June 8, 2014

"Rape is a special kind of cruelty in that it transforms the life-giving act into an act of torture."

"To suffer the crime and yet cherish the life is an act of transcendence, a perfection of generosity rarely if ever equaled by the merely human."

ADDED: You might think anyone who made it out of the womb alive has got to support her mother's decision not to have an abortion (like Miss Pennsylvania, Valerie Gatto, who is the product of a rape) but here's an essay by Lynn Beisner from 2012: "I wish my mother had aborted me/This is no 'I wish I'd never been born' howl of angst. I love my mother, and having an abortion would have given her a better life."

34 comments:

jimbino said...

Encouraging birth of the rape-child is in keeping with the Roman Catholic doctrine of caring for all humans from conception to birth and not so much afterward.

Seeing Red said...

Who knew all those Wymym Studies teachers were products of rape? Or is it rape-rape?

Renee said...

It is one of the most difficult positions to defend.

Æthelflæd said...

"My own view is that those in the pro-life camp who wish to carve out legal exceptions for cases of rape are undermining their own position."

Yes. Asking the child to suffer for the sins of the father is completely amoral.

DanK said...

jimbino,

You may not agree with Catholics, but they've put a lot of effort into orphanages, elementary schools, high schools, colleges, and hospitals. Don't all of those seek to serve humans after birth?

rhhardin said...

It's an "orgy of horrible burdens" story.

DanK said...

jimbino,

I'm okay with you not liking or agreeing with Catholics. But it seems to me that they've built orphanages, elementary schools, high schools, colleges, and hospitals for use by humans after birth.

Drago said...

jimbino said...
Encouraging birth of the rape-child is in keeping with the Roman Catholic doctrine of caring for all humans from conception to birth and not so much afterward.

Yes because there is no evidence, at all, of any charitable or humanitarian missions carried out by any western Christian (with Roman-Catholic subset) organization that focus on the well being of children.

None at all.

Nope.

Trust jimbino on this.

The jimbino's of the world are still apparently very very upset that the Mao model of societal organization and leadership has not proved quite so "successful" or quite so "humanitarian".

It was so much easier being a lefty during the heady days of the 60's.

Saint Croix said...

A Republican running for the United States Senate, Richard Mourdock, made a comment about abortion and rape. “I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God. And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

Richard Mourdock is not a bad person. He believes that life begins at conception, and he’s trying to wrap his head around that idea, and what a rape victim should do. And so Mourdock relies on his religious faith and tries to see the miracle of life.

But of course people are appalled, as he would apparently deny emergency contraception to a rape victim.

Religious people often try to find the grace to accept atrocities, and respond with love and forgiveness. Christianity, after all, celebrates the day Jesus of Nazareth was nailed to a cross, suffered horrible pains, and died in a brutal state execution. Christians refer to this day as Good Friday. The Christian emphasis on love and forgiveness can seem paradoxical to people, yet it can also be quite powerful.

Christian theology, properly understood, is about love. But of course the state cannot mandate love. Christians are required to love our enemies. Imagine a Christian theocracy that required us to love our rapist, forgive our rapist, or accept our rape as a reality that we cannot resist. Such a theocracy would be a nightmare for our society, inspiring hate and anger in all of us. This is why we have an establishment clause. The Christian instruction to love our enemies is beautiful and beguiling and amazing. But we have to be free. If Christian love is mandated by the state, it is not Christian love. “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.”

Mourdock’s comment has a deeply theological component, but he is also making some factual, scientific assumptions that religious people might question. Does a baby’s life begin at conception? Or is it more accurate to say that the human body starts to come into being at conception?

This is not to deny the miracle of pregnancy, or how amazing the human zygote is. It’s merely to deny that it’s a homicide to terminate one. It’s not actually killing a baby, under any of the death statutes in all 50 states.

So we don’t actually have to reach the hard question of whether a rape victim has a right to kill her unborn baby. Very early abortions do not qualify as a homicide at all. Indeed, rape victims can take emergency contraception and avoid an abortion, since pregnancy is not simultaneous with ejaculation. Conception does not happen right away. It can happen hours after ejaculation, or five days later.

Anglelyne said...

Drago: The jimbino's of the world are still apparently very very upset that the Mao model of societal organization and leadership has not proved quite so "successful" or quite so "humanitarian".

It was so much easier being a lefty during the heady days of the 60's.


Point of information - jimbino is a retarded libertarian sperg, not a retarded lefty.

Carl Pham said...

You know what's a "special kind of torture?" Having your eyes put out by hot pokers. Being forced to watch your entire family be shot, perhaps having their eyes put out first. Being hung by an incompetent hangman. Being born with AIDS in Africa, with no hope of treatment. Having your arm be trapped by a boulder and having to cut it off with your pocket knife to survive.

That's not to say that being raped doesn't well and truly suck, but...Great Ghu, nobody can talk herself into feeling like Christ on the Cross, bearing all the world's sorrows, howsoever large or small the wound, like a woman.

Darleen said...

Yes because there is no evidence, at all, of any charitable or humanitarian missions carried out by any western Christian (with Roman-Catholic subset) organization that focus on the well being of children.

Drago,

For the Leftcultist, unless the help comes from The State, it doesn't count - indeed, it doesn't really exist.

Facts & reality have no affect on the invincibly ignorant.

jr565 said...

With all respect, she wasn't the one giving her mother problems it was the rapist. Why should she think her life should have been forfeited for the crime of another?
What her mother suffered through was terrible, but the love of a daughter should have seen her through, especially knowing that coming from such a hardship was her daughter.

ken in sc said...

I observed that house lizards in the Philippines reproduce by rape. They look like sand colored alligators about 1.5 inches long. The males chase down the females and grab them by the throat. Then they forcibly have sex and the females' toe nails grow bright red while this is going on. Later, they leave M&M sized eggs around the house. People put up with them because they eat mosquitoes.

Jason said...

It's one of the most difficult positions to defend.

No it's not.

It's quite easy.

Life is sacred. Period. Stick to your guns.

It only gets hard when you try compromising with shitheads.

jr565 said...


To suffer the crime and yet cherish the life is an act of transcendence, a perfection of generosity rarely if ever equaled by the merely human.

Rarely if ever equaled by the merely human? Hardly. Think of the phrase a cloud has a silver lining. There are countless stories of people who go through adversity only to find something great coming from that adversity.
For example the daughter wishes she had never been born while the mother may think the best thing that happened in her life was her daughter.

n.n said...

Beisner had no voice from conception until some time following birth. There is a consensus among civilized men and women that we err on the side of life, not death.

In any case, Beisner does not have standing to advance suicide by abortion/murder for anyone but herself. If it was possible, she could have offered consent for a suicide/abortion/murder; but, any agreement entered into between herself and her mother would be closed, and the terms are not generally applicable.

That said, her mother did have a right to nullify obligations and delegate responsibility for the welfare of her [wholly innocent] child through adoption. She did not have a right to commit abortion/murder and she did not have a right to abandon her child. The only decent choice was adoption or care for her child. She did have a choice.

Saint Croix:

Human life evolves from conception to death. A notable state in our evolution is the emergence of consciousness, which cannot be objectively determined (other than conception as a lower limit); but, a reasonable approximation correlates with brain activity.

If there is any window where a life can be justifiably (by virtue of biology and theology) terminated, then it occurs between conception and the emergence of consciousness. The current standard for abortion/murder is an extended period from conception to around birth, where it is legal to commit premeditated murder without cause or due process. The state's sponsorship exacerbates the severity of this gross violation of a fundamental human right to life.

n.n said...

jr565:

What doesn't break us makes us stronger. I consider this an axiom, but perhaps there is an exception which I have failed to consider. I suppose there could be a perpetual state of agony; but, that would probably qualify as a break.

n.n said...

Saint Croix:

Emergency contraception is a good choice. For this option to be viable, the culture needs to encourage women to come forward. In order to mitigate the risk of false statements, this process should be accompanied by identifying the rapist, and confirming that a rape did indeed occur. The man should be held liable, but so too should the woman.

That said, preventing conception seems to be a generally applicable choice, which is not morally restricted to rape victims.

Anyway, I think there is much to be discussed on this topic, and the pedestrian, and even fraudulent, statements which justify the current standard need to be closely and publicly scrutinized.

n.n said...

Jason:

Human life can be safely assumed to have intrinsic value. The question that pro-abortion/choice advocates have failed to answer is: When and by whose choice does a human life acquire value? Their standard is arbitrary and capricious.

Alex said...

Carl... typical Rethuglican. How did that justifying rape stuff work for Todd Akin?

Fen said...

"You might think anyone who made it out of the womb alive has got to support her mother's decision not to have an abortion (like Miss Pennsylvania, Valerie Gatto, who is the product of a rape) but -"

but she's full of shit. I wish I had never been alive so my mother could have a higher quality of life? Yah right. Just like those people who "wish" we could all pay more taxes, but never check the box that allows them to do so.

Can't believe you fell for that drek. "I love abortion so much I wish I hadn't been born". Sure.

n.n said...

Some advice to Ms. Beisner: Do not insult your mother's integrity and courage. Honor your mother because she made a choice, a hard choice, the right choice, and respected your right to life. Honor your mother because she cared for you. Honor your mother because she raised you. Honor your mother because she did have a choice. Honor your mother when she is old; when she is sick; and when she is depressed. Honor your mother when she is young; when she is healthy; and when she is gay. Don't deny her the honor she deserves by dreaming of your suicide/abortion/murder.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
I wish I had never been alive so my mother could have a higher quality of life?

she can always take out a life insurance policy, off herself and then give the money to her mom so she has a better standard of living.
Sometimes you really wish there were a way to give people exactly what they wish for. What she needs is an intervention from Clarence the angel to show her what life would be like without her. But that won't happen.
The main point though is that she can't wish that her mom had aborted her without her mom not actually going through with it. She wants to talk about her autonomy? She wouldn't have it if her mom wasn't pro life when it came to her pregnancy.
So, she should respect her moms wishes and be grateful she made the right choice.

The Godfather said...

Well, as I write this the most recent post is Fen's at 8:16 pm, who says one of the things I was going to say.

The other thing is, here's the basis for a meeting of the minds between the "choice" crowd and the pro-life crowd. We pro-lifers believe that there are two people involved in the abortion decision: the mother and the unborn child. Lynn Beisner says that the unborn child might support being aborted. So how about a law that allows an abortion when both the mother and the unborn child "choose" it? There's a bit of a technical problem in that even a viable fetus isn't able to give informed consent to being killed, but the solution is obvious: We wait until the child is born and reaches the age of majority (18 in the US these days), and then she/he gets to choose whether she/he will live or die. If she/he makes the Beisner choice, she/he will be executed in the most humane possible way.

Do we have a deal? Or a basis for further discussion?

Alex said...

Yeah but was it rape rape? Whoopi needs to know.

Krumhorn said...

I wish she had aborted me because I love her and want what is best for her.

This would be a very good time to invoke Ann's fabled skepticism with respect to what people profess they believe.

- Krumhorn

rcommal said...

You know what's a "special kind of torture?" Having your eyes put out by hot pokers. Being forced to watch your entire family be shot, perhaps having their eyes put out first. Being hung by an incompetent hangman. Being born with AIDS in Africa, with no hope of treatment. Having your arm be trapped by a boulder and having to cut it off with your pocket knife to survive.

That's not to say that being raped doesn't well and truly suck, but...Great Ghu, nobody can talk herself into feeling like Christ on the Cross, bearing all the world's sorrows, howsoever large or small the wound, like a woman.


How odd is this comment. Is the commenter meaning to imply that the itemized list of terrible things in the first paragraph don't happen to women also? If not, what's the purpose of the second paragraph?

[Please note that rape is not included in the first paragraph. Perhaps it belongs nowhere, in the commenter's POV?

As I said: Odd.

Michael said...

"Encouraging birth of the rape-child is in keeping with the Roman Catholic doctrine of caring for all humans from conception to birth and not so much afterward."

I'll pass that on to my sister who works for Catholic Relief Services when she gets back from training health workers in Sierra Leone.

Michael said...

"Encouraging birth of the rape-child is in keeping with the Roman Catholic doctrine of caring for all humans from conception to birth and not so much afterward."

I'll pass that on to my sister who works for Catholic Relief Services when she gets back from training health workers in Sierra Leone.

Doug said...

It's only a tough position to defend if you give cede legitimacy to those who place women's rights above human rights.

southcentralpa said...

How low does your self-esteem have to be to maintain that you did not enrich the life of your parents?

rcommal said...

How low does your self-esteem have to be to maintain that you did not enrich the life of your parents?

Think about that comment, I say. *Really* think about it.

To my way of thinking, it was put in terms not just generalized, but also unthinking.

Also, it's laugh-out-loud funny.

rcommal said...

How low does your self-esteem have to be to maintain that you did not enrich the life of your parents?

Trolling artistry, something I normally don't bother to point out.

Yuck + ick.