Althouse: "The A.C.L.U. needs a more contextual, creative advocacy when it comes to how it defends the freedom of speech."

August 17, 2017

"The A.C.L.U. needs a more contextual, creative advocacy when it comes to how it defends the freedom of speech."

"The group should imagine a holistic picture of how speech rights are under attack right now, not focus on only First Amendment case law. It must research how new threats to speech are connected to one another and to right-wing power. Acknowledging how criminal laws, voting laws, immigration laws, education laws and laws governing corporations can also curb expression would help it develop better policy positions. Sometimes standing on the wrong side of history in defense of a cause you think is right is still just standing on the wrong side of history."

That's from a NYT op-ed by K-Sue Park ("a housing attorney and the Critical Race Studies fellow at the U.C.L.A. School of Law") called "The A.C.L.U. Needs to Rethink Free Speech."

Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights.

Thanks to the ACLU for standing up for free speech where it counts — when the speaker is hated.

You can donate to the ACLU here.

124 comments:

Kevin said...: Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights.

Nuanced Ann. Don't forget nuanced.

For extra effect, people like to add "moral", as if that's in the Constitution too.; 8/17/17, 9:54 AM
Kevin said...: I would gladly support the ACLU if they defended the Second Amendment as vigorously as they defended the First.

Unfortunately, they find defending the entirety of the document to beyond them at this point in time.; 8/17/17, 9:55 AM
Matt Sablan said...: Isn't it funny how context always involves the right being evil, and By Any Means Necessary is the right way to deal with them? When EVERY solution looks the same, I start wondering if... maybe there's a flaw in the reasoning getting there.; 8/17/17, 9:58 AM
Now I Know! said...: Progressives founded the ACLU almost a hundred years ago. Liberals have sustained it since then. Many conservative politicians have denigrated it over the years. (Remember George H.W. Bush linking Dukakis to it in 1988?)

Thank you Ann Althouse for giving credit to where credit is due. Yes, there are many on the right and the left who advocate for curbing free speech, but there is only one ACLU.; 8/17/17, 9:59 AM
Steve M. Galbraith said...: Here, in part, is Ms. Park's CV:

B.A. Cornell University, 2002
M.Phil. University of Cambridge, 2003
J.D. Harvard Law School, 2015
Ph.D. UC Berkeley, 2015

Amazing. This is no crackpot, someone not versed in the law. She's clearly a brilliant, accomplished person.

Okay, it's really not so amazing, is it?; 8/17/17, 9:59 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "The group should imagine a holistic picture of how speech rights are under attack right now, not focus on only First Amendment case law."

-- How about by organizations threatening to burn down a location that hosts a speaker they don't like, or to attack people for attending a parade with a float they don't like? Granted, there may be case law about whether that's speech or not, but that would be part of the holistic picture, right?; 8/17/17, 9:59 AM
deepelemblues said...: don't worry, after they destroy the constitution they'll pass a new one that guarantees us all the same freedoms.

the same way the soviet constitution guaranteed freedom of speech, press, assembly, and religion.; 8/17/17, 10:00 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "Sometimes standing on the wrong side of history in defense of a cause you think is right is still just standing on the wrong side of history."

-- Sigh. I find I'm going to be saying this a lot lately: Even assholes have rights.; 8/17/17, 10:00 AM
Quaestor said...: Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights.

That's the goal, isn't it? Can't have a socialist utopia with rights. Otherwise, you've got kulaks thwarting the Diktat of the Proletariat.; 8/17/17, 10:01 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: "Sometimes standing on the wrong side of history in defense of a cause you think is right is still just standing on the wrong side of history."

Is she talking about the Antifa or the Nazis?

The Right Side of History is paved with good intentions, apparently.

I am Laslo.; 8/17/17, 10:01 AM
Henry said...: I joined the ACLU for the first time when Trump was elected. It was a pledge against Trumpism. Who knew that the left would be the one most unhappy with it.; 8/17/17, 10:02 AM
deepelemblues said...: can't you just FEEL history bearing down on you?

history does what history wants. humans arent involved really.; 8/17/17, 10:02 AM
MountainMan said...: "Amazing. This is no crackpot, someone not versed in the law. She's clearly a brilliant, accomplished person."

She is credentialed. That does not mean the same thing as being educated.; 8/17/17, 10:02 AM
Shane said...: Contributions can also be made to "F.I.R.E." in protections of free speech. They have actually done the work all along, rather than when it simply became a chance for fundraising exposure. Where has the ACLU been at any time in the past few years as campuses across the country shut down speech they didn't think more popular or politically expedient than not.

The ACLU has not been any more reliable than the way the wind blows ever since Reagan pulled his ACLU membrship card out of his wallet back in the debates.; 8/17/17, 10:03 AM
Meade said...: I just now gave them $100. Big virtue signaler that I am.; 8/17/17, 10:06 AM
John henry said...: Ann said

Thanks to the ACLU for standing up for free speech where it counts — when the speaker is hated.

You can donate to the ACLU here.

I just donated.

the first amendment means absolutely NOTHING if it does not protect hate speech.

The ACLU would be worth NOTHING if it did not protect all speech.

The NY Times, America's newspaper of record (koff, koff) is a vile despicable rag for advocating suppression of any kind of speech.

I sometimes find the ACLU maddening. As Kevin said, they seem to ignore 2A and other things to focus mostly 1A. I an understand how many would find their intervention on the side of American National Socialists maddening. I don't like them anymore than 99.999% of Americans.

I am ashamed that this is my first donation ever to ACLU. I will do better in the future.

Thanks for this nudge, Ann.

How many others here have ever contributed to ACLU? Perhaps this is the day you do? For those who have not.

John Henry; 8/17/17, 10:07 AM
ndspinelli said...: Thanks for the ACLU link. I routinely donate to www.thefire.org and will make the ACLU part of my quarterly donation.; 8/17/17, 10:07 AM
David said...: "Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights."

Just as holistic criteria for college admissions grease the way to discrimination. A word without a settled understandable meaning. Perfect for the progressive authoritarian.; 8/17/17, 10:11 AM
Kevin said...: I just now gave them $100. Big virtue signaler that I am.

I heard about a white public school teacher who was an NAACP member. When he would get called into meetings with black parents who accused his disciplinary and grading policies as racist he would put his NAACP card on the table to push the discussion in a more productive direction.

Seemed like cheap insurance in that environment.; 8/17/17, 10:13 AM
hombre said...: It has become crystal clear that the seditious left supports the decimation of rights guaranteed by the First and Second Amendments. They are supported by their mediaswine and probably the GOPe.

There are no prominent politicians, other than Trump perhaps, who act with the best interest of the country in mind and the news media is unabashedly dishonest.

The country is toast.; 8/17/17, 10:13 AM
John henry said...: Blogger Shane said...

Contributions can also be made to "F.I.R.E." in protections of free speech.

Good idea, Shane. As long as I had my card out and am in a generous mood, I duked them a couple bucks too.

John Henry; 8/17/17, 10:13 AM
Steve M. Galbraith said...: That does not mean the same thing as being educated.

Ah, but she IS educated. Very well educated.

It's what she's educated about that's the problem. That is: identity politics, group rights and group outcomes, power. Not individual rights.

In this view, a law isn't fair if it leads to unequal outcomes. And because whites have more power any equal application of the law is to their advantage. The scales must be tilted to take that into account.; 8/17/17, 10:13 AM
Drago said...: Unknown: " Yes, there are many on the right and the left who advocate for curbing free speech, but there is only one ACLU."

LOL

Go ahead and name those on the Right who "advocate for curbing free speech".

Just a couple of examples ought to be enough.; 8/17/17, 10:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Her only problem is that she neglected to state what kind of hole her 'holistic' approach is meant for. It would have been clearer if she'd written what she meant, which was 'assholistic'.; 8/17/17, 10:15 AM
David said...: I gave up contributing to ACLU a while ago. Think I will try to find a way to contribute to ACLU of Virginia.

I have defended the "shared blame" concept about the Cville riot. It is losing me friends. Real ones not Facebook.

The Dean of UVA (my law school) sent a communication to all grads. Lots of condemnation of the right. None of the left. I understand her dilemma. An attempt at balance could cost her job. This way she only sheds integrity.; 8/17/17, 10:16 AM
Seeing Red said...: The King took those same requirements into consideration. For all her schooling, she's unclear on the concept.; 8/17/17, 10:17 AM
Drago said...: hombre: "The country is toast."

The left lost an election after weaponizing the federal govt against its republican opponents, having massive control of the majority of media and academia, and colluding with foreign governments to bring down the republican candidate.

And because the left lost when they thought they had reached the critical mass for the power necessary for generational control and dismantling of the constitution, the little marxists have decided to just completely remove their masks and burn the whole thing down along with their "lifelong republican" allies.; 8/17/17, 10:17 AM
Meade said...: Go ahead and name those on the Right who "advocate for curbing free speech".

Karl Rove this morning on Fox; 8/17/17, 10:19 AM
hombre said...: I commend the ACLU for their continuing stand on free speech. It almost balances the damage they do to freedom of religion, but not quite.

Not a dime from me!; 8/17/17, 10:20 AM
Michael said...: History does not have sides. The past is one damn thing after another, and the future is what we make of it. To speak of "the right/wrong" side of history is simply foolishness.; 8/17/17, 10:21 AM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Thanks to the ACLU for standing up for free speech where it counts — when the speaker is hated.

For how long? Where are they when speech and due process rights are attacked on college campuses?; 8/17/17, 10:21 AM
Meade said...: "I have defended the "shared blame" concept about the Cville riot. It is losing me friends. Real ones not Facebook."

You can never lose my friendship, David. Really and virtually.; 8/17/17, 10:22 AM
Drago said...: Powerlineblog shows what the left is really all about re: Dana Milbanks comment:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/08/dana-milbank-reveals-the-game.php

snip: "In today’s Washington Post, Dana Milbank writes of the events in Charlottesville and/or the issue of monuments for Confederates: “It’s not a tough debate. It’s not a debate at all. There are Nazis and there are the rest of us.”'

"There are Nazis and there are the rest of us."

No caveats.

No exceptions.

You are either on the left politically or you are a Nazi, according to the left.

That is the endgame.; 8/17/17, 10:22 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Karl Rove this morning on Fox

8/17/17, 10:19 AM

Is he arguing for curbing the free speech of scummy Nazis?

The GOP Establishment is so anxious to escape the "racism" charge and is still so butthurt about Trump's election, that it is siding with the totalitarian Left on this issue.

It's been quite some time since I gave a rat's ass what Karl Rove thinks about anything.; 8/17/17, 10:23 AM
Wince said...: Yeesh.; 8/17/17, 10:24 AM
Bob Boyd said...: "The fact people with ideas everyone hates can march freely in America isn't evidence of institutional fascism, it's evidence of the opposite" - ?; 8/17/17, 10:25 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "There are Nazis and there are the rest of us."

No caveats.

No exceptions."

That's basically what Ritmo was saying last night.

Everyone who voted for Trump is a Nazi or Nazi symp.

And Ritmo also thinks the sins of the Confederacy were far worse than any crimes committed by Communists. The Confederacy ceased to exist in 1865. Communists are killing and torturing people at this very second.; 8/17/17, 10:28 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: LEFTIST PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS ARE ANTI-FREE SPEECH.; 8/17/17, 10:28 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: If you are not on the far left, you will be marginalized, ridiculed, and silenced.; 8/17/17, 10:29 AM
Bob Boyd said...: "Everyone who voted for Trump is a Nazi or Nazi symp."

And if it wasn't for that meddling Putin, they'd have elected Hillary!; 8/17/17, 10:31 AM
Charlie said...: According to the NYT, the commie women also had more orgasms. Not a great week for the Times.; 8/17/17, 10:31 AM
Chest Rockwell said...: The ACLU can be politicized just like anything else. Their track record over the last few years leaves me in doubt.

Why not donate to a group like FIRE. Seems to me they stand principally where it all this lunacy starts, college campuses. https://www.thefire.org/donate/; 8/17/17, 10:32 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "That's basically what Ritmo was saying last night.

Everyone who voted for Trump is a Nazi or Nazi symp."

Ritmo didn't quite go there, but since Nazis and Nazi symps are bad people with no rights, what do you do with them?

Bill Ayres knew how you deal with deplorables back in 1970, didn't he, when he estimated that at 25 million wrong thinking Americans would have to die.

We have to stop fascism, you know.; 8/17/17, 10:33 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "Why not donate to a group like FIRE. Seems to me they stand principally where it all this lunacy starts, college campuses. https://www.thefire.org/donate/"

I agree.; 8/17/17, 10:33 AM
Michael K said...: Henry is going to define "Trumpism" for us any minute now.

Kevin,

Seemed like cheap insurance in that environment.

I got solicited years ago from some Martin Luther King society. Most of these, including the police funds, are scams but this one had a certificate so I donated and framed it and hung it in my office waiting room.; 8/17/17, 10:34 AM
Scott said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/17/17, 10:36 AM
dreams said...: "Go ahead and name those on the Right who "advocate for curbing free speech"."

"Karl Rove this morning on Fox"

He's a political opportunist, the guy who encouraged George Bush to expand the drug benefit.; 8/17/17, 10:37 AM
YoungHegelian said...: Sometimes standing on the wrong side of history in defense of a cause you think is right is still just standing on the wrong side of history.

When someone talks to you & they say they know what's the right & wrong side of history, I suggest that you get yourself an AR-15 & lots &lots of ammo.

No one, but no one, can murder their fellow human like someone who knows what' the "right side of history:.; 8/17/17, 10:39 AM
Scott said...: "Critical race studies" is the phrenology of social science. K-Sue Park's credential as the "Critical Race Studies fellow at the U.C.L.A. School of Law" should disqualify (her? him? using "them") from commenting on issues of import in a major newspaper. Any insights offered through the lens of their academic training are instant garbage.; 8/17/17, 10:39 AM
hombre said...: @Drago (10:17): Exactly. Trump is basically isolated. At this point he must fight fire with fire by aligning himself with Republican Congressional/Senate candidates who support him and/or oppose the leadership of McConnell and Ryan, who are trying to bring him down. Judge Roy Moore (Alabama) would be a good start. A primary for Ryan and all the Repub. senators up in 2018 is also in order.

Burn down the GOPe unless they come around. The left is implacable.; 8/17/17, 10:39 AM
Anonymous said...: OT -

Here's an article related to the Althouse Rule about writing about male/female studies:

Deals with the "Google memo" and reaction.

All in the Delivery; 8/17/17, 10:47 AM
Jupiter said...: The ACLU appears to be a fairly loosely organized outfit. Perhaps some local chapters behave like the First Amendment idealists they claim to be. But many are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Left. The ACLU of Washington have been using all those donations all you lovely people give them to try to destroy the lives of Christians who refuse to bow to our new homosexual masters. Of course, Althouse has a well-known blind spot where homosexuals are concerned. The rest of you should know better.; 8/17/17, 10:47 AM
Sebastian said...: "Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights." Quite the contrary. They are the way constitutional rights are now fabricated. How else can you impose SSM on the states, on the basis of a nineteenth-century amendment, via "substantive due process"? In that area, as in any other, there is nothing subtle about it. It is a pure power play, using any rhetorical means necessary. On free speech, the ACLU is a bit fuddy-duddy for the moment (and some judges, of course), but the C'ville mayor and VA governor and this author point the way to enlightenment, long since reached on campuses opposed to "hate speech."

The left wants to win. Free speech is fine as a tool, and was earlier in the twentieth century, but has lost its political value. Now it's just a nuisance, an obstacle to the cleansing of the public sphere. It's gotta go.

In fact, the cleansing is overdue: the left has been uncomfortable with free speech for a while now. Look for the ACLU to be cast as a tool of business and the right--replaying an old debate, in order to unravel the "calculated bargain" on speech struck during the New Deal. Laura Weinrib wrote a good book about it.; 8/17/17, 10:49 AM
David said...: Thank you Meade. That was very sweet and touching.; 8/17/17, 10:50 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Masks and baseball bats, or holistically - the left will remove your access to ... well, anything them damn well please. But please, don't call them totalitarian fascist a-holls.; 8/17/17, 10:50 AM
CStanley said...: There was a fictional character who was really good with the creative contextual interpretation of rights: a pig called Napoleon.; 8/17/17, 10:50 AM
David said...: "The ACLU appears to be a fairly loosely organized outfit. Perhaps some local chapters behave like the First Amendment idealists they claim to be."

Over the years ACLU has done a lot more good than bad. The local chapters have a lot of discretion in what cases they take on. Being human they do not always choose well.; 8/17/17, 10:52 AM
Chuck said...: Brava, Althouse!!! One sentence, defeating an entire op-ed: Contextual... creative... holistic... these are the subtleties that grease the way to the end of constitutional rights.

Bravo, Kevin!!! One of the more formidable Althouse commenters adds an important note: I would gladly support the ACLU if they defended the Second Amendment as vigorously as they defended the First.

And a good line from commenter Shane: Contributions can also be made to "F.I.R.E." in protections of free speech. FIRE has not gotten enough credit, and they deserve more. Thanks for bringing FIRE up, Shane.

For others who questioned the ACLU, I will remind all that the ACLU -- against the wishes of many of its supporters -- sided with the plaintiff as an amicus party in Citizens United v. FEC. That's a wonderful thing in my view in case anybody was wondering.; 8/17/17, 10:54 AM
Drago said...: Meade: "Karl Rove this morning on Fox"

Good one Meade! But I asked for someone in the Right.

We really should delineate principled conservatives from establishment/anti-Trunp republicans who time and again accept, internalize and operate within leftist narratives.; 8/17/17, 10:55 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: Shorter NYTimes:

We care about leftism, more than we care about the free exchange of ideas. Please censor our opponents!

Very impressed with the ACLU on this one.; 8/17/17, 10:56 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Critical Race Studies is just higher special ed. And specialer.; 8/17/17, 10:59 AM
Birches said...: I'd be happy to donate to the ACLU if they decided that religious liberty was worth protecting again. Another 10 years and they'll be done defending free speech too, after all their recruiting pools are colleges and universities.; 8/17/17, 11:01 AM
Hagar said...: The ACLU was great in California in the early 1920's. That is a long time ago.

I once saw a portion of a the Bill Buckley show titled; "Resolved: The ACLU is full of baloney." I soon decided that it was Bill Buckley who was full of baloney and the ACLU debaters were full of nothing at all, and changed channels.

That "standing on the right side of history" clangs with me. Anyone know where that phrase comes from and why it is so alarming for me?; 8/17/17, 11:02 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Steve M. Galbraith said...

Ah, but she IS educated. Very well educated.

Being highly educated is not the same as being well educated.; 8/17/17, 11:03 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "Anyone know where that phrase comes from and why it is so alarming for me?"

-- I don't remember hearing it a lot until the Obama era, where I feel it was a play on Martin Luther King Jr's quote, "Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."; 8/17/17, 11:03 AM
Chuck said...: Meade said...
"Go ahead and name those on the Right who 'advocate for curbing free speech'."

Karl Rove this morning on Fox

Laurence, I saw Karl Rove this morning with Shannon Bream. At least I thought I did. I was multitasking, and really trying to listen to Karl Rove when I should have been doing something else, and so perhaps I missed what you heard. What did Rove say that was an encouragement for curbing free speech?!?

I want to add something else, because if Laurence saw Rove then perhaps he saw the video clip of Ted Cruz at home in Texas condemning neo-Nazis and related groups in terms that were so perfect I thought it was a tutorial on what Trump should be saying. It aired on Fox shortly after Rove's appearance.

I'd link to that Cruz video but I am honestly not sure where to find it.; 8/17/17, 11:06 AM
Hagar said...: No. I think it has to do with either the Bolsheviks or the Nazis.; 8/17/17, 11:08 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: 'memeber when Obama lied to our faced about the real meaning of Citizens United.
I do.

The left will take your money, and call it dark, remove your free speech, call it holistic - for their common goal.; 8/17/17, 11:09 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: There is no such thing as being on the "right side of History." "History" does not act. Individual human beings act and decree and, on occasion, change the course of history or better or worse.

Jacques Barzun wrote of the optimism that he felt as a small child, optimism communicated to him by his parents and their upper class, artsy friends in Paris in the years before WWI. The 20th century was going to be great! Gavrilo Princip changed all that.; 8/17/17, 11:13 AM
tcrosse said...: I think the sidedness of history comes from a misreading of Hegel.; 8/17/17, 11:14 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Naaah, no money from me now. I was a member of the ACLU a long time ago (well, a long time for me anyway).
Dropped 'em. They couldn't work out a way to support the 2nd Amendment as an individual right and their idea of freedom of religion and association somehow wound its way around to being on the side shouting "bank the cake, bigot!"
They do some good work, and good for them, but no cash from me.; 8/17/17, 11:17 AM
Virgil Hilts said...: If we had a rule that it was OK for society to suppress ideas/speech that say 90% of HLS' students/faculty (Ms. Park's alma mater) agreed were wrong, I do not think Ms. Park would be where she is today. I even dare suggest that today America would be in a worse place than Ms. Park thinks it is.
At the same time that "wrong" national socialist ideas were ascending, you could have found 90%+ support for government-involved eugenics at Harvard and Columbia.
I am certain 90% of us here harbor at least some beliefs that our grand-children will find absolutely abhorrent (you assholes actually ate pigs?). Not embracing free speech is the height of hubris.; 8/17/17, 11:17 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: The ash heap ( or dustbin ) of history is a Trotsky quote that Reagan paraphrased.
The arc of the moral universe was MLK.
Bill Clinton was big on the wrong side of history.; 8/17/17, 11:18 AM
Meade said...: "Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

I heard someone on NPR yesterday, malapropring that to "bending the arc of justice" and I thought, you have no idea how true your misquote is, Mr. Mass Hysteria.; 8/17/17, 11:20 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Drago said...You are either on the left politically or you are a Nazi, according to the left.

That's partially correct, Drago, but I'm afraid it doesn't go far enough.
Mitt Romney's not on the Left, but he expressed that same thing.
The NRO crowd did, too, and they're not on the Left.
Senator Rubio went a little further and said that violence against groups that are based on hatred is "justified." He's not on the Left, either.
Several of the nice, good people commenting on this blog expressed similar statements.

So yeah, that's the endgame, but it's not just the Left working hard to get us there.; 8/17/17, 11:21 AM
Tyrone Slothrop said...: As a stupid liberal kid, the 1977 defense of the Skokie Nazis had a very strong effect on shaping my personal political philosophy. It gave me a headache trying to deal with the fact that the ACLU was sticking up for a group as despicable as the National Socialist Party of America, but gradually I came to see the light. That was freedom. That was America. You pay the small price of letting the idiots talk, and rely on the great strength of the constitutional government to weather it. Sadly, this can no longer be permitted.

I've spent hours online trying to impart this lesson to today's stupid liberal kids without any success. Because I defend freedom of speech, I'm a Nazi, too. I'm outnumbered, reviled and trampled by a heedless mob climbing each other's backs to get to totalitarianism.

I'm pessimistic. These kids are building a monochromatic future without risk, without accomplishment, without ideas that don't conform to a Soviet consensus. I'm glad I'll be dead and won't have to endure it.; 8/17/17, 11:22 AM
Henry said...: can't get by the paywall, but why is the holistic approach an "instead of" rather than an "in addition to"?

Democracy dies in contextual creative advocacy.; 8/17/17, 11:26 AM
Craig said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/17/17, 11:31 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Tucker Carlson takes down Bill Kristol -; 8/17/17, 11:31 AM
Craig said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/17/17, 11:35 AM
Steven said...: Ah, yes. Because when the Republicans have trifecta control of the Federal Government and 26 state governments is exactly the point when it makes sense for the left to support redefining free speech.; 8/17/17, 11:36 AM
Craig said...: Blogger Henry said...
can't get by the paywall, but why is the holistic approach an "instead of" rather than an "in addition to"?

---

I can't read the tone of this comment, but from the bit of the article excerpted in the post:

"The group should imagine a holistic picture of how speech rights are under attack right now, not focus on only First Amendment case law."

(This excerption, and its 'only', seems consistent with the full article to my read.)

Cruel neutrality is rearing its head here again--since cruel neutrality seems to be a decidedly unequal distribution of careful and charitable readings, signaled by the Professor, and amplified by the commentariat.

(This try is the charm. Apparently, even if blogger permits it, I don't have the talent to use some HTML tags.); 8/17/17, 11:36 AM
Rick said...: Meade said...
Karl Rove this morning on Fox

This would be more convincing if you summarized what he said.; 8/17/17, 11:37 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Is it okay to yell F.I.R.E. at free speech rally?; 8/17/17, 11:37 AM
Hagar said...: "I have seen the future, and it works!"

The Communists and Nazis both used a lot of propaganda posters showing heroic figures with a bright rising sun.; 8/17/17, 11:42 AM
MadisonMan said...: I look forward to the Times column titled "The A.C.L.U Needs to Rethink the Free Press"; 8/17/17, 11:43 AM
Trumpit said...: I know a lot about injustice (It's hugely painful.) because I tried, at great cost, to get justice for my sleeping mother's murder in the hospital (while I was at her bedside!) from a (phoned in) morphine overdose in 2012 by two doctors with the help of three obedient ER nurses. The Santa Monica police refused to investigate because it involved a hospital and doctors. The Medical Board of California ran the fraudulent records passed a doctor who whitewashed the whole thing (ignorantly, intentionally or both). For various reasons, it was impossible for me to find a qualified attorney to help me. The unqualified ones were out for my money.

From the article being discussed: "States are considering laws that forgive motorists who drive into protesters." I find that very hard to believe, but in this unjust world in which we live, evil can triumph over good, especially if there is money to be made. The New York Times reported that Kim Jong Dung got his powerful ICBM engines from a nearly mothballed factory in the Ukraine. People will prostitute themselves even if millions should die as a result.; 8/17/17, 11:44 AM
Mark Jones said...: Uh oh. The ACLU has wandered off the progressive plantation by supporting free speech for thee as well as for me. Not to worry, I'm sure they'll soon come around.

But since the ACLU has never seen fit to defend the Second Amendment, they can go hang, as far as I'm concerned. I'll support other, more focused organizations.; 8/17/17, 11:44 AM
mockturtle said...: Tucker Carlson takes down Bill Kristol -

Thanks, Dickin'. That was excellent. Mass hysteria is probably the best description of what's going on today. It evolved out of Trump Derangement Syndrome.; 8/17/17, 11:45 AM
Ambrose said...: I really hate the use of the verb "needs" in this context. People tell us what we or some institution "needs to do" when really what they mean is "I want you to."; 8/17/17, 11:45 AM
mockturtle said...: Also a good point: Since some slave owners wrote the Constitution, we'll just have to toss that out, too.; 8/17/17, 11:48 AM
Craig said...: Blogger Ambrose said...
I really hate the use of the verb "needs" in this context. People tell us what we or some institution "needs to do" when really what they mean is "I want you to."

---

Ahahahahahahahaha. Man... Luckily there are whole literatures on what grounds modal claims, both moral and otherwise, that could help you fix this up. Google has plenty; whether you want something more technical or something more accessible, you can find something good.; 8/17/17, 11:50 AM
John henry said...: Blogger Scott said...

"Critical race studies" is the phrenology of social science.

I thought social science was the phrenology of education. Wouldn't that make race studies the phrenology of phrenology?

I have a social science degree in addition to several real degrees so I have standing to speak on this.

John Henry; 8/17/17, 11:50 AM
sparrow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/17/17, 11:54 AM
Craig said...: Blogger John said...
Blogger Scott said...

"Critical race studies" is the phrenology of social science.

I thought social science was the phrenology of education. Wouldn't that make race studies the phrenology of phrenology?

I have a social science degree in addition to several real degrees so I have standing to speak on this.

John Henry

---

This discussion is high comedy.; 8/17/17, 11:54 AM
sparrow said...: The ACLU is selective of which clauses it supports in the first ammendment as well notably being against religious freedom; 8/17/17, 11:55 AM
mockturtle said...: sparrow points out: The ACLU is selective of which clauses it supports in the first ammendment as well notably being against religious freedom

Notably selective about that, too. They will support Satanists but not usually Christians.; 8/17/17, 11:59 AM
Mike Sylwester said...: This is what happens when a Scientific Progressive is allowed to become a Critical Race Studies fellow at the UCLA School of Law.; 8/17/17, 12:01 PM
Krumhorn said...: The left is winning the PR war. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, the establishment Never Trump conservatives are helping them along...and so, very often, is Trump. It will get a lot worse long before it ever gets better.

- Krumhorn; 8/17/17, 12:03 PM
Fernandinande said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/17/17, 12:03 PM
Rabel said...: The A.C.L.U. needs a more contextual, creative advocacy when it comes to how it defends the freedom of the press.; 8/17/17, 12:05 PM
Krumhorn said...: YoungHegelian at 10:39 nailed it perfectly, as he so often does.

- Krumhorn; 8/17/17, 12:05 PM
Fernandinande said...: tcrosse said...
I think the sidedness of history comes from a misreading of Hegel.

How about misreading the first 1.5 paragraphs of his Wiki page?; 8/17/17, 12:05 PM
Rusty said...: Now I Know! said...
"Progressives founded the ACLU almost a hundred years ago. Liberals have sustained it since then. Many conservative politicians have denigrated it over the years. (Remember George H.W. Bush linking Dukakis to it in 1988?)"

Something you didn't know. Originally the ACLU didn't want to represent the Nazi's and their Skokie march. It was a lone black man. Even while being threatened with dismissal from the organization that filed the motion to let the Nazis march. The ACLU represents causes the benefit the ACLU.
Where are they on civil forfeiture laws?
Speech is speech. There is no such thing as ,"hate speech".; 8/17/17, 12:17 PM
David said...: From Rick:

Meade said...
Karl Rove this morning on Fox

This would be more convincing if you summarized what he said.

Get your spoon and feed them, Meade. Come on. Hurry up. Don't make them look it up.; 8/17/17, 12:19 PM
John henry said...: Blogger Hagar said...

"I have seen the future, and it works!"

The Communists and Nazis both used a lot of propaganda posters showing heroic figures with a bright rising sun.

Also both used lots of posters showing capitalist crushing heroic socialist workers.; 8/17/17, 12:21 PM
John henry said...: As P.J O'Rourke asked his fellow travelers on a visit to Russia in the 80's:

"If socialism is so great, why do you have to bring your own toilet paper?"

Quoting from memory

John Henry; 8/17/17, 12:30 PM
Scott M said...: You are either on the left politically or you are a Nazi, according to the left.

Did you hear they cut the daily chocolate to twenty grams?; 8/17/17, 12:42 PM
Kevin said...: For others who questioned the ACLU, I will remind all that the ACLU -- against the wishes of many of its supporters -- sided with the plaintiff as an amicus party in Citizens United v. FEC. That's a wonderful thing in my view in case anybody was wondering.

Thanks Chuck, good to know.; 8/17/17, 12:48 PM
Gahrie said...: Did you hear they cut the daily chocolate to twenty grams?

No no no...they increased the chocolate ration from thirty grams to twenty grams comrade.; 8/17/17, 1:16 PM
Scott M said...: Yes, of course. My doublethink filter needed updating.; 8/17/17, 1:26 PM
Bob Loblaw said...: Did you hear they cut the daily chocolate to twenty grams?

No, no. They raised it from thirty grams to twenty.; 8/17/17, 1:56 PM
mikeski said...: YoungHegelian said...
No one, but no one, can murder their fellow human like someone who knows what' the "right side of history".

It's right there in the phrase. History can't pick a side in the present; it's history.

Being on the "wrong side of history" requires that you and your fellow travelers are both (1) discredited, and (2) dead.

(And once you've been on the "wrong side of history" for a while, we'll tear down your statues, erase your names from our books, and leave you on "no side of history".); 8/17/17, 2:26 PM
Mark said...: The ACLU is suing to force Catholic hospitals in California to kill babies (including black babies). And also to impose a gag on them to keep them from speaking all that Catholic speech.

Give your money to a group that has some credibility and decency.; 8/17/17, 3:02 PM
Mark said...: Will the ACLU support or defend the right of a person to speak truthfully that a man is a man, not a woman?; 8/17/17, 3:03 PM
n.n said...: On one hand. On the other hand. Always and forever.; 8/17/17, 3:47 PM
tcrosse said...: tcrosse said...
I think the sidedness of history comes from a misreading of Hegel.

How about misreading the first 1.5 paragraphs of his Wiki page?

Quite right. My bad. Where Hegel was silent, and his posterity disagree, is which side was the right side of history.; 8/17/17, 4:13 PM
Anonymous said...: "Critical Race Studies [fellow at the U.C.L.A. School of Law]" well enough identifies a body of thought which at bottom is diametrically opposed to freedom of expression, freedom of association, equal protection under the law and the rights of property, that is, the rights protected by our Constitution. It is not a stretch to view those who share this body of thought as America's enemies, that is, those who would divest people of their certain and unalienable rights by force. Even freely elected Commies are still Commies.; 8/17/17, 4:23 PM
Chest Rockwell said...: Ann,

You may want to update you're request to donate to the ACLU.

We make decisions on whom we’ll represent and in what context on a case-by-case basis. The horrible events in Charlottesville last weekend will certainly inform those decisions going forward.'

I.e., we're going to change our mind.; 8/17/17, 4:27 PM
Leora said...: I stopped giving them money whey they wouldn't defend pro-life protesters, but I just donated for the first time in a few decades.; 8/17/17, 6:40 PM
PSM said...: Ann, you may want to remove that link button, or at least update the post with the ACLU's new policy. https://www.wsj.com/articles/aclu-changes-policy-on-defending-hate-groups-protesting-with-firearms-1503010167 This new policy zeroes in on firearms, not bats, mace, shields, or other weapons. It says nothing about wearing masks to hide identities. Which side of the political debate carries firearms? It is clearly focused on avoiding representing right wing groups without directly saying as much.; 8/17/17, 8:12 PM
Sprezzatura said...: "It is clearly focused on avoiding representing right wing groups without directly saying as much."

Presumably the racist groups can have free speech events w/o loaded guns. So, don't worry your ACLU donation will not be wasted.; 8/17/17, 9:55 PM
ndspinelli said...: Chest Rockwell, I just changed my mind about the ACLU. At what point will it be reported these heavily armed men DID NOT FIRE ONE ROUND even though provoked!; 8/17/17, 10:52 PM
ndspinelli said...: And Chest, I love your name.

Dirk Diggler; 8/17/17, 10:53 PM