Althouse: “I, as a New York City police officer, request that Mayor Bill de Blasio and City Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito refrain from attending my funeral services..."

December 13, 2014

“I, as a New York City police officer, request that Mayor Bill de Blasio and City Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito refrain from attending my funeral services..."

"... in the event that I am killed in the line of duty... I believe that their attendance at the funeral of a fallen New York City police officer is an insult to that officer’s memory and sacrifice."

117 comments:

Rusty said...: It must have slipped mayor DeBlasios mind that these are the same people in charge of his personal security.
Ain't nobody takin a bullet fer hishonor now.; 12/13/14, 11:00 AM
Michael The Magnificent said...: Dear lefties,

There is but a thin blue line that separates you and your party of 6 in the Russian Tea Room from the unwashed hoards.

Don't believe me? Keep it up. Please. I dare you.; 12/13/14, 11:02 AM
Humperdink said...: DeBlasio labels this as "incendiary".

Pot, meet kettle. I live seeing commie pinko lefties gagging on their own medicine.; 12/13/14, 11:07 AM
n.n said...: Shouldn't there by a "too many rules" tag? The police are required to enforce the laws passed by politicians. Their discretionary powers limit prevention of incidental harm that are an unpredicted outcome of enforcing the laws. Perhaps the politicians should accompany police officers in the execution of their duties.; 12/13/14, 11:10 AM
traditionalguy said...: At this rate DeBlasio will make it into a South Park episode soon. Isn't he the one who outlawed horse drawn carriage rides to show his empathy for horses having to do work.; 12/13/14, 11:12 AM
CWJ said...: OTOH, if history is any guide, any such service will be over by the time de Blasio shows up. So they've got that going for them.; 12/13/14, 11:17 AM
Humperdink said...: Usually the term "commie pinko lefty" is a pejorative thrown out for effect. In DeBlasio's case it fits.; 12/13/14, 11:19 AM
Michael K said...: I'm just waiting for the remake of "Death Wish." I figure it will take two DeBlasio terms to get there.; 12/13/14, 11:27 AM
The Drill SGT said...: Well the NYC PBA sounds like it may not endorse his Honor next time around...

What goes comes around goes around. The Mayor has been talking $hit about the Police for too long. They've noticed.

Like Frank, In the Line of Fire:

Frank Horrigan: How's the First Lady? She ask about me?
Lilly Raines: Have you gotten to know them yet?
Frank Horrigan: Well, I normally prefer not to get to know the people I'm protecting.
Lilly Raines: Oh, yeah? Why's that?
Frank Horrigan: Well, you never know. You might decide they're not worth taking a bullet for.; 12/13/14, 11:28 AM
harrogate said...: I, a citizen of the United States, request that any police officers who feels entitled to "support" No Matter What They Do, go fuck themselves sideways.; 12/13/14, 11:30 AM
Skeptical Voter said...: “The mayor and the speaker both know better than to think this inappropriate stunt represents the views of the majority of police officers and their families.”

Ah more of the lefty kale flavored granola. We "know better" than you what people want.

I'm surprised Mr. Garner didn't die in a chokehold over holding a 32 plus ounce soft drink cup.

You make stupid rules because you "know better" and stupid things happen. Of course commenter Harrogate at 1130 "knows better".; 12/13/14, 11:38 AM
garage mahal said...: And I'm going to my room! *slams door* #heroes; 12/13/14, 11:43 AM
William said...: I think it's fair to say that the children of the Mayor have more perks and privileges than the kids of some NYC cop. Not all privileges are white privileges. If you don't believe me, ask Ray Lewis.........The Mayor is entitled to instruct his son as he wishes in private, but such instructions should not be part of the public discourse. It was an extremely stupid and prejudicial thing to say.; 12/13/14, 11:43 AM
n.n said...: Garner was a victim of Obama's implicit (e.g. trillion dollar deficits) and explicit (e.g. Obamacare) progressive tax schemes. The structural disparity endemic to high-density population centers only served to exacerbate his policies. Dreams of dissociation of risk and "free stuff" are expensive, and lead to the abortion of millions of human lives annually. Garner was a taxable commodity who was an incidental victim of revenue enforcement.; 12/13/14, 11:43 AM
harrogate said...: It's the PDs acting like they "know better." They are in brook-no-criticism mode. This mode merits no response so much as ridicule . They are not our bosses. They need to do their jobs the right way and if they can't handle it then be careful not to let the door hit their primadonna asses on the way out.; 12/13/14, 11:44 AM
Fernandinande said...: "... in the event that I am killed in the line of duty...

Not much chance of that happening*:

A total of 76 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2013, the FBI reported Monday. Of those, 49 died in accidents** and 27 were killed as a result of felonious acts -- the lowest such figure in more than 50 years of FBI reporting, dating back to at least 1961."

*Non-driving deaths: 780,000 police in the US (Wiki), (27*20)/780000 = 0.007, or a .7% chance of non-driving on-the-job death over 20 years.

**driving a truck or taxi is more dangerous than policing.; 12/13/14, 11:44 AM
bgates said...: They are in brook-no-criticism mode. This mode merits no response so much as ridicule . They are not our bosses. They need to do their jobs the right way and if they can't handle it then be careful not to let the door hit their primadonna asses on the way out.

Obama explodes on press corps with ‘profanity-laced’ tirade; 12/13/14, 11:50 AM
harrogate said...: It's all about Obama! Hahahaha; 12/13/14, 11:53 AM
SGT Ted said...: Hey, what are you lib-leftists bitching about? The support of the policies of pro-tobacco taxes and election support of the Democrats controlling NYC demonstrates your preferred type of governance.; 12/13/14, 11:54 AM
SGT Ted said...: Wow first time I've seen some on this board criticize a public employee union. Must be a Democrat pol being attacked.; 12/13/14, 11:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey Fernandinande - mext time you need help in the face of a physical assault or robbery or even a knife or gun wielding citizen, call a cabbie or a truck driver then, OK?; 12/13/14, 12:01 PM
Bob Boyd said...: What De Blasio really told his son was,
"Son, be careful around cops because if you ever embarrass me, like by getting arrested for example, I am going to teach you a little game I call LAPD vs. Rodney King and you get to play Rodney King. Do I make myself clear?"; 12/13/14, 12:03 PM
harrogate said...: They kill someone openly. And get away with it. And they are the ones who are "outraged" because , apparently, their asses aren't being kissed enough.

Ridiculousness 101.; 12/13/14, 12:10 PM
Michael K said...: "I, a citizen of the United States, request that any police officers who feels entitled to "support" No Matter What They Do, go fuck themselves sideways."

harrogate, I suggest you say this to the next cop you meet. Let us know how it turns out.

Keyboard commandoes.; 12/13/14, 12:13 PM
harrogate said...: Actually Michael K., himself a true keyboard commando, is totally right. If I told that cop to fuck himself sideways for the reasons I have outlined above, he would no doubt kill me for it, and get away with it too.
Because thin blue line.

Michael K. , that's a great point . Thanks for making it. Really!; 12/13/14, 12:17 PM
Rusty said...: harrogate said...
Actually Michael K., himself a true keyboard commando, is totally right. If I told that cop to fuck himself sideways for the reasons I have outlined above, he would no doubt kill me for it, and get away with it too.
Because thin blue line.

What a timid little man you are.
You've never to a cop to fuck off?
I have. I'm still here. Just make sure you preface your criticisms with ,"sir" and "officer".

Still. You probably won't ever get to go to an officers funeral anyway. Good for them. Good for you.; 12/13/14, 12:32 PM
harrogate said...: "What a timid little man you are.
You've never to a cop to fuck off?
I have. I'm still here. Just make sure you preface your criticisms with ,'sir' and 'officer.'"

Ok, that's not bad. It doesn't engage my point at all, but it's definitely funny. Well played.

"Still. You probably won't ever get to go to an officers funeral anyway. Good for them. Good for you."

"Get to"? It's a fucking *privilege* to attend a police officer's funeral now? Question: Does it matter at all, which officer's funeral we are talking about? Or would a funeral for any one of them belong in the "get to" category. Jesus Christ on a Crumbheap.

Here's the thing. You and many others seem to be confusing scrutiny of police behavior, and calls that individual officers be accountable for their actions, with a general hatred of police officers. In truth, that conflation itself is highly disrespectful to police officers. Think about it, please.; 12/13/14, 12:43 PM
Fernandinande said...: realwest said...
Hey Fernandinande - mext time you need help in the face of a physical assault or robbery or even a knife or gun wielding citizen, call a cabbie or a truck driver then, OK?

Already done, realwest! I'll never again call the cops for anything. No problem at all.

One reason: when/if I'm "in the face of a physical assault", etc, cops can't do anything because they're on donut break. One other reason: cops are dishonest, violent, paranoid, egotistical, kinda stupid and generally just rather sleazy; not the type of people I associate with, regardless of circumstances.

PS: why don't you like facts? Do you want people to mistakenly believe that cops have a dangerous job when they don't? Why?

It couldn't be that you're one of the sleazebags, could it?; 12/13/14, 12:47 PM
chickelit said...: I think people (leaders included) should honor and obey the wishes of people expressed in wills and testaments. So, it would be a terrible thing for de Blasio to ignore this officer.; 12/13/14, 1:09 PM
chickelit said...: traditionalguy said...
At this rate DeBlasio will make it into a South Park episode soon. Isn't he the one who outlawed horse drawn carriage rides to show his empathy for horses having to do work.

I heard a much more mundane version of events which included sweetheart land deals for cronies.; 12/13/14, 1:11 PM
chickelit said...: harrogate said...
I, a citizen of the United States, request that any police officers who feels entitled to "support" No Matter What They Do, go fuck themselves sideways.

Here's to hoping to read one day of your misfortune or demise at the hands of one of your beloved thugs as the cops look on.; 12/13/14, 1:12 PM
Achilles said...: Michael K said...
"I, a citizen of the United States, request that any police officers who feels entitled to "support" No Matter What They Do, go fuck themselves sideways."

"harrogate, I suggest you say this to the next cop you meet. Let us know how it turns out.

Keyboard commandoes"

This is fucked up and wrong. There needs to be a level of respect given to those who put themselves in harms way. But they also have responsibility to act appropriately.

And this response is tacitly endorsing state oppression of opposing viewpoints. Too many people on both the left and the right are all for abusing state power when they wield it. It is almost like they don't understand the history of the founding of this country.

I will point out that harrogate is probably all for the IRS harassment of the tea party and the myriad other of Obama's abuses of state power so yes he is included.; 12/13/14, 1:16 PM
Michael K said...: harrogate, keyboard commando said:

"Here's the thing. You and many others seem to be confusing scrutiny of police behavior, and calls that individual officers be accountable for their actions, with a general hatred of police officers."

No, we recognize your hatred for police officers for what it is.

I dealt with cops for many years running a trauma center and being involved with court cases.

I once testified in a civil trail where a patient of mine, a black man who had never been arrested and who was working at a job that his boss kept for him for a year after the police shot him in a mistaken identity case. He was partially paralyzed and I took care of him for years after I finished my residency. He got nothing from his suit and a few years later Rodney King, a fleeing felon, got millions for minor injuries inflicted by LAPD officers who saved his life.

I just can tell the difference. You are a phony lefty who makes empty threats online.; 12/13/14, 1:17 PM
SteveR said...: garage is using hashtags. Wow what's next? Working a real job in the private sector?; 12/13/14, 1:17 PM
Achilles said...: realwest said...
"Hey Fernandinande - mext time you need help in the face of a physical assault or robbery or even a knife or gun wielding citizen, call a cabbie or a truck driver then, OK"

Not speaking for Ferdinande, but for me I plan on dealing with the assailant myself. The police wont get there in time to save said assailant.

It is the responsibility of every able citizen to be able to protect themselves and others. We hire police to clean up afterwards and take notes. They should be peace officers anyways, not law enforcers.

So much approbation on here from the right for police oppression today. If they send the police out to arrest you for not paying your obamacare taxes/IRS summons will you appreciate them then? Maybe they should throw in a couple baton wacks. It is ok you are covered!; 12/13/14, 1:24 PM
richard mcenroe said...: Hugo de Blasio, still missing that consent of the governed thing.

Of course, given how few showed up at the last election, maybe NYC IS ready for the Sandinista model...; 12/13/14, 1:24 PM
richard mcenroe said...: Dear Hugo, next time you need help, call a community organizer...; 12/13/14, 1:25 PM
richard mcenroe said...: Achilles... and God help you if your assailant ain't white, 'cuz Hugo will be the first one to call for your lynching.; 12/13/14, 1:26 PM
Achilles said...: Everyone on here is making this a right left thing. You are all so trained to hate each other you are not noticing what is going on. Have you people not noticed that no matter who we elect the government gets bigger and more powerful?

The only change after an election is who gets harassed more by the government. You people are all nuts.; 12/13/14, 1:28 PM
virgil xenophon said...: When I lived in Louisville the Mayor Harvy Sloan and I were neighbors in "Old Louisville." We had central block alleyways and his home on S 4th facing Central Park, backed up to ours on S. Third (off-set by two homes) There was no off-street parking as his former garage was now a nicely appointed "carriage house." so he parked on the side street. (Magnolia, iirc) Well, old Harv got side-ways with the Police Union during contract negotiations and they came by and shot out all the windows in his car, lol There's a lesson in there somewhere for DeBlasio..; 12/13/14, 1:28 PM
Achilles said...: richard mcenroe said...
"Achilles... and God help you if your assailant ain't white, 'cuz Hugo will be the first one to call for your lynching."

Judged by 12 or carried by 6. That's the point of our justice system and our right of self defense.

But apparently those on both the right and left here disdain due process. The left wants the police lynched. The right wants the police to lynch tax dodgers selling cigarettes.

We are so failing in civics classes.; 12/13/14, 1:32 PM
Achilles said...: richard mcenroe said...
"Achilles... and God help you if your assailant ain't white, 'cuz Hugo will be the first one to call for your lynching."

Apologies for missing the reference to Deblasio. I live in the sticks on the other side of the country so I don't know his nicknames.

I am all for reducing government power in general. I don't endorse him in any way and think he is awful. But just because a republican is elected instead doesn't make me want the police to be arresting people for selling cig's. The mob would at least be honest about their tactics. The police in this case were just pathetically negligent.; 12/13/14, 1:38 PM
David said...: “The mayor and the speaker both know better than to think this inappropriate stunt represents the views of the majority of police officers and their families.”

How do they know this?

Anyway, it's not a majority rule issue. If a significant minority feel this way, the mayor and speaker have a big problem." They think that the views of minorities should be respected, right?; 12/13/14, 1:40 PM
Alex said...: Ah more of the lefty kale flavored granola. We "know better" than you what people want.

What do you have against kale and granola? Those are healthy foods that you could use to lower your cholesterol. Stop eating so much meat.; 12/13/14, 1:58 PM
Achilles said...: Alex said...
Ah more of the lefty kale flavored granola. We "know better" than you what people want.

"What do you have against kale and granola? Those are healthy foods that you could use to lower your cholesterol. Stop eating so much meat."

We should have the government tax the crap out of meat so people stop eating it. It will make them healthier.

When people start growing their own cows and important black market meat to avoid the taxes we should send the police in to arrest them.

After a few thousand arrests it is statistically unavoidable that deaths will happen. The people were stupid to resist.

If a policeman is killed making a violent arrest then they don't want the people that passed the laws they have to enforce to go to their funeral.

The state is the answer. They know better about everything.; 12/13/14, 2:09 PM
n.n said...: Achilles:

The relevant issue is that the government has a compelling interest to enforce laws requested by voters. If people want security, then they will necessarily lose their liberty. If people want Obamacare, then they will necessarily lose their economic freedom. The loss is progressive and proportionate to the demanded entitlement and local productivity. A high-density population center, especially a diverse one, amplifies the need for redistributive and regulatory policies.

The prerequisite for liberty is men and women capable of self-moderating, responsible (i.e. moral) behavior.; 12/13/14, 2:11 PM
Alex said...: Yes I think the state should have a vegetable inspector that goes into every house to see how many vegetables you have in your fridge. If you fall below the quota, you will get assessed a penalty.; 12/13/14, 2:12 PM
Achilles said...: Alex said...
"Yes I think the state should have a vegetable inspector that goes into every house to see how many vegetables you have in your fridge. If you fall below the quota, you will get assessed a penalty."

While they are at it they can check your insurance.; 12/13/14, 2:13 PM
Michael said...: Lefty nuance meters are in the off position. See, the Mayor could have castigated this team of officers instead of every policeman everywhere. He could have cautioned his kid in private.

It is heart warming to see that the lefties find one piece of our government' vast apparatus they do not like. Well, they actually don't like the military either. Odd that.; 12/13/14, 2:18 PM
Michael K said...: "Everyone on here is making this a right left thing. You are all so trained to hate each other you are not noticing what is going on. Have you people not noticed that no matter who we elect the government gets bigger and more powerful? "

Achilles, I think you are making a mistake of confusing libertarians with "right wing " Republicans.

The people who are building the gargantuan government are The Ruling Class which has members of both parties. However, the Democrats have largely lost their libertarian members.

The Silicone Valley and Wall Street billionaires who are funding the Democrats are either crony capitalists or, in some cases, are consumed with social issues like abortion and gay rights.

Personally, I am pro-choice and have been since I was a medical student and saw women die from illegal abortions. I am indifferent to gay marriage although I am angry that gay "activists" are attacking religious people who object to participating. I fully expect attacks on churches to be next.

I have been involved in rather ugly arguments with religious people, even on this blog, about evolution. I quit Ricochet over that matter.

You need to understand that you are missing a big difference here. It's not just left and right. Libertarians have no place else to go. That's why political parties have traditionally been alliances of different groups which don't share all goals.

The Democrats have gone so far left that they have excluded a lot of previous allies, like white men and blue collar workers.; 12/13/14, 2:21 PM
Achilles said...: n.n said...
Achilles:

"The relevant issue is that the government has a compelling interest to enforce laws requested by voters."

I take issue with this. We were not founded as a Democracy. We were founded as a Representative Republic. If 75% of the population votes to take 25% of the populations private property sure the government has a compelling interest because it gets to keep some off the top but that isn't how it is supposed to work. If most people don't like cigarettes but some do does the majority get to run around and tell the minority how to live? In New York yes. But if you accede to this structure you will end up with the police killing people at some point. It is statistically unavoidable.

The founders despised democracy and the tyranny of the majority. That is why there are supposed to be strict limits on the power of the government. I totally agree that there is a requirement of personal virtue. But just because some of my fellow citizens are incapable of freedom doesn't mean I should lose mine.; 12/13/14, 2:23 PM
Anonymous said...: "A total of 76 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2013, the FBI reported Monday. Of those, 49 died in accidents** and 27 were killed as a result of felonious acts -- the lowest such figure in more than 50 years of FBI reporting, dating back to at least 1961."

***

Yet when a policeman dies in the line of duty, and thousand cops from neighboring states and across the country will show up for a three-day funeral.

Funny, innit, how crime takes a holiday while the cops do as well.

Oh wait....

(And: do our soldiers take similar junkets when one of their own is killed?); 12/13/14, 2:30 PM
Achilles said...: Michael K said...

"You need to understand that you are missing a big difference here. It's not just left and right. Libertarians have no place else to go. That's why political parties have traditionally been alliances of different groups which don't share all goals."

My point is libertarians nor the rest of us shouldn't be supporting the police in the Garner death. Just because the police are angry with a democrat doesn't make them right. They were negligent and indifferent to the death of a citizen. Not all of them, just some of them, and they should be held responsible.

And this is a natural chance to make inroads into demographic groups that have been voting in block for democrats. But the party of stupid misses that. I can totally see myself in Eric Garners situation though I wouldn't asphyxiate when laid on my stomach. When the population doesn't pay it's obamacare taxes we will all be in Garner's shoes.; 12/13/14, 2:31 PM
Achilles said...: jelink said...

"(And: do our soldiers take similar junkets when one of their own is killed?)"

Not really unless it was a general officer then the other general officers may do something.

We have to stand in formation and it is a local deal, usually within the unit. If it is overseas due to combat action we stand in a memorial formation and listen to their leadership and team mates give a eulogy and it usually lasts an hour. If it was suicide or a car accident at home something similar but it will be followed by briefings and death by power point presentation on how to avoid your fellow soldiers fate or prevent suicide.

The army is not a union shop.; 12/13/14, 2:36 PM
Michael K said...: "My point is libertarians nor the rest of us shouldn't be supporting the police in the Garner death. Just because the police are angry with a democrat doesn't make them right. "

The NYC police are responding to comments by the Mayor that are inflammatory and only peripherally related to the death of Garner which I agree was excessive.

The alleged "lecture" by the Mayor to his mixed race son is especially inflammatory and is about the issue of black men and the police.

It is a fact that black males commit crime far out of proportion to their share of the population. This is used by the political left to allege unfair treatment and they seem to want equal results instead of opportunity.

Here is an example. Al Sharpton should be in prison for tax evasion.

The Ferguson rioters are mostly non-residents and are supported by white anarchist groups. The looting and violence do the blacks no good but they seem to be passive while their lives are in pawn to political radicals who care nothing about them.; 12/13/14, 2:52 PM
JackWayne said...: Achilles, please spend some time reading the Federalist Papers. You will NOT find any provision for a limited government. What you WILL find is 3 statists promising you Unlimited Government.; 12/13/14, 2:54 PM
Scott said...: Pat Lynch is a horse's ass. So is Bill De Blasio. Seeing the two of them in a pissing match... I mean, who the fuck really cares?; 12/13/14, 3:05 PM
Drago said...: garage: "garage mahal said...
And I'm going to my room! *slams door* #heroes"

For those keeping track:

Garage "not heroes": police and US military/CIA personnel (except for Valerie Plame)

garage heroes: Hamas.; 12/13/14, 3:15 PM
JJ Balzer said...: I, James Balzer, as a New York City resident, request that PBA boss Patrick Lynch refrain from encouraging cops to tell Mayor Bill de Blasio and City Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito whether or not they are permitted to attend funeral services in the event that they are killed in the line of duty. Due to PBA boss Patrick Lynch’s consistent refusal to understand that the mayor and speaker represent all of the citizens of New York City whenever they visit hospitalized officers or. in the worst case scenario, attend their funerals, Lynch's position on these officials' attendance at the funeral of a fallen New York City police officer is an insult to this city's citizens, who wholeheartedly understand and honor the memory and sacrifice of police officers who die in the line of duty.; 12/13/14, 3:36 PM
Drago said...: Jack Wayne said...
Achilles, please spend some time reading the Federalist Papers

Are you kidding me?

Aren't those things like, over a 100 years old? Who could possibly understand them?

Why, I'd have to be a Vox News editor to be able to make sense out of all that "old stuff".; 12/13/14, 3:39 PM
Christopher said...: This is the local equivalent of when the president loses the intelligence agencies.

Be prepared for lots of news reports based upon "anonymous" leaks.; 12/13/14, 4:02 PM
garage mahal said...: These cops and their unions can really go to fucking hell.; 12/13/14, 5:24 PM
jr565 said...: How big of an a hole do you have to be for cops to not want you at their funeral as mayor?; 12/13/14, 5:27 PM
JAORE said...: "“Incendiary rhetoric like this serves only to divide the city, and New Yorkers reject these tactics." - Mayor and Council Speaker in joint statement.

Huh? Incendiary and divisive? Who would have guessed? Well, I suppose those guys have lots of experience in those types of statements.; 12/13/14, 5:28 PM
jr565 said...: libertarians and liberals are the same brand of c*nt when it comes to cops. Go f yourselves. And don't call one if you get mugged, robbed, or raped.; 12/13/14, 5:35 PM
Michael K said...: "These cops and their unions can really go to fucking hell."

Why because the police unions vote Republican ?

When somebody is breaking in, call Al Sharpton.; 12/13/14, 5:43 PM
jr565 said...: "My point is libertarians nor the rest of us shouldn't be supporting the police in the Garner death. Just because the police are angry with a democrat doesn't make them right. They were negligent and indifferent to the death of a citizen. Not all of them, just some of them, and they should be held responsible.

And this is a natural chance to make inroads into demographic groups that have been voting in block for democrats"
It sounds like, just like the democrats the libertarians now want to use this death to push their libertarian policies. Never let a crisis go to waste. Same as the liberals.; 12/13/14, 5:47 PM
jr565 said...: Achilles wrote:
My point is libertarians nor the rest of us shouldn't be supporting the police in the Garner death. Just because the police are angry with a democrat doesn't make them right. They were negligent and indifferent to the death of a citizen. Not all of them, just some of them, and they should be held responsible.

Just because he died doesn't mean that they were negligent. ANd the grand jury could have held them responsible, but didn't. Maybe that's because it found they weren't negligent. So you had your crack at bat and lost.; 12/13/14, 5:56 PM
garage mahal said...: NYPD cops, cop unions, Al Sharpton, tyrannical mayors like Ghouliani and Bloomberg? Fuck all these people. Especially Sharpton. The next generation is going to clear out all the dead wood.; 12/13/14, 5:58 PM
Scott said...: The Government Killed Eric Garner for Threatening One of Its Revenue Streams.

(Above link for people who want to read the libertarian point of view from a libertarian.); 12/13/14, 5:58 PM
Alex said...: garage's point is that the Republicans say "unions can go to hell" so he'll take the Republican stance in a cynical way to make a point. Of course he really means that the MORAL thing is to unconditionally support unions.; 12/13/14, 5:59 PM
Phil 314 said...: Interesting constituency politics at play:
-race (black) vs public union (police)

a bigger dilemma for the Dems since each is an important constituency.

For Republicans it the lessen Scott Walker learned and John Kasich learned...
the hard way.; 12/13/14, 6:03 PM
Scott said...: "libertarians and liberals are the same brand of c*nt when it comes to cops. Go f yourselves. And don't call one if you get mugged, robbed, or raped. "

No problems. The libertarians are packing heat. And the liberals use their superior reasoning and discernment to talk sense into the criminals.; 12/13/14, 6:08 PM
jr565 said...: "The Government Killed Eric Garner for Threatening One of Its Revenue Streams."

And this is why conservatives shouldn't truck with libertarians. Just as reactionary as the liberals. Just over different things.; 12/13/14, 6:15 PM
jr565 said...: Scott wrote:
No problems. The libertarians are packing heat.

Libertarians may be packing heat, but they aren't allowed to take the law into their hands.; 12/13/14, 6:17 PM
Scott said...: Read past the headline.; 12/13/14, 6:17 PM
Scott said...: When seconds count, the police will be there in just minutes.; 12/13/14, 6:19 PM
jr565 said...: "In fact, smuggling used to be an honorable American profession. In colonial times and into the early national period, the entrepreneurial smuggler who served consumers by defying the customs agents was celebrated. It was the government agent who risked being tarred and feathered, then rode out of town on a rail. Had Eric Garner been set upon by Red Coats on colonial New England streets, many people might have come to his defense. "
So, the cops are the redcoats and the libertarians support the gun/drug smugglers. No wonder you don't like cops. They're the guys busting up your crime rings.; 12/13/14, 6:20 PM
jr565 said...: "The city’s accomplices in this highway robbery of smokers are the licensed retailers. The police provide the protection racket that shields the retailers’ cigarette business from free competition."

SO now the libertarians hold that the "licensed retailers" are the bad guys.; 12/13/14, 6:23 PM
jr565 said...: Libertarians are pirates and anarchists. Nothing more nothing less. Better a statist than someone justifying smuggling.; 12/13/14, 6:25 PM
Scott said...: Hey, the war on drugs keeps you employed on the taxpayer's dime, no doubt. And not much that's socially beneficial.; 12/13/14, 6:26 PM
Scott said...: Find it frustrating? Go shoot a poodle. You'll never get indicted if you're small enough to hide behind a shield.; 12/13/14, 6:27 PM
jr565 said...: "The city’s accomplices in this highway robbery of smokers are the licensed retailers. The police provide the protection racket that shields the retailers’ cigarette business from free competition."

If the cost of doing business is a license and you don't have one and you are doing business it's not free competition. YOu are a free loader.; 12/13/14, 6:27 PM
jr565 said...: " If fewer people are harassed on the street, fewer people will become fed up and resist—if we must stretch the word resist to describe what Eric Garner did that fateful day.

If fewer people sell things illegally, fewer people will be harassed on the street. All those evil licensed vendors were able to abide by the law and sold cigarettes. What made Garner so special?; 12/13/14, 6:35 PM
jr565 said...: (cont.) And do you notice how the licensed vendors are not the people being harassed by the cops. I have little sympathy for the argument "We used to like smugglers!" offered by Reason. Not if its your goods being smuggled. Robin Hood was still a thief at the end of the day and despite his good intentions.; 12/13/14, 6:40 PM
jr565 said...: Scott wrote:
Hey, the war on drugs keeps you employed on the taxpayer's dime, no doubt. And not much that's socially beneficial.

Cigarettes are a legal product. Vendors sell said products legally. So how is it this a war on drugs?
NO what you have is a war on laws. You're pirates.; 12/13/14, 6:42 PM
jr565 said...: If you have a legal product it's a regulated product. What don't libertarians get. When they legalize pot only certain stores can sell it. It's regulated. If it's regulated the govt is involved, and laws are passed around it. SO, in the case of cigarettes there are legal ways you can sell them and then there are illegal ways you can sell them. Thousands of merchants set up shop every day and go through the legal process to sell said merchandise. SO that gives illegal merchants no excuse in thinking they have a right to sell it when they aren't abiding by the same rules as the legal merchants. And it takes some gall to call the cops the bad guys for enforcing the law that they're breaking.
You want to sell cigarettes, do it legally. If you think you are above the law, you're not.; 12/13/14, 6:48 PM
chickelit said...: garage mahal said...
NYPD cops, cop unions, Al Sharpton, tyrannical mayors like Ghouliani and Bloomberg? Fuck all these people. Especially Sharpton. The next generation is going to clear out all the dead wood.

What? No short shrift for de Blasio? What is it about him that warms the heart of your cockles?; 12/13/14, 6:52 PM
richard mcenroe said...: "The next generation is going to clear out all the dead wood."

*thinks back on the 60's and 70's.*

The last generation is the dead wood, dumbass. As I recall they had much the same slogan.; 12/13/14, 6:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Wait, DeBlasio counseled his son about cops? Didn't a conservative journalist (Derbyshire?) lose his job over counseling his children about race matters?

For a glimmer of what DeBlasio is like, a mayor who can't do anything right, check out the 1974 Walter Matthau version of, The Taking of Pelham One Two Three. Great scene, in the first act, of a mayor being feckless.; 12/13/14, 6:54 PM
Known Unknown said...: Achilles, please spend some time reading the Federalist Papers. You will NOT find any provision for a limited government. What you WILL find is 3 statists promising you Unlimited Government.

Yes, but those were the Federalists. There were other guys, the guys who opposed the Federalists, you know. Guys like Patrick Henry, James Monroe Samuel Adams, and to a point, Thomas Jefferson.; 12/13/14, 7:20 PM
Michael K said...: "Didn't a conservative journalist (Derbyshire?) lose his job over counseling his children about race matters? "

Last time I checked, Derbyshire wasn't Mayor.

Too bad, actually.; 12/13/14, 7:26 PM
n.n said...: Garner was not murdered. His unwarranted effort to evade arrest triggered his death. At best his death was accidental. At worst he needlessly escalated the confrontation that lead to his death.; 12/13/14, 7:37 PM
n.n said...: jr565:

It would be an interesting case to bring to trial. The supervising officer was a black female. I don't think that would complement the narrative they are building.

All lives matter because... Well, because they have intrinsic value that is arbitrarily assigned following conception and often much later. I think there is a principle here that mainstream politics and popular culture have been negligent to consider and, in fact, have willfully corrupted on an unprecedented scale.; 12/13/14, 7:44 PM
n.n said...: Christopher:

That's a good point about intelligence agencies. Following Obama's betrayal of Americans in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere, there must have been a real desire to respond. This internal threat is probably what prompted Feinstein to publish the report at this time. Suddenly, she is no longer pro-choice, but her selective reform has a cause.; 12/13/14, 7:49 PM
jr565 said...: n.n. Actually the libertarians described it perfectly:

"This won’t guarantee there will be no more Eric Garners, because police have long harassed, beaten, and killed people using low-tech weapons and without the cover of victimless-crime laws. But it would help. If fewer people are harassed on the street, fewer people will become fed up and resistif we must stretch the word resist to describe what Eric Garner did that fateful day."

So, yeah, Garner resisted. He thought he was above the law, and had the libertarian view that the cops were just oppressors and he didn't want to follow basic laws. So, if we want to act like jerks, we can say that libertarianism killed Garner.; 12/13/14, 7:53 PM
Scott said...: The NYPD cop could have kept Eric Garner from dying by not choking him to death.

What's the worst possible thing that could have happened? Him running away? The guy was fat and not in good shape.

I think ordinary normal people without badges are questioning the premise that a legitimate penalty for questioning a cop's authori-TAH is summary execution. And it's about time.; 12/13/14, 8:02 PM
jr565 said...: Scott wrote:
I think ordinary normal people without badges are questioning the premise that a legitimate penalty for questioning a cop's authori-TAH is summary execution. And it's about time.

Do you really think cops intended for him to die when they pulled him to the ground? And so how did a pull down become a choke to death. And how did it suddenly become cops summarily executing someone for questioning a cops authority.
You keep saying those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.; 12/13/14, 8:37 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: Apparently Harrogate is Tony Weiner with a keyboard. But instead of flaunting "Little Tony" to some ignorant young lady in Nevada, he flaunts his ignorance. Keyboard commando indeed.; 12/13/14, 8:38 PM
Alex said...: I think ordinary normal people without badges are questioning the premise that a legitimate penalty for questioning a cop's authori-TAH is summary execution. And it's about time.

Scott - you just jumped the shark into Alex Jones territory right there. I hope you enjoy being on the far far far far far right wing whacko fringe.; 12/13/14, 8:39 PM
jr565 said...: So, Scott I question the entire premise of your assesrtion. No, cops do not have the right to summarily execute people for merely questioning their authori-TAH. But no one has ever suggested otherwise. They do however, have the right to arrest people who resist their authori-TAH when enforcing laws (or when responding to complaints and finding someone in violation of laws who then decides to fight them).
So someone dying when they resist arrest is different than someone dying when cops summarily execute them. Did you ever see a boxing match where someone gets hit in the head and then dies? Was that a summary execution, or does sh*t sometimes happen?; 12/13/14, 8:47 PM
Alex said...: Scott showed his true colors already. He's not worth talking to.; 12/13/14, 8:48 PM
jr565 said...: Scott wrote:
What's the worst possible thing that could have happened? Him running away? The guy was fat and not in good shape.

SO cops should not arrest people on the grounds that they might get hurt when getting arrested, or are fat? What if he ran away and had a heart attack because he was so out of shape. Then you'd argue that cops forced him to run driving him to his death. No man should have to suffer a heart attack because he has to run from cops who enforce bullshit laws. (I'm writing your copy for you).
How many people should we give these legal get out of arrest cards to? We got overweight people. Apparently blacks want it for them. And I suppose women want it too. (For example: Only men should go to prison: http://counterfem.blogspot.com/2012/06/only-men-should-go-to-prison.html)
Now the libertarians think they should be able to ignore laws they don't like and cops should just walk away even though cops are called to the scene because of a complaint, and even though the guy in question was out on bail and had three open court cases. One involving selling illegal cigarettes. Also one involving driving without a license.
That too is a non violent crime. I suppose we should have cops not enforce that law either. Lets just have everyone drive around without a license and the cops can't do anything about it, since that is simply "the sovereign's decrees not being respected". No, its driving without a license. If you can't get one, then you have no business driving.; 12/13/14, 8:57 PM
wildswan said...: [There will be] a vegetable inspector that goes into every house to see how many vegetables you have in your fridge."

No, my friend, vegetable inspector is so retro. There will be a Big Data program that consolidates your loyalty cards/ ATM cards and your travels as tracked by your cell phone to see if you have brought vegetables and then a health app to track your blood sugar to see if you have eaten them. A program mostly just authorized by Cromnibus. And will the next Cromnibus will authorize drones to come in and take away your Mars bar stash? or to take away you?

Check out the DHS Big Data program webpage.; 12/13/14, 9:49 PM
Æthelflæd said...: harrogate said...

"Here's the thing. You and many others seem to be confusing scrutiny of police behavior, and calls that individual officers be accountable for their actions, with a general hatred of police officers. In truth, that conflation itself is highly disrespectful to police officers. Think about it, please."

Well isn't that an adorable little gem of irony coming from a lefty.; 12/13/14, 9:50 PM
jr565 said...: Harrigate wrote:
"Here's the thing. You and many others seem to be confusing scrutiny of police behavior, and calls that individual officers be accountable for their actions, with a general hatred of police officers."

It seems like what you're doing is the exact opposite. Taking the actions of individual police officers and then applying it to a racial template that suggests that any killing of a black person by a white cop is example of inherent biases or a pattern of abuse/racism.; 12/13/14, 9:59 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: Look, I'm skeptical of this whole thing, purely on the grounds that Pantaleon's "chokehold" lasted a second or two, whereas Garner was on the sidewalk, not in a chokehold, saying "I can't breathe" eleven times, for a minute or more.

Ought the police to have paid attention? Obviously. Should they have realized that the massive supine man in front of them was asthmatic, and gotten him medical aid ASAP? Yes, of course. Were they deliberately trying to kill him? I doubt it very much. Were they deliberately trying to kill him because he was Black? No, they weren't, at least not unless the supervising (Black, female) officer took medals in self-hatred.

Yeesh, people.

As to whether selling "loosies" ought to get you killed, obviously there's at least one person on this thread who does think so. I wonder whether there's any law whatsoever of which s/he doesn't think the same.; 12/13/14, 10:01 PM
jr565 said...: Michelle Dulak wrote:

As to whether selling "loosies" ought to get you killed, obviously there's at least one person on this thread who does think so. I wonder whether there's any law whatsoever of which s/he doesn't think the same.

was that directed at me? You just got through saying you don't think cops intended to kill him but then you're suggesting that I, or someone on the board is suggesting that you should die for selling loosies? Aren't you confusing cause and effect? If you admit that the death was accidental then you can't say people are suggesting sellin loosies ought to get you killed.; 12/13/14, 10:11 PM
Æthelflæd said...: I think the Garner case would get a lot more traction and sympathy with your Average Joe if the Sharpton/Holder wrecking crew hadn't turned it into a racism issue. I think the cops should probably at least have had to stand trial for involuntary manslaughter. Making it a case of deliberate racist murder makes them sound like the boy crying wolf, especially after the Michael Brown case.; 12/13/14, 10:20 PM
SteveR said...: I think the Garner case would get a lot more traction and sympathy with your Average Joe if the Sharpton/Holder wrecking crew hadn't turned it into a racism issue.

After they went all-in with Michael Brown, they simply had no credibility with folks not already in with them. The MSM tried to push it but its a completely different set of issues and instead all we hear is "Wolf" "Wolf".

I pay more attention than most Americans by far but I don't live in an NYC bubble and Garner is lost in the fog.; 12/13/14, 11:06 PM
Michael The Magnificent said...: The NYPD cop could have kept Eric Garner from dying by not choking him to death.

He didn't die of asphyxiation. He died of a heart attack, in the ambulance.

If you have to lie to make your point, you don't have a valid point to make.; 12/14/14, 12:32 AM
Achilles said...: jr565 said...
Scott wrote:
I think ordinary normal people without badges are questioning the premise that a legitimate penalty for questioning a cop's authori-TAH is summary execution. And it's about time.

"Do you really think cops intended for him to die when they pulled him to the ground? And so how did a pull down become a choke to death. And how did it suddenly become cops summarily executing someone for questioning a cops authority.

You keep saying those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean."

Watch the tape.

They tackled Garner. Garner said he couldn't breath. He stopped breathing. He stopped responding. The police stuck their thumbs up their butts. He died. That is negligence at best. Indifference at worst.

A citizen would get negligent homicide or manslaughter.; 12/14/14, 1:33 AM
Achilles said...: jr565 said...

"If you admit that the death was accidental then you can't say people are suggesting sellin loosies ought to get you killed."

"Libertarians are pirates and anarchists. Nothing more nothing less. Better a statist than someone justifying smuggling."

"So, yeah, Garner resisted. He thought he was above the law, and had the libertarian view that the cops were just oppressors and he didn't want to follow basic laws. So, if we want to act like jerks, we can say that libertarianism killed Garner."

You are obviously approving of the killing of people who break the law and/or disagree with you. Statists are all the same on the inside, they just disagree on who the state should oppress.; 12/14/14, 1:41 AM
Achilles said...: Jack Wayne said...
"Achilles, please spend some time reading the Federalist Papers. You will NOT find any provision for a limited government. What you WILL find is 3 statists promising you Unlimited Government."

Was this around the time the federal government accounted for less than 3% of the nations GDP? Context is a crazy thing.

I would also posit that they were one faction of people helping write the constitution. And they really didn't win much.; 12/14/14, 1:45 AM
Anonymous said...: They tackled Garner. Garner said he couldn't breath. He stopped breathing. He stopped responding. The police stuck their thumbs up their butts. He died. That is negligence at best. Indifference at worst.

What evidence do you have that he stopped breathing?

There is a six minute tape in which two cops are by his side the entire time. Holding him on his side so he can breath. Approximately 3 or 4 minutes in, the ambulance arrives and the girl paramedic takes his pulse (Both on his neck and his wrist). There are several people standing around and no one is shouting, "He can't breath! Help him! He can't breath! He's dying!" or anything even remotely like that. At one point it appears one of the officers asks him a question and he gives a mumbled answer, just before the ambulance arrives.

At around the 6 minute mark, just after they put him up on the stretcher, someone near the woman taking the video says, "Why don't you perform CPR?" or something along those lines, I forget exactly how he words it. And a police officer standing right there says, "Because he's breathing." and the people taking the video say, "He's breathing?" and the officer says, "Yeah."

Where is your evidence he wasn't breathing?

Because it seems to me the evidence says he was breathing. Even when he says several times, "I can't breath! I can't breath!" that's evidence he is breathing. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to say that.

So again, I ask you, what's your evidence he wasn't breathing?; 12/14/14, 3:17 AM
jr565 said...: Achilles wrote:
"You are obviously approving of the killing of people who break the law and/or disagree with you. Statists are all the same on the inside, they just disagree on who the state should oppress."

and it's clear, based on your reasoning thwt you are either really dumb, or so wedded to libertarianism you can't think straight.
I am approving of the killing of people who break the law and/or disagree with me. Where are you getting that? I'm in agreement with cops being able to arrest people. Because they enforce laws. In this case I don't think any cop thought by bringing him down they would kill anyone, so the idea that I would be suggesting it's ok for people to kill someone for breaking the law totally missiles the point. And they didn't kill him for breaking the law. They killed him after he resisted arrest. I'm not saying that cops should kill people for resisting arrest either, I'm only saying that sometimes it happens. In this case, they didn't kill him. He died in the ambulance later, though the bringing him down certsinly contributed to his death.
And where are you getti thwt I said cops should kill people who disagree with me. You keep taking what was clearly an accident and changing thr story to be one of premeditated murder. Why are you so dishonest?
The analogy I'll use is a football game. Football players need to tackle each other in the course of the game. Sometimes after a tackle someone is still lying on the field with an injury. In rare cases they die and or are paralyzed. Now, because I'm ok with football players tackling people does that mean The guy who got paralyzed deserved it? No, but the football players had every right to tackle him. And what occurred was a freak accident that happens periodically because football is a violent sport and in order to get a heavy person off their feet you have to apply a lot of pressure to their body and sometimes it leads to injuries.
So too when cops arrest someone. Even if cops don't intend to apply any extra force just enough force is enough to contribute to someone's death later on.
People are sometimes unhealthy, they're overweight. They can have heart attacks, they have asthma. Cops don't know people's medical histories they simply need to detain people. And they wouldn't have had to if he didn't start resisting. He brought it on himself.

"Statist are all,the same. They just disagree on who the state should oppress". Don't think I'm that much of a statist, except that I realize that the state has the power to enforce its laws. And what you call oppression I would call enforcing laws. now, I'm totally against Bloomberg getting rid of the horse drawn carriages. but if he did, the state has the right to enforce the laws if people still go out and give horse drawn carriage rides. Or decide to set up donkey rides in front of Central Park. Do they have a permit? If they don't, then how are they conducting business? That's not OPPRESSION, that's simply the state enforcing laws.
And if cops say they won't enforce laws when people who don't have permits conduct business anyway, then it makes a mockery of making people, get permits. Think of how much cost is involved in opening a bar. Getting a liquor license is expensive and takes time. Meanwhile a guy can sell booze out of the back of his truck in front of a bar? So then why should the bar have to jump through hoops? I don't think libertarians really believe in civil society. The very act of doing business is "oppression" and statism. Only that's not how the world works.; 12/14/14, 8:34 AM
Unknown said...: -----“The mayor and the speaker both know better than to think this inappropriate stunt represents the views of the majority of police officers and their families.”

Cuz we all know that maintaining discipline and dedication in a large organization is by publicly statiing that they are all potential stone cold killers.; 12/14/14, 11:29 AM