What's the lag time on what counts as hit and run?
Jason La Canfora, the CBS reporter who covers the NFL and who lives in the area, said he saw the badly injured victim on the side of the road and stopped to call 911. He said the driver of the car was gone at that point.I haven't researched the law here, but it seems to me that if you return to the scene because you realize you have been identified and will be caught, it's too late to undo the run. The run is all about the intention to get away with it, and once you know you're not going to get away with it, you're just switching approaches to what you were doing all along — serving your own interests.
A group of cyclists went looking for the vehicle and reported back to police that they had seen a car with a smashed windshield, La Canfora said. A short time later, the Subaru pulled up. He said its windshield was "three-quarters shattered."
***
From all blindness of heart; from pride, vainglory, and hypocrisy; from envy, hatred, and malice; and from all want of charity, Good Lord, deliver us.
UPDATE: Finally, on January 9, the bishop was charged with manslaughter. We also learn that her blood alcohol level was 0.22 and that at the time of the accident, she was texting.
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170 comments:
Having hit a pedestrian (and not run), I can tell you that you immediately go into a form of shock, that could easily become panic.
let's listen to what she has to say first.
A lag time is not necessarily the same as an intention to get away with it. Since it seemed to be only a few minutes, I would place my bet that she won't be prosecuted for hit and run. (Is hit and run the same as leaving the scene?)
Who knows, maybe that few minutes was used to get rid of an open chalice of altar wine.
Delayed repentance is better than none. But the motives might be questioned here, certainly.
reading the story, it looks like she hit the guy while he was in a marked bike lane and fled. broad daylight, good area.
my initial impression is that she should have been charged. The guy could have died without immediate aid.
Yeah... it's hard to argue that you didn't notice the accident when your windshield is shattered.
Why does it matter that she's a woman?
Running out on responsability for injuring another is a moral character flaw of the worst type possible.
The stopping and rendering aid Statutes are criminal intent based with serious penalties. Usually the runner is never caught. The ones who are caught tend to be fleeing DUI charges and get caught by being dumb drunks.
The cleresy problems are too easy. Since the elevated clerics are nearly worshiped themselves they think they are above the law.
"The Drill SGT said...
....The guy could have died without immediate aid. "
He did die. And yes, criminal HNR. Normally being a woman might be enough to dodge justice, and she drives a Subaru, so there's a 90% she's a lesbian, also helpful.
Sadly, that all goes down the drain because she is a Christian.
I would say the moment you go out of sight, it is hit and run. After that it's remorse at best, which should probably be taken into account at sentencing time, but does not undo the run.
20 minutes later is far too much time to overlook.
See, this is what happens when you let women be ministers...
(Just kidding, of course.)
Interesting to speculate what Bishop Cook did during the "about 20 minutes" that elapsed before she returned to the scene. Did she flush her stash of drugs at home? Take a stiff drink to steady her nerves and to attempt to explain why her BAC might be over the limit? These are not wild speculations, in view of her 2010 arrest on drinking, driving and drug charges.
Is it a sin to run over a bicyclist on a public road?
John Henry
Thanks CG,
I read about the death elsewhere and was coming back to fix my post.
more than that,
Bishop Suffragan Heather Cook, who's in the diocese's No. 2 spot, was driving the car that hit 41-year-old Tom Palermo on a sunny Saturday afternoon, diocese spokeswoman Sharon Tillman said. Palermo died at a nearby hospital.
He wasn't dead at the scene, so any delay in summoning aid is germane...
BTW, note the Baltimore Brew's wickedly funny choice of photographs in the linked article. High Church indeed.
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...
Is it a sin to run over a bicyclist on a public road?
Liberals want to carve up roads for green transportation, so I suspect it is a sin if a Republican had done it...
Sadly, that all goes down the drain because she is a Christian.
...well, Episcopalian. Next best thing to being an atheist.
If she truly has a record of DUI, and she was impaired for this accident, they should throw the book at her, both to get her off the road, and to serve as an example to others.
She can minister in prision.
The Brew asked Tillman if Bishop Cook is the same Heather Elizabeth Cook, 4325 Cabin Creek Road, arrested in September 2010 on drinking, driving and drug charges in Caroline County, according to this local media coverage and online court records.
If she's the same person that was arrested before, did the Episcopalians just take leave of their senses in order to ordain her bishop? I would think that such charges and the underlying substance abuse problems that probably accompany them, would render one unfit for higher ecclesiastical office.
Apparently not.
If she was drinking, she was smart to hit and run. They can't prove you were drinking at the time of the accident.
One of the absurdities of the law.
2010, they dropped her drug charges and plead the DUI to probation, THEN 4 years later made he a Bishop...
Hang her...
PRESTON A Hurlock woman was arrested on drinking and driving and drug charges in Preston Sept. 10, according to a Caroline County Sheriff's Office news release.
Police said Heather Elizabeth Cook, 53, of Cabin Creek Road, was charged with marijuana and drug paraphernalia possession, driving while under the influence of alcohol, reckless driving, negligent driving and other traffic offenses.
Police said Cook's car was stopped on state Route 318, near Greenfield Court, and deputies found that the front passenger tire of her car was shredded and had fallen off the rim.
Cook performed poorly on field sobriety tests, police said, and her blood alcohol level registered at .27, more than three times the legal limit in Maryland, in a breath test.
Police said a bottle of wine and a bottle of whiskey were found in her car the whiskey bottle nearly empty along with a metal smoking device.
Cook was arrested and taken to a District Court commissioner, police said, before being released on her own recognizance.
Cook said, "I'm just a girl..."
Religion - no substitute for morality.
She gets off because the Episcopalian Church is a far-left arm of the Democrats.
Curious George,
Cook Autobiographical Statement
That it may please thee to illumine all bishops, priests, and
deacons, with true knowledge and understanding of thy
Word; and that both by their preaching and living, they may
set it forth, and show it accordingly,
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord.
I would say the moment you go out of sight, it is hit and run.
Sometimes it takes a moment for your brain to register what happened, so I could see someone driving past, figuring out what that was and turning around immediately (but still a bit out of site). Or on certain types of roads you may need to go a distance, turn around etc....
But not 20 minutes. And since the person was not killed instantly, the delay in aid may have played a part in the death.
With a visible injury to her car, you can easily argue that she realized she would be caught and came back, although I would normally say coming back at all should get you some mitigation of sentence. I'll wait to see what she says.
The legally drunk (male) Lutheran Bishop who killed a (female) jogger in Sun Prairie back in 2012 received a 10-year sentence. But he didn't hit and run.
So now we have a female Episcopal bishop (with a DUI history) running down a male biker and fleeing.
Not quite the same thing -- worse. So she would get more than 10 years in Wisconsin, I'll guess.
"Kylos said...
Curious George,
Cook Autobiographical Statement"
So?
Just saw the history of DUI/reckless driving etc bit...That makes this seem far more reckless. They should hit her hard.
So?
No evidence of Lesbianism?
"Female Bishop" says all that needs to be said
Damn liberals aren't going to be happy until they ruin every tradition our country was built on.
MayBee said: If she was drinking, she was smart to hit and run. They can't prove you were drinking at the time of the accident.
Her blood/alcohol would betray her even after 20 minutes.
I don't think there is any smartness involved, although Gahrie's first comment is true from his experience.
Christianity is also not in your blood. It comes through another source and resides elsewhere.
"Not quite the same thing -- worse. "
No, not nearly as bad. Killing a female is far worse than killing a male, and being a male is well-nigh unforgivable.
The victim had a name and a family. Tom Palermo. I knew him in passing because I ride bikes and sometimes do stuff in the community. A lot of my bike riding friends were somewhat closer, actual friends with him. He was a bike maker and made high quality bikes. A craftsman, he was well known and well-liked in the local biking community, a nice guy.
Sad.
"MadisonMan said...
So?
No evidence of Lesbianism?"
Again:
Female. Never married. Subaru.
TCR James said...
and not being 18 and not being in the city, was likely very traffic aware and in his lane?
George is actually right for a change. Any woman who pretends to be a "Bishop" in a fake church is most likely a dyke, which makes this crime an even bigger deal.
She's probably fat too. Anyone seen any pictures?
It seems to me that the underlying immorality of hit-and-run, hence the illegality, is that having caused injury you have not rendered all possible assistance to the victim. Bishop Cook's actions fit this description.
campy said...Killing a female is far worse than killing a male, and being a male is well-nigh unforgivable.
Maybe...are we talking about an attractive female? 'Cause in the hierarchy of death, attractive young white woman is right up there with Hollywood Celebrity. Mr. Palermo may not rank so high, but surely he comes in better than immigrant laborer.
TCR James, thank you for writing in. It is good to get the reminder that he was a person, people loved him, he will be missed. It's also a good reminder of how close each of us is to tragedy.
There's good, bad and indifferent bishops. Whether the bad and indifferent ones should go on being bishops once their lack of virtue is evident, is a question each church has to asnwer for itself.
Hit and run is, I think, morally one of the worst things you can do without being a child molestor or a serial killer.
"20 minutes later is far too much time to overlook."
If you were hit by a car and lying in the street and the 911 call is made not immediately but minutes later, those are huge minutes!
Every minute is full of pain, fear, and risk of death. This was 20 minutes.
And the return came after she was tracked down by people who saw her.
"If she was drinking, she was smart to hit and run. They can't prove you were drinking at the time of the accident."
This is why the penalty for hitting and running should be more than for DUI.
AReasonableMeltdown: "Religion - no substitute for morality"
Alas, not all of us are willing to create the Soviet paradise of ARMeltdown's dreams here in the US.
I guess we'll just have to continue lumbering through life with our religion and freedoms.
Poor Episcopalians; they threw away every tenet of their religion and the moral arbiter ARM STILL doesn't find them acceptable...
Ted Kennedy got away with it.
madisonfella: "George is actually right for a change. Any woman who pretends to be a "Bishop" in a fake church is most likely a dyke, which makes this crime an even bigger deal."
It's nice to see that madisonfella has returned to "strawman/put words in peoples mouths" form which despite being intellectually dishonest (par for the course for her) is at least a little better than the "(insert group/name here) is forced to believe......." form from a few days back.
That li'l tactic didn't survive it's first real brush with "the enemy", did it madisonfella?
Cut and paste from comments at article site:
I was one of the first to
arrive at the incident - returning from a ride up Lake ave and onto Roland.
Calls were immediately made to 911. I checked Mr. Palermo several times for a
pulse and to check breathing - to no avail. Remained at the scene until it was
secured by the police and walked my bike across the median strip to thank one
of the gentlemen who was early at the scene. He was in a conversation with
another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit
Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model but not the
license. Immediately I rode in the direction they had indicated and caught the
car at the light at Lake. There was no question in my mind after viewing the
damaged windshield that this was the car. I asked the driver if she was all
right as the light changed and she drove straight ahead down the road that dead
ends at Elkridge Estates a gated apartment complex with a gatehouse guard and
swinging gates to stop traffic in and out. I was able to get the first 4
numbers of the plate and immediately went after her. I was stopped by the guard
and indicated that there had been a potentially fatal hit-and-run and I
believed the car with the smashed windshield was involved and needed to find
it. A postal service delivery man assisted me with directions and he also
helped. In attempting to ride down the apt road closest go the gatehouse I was
stopped by the security guard who said I could not be riding in the complex and
that the car has just left the complex. She had not stopped the car nor gotten
the license number so I rode back up the hill to the light at Lake and saw the
driver talking to a policeman. I rode up to them and, without anything else to
say thanked her for returning to the scene.
In April 2012 I was hit by a hit-and-run driver on Lake near the "T"
with Roland. A driver attempted to go after the car but was unsuccessful. I'm
thankful that the car and driver that hit Mr. Palermo has been identified.
My heart goes out to the Palermo family and friends on this sad occasion
furious_a: "Ted Kennedy got away with it."
Mary Jo Kopechne clearly must of had it coming. Which is why the lefties continued (and continue) to worship the memory of their "Lion of the Senate".
richard mcenroe: "Poor Episcopalians; they threw away every tenet of their religion and the moral arbiter ARM STILL doesn't find them acceptable.."
"Christians" who don't accept Jesus as Christ or the path to Heaven. This is on top of the full on embrace of Marxist economics as well.
It's hard to believe that ARMeltdown hasn't joined up.
Perhaps it took her 20 minutes to get the message from God that she wasn't being the best representative of her faith and she decided to go back.
Oh I see the neighbors who saw the hit and run were doing the Lord's work.
OMG, I drive a Subaru and I have 6 children. Should I be worried?
Jesus! I'm an Episcopalian, do most people think they are the next best thing to an atheist?
"Oh I see the neighbors who saw the hit and run were doing the Lord's work."
Snitches get stitches.
From the beginning of 1 Timothy 3:
"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer [or bishop], he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."
Cloistered virtue exposed
OMG, I drive a Subaru and I have 6 children. Should I be worried?
Seriously, I had heard good things about the suburu and was looking into it, but I guess I'm not supposed to buy one or something?
Anyway, I don't think this lady gets any points for coming back, since it looks like the witnesses pretty much had her dead to rights.
It seems to me that the underlying immorality of hit-and-run, hence the illegality, is that having caused injury you have not rendered all possible assistance to the victim. Bishop Cook's actions fit this description.
Indeed. BTW, what is this fake religion stuff? It's not like she was a unitarian! She can be a bad person, no matter her religion.
The victim had a name and a family. Tom Palermo.
God bless his family and friends. I had a friend who was hit and killed by a car a few years ago. I'm sure he will be missed.
I'm an Episcopalian, do most people think they are the next best thing to an atheist?
Not the individual members but the higher ups. I used to be an Episcopalian but am now not after exposure to that. The priest who baptized me decided the same and left as well.
I don't know Linda, were you ever married?
Linda said...Jesus! I'm an Episcopalian, do most people think they are the next best thing to an atheist?
Oh no. A Unitarian is the next best thing to an atheist.
An Episcopalian is the next best thing to a Unitarian.
I have a serious question here. Why do some people here think Episcolpalians aren't truly Christian, or Christian enough? I find this quite insulting and actually to be quite an unChristian attitude. I'm a conservative woman with 6 children, married happily for many years and drive a Subaru.
It's silly to lump people together by what car they drive, what religion they are and if they are childless or not to make the determination as to whether they are 'acceptable' or not. Conservatives need to be cut out using the same cookie cutter now? What a depressing and disappointing attitude from conservatives.
My wife asked me to select and buy a car for her. We chose the Subaru XV Crosstrek. She loves it. I recommend it highly.
Tim M, so you disagree with this commenter? Glad to hear it.
"...well, Episcopalian. Next best thing to being an atheist."
12/29/14, 11:50 AM
20 minutes is out of the open-to-question zone.
Way out.
I have a serious question here. Why do some people here think Episcolpalians aren't truly Christian, or Christian enough?
It's not because of the members, it's because of the leadership and a large number of priests who would not be considered Christians by most Christians. (For example, a priest who preaches that it doesn't matter whether or not the resurrection actually happened. I sat through that one on an Easter years ago.)
But no, it's not right to tar all Episcopalians because of some bad priests and bishops.
tim maguire said...
Linda said...Jesus! I'm an Episcopalian, do most people think they are the next best thing to an atheist?
Oh no. A Unitarian is the next best thing to an atheist.
An Episcopalian is the next best thing to a Unitarian.
Actually, that's not nice. My absolute favorite "get away" is Holy Cross Monastery near Poughkeepsie, New York. Beautiful surroundings, very affordable, the Brothers are welcoming. And no phone, no TV, no radio, no computer. It's like a decompression chamber, but with better food. I recommend it to everyone, whether they are religious or not.
And it's Episcopalian.
Did not you know, such creatures are higher than humans and not bound by our democratically (Mob) enacted laws.
The same holds true for the Bible's teachings against homosexual acts and those acts of the murder of unborn children.
Freeman Hunt, every religion has "higher ups" who don't represent their faith well. Doesn't make the entire religion unChristian. I've heard news stories of some Baptists and Lutheran ministers that have murdered their wives. I know there was a huge issue with pedophilia in the Catholic church.
Linda,
Don't know where you live but in the Northeast and Midwest many Episcopalian churches are indistinguishable from left wing cauldrons with a view of Jesus that is so watered down people would rather stay home and say May the Force Be with You.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is also a left wing loon who saturates Christianity with tripe.
If you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, that's fine. But that belief is a core of Christianity, which is why people laugh at Unitarianism.
If it were a Catholic priest, they would be speculating on whether or not he had been distracted by the ministrations of an underage parishioner.......Episcopalians aren't necessarily atheists, but if you doubted the existence of God and wanted the solace of organized religion, then that's the go to faith.......Is her religious status a mitigating or aggravating factor, or both?
And now a police investigator is reported as saying Bishop Cook was texting at the time of the accident. This will not go well for her.
But no, it's not right to tar all Episcopalians because of some bad priests and bishops.
Good point, Freeman. But it is SOP to tar many groups on this blog.
There are some solid Episcopalian believers around us. Those who strongly disagree with the bishoping of the gay priest from NH a few years ago have split that denomination with the Anglican Church of North America being the offshoot. That Anglican church has roots in Africa, not Britain and they really have the faith!
Shout God Is Great and you'll get the media on your side.
"Bob Ellison said...
My wife asked me to select and buy a car for her. We chose the Subaru XV Crosstrek. She loves it. I recommend it highly."
Dodged a bullet there Bobby. If it was an Outback or Forester then you might want to know where she goes Tuesday mornings.
Seriously,
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/01/02/lesbians_and_subarus_why_do_lesbians_love_outbacks_and_foresters.html
Why would anyone buy a Subaru when there is Volvo.
If she was Catholic, she'd have to settle for a Hit and Nun.
If it was an Outback or Forester then you might want to know where she goes Tuesday mornings.
I know you're joking, but this is faulty logic. I don't think the lesbian market alone could support a car company.
The Anglican faith was originally founded to give King Henry an excuse to confiscate Church property. . By my count, good Prince Harry is now third or fourth in line to be head of the Anglican Church. There are now more practicing Catholics than Anglicans in England, so the Pope gets the last laugh.
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is [wholly] righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins."
She probably feels terrible. Not an excuse but it needs to be said. Let the law judge her and pray for her and mr. Palermo's family.
Apologies to Ann on my comment of 2:02.
I did not intend to include our blogress as one of the tarring people or factions.
John Lynch said...
Why does it matter that she's a woman?
Because if she's convicted, she'll almost certainly get a far lighter sentence than a man would receive for the exact same thing.
"Equal justice under the law" is one of those funny lies we Americans like to believe is true despite all evidence to the contrary.
Also, "...from all things that go bomp in the night---As moral responsibility".
Well, she made a choice. Unfortunately, for her, it was not made in the privacy of a government-approved sanctuary. The exclusive exception to common standards of legal and moral conduct afforded to women will not reduce her liability for demonstrating bad judgment.
As for religion or moral philosophy, it engenders an orientation, but does not determine expression. That remains an individual choice.
Oh, I'm sure Christianity is on that cafeteria buffet counter in the Episcopal church.
Along with all the other options.
Somewhere. :-)
I once hit a pedestrian, a woman. Happened in a blinding snowstorm on a narrow side street when she ran out between parked cars. I immediately stopped and got out of my car and pulled her out from under the vehicle. I wasn't being a hero, didn't even think about it, I did it automatically--values instilled by parents and religion and community and all. A few months later she filed suit against me. My insurance company decided, unusually, to fight it out in court. Much to everyone's astonishment, the jury found against her and completely exonerated me. Sometimes justice prevails.
Comments on the episcopalcafe.com article on this seem to suggest that it was not 20 minutes, rather, 45 minutes. She was followed by a cyclist all the way to her gated community and then returned when she found out she was spotted. Again, this is not official, just in the comments.
The issues other Christians have with the Episcopalian church are as follows:
1. Acceptance of active homosexual lifestyle
2. Support for abortion on demand including partial birth abortion.
3. Lack of support for Biblical authority when addressing major social or theological issues.
4. Belief that Jesus Christ is not "the only" way to God but just one of many ways.
These do not imply that Episcopalians are tantamount to athiests, but the the drift away from Biblical authority and the doctrine of "no one comes to the father except by me", makes them so watered down that they teach a false Gospel, which might be construed as being more damaging than to outright reject God altogether because it sells a lie in place of a truth and will lead astray those who thought they might be "in when they were really "out", and those who profess to believe may find at the time of judgement Jesus telling them "I never knew you."
This does not mean any individual Episcopalian is or is not a Christian, but a church that supports the above views does not represent what many believe to be proper doctrine, and thus followers of such doctrine might be misled, and supporters of such an institution might be contributing to the misleading of the children. Do you want that millstone around your neck? One should always verify that the organization they are in is in alignment with their understanding of the Gospel, and if not, can they affect that leadership positively or should they look to support leadership that does.
Related to the specific topic on hand: I would certainly wonder about an organization that would "promote" to Bishophood a person who was misusing alcohol and drugs. That is not, in itself a reason to break fellowship, but I would want a clear justification for their decision as it violates the clear Pauline instructions about leadership in the Church.
So there are two ministers in town - an Episcopalian and a Unitarian. Anyway, the Unitarian minister dies, and there's no other minister available to handle the funeral. So a representative of the Unitarian congregation approaches the Episcopalian and asks if he would do the funeral services.
The Episcopalian minister says "well, this is unusual. I've never been asked this before. Let me write my bishop and get permission."
So he writes the Episcopal bishop. And eventually receives a response:
"Permission granted. We encourage you to bury all the Unitarians you possibly can!"
I'm not a huge fan of the current Episcopalians (or Smells and Bells, as the religion I was educated into calls them), due to past experiences of having to hide bodies to protect names and fortunes.
The fellow who was killed due to the Pharisee's indecision is Serious Loss.
A woman dies and goes to heaven, and St. Peter takes her on a tour of heaven. They pass a pit where there were people gnashing their teeth and wailing, and the woman says, "Who's down there?"
St. Peter says, "Oh, those are the Catholics who ate meat on Fridays."
They walked a little farther and there was another pit with more groaning and wailing, and she says, "O.K., who's down there?"
St. Peter answers, "Those are the Baptists who went to dances."
And a little farther along, there was another pit and people down there gnashing their teeth and crying and ripping their garments, and she says, "And those people?"
And St. Peter says, "Those are the Episcopalians who ate their salads with their dessert forks."
@ The Drill SGT: >>>>and not being 18 and not being in the city, was likely very traffic aware and in his lane?
Yeah. It's never okay to hit somebody but but the guy rode around a lot for many, many years, and at the time of the accident was minding his own business in a separate, marked bike lane. She had no excuse for hitting him there.
I live outside DC and ride in the rural, suburban and urban areas around here. While there are some roads to avoid due to traffic safety issues, most of the greater D.C. area is very rideable and it's not that bad to work into traffic. There's high traffic density but most of the cyclists and most drivers are pretty cool. Typical accidents usually involve a truck or bus hitting a cyclist in an intersection in downtown DC or Balmer, an immigrant laborer not quite following the traffic laws in a white van and running down a bike commuter in the D.C. exurbs, or more recently we've had a spate of drunks hitting riders who were out on a Saturday in the suburbs/exurbs. The use of bikes as transportation is way up in the region so an increase in accidents is to be expected but some of the accidents show a disturbing lack of driving skills and basic consideration of others. Who frigging drives drunk down the shoulder of the road, in the bike lane, in the middle of the day?
She hit. She ran. It's a hit and run.
Under Maryland law and probably everywhere else, she has to immediately stop her car.
I don't think Episcopalians are especially prone to protecting their own, but we still should expect more from them than Bishop Sutton's Clintonesque defensiveness. She came back when he was dead. Nothing to see here!
She'll be lucky if it's just leaving the scene. If they can prove he wouldn't have died if she called 911 right away, why not manslaughter?
"Shanna said...
I know you're joking, but this is faulty logic. I don't think the lesbian market alone could support a car company."
Please. The faulty logic is yours. I never said that only lesbians drive Subarus, or Outbacks specifically. I said the opposite. Lesbians like Subaru Foresters and Outbacks. So much so that there is now the term "Lesbaru."
Oh, he was still alive. That doesn't make it any better for her; the delay still could have caused his death.
The Anglican faith was originally founded to give King Henry an excuse to confiscate Church property. . By my count, good Prince Harry is now third or fourth in line to be head of the Anglican Church. There are now more practicing Catholics than Anglicans in England, so the Pope gets the last laugh.
That post is accurate other than for the omission of the Protestant Reformation of Europe.*
* posted by the 11th-great-grandson of Henry Compton, Bishop of London, one of the Immortal Seven, commissioner to revise the Liturgy, twice Chancellor of the College of William and Mary and instrumental in establishing the Church of England in the colonies.
Pull the other one. You implied that if his wife drove a forrester he should be worried. Nonsense.
"Shanna said...
Pull the other one. You implied that if his wife drove a forrester he should be worried. Nonsense."
As you said, I was kidding.
at least a little better than the "(insert group/name here) is forced to believe......." form from a few days back
You've been forced to believe that I started that phrase. You really should read the links Althouse provides before trying to comment.
Tho, it is kinda funny when you make yourself look dumb like that. So never mind and keep on keeping on just like you've been doing.
furious_a -- Ted Kennedy had a different religion: Democrat.
"strawman/put words in peoples mouths"
Your rage has made you blind to the fact that the "Curious George" (one of your many sockpuppets) actually did say, twice, that she is probably a lesbian. I was simply agreeing with him.
No strawman.
That post is accurate other than for the omission of the Protestant Reformation of Europe.
Actually, no, it's perfectly accurate by omitting the Protestant Reformation. Henry VIII was a staunch opponent of the theologies of Luther and Calvin, and made sure that his church never adopted any Protestant reforms in his lifetime.
If you're Ted Kennedy I think the lag time is a couple of decades.
There are reports that The Bishop had not been drinking this time but was texting. So nice to know that she is irresponsible whether drunk or sober.
She left the scene. Not just for a panicked moment (and according to some accounts for longer than 20 minutes.) Her windshield was bashed. She knew she had hit someone, and hard. And then she left him there to suffer and die.
Perhaps she was not drinking, but why is someone with a .27 DUI made bishop in the first place? That can't have been the only time she drove drunk. Not at .27.
I do not care if she was drunk or sober, straight or lesbian, or even whether she is sorry now. Her irresponsibility cost a man his life, and cost a family a father. Her callous indifference and selfishness removed all chance that he might have been saved.
In most places, leaving the scene of an accident, and failing to render aid are separate offenses. Leaving the scene wherein personal injury is involved is probably a felony, and I think any reasonable interpretation of LSA has been met. By leaving and returning, the driver may have denied the state the ability to charge DUI injury accident, although obviously if she was imparied, they can still charge the stand-alone DUI. But by dint of her leaving, the state can no longer disprove the consumption of alcohol (drugs) took place in the interim. Smart or lucky.
As we should all now recognize, occupation is no guarantee of character, witness...well, never mind the best examples.
"If they can prove he wouldn't have died if she called 911 right away, why not manslaughter?"
Negligent homicide (aka involuntary manslaughter) is a lock, if the facts are as stated. This would be true even if she had not left the scene.
In California, the driver has a legal duty to stop and render aid. In California, I believe she would be charged.
I'm not sure that leaving the scene immunizes her from being found drunk at the time of the accident. Depends on what the blood alcohol is and how long since the accident to measurement. Also they can use witness testimony to prove that she had been drinking, if there are witnesses (and if she had been drinking at all.)
The texting should be easier to prove via records.
Gotcha, Bishop. Time to plead rehab.
and in fact the violation is actually, "failure to stop and render aid". So she did the run part and cant deny it
madisonfella: "Your rage has made you blind to the fact that the "Curious George" (one of your many sockpuppets) actually did say, twice, that she is probably a lesbian. I was simply agreeing with him"
LOL
Your rage has blinded you to the fact that my comment specifically referred to your current rhetorical tactics and was not referring to anything substantive posted by anyone else anywhere else.
I must say, it is kinda funny when you make yourself look dumb like that. So never mind and keep on keeping on just like you've been doing.
madisonfella: "... "Curious George" (one of your many sockpuppets) ...."
LOL
So now Curious George is MY sockpuppet, as opposed to Drago being his sockpuppet (or any one of a half dozen others you have accused of being sock puppets).
You really should make up your mind as to which incorrect path you are going to continue meandering down.
I would never hit and run, unless I were in the ghetto. Then I would drive only as far as I had to to reach safety (i.e. out of sight of any blacks).
"David said...
Her callous indifference and selfishness removed all chance that he might have been saved."
This is just plain stupid.
Linda, the difference between the issues is that the Episcopal issue is what the church is teaching and what the higher ups would like it to teach, not the sins of individual priests.
Hard to in the slammer for this POS.
George, the guy on the bike died on the scene before any help got there. If medical help arrives while he is still alive, there's a chance. If he's dead when the medics arrive, no chance.
He might have died anyway, but she did not stop to call for assistance.
Daily Mail in UK has the most details, as often.
1. Photo of the vehicle shows a hole in the windshield and the entire right side of the windshield cracked and crazed. The hole looks like it could have been made by a human head.
2. Photos also show a wide bike land and that these are not main streets.
" David said...
George, the guy on the bike died on the scene before any help got there. If medical help arrives while he is still alive, there's a chance. If he's dead when the medics arrive, no chance.
He might have died anyway, but she did not stop to call for assistance."
911 was called immediately by another. There were many many people on the scene. The bishops leaving seems to have had zero impact on the victims fate.
I haven't read through all 100+ comments yet, so someone probably already mentioned this, but...
I think this was settled a long time ago in a river called Chappaquiddick.
Well, I survived my 50 mile bike ride today. I first read this post and some of the comments when I stopped for lunch mid-ride. I hoped there was no omen involved. Right after I got back on the road again a car came up behind me real fast and honked aggressively while I was getting into a left turn lane, so that was my close call(-ish) for the day. That's a pretty unusual thing to happen, though. Drivers usually treat me fine.
Linda,
I don't have a problem with Episcopalians calling themselves Christians, its just, if they do, I no longer know what to call what I believe.
Because I don't believe the same thing Episcopalians believe. My Church teaches a different Gospel than Episcopalians.
Calling us both Christian is just confusing. Might as well call Muslim's Christian as well.
Language is supposed to be a way to communicate, not to confuse.
This is why the penalty for hitting and running should be more than for DUI.
Very true. It is definitely a case of perverse incentives.
In her biography she thanks her partner of two years, Mark, for his support.
The Episcopalians were a mixed bunch, but they seem to be getting lesss mixed now (the establishment of the Anglican Church in the Americas has helped peel off a few of the conservative movers-and-shakers who had been trying to serve as a counterweight). More orthodox Christians are still giggling about Bishop Spong.
I'm not doctrinally all that close to them, but I always appreciated the medieval grandeur of the National Cathedral's services, and would attend Anglican churches when I was traveling abroad.
Episcopalians have a Nicean Creed statement of belief that is Christian Credentials.. The Book of Common prayer is 90% scripture. But they will compromise with anything to show that they forgive everything...including unbelief in the bullet points of their own creed.
The reformers wanted to reform the Episcopal/Catholic services and hierarchical governance by appointed Bishops.
The best understanding of Episcopal Church is that it is the Church of by and for the British Monarchy. It's Downton Abbey redux with a desire to submit to the Monarch du jour.. that happens to be money.
The Reformers were renamed Protestants when they protested torture and murder committed against them by the counter-reformation Catholics
Eric, if your Christian identity is that insecure, I suggest you pray over it.
Might as well call Muslim's Christian as well.
Funny you should write that. There was an Episcopal priest named Redding in Washington state who converted to Islam, publicly claiming to be both Christian and Muslim and remaining a priest. The local bishop there said he was excited about the interfaith possibilities. The bishop in Rhode Island, where she was ordained, was less excited, so that bishop told Redding to drop Islam or resign. She did neither, and so she was defrocked.
When I said Prince Harry was third or fourth in line to head the Anglican Church, I did not mean that as a slam on him. Prince Harry, like so many red heads, is a fine man, but he would not be my third or fourth choice to head a major religion. Still, all things considered, he's a better choice than this bishop.
You have to wait for him to die so your story is not contradicted. Any Episcopal bishop knows that.
Not sure how much female has to do with it. I think I would have lead with "Maryland Episcopal Bishop hits and kills..."
"Perhaps she was not drinking, but why is someone with a .27 DUI made bishop in the first place? That can't have been the only time she drove drunk. Not at .27. "
She might be a candidate for DA in the county around Austin TX. I haven't seen her picture, so can't be sure
Who needs to spend an hour a week in an Anglican pew when 'Will and Grace' reruns are only as far away as one's living room sofa?
There was an Episcopal priest named Redding in Washington state who converted to Islam, publicly claiming to be both Christian and Muslim and remaining a priest. The local bishop there said he was excited about the interfaith possibilities.
At least the Orthodox Greeks and Slavs put up a fight before they submitted to dhimmitude.
You have to be completely insane to ride a bicycle on the road. I do it fairly often. But I am completely insane.
Episcopalians are unpopular among people whose lives center on resentment of one form or another. So it goes.
Linda,
I'll keep that in mind. Its tough to spread the gospel to unbeleivers when even the unbelievers are calling themselves Christians.
I'm glad we can call them Episcopalians though. At least that helps to differentiate.
Mormons like to call themselves Christians also. I like to goof on them when they try and proselytize by telling them I am a Mormon. Sure, I say, Joseph Smith was a liar and a conman, but if you can call yourself a Christian then I get to be a Mormon.
Maybe I'll have to start calling myself an episcopalian next.
There was an Episcopal priest named Redding in Washington state who converted to Islam, publicly claiming to be both Christian and Muslim and remaining a priest. The local bishop there said he was excited about the interfaith possibilities.
I, for one, welcome our new Muslim overlords!
Linda...
I'm sorry it has to come out this way. And we always meant to tell you. The Episcopal Church is not your real dad. :-)
somefeller: "somefeller said...
Episcopalians are unpopular among people whose lives center on resentment of one form or another."
Wow.
That's the first I've heard that the Episcopalians are unpopular among Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the entire feminist movement, OWS, and basically the remainder of the left as well.
Somefeller, where did you hear this?
Here's the funny part... if you look up the Episcopalian creeds on their own website, under the Apostle's Creed, they still include the line "I believe in the holy catholic Church."
Bitch, please! :-)
To this day I can't hear the words "Bishop Spong" without thinking of a sudden erection."
Definition of Episcopalian in the dictionary: "n. A nominal Christian so open-minded his or her brain falls out."
Actually, Linda, other Christians might not give you guys such a hard time if the Episcopal church leadership could be counted on to stand up for one single frigging principle, ever, in the face of any kind of worldly resistance.
Ann, I didn't realize your blog's comment sections were so full of religious bigots. Is this the brave new face of conservatism? 'Purity' in conformity of thought and belief?
Linda,
No purity of thought required. But you should get out more often. Episcopalianism in the US is for nonreligious people who don't like football. This can't be news to you.
And as I was saying...
...holy catholic church...
…"catholic" as in "universal", not "Catholic" as in "Roman".
@Linda: I think this comes across more as kidding than as religious bigotry. Episcopalians simply don't inspire religious hatred nor, for that matter, great humor.......A priest and a rabbi are walking down the street when they see a kid. The priest says "That's a cute kid. Let's screw him." The rabbi replies "Don't be silly. A kid that age can't have more than five dollars."
somefeller said...
"Episcopalians are unpopular among people whose lives center on resentment of one form or another. So it goes."
Leftists don't like Episcopalians?
@William:
A rabbi, a priest, and a lawyer are standing on the deck of a sinking ship.
Rabbi: we must save the children!
Lawyer: ahh, fuck 'em.
Priest: do we have time?
William (12:20am):
I prefer the version where the rabbi says "Out of what?"
Paco Wové (8:48am):
I've heard that as involving a minister, a rabbi, and a priest, in that order. Also, it was an interfaith cruise for the boys of the Orphans Home, so the minister's comment (#1) is "We have to save the boys!".
Actually, no, it's perfectly accurate by omitting the Protestant Reformation. Henry VIII was a staunch opponent of the theologies of Luther and Calvin, and made sure that his church never adopted any Protestant reforms in his lifetime.
Were Thomas Cranmer alive he might tend to disagree a wee bit with you, as would have Cromwell before open rebellion swept England and Henry acted to quell dissent.
Pope Clement VII might, as well.
Certainly Cranmer and Edward VI made the theology and liturgy of the CoE markedly protestant and public opinion followed, but Henry set this in motion - in order to gather supremacy to the throne and away from Rome.
Linda: Ann, I didn't realize your blog's comment sections were so full of religious bigots. Is this the brave new face of conservatism? 'Purity' in conformity of thought and belief?
Oh give it a rest, you twit. All the various Christian denominations have been calling each other "unChristian" for, oh, millenia now. Well, duh. If people think Doctrines X,Y,Z are the true Christian doctrines, they're going to think people who reject those docrines aren't Christians. So why the butthurt? It is simply a matter of fact that the Episcopal establishment and many Episcopalians (along with the officialdom and good numbers of members just about every other major denomination) are just sinks of sanctimonious wet-liberal hoo-hah pretending to have something to do with Higher Things.
For a "conservative Episcopalian", you sure do sound an awful lot like those wet whiny lefty Christians that people make fun of - apparently believing that "not hurting feelings (especially mine)" is the supreme Christian virtue, and the passive-aggressive manifestation of thereof: "How dare you call me unChristian, you unChristian meanie!". Lol. And, oh yes, the requisite recitation of the 11th commandment: "Generalizing about anything makes baby Jesus weep!"
I know "conservative Episcopalians". They don't disagree with the mockers. They often are the mockers.
Ann, I didn't realize your blog's comment sections were so full of religious bigots. Is this the brave new face of conservatism? 'Purity' in conformity of thought and belief?
I am curious as to what language is your primary one as it clearly cannot be English.
Anglelyne said:
"All the various Christian denominations have been calling each other "unChristian" for, oh, millenia now. Well, duh. If people think Doctrines X,Y,Z are the true Christian doctrines, they're going to think people who reject those docrines aren't Christians."
Linda, the sack of ignorance and mis-information quoted above paints quite nicely the parameters of American Christianity, as it is understood (and, no doubt practiced) by large swaths of the Althouse commentariat.
I wouldn't let their knee-jerk, low-level snark bother you. They know not what they do.
bbkingfish: Linda, the sack of ignorance and mis-information quoted above paints quite nicely the parameters of American Christianity, as it is understood (and, no doubt practiced) by large swaths of the Althouse commentariat.
I wouldn't let their knee-jerk, low-level snark bother you. They know not what they do.
Lol. Love the martyred air.
I'm not a Christian, or a practitioner of any other religion, so it's hardly possible for me to fit within the "parameters of American Christianity", nicely or otherwise. Let me guess, you think because I note Linda's silliness I must be one of them thar bible-bashin' red-state fundies out huntin' heretics who might be interferin' with muh plans for imposin' a righteous Christ-ican thee-okracy on this sinful land, eh?
Like Linda, you're just emo'ing out about some perceived "attack" on...something, hell, I don't know what, and you probably don't, either, since it's apparently all about the feels. Why you two are so almighty butthurt over people simply making supportable observations about the general watered-down, wet-liberal tone and orientation of many mainstream American Christian, Episcopalians in particular (as opposed to just disagreeeing like adults), I do not know.
Normal people: "Episcopalians should probably bring their doctrines and practices into conformity with the Bible in which they profess to believe."
Liberal Episcopalians: "BIGOTS!!!"
lulz.
It seems that there are conservatives who comment here that are quite extreme. Thank Goodness that I don't see this kind of bigotry in my church, my religion and my social circle, which consists of people from the left, the right and the middle. All I can say is, if the conservatives that inhabit this blog's comments section are representative of what conservatism is now, we don't have a chance of winning another national election anytime soon. Enjoy your unChristian bigotry and ignorance.
WHOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!
That was the point sailing right by the liberal Episcopalian!
Anglelyne:
I did not realize you were not a Christian.
That probably accounts for the risible ignorance of the history of Christianity expressed so pathetically in the quote from your post I called out to Linda. In the future, you might consider the possibility that total ignorance is not the best platform from which to launch persuasive arguments.
I did not, however, conclude anything at all about you personally from your post. Other than that you are a bear of little brain.
A Methodist minister was trying convince a man he knew to come to church. The man said that he didn't have any good clothes to wear and would be embarrassed to show up in what he had. (BTW, this is not a problem today. Almost no body wears decent clothes to church anymore) The minister got some donations from his flock and bought the man a new suit. The next Sunday, he still did not show up. The minister asked him why. The man said, "With a new suit, I felt so prosperous that I went to the Episcopal Church."
Linda, The Episcopal Church has long been seen as an upper-class WASP church. The other denomination's disparagement of Episcopalians is mostly class based sniping. It long predates the perceived takeover of you church by the progressive homosexual faction.
Luke 10:25-37.
My diagnosis? Snoot full.
bbkingfish,
What did Angelyne get wrong, specifically? Various Christian denominations have not only been calling each other "UnChristian," for centuries but have been proving their antipathy towards one another by merrily slaughtering each other for centuries? Or were you not paying attention during the 30 Years War section in your history class or, say, anything at all about Irish History since the 1600s?
Were the Puritans just nice turkey-eating people to you?
How many Episcopalians does it take to change a light bulb?
A: CHANGE!?!?! My grandmother DONATED that light bulb!
..mysterious ways.
I read this great comment on another site:
What is certain is this was a terrible accident, but a true act of atonement would have been to call 911 then sit quietly at the roadside with this man - take his hand, cradle his head and put your life vocation into action and be with him when he took his last breath - Who better than a person of faith to help make that transition from here to the afterlife - Instead, she failed on every level - A hit and run by a member of the clergy is more than a dereliction of duty, it's a professional crisis of conscience.
Protestantism. Not even once.
She deserves prison time. You don't hit and run - the 'shock' excuse is bs. As someone who was on the receiving end of a hit and run 10 years ago (I was in a car, thank God), I have ZERO sympathy for her. Not to mention, as a BISHOP she should be held to higher moral standards. 2nd degree murder minimum.
She is a bishop, so she was expected to have stayed back and even took the victim to hospital herself.
I agree that she returned back, as she felt she could be identified. But bishops are also human and humans tend to get scared, but if she had stayed back, she would have created a better example not only for her church but also the entire community.
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