Those are clips from a much longer press conference, which you can read here: "Transcript: Pittsburgh Steelers offensive tackle Alejandro Villanueva met the media Monday to discuss what happened prior to Sunday's game in Chicago" (ESPN). Excerpt:
After the meeting ... based on my unique circumstances and based on the fact that I've served in the Army and pretty much that my life is lived through the military, I asked Ben [Roethlisberger] if there was a way to define the inside or where it is we were going to stay and if I could watch the national anthem from the tunnel, and he agreed....To the question,"What did you express to your teammates Saturday night about any potential feelings you had about not seeing the field?"
I would say that my personal thoughts about the situation is that regardless of this plan, very few players knew that I was going to the tunnel because I only asked the team leadership. And because of that I did not give them an opportunity to stand with me during the national anthem. That is the very embarrassing part of my end in what transpired, because when everybody sees an image of me standing by myself, everybody thinks that the team, the Steelers, are not behind me, and that's absolutely wrong.
It's quite the opposite. They all would have ... actually the entire team would have been out there with me, even the ones who wanted to take a knee would have been with me had they known these extreme circumstances that at Soldier Field, in the heat of the moment, when I've got soldiers, wounded veterans texting me that I have to be out there, I think everything would have been put aside, from every single one of my teammates, no doubt.
So because of that, I've made Coach Tomlin look bad, and that is my fault, and that is my fault only. I made my teammates look bad, and that is my fault, and my fault only. And I made the Steelers also look bad, and that is my fault, and my fault only. So unwillingly, I made a mistake. I talked to my teammates about the situation, hopefully they understand it. If they don't, I still have to live with it, because the nature of this debate is causing a lot of very heated reaction from fans from players, and it's undeserving to all of the players and coaches from this organization.
AV: There's a lot of levels, and there's a lot of reasons why people join the Army. But at the end of the day ... it happens all the time, people die for the flag. There's no way else to put it. When somebody's about to go on a mission, when somebody's loading up the Chinook, when somebody's ready to go, there's nothing else that's going to justify other than the men to the left and right dying for that mission. I wish I could stay home. I wish we could all play "Call of Duty" and not have to go to war. Some men, some women, sign up for this tough challenge, and they have to do it for the flag. When I see a flag of a mission on the shoulder of a soldier that reminds me that that guy's with me. It reminds me that I have to fight and lay my life down for him. Whether it's in my unit, whether it's Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, it doesn't matter. You're going to have a flag on your shoulder, I'm going to identify that, and we're fighting for each other. So that's what the flag means to me, that's what the flag means to a lot of veterans. Wounded warriors, they have no legs, they have shrapnel in their legs, they stand up and salute [during] the national anthem, it means a lot to them, it means a lot to me. So I think my teammates respected this thoroughly. It was just not communicated and the plan did not allow them the chance to get out and support me or maybe go back to the lab and sit five more hours before the game and figure out a plan. I thought we had to go to bed, work something in the middle. Unfortunately, I threw them under the bus unintentionally....
[E]very single time I see that picture of me standing by myself I feel embarrassed to a degree, because like I said, unintentionally I left my teammates behind. It wasn't me stepping forward. I never planned to boycott the plan that the Steelers came up with. I just thought that there would be some middle ground where I could stay in the tunnel, nobody would see me, and then afterward I just wouldn't talk to the media, like I do all the time. I'll avoid you guys, I'll shower, bring my clothes in, never address you guys and two weeks later you guys will be talking about something else....
Posts
495 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 495 of 495By the way: I don't think rhardin has pointed it out yet, but the US government--through the military I'm almost positive--pays several million dollars directly to sports leagues both for advertising and for goodwill. Most of that spending goes towards...promoting military recruitment. We also spend a bunch of money on things like flyovers, parachute demonstrations, and paying for color guards, etc.
Anyway if someone wanted to argue that the civic rituals under discussion are not wholly spontaneous but may in part be promoted--possibly for propagandistic purposes-by our government, the fact that we pay a nice chunk of change towards these leagues might be pretty good evidence. The other side could obviously say that since we're paying those sums the least the leagues can do is prevent their players from showing disrespect towards related civic rituals, of course.
Note: I'm not making that argument, just pointing out something the "other side" could truthfully say. I think it's useful to try and argue the other side of a given point, especially one you may have strong emotions about.
DirecTV is letting at least some customers cancel subscriptions to its Sunday Ticket package of NFL games and obtain refunds if they cite players’ national anthem protests as the reason, customer service representatives said Tuesday.
Sunday Ticket’s regular policy doesn’t allow refunds once the season is under way. But the representatives said they are making exceptions this season—which began in September—in response to the protests, in which players kneel or link arms during the national anthem.
And DirecTV steps out of the path of the charging bull. Probably because they are most concentrated in areas not reached by cable, the red counties outside the blue archipelago.
going out now I will fall behind for a couple hours
going out now I will fall behind for a couple hours
You go out?!?
The dog needs walking.
"And Pittsburgh/western Pennsylvania area has long been the most warrior like community outside of the American South. "
Two of my ancestors served in the Revolutionary Army and were from there, Harrisburg.
"Probably because they are most concentrated in areas not reached by cable, the red counties outside the blue archipelago."
Good point. I've never bought that NFL package since I'm not a big fan of pro football but it should be interesting to see what happens.
I don't think you've supported your argument here. I have no connection to the military, but I voluntarily display and revere the flag because I share the ideals it represents. No one is forcing me to: rather it's an act of freedom to display it and it's one of the few symbols I will display. I really find your distaste for it hard to understand, and I am trying to understand.
The military ideal is discipline. That's not the civilian ideal.
My distaste for civilian veneration is shown, for example, by Trump taking over the flag for his own purposes right now. He took your symbol and you didn't notice. Now it supports Trump, not the constitution.
(something weird is going on posting - the going out I posted two hours ago. Groceries, if anybody wants to know.)
"Certainly the draftees. They're called, they go. That's all it takes."
Nonsense. Cheap grace. They only go because otherwise Uncle Sam would break their kneecaps.
Guess you're not for medals either? The Japanese weren't. Like you - all soldiers are meritorious.
They're trained the same way as volunteers. Duty and discipline.
Medals are when somebody that likes you notices something writes you up; valor is actually all over. The awardees wear the medals for everybody.
The flag is a big enough thing to carry a lot of symbolic freight. BLM and "The Root" have tried to commandeer it as a symbol of White Supremacism, Trump has used it for his own ends, this single purpose analysis will never bear any analytical fruit. It's like your example of a 3-D representation of atmospheric currents. The 2-D version is far easier to solve, but the solution carries little meaning in the real world.
"The military ideal is discipline. That's not the civilian ideal."
The symbolic aspects of nationalism are not limited to discipline.
You have to go to the roots of this to understand.
Simon Schama's "Citizens" is not a bad place to start.
The civic nationalism ideal that began then (NOT during the American Revolution, though that was a model for some aspects) was nailed down by those French guys.
The ideal was not discipline, but sacrifice, and passion, and above all belief, and that was fine for civilians. It was a semi-or-pseudo religious movement. The model was picked up all over Europe. That's why you got stuff like this -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Leading_the_People
That's not discipline, that's not a system, that's a Goddess out of the Iliad.
And that's what its been ever since.
BLM = Baby Lives Matter... Seniors, adults, teenagers, male and female, too, throughout human evolution from conception.
It is critical to acknowledge BLM in a State where the Pro-Choice Church (i.e. selective, unprincipled, and opportunistic) has established itself at the twilight fringe.
Keep pushing it, leftists.
Keep it up.
The flag is a big enough thing to carry a lot of symbolic freight. BLM and "The Root" have tried to commandeer it as a symbol of White Supremacism, Trump has used it for his own ends, this single purpose analysis will never bear any analytical fruit. It's like your example of a 3-D representation of atmospheric currents. The 2-D version is far easier to solve, but the solution carries little meaning in the real world.
I think we're agreeing, except I want to account for the crowd reaction. They take a particular constellation of meanings and equations between them, that I'm taking as cheap grace in that reaction (take the military meaning and claim we the crowd with hands on heart deserve the same honor).
The danger of that is it's lost sight of what they think they take the flag to represent, and it's easily stolen from them as a result. Don't worship images.
In this case Trump steals the flag.
Americans don't do sacred objects.
Correction: The American Left doesn’t “do sacred objects,” except of course for their complete and total worship of Political Correctness.
The rest of us revere and honor objects like the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, our collective history, the flag and the anthem.
Trump … ought to be embracing the constitution not disparaging it, and leave the flag out of it.
Sure. And Trump should stop tweeting, right? And stop exposing the NFL for what it is, which is an elite, pampered organization given special dispensation by our lawmakers, populated by wealthy, pampered elites and run by wealthy dabblers in sport who possess no great love of country and certainly no surplus of patriotism.
It’s the NFL owners that should have left “the flag out of it.” But they didn’t and that put them on the downside of the Trump Curve. When the NFL owners chose to allow the Social Justice Warriors to use our flag and our anthem to add significance to their absurd, inept Progressive propaganda they made a costly mistake.
And what, exactly, does the flag and the anthem have to do with something created (if it exists) by a local municipality? If the goal was to highlight police brutality then Colon Kaperfuck should have knelt in front of every major American cities’ city halls but most have been run by Democrats for many generations so THAT wouldn’t have worked at all. It wouldn’t have played well on Morning Joe.
They're trained the same way as volunteers. Duty and discipline.
Bullshit, Mr. Rain-Man! (apologies to Jim Kelly)
Fear and obedience! Dress left or I'll have you shot! They're broken like horses so you can ride them.
Medals, you are incoherent as usual, but sounds like a no on medals.
And Trump should stop tweeting, right?
No, Trump's tweets are great. They throw sand in the MSM gearbox and PC in general, which is absolutely necessary.
It's just in this case he's shown leadership that's in the wrong direction.
He should have said BLM ought to be embracing the constitution rather than insulting it. No mention of the flag.
take the military meaning and claim we the crowd with hands on heart deserve the same honor
What fucking basis do you have for this? It's not even wrong.
Blogger rhhardin said...
Americans don't do sacred objects.
9/26/17, 1:56 PM
We do understand a "fuck you", however. And there is a great deal of "fuck you" in the current kneeling fad.
"Don't worship images."
Too late. That's the story of the 20th century. And much of the 19th.
Medals are good. Just don't get cocky when you win one. They show that stuff is honored.
As for training, you break them down and then build them back up.
"take the military meaning and claim we the crowd with hands on heart deserve the same honor"
What fucking basis do you have for this? It's not even wrong.
What else accounts so neatly for the anger of the crowd when somebody takes it away.
As for discipline -
Napoleon had to add this to all regimental flags when he assumed supreme command-
http://www.drapeaux.org/France/Drapeaux/Garde/Empire_1/Grenadier_Pied_1804_2_Bat.gif
"Valeur et Discipline"
- as the "discipline" part was rather iffy in the French Revolutionary armies.
Medals are good. Just don't get cocky when you win one. They show that stuff is honored.
Not in any sensible way according to you. Which may even be correct. Noted, rh says medals don't mean anything. Noted. They belong to somebody else.
As for training, you break them down and then build them back up.
But they don't want to be broken and built up. You're saying, "rape 'em enough and they'll get to like it." By rights the flag ought to give them PTSD. Unless you brainwashed them real good.
The American left is wholly invested in lexical and graven imagery, as were there predecessors in secular enterprises, including: Marxists, communists, socialists, fascists, KKK, and Nazis, too. If anything, the so-called "secular" factions have actually made more diverse and progressive investments in symbolic representations, including quasi-scientific models, with the intent to influence and manipulate for material profits.
>I get to analyze it. The best analysis wins.
I think we can say the worst analysis is being laughed at.
Medals are an acknowledgement. Proof that acknowledgement happens. It may not be obvious otherwise.
What else accounts so neatly for the anger of the crowd when somebody takes it away.
This has been explained to you about 400 times today.
Rh, what holds you to the world? Let alone the country? What do you care about? What can one hold an risk to get your attention?
Hold at risk
But they don't want to be broken and built up. You're saying, "rape 'em enough and they'll get to like it." By rights the flag ought to give them PTSD. Unless you brainwashed them real good.
It's a system you can grow to like pretty easily. You can be good at it.
It's been a while since I read Plato's Republic, but didn't it offer a comprehensive assessment of what is required to build and keep a Republic?
Ah, you're saying I'm a bad person. Granted.
"What else accounts so neatly for the anger of the crowd when somebody takes it away."
Religion, civic flavor. Violation of the sacred. The Greek capital crime of impiety.
Medals are an acknowledgement. Proof that acknowledgement happens. It may not be obvious otherwise.
This time in English? All the acknowledgement they need, I thought, was a free country. You despise the very form of acknowledgement at issue here. The anthem, the flag rituals, honor the NATION, and secondarily, those who protect and defend it. And according to you that's some kind of bullshit.
>Ah, you're saying I'm a bad person. Granted.
Spare us the "Poor Little Me."
You said some inane stuff, and you're being called on it. Deal.
It's a system you can grow to like pretty easily. You can be good at it.
Presumably you can grow to like a lot of unauthorized dick running through you, too. And the natural whores and sluts, and I guess anybody who's not absolutely frigid, can be good at it.
Ah, you're saying I'm a bad person. Granted.
Who, me? When did I say that?
anybody who's not absolutely frigid, can be good at it.
Certainly, if the alternative is to be whipped by your pimp or strangled by your john.
A free country is all they deserve. That's what duty and honor were about.
Valor can be acknowledged internally now and then; and the awardees are placeholders for others not written up.
Public honors, outside the military that is to say, are something of a mistake. It puts a large call on humility to work.
In this case Trump steals the flag.
BLM stole it first. This is all one big game of capture the flag. I just don't think there is as much anger at the disrespect for the flag as you think. It's kind of like the posturing that the golf ball video with Trump and Hillary was "violence towards women."
Additionally, if you don't sow the seeds of patriotism and its attendant symbolism in your population, I have no idea where you are going to get the soldiers you need when you need them, even if we only need them to respond to a natural disaster. Which is all part and parcel of this attack on football by the left. They are quite happy if we never have the soldiers we need, since they are pushing this delusional line that the Untied States is the source of all military aggression.
If the draftees deserve a free country (and no more), then everyone at home deserves the same. Same as the volunteers. In other words, nobody deserves anything.
And what if they lose?
A free country is not nothing.
"Valor can be acknowledged internally now and then; and the awardees are placeholders for others not written up."
This is a system for an army of professional mercenaries.
And there have been and are such even today, where all their (sometimes bizarre) rituals, honors and values exist within the unit; and are even distinct from the remainder of the military as it is a more public institution.
Its why the French Foreign Legion has its own sacred relics like Capitaine Danjou's hand -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Danjou#/media/File:Main_Danjou.gif
If you get to the chapel at West Point and view the battle flags that ring the nave, you'll get some idea of why it deserves our respect.
"A free country is not nothing."
No, but we are dealing with human beings and such a bloodless statement does not suffice for a contest of countries. And, oddly enough, it is a meme that has to be sold. Its not obviously desirable.
Anyway if someone wanted to argue that the civic rituals under discussion are not wholly spontaneous but may in part be promoted--possibly for propagandistic purposes-by our government, the fact that we pay a nice chunk of change towards these leagues might be pretty good evidence.
Of course the showing of the flag and the anthem are not “spontaneous.” Rituals never are. Readers, this is a classical example of a straw man argument. The implication seems to be that the anthem is only credible if the fans break out in patriotic song at, what, random intervals? And “evidence” of … what? Is recruiting for the military now considered a crime?
[Trump] … should have said BLM ought to be embracing the constitution rather than insulting it. No mention of the flag.
Maybe – but BLM is a bit too peripheral to the NFL controversy for me to pay much attention.
In this case Trump steals the flag.
To declare that Trump stole the flag is ridiculous, even if meant metaphorically. Trump definitely embraced the flag, which is something that I happen to believe that every POTUS should do.
I think that the commentor may not realize that American Presidents are expected to be patriotic. Eight years of the Obama mindset can dull anyone’s judgement. I believe that if the President sees widespread contempt of the flag the President should condemn the participants in no uncertain terms and perhaps even with very blunt language.
I just don't think there is as much anger at the disrespect for the flag as you think. It's kind of like the posturing that the golf ball video with Trump and Hillary was "violence towards women."
I don't think the crowd is posturing. They're completely sincere. I just think they don't realize what they're actually doing.
The golf ball video is complete posturing. It's a challenge from one side to the other to find the right words to dismiss it, for an at least temporary victory.
Enough. Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance.
I believe that if the President sees widespread contempt of the flag the President should condemn the participants in no uncertain terms and perhaps even with very blunt language.
I don't think so. He should respect the flag himself, but talk about the constitution.
Why respect the flag? He's military.
Talking about the constitution is to remind the civilians what they have in common. He shouldn't sell the flag there.
"I just think they don't realize what they're actually doing."
Most people aren't very reflective. They react emotionally to most things. Thats humanity.
It takes quite an effort to separate oneself from such reactions, and even then its easy to fool yourself.
"I don't think so. He should respect the flag himself, but talk about the constitution."
The nation, the state, pre-existed the constitution. This is very important. There are plenty of nations where the constitution is an irrelevant mess, or has been modified regularly according to passing whims, does not really exist at all, but there, in those places, is still a nation. There is a - well, mystical dimension here, not simply a matter of laws.
A head of state (this is often a monarch, as opposed to a head of government, in the US it is one person) serves, in an ancient Roman sense, as the chief priest of the civic religion.
I don't know why the NFL went all Dixie Chicks, but the Dixie Chicks were able to sell their next album to non Country fans who never actually listened to it. It was a small investment.I hope they invested that money well, because I haven't heard from them in a while. The NFL costs real money and real time to consume, liberals aren't going to throw then a pity watch, except maybe to cheer on the players if not "disrespecting" the flag, then refusing to respect it. Then it will be click during the next commercial break.
I give Oakland a pass, BTW, they are truly reflecting the feelings of their fans.
Principle Trump.
Talking about the constitution is to remind the civilians what they have in common. He shouldn't sell the flag there.
I find the argument that the flag should be honored only by the military to be … well … odd. In my opinion any American civilian has every right and good reason to revere the flag. Trump isn’t “selling” the flag by honoring the flag and condemning those who disrespect it. It was the NFL owners and the kneelers who “sold” the flag – and cheaply at that.
Principle Trump.
Meaning … what? Readers, why do they have to be so vague?
any American civilian has every right and good reason to revere the flag
The shorthand replaces the it's shorthand for, is why.
Nobody defends the latter.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/nba-coach-white-people-especially-need-to-be-made-uncomfortable/
The trick is to get "white people" to pay for the privilege.
The shorthand replaces the it's shorthand for, is why
You are up against human nature there. On Vulcan, your idea could play, I think. Here on Earth? I would like to see the other example of such a Republic that succeeded over time.
"Incredible unforced error by Trump enemies. Instead of having an argument about black victims and police brutality, we are having a national argument about whether liberals respect the country, with the national anthem as a very clear symbol."
This is a prudent point. For once, the progressives have lost the language battle. The chyron in the crawl isn't "Football players protest police brutality", but "Football players protest anthem."
Liberals have a problem with dynamic scoring. They think that if they change the incentives, behaviors will not change, on taxes, and in this case, they are assuming that the audience for football will not change if they make partisan political demands on their audiences.
And with that, I think I am going to read a novel from another centaur tonight.
"I just don't think there is as much anger at the disrespect for the flag as you think."
I am not so sure about that. The NFL undoubtedly thinks fans will have their little temper tantrum and then come crawling back because they can't live without football. However, I know onetime MLB fans who are still angry about the '94 player's strike or the steroid scandal, who say they haven't watched or attended a game in years and they were once season ticket holders.
Showing disrespect to the anthem and country hits a deeper nerve than a strike or steroid use. NFL fans have shown themselves to be capable of ignoring criminal behavior on the part of players, but spitting on America might be the back breaker.
At any rate, even a loss of 20% of their viewers would hit the NFL hard.
My only comment is that i expect I will never again in my life tune in an NFL broadcast. It's looking like probably ditto for the NBA. I'm sick of self-indulgent, millionaire jockstraps.
During the Maoist Cultural Revolution, It was common practice to require someone who failed to toe the party line to stand up and "self-criticize" in front of the group.
If the subject was unwilling, a "struggle session" was set up where he was forced to admit his "crimes" publicly before all assembled.
The Steelers organization creepily forced Alejandro Villanueva to stand up and apologize yesterday for making his teammates and coach "look bad".
I'm surprised he did't use his SERE training to drop a duress signal. Maybe that's what the "tell" at :06 is.
This country is slouching closer to totalitarian Communism every day.
rhardin's been thumping away at the same half-baked ideas for hundreds of comments now and there's clearly no percentage in engaging. I don't plan to, except to make a single point: discipline is not the military's ideal. Saying so reveals ignorance of the military, and also of ideals. Discipline is a tool used to achieve the ideals of the military - an important tool, to be sure, but nothing more.
The shorthand replaces the it's shorthand for, is why. Nobody defends the latter.
I find these subsequent vague statements are still way too cryptic for my poor reading skills to parse coherently. I would be grateful if perhaps one of the commentors would help me out. Start with the assumption that I am in the dark as to the meaning of “shorthand,” “it’s,” and “latter.”
The Steelers organization creepily forced Alejandro Villanueva to stand up and apologize yesterday for making his teammates and coach "look bad".
Hostage tape.
grackle: I find these subsequent vague statements are still way too cryptic for my poor reading skills to parse coherently. I would be grateful if perhaps one of the commentors would help me out. Start with the assumption that I am in the dark as to the meaning of “shorthand,” “it’s,” and “latter.”
rh's pithy, cryptic comments are usually well worth "getting", but today he's just talking out of his ass about something that's well outside his range of comprehension.
We all have our off days.
Civilians play soldier at it, which is not good and you don't want it happening.
The rituals we participate in enable us to construct a shared identity, as we all voluntarily unite around symbols that stand for something & honor what those symbols stand for ("we hold these truths...")
Rituals involving symbols (such as flag and anthem) allow us to choose to display our affiliations. We can choose to present ourselves as pledging our allegiance to the symbols, as respecting but not identifying ourselves as part of those symbols, or as foes of those symbols.
The flag symbol is military in that putting the symbol on a military banner traditionally serves a military purpose, but the symbol itself - the Stars & Stripes "logo" - represents America, the ideals and the principles that soldiers fight and die for, and that civilians can choose to honor and pledge their allegiance to. You don't have to be a soldier to choose to claim these symbols as part of who you are, or to claim yourself as being part of what the symbols embody.
The rituals are of course optional, but when you opt to make a show of refusing to behave with common courtesy toward the symbols being honored, you are making a public statement of disrespect - you're basically announcing yourself to be the enemy of those who take the ceremonies seriously. If that isn't what you mean to do, then your ignorance is probably going to cause someone (probably yourself) a lot of heartache.
"The NFL undoubtedly thinks fans will have their little temper tantrum and then come crawling back because they can't live without football."
Hope you're right, but most people are idiots. Its amazing how many people will take abuse from the media, politicians, celebrities, big business - and come back for more. And they always have the dumbest excuses why.
RH has some bizarre obsession with National anthems and standing for them. He's been saying the same thing for 10 years.
We're talking about a man who hasn't owned a TV for 50 years and spends all his time with HAM radio.
There's always this weird internet phenomenon which has happened numerous times on Althouse and elsewhere.
Someone takes a trollish position, and then 20 people spend 300 comments - mostly repeating the same things with different words - trying to "reason with him".
Evidently, a lot of people get a kick out of it.
Evidently, a lot of people get a kick out of it.
Well, duh! You don't think anybody's going to change his mind for him, do you?
What would be really choice would be the right matchups. For instance, RH could dispute this with Robert Cook.
"Simon Schama's "Citizens" is not a bad place to start. "
It's quite good. I started another book, "Peasants into Frenchmen," which sounded interesting but it was deadly dull.
DOJ just needs to remind the NFL that getting involved in politics can & will make the NFL lose their tax exempt status.
"For instance, RH could dispute this with Robert Cook."
that would be great. Then i could ignore the whole thing.
One troll vs. another.
Its ALL never trump media driven, and its all gonna go flaming away in a Spectacular fashion, especially after the "powers that be" affect this change,. or whatever change they are hoping to accomplish.
I hate this because its a Hijack of the sporting event that I pay for with TV dollars or ticket dollars
I hate this because even in the NFL player guide this sort of behavior is verboten
I hate this because if white NFL players did this because they disliked Barak Obama then the riots that would have ensued and the firings, the violence would still be going on to This day.
I hate this because of all the bullying of people's thoughts, the straw persons pushed up and we all have to salute "free speech" ?
Free Speech is holding town halls, meeting the PTA, meeting Church groups, talking there and making coherent defensible points about IDEAS, not dragging the flag through the mud in the name of Free Speech.
It just all disgusting, this whole circus and charade that I point out again, is all driven by never trump media.
So the NFL, born in my town, the players, the Union, the owners, the TV networks, the cable sports networks will not miss me, but I just hope there are enough of me to make them at least try to think about what they are sowing, because if they are sowing the wind, it can turn into the whirlwind in a hurry.
I swear half these people would side and think like Charles Manson ( because it's where their arguments lead ), but seeing as they are trialing white people and trump, and America by sound-bite and clip and chryon, we have no one to actually debate the ideas.
The whole thing is sad and deserves no more attention from free people, unless large mea-culpa's come from whole groups that will never ever make them.
Watch your back peeps, all these groups have it out for YOU, if you do not think like them and agree.
So Sessions is going after campus free speech suppression? This is a real whipsaw for our Johnny-Come-Lately free speech advocates! Free speech on the playing field, but not on campus!
I don't know if Trump is a genius or an idiot, but his instincts sure do seem to hit pay dirt time after time.
Nielsen: Football ratings off 11 percent this year
Just off the presses. It always pays to go left!!! Their new, more selective appeal will prove a real gold mine!
You know what, though, Althouse pals? Nearly 500 comments and a ton of disagreement but for the most part we kept things pretty civil and at least a little bit interesting the whole time. I probably came the closest to being out-of-bounds personally insulting, but reading most of the rest of the thread even when people strongly disagreed with each other they were talking and not just shouting
Maybe it's a low bar, but good for us!
Hoodlum, I was just thinking today how relatively civil this forum is, particularly about this issue. There's a lot of unbridled anger out there.
Great discussion, guys! Well up to the Althouse standards. G'night!!!
rhhardin said...
A free country is all they deserve. That's what duty and honor were about.
Absolutely wrong.
When we volunteer to serve we volunteer to serve something. We aren't just going out and crawling in the mud for shits and giggles.
That something is a country that lives up to and respects certain ideals. Those ideals are symbolized by the flag.
If you disrespect the flag you are disrespecting the point of the service. If every civilian gets to live their life devoid of virtue then we were protecting/fighting for a bunch of worthless shitheads. Veterans get angry when civilians disrespect the flag because we do expect something from you. There is an unwritten covenant that use to be understood but we are losing.
A free society depends on the virtue of the average citizen. If the average denizen of a country can't be trusted to do the right thing when nobody is watching then a police state is required to keep them in line and citizenship is impossible. Respecting the flag an the country is a demonstration that you are carrying at least a minimum standard that is necessary to have a free country.
If everyone kneels and nobody respects anything it is a short step to Turkey or Venezuela who are only the two latest examples of leftist conquest.
the liberalism as a religion argument seems bolstered now that people are kneeling and shaming others into kneeling.
Soon it must happen multiple times a day to demonstrate one's worth and devotion. Special mats will be sold and used for the kneeling. Special words will be spoken during the kneeling.
Soon simple kneeling will not be enough. Deep bows on both knees and prostration will come.
those who do not participate will be ostracized, have their careers ruined, and face violent retribution.
Soon it must happen multiple times a day to demonstrate one's worth and devotion.
Coming to Green Bay, Wisconsin on Thursday as a matter of fact:
This Thursday during the national anthem at Lambeau Field, Packers players, coaches and staff will join together with arms intertwined—connected like the threads on your favorite jersey," the statement said. "When we take this action, what you will see will be so much more than just a bunch of football players locking arms.
"The image you will see on September 28th will be one of unity. It will represent a coming together of players who want the same things that all of us do—freedom, equality, tolerance, understanding, and justice for those who have been unjustly treated, discriminated against or otherwise treated unfairly."
Yes, who cold complain about being dragged into a BLM protest at a football game?
Why are all of these collectivists always trying to drag us into their hare-brained schemes that always end up in loss of human freedom?
Next they will all be asked, in a show of "unity" to sign a pledge to vote Democrat, no matter how much corruption or malfeasance they witness by that party. It's UNITY!
Corruptocrats ruin everything they touch.
Howard said...
The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):
Heh. The oath to uphold the Constitution violates the Constitution.
Stuart Varney said this morning that he thought the NFL would recover after owners, networks and sponsors see fans turning away. Here's why he's wrong: Once the political shit has hit the fan there is no putting it back. People won't forget because every time a 'kneeler' makes a play on the field his act will spring to mind. No, the unifying enthusiasm we had for the NFL is gone never to return.
Much the same way, Hollywood has spoiled its appeal. I can no longer watch any movie with Meryl Streep, George Clooney, Cher, Robert DeNiro, et al.
"People won't forget because every time a 'kneeler' makes a play on the field his act will spring to mind. No, the unifying enthusiasm we had for the NFL is gone never to return."
Exactly. What patriotic American wants to wear the jersey of a player who hates them and the country? There's a reason DiMaggio, Musial, Starr and Unitas were universally admired - because their personalities were really blank slates. They were certainly not saints, but they didn't express contempt for the country.
The player who really infuriated me was that clown who did stretches during the Anthem. That's not just spitting at the NFL fan base, it's peeing and defecating on them as well. If I owned his jersey, I'd use it to clean the toilet.
"I agree with this and I said just about exactly the same thing here yesterday. I think people want to know, first, when incidents of brutality and abuse come up they aren't just swept under the carpet. It's about accountability and not sweeping things under the rug."
You'd have to disband police unions to achieve the level of transparency, which is something I doubt the left is eager to do.
I mean, libertarians have been on police brutality (see Radley Balko's work on no-knock raids, etc.) for years but everyone (Reps and Dems) is hopped up on giving more and more power to the state(s) to abuse.
""The image you will see on September 28th will be one of unity. It will represent a coming together of players who want the same things that all of us do—freedom, equality, tolerance, understanding, and justice for those who have been unjustly treated, discriminated against or otherwise treated unfairly.""
Fuck off and play football. You want to do this? Do it on your own damn time like everyone else has to.
I think the Steeler management and ownership has been at odds with the community for years, but they very skillfully kept it under wraps. The Rooney's were in the bag for Obama and they have been very instrumental in seeing to it that blacks are interviewed for coaching jobs. When the one Rooney took the ambassadorship to Ireland during the Obama years it should have been a tell that they were more political than may have been wise. I have lost interest in the NFL over the past ten years due to it becoming one dimensional and arcane rules interpretations that don't pass the smell test of common sense. I did remain loyal to the Steelers and
was disturbed when I learned that my DVR had failed to record the Chicago game this Sunday. I was traveling and did manage to listen on the radio without knowing anything of the pre game incident. Now, I'm not so unhappy. The absence of effort from time to time may be explainable by what seems to be a considerable amount of dissension with the ranks.
I'm tired of everything being politicized and I'm tired of being hectored. I can fill the entertainment gap with old movies from when there was still some sense of unity within the country.
I think we are headed the way of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, a monument to diversity. Within a century or perhaps half that I think there's a good chance this land mass will be balkanized to a degree that will make linguists wonder precisely when it was that Americanized replaced Balkanized. T
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