Althouse: "For more than 100 years, the Boy Scouts of America... have ultimately deferred to the information on an individual’s birth certificate to determine eligibility for our single-gender programs."

January 30, 2017

"For more than 100 years, the Boy Scouts of America... have ultimately deferred to the information on an individual’s birth certificate to determine eligibility for our single-gender programs."

"However, that approach is no longer sufficient as communities and state laws are interpreting gender identity differently, and these laws vary widely from state to state."

89 comments:

David Begley said...: I was a Cub and Boy Scout. This is insane.; 1/30/17, 8:47 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Insane is the word. This is a mental illness which is being treated as if the imagined condition were real. It's like believing that you were a bird and having the surgeon sew on wings.

It's incredibly cruel. This is an eight-year-old boy (?) I heard about on the radio? There's no such thing as an eight-year-old transsexual. Should be taken away from his/her parents.; 1/30/17, 8:53 PM
The Godfather said...: By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.; 1/30/17, 8:54 PM
Che Dolf said...: The 19th Amendment has been a disaster.; 1/30/17, 8:57 PM
n.n said...: They may as well let the girls join. Same difference.; 1/30/17, 9:06 PM
JackWayne said...: Goodby Girl Scouts. Goodbye girls sports. I hope all lefties enjoy that when they see their daughters cut out of activities.; 1/30/17, 9:07 PM
damikesc said...: Good bye Boy Scouts.; 1/30/17, 9:11 PM
Roughcoat said...: Are you effin' kidding me?; 1/30/17, 9:12 PM
damikesc said...: Given how many use churches for their meetings since schools kicked them out --- how, exactly, do they plan on holding meetings in the first place?; 1/30/17, 9:12 PM
PB said...: At what point does someone wanting to identify as the opposite sex become a subject of a mental health professional? Or is it the mental health profession what is causing this?; 1/30/17, 9:14 PM
Stephen Taylor said...: I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Eagle Scout, member of Order of the Arrow, Assistant Scoutmaster and Scoutmaster. This makes me want to vomit.; 1/30/17, 9:14 PM
Anonymous said...: What could go wrong?; 1/30/17, 9:16 PM
Birches said...: Lol, nothing matters; 1/30/17, 9:18 PM
Birches said...: I'm guessing church chartering organizations can keep their normal rules.; 1/30/17, 9:20 PM
n.n said...: Birches:

It's all Pro-Choice in... the twilight zone.; 1/30/17, 9:22 PM
Drago said...: O’Sullivan’s First Law: Any institution that is not explicitly right wing will become left wing over time.; 1/30/17, 9:23 PM
Rob said...: Doesn't seem like a very big deal. It's not likely to come up very often, and when it does, decent thoughtful people will be able to act decently and thoughtfully.; 1/30/17, 9:24 PM
traditionalguy said...: Boy Scouts was for a long time a very valuable activity for young men, once upon a time in America. I remember it well.

Later, from age 35 to 55 I was big time into the annual Fund Raising Drive for BSA, as much to please a certain wealthy client and friend whose display of generosity impressed me, as from a continued loyalty to the Scouts once my kids were grown.

But the thrill is gone now. Good luck.; 1/30/17, 9:25 PM
Paul said...: I was in the BSA 47 years ago or so.

I would not touch that organization with a 10 ft. pole now days.

It's Pedophile BSA now.; 1/30/17, 9:27 PM
Birches said...: My son just had his first Pinewood Derbyshire Saturday. If the BSA didn't consult with its Church Chartering organizations, it might have been his last.

What is BSA's endgame? To make themselves obsolete? Seems like they have a death wish.; 1/30/17, 9:28 PM
Henry said...: Girls can join. It's called Venture Scouting. Starts at age 14.

The BSA has developed guidelines for adult oversight that are well defined and should apply with minimal tweaks to this new policy:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx

It makes a lot of sense for the BSA to take this stance. Any active troop is driven by the parents and community. Even in the same region you will have troops with very different ethos. For example, there are two troops in my town. One is closely associated with the Orthodox Jewish temple. The other is nominally sponsored by the Catholic church but pretty much includes the rest of the kids in the town.

The national organization is right to take the agnostic stand on this. Let the local troops, with their local knowledge, make things work.; 1/30/17, 9:29 PM
mccullough said...: Project Mayhem is going to take over girls organizations and sports. It's going to be the B team for boys who can't make the boys teams.; 1/30/17, 9:46 PM
mccullough said...: In 10 years, Wellesley will be overrun with young men who self identify as female.; 1/30/17, 9:48 PM
Jupiter said...: Henry said...
"Well that was vile."

If you mean Laslo's latest celebration of pedophilia, I agree.; 1/30/17, 9:51 PM
mockturtle said...: What a crock of steaming shit! :-\; 1/30/17, 9:54 PM
Christopher said...: "What is BSA's endgame? To make themselves obsolete? Seems like they have a death wish."

They seem to have embraced the idea that if they jettison long held principles for the political cause du jour they'd be able to compensate for dropping membership rates. They labor under the belief that by giving in on certain matters the people who were complaining will suddenly join up.

However, anybody who has paid attention to the developments between various Christian sects knows that this is a recipe for disaster. The groups that threw out their beliefs and embraced relativism are shells of their former selves while conservative groups have continued growing.

Anyway I wish the Anglican Church, I'm sorry I mean the Boy Scouts of American, the best of luck.; 1/30/17, 10:10 PM
Real American said...: Tranny scouts. Losers.; 1/30/17, 10:12 PM
Jupiter said...: Be prepared.; 1/30/17, 10:13 PM
Laura said...: How is this proliferation of transgender children not a manifestation of Munchausen by proxy?; 1/30/17, 10:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Laura: How is this proliferation of transgender children not a manifestation of Munchausen by proxy?

Exactly.; 1/30/17, 10:17 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Like roadgeek, I'm an Eagle.

Anywho, I'm cool w/ gals dressed as guys joining. I'd imagine that such gals, like most gals, would be into sucking and F-ing the hottest dudes in the Troop. The rules must state that that would result in expulsion of both the gal dressed like a dude and the dude who's getting blown/laid. Of course I realize that trannys seem to be hideous, like Caitlin, so there's a natural deterrent to gettin' it on.

At least y'all just want these kids (not to mention adults) to STFU and suffer such that they don't affect you. Unlike y'all, the Muslims like throwing them off of buildings, and such.

IOW, you're not at the far end of the backwards scale. Even so, it's too bad that you're still so far that you experience psychological satisfaction by inflicting suffering on others, when minding your own Ps and Qs would avoid such, w/ no harm to you. BTW, is there anything to that popular suggestion that some of the most ardent anti-homo folks are folks who have homo feelings? Does that thing go for trannys, too? I'm guessing that y'all w/ the most visceral reactions to homo/trans folks aren't going to open up re your homo/trans soul here.

So, carry on.; 1/30/17, 11:24 PM
Birches said...: from your link Henry: "No youth may share a tent with an adult or a person of the opposite sex other than a family member or guardian."

Will that continue to be the policy for transgender kids in a troop. This is not the same as having a coed camping trip, this is having a coed camping trip and pretending that it is not. I assume that a transgender boy will see it as discriminatory to be housed in a separate tent from the rest of the troop. After all, single stall bathrooms have been deemed discriminatory in school. How is a tent any different?; 1/30/17, 11:26 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: mccullough, 5 percent of Wellesley's population is already MTF transsexual. Mostly not completed, I might add.; 1/30/17, 11:30 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: Laura nails it. This is abuse of kids by their elders, and nothing else.

I have some small experience of this, as my little niece-in-law A--- has become my grown-up nephew-in-law J---. He "transitioned" while still a minor. I do not understand why anyone allows this, frankly. But as my husband virulently disagrees with me on this, I'm "stumm."; 1/30/17, 11:38 PM
Gospace said...: Birches said...
I'm guessing church chartering organizations can keep their normal rules.

I suspect this will also be the case. But it's going to get a lot harder to recruit. My youngest just made Eagle. And I'm continuing on as an Assistant Scoutmaster as long as we can keep enough youth members.

GSA has gone so far down the liberal slide that Frontier Girls was started as an alternative. Rather then change Boy Scouts of America, the people in charge should have referred critics to the Baden-Powell Service Association. If you don't like an organization, and it's been around and successful, and the grass roots in the organization don't want it changed- and trust me - they don't- start your own group. If you've got a better idea, people will come flocking to it. If you don't, well, tough.

Children aren't transsexuals. And reality may suck, but a male will never magically turn into a female and a female will never magically transform into a male. At best, they'll be very unhappy simulacrums. Which is why Johns Hopkins, the pioneers in SRS no longer do it.; 1/30/17, 11:56 PM
Gospace said...: PB said...
At what point does someone wanting to identify as the opposite sex become a subject of a mental health professional? Or is it the mental health profession what is causing this?

Yes to your second question. The science was settled. Homosexuality was a mental illness. Then, suddenly in 1974, by a vote of the APA, it wasn't! Ta-da! magic. And even though it obviously abnormal, as in deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable or worrying, it is VERBOTEN! by the fascist language police to call it so. If you check the newest edition of INGSOC you can confirm this.; 1/31/17, 12:06 AM
mccullough said...: How much does the transgendered community hate Silence if the Lambs. Is that on their banned book/movie list?; 1/31/17, 12:34 AM
Owen said...: Insane.; 1/31/17, 1:03 AM
Etienne said...: In my day, people who joined the cub scouts and boy scouts, were all finks. Little snitches that were always turning us in, or blaming us for their miserable lives.; 1/31/17, 1:08 AM
Renee said...: They couldn't afford the law suits.

It hurts. Badly.

Not the transkids fault, that their parents and medical doctors put them through this. I think trans kids is well child abuse, vs an adult coming out on their own terms.

Not sure what will do, now with our boys. Still a good program.; 1/31/17, 2:27 AM
lgv said...: A gay scout leader in charge of tranny troops. See, it all works out.

There will be no outrage until we get the first trans girl scout leader heading up the camping committee.

The BSA has been destroyed from the inside out.; 1/31/17, 2:54 AM
The Vault Dweller said...: There is no need to indulge the delusions of people. In fact it is probably worse off for them and society as a whole. A transgender woman or girl is a male with a neurological disorder. A transgender man or boy is a female with a neurological disorder. Any doctor that gives a treatment plan that requires all 7 Billion plus people on this planet to play along in make believe deserves to have their license revoked.; 1/31/17, 4:09 AM
West Texas Intermediate Crude said...: Next, surgeons will be doing gastric bypass surgery on 83 pound teenage girls with anorexia nervosa.
Then, lower extremity amputations of normal, fully functional limbs of people who believe that the limb just doesn't belong there.
Your tax dollars will pay for it.
And you will be made to approve.; 1/31/17, 4:28 AM
Clyde said...: Children with gender dysphoria, whether on their own or with the helpful assistance of a Munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy parent, probably have other interests than scouting anyway.; 1/31/17, 4:30 AM
Oso Negro said...: This, dear readers, is the view from well down the slippery slope. But we are nowhere near the bottom. Mark it down.; 1/31/17, 4:42 AM
Anonymous said...: I'm getting really tried of this bullshit. The intensity of belief and obviously contradictory logic displays the hubris of the believers. The goal, of course, is claimed to be the truth, but the practices of vilification, misrepresentation and control tell me pretty much what I need to know about these people.

They may not get all they want, but they will probably further build-out a platform to force others to conform to their will and keep attacking orgs like the Boy Scouts. Deep down, they probably admire the structure, success and virtues of the Boy Scouts.

They act like a religious movement, nay, a vocal, true-believing sect, and having been a Boy Scout for a measly 1 1/2 years, repeating the somewhat religious and mildly ideological code, but having benefited greatly from those experiences, friendships and tasks without ever feeling coerced or promoted to the kinds of righteous idiocy, desire for control, and jealousy on display here, I will gladly defend the Boy Scouts and the right of groups of The Boy Scouts to be left alone.

Kindly fuck off.; 1/31/17, 4:44 AM
tim maguire said...: Either the difference between boys and girls matters or it doesn't.

Categories are for categorizing. So if it matters, than there needs to be a rational meaningful way of distinguishing between boys and girls. If it doesn't matter, than any distinction between the two is unacceptable.

Either the boy scouts is for boys or there shouldn't be a boy scouts.; 1/31/17, 4:55 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: BTW, is there anything to that popular suggestion that some of the most ardent anti-homo folks are folks who have homo feelings?

So by that, you and, oh, Robert Cook are the biggest Republicans here? And Ann Althouse is the biggest anti-feminist who just wants to stay home and bake cookies?; 1/31/17, 5:25 AM
jimbino said...: The Boy Scouts belong on the dustbin of history, if only because of their treatment of atheists.; 1/31/17, 5:48 AM
MayBee said...: The Boy Scouts can do whatever they want.

If I were a scoutmaster, the thing that would concern me are the parents of the kids. Some of the parents strike me as a little too attention-seeking and a little bit cray. I would worry about dealing with them. It seems like for a volunteer position, you could get yourself in trouble too easily.; 1/31/17, 6:01 AM
rhhardin said...: Once you have babes in the troop, it's time to go camping.

It would be a great improvement over the experience we had in the day.; 1/31/17, 6:04 AM
rhhardin said...: The only fun we had with with knives and hatchets. I don't suppose they have them today.; 1/31/17, 6:05 AM
rhhardin said...: Frances Ponge points out the betrayal in a wooden-handle hatchet used to chop down a tree.

It's like poetry works.; 1/31/17, 6:06 AM
Henry said...: @Birches -- I agree than transgender scouts complicate the standards a great deal, but not insurmountably so. And, to reiterate, how a troop functions depends a great deal on the commitment and common sense of the local parents.; 1/31/17, 6:20 AM
JAORE said...: Doesn't seem like a very big deal. It's not likely to come up very often, and when it does, decent thoughtful people will be able to act decently and thoughtfully.

Yes, "decent thoughtful people will be able to act decently and thoughtfully", but so very often they do not.

Sometimes they do not because they are afraid of the howler monkeys on the left flank.; 1/31/17, 6:47 AM
damikesc said...: How is this proliferation of transgender children not a manifestation of Munchausen by proxy?

No shit. Progs are abusing their children horribly with this bullshit.

IOW, you're not at the far end of the backwards scale. Even so, it's too bad that you're still so far that you experience psychological satisfaction by inflicting suffering on others, when minding your own Ps and Qs would avoid such, w/ no harm to you. BTW, is there anything to that popular suggestion that some of the most ardent anti-homo folks are folks who have homo feelings? Does that thing go for trannys, too? I'm guessing that y'all w/ the most visceral reactions to homo/trans folks aren't going to open up re your homo/trans soul here.

Remember, this is one of our "intellectual superiors" who think you can become a man or a woman because you really want it.

I am baffled why feminists don't mind that "being a woman" seems to consist SOLELY of having tits and not having a penis. There is NOTHING else to "being a woman", given that they buy into tranny nonsense and view them as women.

The claims that if women ran the world it'd be more peaceful make no sense since a dude wearing a dress is now a woman, and not a dude wearing a dress.

And the bemoaning of how kids today don't do much outside --- it's because the fucking Left ruined all organizations that helped them do more things outside and don't ALLOW kids to be outside alone without their parents risking jail time.; 1/31/17, 7:01 AM
Fritz said...: In about 20 years, most of these kids who think they're transgender are going to wake up and realize they're not, and they've been subject to emotional abuse from parents, educators and politicians. I hope they sue and win.; 1/31/17, 7:06 AM
Tank said...: SJW convergence. The Left ruins everything it touches.

I've long been a big supporter of the BS for no giving in to the BS, but I guess that's over.; 1/31/17, 7:13 AM
damikesc said...: In about 20 years, most of these kids who think they're transgender are going to wake up and realize they're not, and they've been subject to emotional abuse from parents, educators and politicians. I hope they sue and win.

Republicans would be wise to pass a bill NOW dealing with that, permitting those lawsuits and holding the parents, doctors, and surgeons personally liable.; 1/31/17, 7:26 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: The Boy Scouts belong on the dustbin of history, if only because of their treatment of atheists.

Nobody owes you anything, jimbino. No private individual or organization is obligated to accept, indulge, or accommodate anyone else's belief system.

Tolerance means allowing others to do their thing, even if their thing excludes you.

At least that is how it works in free country.; 1/31/17, 7:27 AM
Renee said...: "The only fun we had with with knives and hatchets. I don't suppose they have them today."

Our pack/troop still does. Getting nine year olds to chop wood is fun!

Won't it be traumatic for the trans kid, when he realizes he just can't go behind a tree an pee like the rest of the boys?

I actually being serious here.; 1/31/17, 7:28 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Won't it be traumatic for the trans kid, when he realizes he just can't go behind a tree an pee like the rest of the boys?

I don't think so; from what I've read, for trans kids, no matter how much their parents insist they want their kids to have a normal upbringing as their identified gender (which is always the reason given for why they have to change the rules and expectations for the other 99.97% of humans) the trans thing is an enormous part of their life and discussed constantly. I don't think the fact that these kids are Special and Different and Not Like Other Kids will be a surprise to any one of them.; 1/31/17, 7:32 AM
lgv said...: Once trannies are allowed on women's collegiate sports teams, supported by Title IX funding, we will reached the tipping point.

As noted by one commenter, this scenario isn't all that difficult to deal with, but that is always the case. Accommodating transgender tends to work better in one direction than the other, e.g. trans-men using men's bathroom vs. trans-women using women's bathroom.

When the transgender person wants to join the girl scouts, I think people will be far less accommodating.; 1/31/17, 7:35 AM
Jupiter said...: lgv said...

"The BSA has been destroyed from the inside out."

They're Lefties. It's what they do.; 1/31/17, 8:04 AM
Guildofcannonballs said...: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTs_TZFjbJ8; 1/31/17, 8:09 AM
mockturtle said...: There are reality TV shows that feature transgender kids. Kids today have been conditioned to accept abnormality as normal.; 1/31/17, 8:11 AM
Jupiter said...: damikesc said...

"I am baffled why feminists don't mind that "being a woman" seems to consist SOLELY of having tits and not having a penis. There is NOTHING else to "being a woman", given that they buy into tranny nonsense and view them as women."

Well, there are some feminists who are a bit upset about that. They have a name for themselves, you can look it up. It's a bunch of letters, of course. It has begun to occur to them that the denial of biology is all very well, but there have to be some limits. If there is no such thing as sex, and gender is merely a fungible social construct, a continuum of arbitrary behaviors, equally accessible to all, then their treasured victimhood is built upon a foundation of shifting sand. Waaaaah!

And the boys are still bigger and stronger. It's just not fair!; 1/31/17, 8:12 AM
Fernandinande said...: jimbino said...
The Boy Scouts belong on the dustbin of history, if only because of their treatment of atheists.

That was one reason I didn't last long, but they're a private club and can do what they want.

Social practices and cultural beliefs of modern life are preventing healthy brain and emotional development in children, according to an interdisciplinary body of research presented recently at a symposium at the University of Notre Dame.; 1/31/17, 8:23 AM
Jupiter said...: mockturtle said...
"There are reality TV shows that feature transgender kids. Kids today have been conditioned to accept abnormality as normal."

That's the least of it. You can turn the TV off. But the Lefties have taken over the schools. Most parents still don't realize the evil garbage those Ed School grads are pushing on their kids. It is really pretty amazing that people who don't use public transportation because it's slow, dirty, dangerous and doesn't go where they want to go anyway, will nonetheless condemn their helpless children to public education, which is far worse.; 1/31/17, 8:27 AM
Oso Negro said...: They should change their name to the Rainbow Scouts of America and offer full leftist indoctrination training plus merit badges.; 1/31/17, 9:27 AM
Titus said...: I was a cub scout. I won the State Pinewood Derby Championship in 1980. My uncle actually made my car so I guess I cheated.

tits.; 1/31/17, 9:49 AM
Rick said...: I have boys in the cub and boy scouts, between the pack and troop about 125 kids. It'll be interesting to see when someone first shows up to join. Do they join for the programs or as political commissars? For all our focus on the issue there are close to zero child transsexuals. It's very likely these are driven by activism and therefore joiners will be activism motivated.

We have a hard time getting enough adult volunteers now. How will having your efforts to raise responsible kids co-opted into a left wing activist agenda effect that? I think activists (a) know most volunteers will quit rather than be subjected to a left wing hatestorm and (b) this is the goal.; 1/31/17, 9:55 AM
Henry said...: (c) And the BSA has effectively preempted the agenda.; 1/31/17, 10:10 AM
Birches said...: This, dear readers, is the view from well down the slippery slope. But we are nowhere near the bottom. Mark it down.

Truly. Remember when everyone used a bathroom stall, so it really shouldn't matter who is using which bathroom. It was replaced by, Kids today don't shower for gym anymore and they change very modestly, so it shouldn't matter which locker room a few are choosing." Now we're at, "The kids are just sleeping in a tent together. What's the big deal?"

Slippery slope indeed.; 1/31/17, 10:28 AM
DKWalser said...: This is a no-win situation for the Boy Scouts. Years ago I headed up an organization that sponsored a scout troop. The father of one of the scouts had been convicted of a sex offense 25 years prior. (He'd had consensual sex with a 17 year-old girl. At the time, 17 was under the age of consent.) I asked the Scouts if the the father could serve as an assistant scoutmaster. The answer was no. I was told to imagine how it would look to a jury if the assistant scoutmaster was accused of sexual impropriety with one of the scouts. How could the Scouts (or my organization) defend against the charge of negligence in allowing a sex offender to serve as an assistant scoutmaster? Trying to explain that the man had never shown any indication of an interest in boys would likely fall on deaf ears. So, no matter the circumstances of the original conviction and no matter how long ago it may have been or how circumspect his life had been ever since, the man had to be barred from serving with the Scouts.

Fast forward to today. How are the Scouts to protect their charges from sexual abuse if they have to accept all comers -- trans, queer, straight -- as scouts or leaders? Are juries more sophisticated than they were in the past? Will they accept that having a transgendered "boy" sleep in the same tent as a "real" boy is not per se negligence? I doubt it. I'm sure most juries -- learning that something inappropriate happened in that tent -- will believe the Scouts should have known that with these particular individuals it was unsafe to put them in the same tent, while continuing to believe that the Scouts should welcome all comers.; 1/31/17, 10:33 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Be funny if that boy gets pregnant.; 1/31/17, 10:53 AM
Monique said...: I am surprised at the idea of a transgender 8 year olds but who am I to say what is true for a person? How many are there this young anyway?? The transgender teens and young adults I know were not twisted by their parents or teachers or anyone else. They truly feel a need to be more their true self not what we outside see them as. As we learn more about the human body and mind we do better. Hey it was not so long ago we did open heart surgery on infants without anesthesia because there was an idea they did not feel pain! Now we know better and we do better.

Scouting is not about sex and sexuality. It is about fun with a purpose and character and civics and a spiritual life and being prepared and the outdoors and trying on new and different sports, crafts, science, trades, business, and future careers.

I am a female Boy Scout Leader. While it would be great if the dads stepped up many are not in the picture or even slightly interested in doing/leading scouts. I am there making sure the youth get the trained, active, positive interaction they need with an adult.

I am a Venture Crew adviser (BSA scouting program for young men and women ages 14-21). We do everything in mixed company. There are rules and common sense to keep everyone safe. These kids want to have adventure, leadership opportunities, personal growth and provide service to the community. Getting it on is not on the agenda.

We are one of the very few countries which puritanically segregate our scouting youth. Really there are more important things to worry about. Scouting should be for all youth.; 1/31/17, 10:54 AM
YeeHaw! said...: I have a bit of experience with LGBT meets Scouting. Observations:

--Scouting parents, especially single moms, really really really value what Scouts has to offer their sons. They will fight tooth and nail anyone who threatens that.

--Those parents? They are your peers. Probably part of your social circle outside scouting. And they were there first. You need to get along with them more than they need to get along with you.

--Ah, and kindly Mr. Scoutmaster? A volunteer. A volunteer whose skill set and experience is much in demand in the community, and is not very easily replaced. Do you want to run him off, pissing off all those parents? Ditto with Mr. Committee Chair, who has to put up with not only your crap, but the crap of all the parents you piss off.

--Your "son" has to get along with a lot of other boys. Kindly Mr. Scoutmaster can and will stop the other boys from bullying or being overtly nasty, but he can't make them like or accept your "son". "He" has to get along with them.

--People who aren't willing to conform to traditional gender definitions often have a hard time with all of the OTHER policies that BSA has in place, and boy howdy, there are a lot, including how the troop runs things. Especially how the troop runs things

--A scouting parent has to put a lot of skin in the game -- schlepping your kid to the meetings, helping plan activities. Oh, and the camping is pretty rough too. Lot of work to do just to make a statement.

--One of the major things keeping LGBT scouts and parents out of Boy Scouts is the LGBT community. I knew one LGBT family that flat out admitted they were quitting scouting because of the flak they were getting from their LGBT "friends" who cared more about ideological purity than the happiness or well-being of said LGBT family.; 1/31/17, 11:21 AM
YeeHaw! said...: Oh, and you will note that Monique and I seem to have very different perspectives on this. Which is one of the cool things about Scouting. Units are very independent, with different cultures, tones, and values.

So if you don't much care for my knuckle-dragging philosophy, you might find Monique's unit to be more your style. And I am more than happy for you.; 1/31/17, 11:32 AM
Gospace said...: We are one of the very few countries which puritanically segregate our scouting youth. Really there are more important things to worry about. Scouting should be for all youth.

That statement is both true and false. I go to Canada yearly for a Scout trip. Sponsored by Scouts Canada, the Canadian Boy Scouts, except it's coed, there are no Canadian organizations just for boys, That's not tolerated. Also at these gatherings are Girl Scouts Canada and Girl Guides Canada, two all girl outfits, because girls need organizations where they can gather safely away from boys.

I'm pretty certain that's true in all nations where Scouts is coed. No organizations exist just for boys, but separate scouting organizations exist for girls. I see double standards at work there, but apparently they don't.

BTW, remember Campfire Girls? They're now just Campfire. And kind of exist, although I've never seen any of them. Going coed sure helped them.

And if you're involved in BSA you find out there's a reason BSA has never gone coed. I don't know if it's written or just understood, but it seem GSA doesn't want BSA to go coed because that will pretty much spell the end of GSA.; 1/31/17, 12:06 PM
Unknown said...: One thing not brought up is the new Massachuessets law that declares that churches are public accommodations if they are "open to the public". If a Boy Scout troop chartered by a church has to let in transgendered, then that church likely has signed their death warrant and will now be dictated to by the state as a "public accommodation" and all their teachings/doctrines forced to not be "hateful."

This is yet another attack on freedom of religion. Expect many churches to drop scouting, simply because they cannot afford to be labeled a "public accommodation." Recall the Ocean City case a while ago, where a church was forced to do gay weddings simply because they had allowed other weddings and thus become a "public accommodation". No one wants to risk that. Goodbye, Scouts.

--Vance; 1/31/17, 12:09 PM
mockturtle said...: Vance, it's time for a new scouting organization to be formed. Of course, the members will be called 'Hitler Youth' but who cares? This is the last straw in an already overloaded donkey.; 1/31/17, 12:27 PM
mockturtle said...: YeeHaw reports: --One of the major things keeping LGBT scouts and parents out of Boy Scouts is the LGBT community. I knew one LGBT family that flat out admitted they were quitting scouting because of the flak they were getting from their LGBT "friends" who cared more about ideological purity than the happiness or well-being of said LGBT family.

I'm sure that's true. Do scouts still pledge to do their duty to God and country? I'm sure a lot of Progs would object to that.; 1/31/17, 12:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Monique: We are one of the very few countries which puritanically segregate our scouting youth.

There is nothing "puritanical" about boys wanting to participate in male-only organizations. It's normal. Same for girls.

Really there are more important things to worry about. Scouting should be for all youth.

I agree, there are more important things to worry about. So as long as people can enjoy mixed-sex troops if that's what they prefer, you won't, I hope, waste time worrying about kids and parents who prefer boys-only and girls-only scouting troops.; 1/31/17, 12:36 PM
amr said...: There is a more-conservative alternative to BSA (I don't remember what). I looked at it briefly. Like the Frontier Girls (which my eldest was in for one year), it was created by the people most motivated to be different than the BSA or GSA; those are the most conservative and devoutly religious. I wanted something with mild ecumenical religosity to explore the scoutcraft and get the camping experiences I did as a boy, not the left-leaning thing that I fear GSA has become (though I didn't look deeply), and not the conservative alternatives that seem to be church groups. My kids have church groups for religious learning.

I'm just more ticked off that neither option is good for middle-of-the-road American values.; 1/31/17, 12:50 PM
Gospace said...: amr said...
There is a more-conservativealternative to BSA (I don't remember what)

You're probably thinking of Trail Life USA. There are other religious and secular alternatives if you look.

And if you can get your local HS to cooperate, you might be able to establish a junior ROTC program in the school. Each service has their own JROTC program. Even the USCG has one unit. And then there's the Sea Cadets. I was invited by a friend to attend in HS. Went to one meeting and was impressed. But, it required travelling 40 miles from home each week to participate, and for various family reasons I won't get into, I wasn't able to devote time to it.

So, why try to change one organization instead of joining another? Easy answer- you want to ruin it, because you're a bully who disagrees with some of it. Once you ruin it, you'll move on to you next target.; 1/31/17, 1:26 PM
YeeHaw! said...: Mockturtle:

It isn't the pledge or any other specific policy. It is that whole tribalism thing, where BSA is seen as the "other", and thus an enemy that is due no consideration or courtesy.

The people yelling loudest about how Scouts should run their organization are the the same people who wouldn't be caught dead in a Scout uniform, regardless of policy.

I could tell stories.

Similar to how Clinton/Obama got a pass for opposing SSM, while Cheney got cut no slack for supporting it.; 1/31/17, 2:47 PM
ccscientist said...: A boy cannot know what it means to be male really until well into puberty. He does not get girls and mostly does not play with them. Suddenly, it is all he notices. To take a boy's feelings that he is really a girl and act on them is insane. He should be over 18 and emancipated first.
Same goes for girls of course.; 1/31/17, 3:03 PM
Jupiter said...: Rick said...

"I think activists (a) know most volunteers will quit rather than be subjected to a left wing hatestorm and (b) this is the goal."

And why do you think that is? What is it about BSA that makes the Left want to destroy it?; 1/31/17, 9:34 PM