Althouse: "A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective who was pistol-whipped unconscious said Friday that he hesitated to use force because he didn't want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man."

August 15, 2015

"A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective who was pistol-whipped unconscious said Friday that he hesitated to use force because he didn't want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man."

"'A lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media,' said the officer, who asked to remain anonymous for the safety of his family. "I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now.'"

142 comments:

mezzrow said...: Ta-Henisi Coates smiles while reading his morning newspaper, and finishes his breakfast.

It is working.; 8/15/15, 9:23 AM
Sebastian said...: Black Lives Matter. Cop lives don't.; 8/15/15, 9:26 AM
furious_a said...: Either they're going to hesitate to use force, or they're going to refuse to respond to calls (i.e., patrol in communities) where there's a known risk of force having to be used. See "New York", also "Baltimore".; 8/15/15, 9:29 AM
Anonymous said...: The Black community is going to reap what the SJW's have sown here and it won't be pretty for the old and weak citizens. I see a downward cycle of police community relations and recriminations nationwide that will end up with the withdrawal of community based policing programs and a replacement with occupation forces. The SJW's will get a reality that doesn't exist today, regardless of their claims.; 8/15/15, 9:34 AM
Michael K said...: "a replacement with occupation forces. "

No, I think a cordon around that community keeping the "warrior genes" away from peaceful middle class citizens of all colors would be enough.

Let them kill each other.; 8/15/15, 9:41 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Explain again why you voted for Obama?; 8/15/15, 9:45 AM
Big Mike said...: My take: the training that the police have received has emphasized self-protection, treating the risk of killing an unarmed person as an acceptable one. Suddenly the climate has changed, based on well-publicized cases such as Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, and Michael Brown. The last shooting was justified, based on the grand jury's decision, the other two not at all so. Now the police hesitate when they shouldn't, but there doesn't seem to be adjustments to their training to help their decision-making.; 8/15/15, 9:50 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: A prominent attorney, his wife, his daughter, three cops and two liquor store owners are arrested in murder.; 8/15/15, 9:59 AM
The Godfather said...: I think it was the Zimmerman-Martin case that started the "unarmed" meme in news coverage. The implication was that there's no justification for shooting an "unarmed" man. It took awhile for the possibility to occur to anyone that an "unarmed" man could kill you by smashing your head on the sidewalk. In Ferguson we were skeptical that the officer was in fear that the "unarmed" "gentle giant" might take his service pistol and use it against him. We've heard the newsies describe someone as "unarmed" who drove a car at a police officer.

"Unarmed"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.; 8/15/15, 10:00 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: "but there doesn't seem to be adjustments to their training to help their decision-making."
I would be shocked if there hasn't been training adjustments. But the biggest problem is the politicians, the media and societies severe overreaction/jumping to conclusions in these cases. All the police training in the world won't help with that.; 8/15/15, 10:01 AM
Birkel said...: exhelodrvr1:
Althouse voted for Obama because he is a Democrat and John McCain was one of the worst nominees by a major party since 1968. One of the very few nominees worse than McCain, of course, was Obama. But the MSM hid all of Obama's defects as long as they could.

Now Obama's failures are manifest. But he remains a Democrat.; 8/15/15, 10:05 AM
Anonymous said...: It will be interesting to see this new reality play out among the Female Police staff. Female cops have some strengths and weaknesses. They do well in talking. e.g. problem resolution. Jaw boning a domestic disturbance, etc. However, they have a smaller spectrum of response. a 200 pound Male Cop has a spectrum that runs from Talk, growl, wave baton, use baton, wave gun, use gun...

A female cop lacks some of those middle capabilities...Talk, Talk, ... wave gun, use gun...; 8/15/15, 10:08 AM
Hagar said...: Tamir Rice was a 12-year old, but a 5'-9" 12-year old in the rain with a hoodie and an airgun with the orange tip removed so that it looked for all the world as the real thing, and he pointed it at the arriving officer.

Walter Scott fled from the officer for no apparent reason, and when the officer chased him down and tackled him, got the officer's taser, tased the officer, and then fled again.

It is odd that all that I can remember of these "black lives matter" cases that I can remember hitting the media have had at least something questionable about them (in favor of the officer(s), that is), and the most famous of them have been clear-cut that the officers had reasons to fire.

As big as this country is and things being what they are, you would think the SJWs could find better examples for their cause!; 8/15/15, 10:09 AM
B said...: Rules of engagement are a real pain in the ass, huh?

Yes, you put yourself at risk and put civil rights above your safety. That's why cops are one of the highest paid professions without a college degree. Stop whining and do your job properly.; 8/15/15, 10:14 AM
Nichevo said...: As far as I'm concerned, B, doing their jobs properly involves shooting scum at every opportunity. The biggest thing you could do to save this society is to fill all the jails and prisons to the roof with water for 24 hours.; 8/15/15, 10:28 AM
furious_a said...: SJWs love the "root cause" excuse, so...

Eric Garner died because NYC needed its vig on cigarette sales.

Michael Brown died because fat, high and stupid are no way to go through life, son. Ferguson was already seething because the City practiced taxation by citation, which landed hardest on its poorest citizens.

Michael Scott died because he was behind on child support, and the fatal stop would have led to his arrest and loss of yet another job.

Freddy Gray died because a black mayor, black police chief, black district attorney and black supervising lieutenant on-the-scene tolerated prisoner abuse.; 8/15/15, 10:36 AM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/15/15, 10:36 AM
traditionalguy said...: The minute the officer's badge and uniform are no longer enough to stop a man is when the police have to shoot them on sight or let them go. Then the police must declare a no go zone and places that are not policed.

So many thugs today take glory in death matches with police and use suicide by cop that Charles Manson has nearly won and Helter Skelter is being set loose.

But at least Christianity has been outlawed in public so the poor little atheists feel better now that that There is no teaching of authority over men under a Law given by God.; 8/15/15, 10:38 AM
furious_a said...: Because with the crystalline clarity of 20/20 hindsight a policeman knows that an individual behaving erratically or aggressively is unarmed before they establish that he actually is, you know, unarmed.; 8/15/15, 10:42 AM
Tank said...: B said...

Rules of engagement are a real pain in the ass, huh?

Yes, you put yourself at risk and put civil rights above your safety. That's why cops are one of the highest paid professions without a college degree. Stop whining and do your job properly.

So, he should have shot the attacker dead. There is not civil right to pistol whip a police officer, or anyone else.; 8/15/15, 10:43 AM
William said...: There are camera phones everywhere. Cops have to be very careful in the application of blunt force to control a situation. Their jobs depend on it. That's just the way it is......The "hands up, don't shoot" narrative is fraudulent. The media gently glide by that fact before going on to explain about how the citizens of Ferguson are subject to insupportable oppression. I saw one Ferguson woman interviewed on CNN. She told how some police officer could unjustly ticket her, then if she complained she would be arrested, then maybe they would even kill her in jail. The woman kept getting angrier and angrier about all the imagined abuses she was the victim off. The reporter nodded sympathetically and did not once ask a skeptical question......I thought that the woman was full of shit and that the reporter was an enabler of the next insult, bottle, or bullet aimed at a cop.; 8/15/15, 10:46 AM
Hagar said...: Speaking of crazy people, I think there is a drug out there that has not been recognized yet, but on at least some people has a side effect of making them feel belligerent and do stupid things.
That goes from Trayvon Martin to this kid football player who danced on the hoods of the cars in a a car dealer's lot and then rammed his car into the showroom and then turned on the cop who followed him in.
Like Michael Brown too; this is not normal behavior.; 8/15/15, 10:49 AM
William said...: I read the David Simon interview in the Daily Beast. Simon was the writer for The Wire. He criticized Darren Wilson for sloppy police work. Apparently Wilson parked too close to Brown. If he had parked a bit further away, Brown would not have been able to push the car door shut and then reach in. Simon did not offer any criticism of Brown, just Wilson. Simon said that although he has visited with the President he doesn't share the same close relationship with him that Jon Stewart has.; 8/15/15, 10:58 AM
DanTheMan said...: >>Stop whining and do your job properly.

The proper response for a police officer being pistol whipped is to shoot the assailant until the assault stops.; 8/15/15, 11:03 AM
furious_a said...: Speaking of #BlackLivesMatter, cousin of mine in Shreveport just lost a brother officer from his K-9 unit.; 8/15/15, 11:06 AM
William said...: B said that cops are one of the "highest paid professions" for a non college graduate. I don't know what the pay for a cop in Ferguson is, but I doubt that I would be staggered by its munificence. I also think that I've had non degree jobs that paid more. Those jobs sucked, but not so bad as that of Darren Wilson.; 8/15/15, 11:06 AM
Big Mike said...: Now Obama's failures are manifest. But he remains a Democrat.

@Birkel, so does she. So does she.; 8/15/15, 11:08 AM
Big Mike said...: @exhelodrvr1, you and I are in agreement. But it does take time to (re)train people and not all training will be top-notch. It's going to take a while, and todays ADHD media -- and the equally impatient Millennials -- aren't interested in the long view.; 8/15/15, 11:11 AM
Nichevo said...: And the douches who twittered their photos of the fallen officer? What process exists for hunting them down and bringing them to justice? Of course they may have committed no actual crime but does that matter anymore?; 8/15/15, 11:18 AM
sane_voter said...: Ferguson is no different than every other small, majority-black city in the St. Louis area. They apparently all run the same racket: ticketing minor offenses to raise money, since the tax base is pathetic. Ferguson's problem is that it still has the legacy white police force and government from when it was a white suburb. But I predict the only thing will change once the blacks are fully in charge there is that the media won't care anymore, as blacks screwing over blacks is dog bites man. And there is always another white-on-black for the media to focus on.; 8/15/15, 11:18 AM
sane_voter said...: Birmingham has also fully gone into the shitter. The only good part is the sprawling urban UAB campus and a few nearby neighborhoods.; 8/15/15, 11:23 AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: #BlackLiesMatter
#PantsUp
#DontLoot; 8/15/15, 11:43 AM
Theranter said...: Furious a, sorry to hear that.

My Dad was a police officer, and while I completely agree with the blacklivesmatter sentiment, and how hard it must be as a mom or dad to wonder if your child, simply because of their skin color, will come home, I just wish the same depth of sentiment applied to all the young children with parents that, simply because of the uniform they wear and regardless of color, wonder if their parent will come each night.; 8/15/15, 11:50 AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: Theranter said...
Furious a, sorry to hear that.

My Dad was a police officer, and while I completely agree with the blacklivesmatter sentiment,

And what exactly is that sentiment? Please tell us.

and how hard it must be as a mom or dad to wonder if your child, simply because of their skin color, will come home,

That's an outrageous slander. Does't happen. Unless you mean by that, White parents and their child is walking in a Black neighborhood. Then I might agree.; 8/15/15, 11:57 AM
B said...: doing their jobs properly involves shooting scum at every opportunity

Yes there is a vocal minority who want cops to execute people in the streets. Thanks for reminding us how disgusting human nature really is.; 8/15/15, 11:58 AM
furious_a said...: But I predict the only thing will change once the blacks are fully in charge there is that the media won't care anymore, as blacks screwing over blacks is dog bites man.

Also known as "Baltimore" or "Detroit".; 8/15/15, 12:05 PM
Carol said...: I think there is a drug out there that has not been recognized yet,

Yes, what in holy hell has gotten into thugs these days. It's not meant as a legal excuse, but what is the physical/chemical explanation? My guesses so far have been meth, PCP, or bath salts. With liquor. But my knowledge of drugs is way out of date.

Anyway I don't blame a cop one bit for overreacting in a situation, when there seems to be no limit at all on what the perp will do.; 8/15/15, 12:17 PM
Annie said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/15/15, 12:32 PM
David said...: ARM, you have to remember that the incident you cite is from Modesto, California. California has far more killings of civilians by cops than any other state. Far more than Texas on per capita basis, so it's not just the large population. This seems rather strange because Cali has restrictive gun laws and has been governed by "progressives" for decades. Why do you suppose police are killing so many people in California?; 8/15/15, 12:33 PM
Annie said...: Yes, you put yourself at risk and put civil rights above your safety. That's why cops are one of the highest paid professions without a college degree.

Seriously?
Perhaps you should do some ride-alongs for a week and give them some pointers. We're asking them to have to deal with the dregs of society, the mentally ill, the stoned, the drunk, the belligerent, the violent, on a daily basis....for shit pay and now according to SJW and you, they should second guess themselves and their training and die.

The Ferguson police department is one of the lowest paid departments in the state of MO, and other than the complaints against ticketing demanded by the city officials, they've done a pretty good job of policing. The media and race baiters needlessly blew up the Brown case. Wilson did his job much to Holder's chagrin. Interesting to note that surrounding blacker cities have been under investigation for over-doing the fines/ticketing. MO allows up to 30% of city revenue to come from ticketing, which Ferguson, under white leadership, has kept it under. In those other blacker cities, they've been doing 50% or higher, not to mention much higher crime rates, and noone really gives a flying f*ck about those black lives.

Another interesting note, in the city of Ferguson and the larger St. Louis city, the crime rate has gone up since Michael Brown. Thanks SJWs and B. That'll teach those cops.

Btw, my dad was a cop and we rarely saw him because he was always working a second job in order to pay the bills.; 8/15/15, 12:36 PM
David said...: I think it's great for police to put civil rights first. However, I believe that the police officer has a civil right to go home alive at the end of his or her work shift. That right extends to the cops spouse, children and other family members.

Most well run police forces teach officer safety as a very high priority. Imagine the recruits they would get if they did not prioritize this.; 8/15/15, 12:38 PM
Michael K said...: "A female cop lacks some of those middle capabilities...Talk, Talk, ... wave gun, use gun..."

Few remember that the Rodney King case, which could have been the first "Black Lives Matter" shooting , didn't become one because the LAPD officers arrived and took King down by swarming him and with batons. The female CHP officer, Melanie Singer, had her pistol out ready to shoot him when they arrived.

When the LAPD cops were being tried for saving his life, she testified against them and then retired on stress disability. They went to prison. Rodney got millions to spend on transvestite hookers.

The Clinton DoJ was happy.; 8/15/15, 12:51 PM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/15/15, 12:59 PM
Freder Frederson said...: The fault is the stupid idea of letting insane people free range.

From the tone of your posts, you would probably be one of the first exterminated in your perfect world.; 8/15/15, 1:08 PM
Freder Frederson said...: Walter Scott fled from the officer for no apparent reason, and when the officer chased him down and tackled him, got the officer's taser, tased the officer, and then fled again.

Uh, no he didn't. The cop planted the taser on him after he shot Scott.; 8/15/15, 1:11 PM
B said...: Strong undercurrent of racism here today. That South Africa comment stands out.; 8/15/15, 1:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Theranter said...
My Dad was a police officer, and while I completely agree with the blacklivesmatter sentiment, and how hard it must be as a mom or dad to wonder if your child, simply because of their skin color, will come home, I just wish the same depth of sentiment applied to all the young children with parents that, simply because of the uniform they wear and regardless of color, wonder if their parent will come each night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACAdVvO1KMw

Malone: You just fulfilled the first rule of law enforcement: make sure when your shift is over you go home alive. Here endeth the lesson.; 8/15/15, 1:24 PM
Michael K said...: "The cop planted the taser on him after he shot Scott."

That is in doubt as some photos show the police officer with theater wires to his leg. I expect the trial will fill in the blanks that left want to fill with propaganda,; 8/15/15, 1:27 PM
Michael K said...: The taser wires...; 8/15/15, 1:28 PM
Hagar said...: No doubt. The cop has one stinger in a leg and the other in his arm, and Scott is running away with the wires around his instep and the taser in the air behind his leg, iirc. Anyway, you can clearly see the wires in the air from Scott's feet and back up to the cop.; 8/15/15, 1:46 PM
Gahrie said...: Uh, no he didn't. The cop planted the taser on him after he shot Scott.

...and Michael Brown was shot in the back while he had his hands up and was running away......; 8/15/15, 1:52 PM
Gahrie said...: Yes, what in holy hell has gotten into thugs these days

A bet a lot of it has to do with talking shit. These guys are hanging around with their pals, talking about how tough they are, and "I wish a cop would pull me over..." and then when a cop does pull them over, they can't cooperate because then they would lose face with their friends.; 8/15/15, 1:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Agree with @BigMike.; 8/15/15, 1:57 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Blogger David said...
ARM, you have to remember that the incident you cite

My only point is that Althouse has a remarkably strong bias towards stories of black on white violence, while ignoring the statistically much greater problem of white on white violence. Various theories as to why this striking statistical bias in Althouse's posting pattern might occur have been suggested.; 8/15/15, 2:07 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: B said...
Strong undercurrent of racism here today. That South Africa comment stands out.

Nope. That's just your Liberal world-view clashing, as it must, with reality. And when that happens, your reflex is to lash out. Beats admitting you are wrong about things.; 8/15/15, 2:10 PM
B said...: I really hope Althouse brings back moderation. You can all crawl back under whatever rock you came from.; 8/15/15, 2:18 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: AReasonableMan said...
Blogger David said...
ARM, you have to remember that the incident you cite

My only point is that Althouse has a remarkably strong bias towards stories of black on white violence, while ignoring the statistically much greater problem of white on white violence. Various theories as to why this striking statistical bias in Althouse's posting pattern might occur have been suggested.

There's no mystery here, UnReasonableMan. Everyone knows that most violence is intra-racial, so Whites making up the majority of the population, white-on-white has the most incidents.

But when you look at things deeper than surface level (you might try it sometime), you see a disproportionate level of inter-racial violence is Black on White. BIG time disproportional. Since the mainstream media and the ruling class don't want that known, and work hard to suppress it, other forums have to make up for the difference, and to correct the record.; 8/15/15, 2:23 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: B said...
I really hope Althouse brings back moderation. You can all crawl back under whatever rock you came from.

See. There's that lashing out I mentioned. Oh, and with a call to ban and censor! Bravo!; 8/15/15, 2:25 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
There's no mystery here,

So you are saying that Althouse is racially biased but she is doing it as a public service?; 8/15/15, 2:30 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "the SJWs could find better examples"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, if my recall be clear, said the point of the Soviet's use of power in rewriting history was to show the subjects that the truth didn't matter, only what the State said mattered.

The point was to emasculate the subjects to the point they turned on themselves, up to and including their own brain turning on their own brain (and I am speaking in addition to vodka here).

With the SJW's, they don't have "better examples" because nobody of any importance nationally would argue with a clear-cut case of police brutality or murder, except Jack Dunphy and other paid shills.

So they bullshit knowing the right will walk right into the "black lives don't matter" trap, which is a stupid trap but effective enough for the Left.

It would be out of my league, but a top-notch debater could pithily summarize the flaws in the "hands up don't shoot" lies and use truth to further our society's understanding of civilization and the foundations it wilts on top of.; 8/15/15, 2:45 PM
Hagar said...: ARM,
The subject is racism and that you are full of prunes.; 8/15/15, 2:50 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "The biggest thing you could do to save this society is to fill all the jails and prisons to the roof with water for 24 hours."

Exactly, then nuke New York and L.A. and Miami and Houston and Chicago and wherever else our government wants to murder a few million (or more) citizens.

Society would be "saved" for sure then.; 8/15/15, 2:51 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Hagar said...
The subject is racism

But is it? How, as a practical matter, would we distinguish the bleatings of an out and out racist from the nuanced observations of a public spirited racialist who focuses on black failings, purely as a public service?; 8/15/15, 3:26 PM
Michael said...: ARM

You are aware that arithmetic and statistics are not the same?; 8/15/15, 4:04 PM
Hagar said...: Blacks are not leading this, ARM. There are some opportunists and followers, but the leadership comes from the white gentry.; 8/15/15, 4:20 PM
Alex said...: Yes we should only allow B's enlightened comments and censor everyone else's.

Bravo B, you humbled all of us.

Yes, cops all over should allow themselves to be pistol whipped and/or killed in the name of #OnlyBlackLivesMatter.

I think Hitlery should run on that hashtag if she isn't in prison by 2016.; 8/15/15, 4:28 PM
B said...: I love it when the bigots demand their views be tolerated on other people's private forums.

If Althouse wants to delete my comments, I won't resent her. We're in her living room here.; 8/15/15, 4:36 PM
Gahrie said...: But when you look at things deeper than surface level (you might try it sometime), you see a disproportionate level of inter-racial violence is Black on White. BIG time disproportional. Since the mainstream media and the ruling class don't want that known, and work hard to suppress it, other forums have to make up for the difference, and to correct the record.

Not only that, the MSM and SJW brigade tries to convince the public that the problem is White on Black violence instead.

Just compare the numbers of Black men raping White women to White men raping Black women.; 8/15/15, 4:37 PM
Alex said...: B, you're new here.

Robbery[edit]
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, the black arrest rate for robbery was 8.55 times higher than whites, and blacks were 16 times more likely to be incarcerated for robbery than non-Hispanic whites. Robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the reverse.[38][39]

Reality doesn't like you.; 8/15/15, 4:42 PM
Michael K said...: "the statistically much greater problem of white on white violence."

You are saying that statistics show white on white violence is greater Statistically ?

Where ? Here is Vox, not doubt your favorite.

"Blacks represent 13% of the population but commit 50% of the murders; 90% of black victims are murdered by other blacks," writes Time's Joe Klein, calling for "provocative" thinking on race in America. "The facts suggest that history is not enough to explain this social disaster."

the United States is in the wake of an epidemic of white-on-white crime. Back in 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, a staggering 83 percent of white murder victims were killed by fellow Caucasians.

So, whites are 83% of the population (counting Hispanics as white no doubt) and 83% of the murderers of whites are white.

Blacks are 13% and 90% of blacks are murdered by blacks. Are those your statistics ?

School is good, ARM. School is good.; 8/15/15, 4:44 PM
Anonymous said...: As Instapundit might say, this isn't a bug, it's a feature.; 8/15/15, 4:48 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: For a white person, like Althouse, is the probability of being killed by another white larger than that of being killed by a black or smaller? Given that we all know the answer, why does Althouse focus on the small risk probability while ignoring the much higher probability of white on white violence? It's a simple enough question.; 8/15/15, 5:45 PM
ken in tx said...: There's a new video out that purports to show Michael Brown beating the crap out of a smaller black guy, for no apparent reason. It starts off with a REAL sucker punch--like it was set up to be videoed.; 8/15/15, 6:06 PM
Bricap said...: @Michael K, 41's DOJ indicted the officers, and yes, they were tried and convicted after Clinton took office. Not sure why you needed to frame it as making Clinton's DOJ happy.; 8/15/15, 6:13 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Another white murderer. When will all this white on white violence end?; 8/15/15, 6:18 PM
Michael K said...: " Not sure why you needed to frame it as making Clinton's DOJ happy."

Clinton's DoJ pursued the double jeopardy strategy of trying them for civil rights violations after they had been acquitted by a local jury.

The LAPD officers saved Rodney King's life, whatever your opinion about his violation of the speed limit and the CHP stop. It is a fact that he was refusing to obey Melanie Singer's orders and she had her gun ready to shoot him. Stacey Koon whose life was ruined by that case, took over from her and subdued him with minor injuries.

The point of my comment had to do with female officers and their options with defiant suspects.; 8/15/15, 6:26 PM
Michael K said...: "For a white person, like Althouse, is the probability of being killed by another white larger than that of being killed by a black or smaller? " She lives in Madison, a white city. In Milwaukee, she would be at greater risk from blacks.; 8/15/15, 6:28 PM
Bricap said...: Michael, my point was that it was 41's DOJ that started the process, not Clinton's DOJ. He inherited the case and brought it to trial, and yes, his DOJ could very well have been happy with the pursuit and outcome, but it wasn't their happiness alone.

I wondered if there was a possible double jeopardy issue myself at the time, I admit.; 8/15/15, 6:46 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Michael K said...
She lives in Madison, a white city.

You concede the point. Then, why does she focus so exclusively, out of proportion to actual risk probabilities, on black on white violence? It is such a simple question.; 8/15/15, 6:55 PM
Hagar said...: Ken in Tx,
It's an old video, a staged phoney, and not Michael Brown.; 8/15/15, 7:01 PM
Gahrie said...: My only point is that Althouse has a remarkably strong bias towards stories of black on white violence

Well the MSM is obsessed with White on Black crime (while ignoring Black on White crime for the most part) which is statistically the least likely form of crime.; 8/15/15, 7:16 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Gahrie said...
Well the MSM is obsessed with White on Black crime (while ignoring Black on White crime for the most part)

None of this is really true. The focus in recent months has been on police violence not civilian violence. I support this focus. I don't understand why whites have put up with such shitty policing for so long. I am happy that blacks have finally made an issue of this. But this is unrelated to why Althouse only posts on the low probability risk of black on white violence and ignores the high probability risk of white on white violence. Why is this?; 8/15/15, 7:27 PM
amielalune said...: B: "....civil rights above your safety?" B.S.!! That has never been part of the job and it sure as hell shouldn't be.

NO ONE'S -- no one's -- rights of any kind are more important than another person's life.

Your comment is indicative of the very sad state of affairs we have right now. I hope you are not an attorney, but fear you are.; 8/15/15, 8:02 PM
B said...: No one's rights are more important than a life? I wonder why we send soldiers to die in n war. Aren't they protecting our rights?; 8/15/15, 8:46 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: AReasonableMan said...
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
There's no mystery here,

So you are saying that Althouse is racially biased but she is doing it as a public service?

Why, no, UnReasonableMan, I am not.

Seriously dude, you have to have the most ironic handle of all time. Was it on purpose?; 8/15/15, 9:41 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: But you state quite clearly that it is necessary to take a racially biased viewpoint in order to balance the bias in the MSM.; 8/15/15, 9:48 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: Mushroom A has a 1/10,000,000 chance of producing a fatality. 5 million people eat Mushroom A in a given year and usually 10 - 20 people die from it.

Mushroom B has a 1/2 chance of producing a fatality. About a dozen people eat B in a given year and 4 - 10 of them die.

By your logic, Mushroom A is more dangerous than Mushroom B, and people who eat mushrooms should be more afraid of eating A than eating B, because more people die in a year from eating A.

You are a rationalizing man, but that's as close as you get to reasonable.; 8/15/15, 9:53 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "We're in her living room here."

You can use literal in a figurative sense bro.

It shows your level of enlightenment is not such to cause arrogance, the typical downfall.

Bravo.; 8/15/15, 9:55 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: It is amazing to me that ostensibly well educated people have such a poor understanding of the statistics of risk assessment. There is a vastly greater chance of a white person dying from white on white violence than dying from black on white violence. Which is the bigger problem for whites? There is a vastly greater chance of white people dying from heart attacks than dysentry. Which is the bigger problem for whites? How simple do I have to make this?; 8/15/15, 9:58 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM:t is amazing to me that ostensibly well educated people have such a poor understanding of the statistics of risk assessment.

Conditional probability, how does it work?

I will fill a bowl with 10 mushrooms, and you must eat one at random. How many of Mushroom A would you like and how many of Mushroom B?

In case you missed it I restate the probabilities here:

Mushroom A has a 1/10,000,000 chance of producing a fatality. 5 million people eat Mushroom A in a given year and usually 10 - 20 people die from it.

Mushroom B has a 1/2 chance of producing a fatality. About a dozen people eat B in a given year and 4 - 10 of them die.

By your logic, Mushroom A is more dangerous than Mushroom B, and people who eat mushrooms should be more afraid of eating A than eating B, because more people die in a year from eating A.

You are a rationalizing man, but that's as close as you get to reasonable.; 8/15/15, 10:07 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: I can't find stats on Russian roulette but lets say 50 people die that way annually in the US.

30,000 people die in car accidents annually.

Which is safer, driving or Russian roulette? I await your in-depth risk analysis.; 8/15/15, 10:11 PM
Gahrie said...: There is a vastly greater chance of a Black person dying from Black on Black violence than dying from White on Black violence. Which is the bigger problem for blacks? ... Which is the bigger problem for society? How simple do I have to make this?; 8/15/15, 10:15 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Let's try again. If you were murdered, would it be more likely that you were killed by a white or a black (using statistical probabilities averaged across the entire country)? We already know the answer, you are vastly more likely to be killed by a white. Rudimentary risk assessment suggests, therefore, that white on white violence should be the major concern of white people. Yet, for some reason, Althouse focuses exclusively on black on white violence. Why is that?; 8/15/15, 10:16 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM:n. If you were murdered, would it be more likely that you were killed by a white or a black (using statistical probabilities averaged across the entire country)? We already know the answer, you are vastly more likely to be killed by a white.

If you were attacked by an animal, it is vastly more likely to have been a dog than a cougar. So cougars must be much safer pets then, right? Why do we warn people about the danger of cougars? Must be some kind of racism.; 8/15/15, 10:19 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM:We already know the answer, you are vastly more likely to be killed by a white.

No, 50% of murders have black perpetrators. But that's not your fundamental statistical error. It's that you are conflating conditional probability with absolute probability.

And you are therefore recommending that we eat toxic mushrooms, keep cougars as pets, and play Russian roulette rather than drive.; 8/15/15, 10:21 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "the MSM and SJW brigade tries to convince the public"

No, with surreal pant creases, the MSM* and SJW tried, and succeeded to convince you they have the ability with credibility to try and convince the public of anything the public doesn't already strongly suspect.

So, like a wealth tax, I give credit to Leftist's success, and like a wealth tax, I want to take that very success from them post haste.

Ergo, they ain't got no damn power and frankly they never *(&%^*(&%^ did the )(*&%^ *(&%^&)(*&^ first place either.

*you don't mean mainstreammedia do you? Are you advertising they are better than you, namely normal, and you're some kind of stupid freak who calls his enemies normal as opposed to yourself, who must be abnormal if all you can argue is their normalcy? I never know if this msm shit is moby trolling or people just don't think at all about framing because they are arrogant in their use of the Left's language. Christ some of the same people who recognize when others use the Left's language use terms like msm to refer to the enemy. (&))(* *&%^(** %(% (*%^^; 8/15/15, 10:22 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Gahrie said...
There is a vastly greater chance of a Black person dying from Black on Black violence than dying from White on Black violence. Which is the bigger problem for blacks? ... Which is the bigger problem for society? How simple do I have to make this?

So now you have adopted my argument. This is progress.

The specific issue in the news recently has been police violence against blacks. Surely abuse of state power is a concern to you. I fully support any effort to bring police violence, abuse or corruption into the open. In particular, the specific problem in Ferguson, of taxation by citation, is endemic across the country. The police prey on the population in order to pay their salaries - it's like something out of the dark ages. It is a chronic problem in the town next to mine. My wife refuses to go there anymore after receiving one to many bullshit citations.; 8/15/15, 10:29 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "hey let's self-identify as in direct opposition of (to) the mainstream and then bitch when we get labeled extreme."

"okay."

Okay so MSM it is then.

Great.; 8/15/15, 10:31 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: You claimed the people disagreeing with you don;t understand risk analysis. Please answer one of my simple examples:

Is mushroom A safer than mushroom B?

Are cougars safer than dogs?

Is Russian roulette safer than driving?

You can't accuse people of not understanding stats and then just ignore a direct challenge, it makes you look like a moron.; 8/15/15, 10:32 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM:

The vast majority of white murders are committed by whites. Look it up.

That's not what you said.

You said "If you were murdered, would it be more likely that you were killed by a white or a black (using statistical probabilities averaged across the entire country)".

The answer to what you said is 50%. The white on white rate is 83%.

You can't tell the difference between the two statements, if you are white and killed by a white vs who is the race of your killer with your own race unspecified.

Again, you are conflating conditional with absolute probabilities. Please answer my simple examples.; 8/15/15, 10:34 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Well, like Syd Musseburghers momma, neither did mine raise a quitter.

So, it's all Ted Cruz.

You fools don't know why even though I've already told you, but it is one word.

Harvard.

He is better than you.

Better than the media.

Better than the meager Obama Harvard legacy, such as it can be.

This is what the American people need to know. So I am pushing it to you now. You will push it. The pushing becomes self-sustaining in ways that would cause medical issues in scientists were they not smart enough to not care.; 8/15/15, 10:46 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "don;t understand risk analysis"

Would a troll whose goal is to laugh at you taking its idiocy seriously be accurate to say you don't understand risk analysis? Please understand I think you time and efforts are valuable.

I have posted 5 or 6 comments just on this thread so I do not aim to speak from some position held in better stead than your's is, yet I apologize for any hostility I have created.; 8/15/15, 10:50 PM
Gabriel said...: @Guildofcannonballs: I do not know if ARM believes himself to be trolling, but I want other people reading his comments to understand why his analysis is bogus.

It's a common fallacy to say things like "more people die from A than from B so A is more dangerous". The risk to a person engaging in an activity is a conditional, not absolute probability.

I am as likely as anyone else to die in a auto accident, but my risk from playing Russian roulette is zero because I don't do such an ridiculously dangerous thing.; 8/15/15, 10:58 PM
Gahrie said...: If you were murdered, would it be more likely that you were killed by a white or a black (using statistical probabilities averaged across the entire country)? We already know the answer, you are vastly more likely to be killed by a white.

Only if you are White. If you are Black, it is more likely that you were killed by another Black.; 8/15/15, 11:17 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Gahrie said...
Only if you are White.

Since Althouse is white and the issue was the prevalence of white on white violence this was not the slightest bit ambiguous, to anyone paying attention.

Gabriel said...
I want other people reading his comments to understand why his analysis is bogus.

You are deluding yourself here. You desperately want black people to be bad. They do have higher murder rates, but this has relatively little effect on whites, who kill each other at such a rate as to ensure that they remain the dominant source of risk to each other.; 8/16/15, 3:44 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: What is striking here is your inability to address the issue of why Althouse ignores white on white violence to focus exclusively on black on white violence. Why is this?; 8/16/15, 3:46 AM
Paco Wové said...: "You desperately want black people to be bad."

ANNOUNCER: That's all for today, folks. But stay tuned for the next comment thread, for the future adventures of ARM, The Racist-Finder General of Althouseland!; 8/16/15, 9:23 AM
Gahrie said...: What is striking here is your inability to address the issue of why Althouse ignores white on white violence to focus exclusively on black on white violence. Why is this?

Because no one is denying, or trying to minimize, White on White violence.; 8/16/15, 9:27 AM
Gahrie said...: You are deluding yourself here. You desperately want black people to be bad. They do have higher murder rates, but this has relatively little effect on whites, who kill each other at such a rate as to ensure that they remain the dominant source of risk to each other.

But there is a much higher chance that a Black man will kill a White man than a White man will kill a Black man, while the MSM and popular culture present the opposite.; 8/16/15, 9:30 AM
Gahrie said...: Depending on your definition of bad, Black people are bad. Black mothers abort Black children at appalling rates. Black men father bastards at alarming rates. Black teenagers kill Black teenagers at alarming rates. Black people commit violent crime at alarming rates.

Indeed, the primary problem Black people face in the US today is their own bad behavior.; 8/16/15, 9:32 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Paco Wové said...
Facetious nonsense.

Gahrie said...
Black people are bad.

It is genuinely sad that asking simple straightforward questions gets you labelled as a witch hunter. What kind of mind needs to distance itself from these simple questions in this manner?; 8/16/15, 9:52 AM
Gahrie said...: Gahrie said...
Black people are bad.

Nice way to chop the quote to make me appear racist.

Of course, that's what you do.....; 8/16/15, 10:12 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: You wrote it. No one made you do it.; 8/16/15, 10:23 AM
Gahrie said...: What I wrote was not racist. What you dishonestly quoted makes me appear racist. Pretty standard fare for you SJW types.

Normally I just tell people to fuck off when they call me a racist, but I'm in a good mood this morning.; 8/16/15, 10:40 AM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: AReasonableMan said...
It is amazing to me that ostensibly well educated people have such a poor understanding of the statistics of risk assessment. There is a vastly greater chance of a white person dying from white on white violence than dying from black on white violence. Which is the bigger problem for whites? There is a vastly greater chance of white people dying from heart attacks than dysentry. Which is the bigger problem for whites? How simple do I have to make this?

I'll make it simple for you. You are walking alone at night on a street. You see a stranger approaching you. By all means, be on guard, regardless. But if you are not more concerned if it is a Black stranger than if it is a White stranger, you are a fool who understands NOTHING of crime statistics and the current cultural realities.

Political Correctness can literally get you killed. It has been wittily described as a War on Noticing.

Indeed.; 8/16/15, 12:00 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: A neurotic fool ignores the most prevalent threat to focus on the less common one. The focus on black violence when white on white violence is the vastly greater threat to whites is literally neurotic. Like a fear of flying.; 8/16/15, 12:53 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Godfather, ever since Trayvon, "unarmed" simply means "black", like Vonderrit Myers, the unarmed yoof who shot at a cop with a .380 caliber sandwich.; 8/16/15, 1:25 PM
Robert Cook said...: "As far as I'm concerned, B, doing their jobs properly involves shooting scum at every opportunity."

Spoken like someone hungry to be a minion in a brutal dictatorship.; 8/16/15, 4:11 PM
Fen said...: "Yes, what in holy hell has gotten into thugs these days"

I got to spend the day in a holding cell with some of them (missed traffic court). Most of them were arrest for identity theft, credit card fraud, skimming. One guy explained how his racket works, how his gang buys and sells credit card numbers. They got caught being stupid - used a stolen credit card at a Macy's, but couldn't help but go to several other store in that mall to buy useless shit. Security had them in 15 mins.

The interesting part of my experience was learning that, for them, criminal activity is just like a job is too us. Getting arrested is just the cost of doing business. And the reason there is so much violence (even amoung his skimmers) is because they are stupid - violence as a last resort turns up very quickly when your lack of reason gimps the number of options on the table when things go bad.

Speaking of stupid, it never occurred to these guys, as they were sharing all their trade secrets, that the holding cell is wired for sound.; 8/16/15, 4:13 PM
Gahrie said...: Spoken like someone hungry to be a minion in a brutal dictatorship.

...Oh come on Squealor, you're making this too easy.....; 8/16/15, 4:15 PM
Fen said...: ARM: prevalent threat to focus on the less common one. The focus on black violence when white on white violence is the vastly greater threat to whites is literally neurotic.

[ARM wants you to ignore the black mob of racists he as agitated against you, just sit back and trust him]

Flaw in your argument is the # of deaths does not necessarily indicate what's a greater threat. Huge difference between white man killing his cheating wife and black man killing random strangers because they are white.; 8/16/15, 4:17 PM
Fen said...: Spoken like someone hungry to be a minion in a brutal dictatorship.

That's rich coming from the Marxist that thinks he'll be invited to join the Inner Party after the first round of purges from his Dear Leader....; 8/16/15, 4:19 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Simon did not offer any criticism of Brown, just Wilson."

He's criticizing what he appraises as Wilson's poor handling of his job, which led to the sequence of events in which Wilson killed Brown. He's pointing out that cops who do their jobs badly can cause--or allow to happen--such potentially avoidable situations. What's the point of criticizing Brown, even if Brown was in the wrong? If Simon is correct, it was Wilson's error that allowed Brown's aggression to lead to the shooting. Officers are--or at one time were--expected to be able to handle situations such that they could prevent or minimize the possibility of encounters becoming violent, or deadly.; 8/16/15, 4:20 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: Keep digging that hole, stats boy.

For the third time, answer my questions:

Is Mushroom A more dangerous than Mushroom B? Which do you serve at your party or eat for a snack.

Is a cougar a safer animal to approach than a dog? After all, thousands of people are attacked by dogs and hardly any one by cougars?

Is Russian roulette safer than driving? 30,000 killed annually in auto accidents but hardly anyone at Russian roulette.

You refuse to answer these questions because your answers will either be ridiculous, or contradict your argument that white people are more dangerous to whites than black people.

You can continue to accuse me of racism, but you stand exposed now. Your arguments are statistically invalid and dishonest, and furthermore you know them to be.; 8/16/15, 4:31 PM
Gahrie said...: He's criticizing what he appraises as Wilson's poor handling of his job, which led to the sequence of events in which Wilson killed Brown.

Wilson caused Brown to spend the previous day, and all morning doing drugs.

Wilson caused Brown to rob a store and rough up it's owner.

Wilson caused Brown to attack him instead of cooperating.

Wilson caused Brown to turn around and charge him, rather than cooperate.

Wilson caused Brown's friends to lie about his hands being up.

Wilson caused Brown's step-father to tell the crowd to burn this mother fucker down.; 8/16/15, 4:51 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Gabriel said...
You can continue to accuse me of racism, but you stand exposed now. Your arguments are statistically invalid and dishonest, and furthermore you know them to be.

Mainly what I know is that you are a dummy asking dumb questions. Never called you a racist. You can't even keep that straight.; 8/16/15, 5:15 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Fen said...
Huge difference between white man killing his cheating wife and black man killing random strangers because they are white.

This is so apparently unintentionally revealing that I'm suspicious that you are a Moby.

Why yes, the violence rates of white men are vastly higher than those of white women. Apparently this is an unimportant detail in your mind.; 8/16/15, 5:18 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: Keep digging that hole, stats boy.

For the FOURTH time, answer my LOGICALLY IDENTICAL questions to who is more dangerous whites, whites or blackd:

Is Mushroom A more dangerous than Mushroom B? Which do you serve at your party or eat for a snack.

Is a cougar a safer animal to approach than a dog? After all, thousands of people are attacked by dogs and hardly any one by cougars?

Is Russian roulette safer than driving? 30,000 killed annually in auto accidents but hardly anyone at Russian roulette.

You refuse to answer these questions because your answers will either be ridiculous, or contradict your argument that white people are more dangerous to whites than black people.

You can continue to accuse me of racism, but you stand exposed now. Your arguments are statistically invalid and dishonest, and furthermore you know them to be.; 8/16/15, 5:31 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: Also note that black on white rape is not only higher in relative but even in absolute terms than white on black rape annually.

Even by your bogus reasoning, white people are more in danger from black rapists than white rapists.; 8/16/15, 5:33 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Fen said...
Huge difference between white man killing his cheating wife and black man killing random strangers because they are white.

I can't believe someone would write something like this. Essentially what it says is violence against women is unimportant (I'm not a woman and I'm in control) but violence by black men is very important (it makes me feel inadequate and out of control).; 8/16/15, 5:33 PM
Gahrie said...: I can't believe someone would write something like this. Essentially what it says is violence against women is unimportant (I'm not a woman and I'm in control) but violence by black men is very important (it makes me feel inadequate and out of control).

This is perhaps the most dishonest comment I've ever seen on the internet. It is certainly in the running. Of course, that is par for the course for ARM. It is quite clear that you have simply twisted the meaning of his words into an attack on women, just like you SJW types did to Romney and his binders of women remark. You are simultaneously shameless and shameful.; 8/16/15, 6:46 PM
Gahrie said...: @ARM: Also note that black on white rape is not only higher in relative but even in absolute terms than white on black rape annually.

The number of White men raping Black women is so small it is literally not measurable. The number of Black men raping White women is in the thousands every year.; 8/16/15, 6:48 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: The statistics on rape are not very good at the national level. The one study that is continually referenced by people like you is generally considered very flawed. Even there, however, most white women who are raped are raped by white men. Go figure.; 8/16/15, 7:02 PM
Gahrie said...: The only flawed thing on this thread is your "reasoning". you are dishonest and seek only cheap rhetorical points by using logical fallacies.

In other words...you're a lying clown.; 8/16/15, 7:17 PM
Gabriel said...: @ARM: Keep digging that hole, stats boy.

For the FIFTH time, answer my LOGICALLY IDENTICAL questions to who is more dangerous to whites, other whites or blacks:

Is Mushroom A more dangerous than Mushroom B? Which do you serve at your party or eat for a snack?

Is a cougar a safer animal to approach than a dog? After all, thousands of people are attacked by dogs and hardly anyone by cougars.

Is Russian roulette safer than driving? 30,000 killed annually in auto accidents but hardly anyone at Russian roulette.

You refuse to answer these questions because your answers will either be ridiculous, or contradict your argument that white people are more dangerous to whites than black people.

You can continue to accuse me of racism, but you stand exposed now. Your arguments are statistically invalid and dishonest, and furthermore you know them to be.; 8/16/15, 9:07 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: The issue here is that white men have seem a former monopoly of physical domination of blacks (slavery/ Jim Crow) and women become steadily eroded by the civil rights and feminist movements. Black men, in many ways, are now viewed as more stereotypically masculine than white men: stronger, faster, better at sports and having the biggest dicks. This terrifies a small set of weak, insecure white men who then bleat about what violent bullies black men are. The violence of a small minority of men in black communities is a terrible thing that undermines much of the progress that those communities have made but it has little effect on white people. The dominant source of violence in white communities remains white males.; 8/16/15, 9:53 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: AReasonableMan said...
Black men, in many ways, are now viewed as more stereotypically masculine than white men: stronger, faster, better at sports and having the biggest dicks. This terrifies a small set of weak, insecure white men who then bleat about what violent bullies black men are.

Anyone who would trade even a single IQ point, for any of those other 'attributes', only shows how badly he needs the points he does have.

The violence of a small minority of men in black communities is a terrible thing that undermines much of the progress that those communities have made but it has little effect on white people. The dominant source of violence in white communities remains white males.

And yet one has more to fear from a Black male, than a White male. How interesting. Maybe you are not understanding how stats work, UnReasonableMan?; 8/17/15, 6:46 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: SomeoneHasToSayIt said...
Anyone who would trade even a single IQ point

Asians and white women do better in school these days.; 8/17/15, 8:32 AM
Peter said...: "#FckDaPolice"

Because everyone is so much better off when neighborhoods are policed by gangs and other murderous thugs?; 8/17/15, 9:48 AM
Peter said...: "The Drill SGT" wrote, "Female cops have some strengths and weaknesses. They do well in talking. e.g. problem resolution. Jaw boning a domestic disturbance, etc. However, they have a smaller spectrum of response"

BUT it's not just the spectrum of possible responses to aggression, it's the need to respond in the first place. Because, a large, muscular cop just has a street presence which makes aggression less likely to get started in the first place.; 8/17/15, 9:52 AM
Kirk Parker said...: Drill Sgt,

"A female cop lacks some of those middle capabilities...Talk, Talk, ... wave gun, use gun... "

Whatever happened to Tuco's Dictum???; 8/18/15, 12:17 PM
Nichevo said...: Exactly. I can't understand all the attention being paid to keeping street punks alive.; 8/19/15, 2:16 PM