May 23, 2015

"All I know is that I don't trust police no more. No police. None. I can't recover from this. ...This verdict isn't real. This verdict is fake."

Cleveland cop acquitted of manslaughter.

96 comments:

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Without more information, there appears no real threat; hence no justification for final shots.

David Begley said...

Omaha police officer shot down in cold blood by fugitive convicted felon this week. Funeral on Tuesday. The police officer was scheduled to bring home her preemie baby the day after her murder.

Coupe said...

I hate ebonics in a headline.

Tank said...

Rule #1 about crime stories (and others): You can't trust the "facts" as set forth in the story. Think about some of the "facts" you've read or heard in the news.

The NYT still refers to GZ as a man who shot an unarmed teen, as if that appropriately summarizes what happened.

harrogate said...

That quote about sums it up. The police obviously can kill with impunity . It's too bad

Ann Althouse said...

"Without more information, there appears no real threat; hence no justification for final shots."

If you need more information, that explains why the defense wins in a criminal case.

rhhardin said...

You can't have a fake verdict. It's etymology.

rhhardin said...

Why isn't it "All I don't know is that I don't trust police no more."

Once negation is idempotent, you can add any number for emphasis.

Hagar said...

Send that one in to O'Reilly for word of the day.

rhhardin said...

Orange tips on toy guns to make kids safer also make kids without orange tips less safe.

It justifies assuming it's a real gun that much quicker, when there's no orange tip.

It's a doubt remover.

JAORE said...

Weeks long trial with give and take = acquittal.

Three paragraphs in a news article = GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!

jr565 said...

Im not privy to all the details that the judge heard. But I assume he knows the law, and he found the cop not guilty of the charge.
The number of shots seem excessive to me, though I do recognize that the cops legitimately thought a bullet was fired at them. And so were trying to end the threat (at least that's their story).

Sometimes there are cases wehre the cops do wrong, but are in the right will doing wrong.
The presumption they are going under may be false, but they firmly believe it.

Think of the Abner Louima case.
There they shot an innocent guy. But there were extenuating circumstances. One, he was in a darkened vestibule. He apparently went for his pocket (to presumably show id). The officer at the top of the stairs was starteld by the action and jumped back. Because he was at the top of the stairs he fell off landing on his butt and also discharging his weapon. All other cosp see is their partner going down and hearing a shot. They assume it's abner that shot him and so return fire.
Now, they were clearly mistaken, and a wrongful death occurred .But they operated under the assumption that their partner was shot, and returned fire the way they were supposed to.
If I was a cop and saw my partner go down after hearing a gun shot and after seeing him go to confront the guy in the darkened vestibule I probably would assume he shot my partner and immediately return fire.
It's the downside of humans not always having perfect information.

Doesn't make it right. Doesnt' make it racial. Doesn't make it murder.

Michael K said...

More than 60 police cars pursued the vehicle for 20 miles, sometime hitting speeds more than 100 mph.

When the chase ended in a middle school parking lot, about a dozen officers fired 137 shots at Williams' car, Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy McGlinty said. Each was struck more than 20 times, according to the U.S. Justice Department.

Of the 137 shots, according to prosecutors, the only ones that weren't legally justified were the final 15, allegedly fired by Brelo.

Firing had stopped when Russell's vehicle became trapped between two police cars, the prosecutor said.


Gee. I wonder why they ran ? 100 miles per hour ?

Something's fishy here.

Michael K said...

"The number of shots seem excessive to me, though I do recognize that the cops legitimately thought a bullet was fired at them."

When that many shots are fired it is easy to see why some cops thought they were being shot at.

Why run away at 100 mph ?

harrogate said...

All together now: "I feared for my life."

jr565 said...

Michael K wrote:
More than 60 police cars pursued the vehicle for 20 miles, sometime hitting speeds more than 100 mph.

When the chase ended in a middle school parking lot, about a dozen officers fired 137 shots at Williams' car, Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy McGlinty said. Each was struck more than 20 times, according to the U.S. Justice Department.

See, and I wasnt' even privy to the info about the car chase that preceded this. If after chasing the car they though someone in the car had fired a gun, you can understaind why the might return fire.
How long after it was ascertained that the people in the car were no threat did this guy then jump on the windshield and fire 15 more times.

The prosecutors said shots had stopped, but how long after that did this guy then shoot 15 more times. If it kind of happened concurrently when he was jumping on the windshield at the exact second the order is given to stop firing, he may have simply not hear the order.
However, if he's sitting on the sidelines, everyone's told to stop firing, and he then goes over to the car and jumps on the windshield I'd say he was unjustified.
But I don't know. The judge came ot the conclusion, apparently that the cop was justified in using that degree of force.

jr565 said...

Michael K wrote:
"The number of shots seem excessive to me, though I do recognize that the cops legitimately thought a bullet was fired at them."

When that many shots are fired it is easy to see why some cops thought they were being shot at.

THe misfire causes the cops to shoot, the cops shooting makes it seem to other cops that they are being shot at. It makes sense.

ThreeHeaded Throop said...

...I don't trust police no more...

Only a fool, a member of the ruling class, or another cop trusts police to begin with.

Zeb Quinn said...

White guy judge.

rcocean said...

I always find it amusing that people get bent out of shape because the police fired X number of rounds at a suspect.

It seems that killing someone with 2 bullets is OK, but killing them with 50, is somehow evidence of a dastardly act.

By the way, it only takes one to kill, after that you're just making the corpse bounce.

rcocean said...

If crooks would simply stop attacking police or engaging in 100 mile/hour auto chases, their chance of getting killed would drop dramatically.

William said...

@jr565: I think you're mixing up the Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo cases. Amadou was an illegal immigrant. After the verdict, the mother petitioned and received permission to move herself and her entire family to this country. I guess she's willing to take her chances here. There's not much cause to speak out against police misconduct in her home country.

jr565 said...

At the end of Le Morte D'Arthur there's going to be a big battle between King Arthur and Mordred. However, they decide to put aside their differences and have a big feast before the battle. But they have to not draw any swords, or it will recommence the battle.
One of Arthurs men is eating when an asp comes snaking by on the ground. He innocently draws his sword to kill the asp, and then everyone goes crazy because he drew his sword and the battle commences and every body dies.
War occurs because of misperceptions of actions. When people are tense and lives are on the line this stuff occurs.

jr565 said...

William wrote:
@jr565: I think you're mixing up the Abner Louima and Amadou Diallo cases. Amadou was an illegal immigrant. After the verdict, the mother petitioned and received permission to move herself and her entire family to this country. I guess she's willing to take her chances here. There's not much cause to speak out against police misconduct in her home country.

You're right. Abner Loima was the guy sodomized by a cop in the bathroom with a plunger. CLEARLY that case was cut and dried. But the Diallo case struck me more as a tragic accident.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I hope somebody was there to give him a hug and remind him that time heals all wounds.

William said...

Outside of Clint Eastwood, who thinks clearly in moments of mortal danger? Suge Knight is entitled to run over two people if he feels threatened by them. Trayvon Martin is entitled to bang the head of George Zimmerman against the pavement because he felt threatened. But we hold cops to a higher standard.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

And then there is this.

lemondog said...

Why run away at 100 mph ?

In reading other articles, apparently they were found to have cocaine, barbiturates and marijuana in their systems. One can only assume they feared being arrested for drug use and drug impairment cause protracted flight.

The number of bullets fired does seem excessive.

I would not want to be a cop.

Lem said...

My question is what does it mean for the Baltimore six?

traditionalguy said...

There is one big nuance left out of the article. The Trial Judge acquitted him after he spent an hour explaining the evidence was clear that this single officer on trial for murder today did not shoot them in the head until after they were already shoot to death in the heart by other officers approximately 7 seconds earlier than this saint in blue opened fire.

Cleveland needs a Prosecuting Attorney like Baltimore's...actually biased in favor of doing her job.

Anonymous said...

"...Suge Knight is entitled to run over two people if he feels threatened by them..."

You don't understand. When Suge kills someone it's lèse-majesté.

machine said...

Gz did shoot an unarmed teen...that he started a fight with...

Anonymous said...

Blogger machine said...
Gz did shoot an unarmed teen...that he started a fight with...

5/23/15, 12:32 PM
----------------------

Your eyewitness testimony would have been very important in regard to the case. Where have you been?

Michael K said...

I am trying to maintain my long held mild distrust of cops in spite of the knee jerk reaction by lefties to support all thugs that are black.

I'm trying.

harrogate said...

Michael K., thanks for sharing that testimonial of your very real struggle. If only those who have suffered at the hands of our police and our "justice system" could know what you were struggling with here, they'd surely get some perspective .

Jason said...

If it's worth shooting once, it's worth emptying the clip.


The question I would have is this... "if you thought they were a threat, why did you stand on the hood of the car where you would be an easy target for them?"

But that's why they don't usually let defendants on the stand.

Jack Burton said...

"Brelo Not Guilty Verdict: Judge Presents Detailed Rationale"

I don't know if links are allowed but you can read the judge's reasoning at legalinsurrection dot com/2015/05/brelo-not-guilty-verdict-judge-presents-detailed-rationale/

harrogate said...

Jason the answer to that question would be, not only did he "fear for his life" but he was also really really brave because thin blue line .

Fernandinande said...

Ghosthunter Michael K said...
Why run away at 100 mph ?


I've done it, on an 1100cc motorcycle, to avoid a speeding ticket. It worked.

A friend and another guy were chased by a state patrol car at 80-100mph and didn't even know it; they were riding Ducati 900s in the mountains at 100-120 mph and the guy caught up with them when they stopped to pee. They got ticketed but got off because the cop couldn't identify them as the two bikers he saw at first.

Jason said...

I've seen people do some brave and foolish things under fire. You can get tunnel vision and not every decision you make is optimal.

rcocean said...

Your chance of getting killed resisting arrest is about 1 in a million.

But cop haters love to ramble on and on about it.

Matthew Morris said...

Legal Insurrection has a write up on the facts of the case. The judge got it right.

Emil Blatz said...

How much did this person trust cops the minute before the verdict was announced?

I thought so.

Michael K said...

" If only those who have suffered at the hands of our police and our "justice system" could know what you were struggling with here, they'd surely get some perspective ."

The lefty perspective, of course. I have testified at the trial of a lawsuit filed by a patient of mine who was crippled and his life ruined by the erroneous shot fired by an LAPD cop. He had never been in trouble and had a regular job which the boss held for him for a year until it was obvious he would not recover enough to go back to work.

He was black, by the way.

He lost his case, civil mind you. He never tried to accuse the cops of any crime, just a mistake.

A few years later, Rodney King got millions for a beating he deserved and which left him with no residual injury.

I'm sure you have many more such stories.

Probably in your imagination.

harrogate said...

The Rodney King beating was in its essence a backdrop to the heroic struggles of Michael K, always the center of the universe.

(It occurs to me there could be some real entertainment value in Michael K. and Shouting Thomas holding a "story-off" right here on this blog. )

But some might say that his testimony on behalf of a (happened-to-be-black!) patient, like your own titanic struggle to distrust police, is somehow less important than the question of how police treat citizens, and whether those police stand to face any consequences for misconduct. Those people would be wrong of course.

Michael K said...

"the question of how police treat citizens, and whether those police stand to face any consequences for misconduct. Those people would be wrong of course."

Well, you are, of course.

I know real events do not fit the leftist world view well and are ignored until they get too close to hime. BY then, of course, they are too late.

harrogate said...

Yes , for sure your participation in a lawsuit on behalf of a (happened-to-be-black!) patient is a "real event" that shows there is no problem with how the police treat black citizens. Your anecdote gets to the heart of the matter.

harrogate said...

I just feel like it's about time we all realize the real story here is how it makes white people feel, when we talk about how the police treat black citizens. Michael K. Is trying here, y'all!

Michael K said...

"there is no problem with how the police treat black citizens. Your anecdote gets to the heart of the matter."

No, it is anecdote and concerns my own feelings toward police. In general, I think police have a terrible job especially in black neighborhoods where they are perceived as an enemy. Your allies, that is allies of the left, are PAYING demonstrators to burn down neighborhoods to try to create more mayhem.

You certainly have noble allies.

Robert Cook said...

"A few years later, Rodney King got millions for a beating he deserved...."

This comment impeaches anything you have to to say about...pretty much anything.

Terry said...

I wonder what an unbiased article would have looked like.
Looks like the cop was overcharged for political reasons. There will be more cases like this in the future.

Tank said...

Branca at LI does have his usual thorough breakdown.

He's the go to guy on this kind of thing.

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n.n said...

This isn't about a latent prejudice unless the response would differ in a similar situation with similar circumstances. It doesn't. So the response to the judgment reveals the prejudice of the opponents.

Other than the causal abortion of [wholly innocent] human lives for casual causes (e.g. welfare), the standard for defensible murder (i.e. premeditated termination of a human life) is self-defense, not pro-choice.

Michael K said...

"This comment impeaches anything you have to to say about...pretty much anything."

Cookie feel free to disbelieve that a 90 mile per hour chase and resisting arrest does not deserve a beating, especially when it saved his life.

I followed that case closely. When the LAPD showed up, Melanie Singer, the CHP cop who had chased him, was about to shoot him. He would not lie down and was wiggling his butt at her. I was really sorry she didn't shoot him. Instead, she testified against the guys who did take him down without killing, or seriously hurting him. Then, she retired on disability for stress.

I know that doesn't fit the left wing playbook you read from but it's true.

Feel free to disagree with anything else I say. If I caught you agreeing with me I would have to reassess my position.

Terry said...

It is difficult to wade through the layers of bias in the article, but it looks like the involuntary manslaughter charge didn't stick because they couldn't prove the officer actually killed anyone.
What certain elements in our society would like is for people like officer Brelo to be charged with political crimes. Unlike manslaughter, it is hard to defend yourself against crimes like "endangering the state."

West Texas Intermediate Crude said...

The officer was not guilty of manslaughter because the 2 people in the car were already dead. The only charge that would have stuck was disfiguring a corpse. Perhaps malicious mischief for (further) damaging the car.
Overcharging, for political gain. Just like Baltimore. Let the riots (undocumented retail therapy) begin.

Jess said...

While with my brother, and a friend, we were assaulted by a gang of youths. If I'd had a gun, I wouldn't have stopped shooting, until I was out of bullets.

You don't scare people, unless you're willing to face the consequences of their fear.

harrogate said...

"In general, I think police have a terrible job especially in black neighborhoods where they are perceived as an enemy."

It is truly astonishing that the police in these neighborhoods labor under this perception without having done anything to justify it.

Michael K said...

"It is truly astonishing that the police in these neighborhoods labor under this perception without having done anything to justify it."

Yes, especially when they are half black.

Glad you agree.

Terry said...

Nice strawman you've built there, Harrogate.

James Pawlak said...


A little research (Adams, Ronald U. et. al.; "Street Survival: Tactics For Armed Encounters") will provide evidence that it can take 33-hits from a powerful handgun to stop a criminal.

Alex said...

Nobody cares about the dead Omaha officer because she wasn't purdy. Only purdy people get worship after death.

Alex said...

It is truly astonishing that the police in these neighborhoods labor under this perception without having done anything to justify it.

harrorgate - how about the police just don't go into minority neighborhoods and let the thugs rule?

CWJ said...

"Ghosthunter Michael K said...
Why run away at 100 mph ?

I've done it, on an 1100cc motorcycle, to avoid a speeding ticket. It worked.

A friend and another guy were chased by a state patrol car at 80-100mph and didn't even know it; they were riding Ducati 900s in the mountains at 100-120 mph and the guy caught up with them when they stopped to pee. They got ticketed but got off because the cop couldn't identify them as the two bikers he saw at first."

Out of their own mouths. I sooo love motorcyclists. Such considerate and safety minded people.

Michael K said...

"I've done it, on an 1100cc motorcycle, to avoid a speeding ticket. It worked."

The only problem is that it didn't work for the two guys in this case.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

When a police officer is pulling you over while you are driving you should immediately slow, pull over at the first safe place, shut the car off, place the keys on the dash in plain sight for the police officier, if it is dark turn on your car dome light, put down your window, place both hands on the top of the steering wheel and hold it until directed to get your registration and license.

You should not try to escape.

Anonymous said...

Harrowgate, machine, cookie:

The police are always looking for recruits. sign up and show them how to do it.

The people who are most vociferous in their conduct of the police (military, DEA, CIA, etc.) would never serve in any capacity that would endanger themselves physically. They consider those who do as a curious genus of untermensch that need constant guidance (from afar) by those more intelligent and virtuous.

Gahrie said...

This comment impeaches anything you have to to say about...pretty much anything.

Hey Bob....How come none of the other Black guys in the car with Rodney King got their asses kicked?

The Godfather said...

I'm surprised by the poor marksmanship by our police that is so frequently inferrable from news accounts. You read about 2 or 3 cops emptying their 14-round magazines at some suspect who then jumps a fence and runs away. Firing 100 rounds at the occupants of a stopped car sounds like a waste of expensive, tax-payer-provided ammunition. And if they had the car surrounded, the police may have been endangering each other. Like a circular firing squad.

This reminds me of the final scene in Bonnie and Clyde where the cops, armed with Tommy Guns, mow down the two fugitives in slow motion. The implication seems to be: We ain't taking ANY chances.

In a less well-known (but good) movie, Appaloosa, Ed Harris and Viggo Mortenson have a gun fight with the baddies that seems to be based on the OK Corral. As the two lawmen walk away from the dead bodies strewn behind them, one says, That didn't take long, and the other says, That's because everyone knew how to shoot. The implication being that the Earps, Clantons, etc. at the OK Corral didn't.

And to the point of the specific case we're talking about here, I find it hard to believe simultaneously and beyond a reasonable doubt that (a) the deceased were no threat to the police because they were already dead, and (b) the defendant killed them.

Paco Wové said...

As others have mentioned, Legal Insurrection has a detailed posting on this: http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/05/brelo-not-guilty-verdict-judge-presents-detailed-rationale/

Some key bits:

the chase ended in a school parking lot outside the Cleveland city limits, with Russell using his vehicle as a battering ram against the police cruisers. Faced with this imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm, the 13 officers on scene fired 137 rounds at the vehicle over a 20 second period, mortality wounding Russell and Williams.

Of the 137 rounds fired over those 20 seconds, all parties agreed that the first 122 bullets fired, and all the bullets fired during the first 12 seconds, were legally justified.

The only legal dispute was over the last 15 bullets fired by Brelo during the last 8 seconds, during which Brelo was standing on the hood of Russell’s vehicle and firing through the windshield.


Emphasis added. As has been mentioned, it sounds like what Brelo is really guilty of is desecrating corpses.

machine said...

GZ was not a cop...

Michael K said...

"GZ was not a cop..."

Yes, and I'll bet the number of volunteers for the local security patrol is down big time. They had a lot of burglaries in that condo complex and poor George was a volunteer. Bad luck.

Anybody who is interested in what really happened, I would suggest looking at this site for the real story.

I spent a day there reading all the material on that case a couple of years ago.

Lorenzo said...

"It seems that killing someone with 2 bullets is OK, but killing them with 50, is somehow evidence of a dastardly act."

Not so much "dastardly" as bad training, panic firing, and danger to nearby people from obviously mis-aimed gunshots.

LYNNDH said...

So, 135 rounds were fired. How many cops were there? There were what 20 cop cars in pursuit. If each car had a single cop, and they all fired, then each fired 6.75 rounds. So, not so many per cop then. Even if 10 cops fired their weapon, then it goes up to 13.5 rounds. Sill not many, maybe even not a clip each.

Laslo Spatula said...

Blonde hair, blue eyes, hidden swastika tattoo, Daddy issues, neo-Nazi, blow-job: why not go out on a second date?

Well, I picked her up at her place, and got to meet her downstairs roommate. His name was Freddy, but he informed me that this meant "F-Ready', as in: when the racial wars come he'll be Fuckin' Ready. So you know: small talk.

We left to go to Denny's again -- besides most cultural cuisine, she also thought The International House of Pancakes was too ethnically diverse -- and so she had pancakes again.

It was a strange sensation as we sat there: I knew she was nuts, and that she had a swastika tattoo hidden below her low-rise jeans, yet it somehow felt dangerous. Plus she had slipped off her Doc Martens and was adroitly massaging my balls with her feet under the table.

"So," I said, trying to make any kind of conversation, "Freddy certainly seems to think bad things are coming to this country, racially."

"That's 'F-Ready,' she corrected me, then said "Of course the blacks are going to try to fuck things up and then want the white man's shit, silly: it's all they can do."

"You can't seriously mean that," I said, knowing that she very much indeed meant that seriously: when we lie to ourselves to have sex we try to insert a weak token of resistance.

"Oh, silly," she said, shaking her head sweetly. "We don't have anything more against a black man than we do against a well-meaning white retard, except for the color of his skin."

"Isn't that a little harsh?" I asked.

"To white retards or black people?" she answered. She got me there, so I stirred my coffee. noticing it was black-with-copious-milk; she drank sweet iced tea.

"I have to know: you don't call black people the 'N'-word, do you? Because that is kind of a red line for me, usually." There: a firm stance on the side of righteousness. I felt better already.

"Oh, silly," she said, sipping her sweet tea: "We don't ever call black people niggers anymore. That just isn't done nowadays, in public."

"That's good, I guess..."

"Now if they get uppity we might call them a coon, but that is perfectly respectable, being that the raccoon is one of God's creatures. Like the monkey and the gorilla."

So after dinner we had anal sex. Somehow, the tattoo on the small of her back that read "Heil Hilter" made it seem okay, that it didn't say "Hitler," after all: maybe this was all just a quirky game, I thought, as she then made me ejaculate on her face.

"You shoot your load like a REAL American," she said, wiping her chin.

"Have you ever seen an 'unreal' American shoot his load?" I asked.

"They got videos of that on the internet, silly," she said, lighting a cigarette. "Them coons have some big dicks, though, I can tell you that..."


I am Laslo.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Doesn't 137 bullets in a case like this strike anyone at all as ... a mite excessive? Yes, yes, long high-speed chase, yadda yadda. But you use enough force to bring them down, no more. Not everything has to end like The Gauntlet.

Anonymous said...

"Since evidence doesn't prove Brelo's shots were the ones that killed the pair, he can't be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter."

Meaning, they might or might be dead when Brelo fired at them. So he couldn't be guilty of manslaughter.

But,jumping on their car and kept firing at the occupants, Brelo definitely should be guilty of something.

richard mcenroe said...

Michael Dulak Thompson Here in LA the Sheriff's department fired 120 shots at one suspect on foot, hitting him once.

In a traffic stop near my house a CHP officer fired eleven shots at a range of about three feet and hit the suspect once. If the guy hadn't died the video would have been hysterical. The cop actually did a take and stared at his gun like IT did something wrong.

JCC said...

@ Michelle -

Undoubtedly, the number of rounds fired, the number of officers firing...both indicate a serious problem with their training and discipline. But neither of those equate with criminal violations. Assuming one officer could have used deadly force, then 20 officers presumably were likewise justified since the justification is an individual responsibility, not collective. Deadly force is at the extreme end of the spectrum, so there is no such thing as excessive use of deadly force, unless, for instance, an innocent person is struck by a wayward round, which could happen even if only a single shot were fired. The force used may have been careless, reckless even but since no innocent person was harmed, no law was volated.
Stupid? Certainly. The bad guys were surrounded, and the cops probably endangered each other. Think circular firing squad. But bad taste, poor judgement don't a crime make.

Birches said...

137 rounds by 13 cops is about 10 rounds per cop in only 20 seconds.

It seems that killing someone with 2 bullets is OK, but killing them with 50, is somehow evidence of a dastardly act.

By the way, it only takes one to kill, after that you're just making the corpse bounce.


Yes.

Spouse always says, "If you've decided to aim and shoot your gun at another human being, you've decided you want them dead. So you're going to shoot as if you want them dead. No knee shots. No, oh maybe one will do the trick. This isn't the movies."

Birches said...

Wow. I amend my comment above. The first 122 rounds were fired by 13 officers in only 12 seconds. That's only 9 rounds an officer in a very, very short amount of time considering what had preceded the shooting.

Paul said...

When ANYONE is confronted with a deadly confrontation they defend themselves. Others present may very well do the same. As a result it's very easy for all present to open fire at once.

Now when most people were armed with six shoot revolvers not so many rounds were fired, but now days with 15 shooters 9 rounds each to get the car stopped is not unusual.

Bruce Hayden said...

A friend and another guy were chased by a state patrol car at 80-100mph and didn't even know it; they were riding Ducati 900s in the mountains at 100-120 mph and the guy caught up with them when they stopped to pee. They got ticketed but got off because the cop couldn't identify them as the two bikers he saw at first.

Reminds me of when I was almost 18. Was checking out the aerodynamics of a Firebird I had damaged the week before, which meant the 120 mph speedometer was essentially buried. Pulled off, and about a mile or two later was pulled over by a state trooper. Told me that I was pulling away from him, then pulled off the freeway. Was ticketed for 45 in a 35, which I immediately paid. A week or two later, I found that stretch of road was 45.

Big Mike said...

Not quite as egregious as the Prince Jones killing in Fairfax County, VA, back in 2001, but still pretty bad on the surface.

Right now it appears to me, a conservative white male in his 60's, that our police have evolved into a "shoot first and determine whether the shooting was justified later" mode of operation. I don't understand why police officers think that's sustainable.

EMD said...

But we hold cops to a higher standard.

As we should.

EMD said...

Orange tips on toy guns to make kids safer also make kids without orange tips less safe.

It justifies assuming it's a real gun that much quicker, when there's no orange tip.

It's a doubt remover.


Wrong case. That was also in Cleveland where 2 morons decided the best course of action was to roll up 5 feet away from a 12 year old and gun him down before he had a chance to do much of anything.


Bruce Hayden said...

It really isn't that hard shooting 10 rounds or so that quickly. In an NRA CCW class, the instructor had us all do it. The problem is in hitting something when pulling the trigger as quickly as these officers probably were doing. Or, more accurately hitting what they were shooting at. No surprise that they were missing over 80% of the time - they very likely weren't allowing enough time to reaim after the recoil of the previous shot.

JCC said...

Elkh1 -

"...should be guilty of something."

With all due respect, there is no crime of Felonious Something or Another, or Violating the General Rule of What Someone Else Thinks is OK, Depending Upon Who Is Doing It and To Whom. Etc.

What should the cop be guilty of?

Big Mike said...

But then there's this.

buwaya puti said...

I wonder whether the use of 15-round magazine automatic pistols by police is justifiable. It seems to lead to tremendous, poorly aimed fusillades. This seems like it endangers bystanders and other police more than it helps hit the criminals.
Perhaps they should go back to the old double action revolvers.

Anonymous said...

Over the last few decades violent crimes are way down in this nation.

During that time, police officers have received more training, prisons have filled up, state and local officers have gotten more and better equipment and the war on drugs has ramped up.

When we take away the officers equipment, empty out the prisons, and legalize drugs, and violent crime goes way up, I predict a lot of people saying, "Correlation doesn't equal causation."

Rusty said...

Birches said...
Wow. I amend my comment above. The first 122 rounds were fired by 13 officers in only 12 seconds. That's only 9 rounds an officer in a very, very short amount of time considering what had preceded the shooting.

Personally, I think once they had them stopped they should have drawn lots.

"OK. Bill drew the short straw so Bill gets to empty his clip in them first.
now. Who's next?"

buwaya puti said...

Putting people in prison is one thing that should be done, and I think it is the one thing that has done most to suppress crime.
But to achieve this it was never necessary to over-arm the police.

Michael The Magnificent said...

Endangering innocent lives by driving at high speeds through the city , then using your car as a weapon as you try to ram police cars and run over police officers once they've trapped you in a parking lot.

And it doesn't end well for you?

Who'd a thunk?