Said President Barack Obama, meeting today with President-Elect Donald Trump.
The 2 men had never met before.
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227 comments:
1 – 200 of 227 Newer› Newest»"Getting to know you, getting to know all about you..."
Obama is remarkably conciliatory in defeat. It's a shame that he wasn't humble in victory.
First question asked by Trump: Where do you keep the pen to sign executive orders?
/sarc
Needs the Civility Bullshit tag.
If Obama succeeds, the nation fails.
Their mutual love of golf overcomes all other differences
I'm assuming that the MLK bust is toast soon enough.
Maybe DJT will bring Winston back from the Treaty Room location, too.
And, there's no way the new rug doesn't get a lot flashier than that tan thing.
Also, out w/ the cush sofa, and in w/ gilding.
It is very nice if Obama is sincere. My bet goes with, "It's a trap"!
Obama can bullshit.
Like everything else the man has ever said, it is simply trite, cliched, boilerplate.
He knows that Trump's success would mean the erasure of his "legacy."
His name is near enough to Ozymandias to recognize the parallel.
It is probably bullshit in that he will do things behind the scenes to agitate, but it is a nice gesture. I can't recall this sort of thing happening so soon after an election. Usually it's closer to inauguration day.
I wish he would use his influence to get George Soros or whoever is paying the rioters to stop.
Is this a translation from the original Kenyanese?
His agenda has been thoroughly repudiated. He can at least get on formal record sounding polite and presidential. He knows this moment will be replayed..not the jaunty, folksy, affected crap he doled out to rally Dems.
"It is very nice if Obama is sincere. My bet goes with, "It's a trap"!"
Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS so:
1) BHO sincerely wants to do anything possible to help get through a steep learning curve.
2) BHO thinks holy-S if this DJT thing struggles, I don't want to leave even a hint of an opening to support any blame shooting back at me as DJT deals w/ the difference between arm-chairing and the real thing.
I didn't get a silvery-blue necktie and I won't get a shrieking-red necktie.
Rush Limbaugh said that Obama is still obsessed about early 2009 when Rush said "I hope he fails". Rush still living rent-free in the heads of 2 Presidents(Clinton, Obama)!
Eric - how are things over at Chucky Johnson's cesspool?
Obama's playing nice for the cameras, but given some of the comments he has made about Trump over the past few months and Trumps stated plans on Obama's "greatest achievement" (ACA) I can't imagine he's being sincere here.
Obama has his legacy on his mind. I'm sure he was feeling his way during this meeting, trying to gauge what, if anything, he could do to help preserve even a small part of it. Obama could still do some pretty significant things in the time remaining to him. Everyone is expecting a bunch of controversial pardons in his final weeks, but most people are probably thinking about whether or not one very specific pardon is in the cards or not.
Where will he site the infinity pool?
Rush thinks the magnanimity is a dem plan, to put democrats in charge of saying what's morally correct. Rather than just disagreeing with this or that policy.
That would account for Hillary's very out of character speech.
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/10/moscow-calling-donald-trumps-campaign-was-in-contact-with-russian-agents/
DESPITE REPEATEDLY DENYING ANY CONNECTION WITH RUSSIAN BUSINESS INTERESTS OR THE VLADIMIR PUTIN REGIME, A SENIOR RUSSIAN DIPLOMAT SPILLED THE BEANS THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH RUSSIA.
"“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” said Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Rybakov in an interview on Thursday with Interfax, a state-run news agency. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
“We have just begun to consider ways of building dialogue with the future Donald Trump administration and channels we will be using for those purposes,” Ryabkov added."
A pretty speech by Obama, but as I said many times before you need to ignore what he says and watch what he does.
magnanimity is a dem plan, to put democrats in charge of saying what's morally correct
Its their standard ploy where they have the baby and abort it, too. Now that the People have overcome the Democratic margin of fraud, they should be denied their twilight refuge.
Request for Kellyanne Conway: can you please, please teach Donald to get rid of those irritating hand gestures?
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH RUSSIA.
Get back to me when you have proof that Trump asked the Russians to interfere in our election so that he could win, since we already have proof that Kennedy and the Democrats have already asked the Soviets to do so.
Obama didn't allow the Press to take pictures outside with the spouses-breaking a long tradition. But don't mention that. It makes Obama look petty.
Salon is where I go to get the 411 from unnamed Russian diplomats.
Obama associates and their media servants are already plotting. Regular liberal Democrats still look at the activities of the Obama administration like an episode of The West Wing. In reality many of them are soul mates of the anarchy of the Occupy Movement and worse, superficially romantic but deeply evil underneath. Not buying the civility and I hope Trump knows it too. The new war is just beginning.
Democrats can see Russia from their bathroom server closets.
AprilApple said...
"If Obama succeeds, the nation fails".
Absolutely true. The Usurper has divided the nation, and attacked all aspects of American society. Notice how he cancelled the "photo-op". He is such a petty tyrant, and did not want to be photographed with the America loving POTUS elect, of whom the Press Sec. (Ernest) confirmed that the Usurper still believes is "unqualified". He is a narcissistic meglomaniac child.
I think I might miss Obama more than I miss Valeri Jarrett.
It's all relative
“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” said Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Rybakov in an interview on Thursday with Interfax, a state-run news agency. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
"Salon is where I go to get the 411 from unnamed Russian diplomats."
Must be dyslexic..
Inga saw Trump Russians in the 10-pound pork shoulder she ate this morning.
Lest anyone forget amidst all the rousing choruses of "Kum ba ya..."
This is the guy who told Republicans, "I won."
Who said of Republicans, "After they drove the car into the ditch, made it as difficult as possible for us to pull it back, now they want the keys back. No! You can’t drive."
Who is the leader of the party that drafted a 2000-page montrosity of a bill,locked Republicans out of the process, and passed it using legislative dirty tricks.
I could go on, but I think you'll understand why I'm more than a little bit skeptical.
Salon is where I go to get the 411 from Sergei Rybakov, too. I'm glad he's so brave to risk the wrath of Putin by talking about these secret meetings.
Obama legacy: republican control of the presidency, house, senate. 31 republican governors. 23 republican controlled states to 11 democrat controlled states. Obamacare is an unmitigated failure and will be repealed. Record low labor participation rates. Lowest growth for an 8 year period since the depression was drug out by another democrat.
Democrats will never control the senate again without massive fraud. The layout of republican to democrat leaning states precludes it.
I want to know if there will be a meeting and photo op in the oval office with the two Bushes, Carter and Clinton, as Bush '43 arranged for Obama in January 2009.
Bush was very helpful to Obama in the 2008 transition and I'm sure Obama is trying to return the favor. Of course, thanks to the Great Recession there was much greater urgency then, and Bush had met with both candidates together at the White House before the election, at McCain's insistence, in a move that Bush in his memoir criticized.
"guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS so:"
Well according to historians who study this, no one not already in that club is prepared. But, at least in this case, Trump is more suited to take on this challenge than Obama was when he took office.
It's all relative.
I'm surprised they've never met before!
That must piss Putin off. You arrange for secret meetings and then some bigmouth talks to Salon. I hope Salon verified that they weren't talking to the Sergei Rybakov that works in The Russian Vodka Room on 52nd St. in NYC.
2018 is set to usher in a permanent republican control of the senate. 25 dems up and only 8 republicans.
Count the number of democrats up for reelection in states Trump won.
Obamas legacy.
Deeds, not words.
We all know the Democrats will do EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO TORPEDO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
No ifs, ands, or buts.
Just see all the demonstrations.
And as for Obama, remember him saying, "We won"? And "go sit at the back of the bus while we drive"?
Now all the sudden it's "we are all far ya".
Sure buddy.
"Needs the Civility Bullshit tag."
I don't think so. This seems sincere enough.
Like when Obama said Hillary was likeable enough.
He carried that sentiment through her campaign. Obama gave some support and said some things you expect him to say, but I never got the sense he was really behind Hillary's efforts. I'm not so sure he's all that disappointed that she lost. Of course his only legislative accomplishment is gone, but even Obama knows it needs a massive fix or should die.
He had a good ride from his perspective. HIs accomplishments are shattered but the media and historians will protect his legacy.
Shadooby
"He knows that Trump's success would mean the erasure of his "legacy." "
It won't even require that...it's been taken care of on its own.
"Democrats will never control the senate again without massive fraud."
D's were saying the same thing about R's winning the White House. Now they are rediscovering the benefits of constitutional limitations on executive power. They never thought the presidency would turn back so quickly.
D's will control the Senate again within 10 years.
Yes, Jelly..
Obama walked into office with tremendous executive level background....
An academic with with his academic record sealed.
"Obama didn't allow the Press to take pictures outside with the spouses-breaking a long tradition. But don't mention that. It makes Obama look petty."
-- Well, he did win.
Don't bullshit a bullshitter.
"D's will control the Senate again within 10 years."
-- I think, rightly or wrongly, there will be a well-orchestrated electoral backlash against Trump, so I think this is entirely possible. The Democrats have convinced a non-trivial minority of voters that Trump and his voters want them dead. It is an existential crisis for people; they honestly think losing another election means work camps and death squads.
Combine this with voters who just lean left and dislike conservative policies, and you now have a very motivated anti-Trump voting block. If Trump does anything slightly concerning to limit civil rights, the swing could happen sooner than we think.
Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS
Welll PB, you're failure to clarify the antecedent leaves this open to whom was discovering the lack of qualification in the other.
Their mutual love of watching the Clinton machine self-destruct, and take down its apparatus overcomes all other differences
Fixed it for ya! But Golf is probably a close second.
Bullshit, over and over and over...
"Obama didn't allow the Press to take pictures outside with the spouses-breaking a long tradition. But don't mention that. It makes Obama look petty."
Who nixed the photo op? Could have been Michelle.
Right now, I'd say that Obama is very worried that Trump will start to fix things that Obama has fucked up after 8 years of his being POTUS. Making him look like the affirmative action figure that he truly was.
In all seriousness, Donald 'Deal Maker Making America Great Again' Trump is going to do the following:
> Take down Hillary, and then proceed shape this narrative:
That really she's the great culprit behind the last 8 years of crap. Sure, Obama made a bad healthcare deal that we will now repeal and replace, but it was good intentions that failed, not like Hillary who was actively malicious against the American people.
Obama can retire into his place in Hawaii without being hounded, Republicans get to enjoy Clinton getting justice. In exchange, Obama doesn't get in the way of shit, and the Democrats get a good lesson: do you want the Obama treatment? Or the Clinton one? Then let's all agree to a bipartisan agreement to BUILD. THE. WALL.
Remember Obama's obnoxious Office of the President Elect? God will I be glad when he is gone.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/world/europe/trump-campaign-russia.html
"MOSCOW — The Russian government maintained contacts with members of Donald J. Trump’s “immediate entourage” during the American presidential campaign, one of Russia’s top diplomats said Thursday.
“There were contacts,” Sergei A. Ryabkov, the deputy foreign minister, was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency. “We continue to do this and have been doing this work during the election campaign,” he said.
Mr. Ryabkov said officials in the Russian Foreign Ministry were familiar with many of the people he described as Mr. Trump’s entourage. “I cannot say that all, but a number of them maintained contacts with Russian representatives,” Mr. Ryabkov said."
Darrell said...Obama didn't allow the Press to take pictures outside with the spouses-breaking a long tradition. But don't mention that. It makes Obama look petty.
11/10/16, 1:40 PM
Aren't we all going to pre-miss this wonderful man?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/moscow-had-contacts-with-trump-team-during-campaign-russian-diplomat-says/2016/11/10/28fb82fa-a73d-11e6-9bd6-184ab22d218e_story.html
"MOSCOW — Russian government officials had contacts with members of Donald Trump’s campaign team, a senior Russian diplomat said Thursday, in a disclosure that could reopen scrutiny over the Kremlin’s role in the president-elect’s bitter race against Hillary Clinton.
Facing questions about his ties to Moscow because of statements interpreted as lauding Russian President Vladimir Putin, Trump repeatedly denied having any contact with the Russian government.
After the latest statement by the Russian diplomat, Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks denied that there were interactions between Russia and the Trump team before Tuesday’s election."
FAA created a No Fly zone created over Trump Tower. 4 mile circle (truncated to the center of river) and up to 3000 feet.
http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_6456.html
I like Hillary Clinton , I hope Donald Trump would be nice for us,,, @Indians Happy New Year 2017 Wallpaper and Coupons Tricks Offers
Just heard a "reporter" imagining why the meeting went long...pulling it directly out of her ass.
"The Democrats have convinced a non-trivial minority of voters that Trump and his voters want them dead. It is an existential crisis for people; they honestly think losing another election means work camps and death squads."
Just had personal experience with this with my sister in law. She's Asian, daughter of immigrants, and lived here all her life. Extremely talented, graceful, pretty, smart, funny. Wellesley grad living in NYC so part of the east coast elite, but without the attitude. I knew she was a lefty but we don't talk politics often. She cried all day yesterday. Reluctant now to come visit the midwest because she knows the majority here supported Trump enough to elect him.
It's not rational to me but it is real. Had no idea election results could cause people I know and respect to react that way.
Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS
I think only a handful of people who've been VP are really, truly prepared to be POTUS, though George W. Bush seems to have hit the ground running.
They spent the whole time comparing Hillary jokes. Obama agreed to not remove the "T"s from the White House keyboards.
"Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS so:"
And after 8 years, he's still not.
It's not rational to me but it is real. Had no idea election results could cause people I know and respect to react that way.
They don't know how to lose....they've been told that they were winners and given participation trophies their whole life.
Add to that the Left's insistence that everything in political, and they face the destruction of their entire world with no coping mechanisms.
Commenter Unknown is excited that the press awakens from its long 8-year slumber.
Acts of journalism will commence, speaking truth to power!
Trump has to be laughing. His staff is a handful of people. Like they didn't have enough to do. Not too difficult to figure out if the Russian is blowing smoke.
Serge has a motive to make Russia look relevant, but don't expect the NYT or the WP to pause to think they're getting played.
They were arranging a special meeting with the Trump plane and US One on the tarmac in Reykjavik.
"Add to that the Left's insistence that everything in political, and they face the destruction of their entire world with no coping mechanisms."
-- In high school/college, one of my biggest turn offs from going left instead of right was the whole, "The personal is political." I still agree, especially on a lot of social issues, with the left, but I find it very hard to identify like that.
Nigel Tufnel said...
"The Democrats have convinced a non-trivial minority of voters that Trump and his voters want them dead. It is an existential crisis for people; they honestly think losing another election means work camps and death squads."
Just had personal experience with this with my sister in law. She's Asian, daughter of immigrants, and lived here all her life. Extremely talented, graceful, pretty, smart, funny. Wellesley grad living in NYC so part of the east coast elite, but without the attitude. I knew she was a lefty but we don't talk politics often. She cried all day yesterday. Reluctant now to come visit the midwest because she knows the majority here supported Trump enough to elect him.
It's not rational to me but it is real. Had no idea election results could cause people I know and respect to react that way.
11/10/16, 2:29 PM
Yep, insufferable in victory, inconsolable in defeat. What is not to love?
Ronald Reagan (truer words have never been spoken) “It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
And, there's no way the new rug doesn't get a lot flashier than that tan thing.
I suspect Trump will also have the prayer mat removed.
I find those words... difficult to believe.
(Even for just the Preisdnrt and his people; the rest of their "side" will do no such thing, and are proudly crowing about it.
They're not even wrong to, in that nobody is obliged to help their opponent succeed, especially if they believe their goals wicked.)
Personally I think Obama spent 90 minutes trying to work out a deal where his mighty works won't become undone and certain people wouldn't be prosecuted. Thereby making his administration look bad.
I say this because there is no conversation with Obama where Obama is not the central topic.
Trump gave a conciliatory speech and the left riots.
you guys are really delusional... big mike thought that W hit the ground running?... he may have hit the ground but it was because he tripped over his own feet... i seem to remember that within a year one of the most egregious attacks on US soil had occurred and we were in a war that morphed into invading a country with WMDs (or rumored to have them) a couple of billion dollars and 100s of thousand of live later, we're still there.. trump is unproven so be careful of what you wish for... he may turn out to be more moderate than any one expected... also before you all kill me, trump does not have a mandate, last i saw he was still behind in the vote count by a pretty large margin... electoral college - another anachronism who's time has come and gone... if i remember correctly this makes the last 2 republican presidents elected by less votes than their opponent...
But did Barry give him the secret initiation into the Degree of the Lewenski Hallway...something about skulls and boners.
Translation: "Hey Trump and you other silly Rethuglicans, forget The Magnificent Obama Years, when it was ALLL ABOUT "I won", and "I have a pen and a phone". Now we gots us a New Era where we Dem-Proggs are not the majority any more, so NOW we're asking (ever-so-nicely) for civility, comity, and cooperation. Heck maybe y'all could just keep rolling over and approving blank checks for us; that'd sure show us how wrong we were about you. Deal???"
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH RUSSIA.
Based on Unknown's postings just the last day or two...
El Predicto sez:
this one won't have a chance to collect dust.
Unknown, as usual, is FOS. Can you say "Fifth columnist.?
Matthew Sablan said...
I think, rightly or wrongly, there will be a well-orchestrated electoral backlash against Trump, so I think this is entirely possible. The Democrats have convinced a non-trivial minority of voters that Trump and his voters want them dead. It is an existential crisis for people; they honestly think losing another election means work camps and death squads.
It's hard to see how this favors Democrats. As reality proves these fears ridiculous many will realize how foolish they were, while the rest repeating this will only discredit them.
A journalist claimed Bush was going to cancel the 2008 elections and refuse to leave office. Who do you think listens to that guy after 2008? Core Democrats do since reality isn't relevant to them, but the other 85% of the country?
@ AllenS All you need do is look at the WSJ home page to see kill list of Obama items: Dodd-Frank, Obamacare, TPP. Great stuff.
if it were true, that the trump campaign and trump have closer ties to putin than we know about and given the fact that trump has extensive investments in russia ... would you feel any differently towards him?... something we may have known about if his tax returns were made available... you all are so over the moon with the election win while we really are buying a pig in poke .. there is so much we don't know about trump.. you guys are projecting all of your wishes on him ... already this blog has turn more sexist and racist...
This blog is a ridiculously non-racist, non-sexist place.
To say otherwise makes me think you haven't been here.
Also: We should not kill the Electoral College. Attempting to ignore rural voters and take away their power/agency is what GOT you Trump.
What do you think they'll vote for if your follow up is to try and completely make them irrelevant to policy making decisions?
so rural voters votes should be weighted more than the majority?... i like 1 man 1 vote kind of accounting... i think that's what the founding fathers had in mind... electoral college was a compromise to appease southeners...
The electoral college thing wouldn't have mattered if not for the fact that Hillary Clinton lost 10 million Democrat voters from 2008. Why did they stay home?
GWash said...
... already this blog has turn more sexist and racist...
Could you please add a profile picture? That would help me in knowing just how much to lower my expectations when dealing with you.
GWash, want some cheese with that whine?
Obama has a history of not meeting with his political enemies and not trying to bridge gaps. And now he's worried about his legacy. It's as if the two are connected....
alex i agree... the dems blew it.. mediocre candidate and underestimating your opponent and focusing on trumps personality not his business history and lack of any skills other than self promotion..
one thing i'm looking forward in the new admin. is seeing the plan to eliminate ISIS... it's a promise worthy of trump...
Orange Is The New Black.
he'll probably sue ISIS to death...
"i think that's what the founding fathers had in mind"
... No. The electoral college is a compromise so that elite cities do not run rough shod over rural/suburban interests. This is balanced by the fact that those elite cities *get lots and lots money and power* in other ways.
The EC is an elegant solution that allows a country as physically large and diverse as the United States to work.
Vero Possomus. Isn't that Latin for "payback's a b****?
Who nixed the photo op? Could have been Michelle.
I imagine the the thought of side by side photos with the Trump women have got to be weighing brutally on some out there. The one I'd like to see first is Loretta Lynch next to Melania.
If anyone ever tells me "the EC is not what the founding fathers had in mind," it tells me that they're historically illiterate.
It is LITERALLY what they had in mind. So much so, THEY WROTE IT DOWN.
>>Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS
I agree. After 8 years of on the job training, Obama STILL isn't prepared to be president.
Unknown's failure tears are a delicious addition to my Trump Victory Martini!
FAA created a No Fly zone created over Trump Tower. 4 mile circle (truncated to the center of river) and up to 3000 feet.
That's standard. I remember charts from the 60s with odd circular restricted zones out in the middle of nowhere that were this or that president's retreat.
Did they each count their fingers after the handshake?
Feel free to amend the Constitution to elect the president by popular vote, GWash. Otherwise, feel free to whine and stamp your feet. As it stands, you're just adding to the sheer enjoyment of Trump's electoral victory -- thanks!
What is a dissent collar, that is, its origin.
Justice Ginsburg Wears 'Dissent' Collar Following Contentious Election
I want to emphasize to you, Mr. President-elect, that we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed ....
Yeah, I know I said we now are going to want to do everything........ but you know, wanting to do something and actually doing can be..... complicated..........and I do have to keep up with my golf game...
What color dissent collar will Ruth Buzzie Ginsburg wear when Trump replaces her on the court with Ted Cruz?
Blogger Achilles said...
2018 is set to usher in a permanent republican control of the senate. 25 dems up and only 8 republicans.
Count the number of democrats up for reelection in states Trump won.
Obamas legacy.
I read that Republicans had 24 seats to defend and were sure to lose control of the Senate this time around because the most ever won, during the Reagan revolution was 22 and there was no way Trump could even come close to that number. Did Republicans win 21 or 22?
News report today:
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest on Thursday threw cold water on a report that the Obamas canceled a traditional photo-op with the Trumps before their first-ever meeting at the White House.
“The press access we put together was based on the guidance we received from all of you over the last eight years about what the priority is,” Earnest told reporters in his daily press briefing, referring to the photograph and brief on-camera interview that President Barack Obama and President-elect Donald Trump did in the Oval Office.
Cable networks spent the morning with their cameras trained on the doors outside the West Wing, hoping for footage of their first handshake, but came up empty-handed. At around 11:20 a.m., anchors belatedly reported that the meeting between the current and future Presidents had been underway without their knowledge for twenty minutes.
The Wall Street Journal had reported that the first couple canceled the photo-op in a break from previous transitions, like when the Obamas posed for news cameras alongside President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, during their first visit to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue after the 2008 election.
Earnest told reporters that no such cancelation occurred, but that the first couples' photo was “lower in priority” than the photo opportunity inside the Oval Office.
(If you look at press reports of Obama's visit to the White House in November 2008, there was no on camera interview with Obama and Bush on that visit.)
i agree fabi... let's amend the constitution... i'm not whining so much as pointing out that it's an anachronism that really has outlived its usefulness... i dont remember it really having anything to do with balancing the rural/urban votes
I'm not agreeing with you, GWash. If you'd like to amend the Consitution go ahead. It is kind of funny that an 'anachronism' would serve so well for so many years, only to have a simpleton like you criticize it. I live happy knowing that the Founders were light years ahead of their time, and would have never had you in their club.
GWash
Why not eliminate the electoral college and replace it with a one state one vote concept. The popular vote in each state would be honored.
Not so much. eh?
The EC is directly aligned with Federalism.
And that pisses off the left.
Like GWash has the first clue about Federalsim! He probably thinks it's an anachronism, too.
well thanks for the compliments... unfortunately now i disagree with you.. the founders were regular guys dealing with problems... EC was not a stroke of genius it was (the way i understand it) a practical solution to a vexying problem that existed at the beginning of the nation.. what's so bad about electing by popular vote?... if it was such a good idea why isn't it replicated in other elections?
GWash said... [hush][hide comment]
so rural voters votes should be weighted more than the majority?... i like 1 man 1 vote kind of accounting... i think that's what the founding fathers had in mind... electoral college was a compromise to appease southeners...
11/10/16, 3:15 PM
The historical ignorance in this one is strong...
We are NOT a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic. What do they teach in school these days? I learned that way back in the very early 80s in high-school. The system we have was specifically put in place in order to avoid mob rule. The Electoral Collage elected the President, half of Congress was selected by the states and half was selected by the people. Ever since, people have been working to screw it over. For example the 17th amendment (would love to see that repealed).
To amend the constitution in order to eliminate the Electoral College, you'll have to convince the smaller states to ratify. Unlikely to happen. It was originally put in place to temper the power of the big states over the small ones. The same sort of thinking went into the Senate.
Unknown said... [hush][hide comment]
“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” said Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Rybakov in an interview on Thursday with Interfax, a state-run news agency. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
That is a good thing, isn't it? Saves time getting acquainted in 2017. After all, the idea is to repair the damage done by Clinton and Obama, right? Become partners with Russia, instead of starting a war, like Hillary wanted.
Anyone who thinks that the Founders were "regular guys" may not have a clue about much else. Annuit Cœptis
What a contrast. Obama did the "I" "I" "I" "I" "I" thing again. Trump, while quite courteous, was focused on what has to be done.
While Trump is simply not my cup of tea and never will be, I came around over the course of the general election to have considerable respect for him. I think he will be a good president in difficult times.
I give Obama credit for doing this - it has to be painful and humiliating. He manned up to the best of his ability. I think it places him in a good light, and I'm glad about that.
thank you too for the compliment.. the bloggers here are a real joy to converse with..so how exactly does the EC play into temporing mob rule?... how often do the electors overrule the vote of the people? and why do you say that we can't elect the highest officers of the land by direct vote?... we wouldn't have to have referendum on everything, which is what i think you say i'm suggesting (your democracy remark)
You can elect them by popular vote, GWash! It'll be yuge! Better start on that amendment right away. Go! Start now! Hurry!
The "whose streets, our streets" crowds seem to be out in some force. And while some of this presumably spontaneous, those printed signs don't look homemade. Who would want to be associated with encouraging behavior like this?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/trump-win-sparks-riots-across-9225317
I don't believe a word of what O says... He absolutely doesn't want Trump to be successful. Another lie on par with "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."
http://heatst.com/politics/donald-trumps-fisa-warrant-russia-admits-it-ran-him-as-agent-of-influence/
"The night before the election, I reported that in October the FBI sought, and was granted, a secret FISA court warrant giving U.S. counter-intelligence agents permission to examine the activities of “U.S. persons” in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.
Counterintelligence sources now further tell me that US intelligence has gained legal permission to look at transcripts of phone conversations that were held by Trump advisor Carter Page while he was in Russia in July.
Mr. Page, as reported by Heat Street in July, said he was in Russia as a private individual giving an academic lecture. He also met with some Russian officials, including the Deputy Prime Minister of Russia, Arkady Dvorkovich. These meetings were at the time couched as private ones — not official contacts between the campaign and the Russian government. Russian media were skeptical of that explanation at the time.
Indeed, these contacts may have been viewed differently by the Kremlin. On Thursday, the Washington Post reports, Russia’s deputy foreign minister told a Russian news agency that there were indeed contacts between the Russian government and the Trump campaign:
Facing questions about his ties to Moscow because of his statements in favor of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Trump repeatedly denied having any contact with the Russian government.
But Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, in an interview with the state-run Interfax news agency, said that “there were contacts” with the Trump team.
“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Ryabkov said. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
My counter-intelligence sources also suggest that, by openly acknowledging Russian contacts with the Trump campaign, the Kremlin may be looking to “throw Trump under the bus” … exposing his camp to further FBI investigations about its ties to Russia and weakening his new administration.
Update: under penalty of perjury, anybody joining a Trump admin would have to confess their Russian meetings to the FBI, tweeted a former spokesman for Attorney General Eric Holder."
Zero is con man. I wonder what traps he is busy preparing.
I hope it's not having his people remove the "W"s from the keyboards because that's already been done.
That would be "Former AG Eric Holder, Contempt of Congress citation still in place".
It will be interesting to see if the 'Interstate Compact' whatever to guarantee that the winner of the popular vote wins the presidential election makes progress, or is enforceable at law &c &c [https://goo.gl/LxfYeL]; imagine not knowing who is elected to the presidency until (literally) all the votes are counted.
Unknown: wake me up when you decide to care that Obama told the Russians that he'd have "more flexibility after the election", and the only reason we know about it is because the idiot unknowingly said it near a hot mic.
Gwash,
Are you ok with Virginia guv enabling all those felons to vote?
As long as there's a lot of lowly educated folks in rural and poor states that continue voting for pols that do stuff to financially benefit rich folks in large population, innovative, successful blue states, the electoral college (not to mention the Senate) are no problem.
If those folks in small states ever got too greedy w/ wanting too much stuff from the successful big states, then there could be an issue.
But, give them a stars and bars flag and let them have fun not being PC, and they're happy.
That's a fair trade.
Are you ok with Virginia guv enabling all those felons to vote?
Only ten states generally ban felons who have completed their sentence from voting. So denying voting rights to felons who have completed their sentence is the exception, not the rule.
They seemed to be starting to figure it out*. But, this DJT angle (i.e. so-called populist w/o deviating from pro-rich) should keep them sated. And, the anti-PC stuff is thrown in, just to be sure.
* DJT probably actually read what BHO said in 08: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they’re misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to ‘white working-class don’t wanna work — don’t wanna vote for the black guy.’ That’s...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it’s sort of a race thing.
Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).
But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What’s the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is — so, we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide health care for every American. So we’ll go down a series of talking points.
But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.
"large population, innovative, successful blue states"
Do tell...
"Do tell..."
Mississippi
Ha.
Sure Freder..and just happened to need rectifying right. now.
Maybe he means California. Lulz
Interesting story on Fox, the CEO of Grub Hub (home food delivery) has told his employees that if they voted for Trump, they need to resign.
That's because he believes in an inclusive work force. Not people who want to divide.
PB&J -
NAEP - Math, 2015, 8th Grade (Only comparable Math test data)
Largest States - but also throwing in Wisconsin for fun.
California White 291
California Black 260
California Hisp 263
New York White 290
New York Black 264
New York Hisp 268
Wisconsin White 296
Wisconsin Black 249
Wisconsin Hisp 271
Texas White 298
Texas Black 267
Texas Hisp 277
Don't mess with Texas
BHO latched onto a house in D.C. a few months back, did he not? Once a rabble-rousing community organizer, always a ...
Well, time to boycott Grub Hub if true.
The College Board does not provide ethnically disassociated statistics by State, because it may be a bit too eye-opening, but private info also indicates - don't mess with Texas.
Then he rubbed his nose with his middle finger.
If Obama stays quiet, I will praise. If he acts like Peanut and Bubba, he lies again.
Buw,
Fine. Whatevs.
That has nothing to do w/ what I'm saying: as long as the poor* folks in small states keep voting for stuff that helps rich folks in blue states, the electoral college (and the Senate, and Rs rigging congressional districts), is cool.
*From a certain blue state POV, "poor" includes normal income folks. Sorry for the sloppiness in some of my comments, when forgetting this isn't a given everywhere.
Having your cake and eating it too ain't so bad.
Anywho, it's nice to know that rural DJTers are happy. Sure, a lot of banking regulations are assumed to be toast. And tax cuts with the big dough going to rich folks is the plan. And, who cares about deficits, it's not like that's a big deal when you're diversified (i.e. holdings and dough overseas).
And look how happy the normal, rural Rs are.
And, w/ DJT scapegoats aplenty (Mexis, MSM, Libs, Moooslims, etc) even when things don't get better for these folks, this should be an uber long run.
Cool stuff.
Meehhhh, what difference, at this point, does it make about Putin?
If dems were that concerned, should have voted for Mitt instead of Mr. Flexibility.
Besides Bubba sold us to China in the 90s.
"rich folks in large population, innovative, successful blue states"
The large population, successful blue states are generally rather awful for the non-rich majority of their populations. The wildest GINI coefficients in the US are :
50 New York 0.499
51 District of Columbia 0.532
Conversely, Median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (as usually used in international comparisons)
New York is, practically speaking, comparable to South Carolina (2009 PPP adjusted with the MERIC Index)
South Carolina $42,997
New York $42,606
And California to Louisiana
Louisiana $44,193
California $44,456
Note; I kicked off doing this US State-PPP some ten-twelve years ago with several index series, settling on MERIC as the most useful. I'm not sure who did the Wiki version.
"Rs rigging congressional districts"
Congressional districts are rigged for the purpose of electing black legislators, as intended by the 1965 Voting Rights Act. So the law requires districts with black supermajorities.
And if these were to be more equitably redistricted most black congresspersons would lose their seats, so they have been generally opposed to this.
This is one of those cases of "beware what you wish for". And there is no option to have your cake and eat it too.
buw,
Again, who cares?
As long as Mississippi, and the like, keeps voting for more tax cuts and less oversight that benefits rich folks in blue states w/ big dough innovators, it's all good in the hood.
Some folks say that the end of earmarks made it harder for congress to work, because deal making was harder. I think this is awesome because it means that the Rs need to pass the big benefits for their rich-folk funders, but they're more limited in their ability to mooch off the federal budget for their smaller, poorer, less productive, less innovative, less federal dough paying states.
Lovin' it.
Does GrubHub still deliver to Trump supporters. That seems to be the question that should be asked the CEO.
How many stockholders are Trump supporters? Time to make them miserable.
The disconnect is astounding.
"Again, who cares?"
You do. Its those rich folks in blue states that are the soul and core of the Democratic party.
They treat their own neighbors as poorly as they do all those country bumpkins.
Buwaya,
Don't bother Jelly with details.
He has a narrative to spin.
Anywho..whatevs.
Cool! He can pardon himself!
Wednesday's speech, the next president at the end, now president-elect.
Does he not want to sat Trump for some reason?
While Maloney seemingly calls out Trump supporters at his company on the one hand, the young CEO boasted about the company’s supportive and inclusive culture on the other, saying he “firmly believes that we must bring together different perspectives.”
Well..you know...DIFFERENT...not DEPLORABLE!
Of course, maybe the workplace isn't the place to focus on that to begin with.
I find it interesting a certain leftist poster is completely obsessed over Trump's alleged connections with the Russians.
Interesting in the fact she openly cheered for said 'Russians' during the entire Cold War.
GWash is entitled to his own opinions, and I gather that George W. Bush is not high on his list of favorite presidents, but he is not entitled to his own facts. Bush took office as we were sliding into a recession following the dot-com bust, and he jumped right on it, keeping it modest and recovering from it rapidly. You can look it up.
Buw,
IMHO, a good chunk of DJT's voters were signing on to a so-called drain the swamp philosophy re the federal gov.
As I've consistently noted in these threads, he's actually offering a make the rich richer plan, because, of course (as DJT knows), the rich are rich because they're smarter, work harder, and deserve what they've got because they're not losers.
Anywho, the stock market is rejoicing because DJT will be unshackling the bankers (even though his closing two minute ad was anti-bank). And, the market, being short-termers, are loving that he'll be using deficits to spend us well past a debt of 100% of GDP.
Anywho, it's cool to have what it means to be a so-called conservative (i.e. R) redefined. And, y'all went so eagerly, too.
" rich are rich because they're smarter, work harder, and deserve what they've got because they're not losers."
The rich, these days, are so disproportionately because they exploit regulations and legislation. This is not controversial.
Lobbyists Are Behind the Rise in Corporate Profits
James Bessen
Harvard Business Review
https://hbr.org/2016/05/lobbyists-are-behind-the-rise-in-corporate-profits
This explains, entirely, why the PTB, those "rich people in blue states" support the Democrats. More regulation = more barriers to entry = greater profit margins, i.e., monopoly or near-monopoly profits. Standard MBA School business strategy.
A pretty speech by Obama, but as I said many times before you need to ignore what he says and watch what he does.
He is virtue signaling to his own side, which is important. The media has behaved very badly and he is trying to get them to be more respectful and open-minded. I was very impressed that he did this. And in particular I was impressed by his mention of George W. Bush, which he did not have to do. There was no political benefit to saying nice things about W, as we transition from Obama to Trump. So in my mind it was just a classy and cool move. "W was nice to me, so I am being nice to you."
The Clintons were never this classy when they left office. Not even close.
monopoly or near-monopoly profits
A condition fostered and protected by the government, which is antithetical to a functional capitalist economy, and is historically a first-order cause of catastrophic anthropogenic economic corrections... and, some believe, unaffordable health care.
Fabi said...
Unknown's failure tears are a delicious addition to my Trump Victory Martini!
11/10/16, 3:28 PM
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at Unknown's desperate flailing.
Normally, I wouldn't advise mixing whine with martinis, but this is just so wonderful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grD_IINiH9c
What a wonderful week. The Cubs win the WS and now this. My sides hurt from laughing.
MadisonMan said...
Does GrubHub still deliver to Trump supporters. That seems to be the question that should be asked the CEO
CEO is Matt Maloney as in baloney. Give him a call and let us know what he says...
GrubHub Inc.
111 West Washington Street
Suite 2100
Chicago, IL 60602
United States
877-585-7878
http://www.grubhub.com
Blogger Matthew Sablan said...
This blog is a ridiculously non-racist, non-sexist place.
You are using the actual meanings of the words sexist and racist. GWalsh defines sexist and racist as people that disagree with him.
Standard miscommunication.
Shouldn't I expect all outgoing administrations to do whatever is necessary to ensure a smooth transition? I give no points to Obama for flowery speech; his actions all too often belie his words. He spent weeks on the campaign trail denigrating the man who will take his place. He's been nasty and abusive--I can't think of another outgoing president who behaved as he has. He ranted and fumed at the people who attended his rallies. He told them they owed him. He spent far more time talking about himself than the candidate he supposedly was there to represent. As far as he was concerned, this election was all about him, him and his legacy. So very typical of the man. Well, he got his teeth kicked in on Tuesday and his legacy is crumbling around him. Good. It deserves to crumble.
Interesting story on Fox, the CEO of Grub Hub (home food delivery) has told his employees that if they voted for Trump, they need to resign.
I read his memo. If I were one of his employees who voted for Trump, I would say my employer was creating a hostile workplace environment. (I also saw his picture--another pantywaist girly-man pajama boy.) The CEO of Starbucks, who publicly endorsed Clinton, sent a bizarre memo around to his employees, too. Our captains of industry.
@lemondog
If you go to GrubHub's website you can link to its Facebook page and leave a message there. I just did.
Blogger Saint Croix said...
The Clintons were never this classy when they left office. Not even close.
--
They're not gone yet...we'll see.
Interesting in the fact she openly cheered for said 'Russians' during the entire Cold War.
Actually, she cheered for the Communists in the Cold War, she didn't give a shit about the Russian people.
They're not gone yet...we'll see
Despite the myriad of issues I have with Obama, I don't think he's going to allow his staff to vandalize and loot the White House like Slick Willie did.
Does GrubHub still deliver to Trump supporters
Yes, they just spit into the food first.
A Trump voter would be wise to employ a food taster if he orders from GrubHub.
SukieTawdry said... The CEO of Starbucks, who publicly endorsed Clinton, sent a bizarre memo around to his employees, too. Our captains of industry.
11/10/16, 6:02 PM
I just read it. It doesn't seem bizarre to me in light of everything leading up to the election, and events since Trump's victory. The outrageous inciting rhetoric that Howard Schultz himself employs has frenzied his progressive young workforce into hysteria. As a businessman, he now sees the danger- Mass sick-outs as his employees need time off to recover and riot, Acts of anti-corporate sabotage i.e, intentionally shitty service, insolence and confrontations, increases in employee theft and vandalism, etc. This statement seems an attempt to restrain the monster he helped create.
"rich folks in large population, innovative, successful blue states"
With the possible exception of lily-white Vermont, blue states are blue because of large, urban, welfare-dependent populations. Full stop. Without the Free Stuff vote, Democrats wouldn't have won a national election since 1932.
"Is this a translation from the original Kenyanese?"
OK, that's funny.
Well..Schultz benefits by getting some lefty cred. It's the left that protests a Starbucks opening.
"Is this a translation from the original Kenyanese?"
Swahili, most common language there.
My aunt the nun speaks it, along with about 15 other languages.
One day while she was visiting, we found her at the door chatting to a deliveryman in Thai.
Cracker,
It's cool that so many R states are fed gov net moochers.
But, if they ever start to over mooch, then this electoral college (and Senate and R rigged congressional seats) thing will get old pretty quick, from the POV of their bill payers (e.g. DJT in NY). The great thing about this DJT-is-a-populist angle is that these folks don't seem into fussing about the ever increasing tax cuts and reg cutting for the coast rich folks, as they continue to stagnate or fall. All they want is to huff and puff, put a Gadsden flag on their truck and talk dirty.
Carry on.
Please, carry on.
BTW, unless it isn't obvious, it doesn't matter that DJT isn't actually a fed income tax bill payer because he's using money that was actually lost by others.
As many cons (and Althosue) noted, DJT was just following the law. So, y'all are still moocher losers compared to DJT's view of himself and his ilk. And, you agree: more tax cuts for the overburdened rich job creators, like DJT!!
Awesome!
He's smart.
You're.....
The great thing about the American electoral system is that it's setup to make it easier to buy.
If the whole thing was based on all votes being equally weighted, the losers would have taken over a long time ago. Like Europe.
Jelly's on a roll...
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/305362-russia-we-talked-with-trumps-team-during-campaign
Russia says it kept in touch with Donald Trump’s presidential campaign before the Republican nominee’s White House win.
“There were contacts,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news service Thursday, according to multiple reports.
"Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Rybakov said.
“Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”
“We continue this work of course,” he added, without providing further details of the “contacts” between Russia and Trump’s staff.
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told Bloomberg that Russian Embassy staff met with Trump’s campaign, calling it “normal practice.”
Zakharova added that Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton refused similar requests for discussions.
"It's cool that so many R states are fed gov net moochers."
Which doesn't negate my point.
Carry on.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-campaign-moscow-russia-contacts-231168
"Russia’s deputy foreign minister said Thursday that officials from his government were in contact with Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, contradicting pledges from the president-elect that he had not interacted with the Kremlin despite numerous statements praising Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told the state-run Interfax news agency in an interview reported on by The Washington Post. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”"
"Russia says it kept in touch with Donald Trump’s presidential campaign before the Republican nominee’s White House win."
Dude, try harder. Of course major powers are going to want to start establishing a relationship with potential Presidents. Not sinister, even in your grieving, somewhat deranged state.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/report-russia-talked-with-trump-and-clinton-campaigns.html
"The Kremlin talked with the Trump campaign on a “sufficient, responsible level,” reports Bloomberg. Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said that the Russian embassy reached out to both Clinton and Trump camps as part of “routine” outreach.
Based on Russia’s telling, diplomats might have had a bit more luck with team Trump, though it’s unclear what was discussed or whom officials met with on the Trump campaign. “Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Rybakov said on a state-run news agency, according to the Washington Post. “Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives.”"
Maybe Althouse can draw a Russian rat laughing.
"It's cool that so many R states are fed gov net moochers."
Er, this is one of the dumbest ideas floating out there.
Fed taxes are disproportionately paid by rich people and corporations which are not evenly distributed around the country. They very very disproportionately live in/are headquartered in rich areas of blue states, notably New York and California. Their income however derives from operations and markets in all states.
If each state were an independent country and was permitted to tax Microsoft as, for instance, the Europeans do, on the business they transact in their countries, most of this discrepancy will go away.
Buw,
You're saying the same thing I'm saying. I.e., as long as the R states keep voting to benefit rich folks in the blue states, w/ only an allowable mooch (unlike socialist Europe), then the electoral college (and Senate, and rigged House) is cool.
P.S. you will be shocked to learn that big blue dough is made from sales around the globe, i.e. if Mississippi (et. al.) got only the benefit from their share of sales = peanuts.
Just sayin.
"Maybe he just spent 90 minutes w/ a guy who during that conversation made it clear that he's not prepared to be POTUS"
Eight years too late.
Oh, you meant Trump.
I love that the lefties are arguing that Trump is unqualified.
Remember, this is the same crew that told us 8 years ago that the simple act of running and winning the election is the only qualification necessary.
Yes indeed, a gargantuan Fens Law example, as if we needed anymore.
Btw, All Franken was on CNN today to helpfully explain that all the problems with obambicare is the fault of the Republicans.
Cuz "logic"
EMD,
You, didn't read the comments.
You're super late.
Please stop posting the same drivel over and over, Unknown.
So, we need to establish Obama's legacy.
It can't be Obamacare, cuz it's broke.
Cash-for-Clunkers? Because pouring sand into the oil of a Corvette is a good idea.
Peace in the Middle East? Thousands of lives upset, and migrating.
Hillary Clinton?
I'm thinking Hillary Clinton, cuz that is the gift that keeps giving!!
Obama's legacy is losing the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the majority of state legislatures, the majority of governorships, and decimating the democrat back bench. I'm impressed!
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