November 4, 2016

Can Bernie help Hillary?

Look at the body language in this photograph (at the NYT). The chairs are set on the stage with room between them, so that the candidates could sit squarely on the seats and be close enough without touching, but both candidates sit off center. Bernie is quite far over to the side, and he's also crossing his leg away from her and high up on the knee to create a barrier which is fortified by his arm stretched all the way out across the leg. His other hand is in his pocket. Hillary, for her part, is turned away from Bernie, and she has her ankles crossed and her hands clasped in her lap.

The accompanying article, published today, is titled "Presidential Election: Any Surprises Left?" The political preference of the NYT is hilariously highlighted by the 2 headings: "Will the stars align for Mrs. Clinton?" and "Will the K.K.K. return to front and center?" As to the "stars"* aligning, the "surprise" for Hillary is that Pharrell Williams, Jay Z, and Katy Perry are performing at rallies, "working hard to drum up interest among millennial voters." And the political stars, Obama, Biden, and Bernie are doing events.

Judging from the photograph, Bernie is withholding his full and open support. Perhaps he knows that the passion and heightened consciousness that he inspired cannot simply be handed to Hillary Clinton. Or perhaps Bernie had recently read that newly leaked email:
In February, longtime Clinton adviser and Democratic insider Joel Johnson had sent an email to Clinton campaign head John Podesta, emphasizing, “Bernie needs to be ground to a pulp. We can’t start believing our own primary bullshit. This is no time to run the general. Crush him as hard as you can.”

Just after Salon reported Johnson’s message on Thursday morning, however, the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks released another trove of emails to and from Podesta. In this new batch of messages appeared Podesta’s response to Johnson’s advice.

“I agree with that in principle,” Podesta wrote in reply to Johnson’s “no mercy” email.

“Where would you stick the knife in?” Podesta asked....

Johnson proposed portraying Sanders as an “Obama betrayer,” noting that the White House would help affirm the talking point. He also said Sanders should be depicted as a “hapless legislator,” which other members of Congress would help affirm; a “false promiser,” which “policy elites” would affirm; and as someone who is unable to win, which “black people will affirm.”

* Did you know that when you're a star, they let you do anything?


M Jordan said...

Bernie Sanders is what every socialist ever was from Karl Marx on down: a person who loves the cafe life while pretending to be of the people. Sanders is, IMHO, the biggest loser in this entire cycle with Gary Johnson a close second.

rehajm said...

With lefties it's always about the pecking order. At the top the pecking order decides who gets what job. Below the top the pecking order decides who gets ground to a pulp.

bleh said...

Do liberals who oppose the Citizens United ruling think Jay Z and Katy Perry ought to be allowed to donate their very valuable professional services to help elect a candidate?

MikeR said...

"We can’t start believing our own primary b__t." Can someone explain this line? If I'm guessing it right, it sounds as damning as anything: We have a whole line of b__t for the primary which none of us really believes.
Do progressives know this deep down? Suckers.

David Begley said...

Bernie in Omaha tonight but I will be at a Creighton basketball game. The Dems have a theory that Omaha's one Electoral College vote can go for Hillary. (Nebraska is like Maine. Inexplicable.) Warren Buffett has paid for a voter transportation project in Omaha. I wonder if Warren and Bernie get together today. The rally is in the Hispanic part of town.

Sebastian said...

Bernie can help Hillary, but Hillary can help Bernie more. Or grind him to a pulp. As she did. Charming characters, those Dems. GOPe, take note.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Pathetic that Bernie is falling in line.

Jupiter said...

"Perhaps he knows that the passion and heightened consciousness that he inspired cannot simply be handed to Hillary Clinton."

The spectacle of the loser praising the winner, whom he so recently compared unfavorably to a pile of dogshit, is a perennial spectacle of party politics. It is customary to attribute this to "party loyalty", which means loyalty to the values and programs of the Party. One usually assumes that the loser is making the best of a bad situation, with an eye to the future. In Sanders case, I have a hard time seeing what possible future could be worth kissing a pile of dogshit in the ever-fleeting present. Sanders seems to be having the same problem. Pucker up, Bernie!

Curious George said...

Things Trump didn't say:

"I got ninety nine problems but a bitch ain't one"

"You know I thug em, fuck em, love em, leave em
Cause I don't fuckin' need em
Take em out the hood, keep em lookin' good
But I don't fuckin' feed em"

"One thing I ask of you
Lemme be the one you bring that ass up to
From Malibu to Paris, boo
Had a bitch, but she ain't bad as you
So, hit me up when you passin' through
I'll give you something big enough to tear your ass in two"

shiloh said...

Althouse, welcome to presidential politics as it appears this is your first presidential election.

Whereas Kasich has already said he voted for McCain in Ohio and several endangered Rep senators are turning into pretzels over who they're gonna vote for, etc. etc.

Indeed, as Trump is quite the conundrum for Reps.


Obama to Hillary (8) years ago ~ She's likable enough! and then picks her for Sec of State. ***shocking!*** The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

When Dems start a Never Hillary movement then they should start worrying.

Lucien said...

The "Stronger Together" banner behind Clinton and Sanders plays well with their body language. Does the evidence of wear on Hillary's shoe say: a) "See, I can walk without being held up by at least two people"; or b)"Props to Adlai Stevenson"?

traditionalguy said...

Saving Hillary Clinton is the last thing on anyone's mind now. Everybody viscerally hates her. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

madAsHell said...

Gee Whiz.....doesn't that make Jay-Z some kind of Uncle Tom??

Truthavenger said...

That picture of Bernie and Hillary in the NY Times looks like your grandparents at the family reunion, waiting to take their nap.

And the Democrats are the party of youth and vigor?

Bay Area Guy said...

Poor Bernie and his supporters. They should have stayed firm and run as a 3rd Party. Instead, the appeased the Beast, and will now answer to her (unless Trump pulls off the upset!)

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

If you support Hillary, you are as corrupt as she is. Sorry Bernie - you've proven yourself to be a fraud.

dreams said...

At least this liberal actress appears to have some integrity.

"Actress Susan Sarandon on Thursday tore into the Democratic National Committee (DNC), calling it "completely corrupt."

“After my experience in the primary, it’s very clear to me the DNC is gone,” she told CNN's Carol Costello."

shiloh said...

"Everybody viscerally hates her."

Hyperbole aside indeed, as Althouse has already stated she will hate the next president regardless.

Althouse, are you sad cons at your site are full of hate? Rhetorical.

ok, ok, as long as they keep showing up Rep/cons can hate anyone ad nauseam bless their whittle hearts ...


After the election maybe Althouse should start an Anger Management program for long time disgruntled Republicans. For a nominal fee.

Just a thought.

JPS said...


"'We can’t start believing our own primary b__t.' Can someone explain this line? If I'm guessing it right, it sounds as damning as anything: We have a whole line of b__t for the primary which none of us really believes."

dreams sort of made this point above, but do you recall the WikiLeaks where Mrs. Clinton refers to the need for a public and a private position? It's sort of like that. And that distinction made it crystal clear for me why organizations pay her six-figure sums for less than an hour of boilerplate. Even if they're not buying future favors, they're paying to know what her private position is. It's a kind of insider trading that hasn't formally been outlawed yet: OK, if she gets elected, here's what she'll really want to do.

"Do progressives know this deep down? Suckers."

No, they're just fully comfortable with the concept of taqiyya. This is why there was no outrage on the left that President Obama went from supporting gay marriage, to believing firmly that his Christian faith demands marriage be between one man and one woman, to his more-recent-than-Dick-Cheney conversion to supporting and pushing it. They knew the initial conversion was purely for political consumption.

It's also why most on the left aren't more outraged that Mrs. Clinton supported the Iraq war. Sure, young Bernie! supporters will say this makes her a warmonger. Older and wiser folks understand it was a tactical vote by her and so many other Democrats. They never believed in it, they just couldn't let the Republicans outflank them on the national security issue as they had in 2002, and after it all went south they explained they'd been lied to. Or they voted to recognize the president's authority to start a war, but that was completely different than voting for the war.

If you're a progressive in a country that isn't yet majority-progressive, you support fooling the rubes (even or especially on your own side), gaining power, then using that power for good (which, by definition, progressives do).

madAsHell said...

Bernie's best speech was on

JPS said...

dreams, 8:32:

Thank you for reminding me: With honorable exceptions. Reading that reminds me when I'm painting with too broad a brush.

(Speaking of honorable exceptions, we disagree on ~ everything but I've never read a comment where Robert Cook carries water for anyone.)

shiloh said...

btw, Nate still has NV/NC/FL as toss-ups although leaning Dem so keep hope alive!

Oh I'm sorry, Hillary doesn't need these states to become the first female president of the United States of America!


Goldenpause said...

Bernie is doing what he thinks he needs to do to stay politically viable. The guy seems to have forgotten that he is 75 years old and has no serious political future regardless of whether he stands on principle (refuses to support the woman who cheated to beat him for the nomination) or goes full Benedict Arnold on his primary supporters and supports her in return for what he thinks will be a place at the Clinton table. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

John henry said...

When you are a star (or a president) stupid young girls will let you use their mouth as a semenal sewer.

Here's looking at you, Monica.

John Henry

marybeth said...

I'm impressed that Katy Perry show enthusiasm for Clinton now that she knows she's "plan B".

MikeR said...

Shiloh, 538 gives Trump one chance in three. Do you disagree? Are you offering to give anyone 100:1 odds in favor of Clinton? Easy money!

John henry said...

I thought Bernie withdrew his support for Crooked Hilary? Did he give it again?

As for needing to stay viable, as someone said: For what? His Senate seat is safe. If he loses he can retire with a pension from the Senate. If the Dems tried to run someone for his seat, it would probably backfire. Bernie is fairly well liked in the state and, even if he were not, Vermonters don't take kindly to meddling.

He can afford to be independent.

Bernie never was a member of the Democrat Party until December last year. Maybe not even then. Since losing the nomination, he has reverted to calling himself an independent. If revert is the right word. On his campaign website, Wikipedia and Senate pages he never stopped calling himself an independent.

What can Crooked Hilary possibly do for or to him if she is elected?

John Henry

Gusty Winds said...

Bernie looks about as enthusiastic as the rest of his supporters who will have to drag themselves to the polls to vote for Hillary.

He also knows he betrayed every principle he stood for during his campaign. He said the system was rigged. When it was proven that the system was rigged against him, and his supporters, he grabbed his ankles and let the DNC and Hillary stick it in his ass. That will be his legacy.

In the most important moment of his life, when he could have walked with his supporters out of the Democrat convention and continued the movement he'd started, he wimped out.

The photos show a man who knows he sold his soul. He looks like a guy who's thinking, maybe I should have taken her on like Trump has.

John henry said...

* Did you know that when you're a star, they let you do anything?

Just by way of no harm, Ann, the key word there is "let". Let you sodomize them, let you grab them by the pussy, whatever.

When someone let's you do something, they have given permission. If they have given permission, it can't be assault, sexual or otherwise.

John Henry

MadisonMan said...

Nice nod to Adlai in Hillary's shoe. Lucien and I saw the same thing.

Barry Dauphin said...

Which reporter will ask Bernie about his reaction to knowing the HRC campaign viewed him this way?

mccullough said...

Bernie is a prop. She should have bought him a bigger summer house if she wanted better body language out of him.

shiloh said...

Speaking of Robert Cook what exactly is he. Anarchist? Communist? Marxist? Socialist? Wealth distributor? All-round nice guy? Inquiring minds ...

Trying to think of all the Althouse Dems who post on a "regular" basis:

Unknown and her many maturations/aliases / Freder / Once Written, twice / readering / American politico / phx ? / HT ? / ARM ? / pb&j ? / Ritmo /

? = not sure they're liberal.

Post very seldom or stopped posting:

machine / somefeller / dcm / Victoria / roesch/voltaire / AF / Jake Diamond / Roberto / Cedarford /

Indeed, the list is ***longgg*** and quite exclusive! If I missed anyone feel free to add.

Whatever happened to garage mahal? Did he come to his good senses and stop wasting time posting here?


Looked at 2012 1600+ post election thread 1600+ to see if I missed anyone. garage said a little after 8 PM ~ Obama hits 85% on Intrade.

Palladian refers back a couple days after the 2008 election to an Althouse I ♥ Mitt Romney. offering. I ♥ Willard offered her variation.


My offering to the 2008 thread: ((( Laura Ingraham To GOP: 'If You Can't Beat Obama With This Record, Then Shut Down The Party' ))).

I digress.

shiloh said...

"Shiloh, 538 gives Trump one chance in three. Do you disagree? Are you offering to give anyone 100:1 odds in favor of Clinton? Easy money!"

Don't wager or make predictions in general. ***If*** I were to make a prediction would say the Hillary campaign should feel very good re: NC/FL/NV/CO/PA/NH.

It's not just polls Nate takes into consideration, but also historical trends, the economy, current president's approval rating, ethnic groups, etc.

Plus each party's GOTV effort. ok, Hillary's GOTV machine as Trump appears to have bypassed this presidential election process.


Interesting CBS News/NY Times currently has Obama with 54/40 job approval rating and congress at 15/76 disapproval. Also wrong track +26 soooo voters think we're heading in the wrong direction, but who do the blame? Congress and Reps control congress.

shiloh said...


Should be ~ My offering to the 2012 thread:

Dems are winning soooo many presidential elections it's hard to keep track.

AllenS said...

If I had been a "Bernie Bro", and believed Sanders was for real, right now, I'd be thinking that I was a damned fool.

JPS said...

shiloh, 10:26:

"Interesting CBS News/NY Times currently has Obama with 54/40 job approval rating and congress at 15/76 disapproval. Also wrong track +26 soooo voters think we're heading in the wrong direction, but who do the blame?"

That is interesting, because it suggests by definition that Obama is not an effective chief executive: The country's on the wrong track but it's not his fault!

Lots of presidents have had lousy Congresses full of paycheck-stealing oxygen thieves to contend with. The good ones overcome.

shiloh said...

"Lots of presidents have had lousy Congresses full of paycheck-stealing oxygen thieves to contend with. The good ones overcome."

Tip O'Neill did not hate/despise Dutch and was interested in compromise and improving America.

Boehner/Ryan not so much. Hell, Ryan will be lucky to keep his job as TP'ers want radical revolution. Also, GOP’s Anti-Obama Campaign Started Night Of 2009 Inauguration.

It wasn't so much the fact they thought Obama was an uppity Black man. Rather he was a Democrat and as mentioned previously, Reps feel they should win every presidential election regardless.

Plus the fact most hardcore con Reps ie a majority hate/despise Obama.


btw, how did that making Obama a one term president work out?

Back to the drawing board ...

JPS said...


"Tip O'Neill did not hate/despise Dutch and was interested in compromise and improving America."

Kyle Smith writes:

"[Chris Matthews] cites as evidence a book that makes Tip O’Neill seem like a nice guy: Tip O’Neill’s memoirs."

shiloh said...

I don't like Trump. Doesn't mean I hate/despise him.

Indeed, Tip and Dutch agreed on basically nothing politically but they found a way to work together to get things done. What a concept!

Frenemies: A Love Story

No, my father and Reagan weren’t close friends. Famously, after 6 p.m. on quite a few work days, they would sit down for drinks at the White House. But it wasn’t the drinks or the conversation that allowed American government to work. Instead, it was a stubborn refusal not to allow fund-raisers, activists, party platforms or ideological chasms to stand between them and actions — tempered and improved by compromise — that kept this country moving.

Political career and views

and later (Matthews) worked for six years as Chief of Staff to longtime Speaker of the House of Representatives Tip O'Neill, playing a direct role in many key political battles with the Reagan Administration.

Kyle Smith

So Kyle Smith had no personal contact with either Tip or Dutch unlike Matthews who worked directly with both on a daily basis.

I yield back the balance of my time.

JPS said...

Ah, OK. O'Neill didn't hate or despise Reagan. He just thought he was “callous,” a “tightwad,” an “Ebenezer Scrooge” and a flat-out “evil” man “who has no care and no concern for the working class of America.”

Kyle Smith may not have known either man. Michael Deaver knew both:

“They left the dining room with their arms around each other’s waist...and Tip went out on the South Lawn and beat the s–t out of Reagan with the press.”

But yeah, Reagan was lucky O'Neill didn't hate him the way Boehner and Ryan hate Obama.

tcrosse said...

Bernie helped HRC immeasurably by giving her a pass on her emails.

shiloh said...


Reading comprehension is the key to good debating skills ie did not say Ryan/Boehner hate Obama. Said, most hardcore con Reps ie a majority hate/despise Obama.

Which is why Boehner was fed-up and resigned mid-term and Ryan will probably be bounced from Speaker in Jan. Boehner doesn't/didn't hate anyone. Just give him a good bottle of liquor on the old course at St. Andrews and he's a happy camper.

And Ryan has been probably ruing the day he agreed to become Speaker for the past 7/8 mos. er when Trump looked like the presumptive Rep nominee.

What a tangles web Trump has weaved ...

shiloh said...

Add Left Bank of the Charles to my liberal list.

My fav lib poster would have to be machine as he shows up for a fly-by infrequently and is quite pithy.

stay classy San Diego!

Less is more ...