list of movies in On Demand. I started to click on "La La Land" (which I haven't seen), and I couldn't force myself even to begin to watch it. My instinctive reaction was: ugh!
from the red carpet event for the Pamela Anderson Comedy Central Roast.
I saw that. It catalogued 5700 things you shouldn't say about women in your workplace.
I've come on a few years from my Hollywood Highs
The best of the last, the cleanest star they ever had
I'm stiff on my legend,
the films that I made
Forget that I'm fifty
cause you just got paid
Crack, baby, crack,
show me you're real
Smack, baby, smack, is that all that you feel
Suck, baby, suck,
give me your head
Before you start professing
that you're knocking me dead
You caught yourself a trick down
on Sunset and Vine
But since he pinned you baby
you're a porcupine
You sold me illusions for a sack full of checks
You've made a bad connection 'cause I just want your sex
If Love was blacklisted, did Harvey do it alone? Or did it take the complicity of other producers and other directors and other agents? One man can't blacklist. It takes a village.
this is a byproduct of a scheme to procure sex for horrible men.
Isn't that why Bill Clinton (and others) went into politics and college guys joined the protest of the week?
"Any attorneys who helped HW more than twice were complicit" Any attorneys who helped Bill and Hill more than twice were complicit.
The point about progs, West or East Coast, is that they like their complicity, they revel in it: culture is a power tool. The fact that they are now exposed does not mean they will change: politics ueber alles.
I think: This isn't a movie, this is a byproduct of a scheme to procure sex for horrible men.
I liked The Accountant (2016) with Ben Affleck, rewatched a couple nights ago. Anna Kendrick too, good in Mr. Right (2015), both enjoyed without a qualm.
Guys manage better in life than women.
I look at movies now and I think — about every pretty female face I see — what did she do to get there and who would have been there in her place if this were not made in a system with who knows how many Weinsteins? I think: This isn't a movie, this is a byproduct of a scheme to procure sex for horrible men.
I don't think that about all movies. But somehow we have decided that asking actresses to get naked and simulate sex is "empowering". And of course, if an actress is going to be naked, someone has to see her naked before she gets the role.
You are right that there are so many people who can act, so many people who want to act, it is a highly rewarding career both financially and fame-wise, so how are people chosen to make it so big? Why can an Emma Stone- who is cute but not special- move her family to LA when she's 14 to start getting roles, when so many others with looks and talent don't get anywhere?
Acting can be a soul-sucking experience. You audition and are turned down much more than you get what you want. It becomes a verbally abusive lover, wearing down your self-esteem until you are desperate.
I am like you. I am now looking sideways at anyone who has *made it big* and wondering what it took.
""Momentarily toxic?" It's more like, "Contaminated with long half-life radioisotopes."
In any case, it seems undeniable that some women find murderers irresistable. And in any case Simpson remains reasonably good-looking, at least as compared with other men in his age cohort.
Whereas a Weinstein without power has nothing at all to offer anyone.
What remains to be seen is, was Weinstein at least an "honest politician"? That is, did the women who put out for him at least get the implied quid-pro-quo? And, whether the answer is "never," "sometimes," or "always," wouldn't the first two answers raise some new questions?
"I am like you. I am now looking sideways at anyone who has *made it big* and wondering what it took."
Marie Dressler was once the biggest star in Hollywood.
I also have to assume that's why so many of the young actresses and stars break.
Brittney Spears, Amanda Bynes, Mischa Barton, Whitney Houston, Judy Garland-- what have they been put through to get where they are?
Speaking of HW's attorneys: How is Lisa Bloom able to bad mouth her former client like she's been doing since she resigned? Forget about her (allegedly) trying to buy off Harvey's victims. Isn't it a violation of legal ethics to take actions that are contrary to the interests of a client or former client -- particularly if your actions center on the issue you were engaged to address? I'm NOT saying that bad mouthing a former client is worse on some cosmic scale than trying to buy off victims. I'm saying the first appears to be a clear violation of legal ethics and the second can be colored as aggressive representation.
This "everybody knew" thing bothers me.
I'm often the last to know things, so I don't often know that much. People talk, and they worry together about bad guys, and maybe there is a collective knowledge.
But "everybody knew" is WAY too much.
It reminds me of every man is a rapist, every white guy is a racist, every woman is a whore. Everybody knew that guy was gonna kill that other guy.
Not everybody knew.
The Accountant had art in it. A Renoir, a Pollock, and dogs playing poker. Like going to a museum.
Blogger MayBee said...
Acting can be a soul-sucking experience. You audition and are turned down much more than you get what you want. It becomes a verbally abusive lover, wearing down your self-esteem until you are desperate.
I am like you. I am now looking sideways at anyone who has *made it big* and wondering what it took.
It wasn't just souls being sucked.
>This "everybody knew" thing bothers me.
Me too. At the risk of an implied Godwin, I remember a set of interviews with German civilians after World War II.
I noticed that half of them said everyone knew about the camps and anyone saying they didn't is a liar. The other half said nobody knew about the camps and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I think we have a tendency to assume that if me and my friends know something, everyone does.
I have no doubt whatsoever that a lot of people knew, in Hollywood. And probably anybody powerful knew. And if Courtney Love knew, probably every young actress who had been in Hollywood longer than a week knew, as did their boyfriends. Did the guy running the catering cart know? I give that person a pass.
I thought it very funny when Beavis and Butthead referred to Ms. Love as "Hole".
"And if Courtney Love knew, probably every young actress who had been in Hollywood longer than a week knew, "
In that case, why would she need to warn them?
Jennifer Lawrence during her Oscar week:
"I forgot to thank Harvey Weinstein, so that’s the end of my career, but it's been amazing, it's been fun," she told Extra. Luckily, the reporter gave Lawrence the opportunity to turn to the camera and give Weinstein a make-good. "Thank you, Harvey. I love you," Lawrence cooed. "You're still my little rascal!"
What was that all about?
2005 was the year the Weinstein brothers were fired/pushed out by Disney.
Assrat said, "I think we have a tendency to assume that if me and my friends know something, everyone does."
That's the force multiplier. I'm an idiot if I didn't know this, so I have to pretend to have known it all along.
You must be in the know. Must be woke. Otherwise you're a loser.
Speaking of HW's attorneys: How is Lisa Bloom able to bad mouth her former client like she's been doing since she resigned? Forget about her (allegedly) trying to buy off Harvey's victims. Isn't it a violation of legal ethics to take actions that are contrary to the interests of a client or former client -- particularly if your actions center on the issue you were engaged to address?
I was wondering this too! I can't remember ever hearing of a high profile case where the attorney dropped the client and then immediately started badmouthing him. As much as I don't want to defend Weinstein, this seems incredibly unethical.
"Bob Ellison said...
This "everybody knew" thing bothers me.
I'm often the last to know things, so I don't often know that much. People talk, and they worry together about bad guys, and maybe there is a collective knowledge.
But "everybody knew" is WAY too much.
It reminds me of every man is a rapist, every white guy is a racist, every woman is a whore. Everybody knew that guy was gonna kill that other guy.
Not everybody knew."
Comparing Weinstein's two decades of systemic sexual abuse of women to some uber feminist theory is retarded. Do you really not believe that the majority of stars, producers, agents, as well as those that covered them didn't know? Do you think Hillary, Obama, and other high ranking Democrats that Harvey palled around with didn't know?
Because if you do, you are a moron.
>What was that all about?
Lawrence was paid four million for Passengers, about twice what her costar got.
See what I mean how this sort of scandal makes everyone look bad?
And yeah, it makes it harder to enjoy movies. My only comfort is that I like older films. Not because I think that they were made by decent people, but because everyone involved is at least dead.
Courtney Love was also excellent on Empire. She wasn't on long but very very watchable.
Parallel Mafia - The Weinstein Company. Clinton, Inc.
It's another thing to become the legal oppression grease that makes a young-woman rape machine continue to run like a well-oiled machine over 20-30 years.
1- Right to counsel.
2- Did he always have the same representation? Perhaps it was like those guys who sealed off Chernobyl, each taking a turn for a few seconds in a hazmat suit.
3- For barristers grease is either an occupational hazard or you were that way to begin with.
"Ken B said...
"And if Courtney Love knew, probably every young actress who had been in Hollywood longer than a week knew, "
In that case, why would she need to warn them?"
The question was what advice she had for a "young girl moving to Hollywood." See the difference?
>You must be in the know. Must be woke. Otherwise you're a loser.
There's reason to lie both ways. Hopefully they cancel out.
"Guys manage better..."
I'm not sure that's the most apt comment in a thread about Courtney Love...
You forgot the part about how feminists have sold out to the Democrats...
Exactly.
Faux Hillarywood feminists will still line up to suck Bill Clinton's shriveled diseased peepee. In a heartbeat. Gratitude for keeping Planned Parenthood in the baby part selling biz and shaming those who expose it.
Not a big fan of Courteny Love - I think she has a very narrow acting range (i.e. playing a junkie, go figure), but I don't blame her for not paying attention during the defamation component of Torts Class - because she didn't go to law school and she's not a lawyer.
Now THIS is a power piece on the Weinstein saga.
http://deadline.com/2017/10/scott-rosenberg-harvey-weinstein-miramax-beautiful-girls-guilt-over-sexual-assault-allegations-1202189525/
Curious George, thank you for giving me the out that I might just be a moron.
You read a bit much into my commentary. I think my question is simpler than you think.
What does "some uber feminist theory" mean?
"Bob Ellison said...
That's the force multiplier. I'm an idiot if I didn't know this, so I have to pretend to have known it all along.
You must be in the know. Must be woke. Otherwise you're a loser."
You do realize that those in Hollywood are DENYING knowlege. So you are oh for two.
I admit, I will never be able to look at the potted plants at the Tribeca Grand the same way again.
OT:
A little something for Ritmo, after he crawls out of his cave tonight.
The Hill -
FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow
"Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin's atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.
Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.
They also obtained an eyewitness account - backed by documents - indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton's charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill. "
This gets tiring.
OK, so let's assume that there was some guy or gal in Hollywood who didn't know, and now honestly denies knowledge.
With me so far?
Love was dropped by CAA after she made that statement, so it seems that she was blackballed by her own agency.
But "everybody knew" is WAY too much.
To be fair, it seems pretty obvious that many people seemed to "know" in a general vague way that he was a serial womanizer. Many people clearly "knew" that he was a bit predatory, they heard stories, rumors, comments, and claims. Many probably "knew" enough to advise incoming actresses to be on their guard around him, perhaps.
But it's impossible to say how many people knew for a fact that there was rape going on or even sexual assault. I'm not trying to defend anything here, I'm just attempting to understand the situation as clearly as I can.
If you're a cog in a big machine, the movie industry, and you hear these stories and claims, but you're not a big player, what is the correct way to proceed? Perhaps the moral thing to do is to publicly talk about it, even if it means the end of your career. But what is the most effective course of action? Are you wrong for "knowing" a thing (in the sense that you don't have any actual proof, but you believe certain claims from people who you regard as credible) but you don't actually try to do anything in order to continue your career? That is the nature of corruption and the banality of evil.
Or else: assume that EVERY GODDAMN HUMAN IN CALIFORNIA knew.
With me still?
Isn't the whole purpose of his "Sex Addiction" therapy just that, to put a therapeutic paid to Harvey's 30 years of predation? Turns out he couldn't help himself, it was an addiction, maybe someone did it to him as a kid, blah, blah blah. Its a disability, we'd be in legal trouble if we didn't take him back now that's he in recovery. Relapses?? Sure he's had a few, but too few to mention.
There are certain fields of work -- modeling, acting and sports management, also journalism and academics to a lesser extent -- that attract many more people than can be supported. The mismatch allows managers to take advantage of eager young people. Either the pay stinks or the work is tedious or there is personal exploitation; not infrequently, there are all three.
Not much to be done about it except to warn the newbies, but almost every one of them thinks, I'm different and it won't happen to me. It never ends.
This doesn't happen so much in accounting.
Hey Bob Ellison, do you wonder why Love was never asked "why?".
I can't remember ever hearing of a high profile case where the attorney dropped the client and then immediately started badmouthing him. As much as I don't want to defend Weinstein, this seems incredibly unethical.
This is not a normal situation. HW is extremely toxic now and anyone previously associated with him is doing their best to distance themselves.
There are plenty of ethical attorneys, but they're not the type to work with HW. Lisa Bloom strikes me as being a very opportunist attorney. HW probably made her a sweet offer to help him out. The cost of sticking with him now is too high and the downside of stabbing him in the back very small.
We have yet to hear from females involved in the music business on the East coast when Bob and Harvey were in concert promotion. I doubt he waited for his first movie to start playing his games.
(By "I’ll get libeled if I say it," she meant "I'll get sued for libel if I say it," and really, "libel" is the wrong word. It should be "slander" or "defamation.")
So I think the consensus at this point is that Courtney Love both used the term correctly, and knew what she was talking about. Heck, I thought of her as Courtney-Love-the-nutjob myself until this surfaced. Time to rethink things.
You probably meant "rapists". Agreed that that's a problem.
I don't wonder about that potential interview question. What does it mean?
Wm. Empson writes somewhere of Britain having to entertain some foreign potentate who visited with his mistress. Somebody remarked "How horrible for the Foreign Office!"
Empson was wondering about the kind of person for whom it was thought to be horrible.
The modern version is the hot-button feminist.
I guess maybe it means the news gaggle failed to quiz Love about that. That's pretty normal for newspeople. They aren't usually that good at news.
Ann Althouse said...
And by "every pretty female face I see," I mean in a poster or an internet or TV advertisement, because I haven't gone to the movies since this story broke and I don't intend to.
I sat down last night intending to watch TV, looking at the list of movies in On Demand. I started to click on "La La Land" (which I haven't seen), and I couldn't force myself even to begin to watch it. My instinctive reaction was: ugh!
Wow! Glad I'm not the only one with such a strong reaction to the filth. I too wonder now who would have been there if not for Harvey, and how many other Harveys are out there.
I agree that not everybody knew.
My husband worked with The Weinstein Company. He worked with Bob more than Harvey. He worked with people who didn't like the Weinsteins, and he worked with people who liked to talk behind their backs. Like that they didn't pay their bills.
But we never heard it. My husband didn't work on the talent side, so that could be why we didn't hear it. But not everybody knew.
However....I have no problem believing many many people on the talent side knew, and many many people who worked for Harvey needed to warn each other to avoid him. I believe that because that's usually how it works when you work with a person who will come after you, one way or another.
I do think no follow-up on what Love said is very telling, though. Everyone either knew what she was talking about or didn't want to know.
Maybe, one of the accusers was a law grad and business sch student who was working as a receptionist(!). It wasn't clear what her career goals were from the article, but her prudence must be called into question because she was told she was his type.
First reaction in Hollywood when hearing about Harvey's abuse, from 1981-2017--do his checks still clear?
A few kind words for Harvey: He's not all that fat. I'd describe him as overweight. He's not even especially ugly. He's in the dull normal range. What makes him look fat and ugly are the women he exploits and abuses. Those are some of the most beautiful women in the world.......I think we're all complicit in Harvey's scandal. Some scandals are repulsive and you want to turn away. Corey Haim, Dennis Hastert, Cardinal Law. Who wants to hear more details? This scandal is prurient and you want to hear further salacious revelations......This is probably the best scandal of all time. Harvey is a fascinating character. He doesn't look like much but he apparently was some kind of dark and elemental force of nature. What makes Harvey wank? I don't think we'll ever truly fathom the dynamics of his personality and career, but its irresistible to speculate.
more and more a-list celebrities are coming out with their assault and harassment secrets.
So sorry they never had the courage up until now.
oddly - so far none of these a-listers are willing to name names.
The only way for the lefties and their lifelong republican allies now is to go the full "Keating 5"/"Lewinsky" route.
Find or setup one nominally labeled republican and then quadruple down on "everybody does it", its systemic and certainly no conclusion can be drawn about democrats/lefties/"lifelong republicans", and besides "Truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmpppppppp!!!!"
Harvey gave a lot of money to the Clintons. What did he expect in return ? I'm guessing it wasn't Free Universal Health Care or an End to Hunger, or Pace Laslo, having his asshole eaten by a presumptive future President.
What's truly satisfying and fulfilling about Harvey's scandal is that it implicates not just Harvey but all those media people who usually get to tell us what a scandal is, See for example the different coverage of Menendez and Christie. Another example: the female gymnasts were apparently subjected to widespread sexual abuse. I just heard of it, The Sandusky scandal wasn't hidden under a rug.......Harvey stained everyone he came in contact with, but many were more his accomplices than his victims.....Fuck every late nite comedian who made a fat joke about Christie and ignored Menendez and Weinstein.
I don't mean to diminish the great service Anthony Weiner did to humanity with his scandal. I think he was instrumental in the defeat of Hillary Clinton, and we should all be grateful for his perversions. Still, Harvey has performed a greater service to humanity. He's already chased Hillary off her book tour, and I don't think we'll be hearing many self righteous speeches at this year's Academy Awards. Harvey has produced a scandal that both in cast and dramatic effect has eclipsed Weiner's efforts. God works in strange ways his wonders to perform.
"I have no doubt whatsoever that a lot of people knew, in Hollywood. And probably anybody powerful knew. And if Courtney Love knew, probably every young actress who had been in Hollywood longer than a week knew, as did their boyfriends. Did the guy running the catering cart know? I give that person a pass."
I am quite sure that every young actress did NOT know at all, until invited up. I expect young actors are not nearly as plugged in as you might think. There are way too many unknown ones, until known.
"I do think no follow-up on what Love said is very telling, though. Everyone either knew what she was talking about or didn't want to know."
Many, many people in hollywood and certainly in the media knew. I have no doubt about that. But no one wants to rock the boat paying them millions, NO ONE does anywhere and everywhere.
Any attorneys who helped HW more than twice were complicit IMHO and shouldn't be getting a pass. But they have.
Totally agree. Now do we think Gloria Allred, a lawyer herself, is going to go down this path?
Particularly when her daughter, the lawyer who was until recently advising Harvey against these very claims, would be the first person they'd examine under such thinking?
Nah, you'd need the DOJ to get involved and likely create a RICO suit. Now that would be interesting, but then again how close do you think the federal attorneys in LA were to their legal brothers and sisters in the movie business?
Don't you think they'd be too compromised to prosecute?
You're looking at something akin to the FBI bringing in a whole new team to a city to prosecute the local mob because local law enforcement was on the payroll.
My only comfort is that I like older films. Not because I think that they were made by decent people, but because everyone involved is at least dead.
I do, too. I know what Mitzi Gaynor and Joan Crawford did to get those parts but they were good, too.
The great irony, which nobody seems to notice but me, is that the great "women's parts" and great women actresses were in the 40s when the oppression of women was at its worst, according to NOW and the "Movement."
For the past 50 years all we have had are the sex goddesses.
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) features young actor (narrator) and actress coming to Hollywood. There is hanky-panky and murder.
Quick history of another young actress in her first film narrated but actually showing her doing porn, a joke that was made out of the assumption as unspoken.
I can't do older films because I can't accept the acting conventions.
I believe that everybody knew. But I should qualify that. If someone was a person that doesn't really have friends or was someone that people don't gossip with, and there are people like that, then it was possible to live and work in Hollywood and not know.
But if you had a network of friends or if people gossiped with you, then you knew. And that describes almost everyone in Hollywood.
And what do I mean by knew? Well, in most cases, they had only heard stories. There's a lot of people in Hollywood. We may be only talking 7,000 women that had perverse personal experience of Harvey Weinstein with maybe an additional 500 that were close enough to what was happening to have actually seen firsthand part of what was going on. But beyond that there's a huge number of people that had heard stories.
And it's the nature of gossip that it's the more extreme stories that get widely repeated. So people had heard all sorts of bizarre stories about Weinstein and of course some of them weren't true. It's kind of hard to tell from a story whether it's true or not.
Now as to what people could have done to stop this. Well it seems obvious to me. I don't mean to say it's easy but you go to the police, and they get you to wear a wire, and then there would have been hard evidence. And that would have been a reasonable course because according to the gossip, this was happening all the time, almost every day.
Now there's another angle to this, that I think a number of people sense, but I don't think we are being honest about. And that is human sexuality. This is a powerful force for most men and women and I think many people lie to themselves about what they do and want sexually. And there's considerable variation in just how sexuality manifests in different people.
Some people are just wildly out of control, and Hollywood has been sort of a Mecca for these people. So it wasn't just Weinstein protecting Weinstein, there's a whole group of people behind him wanting to protect themselves.
I am remembering Casablanca. In it, that French Inspector controlled passes for travel to England and America. And he charged. And charged. And if the women had no money...there were ways. (Dare I cite Female Privilege? Poor men got to stay and die)
But that man was portrayed as a raff and a scoundrel. Corrupt but elegant. Honestly corrupt. It was a joke when he suggested to Rick that a specific stunning woman be made to lose badly the next night to pay for Rick's generosity today.
But there is that other aspect of the film. The young Belgian woman refers to her husband as 'a child' who doesn't understand the ways of the world, as she contemplates sleeping with Renault. The question of 'if' she did this was only predicated on his honesty as a deal maker, not any moral principle she was safe guarding.
So this later day outrage about Weinstein I find laughable.
Attorney-client privilege is virtually unpiercable, pardon the expression.
There were no women who slept around to get ahead where I worked. At least I'd suppose not.
>The great irony, which nobody seems to notice but me, is that the great "women's parts" and great women actresses were in the 40s when the oppression of women was at its worst, according to NOW and the "Movement."
Heck, it was even a recognized genre. Big budget, A films designed specifically to get women in the seats.
The modern chick flick is a low-budget critter indeed.
rhhardin said...
I can't do older films because I can't accept the acting conventions.
But can you stop repeating yourself?
There are basically two ways to "know" something- first hand experience and then everything else. I believe Love's knowledge was 1st hand. There are probably hundreds or thousands of others who knew 2nd hand from those with 1st hand experience.
Like Bob Ellison, I doubt "everybody knew", but I doubt almost no one who worked with him hadn't heard the rumors at the very least.
Maybe that's why STEM fields have no women. No opportunity for success.
Lisa Bloom has no use for ethics. Her book about St. Turdvon Skittles proved that.
Claims that somebody knew something also make the knowing relevant to something they're doing or did, in the convention of knowing claims.
It's not really about knowing.
If women who are more attractive went into math, perhaps there would be more women at the top of math fields.
They knew the way you know that there's fire at the bottom of a column of smoke.
The real opportunity for women would be increased by raising the levels of sexual harassment across business, not lowering it.
Feminism vindicated.
At the moment, women are depending on sabotaging men instead of promoting themselves sexually, for their advancement. This is a slow slog to the top. They've got to get rid of all the men better than themselves, instead of shooting to the top past them.
It would be useful to extend sexual offender maps to orgnanizational charts in businesses, so women will know which people to approach for advancement.
Weinstein Co did so well because it attracted the prettiest women.
There is a need for Apology firms to handle the public relations. I see a growth industry.
I can't do newer films because I can't accept the acting conventions.
The old films have a "I am now delivering a line" feel to each line. It's not wrong, just as stage conventions aren't wrong, but just genre.
The new ones are better (excepting bad acting). The ironies are funny instead of being stage ironies.
Acting is a craft because the stuff isn't shot in sequence, but to a green screen or something.
Wood Harrelson in Edge of Seventeen (2016), the outtakes, shows a hilarious skill in sudden serious.
I think it would be beyond old film actors.
What is Althouse doing about Picassos. The guy was a sex fiend.
What about the acting skills that the actors display.
A pre-feminist take on Picasso, out of print and overpriced used, but look in a university library, Karen L. Kleinfelder, "The artist, his model, her image, his gaze: Picasso's pursuit of the model"
Online but not much use with the illustrations missing from it.
More interesting than you'd think.
"...
This doesn't happen so much in accounting."
Ah, but that's because just how much fun accounting is is the best kept secret in the world. It's much better than being a rock star (or so I'm told).
There are plenty of ethical attorneys, but they're not the type to work with HW. Lisa Bloom strikes me as being a very opportunist attorney. HW probably made her a sweet offer to help him out. The cost of sticking with him now is too high and the downside of stabbing him in the back very small.
I don't know. Bloom has plenty of competitors. I'm sure many would be willing to file a complaint with the bar association over her apparent violation of ethical standards. It could cost her the ability to practice. It probably wouldn't, but it could.
Love has $100+ million and could afford great lawyers. And she'd have been a big feminist hero.
While no feminist hero, Mel Gibson had $400M from Passion of the Christ alone and his only two friends in Hollywood were Jodi Foster and Robert Downey, Jr. Any lawyer who stepped up for Courtney Love: (a)she'd have been their only client and (b)they never would have represented anyone else in Hollywood again.
Expand that "they" to other studio execs, agents, publicists, journalists, caterers, personal assistants.
Ms. Love would have been a "feminist hero" like the middle kid who tells the Social Worker that Dad beats Mom and Mom drinks is a "family hero".
.There are plenty of ethical attorneys, but they're not the type to work with HW.
So attorneys are more like lab rats than we realized?
Wood Harrelson in Edge of Seventeen (2016), the outtakes, shows a hilarious skill in sudden serious.
I think it would be beyond old film actors.
What task, other than being tall and blond, could Woody Harrelson perform in acting, that Humphrey Bogart could not? Is this just the Lee Strasberg Method Acting bullshit?
Excuse me, the Stanislavsky system.
Bloom has plenty of competitors. I'm sure many would be willing to file a complaint with the bar association over her apparent violation of ethical standards. It could cost her the ability to practice
I think these type of complaints are usually filed by the client and not by other attorneys without any involvement in the case. Can't see HW filing a complaint against Bloom.
In any event, Bloom is sharp enough to come up with a colorable defense. She already started by claiming that she wanted to help HW do the right thing by compensating his victims without them having to go though the turmoil of a trial. She could also claim that HW wasn't straight with her about helping his victims and that she wasn't aware of the scope and depravity of his actions.
Professor Althouse said:
"I look at movies now and I think — about every pretty female face I see — what did she do to get there and who would have been there in her place if this were not made in a system with who knows how many Weinsteins? I think: This isn't a movie, this is a byproduct of a scheme to procure sex for horrible men."
From what I've read, it ain't just pretty female faces. It's pretty male faces. Pretty young male faces. I wonder if we'll see that exposed or if we've found the pariah who will suffer for all of their sins?
What task, other than being tall and blond, could Woody Harrelson perform in acting, that Humphrey Bogart could not?
I watched Harrelson recently in the first season of True Detective and it was an acting revelation. Great acting today is so much more naturalistic than in Bogart's day, though in Bogart's defense, film dialogue then was far more expository, with actors bearing the burden of trying to fit all the screenwriter's words into something that would resemble human conversation.
I have been trying to remember the movie about a female boss harassing her male employee.
I finally found it and it is called "Disclosure."
Pretty good too but it has disappeared and never replicated.
Of course, it was written by Michael Crichton. We lost a lot from the culture when he died.
Of course, it was written by Michael Crichton. We lost a lot from the culture when he died.
Chrichton's climate-change skepticism lost him a lot of friends among the bien pensants.
The Proposal, Sandra Bullock is an asshole to everybody
I, personally, don't respect most of the 47 women who have come forward. They would have never done so unless be lost his power. They had no issue covering up for him otherwise.
We've already ascertained that you don't want Democrat mega-donor, Hollywood mogul, Harvey Weinstein as your garderner or groundskeeper or, sous-chef, for that matter.
Actress Angie Everhart comes out as the 47th victim of Harvey, and suggests you don't want him as your Italian boat captain, either:
Angie Everhart has shared an encounter with Harvey Weinstein in which the actress and model claims that the producer pleasured himself in front of her while they were staying on the same boat at the Venice Film Festival.
Everhart called in to the Frosty, Heidi and Frank morning show to share her story.
“I had just arrived and I was sleeping, I was in my bed,” she began. “I wake up and Harvey is standing above my bed. That alone is frightening.”
She continued, “All of the sudden he takes his pants down and starts doing his stuff. He’s blocking the door. I can’t get out and he — I don’t know how to say this on the radio, but he finishes on the carpet of the floor.”
late to the game here, but: rh hardin: the percentage of 1950s performances that rose above "actor's conventions" is probably around 5 percent, and the percentage of 2010s performances that rise above "actor's conventions" is also around 5 percent: when you go to see great paintings, my dear lady, please do not judge the paintings: the paintings do not judge you.
Ann Althouse at 8:44 AM: I know you don't expect compliments on specific things you say after 50,000 posts and many more comments, but what you said at 8:44 AM: well said. It is not just the Mira Sorvino movies we did not get to see, it is so many others, and in a country where Hollywood was one of the things we are known for - it is devastating.
rhhardin said...
The Proposal, Sandra Bullock is an asshole to everybody
10/17/17, 2:42 PM
Is that where you learned it?
Bix said...
It is not just the Mira Sorvino movies we did not get to see, it is so many others,
Mira Sorvino, like many others, was obviously wasted on Hollywood. Certainly as a person with gifts other than her considerable beauty.
Zita Johann was a Broadway actress who played the female lead in the original Mummy film in... 1932 or so. I can't remember.
She famously said she had more respect for the whores in Manhattan than any actor in Hollywood, except for Karloff.
It's only just occurred to me that she might not have been a raging asshole.
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