Althouse: "Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders..."

September 21, 2015

"Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders..."

"... who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally 'boy play,' and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene — in some cases, not even when their Afghan allies have abused boys on military bases, according to interviews and court records."

"At night we can hear them screaming, but we’re not allowed to do anything about it..."

115 comments:

glenn said...: Then We Should Leave.

Tell 'em that if they attack us we'll kill them all. And leave. And don't let them come here.; 9/21/15, 1:07 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: There is a horrifying comment at the NYT. Has 15 likes and is a NYT pick. Althousians, go play scavenger hunt and see if you can find what I'm talking about.; 9/21/15, 1:08 PM
buwaya said...: What did I say about the nature of even unorthodox Islam ?
The Pathans brought this with them when they conquered the Kalash pagans of Nuristan a century ago.
(The people of Kiplings "Man Who Would Be King")
The Taliban actually tried to suppress this stuff.; 9/21/15, 1:13 PM
n.n said...: Every culture has its pro-choice (i.e. selective principles) doctrine and tolerated, even normalized, dysfunctional behaviors. The Muslims have pedophilia. The Chinese have one-child. The liberal societies have selective-child.; 9/21/15, 1:14 PM
Alexander said...: What percent flooding Europe now is Afghans. 5-10%? Of course, to some the sight of white European boys being raped would be a feature not a bug.

The moral imperative is not to bring our culture to them. It never was possible and it never was practiced. Quite the opposite, we are training our own people to be immoral by actively assisting in the cover up and supporting these people.

The moral imperative is to keep this out of our own lands.; 9/21/15, 1:16 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Never mind. I just went to look for it and it is gone now. It said, essentially, that the only reason kids are harmed from being sexually abused is that it's culturally inappropriate. And since it's appropriate in Afghanistan, there's no indication these children are actually hurt by the practice. Went on to compare it to signing your kid up for football. I kid you not.; 9/21/15, 1:17 PM
Nonapod said...: It's terrifying to me that there are presumably very high level American military people who are looking the other way from acts of unquestionably pure evil and punishing those who dare to stand up against it. I would like to believe that our military is run by people who are generally morally sound.; 9/21/15, 1:21 PM
JAORE said...: Oh you judgmental people. Tsk, tsk.; 9/21/15, 1:21 PM
pm317 said...: If there is a hell on earth, it is these middle eastern countries.; 9/21/15, 1:22 PM
ObeliskToucher said...: Charles James Napier, referring to the practice of suttee: "Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

Applicable here, with some amendment and extensions... but that was a simpler time.; 9/21/15, 1:22 PM
Amichel said...: "Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

Oh for another Charles Napier!; 9/21/15, 1:23 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: Some people in the U.S. government think they can only fight one thing at a time.; 9/21/15, 1:24 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: How is this evidence that we should leave? If anything, this is evidence that we should stay and impose certain values.; 9/21/15, 1:26 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: Also, technically, doing something about it would be interfering with Afghanistan's independence. It's amatter for Afghan law enforecement.

The story told of a case where aman raped a 14 or 15 year old girl.

He was sentenced to one day in jail, and to marry the girl (probably without the possibility of divorce); 9/21/15, 1:27 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Yeah we will only interfere with other cultures when it resticts access to abortion or birth control.; 9/21/15, 1:27 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: Pedophilia, especially with boys, is not Afghan culture, but it may explain what emboldened some people to become soldiers and war lords.; 9/21/15, 1:29 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Start hanging child rapists and install tetherball courts. Stay until the term "boy play" means tetherball because boys play it and because it vaguely resembles what happens to men who engage in what (by then) used to be called "boy play."; 9/21/15, 1:29 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: Yeah we will only interfere with other cultures when it resticts access to abortion or birth control

By paying for it.

Both abortion and pedophilia are extensions of liberty,you might say.; 9/21/15, 1:30 PM
Gahrie said...: If we are going to start judging cultures again, can we at least agree that U.S. middle class culture provides the most freedoms with the highest standard of living for the most number of people?; 9/21/15, 1:31 PM
Paddy O said...: I'm fairly conservative in my approach to military use and politics. I'm patriotic and love my country.

This story makes me deeply ashamed of America. Nothing we are doing is worth it if we are looking the other way while such things happen. If we are not willing to stop such abuse, we have nothing to offer, we have no hope to give. Quinn is a hero who is too good to serve under those who support such doctrines.

We're already there disrupting the society. Let's disrupt the evil wherever it is found or we deserve every bit of shame and dishonor such evil brings.; 9/21/15, 1:33 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: I wonder if Carly Fiorina saw the video.; 9/21/15, 1:34 PM
Gusty Winds said...: Dan Quinn was relieved of his Special Forces command after a fight with a U.S.-backed militia leader who had a boy as a sex slave chained to his bed.

In "A Few Good Men" the Marines on trial were found not guilty of murder in the court martial but found guilty of conduct unbecoming a Marine. Downey couldn't understand what they did wrong and Dawson sums up the entire movie by explaining, "We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy."

But that was just a movie.; 9/21/15, 1:37 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: "Stay until the term "boy play" means tetherball ..."

Or making digital clocks.

I am Laslo.; 9/21/15, 1:41 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: One New York Times comment, in part:

"If the best we can do is replace the Taliban with a bunch of drug-dealing pederasts, we need to get out and let the Afghans fend for themselves. At least then we won't be actively supporting the torture of children, and subjecting our soldiers to moral bankruptcy."

Of course, the New York Times did not indicate what percentage of our Afghan allies are like that. 1%? 3%? 15%?; 9/21/15, 1:41 PM
Hagar said...: Lord Napier could get away with suppressing suttee on his own because, with the communications of the day, all the home government could do was send him out there and hope for the best.

In today's world the home government is 24/7 looking over the shoulders of not just viceroys, but individual army privates. And the orders from home is not to be judgmental and do not interfere with local customs.

And even quite high-ranking officers will go before Congress and tell baldfaced lies, telling themselves they are not really lying, since it is not their own opinion; they are just expressing the Department's position.; 9/21/15, 1:45 PM
MadisonMan said...: God Bless the Marines who see this torture of children for what it is and speak out.

I hope my own children would be as outspoken if they saw it.; 9/21/15, 1:47 PM
Birches said...: I've seen this article floating around twitter and I cannot bring myself to read it.; 9/21/15, 1:49 PM
Unknown said...: I favor Charles James Napier's position as it related to Hindu priests complaining to him about the prohibition of Sati by British authorities.

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."; 9/21/15, 1:56 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Not only is it wrong to not intervene, as we're already there, it's wrong to tell our soldiers that they must ignore this. Talk about a morale killer. We want honorable people to be our soldiers, we get them, and then we ask them to act dishonorably. Outrageous.; 9/21/15, 1:58 PM
n.n said...: Class diversity is a legitimate reason to establish jurisdictional divisions.

That said, we have three choices: normalize, tolerate, or reject their orientation and behavior. In the first, we will assimilate their culture. In the second, we will ignore their diversity. In the third, we will intervene directly to quash their diversity.

Our national religious/moral orientation suggests choosing the last action. However, our State-established religious/moral orientation directs us to construct a congruence that will allow choosing either the first or second action with a clear conscience.; 9/21/15, 2:00 PM
TreeJoe said...: At what point - apparently in the last century - did we decide that we'd wage war while being completely subservient to what is claimed to be the local culture, or to whom we feel is a powerful local leader with interests aligned with ours?; 9/21/15, 2:02 PM
Big Mike said...: A competent Commander in Chief could fix this with a word. If he wanted to. And if he was competent.; 9/21/15, 2:05 PM
Jaq said...: There are 7 or 8 billion people in this world. Many of them dying on account of delusions regarding GMOs, or DDT, or CO2 on the part of Western liberals.

We can't fix them all. I would announce a new policy. "Fuck with us and we will bomb you till we kill you, otherwise we leave you alone. "

If we had just poured another three or four days worth of bombs into Tora Bora, we might have made our point much more succinctly, and at the loss of many fewer American lives.; 9/21/15, 2:06 PM
Sebastian said...: Forcing troops to stand by while boy play is going on is a Prog two-fer: it shows multiculti sensitivity and it destroys troop morale, setting up (I guess a three-fer) the inevitable "we ugly Americans can't win, let's get out."; 9/21/15, 2:09 PM
walter said...: "there's no indication these children are actually hurt by the practice."
Yeah..other than the screams...and maybe a prolapsed rectum.; 9/21/15, 2:09 PM
Mid-Life Lawyer said...: The Afghans should not be confronted for sexually assaulting children but we need to have a political crisis over the waterboarding of a handful of terrorists who have information that could save scores of American lives. Something doesn't line up right.; 9/21/15, 2:09 PM
Anonymous said...: The Taliban and Al Qaeda are know to knock the teeth out of little boys before indulging themselves. The teeth impede the rapists pleasure.

The madrassas across the border in Pakistan are factories for this kind of behavior.; 9/21/15, 2:11 PM
Michael said...: But Afghani restaurants are cool are they not? And the kites? They fly kites there. Ah, the mosaic.; 9/21/15, 2:15 PM
Mary Martha said...: The Catholic Church coverup and protection of child sexual abusers was evil (and I say that as a Catholic).

How is what the US Government is doing here any different?; 9/21/15, 2:17 PM
Mick said...: Who said Muslims weren't gay? Soetoro (the Usurper) is gay as they come, like the rest of the Muslims, who are raped as boys (isn't that what the "Uncle Frank" poem is about?). He is obsessed with the homo agenda, to the point of appointing a fag as Army Secretary, appointing bull dykes to the SCOTUS, and ramming "gay marriage down our throats.; 9/21/15, 2:22 PM
Louis said...: God has no comment; 9/21/15, 2:30 PM
Jaq said...: I think that we need to abrogate our prohibition on assassination as well. Why force the populace to take the pain of our anger directed at individuals.

It's not like the terrorists respect any such niceties. Attempts were made by Muslims on both George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton, though the Clinton attempt was not widely reported, as it was thwarted before he arrived at the place of the " wedding."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/philippines/6867331/Osama-bin-Laden-came-within-minutes-of-killing-Bill-Clinton.html; 9/21/15, 2:32 PM
jacksonjay said...: I thought President Smiley said something about "torture is not who we are." Doesn't this make him complicit? Is pederasty a recruitment incentive for these savages?; 9/21/15, 2:33 PM
AllenS said...: We can't even stop fetuses in this country from being cut up and their parts sold. This doesn't bother the politically correct people. Right?; 9/21/15, 2:33 PM
pm317 said...: A competent Commander in Chief could fix this with a word. If he wanted to. And if he was competent.

Apparently Trump said something about this well before the NYT article was published (a/c to another blog) -- I missed what he said.; 9/21/15, 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Nonapod said...
It's terrifying to me that there are presumably very high level American military people who are looking the other way from acts of unquestionably pure evil and punishing those who dare to stand up against it. I would like to believe that our military is run by people who are generally morally sound.

Do you think the issue and decision hasn't been made by the US Politicals at State and the WH?

To be clear, Napier did good.; 9/21/15, 2:36 PM
damikesc said...: Not only is it wrong to not intervene, as we're already there, it's wrong to tell our soldiers that they must ignore this. Talk about a morale killer. We want honorable people to be our soldiers, we get them, and then we ask them to act dishonorably. Outrageous.

Isn't it grand that all cultures are "equal"? Heck, Western culture is not any better than Afghan culture.

...of course, reading Salon, the Left is now trying to mainstream pedophilia...; 9/21/15, 2:40 PM
Fernandinande said...: Gahrie said...
If we are going to start judging cultures again, can we at least agree that U.S. middle class culture provides the most freedoms with the highest standard of living for the most number of people?

Unless you want the freedom to be a pedophile warlord, then it kinda sucks.

Sammy Finkelman said...
Of course, the New York Times did not indicate what percentage of our Afghan allies are like that. 1%? 3%? 15%?

Apparently it's not rare or unusual.

Human Terrain Team (HTT) AF-6
Research Update and Findings
Pashtun Sexuality

Background
The Human Terrain Team AF-6, assigned to the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Battalion and colocated with British forces in Lashkar Gah, has been requested by these forces to provide insight on Pashtun cultural traditions regarding male sexuality for reasons of enhanced baseline cultural understanding for improved interacti on as well as any IO applicability.

Key Observations
A culturally-contrived homosexuality (significantly not termed as such by its practitioners) appears to affect a far greater population base then some researchers would argue is attributable to natural inclination.
...
This usurping of the female role may contribute to the alienation of women over generations, and their eventual relegation to extreme segregation and abuse.
...
As HTT has observed with frequency while on patrols in Helmand and Kandahar provinces, these men are outwardly affectionate toward both one another and male ISAF members, are extremely gentle in their demeanor and touch, and have often taken great care in embellishing their personal appearance with fingernails dyed red, hair and beards hennaed in careful patterns, and eyes very occasionally subtly outlined.
...
Another interviewee in the article, a Marine in his 20's, stated, "It was hell... Every village we went into we got a group of men wearing make-up coming up, stroking our hair and cheeks and making kissing noises."

At least they're friendly.; 9/21/15, 2:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Pssst! Let's keep this amongst ourselves but I've also heard these same people deal in opium and will murder anyone who gets in the way.; 9/21/15, 2:45 PM
Owen said...: Hard for DoD to condemn this behavior when we are now OK with gay. Oh, wait: these are underage boys, there's the difference. Unlike underage girls for whom genital mutilation and child marriage is OK.

Funny how long it took the Times to notice this. Obama has been CINC for over 6 years. But this story does tie nicely to the recent Times story (Sunday?) on suicidal vets. Nothing like being forced to listen to children screaming in the night under those spiffy ROE's that the Pentagon's ten thousand lawyers have approved; and then going home to listen to your broken soul until you eat a gun.; 9/21/15, 2:46 PM
Fritz said...: A friend who went to Afghanistan three years or more ago told me about "Man Love Thursday". He was quite serious.; 9/21/15, 2:48 PM
Owen said...: Oh, and by the way? This behavior should have come as no surprise. T.E. Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" made that pretty clear. Tribes in the Hejaz (Western Arabia) were fine with the man-boy thing, although there it appeared to be consensual.

I agree that the best way to handle this --given our excruciatingly complicated cultural sensitivity-- is Just. To. Get. The. F***. Out. And tell the locals that we will not again send our people to bleed and die for them, we will not send them goods or aid or gold. But if they ever --ever-- screw with us, all their lives are forfeit.; 9/21/15, 2:52 PM
clint said...: Re: inevitable Catholic Church analogies...

Please remember, the Catholic Church *stopped* the abuse, and then covered up that it had happened.

Apparently, the U.S. military couldn't even be bothered to stop the abuse. They just turned a blind eye.; 9/21/15, 2:55 PM
Nonapod said...: Do you think the issue and decision hasn't been made by the US Politicals at State and the WH?

To be clear, I have little doubt that the genesis of this specific (the raping of little boys) "look the other way" policy is outside the strictly military realm, and may well go all the way to the top, which is appalling enough. But I'm just saddened that there were/are apparently a lot of military people who evidently put the chain of command above all other moral considerations. It's the old "only following orders" story.; 9/21/15, 2:59 PM
walter said...: "An exception, he said, is when rape is being used as a weapon of war."

Hey now..that's just plain wrong...

But these guys raping females? What about the term "boy play" don't they get? Perverts...; 9/21/15, 3:02 PM
Bobby said...: I'm not doubting the veracity of the article, but I spent fifty-two months in Afghanistan, and I can honestly say that if any of this ever went on in a FOB that I was on, I had no exposure to it.

Much of it might have been that bachi bayzi is a predominantly (though by no means exclusively) Pashtun practice, and I always lived in predominantly Tajik areas -- note that the Afghan National Army (ANA) are also heavily Dari-speaking Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks -- recruiting Pashtuns, especially from the South, has long been a problem for the ANA (the Afghan national police, on the other hand, tend to be locally recruited).

Another thing might be that I never lived on a FOB where the Afghan security forces (ANSF) controlled the gate -- we never trusted them not to wave through a suicide bomber or active shooter so access to the base was always controlled by US or Coalition Force troops where, presumably, if the Afghans were trying to carry on a bunch of boys, our troops would have said "WTF?!?!?" I'd have to ask them if they ever saw the ANA try it, as I didn't pull ECP duty. I do believe there were some dual/adjacent bases- i.e., the ANSF lived on a FOB next to a CF FOB, but lacked access and/or entry to our own- and maybe these are the type that could have experienced this?

Anyways, not denying the accuracy - there's definitely something bizarre going on in Pashto (and indeed all Afghan) culture, just that I can't personally speak to anything myself.; 9/21/15, 3:07 PM
Hagar said...: How much of the attitudes toward and treatment of women in Islam is actually in the Koran?

Wherever it comes from, the results are surely unhealthy and explain some of the behaviors described here?; 9/21/15, 3:07 PM
Gusty Winds said...: A friend who went to Afghanistan three years or more ago told me about "Man Love Thursday". He was quite serious.

Wow. Had to look that up on the Urban Dictionary.

My wife and I meet up on Thursdays after work for 50 cent wings and happy hour priced Spotted Cow. And that's about the extent of it. I can't believe how serenely uneventful my life has become.; 9/21/15, 3:08 PM
Gusty Winds said...: And here in America we are sending smoking hot female teachers to prison for working overtime to help transition the 15 to 17-year-old population into manhood.; 9/21/15, 3:12 PM
n.n said...: So, here's a question. Are religious/moral (i.e. behavioral) standards merely a social construct?

Presumably, the introduction of the God philosopher was to establish an absolute frame of reference. This is antithetical to the scientific philosophy that is constructed on limited, relative frames of reference. The conflation of scientific and religious/moral philosophies has engendered confusion that has degraded our effectiveness to cope with an objective reality and normalized/promoted progressive dysfunction.

AllenS:

Progressive corruption. Fortunately, excessive and illegal immigration will compensate for the "planned" generations; the secular "miracles" will improve the quality of life for the "unplanned" survivors; women will have the right to become taxable commodities, womb banks, warriors, and "single" moms; and #CecileTheAbortionist will drive away in her exotic sports car.; 9/21/15, 3:15 PM
gerry said...: ...of course, reading Salon, the Left is now trying to mainstream pedophilia...

Hey, it's all hard wired, right? So it's all morally equivalent. Pedophilia may not be harmful!

My, my, what a slippery slope moral liberals make.; 9/21/15, 3:16 PM
walter said...: From 2010..here; 9/21/15, 3:17 PM
Nichevo said...: Forcing troops to stand by while boy play is going on is a Prog two-fer: it shows multiculti sensitivity and it destroys troop morale, setting up (I guess a three-fer) the inevitable "we ugly Americans can't win, let's get out."

....yes...waitwaitwait...

we're supposed to go to the wall to tolerate Afghan faggotry, not even peer-competitor faggotry, but pedos;

but we're also supposed to go to the wall to shove down the Afghans' throats, the equalizing of women, teaching girls to read etc? IOW to NOT tolerate their cultural misogyny?

Afghanistan is not worth it. Afghanistan is worth nothing. Afghanistan is not worth the powder/nukes to blow it to Hell. That's not even a counsel of defeat, I have always felt that way.

Don't even try to help them. Just bomb. Unless you want to set up a small part of the country for the sane people. What curse befell these people?; 9/21/15, 3:24 PM
lgv said...: "Blogger Laslo Spatula said...
"Stay until the term "boy play" means tetherball ..."

Or making digital clocks.

I am Laslo."

Laslo made me LOL without even using the word anal.

I've read before how, in Afghanistan, culturally were repulsed by sex with icky women. Sex was meant to be with boys. Women were strictly for procreation. If we eliminated the boy lovers, would we not have anyone to serve with us amongst the Afghan army? If yes, then these boy lovers should be fired with extreme prejudice. If no, then we should leave. Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand. Oh, and stick by it, too.; 9/21/15, 3:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Blogger Fritz said...
A friend who went to Afghanistan three years or more ago told me about "Man Love Thursday". He was quite serious.

9/21/15, 2:48 PM
-----------------------------------

From written accounts that is true. They frolic on Thursday and believe that this will leave them pure for Friday mosque.

In Nick Irving's "The Reaper" there is an account of one of these Frisco Frolics (honi soit quit mal y pense)being fatal for about 30 participants when the fun was interrupted by some Army Rangers.; 9/21/15, 3:28 PM
Fritz said...: My solution would be to draft all of America's SJWs and send them to Afghanistan unarmed to convert the locals to their pacifistic, all organic philosophy social justice. Kill two birds with one stone; or at least one.; 9/21/15, 3:43 PM
Che Dolf said...: NY Times, 2007:

A True Culture War
By RICHARD A. SHWEDER

A few weeks ago this newspaper reported on an experimental Pentagon “human terrain” program to embed anthropologists in combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan. It featured two military anthropologists: Tracy (last name withheld), a cultural translator viewed by American paratroopers as “a crucial new weapon” in counterinsurgency; and Montgomery McFate, who has taken her Yale doctorate into active duty in a media blitz to convince skeptical colleagues that the occupying forces should know more about the local cultural scene...

These anthropological “angels on the shoulder,” as Ms. McFate put it, offer global positioning advice as soldiers move through poorly understood human terrain — telling them when not to cross their legs at meetings, how to show respect to leaders, how to arrange a party. They use their degrees in cultural anthropology to play the part of Emily Post...

...the military voices on the show had their winning moments, sounding like old-fashioned relativists, whose basic mission in life was to counter ethnocentrism and disarm those possessed by a strident sense of group superiority. Ms. McFate stressed her success at getting American soldiers to stop making moral judgments about a local Afghan cultural practice in which older men go off with younger boys on “love Thursdays” and do some “hanky-panky.” “Stop imposing your values on others,” was the message for the American soldiers. She was way beyond “don’t ask, don’t tell,” and I found it heartwarming.

Richard A. Shweder, an anthropologist and professor of comparative human development at the University of Chicago, is the author of “Thinking Through Cultures.”; 9/21/15, 3:59 PM
Kevin said...: Just think of them as incipient Afghani gay activists...; 9/21/15, 4:04 PM
sunsong said...: So what are we fighting for?; 9/21/15, 4:05 PM
khesanh0802 said...: @ Bobby Thanks for your comment and your service.; 9/21/15, 4:07 PM
n.n said...: gerry:

We should note the difference between orientation (i.e. predisposition) and behavior (i.e. expression). While the former creates a bias or prejudice, it is the latter which realizes an external effect. The progress of a dysfunctional orientation warrants scrutiny. The expression of a dysfunctional orientation should be remediated.

That said, the scientific perspective is that religious/moral values are a social construct. Therefore, the adoption of class diversity schemes, especially under a pro-choice doctrine, will undermine establishment of a consistent and coherent religious/moral philosophy. It will necessarily become a pursuit of the greatest common divisor or, alternatively, in a State-established pro-choice cult, a selective or variable modulus.; 9/21/15, 4:08 PM
Titus said...: There is a documentary about this on Youtube. They are sick-they make the boys dress up, wear makeup and dance for them-they are very competitive about getting the prettiest boy.

Weird.

tits.; 9/21/15, 4:09 PM
n.n said...: sunsong:

The majority with whom we presumably share a common perspective.; 9/21/15, 4:09 PM
BN said...: We don't do victory anymore.

Maybe someday we'll find it necessary again.; 9/21/15, 4:11 PM
Kevin said...: Fortunately, the progressive West has moved far beyond British General Charles Napier in tolerance and understanding.

When Napier discovered that the local Indians wished to continue the practice of suttee (i.e. throwing widows on to the funeral pyres of their dead husbands), on the grounds that this was their custom, Napier replied:

“Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

In ten years, female genital mutilation will be legal in the United States, since, of course, it would be intolerant not to acknowledge and honor the local culture of many immigrants to the US.; 9/21/15, 4:12 PM
Rick said...: Blockbuster: Walker's dropping his presidential campaign.

He wasn't going to win, but I'm surprised he's not trying to hold out until Trump folds.; 9/21/15, 4:15 PM
Nichevo said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/21/15, 4:15 PM
Nichevo said...: titus,

There is a documentary about this on Youtube. They are sick-they make the boys dress up, wear makeup and dance for them-they are very competitive about getting the prettiest boy.

Weird.

tits.

9/21/15, 4:09 PM

What could you possibly object to?; 9/21/15, 4:15 PM
Bob Ellison said...: NPR did a story on this in 2010.; 9/21/15, 4:16 PM
n.n said...: Che Dolf:

Here's another one from Yale:

Head Of Yale Law School’s Program for Study of Reproductive Justice: Yes, Dismemberment Abortion (D&E) Is A Humane Way To Die

A scientific perspective operates through limited, relative frames of reference. Presumably, pedophilia is a normal or tolerated behavior in the Afghan culture. As elective abortion is a normal or tolerated behavior in our culture. Two different religious/moral standards. Two frames of reference. It really is all relative.

Also, separation of Church (i.e. organized or consensus religious/moral stanards) and State is a myth, and, in fact, a simple fantasy. There is only normalization, tolerance, and rejection, and, in a pro-choice culture, congruences with selective and variable moduli.; 9/21/15, 4:23 PM
William said...: I know nothing of Afghan culture, but I'm pretty sure that the Taliban are not above this sort of thing as the article indicates. My guess is that this kind of puke behavior is pervasive and not limited to our allies......At any rate, when you get to the point where you're muttering "Exterminate the brutes", perhaps you should think of getting out.; 9/21/15, 4:24 PM
Bob Ellison said...: ...and here's a longish documentary about the practice.; 9/21/15, 4:26 PM
Gusty Winds said...: Ms. McFate stressed her success at getting American soldiers to stop making moral judgments about a local Afghan cultural practice in which older men go off with younger boys on “love Thursdays” and do some “hanky-panky.” “Stop imposing your values on others,” was the message for the American soldiers. She was way beyond “don’t ask, don’t tell,” and I found it heartwarming.

I wonder if Ms. McFate bothered to ask the boys what they thought about "love Thursdays" and whether or not they found it as heartwarming as Professor Shweder.; 9/21/15, 4:33 PM
Lydia said...: The NY Times in 2002:

An interest in relationships with young boys among warlords and their militia commanders played a part in the Taliban’s rise in Afghanistan. In 1994, the Taliban, then a small army of idealistic students of the Koran, were called to rescue a boy over whom two commanders had fought. They freed the boy and the people responded with gratitude and support.

So, just how in the world does the U.S. military think averting their eyes from this appalling practice helps in defeating the resurgent Taliban today? Just plain stupid if nothing else.; 9/21/15, 4:36 PM
David said...: This must be both confusing and demoralizing to the soldiers, not to mention the rest of us citizens who have a stake in this war, whether we bother to think about it or not. Since it's an American base, American rules of propriety and morality should prevail. It also makes me wonder what else we decide to ignore.; 9/21/15, 4:42 PM
Hagar said...: @William,
Hints of this sort of thing are common in books about travels in the Middle East going back to the beginnings of tourism and travelogues.; 9/21/15, 4:58 PM
Titus said...: nichevo I am not into chidren and I am the one who has to be pursued-I never pursue an adult male.; 9/21/15, 4:58 PM
pm317 said...: appreciate the restraint in your response, Titus but shame on that other guy.; 9/21/15, 5:07 PM
JCC said...: Actually, the very beginning of the Taliban came out of something similar. A warlord had grabbed and sodomized a local young boy (or boys). Omar, who was a veteran of the war with the Soviet Union, took a few other like-minded men, marched into the village and hung the warlord and several others from the gun barrel of the warlord's own tank. Gathering others as he went, he marched into another village and repeated the scene, again summarily executing a warlord who was known for sexually abusing local children.

By the end of the week, Omar was Mullah Omar and a national movement was born.

So, for all of their barbarity and BS, I don't know that the original Taliban, ignorant and illiterate as they may have been, would have been tolerant of this particular practice (unsurprising, as they proved intolerant of pretty much anything).

BTW, Omar and his original followers were said to be so ignorant of genuine Islamic thought and philosophy that they incorporated village lore and superstition into their religiois beliefs, wrongly thinking them genuine Islamic tenets.; 9/21/15, 5:10 PM
Bobby said...: William,

"I know nothing of Afghan culture, but I'm pretty sure that the Taliban are not above this sort of thing as the article indicates. My guess is that this kind of puke behavior is pervasive and not limited to our allies."

It's probably somewhat endemic to Pashto (if not Afghan) culture, so certainly the Taliban would not be above it, but Lydia is correct that one of the dynamics that gave rise to the Taliban in the mid-nineties was their concerted effort to stamp out this behavior. Matter of fact, the story the Talib told- back then- was that Mullah Omar rose to power specifically by beating down to Pashto warlords who were fighting over who would get to have sex with a young boy.

Hagar,

"Hints of this sort of thing are common in books about travels in the Middle East going back to the beginnings of tourism and travelogues."

Agreed, but strictly-speaking, Afghanistan is considered Central Asia, not the Middle East.; 9/21/15, 5:16 PM
Achilles said...: Tolerance of these acts comes straight from Obama himself. This is just one of the most egregious examples of things we had to let slide. Ever since Obama was elected we had to change everything we did.

Every one of these child rapes lies at his feet. Every woman sold into sexual slavery is his doing. And everyone who supports him shares responsibility.

There are a million reasons why when the shit hits the fan the armed forces are going to be with the people and not with Obama and his degenerate cabal.; 9/21/15, 5:17 PM
Nichevo said...: The Taliban also got a rep for opposing drugs but now rely on the opium trade for $. You think nobody else can be hypocritical?; 9/21/15, 6:06 PM
Nichevo said...: As for Titus, pm, he's not real anyway.; 9/21/15, 6:07 PM
Anonymous said...: Pedophiliac/Ephebophiliac obsession for either sex is likely a collective hangover from our more primitive societies in which 15-yr-old warlords are a thing and you reach full maturation at 13 or so, including full rights to marry, work, own property, sign contracts, drink, vote, be licensed, etc. It's gang on a brain stem level.; 9/21/15, 6:35 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/21/15, 7:32 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/21/15, 7:35 PM
tomaig said...: I wish althouse had the feature in the comments that's like: this comment has been removed. click here to see it anyway.; 9/21/15, 8:16 PM
chickelit said...: tomaig said...
I wish althouse had the feature in the comments that's like: this comment has been removed. click here to see it anyway.

All you have to do is click the little box when you comment and blogger will email all subsequent comments. It stacks them too so they don't clutter your inbox.

You get to see everything -- even the ones she permanently deletes without a trace.; 9/21/15, 8:48 PM
chickelit said...: Lydia asks: So, just how in the world does the U.S. military think averting their eyes from this appalling practice helps in defeating the resurgent Taliban today? Just plain stupid if nothing else.

But suppose the plan isn't to defeat the Taliban?

I think we need a better timeline of exactly when this policy of see-no evil began. People are insisting that it began under Bush. I'm thinking it began around the time the suicidal ROE went into effect in Afghanistan which led to sharp increases in American casualties.; 9/21/15, 8:54 PM
Fernandinande said...: gerry said...
Hey, it's all hard wired, right? So it's all morally equivalent. Pedophilia may not be harmful!

Kinda strange -
The only person I've ever met who admitted to enjoying little-kiddie porn was left handed (he was a supervisor with "child protective services")
1st link: ("I’m a pedophile") "I was born without my right hand. "
2nd link: "paedophiles are significantly less likely to be right-handed than the rest of the population"

Just goes to show that the singular of data is anecdote.; 9/21/15, 9:14 PM
Achilles said...: chickelit said...

" But suppose the plan isn't to defeat the Taliban?

I think we need a better timeline of exactly when this policy of see-no evil began. People are insisting that it began under Bush. I'm thinking it began around the time the suicidal ROE went into effect in Afghanistan which led to sharp increases in American casualties."

Under Bush we were out to destroy the bad guys. The was some COIN stuff and there were limits, but when we got the bad guys they were either killed or developed.

That changed drastically in 2009. It became catch and release overnight. We weren't allowed to destroy homes we watched the bad guys wire to explode. We literally watched them put in 20 IED's and trail command det chord to a compound 500 meters away and were denied permission to destroy the compound. We had to put up a strip map with a big red X on it for the rotating company.

My first deployment in 2008 our first sgt got up in front of us and said among other things "Lets go kill some fucking muslims." We did. Other Muslims appreciated our efforts and were voting and girls were going to school for the first time.

During my second or third deployment in 2010 another company, the one I started with, had a bunch of NCO's fired and sent to support company because 2 privates told the chaplain many people in the company hated muslims. There was a platoon meeting and the feelings were confirmed. Just for general knowledge enlisted people in Ranger battalion hate everyone as a general rule. We hate pussies, we hate lawyers, we hate jerks, we hate fat people, skinny people, teetotalers, whatever. The only people we don't hate are the people who leave us alone.

But there is a special place for muslims. Especially the ones that beat women, rape little boys, and try to kill us. During our time in Afghanistan we saw them everywhere. When we saw women with black eyes the men in that compound got special attention. When we saw a "pocket boy" we hurt people permanently. But as things went on and people got fired we had to avert our eyes.

There is no question this started in 2009. During the COIN push in the Bush administration they forced us to work harder to differentiate which was fine. We were forced to be nicer to the locals. But once we identified the bad guys it was game on. After the regime change and Obama took over it was clear that winning was no longer a goal.; 9/22/15, 2:39 AM
Nichevo said...: Good to know, I'd thought the lawfare PC rot had started earlier. Frankly I just hope that at this point we can still evacuate coalition forces without a bloodbath/spectacle. Meanwhile I wouldn't wonder, these women you saved a beating, would still carve you up if captured.; 9/22/15, 6:04 AM
Michael K said...: "After the regime change and Obama took over it was clear that winning was no longer a goal."

I wasn't there but this is my impression from everything I read.

Dakota Meyer's book is an education.; 9/22/15, 6:25 AM
Bobby said...: That's certainly a perspective held by many of my colleagues. Ultimately, however, regardless of tactics or ROEs or even Pakistani sanctuaries, it's unlikely that we could have achieved our stated objectives in Afghanistan for an all-too-familiar reason: we simply lacked a reliable-enough host nation partner. The insurgents were highly motivated and focused on killing Coalition and ANSF troops and GIROA officials; the Karzai government quilt, and all of the different ethnic, tribal and political party threads that stitched it together, were more interested in looking out for and enriching themselves.; 9/22/15, 8:31 AM
JCC said...: "...hate everyone as a general rule...pussies...lawyers...jerks...fat people...skinny people...teetotalers...whatever...The only people we don't hate are the people who leave us alone."

So true.; 9/22/15, 8:57 AM
dbp said...: I heard on NPR this morning a story about the whereabouts of former archbishop Bernard Francis Law--he resigned some 13 years ago for sweeping pedophilia by priests under the rug.

I wonder if or when they will notice this administration doing essentially the same thing, right now in Afghanistan.

Kidding! They will never notice.; 9/22/15, 9:29 AM
gerry said...: We should note the difference between orientation (i.e. predisposition) and behavior (i.e. expression).

I agree, but Progressives and contemporary liberals do not recognize immoral behavior, calling its discussion bigoted and/or hypocritical, attempting to silence debate. There seems to be no point differentiating orientation and behavior in discussions with Progressives and contemporary liberals; for them, orientation justifies behavior.; 9/22/15, 10:15 AM
SukieTawdry said...: Some years ago, I watched a video about Egyptian men and their predilection for having sex with boys. There was no subterfuge about "dancing boys," this was about sex plain and simple. The men explained that women are for having children and boys are for sex (they seemed quite disgusted by the need to insert their penises where women "bleed" in order to have children). The videographer asked them if having sex with boys made them homosexuals. They said, no, of course not, that it all depends on who's on top, who does the penetrating. It's the men on the bottom who are the homosexuals. They said most of these boys would grow up to be men on top.

I need my equilibrium restored. Quick, someone lecture me about the joys and benefits of multi-cultural diversity. Explain again how no one culture should be held above another. The sooner the better--I feel a paroxysm of western culture primacy coming on.; 9/22/15, 11:32 AM
Robert Cook said...: "...Progressives and contemporary liberals do not recognize immoral behavior...."

On the contrary...there is such a thing as immoral behavior, and there's too plenty of it in the world. Just look to Washington or the boardrooms of Wall Street and the Big Banks and the multi-national corporations...you'll see enough immoral behavior to make a sane person sick.

The forced rape of boys in Afghanistan is also certainly immoral, as is the sexual subjugation of any person, adult or child. (Come to think of it...cant we clean up our prisons and protect inmates from becoming sexual victims and slaves to violent predators?); 9/22/15, 12:08 PM
Nichevo said...: Quick, someone lecture me about the joys and benefits of multi-cultural diversity.

Althouse to the rescue in 3...2...1...; 9/22/15, 12:09 PM
Stoutcat said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/22/15, 12:19 PM
Stoutcat said...: Did none of you read any Mary Renault in your teens? There is nothing at all surprising about this, it's been going on in the region since before Alexander the Great.

Read "Fire from Heaven" and/or "The Persian Boy".

It was barbaric then, and it is barbaric now.; 9/22/15, 12:20 PM
Annie said...: I need my equilibrium restored. Quick, someone lecture me about the joys and benefits of multi-cultural diversity. Explain again how no one culture should be held above another. The sooner the better--I feel a paroxysm of western culture primacy coming on.

The left loves perversion. Won't be long before they legalize boy diddling, in the west...because it's 'natural' and doesn't hurt anyone.; 9/22/15, 1:15 PM
Unknown said...: My comment when Bush 1 invaded was that the lives of every person in Kuwait was not worth one American casualty. When W. got feisty I used the remark again. It seems odd when I consider it, but my low valuation of those cultures would be to their great benefit if widespread. So long as they mind their business I would leave them to it. Even killing a bunch of them if provoked in order to make the survivors think twice before whacking a hornet's nest would be much less trouble to them than what has transpired from motives justified as at least partly benevolent. Why we don't hang a politician as soon as he starts blathering about doing good with the military is more than I can grasp.; 9/22/15, 8:00 PM
John Cunningham said...: Reason #4215 why the plague of Islam must be extinguished on earth. k it is a scummy death cult, whose practicioners must be liquidated.; 9/23/15, 3:27 PM