June 25, 2017

"Death" framing worked so well for Republicans, so Hillary Clinton tries to deploy it for the Democratic side.

Oh, Hillary. It seems so sad. She attempts a tweet:
Forget death panels. If Republicans pass this bill, they’re the death party.
Will DEATH!!!! work as a political message?

The Republicans famously, successfully used "death" to reframe political issues: death tax, death panels. But those were more precise issues that really had to do with death. "Death tax" was a reframing of "estate tax," and "death panels" had to do with end-of-life medical decisionmaking.

"Death party" asks us to believe the Republican Party is happy to let us die.

I would think that crudely shouting DEATH!!!! would cause many people to turn away from the whole discussion. And for many others — especially people facing life-threatening conditions or with family members who are dying or have died — the harping on death causes pain and anxiety.

Is this the right way to try to talk to people?

234 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Dullards will be dull, news at 10.

Michael said...

Inga

World wide web tip: Writing in all caps is indicative of a crazy person or, at best, a stupid person. For what its worth.

Birkel said...

Embrace the healing power of and.

Anonymous said...

"World wide web tip: Writing in all caps is indicative of a crazy person or, at best, a stupid person. For what its worth."

Now, now Michael. That's not a nice thing to say to Althouse. After all she wrote "DEATH!!", did she not? Hmmmmm? Also your repetitive admonitions about ALL CAPS is boring.

Anonymous said...

Are boring. Yes indeed they are boring.

wildswan said...

In discussions how to manage when Illinois runs out of money in August we see that the plan is to stop funding old people first. Stop funding nursing homes, stop funding hospices in August. Party of Death? Look no further than the Dems in Chicago.

As for making Medicare a model or extending it, if you were on Medicare you would know that many MD's are refusing to accept Medicare patients. It's because they don't get paid or rather get paid 20 to 80 percent of the bill. You can't get anyone to hear this fact but it is a fact. So the idea of "extending" MediCan'tGetCare is a bitter joke. And now in Chicago they talking are limiting care for older people. Extending Medicare to others? For those of us who are older the system is fast becoming Medikill.

Still death IS a depressing subject so how can it be a campaign issue? Perhaps we should try to make the point that the Dems are the Party of Next Life Now.
"What do the old want?
Next Life!
When should they get it?
Now!"

Or how about Next Life as freebie?
"Free Next Like For All [those over 75]!!"

"Have you ever wondered about Heaven? Chicago Med can arrange a free trip to check it out. Call 1-800-NextLife for your all expense paid trip. No worries. (We have been assured by the management that Donald Trump and the alt right will not be there ...whatever he may tweet.)

BJM said...

Inga I've lived in Australia, Germany, Italy, France and the UK. Believe what you read, but I've been there.

You would be horrified at the level of healthcare provided to the average citizen in Germany, my local veterinary hospital is better equipped and cleaner than the one I experienced in Dortmann.

Italy wasn't even a starter, we joined a private concierge service for general healthcare and air evac to Switzerland.

The UK is not only a disaster for the most vulnerable Brits as they're out of OP money, but the worst part is you are assigned a doctor. If you don't mesh or they are inept you cannot see another on the NHS. This works okay for ordinary care, vaccinations, checkups, birth control. Another issue is that they only pay for care such as mammograms or cancer screening on a set periodic schedule. Women pay a dear price for this lack of screening we take as routine. Of course, you can use private services and pay out of pocket. I did not care for the bumbling fuckwit I was assigned and as I was healthy and could afford to do so, I went to a private practitioner.

France was fine if you could pay and were in an urban area, although the clinic and doctors hours seemed arbitrary and capricious.

BTW- Don't have an auto crash or a serious medical issue in rural areas in any European country...there is no "golden hour".

The Aussies had high hopes when they began their single payer, called Medicare, in the mid-80's. My doctor accepted "schedule" but didn't direct bill so I had to pay and file for the schedule amount. An average GP visit was $50 and schedule reimbursement was $27. Unlike the UK you can see any doctor or use any facility but schedule never covers the expenditure 100%.

Achilles said...

Turn Medicare/Medicaid into universal catastrophic insurance and a national emergency room system that doesn't accept walk ins. Cover people with true congenital issues.

HSA's.

No state boundaries on (supplemental) health insurance.

Open market pricing with required transparency.

No individual State licensing requirements.

Loser pays tort reform.

Proof of legal residency.

Seeing Red said...

It's like they don't read other papers or blogs.

There was a movie from French-Canada about their health care in the 80s.

Larry Elder wrote that in the 90s? There were 13 MRIs available to the entire population of Canada.

There were articles in the aughts about how pets got MRIs faster than humans. Cash will do that.


How many people come here for treatment vs. Going to Canada?

If it was so great Canada would have great medical tourism.

GB spent 4-5 billion euros trying to update their tech fir efficiency. That was flushed down the tubes cos they gave up. Those were headlines and articles in their papers.

Geez, find Irish, Scottish, Canadian bloggers and read what they have to say. And Aussies.


Seeing Red said...

But when the right people are in place, it'll FINALLY WORK! Not!

Michael K said...

the worst part is you are assigned a doctor. If you don't mesh or they are inept you cannot see another on the NHS.

Does anyone here watch the ITV series"Doc Martin" on British TV ?

It is a favorite and has a huge following in Britain. It is a romantic comedy. I watch on NetFlix.

The comedy part is the character is a GP with no bedside matter, is a curmudgeon and insults patients constantly,

He happens to be quite competent but the joke is that the patients in the town have no alternative doctor.

If you want to see what a GOOD doctor looks like in Britain, watch "Doc Martin."

Seeing Red said...

Chaoulli v Quebec (AG) [2005] 1 S.C.R. 791, 2005 SCC 35, was a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada of which the Court ruled that the Quebec Health Insurance Act and the Hospital Insurance Act prohibiting private medical insurance in the face of long wait times violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. In a 4 to 3 decision, the Court found the Acts violated Quebecers' right to life and security of person under the Quebec Charter. The ruling is binding only in Quebec. Three of the seven judges also found that the laws violated section seven of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. One judge did not rule on the Canadian Charter. The result was a 3:3 tie on the question of the Canadian Charter, so Chaoulli decision does not apply to any other province.



And there was an article back in 2008? That Windsor Canada was getting 2 heart surgeons to perform angioplasties. Etc.

Think about that. You know anyone who had angioplasties before 2008? Hmmmm?

Under this wonderful single-payer, you got a blockbuster drug and hopefully hung on until your number came up. If it didn't work, oh, well, tough shit we have priorities.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

BJM said...
Italy wasn't even a starter, we joined a private concierge service for general healthcare and air evac to Switzerland.


This does not jibe with my wife's experience, she is Italian. She used the public health care as does her parents. They sometimes use private doctors if they are in a rush. Her uncle is a doctor. No one needs to be air evac'd to Switzerland, this is just silly.

The Aussies ... My doctor accepted "schedule" but didn't direct bill so I had to pay and file for the schedule amount. An average GP visit was $50 and schedule reimbursement was $27. Unlike the UK you can see any doctor or use any facility but schedule never covers the expenditure 100%.

I lived in Australia for quite some time. Health care in Australia is in many respects better than here. That there is the equivalent of a co-pay is not exactly surprising, this is how things work here. The Republicans are currently arguing that this is a feature rather than a bug since it helps reduce health care cost inflation. You can get supplemental insurance if you wish.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
Does anyone here watch the ITV series"Doc Martin" on British TV ?


I do, it is very funny, if perhaps not entirely realistic.

Anonymous said...


"You would be horrified at the level of healthcare provided to the average citizen in Germany, my local veterinary hospital is better equipped and cleaner than the one I experienced in Dortman"

Baloney. I have relatives in Germany who have absolutely no complaints about their healthcare and feel sorry for us here in the States.

Anonymous said...

"As for making Medicare a model or extending it, if you were on Medicare you would know that many MD's are refusing to accept Medicare patients."

I am on Medicare and I have had absolutely no problems being seen by any doctor I choose or am referred to. I like my Medicare, as do most people who have it. I live in the greater Milwaukee area and have not run into anyone I know who has Medicare who has been turned away from the doctor they've chosen.

Anonymous said...

BTW, Trump himself said Australia has a better health care system than we do.

Michael K said...

"I live in the greater Milwaukee area and have not run into anyone I know who has Medicare who has been turned away from the doctor they've chosen."

Don't move to Phoenix or other more desirable areas if you want to stay that way.

The docs in Madison are busy writing excuses for demonstrators. They are probably all on salary.

Michael K said...

"You can get supplemental insurance if you wish."

Australia had a great system prior to 1987. Then the Labour Party ran on a platform that they would provide free care.

They won Parliament and people quit paying their Medicare, which was collected at the Post Office.

Pandemonium ensued as Labour had made no provision to pay doctors. GPs demanded cash but surgeons, who had always treated paying and non-paying alike, were not being paid. I was there not long after. It took months and years to repair what they had done to an excellent system.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

has Hillary read the GOP bill?

No?

Well then Hillary - fuck off.

Seeing Red said...

What are they sorry about?

Gahrie said...

Have they? Where? What is the reason voters have shifted?

The Democrats are bat-fucking crazy.

Anonymous said...

"Don't move to Phoenix or other more desirable areas if you want to stay that way."

I live in "Lake Country", in Waukesha County, WI, the reddest county in WI., highly desirable lake properties, much more so than the fiery hellish furnace of Phoenix.

Gahrie said...

It does seem that Trump's sole coherent goal in running for president was to one-up Obama.

No..his goal was to get pay back for their insults to him at the correspondents dinner. He decided to run that week, and even took the first steps.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mountain Maven said...

Her caregivers need to hire a new twitter ghostwriter.

chickelit said...

I live in "Lake Country", in Waukesha County, WI, the reddest county in WI., highly desirable lake properties, much more so than the fiery hellish furnace of Phoenix.

“Mo Udall loved telling a story about one of Arizona’s first U.S. senators, Henry Fountain Ashurst (D-Ariz.). As told by Udall, Ashurst in his maiden speech on the Senate floor not long after Arizona gained statehood in 1912 gushed, “Mr President, this great new baby state of Arizona has the potential to become a veritable paradise … (and) to become a veritable paradise we need only two things. We need water and we need lots of good people.” At that point an aging senator from Vermont asked Ashurst to yield. “It the gentleman will forgive me, that’s all they need in hell.”
From the book ” John J. Rhodes, Man of the House” by J. Brian Smith

Achilles said...

The same people pushing government controlled health care:

Beyond Pro-Choice: The Solution to White Supremacy is White Abortion

"In a progressive society, it is often white families that stand in the way of equality and justice. Systemic white supremacy depends, first and foremost, on the white family unit."

"White women: it is time to do your part! Your white children reinforce the white supremacist society that benefits you. If you claim to be progressive, and yet willingly birth white children by your own choice, you are a hypocrite."

These people are just awful.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"It wasn't the party, it was one Dem. He'll probably be pretty well shellacked for it when he next runs for reelection."

The Left will surely rid Cali of this meddlesome murderer-by-the-many-thousands then, you must hope?

Don't you care about all those people who will die without this bill? One person is obstructing the literal lives of many thousands, and all you can resort to is fantasy about a comeuppance next election.

Only a racist doesn't know justice (life itself) delayed is justice denied, is what I thought having heard, HEARD Mr. Cooke, Dr. King expound on the matter with his unique, ignored by you but not by me, transcendent voice.

Monstrous is the quasi-ideology that King fought then and I fight now. So far beyond deplorable, so absolutely unredeemable, I conclude you and yours haven't thought through why one person, elected, could be allowed to allow what transpires this very day.

Kevin said...

"White women: it is time to do your part! Your white children reinforce the white supremacist society that benefits you. If you claim to be progressive, and yet willingly birth white children by your own choice, you are a hypocrite."

These people are just awful.


On the bright side, they're finally getting past bitching about the world and telling us what they want to do about it.

n.n said...

Beyond Pro-Choice: The Solution to White Supremacy is White Abortion

The Democratic Socialists speak. [class] diversity, congruence, elective wars, clinical cannibalism (i.e. abortion industry/Mengele experiments), and denying lives they deem unworthy. The progress of transhuman ideology has enjoyed liberal strides in the post-civil, human, and scientific age.

Bilwick said...

Of course, if--by some miracle (a miracle because it would be pro-freedom--the US adopted my plan to make rich Democrats pay for poor people's health care, and it didn't work out because the rich Dems refused to open their deep pockets, there could be two positive effects: (1) as I've written before, they would have to keep their hands out of OUR pockets; but also (2) they could finally shut the hell up about how "compassionate" they are.

Bilwick said...

"Who’s going to pay for it? Please. Every other wealthy country in the world ensures universal health-care coverage . . ." And if every other wealthy countru in the world jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, should the US do that, too? Actually, considering how the Euroweenies have jumped off into the arms of various forms of statism--including some of the more murderous varieties--you could say they have a long history of doing just that, or the ideological equivalent.

A few decades back, the late libertarian writer Joseph Sobran had a modest proposal for dealing with with what was then the "liberal" Cause du Jour, hunger in America. He proposed issuing vouchers or chits. I forget the exact wording, but the vouchers/chits would read, "Good for one meal. Payable by any liberal." That was the origin of my idea that poor people needing health care should make "liberals" pay for it; certainly the rich "liberals" of the kind who poured millions into the recent Jon Ossoff campaign.

I've said that the beauty part of that would be that the "liberals" would then have to take their hands off our wallets and leave the rest of the hell alone. But another beauty part is that if "liberals" balked at this plan, they would have to shut the hell up about how "compassionate" they are.

"I remember when 'liberal' meant being generous with your own money."--Will Rogers.

Gospace said...

One thing I noticed about Doc Martin, which presumably reflects current medical care in Britain. And other British shows reflecting current day. When Doc Martin, or any other medical professional draws blood in British shows, they use a needle and syringe, not a vacuum tube. That's kind of a big difference in procedures.

The vacuum tubes used here are all color coded for the different tests to be done on the blood inside them. THE syringe requires an additional step to transfer blood to the test tube. It's indicative that the Brits aren't practicing the most modern medicine available.

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