March 25, 2015

"State trooper, bank robbery suspect kill each other in shootout in Fond du Lac."



Last night, in Wisconsin, another shooting of a citizen by a cop.

In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force.

89 comments:

traditionalguy said...

God Bless the State trooper who willingly risked his life so that people he did not know could live another day.

Curious George said...

Just waiting for ARM to bemoan if not for a bloodthirsty cop, a bank robber would be alive today.

chickelit said...

No angelic photos of the bank robber in cap and gown?

kcom said...

I've heard he was a gentle giant.

great Unknown said...

"In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force."

Would you care to bet on that?

The Drill SGT said...

chickelit said...
No angelic photos of the bank robber in cap and gown?


Given WI demographics, it's at least 50/50 that the robber was white, perhaps with a John Deere hat. Not a minority teenager. If the guy had Tea Party connections, we could work with that though...

PS: God Bless the Sheepdog and his family

chickelit said...

@Drill Sgt: But even if the bank robber were white, doesn't he deserve fawning accolades? Unless he's too old to link to high school. To not do so would be racist on the media's part.

traditionalguy said...

Or what if it was a Swede killing a Norwegian. Or, God forbid, a Dane shooting a German. This racial policing stuff has got to stop.

Anonymous said...

My heart goes out to all who have been affected by this tragedy.

Michael said...

Another cop shot by an unarmed black teen? Or trigger happy cop gunning down a citizen on his way home from visiting the bank? In broad night.

Anonymous said...

and a big "fuck you, asshole" to the douche bags who see this horrific shooting as nothing more than an opportunity to attack others they have a difference of opinion with.

A police officer won't be going home to his family, you fucking pricks. Can't you put a hold on your blind hate long enough to be respectful for just one post?

Freder Frederson said...

You have reached a new low, Ann! You must have known the reaction your post would get from some of your horribly racist commenters.

When has anyone said that cops should not be allowed to shoot armed bank robbery suspects?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Althouse said…
In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force.


Childish and petulant post by Althouse. The suspect was armed and had shot someone.

Prior complaints about the police referred to the shooting of unarmed individuals and the paramilitary approach which results in innocent bystanders also being killed.

As madisonfella said, attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible.

BarrySanders20 said...

Reports say the bank robber also likely killed a 65 year old man after the heist. Probably to steal his truck when ditching the first stolen get-away car.

chickelit said...

Freder Frederson said...
You have reached a new low, Ann! You must have known the reaction your post would get from some of your horribly racist commenters.

When has anyone said that cops should not be allowed to shoot armed bank robbery suspects?


Remember #teamdorner?

What was up with that?

Laslo Spatula said...

"In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force."

A perfectly crafted Rorschach Test sentence. Everyone will parse a different motive or understanding of what Althouse 'really' meant by it.

I see a butterfly.


I am Laslo.

chickelit said...

As madisonfella said, attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible.

I was just wondering if there was any Venn overlap between "teamdorner" types and the folks who caterwauled over Trayvon, Michael Brown, Tony Robinson et al.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Laslo Spatula said...
A perfectly crafted Rorschach Test sentence.


Doesn't make it any less petulant or childish. Or less exploitative.

qwerty said...

"In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force."

Because this is how this is supposed to work.

Curious George said...

"madisonfella said...
and a big "fuck you, asshole" to the douche bags who see this horrific shooting as nothing more than an opportunity to attack others they have a difference of opinion with.

A police officer won't be going home to his family, you fucking pricks. Can't you put a hold on your blind hate long enough to be respectful for just one post?"

Why you mad brah?

MaxedOutMama said...

My condolences to the family and friends of the trooper and the slain 60 year old man.

My compassion to the family and friends of the bank robber/murderer.

Curious George said...

"AReasonableMan said...
Childish and petulant post by Althouse. The suspect was armed and had shot someone.

Prior complaints about the police referred to the shooting of unarmed individuals and the paramilitary approach which results in innocent
bystanders also being killed. "

"Unarmed man." Google image "man beaten to death" and get back to us you moron.

And ignoring that a armed cop being attacked faces the risk of being disarmed, and the attacker armed.

Moron.

I Callahan said...

A police officer won't be going home to his family, you fucking pricks. Can't you put a hold on your blind hate long enough to be respectful for just one post?

It's not blind hate, fella, it's cynicism. Cynicism born by constant BS from the media and lefties (like a lot of the ones who post in these very threads). Cynicism that exists because of the complete double standard put out by people on your side.

So at least try to understand.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

What do we want?!?

(...)

C'mon lefties you know the words

WHAT DO WE WANT?!?

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Unarmed. What bullshit.

Remember the Gentle Giant©CNN was originally shot while going for the officers gun and St Trayvon©NYT was shot while pounding a man's head into the cement.

MadisonMan said...

What do we want?!?

Springtime!

When do we want it?!

Now!

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

It was a few nights ago I finally got around to watching The Fastest Gun Alive (1956).

Not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination, but it might be noteworthy for its use of cinematography to put a new twist on the wild west showdown cliche.

Perhaps that was an innovation, like the "Odessa Steps" scene in Battleship Potemkin (1925). But I'm just talking out of my ass, here. Seems to be the thing to do.

David said...

Did the young trooper die because he hesitated to fire his weapon first? No details yet, but perhaps he used too much forbearance. What kind of training did he get at the police academy for situations like this?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Althouse has led a privileged, easy life, detached from the gritty reality of many peoples lives. As such, she is perfectly comfortable exploiting the deaths of both minority youths and hard-working cops to increase her click count.

MadisonMan said...

@ARM, and you fell for it!

Michael K said...

"As madisonfella said, attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible. "

So is the crap shoveled out by the left about "unarmed teenagers" seen on video committing crimes shortly before the confrontation.

Not all policemen go home safe after their shift.

The rookie might have hesitated long enough.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

MadisonMan said...
@ARM, and you fell for it!


A cop and an innocent bystander died. The mind that wants to create empty word games around this tragedy doesn't seem quite right does it? Even a little sick, maybe?

Alexander said...

Yeah. I'm sure all these people were just as eager demanding civility and time to digest the facts in the case of:

Zimmerman
Ferguson
and let's not forget TEA PARTY KILLER PROMPTED BY SARAH PALIN ATTEMPTS TO ASSASSINATE DEMOCRAT CONGRESSMAN.
Or what about Sandy Hook? Aurora? Jackie the catfisher who cried rape?

Nope, not in the slightest. Strike while the iron's hot... unless it goes against the narrative, then demand time for it to go away.

Civility is bullshit.

Big Mike said...

Looks like the same old tactics are still being (ab)used by the lefties. They push a meme about evil cops, or evil baby-rapig soldiers, then a cop or a soldier dies heroically and it's "attempts to score political points off this man's death is [sic] contemptible."

It's a routine that apparently never gets old as far are lefties are concerned. I remember it being used in the 1960's when I was a bit left myself (though never so extreme as the Althouse resident trolls).

As for madisonfella, I'll "put a hold on my blind hate" as soon as he does. I don't disarm unilaterally.

gerry said...

Can't you put a hold on your blind hate long enough to be respectful for just one post?

This, from Inga? Can you please post irony trigger alerts before smearing yourself all over the page?

gerry said...

As madisonfella said, attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible.

More irony.

ANY attempt to score political points off any person's death is contemptible, especially when they used outright leftist lies like "Hands up don't shoot", and when they result in gross property damage, looting, and plummeting real estate values for the town ravaged by the leftist opportunists (black homeowners at that!).

What self-righteous, hypocritical bullshit.

Jim said...

Gerry +1 +1

Alex said...

traditionalguy said...
God Bless the State trooper who willingly risked his life so that people he did not know could live another day.


A suckers bet. Why would I give my one and only life for a concept?

William said...

It is frequently noted that there are many occupations that are more dangerous than that of police officer. Maybe so, but the cops are duty bound to go to scenes of danger and crisis and negotiate with crazies, assholes, and felons. It's a stressful job, perhaps more stressful than other dangerous jobs. It's easy to make a wrong decision or, at least, a non optimum decision under such conditions. The cops deserve more sympathy.

William said...

Just recently a video of a group of teenaged girls beating down another girl at MCDonald's made the rounds. The victim lay motionless on the floor. One girl looked down on and decided to kick her in the head one last time. Then she stepped back, thought about it, and decided to give her one more kick in the head. Can this girl, the kicker, be fairly described as an unarmed teenager.

Michael K said...

"Can this girl, the kicker, be fairly described as an unarmed teenager."

She is probably on the early decision list for Yale.

Ann Althouse said...

I think it's important for those who worry that the police are too quick to react in self-defense to pay attention to what happens if they are too slow.

I don't know exactly what happened here, and it should be investigated. Maybe the police could have handled this differently and no one would have died.

The options are all imperfect.

Freder Frederson said...

Remember #teamdorner?

What was up with that?


Congratulations, you found a twitter feed where a small number of people said some really abhorrent things! What a shock.

clint said...

Not nearly as much fun to join in a five-minute-hate against someone who is already dead.

Freder Frederson said...

I think it's important for those who worry that the police are too quick to react in self-defense to pay attention to what happens if they are too slow.

You are assuming facts that you have no evidence for and unnecessarily riling up your racist base.

Ann Althouse said...

The idea that we have to simply honor the dead... I don't believe that, and I wonder if anyone really does.

Those who say this is only an occasion to observe the loss and not to look at the larger picture and think about police work in general... well, I question why you are saying that. What interests are served by this demand? I don't believe it's just the profound respect for the loss of life. You wouldn't be in the comments saying, to cite one example, "a big "fuck you, asshole" to the douche bags" if that's where your head was.

Ann Althouse said...

"You are assuming facts that you have no evidence for and unnecessarily riling up your racist base."

You are copy and pasting part of a comment that continues with "don't know exactly what happened here, and it should be investigated. Maybe the police could have handled this differently and no one would have died."

How utterly dishonorable of you.

You are posing as upset that others are riled? But look at you. How baldly hypocritical do you want to be?

Calling the commentariat "racist" and accusing me of intending to stir up racists... that's complete and disreputable trash.

So much for the profound respect for the dead.

Ridiculous.

Sigivald said...

In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force.

Wanna bet?

Just not as many, and almost nobody will take them seriously, and they won't get any traction.

MadisonMan said...

The trooper was only 21 years old. Wow that's young!

Link.

Drago said...

Freder: "Congratulations, you found a twitter feed where a small number of people said some really abhorrent things! What a shock"

Oh, so now we are reset to the standard that not all of a group or even an extended group or even non-affiliated group members should be held accountable for the words of one or a few?

Is this the newest position of the left adopted about 5 minutes ago?

Drago said...

Freder: "You are assuming facts that you have no evidence for and unnecessarily riling up your racist base."

"racist base" apparently applies to individuals to who were unwilling to accept without evidence any of the "facts" put forth by the lefties on any number of shootings/rape accusations these last few months/years.

Alexander said...

I should think Freder is more concerned over the fact that now being called the 'racist base' no longer prompts "I'm not a racist!" followed by a retreat of one's position... but to simply pointing out that Freder and his like are idiots.

Being called a racist only stings the first few hundred times! Try again, Freder.

On the side, care to play the game of 'guess the perp'. I'll grant you that Wisconsin's demographics make it slightly more challenge, but I'm going to trust my racist ability to notice patterns and predict that it's the usual suspect. Although I have to admit, shooting a bystander to get out of the vehicle that would obviously be noted from the crime scene shows an unusual amount of forward thinking...

So on second thought, probably a Mormon tea-partier from Iowa, somewhere in the 55-70 age range.

traditionalguy said...

The Professor nailed Freeder, but actually that was one of his better comments compared to most.

MadisonMan said...

Alexander, you're embarrassing yourself.

It's baffling to me that someone my daughter's age could have been a State Trooper.

I'm now old I guess. When Dad dies, I'll officially become part of the oldest generation in my family. That's a fright.

Alexander said...

You're right. I went over the line. It was unnecessary and stupid.

richard mcenroe said...

I'm surprised Madisonfella's fingers didn't burst into flames typing that...

Anonymous said...

A cop and an innocent bystander died. The mind that wants to create empty word games around this tragedy doesn't seem quite right does it? Even a little sick, maybe?

The Left has one argument, "Shut up!"

If they aren't calling you a racist, or a misogynist, they are saying you're sick and not quite right.

The reason they don't want us to talk about this Police Officers death is because we may come to the conclusion that he hesitated due to the fact that he didn't want to be the next Ferguson, or the next Trayvon Martin.

ARM and his ilk are responsible for this officer's death because they take racial tension in this country and use it for political advantage.

They don't want this pointed out, however, so they put forth the counter argument of, "Shut up!"

Big Mike said...

It's baffling to me that someone my daughter's age could have been a State Trooper.

@MadMan, I was just slightly older than that when I received my "Greetings" letter from the local draft board. (Student deferments had been cancelled for graduate students and the lottery system had not yet been put in place). With a lot less luck than I had with my assignments I could have been pretty much the trooper's age and getting shot at, and killing people with my own weapons, in the rice paddies of Southeast Asia in 1969.

I hope the young trooper had good training and I hope he followed it well. I think an after-action analysis to determine whether that training could be improved is not out of line.

HipsterVacuum said...

But eric, they care about "minority youth."

Freder Frederson said...

Calling the commentariat "racist" and accusing me of intending to stir up racists.

A good chunk of your commeteriat is racist. I will supply you plenty of posts that demonstrate as much if you don't believe it.

As for your intent. I can't think of any other reason you would post these remarks. Maybe, if you explained yourself better.

And the "don't know what happened here" part of your post just makes you look worse. Maybe you should have waited to get some more facts in.

Alex said...

Frederer just got a smackdown!

Ann Althouse said...
"You are assuming facts that you have no evidence for and unnecessarily riling up your racist base."

You are copy and pasting part of a comment that continues with "don't know exactly what happened here, and it should be investigated. Maybe the police could have handled this differently and no one would have died."

How utterly dishonorable of you.

You are posing as upset that others are riled? But look at you. How baldly hypocritical do you want to be?

Calling the commentariat "racist" and accusing me of intending to stir up racists... that's complete and disreputable trash.

So much for the profound respect for the dead.

Ridiculous.

alan markus said...

Details have been sketchy on the robber, but so far what has been released is name (Steven Timothy Snyder) from Michigan. The first murder happened in Wausaukee, 140 miles north of Fon du Lac. Wausaukee is about 5 miles from the Michigan/Wisconsin border (farther by car because of river). Only court record I could find in WI is someone with the same name, born 1977, arrested in 1996 in Fon du Lac for disorderly conduct - with address in Macomb Township, Michigan. North of Detroit, 8 hours from Wausaukee.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

eric said...
ARM and his ilk are responsible for this officer's death because they take racial tension in this country and use it for political advantage.


This is complete BS. In all my comments on this topic I never discuss race because my primary concern is me and mine. The relationship between cops and citizenry is one of the most fundamental in our society and it affects everyone. The pendulum has swung way to far in favor of the cops propensity for violence, unjustified searches and property seizure. You can thank Hollywood, the war on drugs and 'law and order' types for this imbalance.

The ones who first turned crime into a racial issue did so primarily to scare white's into agreeing to an ever greater loss of their rights using black men as the bogey man.

Your complaint is particularly ridiculous because as far as I can tell all the principals are white and there is no racial 'angle'. The suspect, Steven Timothy Snyder, was described by the Sheriff's Office as a white male, over six feet tall, thin build, late 20's or 30's.

SJ said...

@alanMarkus,

thanks for the info.

Macomb Township is on the edge of the suburbs in NE Metro Detroit. (I think it's more rural-exurb than suburb.)

Which would make his connection to small towns in Wisconsin seem a little odd.

He's also older than I would expect for an active criminal, if he was born in '77.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Calling the commentariat "racist" and accusing me of intending to stir up racists.

A good chunk of your commeteriat is racist."

The white liberal chunk certainly.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...


"The ones who first turned crime into a racial issue did so primarily to scare white's into agreeing to an ever greater loss of their rights using black men as the bogey man. "

A practice white middle-class liberals have embraced with a totalitarian fervor.

Michael K said...

"The pendulum has swung way to far in favor of the cops propensity for violence, unjustified searches and property seizure. You can thank Hollywood, the war on drugs and 'law and order' types for this imbalance."

I agree with you on searches and property seizure. The violence thing is mostly made up.

"The ones who first turned crime into a racial issue did so primarily to scare white's into agreeing to an ever greater loss of their rights using black men as the bogey man. "

I agree again. I try to agree when I can. Sometimes your comments can be a trial but I'm sure you are unhappy with some of mine.

Unlike others here, you do make sense a fair amount of time.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
I try to agree when I can.


I appreciate the effort.

Now that Ted Cruz has enrolled in Obamacare I hold hopes that you may one day come to see its positive qualities as well. ;)

Michael K said...

"Now that Ted Cruz has enrolled in Obamacare I hold hopes that you may one day come to see its positive qualities as well. ;)"

That is what the army calls a "Bridge too far."

The left is making a huge flap about him signing up for Obamacare. Had he defied the law, and gotten some sort of private coverage or none, they would be having kittens about that.

I don't think he will be nominated but he has all the right enemies.

I have seriously considered what real reform would look like and did so years ago. Anyone interested can look here.

I think the French system would be a good match for us as that is the largest and most successful health care system in Europe, Now, because the Democrats let lobbyists and 25 year old lawyers write the Obamacare bill, it will take 20 years to do another reform that works.

Drago said...

ARMeltdown: "Now that Ted Cruz has enrolled in Obamacare I hold hopes that you may one day come to see its positive qualities as well. ;)"

...as well."

Purposeful deceit.

Without it, what might you post?

Politicians following the law, even when they oppose it. I guess we've forgotten what that looks like.

Alternate headlines:

Politician pays taxes at the currentl mandated rate even though they oppose the current high rates!

Politician obeys speed limit even though they oppose the current limits.

etc.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Well, he could have paid for health services as he went or his wife could have bought COBRA coverage. But, surprise surprise, these are worse options for him than Obamacare, at least financially, although not morally.

chickelit said...

Freder Frederson said...

Congratulations, you found a twitter feed where a small number of people said some really abhorrent things! What a shock.

Two retorts: First, it's not hard to search the Althouse archives when that story first broke to find apologists for Dorner among the commenters here.

Second, when the Tony Robinson story broke, you and your ilk had no problem with the bullhorn lady saying that the officer "murdered" Robinson. I'm betting that you still don't have a problem with that verb.

Drago said...

AReasonableMan: "Well, he could have paid for health services as he went or his wife could have bought COBRA coverage. But, surprise surprise, these are worse options for him than Obamacare, at least financially, although not morally."

No, those options are not worse for him. He chose the obamacare option so that he would live under the law as others are forced to.

You are assuming the obamacare options were better.

What evidence do you have that is the case?

Not to worry, you have no evidence of that so we don't expect you to provide that which you do not have.

We'll just add this latest talking point to the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" category.

Michael K said...

"his wife could have bought COBRA coverage."

I don't know if she would be eligible as she is taking an "unpaid leave." Maybe she could have negotiated a package but it sounds like she plans to return.

Michael K said...

" I'm betting that you still don't have a problem with that verb."

As I said, you are reasonable compared to others around here.

jr565 said...

So was the perp black? If not then why does it matter?

jr565 said...

Althouse wrote:
You are posing as upset that others are riled? But look at you. How baldly hypocritical do you want to be?

Calling the commentariat "racist" and accusing me of intending to stir up racists... that's complete and disreputable trash.

Word!

MadisonMan said...

I hope the young trooper had good training and I hope he followed it well.

I've read that yesterday was his first solo day on the job.

Completely unfortunate series of events.

chickelit said...

As far racism...nothing I've written depends on race at all. I would have railed against a white woman who grabbed a bullhorn and said that a white Robinson was "murdered" by a cop. Ditto for Dorner had he been white.

The racism evident in all of these crimes is that minority criminals are given a pass and are treated differently by the media and by certain commenters.

Note the lack of outcry in this tragedy. There was no need to craft a gentle giant saga was there? That should be the case for all of these related events.

chickelit said...

That should be the case for all of these related events.

They are related in that each one involves an assault on a police officer in the line of duty.

Freder Frederson said...

I think the French system would be a good match for us as that is the largest and most successful health care system in Europe,

Do you even know how the French (or German, which is very similar) system works!? If you hate Obamacare so much, how can you possibly say that the French system would be a good match for us?

You are a freaking idiot.

Freder Frederson said...

On the side, care to play the game of 'guess the perp'. I'll grant you that Wisconsin's demographics make it slightly more challenge, but I'm going to trust my racist ability to notice patterns and predict that it's the usual suspect. Although I have to admit, shooting a bystander to get out of the vehicle that would obviously be noted from the crime scene shows an unusual amount of forward thinking...

Hey Althouse. As a first example, read this and explain to me how this isn't racist.

Michael K said...

"Do you even know how the French (or German, which is very similar) system works!? "

God ! The stupidity around here is amazing ! Did you read the fucking links ? Of course not.

You are in good company though. Those posts are what got me banned from Washington Monthly. The dopes there were so infuriated that I was not in favor of "Medicare for all," that they started deleting my comments. That was in 2008 when Obama was still a wet eared new Senator.

The German system is quite different from the French but you wouldn't know. Maybe you should regale us with your knowledge of comparative health care systems.

I hope stupidity is not contagious. I think we are safe unless it can travel electronically.

Drago said...

Freder: "Hey Althouse. As a first example, read this and explain to me how this isn't racist"

Why don't you, Freder, take a moment and explain to us how this is not an accurate description of current "journalistic" practices and therefore raises obvious questions when it is manifested in an article or report of an incident?

We'll wait here while you pretend the elephant in the room (MSM routinely failing to identify the race or background of a suspect when it is politically inconvenient to do so) is not there at all and that coffee table simple crumpled of its own accord.

Is it possible that the perpetrator/suspect is not a "person of color"? Of course.

Is it possible that the media has not yet ascertained the background info on the suspect? Of course.

However, it is impossible not to have noticed that when the suspects description is kept out of the story it is "often" the result of editorial design on the part of the reporters.

And always in the same direction.

Rusty said...

I'm going to have to close this thread.
This thread has reached peak irony.
It is irony saturated.
It can absorb no more irony.


The irony drips, like cloying treacle, off the yorkshire pudding of this thread.

SJ said...

@Ann,

I notice that no one took this response to your Rorschach Test statement.

In this case, we will see no protests about a police officer resorting too quickly to the use of deadly force.

Because a Policeman also died.

I am saddened by the news that this officer died during his first week operating without a partner.*

I note, with mild regret, that most of the cases that generate public discussion of Police violence are usually cases that don't involve injured/dead Officers.

That interpretation, separate from any discussion of race, apparently sailed over the head of the rest of the commenters here.

-------------------
*I'm reminded of something my brother, a former Policeman in a large Southern city, told me.

In every scuffle he was in, the presence or absence of a partner had a larger impact than that of any weapon.

After he told me that, I told him that I read something similar in the Bible.

Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their labor:
If either of them falls down, one can help the other up.
...Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves.


--Ecclesiastes 4:9,12

Of all the government costs I'd like to see reduced, I'd be happy to see more Police Departments spend money to have Officers work in pairs.

gerry said...

I note, with mild regret, that most of the cases that generate public discussion of Police violence are usually cases that don't involve injured/dead Officers.

In those cases they were alive because they had time to successfully defend themselves against a mortal threat. At least that's what the investigations in Ferguson revealed...AFTER it was burned down by self-righteous social justice warrior hate mongers, racial racketeers, and the usual MSM camp followers.

Rusty said...

Wasn't somebody saying not too long ago on this blog what an easy job it is being a policeman?

JCCamp said...

@ ARM -

"...attempts to score political points off this man's death is contemptible."

Your previous attempts to do exactly that notwithstanding....

You really are a piece of work.