But for many Americans, including President Donald Trump’s staunchest supporters, the "crisis in Washington" is... the latest egregious example of mainstream media bias and of Washington insiders desperate to preserve their status taking revenge on the New York celebrity businessman....2. "How Impeachment Could Help the G.O.P., Not the Democrats" — a heading for letters to the editor responding to a column by Thomas L. Friedman recommending that Democrats give up on the idea of impeaching Donald Trump. One reader says that Republicans might decide it's in their interest to replace Trump with Pence, "who is truly one of their own, would be the best possible way to get their agenda back on track." Another points out that Pence is "a sane, mentally stable, true conservative" who would be hard to run against in 2018.
"This is what I expected," said Jeff Klusmeier, an insurance agent in Louisville, Kentucky. "I expected the media to attack Trump. I expected the Democrats to attack him and call for impeachment. So it's par for the course for me."...
"The overwhelming majority of conservatives and Republicans believe that whatever you may think of Donald Trump, this is clearly being driven by many quarters of the media that chose sides in the election and were very upfront about it and haven't changed," Republican consultant Keith Appell told Reuters.
3. Most significantly: "Democratic Leaders Try to Slow Calls to Impeach Trump."
“No one ought to, in my view, rush to embrace the most extraordinary remedy that involves the removal of the president from office,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the sober-minded senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. He warned that Democrats should not let their actions “be perceived as an effort to nullify the election by other means.”...
The demands of the radicalized party base are being amplified by growing calls from a series of Democratic candidates for statewide office who, in an effort to outflank their primary rivals, have started clamoring for Mr. Trump’s impeachment....
Most congressional Democrats... [fear] the expectations of their base... which are outrunning what is feasible as long as Republicans control both chambers of Congress. The fear, Democratic officials say, is that they will invite the sort of backlash from their base that Republicans got for overpromising about what was possible while President Barack Obama was in office....
Party strategists fear that Democrats might sacrifice the moral and political high ground by appearing too eager... [and] overplaying their hand.
Posts
159 comments:
The Journolist memo has gone out. Yesterday Slate had something like a dozen impeachment articles; today they have all but vanished. Can you say President Mike Pence 2017–24?
The polling didn't come back to their liking...
Mueller will find sufficient evidence of criminal conduct by trump -prob unrelated to Russia -- that impeachment will be an easy call. My opinion.
Mueller will find sufficient evidence of criminal conduct by trump -prob unrelated to Russia -- that impeachment will be an easy call. My opinion.
Wishing won't make it so.
"The polling didn't come back to their liking..."
I'm guessing that's true, but a PPP poll released 2 days ago said 48% would support impeachment and 41% would not.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-poll-latest-majority-americans-remove-president-a7738891.html
Endangers the liberal agenda? Any concern for the country?
Polls? Are you kidding me with polls? After 2016?
Also, of all people, Dennis Kucinich is defending Trump!
steve uhr,
"Mueller will find sufficient evidence of criminal conduct by trump -prob unrelated to Russia -- that impeachment will be an easy call. My opinion."
Well, my opinion is that whatever he finds will be more than sufficient for people who decided before January 20 that Trump must be removed, who will yell, YOU SEE?; that nothing he could find would convince his core supporters, who will simply say he was part of the establishment and the establishment was always going to get Trump; and that he won't find anything clear-cut enough to sway a clear majority of those somewhere in the middle.
Mueller will find sufficient evidence of criminal conduct by trump -prob unrelated to Russia.
The Clinton investigation was initiated over a backwoods land deal, but eventually a cigar and blue dress proved more compelling.
Ppp that's funny, Shirley, but they can roll a molehill into a mountain.
Liberal agenda, conservative agenda, why not try for an American agenda? Put country before Party for once. Pence isn't safe either, he's been caught in several lies regarding knowing about Trump&associates/Russia contacts. We may end up with a President Ryan, but if more audio tapes come out with Ryan and his fellow House members discussing knowledge of Trump/Russia contacts, Ryan's not safe either. Seems like a lot of people knew about the Trump&associates/Russia connections and closed their eyes to it, hoping they could get their man in the White House, so that they could enact their Republican agenda. Didn't quite work out for them, did it? This entire thing stinks to high heaven and hopefully Special Counsel Mueller can get to the bottom of it.
Are you kidding me with polls?
Did they get it wrong or did the narrative presented fail in achieving the desired outcome? Anyways, pols still think they mean something.
-We demand an investigation to Impeach Trump.
-We really don't want to Impeach Trump, as that would be very bad for the country. After all, we're all Patriots.
-What's that? The investigation revealed Trump imported Vodka from Russia in 2004 and "mis-remembered", now we have to Impeach him? That's too bad...awful for the country, but investigations follow the facts.
Now we have to move forward and unite the country. That's what we do, Patriots and all.
Alan Durshwitz (ok I murdered the spelling)is no fan of Trumps and he said nothing to Impeach him for.
I worry more about the so called Republicans like McCain, McConnell and Graham. They would love to see Trump fall and Damn the Consequence.
Well considering there is a YouTube video of Comey testifying UNDER OATH that the White House HAVE NOT interfere in any investigation, the media had no choice but tto realize this is a bridge to nowhere.
Here's Nate on PPP: in 2012, the racial composition of PPP’s polls was correlated in an unusual way with President Obama’s performance among white voters in their surveys. If Obama was performing especially poorly among whites in one PPP poll, it tended to have a higher share of nonwhite voters, which boosted Obama’s result. And if Obama was doing relatively well among whites, PPP projected less nonwhite turnout, keeping his lead in check. As a result, PPP’s polls tended to show an unusually steady race between Obama and Mitt Romney.
I’m picking on PPP for a reason: They’re the biggest herders in the business.
Not that anyone still believes Nate.
Inga said...
"This entire thing stinks to high heaven and hopefully Special Counsel Mueller can get to the bottom of it."
Inga, have you considered the possibility that what you are smelling is that thing on your head?
Donald Trump's taxes are no doubt incredibly complex, with countless judgment calls by accountants and lawyers that may be called into question by a prosecutor looking to justify his investigation.
"We may end up with a President Ryan, but if more audio tapes come out with Ryan and his fellow House members discussing knowledge of Trump/Russia contacts, Ryan's not safe either."
President Orrin Hatch then.
No, it would be good for the country to impeach Trump, to proceed with this criminal investigation into the Trump& Assoc./ Russia connections. This is still the USA, not a satellite of Russia. If Democrats in DC chicken out doing the right thing, they aren't worth voting for either, despite any liberal agenda.
"Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the sober-minded senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee"
Haw,haw,haw!! Tommy Smothers look alike who wants to be somebody some day.
Inga,
"if more audio tapes come out with Ryan and his fellow House members discussing knowledge of Trump/Russia contacts, Ryan's not safe either. Seems like a lot of people knew about the Trump&associates/Russia connections and closed their eyes to it,"
Try this thought experiment. Let's say I post here that we have two commenters I'm convinced are in the pay of Uzbeks: Laslo Spatula and Inga. They embarrass me. They constantly take but never give.
(Laslo rolls with it.)
Now let's say that some people who really object to your presence here start besieging Althouse to ban you because we just can't be too careful about Uzbek infiltration and subversion.
Now clearly, I knew about you all along yet I said nothing. I'm probably not safe here, right?
"Most congressional Democrats... [fear] the expectations of their base... which are outrunning what is feasible as long as Republicans control both chambers of Congress."
Ha! No shit, Sherlock! To impeach the President requires a majority in the Senate. And to remove him from office requires a majority in the House. And the Democrats do not have either one. What they do have is a base at least 80% of whom are completely unaware of both of those facts.
Ann Althouse said...
I'm guessing that's true, but a PPP poll released 2 days ago said 48% would support impeachment and 41% would not.
This is just about the best the Dems can do in this situation. A president that a majority of the public would be happy to see impeached greatly weakens the Red Team. If they could keep everything dialed in at this level they will have managed the Trump era relatively well, largely thanks to a yuge assist from the man himself. Given that it is the Dems, however, they will no doubt now screw this up. Obviously they do not want Pence.
This is my hobby horse. The establishment is going to make an example of Trump as a lesson to other politicians who may want to rise by threatening Wall Street, rich donors, and the government class.
They will either impeach Trump or cripple him and his agenda as much as possible. We'll except for huge tax cuts for the rich and corporations. And billions more for defense and intelligence.
You either defend Trump against this nonsense or you are helping the .1%>
AReasonableMan:
"A president that a majority of the public would be happy to see impeached greatly weakens the Red Team."
Fortunately Team Blue is much too patriotic to want such a thing at the expense of the country, right?
They went after his personal life. They went after his business life. They went after his political life. And the baby hunts came up with only witches (dead Soviets, Nigerian Phishers, and disenfranchised Democrat factions). Trump is viable and the Democrat/establishment's Choice for a Planned abortion is not. They will have to learn to tolerate the baby, no matter how inconvenient or unwanted he may be to their special and peculiar individual and collective interests.
Another indication the second-thoughts-on-impeachment memo has gone out to liberals: Slate’s Dahlia Lithwick, the primary purveyor of Constitutional Schemes to Rid the Country of Trump by Any Means Necessary, is suddenly saying things are more complex than she’d led us to believe.
"To impeach the President requires a majority in the Senate. And to remove him from office requires a majority in the House."
You might want to check those facts.
Earnest Prole:
Honest question: Is there a new JournoList, or are we just witnessing the Herd of Independent Minds in action? How would we tell?
Blogger Inga said..."No, it would be good for the country to impeach Trump..."
And, for the good of the country, mind you, who should should be installed as President?
JPS said...
Fortunately Team Blue is much too patriotic to want such a thing at the expense of the country, right?
They would view minimizing the damage that Trump can do as the patriot thing to do.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels." - Samuel Johnson
Prediction: Manafort--hired in March 2016 and fired by Trump in August--2016 will have had some dealings with Ukrainians (already reported when Trump fired him) and Michael Flynn--fired by Trump after two weeks--will have had some dealings with Turks in 2016 and 2017.
Mildly embarrassing and quickly corrected in each case. This whole "Russia" thing is being stirred up by losers in the Dem party and losers in the MSM.
Sad.
ARM:
"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels." - Samuel Johnson
"With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I submit that it is the first." - Ambrose Bierce
"And, for the good of the country, mind you, who should should be installed as President?"
Why, Dr. Jill Stein of course.
They got a special counsel appointed, so they won this round. That was probably the deal, we'll shut up for a while if you allow a special counsel to be appointed. Now they wait to see what the special counsel digs up. Most likely someone with a past association with Trump will get prosecuted for something or other. Then they go from there.
"We have to get to the bottom of this"
Jill Stein made $7 Million uttering this phrase. Liberals intend to make history with this phrase.
What "this" is, is a placeholder, yet to be determined.
No, it's still around it's just metastasized like the blob.
Getting Comey replaced by Mueller was good. Comey also interned in the election, so having him investigate Russian interference was like putting one of two suspects in a murder in charge of the homicide unit.
When the Special Prosecutor's criminal investigation into the Trump/Russia connection is completed and there is sufficient evidence to prove Trump engaged in criminal activity, he will be impeached. Democrats and Republicans both will have to do their duty and if they don't, they'll face the consequences by the American people. I'm not worried that they aren't smart enough to realize this.
Imagine my surprise to see Meade mentioned Jill Stein after I posted my comment.
Imagine the Country's surprise that "Russians hacked the election, and we need to get to the bottom of this" is still going on.
Okay, does this indicate that we are at stage 3 of the grieving process: bargaining? "We won't push our hopes into ridiculous territory so please, someone, make Trump go away" I don't think we are anywhere near acceptance yet, but we certainly have seen the anger and denial phases for the last 4 months. Those who voted for Trump are apparently still standing fast; the Russia nonsense is about to get put in a box; and btw Hillary may get dragged back into this mess (after all didn't the Russkies hack the DNC servers as part of the nefarious plot that Mueller is looking into?) . Maybe it would be a good idea for the Dems to tone things down for a while. I don't see the Dems in Red States gaining any ground by pummeling Trump. If nothing else they are going to get a bunch of pissed off Republican voters headed to the polls in 2018.
While the MSM sticks its head where the sun don't shine Trump heads to Saudi for a big welcome after a good visit from Erdogan; from there to Israel where he will get another warm welcome ; then on to a Nato meeting where I'll bet people will be paying close attention to what he has to say; the FCC just killed the regulation of the Net as a utility; Trump's about to submit an aggressive growth budget; the Senate is working on its health bill; the Congress has been notified that re-negotiations for NAFTA open soon; discussions on tax reform continue; the new Education department budget favors charter schools; the Dakota Access pipeline is complete and working; Gorsuch is still on the Supreme Court and Clinton is not president. Not bad!
Inga,
"I'm not worried that they aren't smart enough to realize this."
Are you at all worried your analysis is skewed by your intense desire for the result?
Party strategists fear that Democrats might sacrifice the moral and political high ground by appearing too eager... [and] overplaying their hand."
Can't sacrifice what you don't have.
Inga, who should be President after Trump is impeached?
This chatter of impeachment ignores one rather big factor: the 62 million (49.5% of the voting population) that voted for Trump.
What the news & the talking heads say doesn't matter anymore to these people. They have stopped listening, having given the media up as hopelessly biased. They don't listen to the politicians, Democrats, or especially to the Republicans who they feel have back-stabbed Trump, & to what gain (e.g. John McCain)?
If Trump is removed from office, don't expect a sizable minority of this 62 million people to go "Oh, we've got Pence, we're good". No, it's going to be "We played by the rules & won the election fair & square. Now, our electoral choice is getting subverted by a coastal cabal who works against our interests & despises us. We have 300 million guns among us. It's time to consider using them."
Do a see chance of civil war? Not per se. Do I see the rise of an right-wing armed resistance that would, like the FARC in Columbia, hold land in sympathetic states against the federal government? Yes, I do.
I see lefty fuckwits like the protestors at Berkeley holding banners that say "This is war" & I think "Be real careful what you wish for, assholes. You just might get it.".
"Are you at all worried your analysis is skewed by your intense desire for the result?"
If Trump is proven to have engaged in criminal activity, he will be radioactive. There will be very few Republicans willing to stay on his sinking ship. It's human nature, has nothing to do with my own desires.
You know what, lefties? Go for it. Take him down if you can. You know why? Cuz you made a n***** out of him.
You've been treating Trump like a n***** since 2016 and loving it like the sociopolitical bigots you are. Smelling your own farts and flopsweat under your ideological robes and PC hoods and getting high off it.
But you keep forgetting that he is President N*****. Donald Trump is President of the United States! When you strike at a king you must kill him.
If you leave Trump in power I can't imagine what he's going to do to you. He who betrays DJT and leaves him alive, he knows nothing about Trump. Nothing!
YH, Soon.
Party strategists fear that Democrats might sacrifice the moral and political high ground by appearing too eager... [and] overplaying their hand.
Democrats? Political and moral high ground? They're completely delusional. Don't know what medications they're on, but they're obviously ineffective.
They would view minimizing the damage that Trump can do as the patriot thing to do.
Spoken like a John Wilkes Booth!
For the good of the country, Inga, who should be President post-Trump?
The term is irbM paramilitaries, the tag since Brazil's OBAN has been 'death squads' as if guerillas were puppy squads
One hopes it doesn't come to that. It was Carlosarighelas coco theory to try to topple the generals, that prompted that escalation by 1969, he was dead. The guerillas tried in Guatemala, Uruguay Chile and Argentina with much the same result.
The Dems have two objectives: (a) grow the government to redistribute wealth and (b) obtain political power to do (a).
Impeaching Trump won't happen, unless they win the House and get 2/3 in the Senate. And then they get President Pence.
So, impeaching ain't really doable and ain't such a good idea.
They want to gin up fear, anxiety, doubt and chaos to win a few political victories. The don't give a rat's ass about Russia, or Comey or American greatness or anything except the will to power. So, screw 'me.
Within a year this Russia and impeachment talk will look insane. Flynn gets nailed for a minor reporting violation. That's it.
Blogger sy1492 said...
Well considering there is a YouTube video of Comey testifying UNDER OATH that the White House HAVE NOT interfere in any investigation, the media had no choice but to{sp} realize this is a bridge to nowhere.
Well, building bridges not walls is the order of the day.
Mueller can take this anywhere he wants. Fact is, the fate of the Republic rests in his hands.
Once again, appointed, unelected officials usurping the authority of Trump as President.
From lawful Executive Orders to forcing his Attorney General into recusal, it's clear to me the establishment will not allow Trump to be President.
steve uhr said...
Mueller will find sufficient evidence of criminal conduct by trump -prob unrelated to Russia -- that impeachment will be an easy call. My opinion.
And right here we see evidence of Democrat delusion. President Trump was the most thoroughly vetted candidate in history, period, not just modern history. Journalists scoured every record and looked to turn over every stone they could find to destroy his candidacy. Well, that is, once he got the Republican nomination, which is what they wanted. Why did they want it? Because he was easily the most easily defeatable candidate running in the Republican primary! Up until he won.
And in their continued frenzy to find something, anything, to destroy him with, all they've got is innuendo and hearsay, no evidence of anything. Meantime, there's more then enough evidence to indict and try Hillary for violation of numerous statutes concerning the handling of classified material. Neatly laid out by Comey in a press conference. Note- she didn't get an immunity deal. And further note- Obama didn't pardon her on his way out the door.
Inga?
Marighela, btw guess which genius decided to adopt his tactics state side, bill Ayers, had that bomb gone off at ft dix he would have been ground down within a year.
Inga, 9:14:
"If Trump is proven to have engaged in criminal activity, he will be radioactive. There will be very few Republicans willing to stay on his sinking ship. It's human nature, has nothing to do with my own desires."
Thank you. One last question for now. Are you familiar with the original meaning of "begging the question"? (Before the majority decided it means, "This begs for the following question to be asked"?)
Now why do I recite ancient history becausoccupy and the antifa movement was where sds was then.
The Dimms have lost their. Minds. Unless they get on board the Trump train and speak truth on what we all know they have lied through their teeth about for 30 years, they will wither away.
DJT only has one viable enemy, which is composed of the GOP leadership in Congress and the Deep State operators composed of FBI, CIA and NSA teams dedicated to control power in DC by using slush funds, paedophile blackmail threats, creative slander by unnamed sources, and wet work .
This entire thing stinks to high heaven and hopefully Special Counsel Mueller can get to the bottom of it.
I assume this refers to the insanity of a major political party that used to be viable in elections.
This is a suicide mission by the Democrats and Inga and ARM are riding the tiger,
Trump will not be impeached. He might be assassinated. The angry left has been terrorist before.
The pansy "pajama boys" should be careful what they wish for.
Meade said...
"To impeach the President requires a majority in the Senate. And to remove him from office requires a majority in the House."
You might want to check those facts.
Hey, let's rate it the Snopes way. Partially true. Because you certainly can't do it with a minority.... And just because it's backwards, well, hey, no ones perfect.
Mayhaps we should teach civics in school again. Or require all students to earn the BSA Merit Badge Citizenship in the Nation or the equivalent as a requirement for HS graduation.
Somebody needs to get to the bottom of why Inga won't respond. It's torture.
We can't live, with or without her..
Meade said...
"You might want to check those facts."
No, I would prefer not to. No one else should, either.
Mistakes were made. It's time to put it behind us and move on.
Browndog: "Somebody needs to get to the bottom of why Inga won't respond. It's torture. We can't live, with or without her."
Take your pick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWP8ObrPa1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmSdTa9kaiQ
Inga said...
When the Special Prosecutor's criminal investigation into the Trump/Russia connection is completed and there is sufficient evidence to prove Trump engaged in criminal activity, he will be impeached. Democrats and Republicans both will have to do their duty and if they don't, they'll face the consequences by the American people. I'm not worried that they aren't smart enough to realize this.
5/18/17, 9:08 PM
I feel smart after reading that comment.
Trump will not be impeached. He might be assassinated. The angry left has been terrorist before.
If Trump is Impeached, I'm afraid we'll see political assassinations beyond what we saw in the 1960's.
There are those on the right just as angry, and the old metrics no longer apply to the younger generation. Politicians, life in general, are not as valued as they once were.
Worse, there is no voice that I'm aware of that is shouting "STOP! This business will get out of control"
Drago said...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmSdTa9kaiQ
This is the one I had in mind.
The lust for Fake Inga's attention here is puzzling, but who am I?
Browndog: "The lust for Fake Inga's attention here is puzzling, but who am I?"
Why so philosophical?
If Trump is Impeached, I'm afraid we'll see political assassinations beyond what we saw in the 1960's.
He won't be impeached. Not even Republicans are that stupid.
The assassinations will be the substitute,
However, leftists are not very efficient at anything but talk.
Only pieces of Terry Robbins were found, one in a backhoe scoop.
Hey Inga. Who should the country install as President post-Trump?
Where'd she go? She was here a second ago.
I think all of the quoted analysis is quite right, and I'll simply add a follow on.
If you think America's political problems are bad because we have a president you don't like, wait until not liking a president becomes reason enough to impeach him.
Everything that happens is a precedent for letting it happen again. The last thing we want to spread is the idea that elections can be overturned by people having second thoughts -- or by sufficiently motivated losers.
"Party strategists fear that Democrats might sacrifice the moral and political high ground by appearing too eager... [and] overplaying their hand." "Might'? I'd say they blew any claim to the moral high ground 17 years ago, and the political high ground November 8th.
Is there a new JournoList, or are we just witnessing the Herd of Independent Minds in action?
The latter, as far as I know. In the old days journalists were harder to herd, hence the need for Journolist. Now they are pretty easily held to the party line through twitter ridicule.
He will not be impeached but will be stained and down graded perhaps beyond what Trump can endure standing in the shadow of Pence.
This talk of assassinations is not worthy of the comments on this board and sinks to the level of Alex Jones --the peddler in propaganda and lies.
Let's be clear, the talk of impeachment has nothing to do with the case for impeachment, much less that most of the people calling for it don't know what that is. This is simply the reaction to Hillary losing. They relied on her inevitability while ignoring her udder incompetence as a candidate. In the era of Facebook level (shallow, echo chamber) political insight the simplistic notion of impeachment is as well thought out as a frowning face emoticon.
There are some interesting historical parallels,linked therein
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2017/05/18/no-clear-winner-but-one-clear-loser/
Inga said...
"Are you at all worried your analysis is skewed by your intense desire for the result?"
If Trump is proven to have engaged in criminal activity, he will be radioactive. There will be very few Republicans willing to stay on his sinking ship. It's human nature, has nothing to do with my own desires.
5/18/17, 9:14 PM
Here's a thought. All the leftist nitwits are from here forward forbidden from using the "if its proven Trump...
The deep state has been sifting through all of Trumps dealings. They already have all of his financials, already cataloged all of his communications, for the last 10 years. Ditto for all of his associates, back to 6 degrees of separation. There is nothing there. How do I know this? Because the deep state and the media are forced to use anonymous sources to fling poo at the President. If facts existed, they would have trickled out by now.
The other thing that never made sense to me, is what would motivate the President to have Russian interests? He's about ROI. I dont see the risk benefit ratio working at all towards any goal the President might have ie Russia.
"udder" fat baggy teats
@Roesch,
This talk of assassinations is not worthy of the comments on this board and sinks to the level of Alex Jones --the peddler in propaganda and lies.
What?! Do you think it's we here who have invented this talk of assassination? Such talk is common coinage on the far Left now, as it often was under Bush. Do you think I was exaggerating when I spoke of that banner at Berkeley that said "This is war"? I most certainly was not.
Far too many on the moderate left deny the violence of the far Left until they become its victims. It has ever been so.
The media were able to destroy the LBJ and Nixon presidencies because, to a large extent, the public shared their antipathy towards those Presidents. No such luck with Reagan and the Bushes. Outside of the committed partisans, people just didn't dislike them enough...... Trump is vulnerable. He's not an exemplary figure, and people can be made to hate him. He is subject to near unrelenting mockery by all branches of the entertainment industry. Because of the lead time, the scripted series have not yet had a chance to pummel him, but give it time. We'll see how it plays out. If Trump gets impeached, it will not be because of high crimes and misdemeanors but because the news and entertainment people have finally devised a way to get the American public to share their Trump hatred.
He will not be impeached but will be stained and down graded perhaps beyond what Trump can endure standing in the shadow of Pence.
Keep hoping against hope, pajama boy.
Michael K said...
I could pick your brain all day and all night. Many people read Althouse, few comment.
From your comments to your recommended books, I find you a rare treasure of wisdom.
Just wanted you to know that some appreciate you.
Carry on, and keep fighting the good fight.
-David
"Here's a thought. All the leftist nitwits are from here forward forbidden from using the "if its proven Trump..."
That would render Inga mute (which she appears to have become).
As I said before, Trump was the most thorougly vetted candidate in the U.S., ever. Journalists uncovered every stone and searched every nook and cranny to find something that would bring him down and came up with Nada! The few women they came up with to testify that he harassed them had less credibility then the women with rape accusations against liberal Democrat hero Bill Clinton. And right now, every single person on the face of the Earth with one or more functioning neurons knows that if they came forward with credible evidence linking Trump to a crime, any crime, including picking his toes in Poughkeepsi, could retire for life on what Democrats or Soros would pay him or her. And- no one is coming forward. No one. With that kind of payday dangling out there, at least one person would be saying- "Hey, I want it! The golden ring is MINE!"
The only way anyone is going to come up with evidence that Trump is guilty of anything criminal is to make it up. Trouble for the Trump haters is, at this point, how will they also make it credible? Get it from the Russians? The American people would laugh. Get it from the Chinese? it's more likely they have stuff on Clinton. get it from the NSA? Well, it would already have been leaked in toto if they had it. There's nothing for them to find.
I've got to wonder if a FBI team assisted by the military were to land on Epstein's private island, thoroughly search all nooks and crannies and safe and computers for videos and pictures, who would they find doing what? There's certainly enough evidence to obtain a search warrant.
Inga said "Liberal agenda, conservative agenda, why not try for an American agenda?"
Bizarro world.
But hey Inga, I'm on board with the suggestion. Let's start with supporting our lawfully elected President so he is in a better position to solve our domestic and foreign problems. Deal?
"He warned that Democrats should not let their actions 'be perceived as an effort to nullify the election by other means.'"
Well, they're perceived that way because that's exactly what they are. The Democrats have been floating extraordinary, often downright goofy ways to nullify the election and what they've mainly accomplished is convincing the right half of the country that they are spoiled brats.
I wish Trump were not president (though not enough to wish Mrs. Clinton was, by a long ways), but I see far more danger to the country in efforts to tell people that because their vote was stupid it shouldn't count, than in Trump's term playing out. I would call it ironic that the Democrats who see fascism around every corner would be the ones sawing off the limb democracy sits on, them included, but we're way past irony in this society...
"...Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the sober-minded (sic) senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. He warned that Democrats should not let their actions “be perceived as an effort to nullify the election by other means.”...
By, you know, invalidating the entire Republican leadership and suggesting a Democrat should be installed President.
The former rapist-in-chief blew up Impeachment. He didn't leave, why should The Donald?
Especially since the vile Progs loved working with the Bear in the 80s, telling the Bear to just ignore Ray-Gun, they'll cut the deals and Barry had more "flexibility" after the 2012 election.
We are killing them by fracking. The ChiComs are colonizing them. They are dying.
What's the big deal?
"Most congressional Democrats... [fear] the expectations of their base... which are outrunning what is feasible as long as Republicans control both chambers of Congress."
Mark Levin made an important observation the other evening. The Democrats obey their base, while the Republicans loathe theirs.
What's Trump guilty of, besides beating Hillary? Being misled by Michael Flynn about his call with a Russian ambassador?
24/7/365 Snowmageddon reporting.
Most of the country will tune out cos it's summer.
No one cares.
Impeachment is as simple as a vote on the House floor.
Grounds for Impeachment are decided by those that vote on the House floor.
To me, between every Democrat--NeverTrumper--political coward--bought and/or threatened politician--leaves a margin of error that should make everyone very nervous.
This is no longer about Impeaching a President. It's about Impeaching Trump.
Personalized. Just like Alinsky taught us.
This whole thing can go sideways real quick.
The "no way Trump can get elected" faction may have a lesson in store for the "no way Trump can be Impeached" faction.
Blogger Inga said...
Liberal agenda, conservative agenda, why not try for an American agenda? Put country before Party for once.
\
But inga. You don't like this country. You depise half the people in it and the constitution embodies it.
"Liberal agenda, conservative agenda, why not try for an American agenda?"
An American agenda that focuses on the desires of non-Americans.
Yeah, that'll prove popular. Go for it!
What crime, Inga? Be specific. You Lefties keep talking about "possible criminal activity" and making these vague, hand-wavy insinuations, but for the life of me I can't seem to get a straight answer: of what crime do you think Donald Trump is guilty?
Like...in the Whitewater scandal, people said it looked like the Clintons and their associates were guilty of fraud, and that should be investigated. Right? So I keep hearing "collusion with the Russians" but I don't know what specific crime you think occurred. For a while you guys were talking about the Logan Act but the smart people seem to have agreed that Logan Act violations aren't really a problem...so let's hear it.
"Oh, we don't know, we can't say, we've got to get to the bottom of it before we can be specific" is obvious bullshit.
What crime, Inga? Be specific.
She doesn't like him; He's not Hillary. That is his crime.
You're not wrong, Browndog, but one would hope elected officials have given some thought to what would come next.
I read Douthat's NYT OpEd and tweets. I hope he is not representative, but it really seems like a lot of self-identified Elites (mostly NeverTrumpers I think) have decided that imposing their will on the country--institutions, norms, and considerations for the feelings of huge numbers of non-Elites be damned--is the correct and just thing to do.
Now, I didn't vote for Trump: not in the primary and not in the general. His stated beliefs do not much overlap with mine, and even where they do I mostly doubt his sincerity and/or ability to accomplish the goal we seem to agree on. In the abstract I do not feel much compulsion to stick up for Trump the person or Trumpism (whatever that actually is).
But I gotta say: if somehow Douthat gets his way I think I would feel a duty to make sure Douthat et al. pay a personal price. They are basically calling for an overthrow--for a revolution. There is no way out current governing system--weak as its devotion to the actual Constitution is--would survive such an event, in any meaningful way. In that chaos I think I would have to support extreme personal consequences for people like Douthat, I really would.
The Ingas of the world are just partisans--they're willing to abuse the rules to "win" but really they just want their politicians to be in charge--as long as they win elections they're fine with using the system as is, so their calls to abuse the rules a bit in response to losing elections is in a way understandable.
Douthat (and company), though, is arguing that the rules should be set aside or ignored and their own judgement should govern. He's using the pretense of the 25th amendment but ultimately his argument is that the system allowed Trump and therefore the system is fatally flawed and so should be set aside in order to correct the (President Trump) outcome Douthat and co. do not accept.
He had better hope his exhortations fail. If they succeed, what comes after...will not be pleasant.
Inga has obviously retired to her "safe space" for the rest of the night.
Facts: Ewwww!
Arguments: Ick!
Differing world views: Stamp them out! Bad! Bad! BAD!
Somewhere in a basement, air thick with patchouli, a snowflake paints a sign of prescient open-minded conviction:
"Impeach Pence"
bagoh20 said...Somewhere in a basement, air thick with patchouli, a snowflake paints a sign of prescient open-minded conviction:
IIRC, Inga lives in a stately lakeside manor in Walkershau Co, WI.
Blogger Browndog said...
Imagine my surprise to see Meade mentioned Jill Stein after I posted my comment.
Meade was taking a dig at Inga from an earlier thread where she said she voted for Jill Stein.
the Democrats have already written off their working class base, who might have voted for Bernie so they could get their jobs back from overseas.
Inga said...
No, it would be good for the country to impeach Obama, to proceed with this criminal investigation into the Obama& Assoc./ Iran connections. This is still the USA, not a satellite of the caliphate. If Republicans in DC chicken out doing the right thing, they aren't worth voting for either, despite any conservative agenda.
FIFY
There is actual evidence of collusion with Iran. There is also more evidence of democrat collusion with Russia than there is of Trump.
But keep on pretending you give 2 shits about this country. There are as close to zero veterans on your side as it gets. It is obviously a pretense. You are awful people.
The problem for the Democrats here is that the Democrats can't impeach Trump, and Democrats actively calling for impeachment actually hurts the cause of impeachment. At least smart Democrats are realizing this, maybe a bit belatedly, but it is happening.
To impeach Trump, enough Republicans in the House have to be convinced to impeach him, and the only way that can happen given the evidence before us is convince them that impeachment and Pence are better than no impeachment and Trump. Believe me, if you get enough Republicans in the House on board to pass an article of impeachment, Trump will get removed by the Senate. So what you are seeing in the sudden calls for decorum on the Left is the attempt to convince those needed Republicans that impeachment is good for them. It is the Br'er Rabbit strategy.
I doubt there are enough stupid Republicans in the House to fall for this, but it is actually hard to lose by underestimating House Republicans. I will only say this- if they impeach Trump, they will lose the House and Senate in 2018, and get buried in 2020.
Here's my prediction. Claims that Trump is "unfit" for office will not carry the day, even if they are true. He's no more unfit today than he was the day before the election and his manifold personality flaws were widely known then, and so cannot be grounds for removing him from the office to which he was duly elected. The only way Trump can be impeached or forced to resign will be if clear and convincing evidence is presented that he committed some felony crime related to his presidency. Any GOP congressman or senator who votes to impeach for less than that will never hold elected office again, which is why they won't do that. To date no evidence, let alone clear and convincing evidence, has been presented that Trump has committed any felony crime, but I suppose anything is possible no matter how unlikely.
I'd like to see every Democrat hit by a high-speed train. But we don't have money for those, yet.
Trump is off today, flying to the middle east to sell arms to the Saudis, a deal lined up by his son-in-law. So much for draining the Swamp. The Swamp will calm down and get used to having him around.
Adam Schiff is sober minded????
mmmmmmok
"Impeach Pence"
Pence's staff is leaking hard to the journalists this morning.
What a mess we're in.
Ann Althouse said...
I'm guessing that's true, but a PPP poll released 2 days ago said 48% would support impeachment and 41% would not.
This is just about the best the Dems can do in this situation. A president that a majority of the public would be happy to see impeached greatly weakens the Red Team. If they could keep everything dialed in at this level they will have managed the Trump era relatively well, largely thanks to a yuge assist from the man himself. Given that it is the Dems, however, they will no doubt now screw this up. Obviously they do not want Pence.
5/18/17, 8:53 PM
As sickening as this is, it is exactly right. And for now, at least, it's really all about the medterms. The strategy is to dial up the faux outrage to try to convince their base that they need to turn out and give the Dems majorities in Congress in order to unseat Trump.
It's sickening because of all the approaches that could have been taken, including working with Trump on areas of his agenda that clearly mesh with their own priorities (Trump is no conservative and there are many areas where there is overlap), the Democratic Party has chosen the one approach that is most harmful to our country's interests. It is clear that they don't really believe that impeachment is possible, and even more obvious that they do not really want it to happen because it only puts a more competent conservative in the Oval Office...but they are willing to create years of turmoil in an attempt to gain Congressional seats.
I will only say this- if [the Republicans] impeach Trump, they will lose the House and Senate in 2018, and get buried in 2020.
No, if the Republicans impeach Trump, the pro-Trump voters walk out and the Republicans cease to be a viable party. The Dems have so overplayed this that even were he guilty of a minor crime impeachment looks like a political hit job.
The Ingas and Maxine Waters of the world have made it more difficult to impeach Trump, not less. I suspect that's what the latest polling told the Dems.
"It's sickening because of all the approaches that could have been taken, including working with Trump on areas of his agenda that clearly mesh with their own priorities"
Trump has made no real effort to reach across the aisle. The first major piece of legislation he chose to focus on, health care, completely excluded Dems.
"said Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the sober-minded senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. He warned that Democrats should not let their actions “be perceived as an effort to nullify the election by other means.”..."
Yeah, what he said there is sober-minded but he's not usually a sober-minded Democrat, though maybe he's a good barometer.
True, Brooklzene, he should have followed Obama's stellar example of wooing the opposition party.
Bottom line is, each party's leadership chooses a strategy when they are in the minority and the opposing party holds the WH. The Democrats in this case have chosen to fight ugly, and they are being aided by the many people in NATSEC who reject Trump, and cheered on by the same in MSM.
This is the worst possible outcome for the country because it's forcing citizens to choose sides in. cold Civil War and because the methods being used to oppose Trump are antithetical to a functioning Democracy.
I suspect that things are about to get even more interesting. Mueller isn't as interesting here as Comey. I would much prefer Mueller in charge of the investigation into the fake Russian scandal. Comey, it turns out, was a Deep State player of some skill. Which has been known at least since his coup, grabbing control of the DoJ when AG Ashcroft was disabled at a critical time. He then used this to help Sen Schumer attack the nomination of Gonzales as AG (for which testimony, he likely got the FBI Directorship). And who put that all together you ask? One of his former AUSAs (and future USA under Obama for Comey's old SDNY office), Schumer staffer Preet Bharara, the same guy who sent D'Sousa to prison for better than half a year for $7,500 in illegal campaign contributions (minuscule in view of the millions of illegal contributions garnered by both Obama and Crooked Hillary), and the production of an anti-Obama documentary. And, maybe not so coincidentally, one of the few, along with his buddy Comey, whom Trump had to actually fire. Comey and Bharara are vicious, inside players, well skilled in the inside the beltway maneuvering, with close ties to even more vicious and skilled inside player Sen Minority Leader Schumer.
In the end, regardless of excuses and rationales, Trump fired Comey because he was part of the problem, and not part of the solution. And owed strong loyalties to members of the opposition, notably Schumer and Bharara. Indeed, some of the recent leaking very likely came from Bharara - who else was positioned to know the contents of Comey's memos? Obviously someone close to both Comey and the media. And that is where things may get interesting. Part of the symptoms of Comey playing for the Deep State and not Team Trump was his apparent refusal to go after the unmaskers and the leakers (who presumably include his buddy Bharara). Both the Administration and Congress were being stonewalled. Acting Dir McCade has apparently indicated that he will be more zealous here, and, I think that you can be certain that Comey's named successor will have to guarantee zealousness in order to get the nomination. I am pretty sure that both Trump and Sessions are expecting heads to mount here, and it isn't going to be pleasant for those in the FBI and the DoJ who have illegally leaked classified information for political advantage for years.
How does the Mueller appointment fit in here? Because it takes the pressure off the FBI and DoJ to investigate this fake scandal. Comey wasn't working to get it put to bed, because the scandal helped him powerwise. Whenever anyone brings it up, Trump, etc al can just refer them to Mueller and his investigation. Out of their hands, and let's get back to what is important- MAGA. Sure, Mueller could go off and make mountains out of molehills, but his age makes that much less likely. Which is why his appointment was a gamble, but maybe not a bad one.
"This is the worst possible outcome for the country because it's forcing citizens to choose sides in. cold Civil War"
I just think it's amazing you don't remember how Trump got here. You seem to be unaware of his deeply confrontational style. Okay.
"Trump has made no real effort to reach across the aisle. The first major piece of legislation he chose to focus on, health care, completely excluded Dems."
That's just not true. Early on Trump expressed his willingness to work with Chuck Schumer and even the ultra-liberal Elizabeth Warren said that she wanted to work with Trump but then The Dems decided on a different strategy and were all about resistance.
"but then The Dems decided on a different strategy and were all about resistance."
It wasn't the Dems who decided on a different strategy, it was Trump who reverted to his confrontational, caustic, divisive, go-it-alone style.
What particular opportunity did the Dems not follow up on?
"Sen. Elizabeth Warren extended an olive branch to President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday, offering to work with him on middle-class issues where the real-estate mogul rejected traditional Republican Party orthodoxy."
http://www.businessinsider.com/elizabeth-warren-donald-trump-trade-2016-11
lol dreams that seems to show Dems reaching out. You need to show how Dems failed to reciprocate a likewise effort from Trump.
Trump has said over and over that he wants to work with the Dems on healthcare, the infrastructure, he wants to work with the Dems to make America great again.
Does anyone believe that Trump doesn't want to be a successful president?
"lol dreams that seems to show Dems reaching out. You need to show how Dems failed to reciprocate a likewise effort from Trump."
Yes, that was Nov 10 and that is what I said but they changed to resistance.
Perpetual leftwing tantrum, lies, half-truths and butthurt = how you get more Trump.
Keep it up, a-holes.
Inga
When the Special Prosecutor's criminal investigation into the Trump/Russia connection is completed and there is sufficient evidence to prove Trump engaged in criminal activity, he will be impeached. Democrats and Republicans both will have to do their duty and if they don't, they'll face the consequences by the American people. I'm not worried that they aren't smart enough to realize this.
LOL!
Shorter Inga - "Scott Walker will be indicted any minute now."
"Trump has said over and over that he wants to work with the Dems on healthcare, the infrastructure, he wants to work with the Dems to make America great again.
"Does anyone believe that Trump doesn't want to be a successful president?"
Words, words, words! Fine words, but you need DEEDS to show you really want to work in a bipartisan manner (and America is already great IMO).
Of course Trumps wants to be successful. I want Trump to be successful. I'm not pushing for impeachment here. But Trump is his own worst enemy, and you should consider your confirmation bias that's getting in the way of seeing things a little clearly. JMO.
"But Trump is his own worst enemy, and you should consider your confirmation bias that's getting in the way of seeing things a little clearly. JMO."
Projection.
The challenge stands. Argue how Trump's efforts at bipartisan cooperation have been rebuffed, and it was the Dem's fault. I'm sure there are examples.
It's YOUR argument. You should support it.
The point here BZ is that Congressional members are not kindergarteners. People understand that politics is hardball and presidents can be tough, crass, and confrontational but still willing and able to make deals. Some Dems were responding to that as quoted by other commenters above; the Dem leadership though, has shut those attempts down in favor of delegitimization Trump.
The appointment of a special counsel who is focused on investigating criminal activity just kneecapped the ability of Congress to call witnesses and demand documents. There is no more TV time for them on the issue.
Hence, we now see Democrats "reaching across the aisle", otherwise they are out of the game entirely.
"It was a counterintelligence investigation before now, it seems to me now to be considered a criminal investigation," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) declared outside of the meeting.
"What does that mean for the Congress? I find it hard to subpoena records of somebody, like Mr. Flynn, who may be subject to a criminal investigation because he has a right not to incriminate himself," he told reporters. "As to Mr. Comey, the former director of the FBI, coming before the committee, if I were Mr. Mueller I would jealously guard the witness pool."
Rosenstein's decision to appoint former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel has been well-received by senators, though Graham said "there are a lot of people in that room who were shocked that when a special counsel has been appointed that Congress has limitations on what we can do."
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/2017/05/18/russia-probe-has-gone-from-counterintelligence-to-criminal-graham-says-after-rosenstein-briefing/
Compare and contrast to LBJ. He had to cultivate relationships with GOP because he faced opposition within his own party (Southern Democrats.)
I wasn't around then but knowing LBJs reputation somehow I don't imagine that these attempts involved tea parties at the WH. It was about mutual self interest, and the GOP saw that.
Imagine instead if the GOP had decided to delegitimize LBJ by starting a whisper campaign that he'd been involved in the Kennedy assasination.
Shorter Inga - "Scott Walker will be indicted any minute now."
5/19/17, 7:50 AM
Yeah, Inga's track record speaks for itself.
*Snicker*
Everyone knows Trump, Putin and Comey used mind control rays in the states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Florida and Michigan.
Leaked e-mails revealing what we already know about Hillary and the DNC - that they are manipulative control freak money-grubbing political whores - plus all that Putin-Trump mind control - that's what ended it for poor Hillary. Because really, she was on her way.
What whisper campaign? The one where Barack Obama was Tapping Donald Trump? How do you think Dems are going to react to that kind of unprecedented, unsupported accusation? A big chorus of "Let's Work Together"?
I think bipartisan cooperation would be fine, but Trump needs to start acting Presidential if he wants that. If you come in as a President who's there to break things rather than fix things, you need to take responsibility for the lack of cooperation. Especially if you are as confrontational and inept as Trump.
What whisper campaign? The one where Barack Obama was Tapping Donald Trump? How do you think Dems are going to react to that kind of unprecedented, unsupported accusation? A big chorus of "Let's Work Together"?
The whisper campaign started with Hillarys loss and the decision to blame Russian collusion. The stage was set for this well before the election and was slowly rolled out.
Obama directly wiretapping Trump tower is likely untrue (like most of Trump's claims- stated very inaccurately but centering on something that is true, much like the Dan Rather "fake but accurate"claims, and no, I'm not ok with either side doing this, just stating what is obviously the case with Trump and how it makes no sense to react to him as though he is speaking lawyerly.)
But unethical surveillance techniques really did explode under the Obama administration, and its important that people realize the danger of the weaponization of the NATSEC apparatus for domestic political purposes. Don't take Trump' word for it, listen to Dennis Kucinich. Or Ron Wyden or Rand Paul if you prefer. Or journalists James Rosen and Sheryl Attkisson.
Impeachment really hurt Bill Clinton. He only got two terms.
Seems I recall Schummer said he would work with the POTUS on common interests. Seems like his apartment was surrounded by loonies howling that he had better NOT show any signs of cooperation.
"Resist we much".
"it makes no sense to react to him as though he is speaking lawyerly."
One point here - Trump is not a special snowflake and I personally hold him to the same standards I hold Dan Rather, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Charles Krauthammer or any other political player.
It's not a matter of "speaking lawyerly." It's a matter of being coherent and clear, which is extremely important for the President of the United States, particularly if he is using his (our) office to make allegations. If he said "I misspoke, here's what I meant to say..." he gets slack. But that's not Trump. Trump never accepts responsibility.
One point here - Trump is not a special snowflake and I personally hold him to the same standards I hold Dan Rather, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Charles Krauthammer or any other political player.
I can and do hold him responsible. I don't like the way he speaks so sloppily.
However, like it or not, Trump was duly elected POTUS. Many other people did not mind his style, and others minded but decided it wasn't worse than the alternative.
It is possible to acknowledge that it's problematic to use hyperbole all of the time and to also accept that voters elected a man who speaks this way and it's incumbent on us to interpret his remarks in the context of what we already know is true of his style.
In other words, Rather, Krauthammer and other journalists can be ignored if we think they aren't accurate and we choose to hold them to that standard. POTUS cannot.
Respect for your argument. I'm not won over but I get it.
I think we only disagree as to how much slack we should cut him. I think you are asking for a lot of slack but I think you are right some slack might be due him, particularly in regard to those Americans who voted for him.
Kurt Schlichter: what is really go on:
"The blizzard of lies and distraction blowing through Washington is not just any routine stuffstorm, but a calculated attempt to bring down a president – our president, not the establishment’s president. And more than that, it’s an attempt to ensure that we never again have the ability to disrupt the bipartisan D.C. cabal’s permanent supremacy by inserting a chief executive who refuses to kiss their collective Reid. This is a coup against us. It’s a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us. We need to fight it, here and now, so we don’t have to fight it down at the bottom of this slippery slope."
I appreciate your response, Brookzene.
Obama didn't accept responsibility either, so it's just the SOS.
One persons deeply confrontational style is not another's style.
Please refresh my memory on what Obama said.
If it was OK then, it's OK now.
The left is not only calling for impeachment but Resistance, street riots, deep state noncompliance with the laws. They want impeachment merely for someone TALKING to Russians without any actual crime. They give talks suggesting assassination and bombing the white house. Judges are openly abrogating their duties by suggesting that Trumps immigration pause (not ban) is illegal only because of his feelings about muslims--which of course is something he never said. That is, they want a revolution because they did not get their way. This is not a group of civilized people any more. They are not patriots and do not love this country. The are violent and have lost their minds.
Brookzene said...
The challenge stands. Argue how Trump's efforts at bipartisan cooperation have been rebuffed, and it was the Dem's fault. I'm sure there are examples.
5/19/17, 7:57 AM
Well, in the way of olive branches, Trump offered not to prosecute Hillary Clinton, at the risk of disappointing his base, which would love to be seeing her in prison.
In terms of bipartisan policy, part of his campaign was to rebuild infrastructure, which Democratic constituencies might be expected to favor, including the inner cities comma which other Democratic constituencies might be expecting to vigorously favor.
You're angry at yourselves because you blew it. You could have stroked him and got on his good side and got at least half a loaf. But no, you decided to go after him with broken bottles.
I'm waiting, Brookzene. Do I have to crowd you into slapping leather?
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