Althouse: "I grew up in Paris... By the time I was 15, I had been exposed to more flashers than I care to remember, a few 'frotteurs'..."

October 6, 2017

"I grew up in Paris... By the time I was 15, I had been exposed to more flashers than I care to remember, a few 'frotteurs'..."

"... and one man who followed me into my building to have a conversation about my sexual habits when I was about 8. When I was only dreaming about boys my age, I already was very familiar with the chilling effect of adults inserting themselves into my intimate life. This was how city kids grew up in the aftermath of sexual 'liberation': navigating these uncomfortable interactions, unaware we maybe were escaping something worse."

Writes Valentine Faure in "Can an 11-Year-Old Girl Consent to Sex?" (NYT) about a new case in France in which a 28-year-old man who enticed an 11-year-old girl into sexual intercourse cannot be charged with a crime but an "atteinte sexuelle," ("sexual infraction"), because — according to the prosecutors — there was none of the "violence, coercion, threat or surprise" required by French legal code to make the sex act a crime.

52 comments:

George Grady said...: That article seems incomplete with no mention of Hugh Hefner.; 10/6/17, 9:10 AM
robother said...: Ah the Fraansh. So much more sophisticated about sexual matters than the puritanical Americans. Just ask Roman Polanski.; 10/6/17, 9:13 AM
stlcdr said...: Society makes the bed you lie in. So to speak.; 10/6/17, 9:16 AM
tcrosse said...: I hope the discussion of When is a Rape Not Technically a Rape does not devolve into When is a Machine Gun Not Technically a Machine Gun.; 10/6/17, 9:17 AM
zipity said...: There those Europeans go again, being all morally and culturally "superior" to us.

*SNORT*; 10/6/17, 9:21 AM
Ralph L said...: I guess it's cheaper to visit Thailand.; 10/6/17, 9:23 AM
Gahrie said...: The French have always been a bit fucked up.; 10/6/17, 9:23 AM
Fernandinande said...: Some furrin guy didn't commit a crime but the fNYT thinks it should be a crime. Details at 11.; 10/6/17, 9:24 AM
tcrosse said...: I like the UCMJ wording: Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. No element of surprise required.; 10/6/17, 9:37 AM
mtrobertslaw said...: These kinds of situations are the cost or benefit (depending on your view) of progressive views of human sexuality.; 10/6/17, 9:43 AM
gerry said...: Ain't sexual license great? Has Whoopie Goldburg weighed in on this yet?; 10/6/17, 9:45 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Someone who read the article, could you summarize the tone for me? Is it "well, maybe we should think about whether the French are correct in this," or is is "zomg can you believe this shit?"

Also, sorry to be crude, but what was the ethnicity of people involved? When I lived in Saudi Arabia there were shops at the mall that sold child-sized sexy lingerie, out in the open like it wasn't no thing. O_o

Back here at home, I agree that we have to have cutoffs somewhere and I am fine with where they are (with the exception of the absurd federal laws that get teen sexters branded as sex offenders and pornographers for life), and I do not agree that an 11 year old girl is mature enough to enter into a sexual relationship with someone 2 1/2 times her age, BUT there is a very wide range in sexual maturity and sophistication. This is the result of dysfunction, certainly, and should never be normalized or accepted, but there are middle schoolers who know more about sex and are more jaded about it than many adults. It's pretty sad but it complicates these things.; 10/6/17, 9:47 AM
Fernandinande said...: The events..took place on April 24 in the Paris suburb of Montmagny.

"Paris suburb" is mostly euphemism for "Muslim slum".; 10/6/17, 9:49 AM
David said...: My daughter worked as a waitress in Paris in a small restaurant for 3 months when she was 19. She was propositioned on a almost daily basis by complete strangers. She learned to deflect these with ease but it certainly was annoying.; 10/6/17, 9:49 AM
Hari said...: Weiner is going to jail for sending texts to a 16 year old.; 10/6/17, 9:50 AM
Jaq said...: Hari, maybe you should get all the facts.; 10/6/17, 9:51 AM
Jake said...: How in the ever-loving-fuck can there be no evidence of coercion when a 28 year old convinces an 11 year old to have sexual intercourse? Fuck the French. I went to Paris and found that it sucked. This is further evidence the entire Country is a steaming pile of shit.; 10/6/17, 9:52 AM
Temujin said...: Harvey Weinstein may have a second act ahead of him. The French have a great movie industry, and no standards. What more could a highly trained Hollywood mogul require?; 10/6/17, 9:52 AM
robother said...: Or as Maurice Chevalier, ambassador for all things French in the 50s crooned, "Thank heaven for leetle girls..."; 10/6/17, 9:59 AM
Jaq said...: Why shouldn't a girl need pap smears before her first period? Prudes!; 10/6/17, 10:02 AM
Sebastian said...: Montmagny, Rotherham, what difference, at this point, does it make?

After sexual "liberation" anything goes, except when the powers that be decide to bring down the hammer, against temporarily disfavored people.

Sorry, Weiner: you embarrass the party, you pay the price. OK, Ted: close call, but we need you, as lion of the senate. Sure, Bill: all is forgiven, and oral sex isn't even sex. Hey, black jock: you abuse women, let us teach you about Title IX. Hey, Harvey: you --; 10/6/17, 10:05 AM
Sebastian said...: Polanski should have taken Geimer to Paris.; 10/6/17, 10:06 AM
The Godfather said...: "No coercion"? The 11 year old girl made a reasoned and voluntary decision to have sex with this guy? How do you say "bullshit!" in French?; 10/6/17, 10:10 AM
Rick said...: cannot be charged with a crime but an "atteinte sexuelle," ("sexual infraction"), because — according to the prosecutors — there was none of the "violence, coercion, threat or surprise" required by French legal code to make the sex act a crime.

The punishment is 5 years in prison so it's misleading to say it is not a crime. In common usage anything punishable by law is a crime.

crime :an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government; especially :a gross violation of law; 10/6/17, 10:21 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: Misplaced European, socialist, atheist values.

Afraid to stop Muslim immigration and the violence it portends for the country.

Not afraid to scope out little French girls.; 10/6/17, 10:21 AM
John Nowak said...: I'm not entirely on board with the "18 or prison" approach in the US, but this outcome seems a lot worse.; 10/6/17, 10:25 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: atteinte

Cognate with attainder?; 10/6/17, 10:33 AM
madAsHell said...: It's on the opinion page. Is this battle space prep for the return of Roman Polanski?; 10/6/17, 10:55 AM
Greg Hlatky said...: Harvey Weinstein may have a second act ahead of him. The French have a great movie industry, and no standards. What more could a highly trained Hollywood mogul require?

A bas les Juifs!; 10/6/17, 10:58 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Reminds me of a story from long ago. Two sisters, good friends of mine to this day, were in France. Older one was spending a year there in college. Younger one in high school. No brothers, so no experience with male anatomy. They were hitchhiking, older in in front, younger in the back. So, the guy who picked them up exposed himself. First sight the younger one had ever had of that part of a male's anatomy (not sure about the older one - I had tried a couple years before, to no avail). Erect, of course. She (the younger one in the back) apparently started screaming and hitting him. Which induced him to pull over and drop them off. Ungrateful Americans.; 10/6/17, 11:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Bruce Hayden: "...ungrateful Americans." Made me laugh, well told, sir.

Yes: here was this French native, generously offering some international culture and a chance to experience la vie authentique, and we get screaming and punching? OUT.; 10/6/17, 11:11 AM
n.n said...: The French are socially progressive.; 10/6/17, 11:12 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: And in Brazil, a mother brought her 4 year old daughter to an "artistic event" which involved a 45 year old nude man. The daughter was encouraged to touch and crawl around the nude man. The Brazilians seem to be even more advanced and "sophisticated" than the French when it comes to promoting the sexual exploitation of children:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/the_pornographic_war_against_brazils_kids.html

Jesus had something to say about those who corrupt and abuse children. And it wasn't "Co-exist."; 10/6/17, 11:19 AM
traditionalguy said...: That reminds me of the French exchange student we had one summer. She was 15 and from a wealthy family in Paris. But our 12 and 14 year old girls were quickly taught by her that sexual liberty for 15 year olds in Paris was considered normal and that we were the strange ones. And she also thought driving our cars 20 or 30 miles to get to places was strange. In Paris they just took the Metro.; 10/6/17, 11:28 AM
Ken B said...: Am I the only one dissatisfied with the report? The decision not to prosecute was made before any trial or ruling from the court. It was a discretionary decision. It's possible a functionary just reads the law that way, and we'd have had the same decision no matter who the man was. In light of the precedent though it seems unlikely. It's possible the decision was made for other reasons, and the one cited was a pretext. I can think of a reason; so can you. Why is the report so conspicuously silent on details of the man? It's a public trial isn't it, his identity isn't secret.; 10/6/17, 11:31 AM
Drago said...: The Godfather: ""No coercion"? The 11 year old girl made a reasoned and voluntary decision to have sex with this guy? How do you say "bullshit!" in French?"

Trick question!

The answer to all questions "French" are always in German!; 10/6/17, 11:40 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: O tempora, o mores!; 10/6/17, 11:58 AM
Yancey Ward said...: The details missing in the story are possibly important. It is interesting to me how the NYTimes seems to be a bit incurious.; 10/6/17, 12:11 PM
lonetown said...: Milo was right!; 10/6/17, 12:19 PM
Trumpit said...: "Fuck the French."
That's what he did.; 10/6/17, 12:27 PM
rcocean said...: I think the age of consent in France is 15, its 14 in Germany. The Parisians have always had a 'oolala' attitude toward sex. Prostitution and Brothels were legal until 1960.; 10/6/17, 12:28 PM
tcrosse said...: Hence the pun about the French girl who was 'eight' before she was seven.; 10/6/17, 12:54 PM
David said...: Below are official sexual crime statistics for Montmagny for 2016 (http://www.annuaire-mairie.fr/delinquance-crime-delit-montmagny.html) Total of 19 sex crimes. Area has population of about 16,000 people.

Violences sexuelles

Chiffres des Violences sexuelles à Montmagny et ses environs.

Crimes et Délits Nombres
Total 19
Viols sur des majeur(e)s 7
Viols sur des mineur(e)s 1
Harcèlements sexuels et autres agressions sexuelles contre des majeur(e)s 3
Harcèlements sexuels et autres agressions sexuelles contre des mineur(e)s 8
Menaces et chantages; 10/6/17, 12:59 PM
David said...: Harcelment is "sexual harassment."

Sounds like Montmagny is either a paradise of the law abiding or of the unreported and unprotected.; 10/6/17, 1:02 PM
John Nowak said...: >Sounds like Montmagny is either a paradise of the law abiding or of the unreported and unprotected.

It's a bit meaningless unless you can show the definitions of the crimes match pretty well.; 10/6/17, 1:11 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: Yancey Ward,

I'd wager that you have noticed what I did. When I hear of a 28-year-old man picking up an 11-year-old girl in a French "Cite" and having oral and vaginal sex with her, there is one thing I want to know. This doesn't sound like "dirty old man," like Harvey Weinstein or Roman Polanski. It sounds much more like Rotherham.

Having joined the Mark Steyn Club when it launched a few months back, I have the first issue of his newsletter, which includes a long account of a visit to Rotherham. He had heard accounts of cars circling the city center, one Pakistani driver in the car, and then, after a few circlings, the driver is there with a young white girl in the passenger seat. Many cars, many times. Steyn didn't quite believe this, until he saw it himself.

"White slags," they are called. No doubt there is something equivalent in French.; 10/6/17, 2:06 PM
Etienne said...: Frotteur is OK if you have a sign; 10/6/17, 6:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Ken B: No, you're not the only one. The Times article makes it sound as if everybody in France woke up one day, read about this girl in their morning newspaper, and realized for the first time that their country has no age of consent law.

I assume Rick is correct when he says an atteinte sexuelle is a little more serious than the Times makes it out to be. I also see in the article that there's a presumption that a young child can't consent (although young is not defined in years).

Perhaps the real news here is merely that an over-cautious prosecutor decided not to proceed with a very winnable case.; 10/6/17, 8:25 PM
RigelDog said...: I was surprised, and gratified, to see the article's reference to Foucalt and other luminaries support of Roman Polanski. These "intellectuals" pushed hard for the claim that a necessary part of restructuring (read, destroying) our society was the elimination of all sexual taboos, including those involving children. This article on the German's implementation of this warped progressivism is one of the most worthwhile I have ever read: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html; 10/7/17, 8:29 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: I think the age of consent in France is 15, its 14 in Germany. The Parisians have always had a 'oolala' attitude toward sex. Prostitution and Brothels were legal until 1960.

This is not correct, as any James Bond fan could tell you. While prostitution was not controlled by the 1946 law known popularly as "Le Loi Marthe Richard,"

https://flemingsbond.com/the-marthe-richard-law/

Brothels were definitely affected.; 10/7/17, 11:26 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: La loi. Shoot me.; 10/7/17, 11:27 AM
RAH said...: In order to propagate their own desires many liberals, homosexuals encourage sexuality with very young children 2-3 years old Read about Marion Zimmer Bradley and her husband who was homosexual that liked young men. What they did to their children, encouraging nudity among groups of adults with touching. It was a way to break down barriers to think this is OK.

During middle and and later ages girls could be married as young as needed to secure deals. They could be handfasted as early as 2 and married at 11 but often that was postponed until they had their first menses. The idea was not to damage their fertility by too early sex.
By 18 to 21 girls were considered too old for good marriages Probably because they were not as biddable as younger girls.

There was no age of consent since a daughter could not consent without her fathers permission. The lack of laws on consent could be a by product of this history

Plus Muslim and others think if they valued their daughters they did not allow them to out alone without a chaperone The idea if the family did not care then the girl is fair game.

Rotherham males took advantage of that since middle class girls do not get chaperoned at all.

In the 50 and 60's girls in the US could go to school but usually they were with other children so were safe. Girls were generally not allow to wander alone without a brother to watch over them.
I bet wealthy families still maintain the watchfulness over their daughters so they are not alone to be preyed upon.; 10/7/17, 1:27 PM