“It was extremely clear to me when I walked into the actresses profession (sic) that my humiliation and role as a lesser sexually harassed being was the norm and set in stone with the director and a staff of dozens who enabled it and encouraged it,” she wrote in a Facebook post. “When I turned the director down repeatedly, he sulked and punished me and created for his team an impressive net of illusion where I was framed as the difficult one. Because of my strength, my great team, and because I had nothing to loose (sic) having no ambitions in the acting world, I walked away from it and recovered in a years time.... the director was fully aware of this game and I am sure of that (sic) the film he made after was based on his experiences with me. Because I was the first one that stood up to him and didn’t let him get away with it.”The film von Trier made with Bjork was "Dancer in the Dark." The next one — which Bjork believes was based on Von Trier's experiences with her — was was "Dogville." I saw the harrowing "Dancer in the Dark," because I'd been led to believe it was a significant work of art. I avoided "Dogville" however. The description in Variety is enough to remind me why: "Nicole Kidman’s character was repeatedly raped after being accused of betraying the townspeople of a small American village."
October 16, 2017
"Lars von Trier Denies Bjork’s Sexual Harassment Allegations."
Variety reports.
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41 comments:
Yeah, but did Trier deny giving her a brief hug, in public, on camera and a peck on the cheek?
'cuz that what LLR Chuck's pals in the media think is "rape rape" now.
There's a naked person in my flat
With a weird expression on his face!
I wonder if all these stories coming out now will inspire society at large to rethink sexual morality. It is easy to say, oh throw them out or lock them up, but in a lot of these stories it is very likely there were no criminal actions. Maybe society will move to a less transactional view of sex. Will chasteness be seen as a virtue again?
Music and Lyrics (2007) Drew Barrymore is betrayed by a lover who later wrote a book about her as Sally Michaels (with Hugh Grant)
DB: The worst part is that he still has some kind of power over me. I still care what he thinks.
HG: I'm sorry, but how? How can that possibly be? The guy is a jerk.
DB: Well, that's easy for you to say, but--
HG: No. He is a jerk. He is a jerk. It's not a question. He is a jerk. No, he is, he's a jerk. He's a jerk. Okay, here's what I think. I think that the truth is that you are terrified of losing Sally Michaels... ...because you'd have nothing to hide behind and you'd have to stand on your own feet.
DB: Wow. I didn't see that coming.
HG: No. Well... ...I have amazing insight. I would use it on myself, only I don't have any problems.
No. Well... ...I have amazing insight. I would use it on myself, only I don't have any problems.
Aren't you mad that Hugh Grant stole your line?
"A significant work of art"? You mean, some pretentious twaddle, interspersed with sex and violence?
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the movie:
"Actress Björk, who is known primarily as a contemporary composer, had rarely acted before, and has described the process of making this film as so emotionally taxing that she would not appear in any film ever again."
I loved it when Bjork decked that female reporter with one punch, some years back. Great form.
"Maybe society will move to a less transactional view of sex. Will chasteness be seen as a virtue again?" Maybe, maybe not. Then again, maybe porn will come to be seen as the only honest genre left.
Bjork looks like she was born emotionally taxed. Would like to see the punching video.
I had to read up on Dogville before commenting... Jeebus H. Crisp, what a steaming pile!
ohMyGod,
<[ thank you althouse, may we compassionately examine brilliant Men and amazing WoMen in this ExpressElevatorUp that is our Time now. what is this Next Thing civilization might could aim for with the velocity and power that is in our Lives even right here? ]>
I never saw these films because I DID see his first installment "Breaking the Waves", a movie I can never unsee, brutal. (not unlike wanting to unsee Tarantino's gasoline and dance over the tied up man scene in whatever that beloved GodAwful machoMovie is called) -- for a moment I switched out from Emily Watson and thought perhaps the film I saw was one of those films you named, and thought "was it Bjork i saw? in those dopey choices she made to be slit all over in the end to death?! So I went to check. oof. I learn my nightmare was Breaking the Waves and I need never see the man's work again. Wikipedia says it is the first in Trier's Golden Heart Trilogy that ends with Dancer.
Compassion now, I am in prayer ever, for each and every one and each other.
So grateful for Bjork in our lives. May more of her genuine brilliance illuminate the whole.
""A significant work of art"? You mean, some pretentious twaddle, interspersed with sex and violence?"
Yeah, I don't do that anymore.
"I wonder if all these stories coming out now will inspire society at large to rethink sexual morality. It is easy to say, oh throw them out or lock them up, but in a lot of these stories it is very likely there were no criminal actions. Maybe society will move to a less transactional view of sex. Will chasteness be seen as a virtue again?"
I think something like that could happen but not by seeing chasteness as a virtue again. I think it could happen if people -- especially women -- become increasingly aware of the exploitation potential in sex and the importance of being aware of your own sexual preferences and seeing sex that is not preferred as rape or something like rape.
I wish more people would think much more clearly and often about what they actually like and want (in sexual and other situations). Too often people feel overwhelmed by what the other person wants or by something else that they want. You shouldn't give sex if you don't want it or receive sex if the other person doesn't want it. That's the only value that needs to catch on.
A man shouldn't want sex if the woman doesn't really want it (as a sexual experience that she likes), even if she's willing to give it. A decent man should feed outraged if a woman pretends to want sex because she's just trying to please him or get something for him. He should think: She's making me into a rapist. (I'm not saying that he should be charged with a crime in that situation, just that he should demand that women not do such a thing to him.)
Nicole Kidman’s character was repeatedly raped after being accused of betraying the townspeople of a small American village.
Has Von Trier even visited the US?
Althouse,
Human biology does not work that way.
Nature does not work that way.
And we make much to much about what any given person thinks.
We are much more a collective organism than an isolated brain.
We are all overthinking this.
Or rather, we are overfeeling this.
We imagine that we are many stages above being a herd of goats, but we aren't.
A man shouldn't want sex if the woman doesn't really want it (as a sexual experience that she likes), even if she's willing to give it. A decent man should feed outraged if a woman pretends to want sex because she's just trying to please him or get something for him. He should think: She's making me into a rapist. (I'm not saying that he should be charged with a crime in that situation, just that he should demand that women not do such a thing to him.)
This is a 100% sexist statement rooted in female privilege. If a married man with a wife and several kids only had sex when the wife actively "wanted" it, he would have to go elsewhere to satisfy his considerable and recurring needs. Also, once you get to working on a pity fuck (which is the situation you describe), the wife usually joins in, gets her groove on and has a nice phat climax. Why would you deny a tired haggered Mom such a pleasure? Women have to bleed once a month, men have to splooge at least once a day... the plumbing don't lie.
"Nicole Kidman’s character was repeatedly raped after being accused of betraying the townspeople of a small American village."
That was pretty standard in the USA until women's lib came around in the 1960s. Usually the gang rape occurred after the weekly negro lynching. Gays were usually safe though, since they hid in the nearest closet.
A man shouldn't want sex if the woman doesn't really want it (as a sexual experience that she likes), even if she's willing to give it.
You really don't understand men do you?
A decent man should feed outraged if a woman pretends to want sex because she's just trying to please him or get something for him. He should think: She's making me into a rapist.
Are you kidding me? Now you are saying that consensual, but non-enthusiastic sex is the same thing as rape? No wonder you won't deny that ridiculous 20% of college women will be raped statistic. Hell by your standards it's probably pretty close to 75%.
So women who have sex to please someone else are now victims of self imposed rape and their partners are rapists?
(I'm not saying that he should be charged with a crime in that situation,
Yet. And yet I bet well over 50% of college rape cases are exactly this.
just that he should demand that women not do such a thing to him.)
I guess it has to be stated explicitly for you. Most men don't care why women want to have sex, we only care if they want to have sex.
You shouldn't give sex if you don't want it or receive sex if the other person doesn't want it. That's the only value that needs to catch on.
So what is your solution for the millions of sexually frustrated husbands?
Bjork is the lady who yelled "Free Tibet!" while she was on stage in Communist China.
von Trier is the hack who makes bad movies on purpose.
I wasn't there, and I don't know anything.
But I am on her side.
"Nicole Kidman’s character was repeatedly raped after being accused of betraying the townspeople of a small American village."
They had been reading Margaret Atwood.
This story will not knock the Weinstein scandal off the front page, but Hollywood should keep trying. Didn't any of those Lehman Bros executives ever cheat on their wives? There must be another Republican somewhere who paid for his girlfriend's abortion. The important thing is to keep trying.
"So what is your solution for the millions of sexually frustrated husbands?"
Step 1. Join the French Foreign Legion (to escape alimony/child support)
Step 2. Hope they re-organize the BMC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordel_militaire_de_campagne
I think Corey Feldman, depending on who he names, could push Weinstein off the front page, but it wouldn't do Hollywood much good.
"Has Von Trier even visited the US?"
Ha ha ha! That's a good one, Bill. Of course not! Lack of knowledge never stops Europeans from telling the U.S.A. what a bad, bad country it is.
Hollywood isn't so much an octopus as a centipede. There are a hundred other shoes to drop. I can't imagine that there are others who are uglier than Harvey or who perved with better known actresses. Harvey stands a fair chance of having his name attached to the greatest. Hollywood scandal of all time. His fame will perhaps be more enduring than any of the stars he exploited. I wonder if he takes consolation in this fact.
I've heard Dr Laura (probably it was) only once for a short time but she was talking to some woman who said that sex wasn't a priority for her anymore, and Dr Laura asked if her marriage was still a priority for her.
The guy has to get rid of an obsession and ejaculation does it. There's some hormone flood that resets the brain and he's good for a while.
Probably some marriages still work on sainthood, but probably a lot don't.
We imagine that we are many stages above being a herd of goats, but we aren't.
Let me count the degrees of freedom.
"We imagine that we are many stages above being a herd of goats, but we aren't."
I wonder what the goats are imagining.
"This is a 100% sexist statement rooted in female privilege." What Howard said.
It's one of those things. You begin to think Althouse is one of the most rational women around, willing to see the other side, able to take things apart, showing occasional flashes of self-consciousness, fisking with the best of them, and then that statement, which I won't even repeat. Flabbergasting.
Human biology does not work that way.
'Human biology' doesn't dictate that we use a toilet but rather only that we defecate. Societal norms dictate where that function is appropriate. Inching toward a societal norm that requires one to be more thoughtful about the circumstances, emotional or otherwise, in which sexual behavior is undertaken would seem a step in a positive direction.
Let's be better than goats.
It's one of those things. You begin to think Althouse is one of the most rational women around, willing to see the other side, able to take things apart, showing occasional flashes of self-consciousness, fisking with the best of them, and then that statement, which I won't even repeat. Flabbergasting.
And it's not just her. The same type of things happen in real life all the time....women I respect and admire losing their shit over abortion and feelz. It's why i have reluctantly come to believe that we must repeal the 19th Amendment.
Ms. Althouse,
I never thought that you were a big booster for affirmative consent. How could you be as a lawyer?
But it seems 'woman' trumps 'lawyer'. Nice one sided contract you outline. Nice (very optional) work if you can get it.
Clark proposes men become steers. Knock yourself out, pal.
Producer Peter Aalbæk Jensen added, in a comment that may have lost something in translation, “As far as I remember, we were victims. That woman was stronger than both Lars von Trier and me and our company together.”
Hey..as an entertainer, does raising her profile help her now?
Just a thought..
So what is your solution for the millions of sexually frustrated husbands?
They are evidently shit out of luck. They are to continue providing the fruits of their labor, their fidelity, their protection, etc to their families, DUH!, but it's a bridge too damn far for them to expect to occasionally dine at the conjugal table. Pay attention!
Bless her, but sometimes Althouse is such a Stuff White People Like person. I mean, go meet some brown people, men and women, and get their general views on sex and what men and women owe each other, for a little perspective broadening. The sage advice 'fuck your man happy again' is likely to come up. Just sayin.
This prissy 'the only acceptable sex is when a woman initiates it out of pure unalloyed lust' business is so out of touch and airheaded. People who live in the real world, where men who are employed at stressful jobs and are responsible for wives and children sometimes just want a roll in the hay followed by a good night's sleep, know this is absurd.
Sensible wives want their husbands happy. Men are unhappy when they don't get laid. The fucking end. A good man will limit his sexual activity to his wife, but in return for the discipline and sacrifice he shows in staying faithful to her, she has a concurrent responsibility to show her own brand of discipline and sacrifice in taking his sexual needs seriously. This is marriage 101.
I have a cousin who, after she gave birth to twins, had forty excuses why she couldn't use any of the many birth control methods so just went with abstinence. Then it was a Super Big Shock and she was this Horribly Wronged Woman when her husband fell in love with another woman and left her after fifteen year or so. I was all, what the hell took so long, brother? What a monstrously selfish thing to do, to force your spouse into sexual starvation.
Howard, that is utter nonsense. I believe women have the very same responsibility. I'm not a proponent of affirmative consent by any stretch. Nor do I think my comment suggests that I am. I believe women are as responsible for the present moral malaise in our society as anyone else. I think often women regret their sexual behavior and we currently have a society that tells them 'hey...you regretted it...it's rape.' If she has only been more thoughtful about what she viewed as a regrettable situation prior to engaging in it, she wouldn't be in a position to falsely accuse someone of something and, in a just world, face serious consequences for having done so. See how it can work both ways? What exactly do you find objectionable about people in general being more thoughtful about sex?
All media seem to suggest we need a body-cam society...
Step 2. Hope they re-organize the BMC.
The French airlifted prostitutes into the Dien Bien Phu fortress, and the girls were there for the duration of the siege. They even provided Colonial girls for the Algerian and Senegalese soldiers. The command staff named the separate fortifications after the commandant's mistresses.
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