Most Sherpas work on a day-on, day-off rotation, and can make a dozen or more round trips through the icefall over the course of a 10-week season. Most clients pass through it twice or three times at most....
For bearing such risk, a typical climbing Sherpa can expect to bring home approximately $3,000 to $6,000 at the end of the season....
April 20, 2014
The economics of Everest.
"The math simply doesn’t work out in the Sherpas’ favor...."
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57 comments:
I have read from multiple sources that the Sherpas were moving earlier on the mountain than normal because of the NBC/Discocovery Channel winged flyer guy doing his thing for a live show. I notice no mention that 5 of the Sherpas that died were part of that support team.
Can't criticize NBC NYT?
Sherpas, the true mountaineers on Everest.
The rest of the people walk along prepared paths to prepared camps, paying their dollars to stand on Sherpa shoulders to check their little box in life.
How can you evaluate this without knowing what, say, $1,000 would buy there?
What are the Sherpas' other options?
I'm unsympathetic to the rich people who pay for these ventures, but they are only able to do it because the Sherpas take on this work and price the work they way they do.
What is the alternative? Forbid climbing Everest? That sounds good to me, from over here in the United States, where: 1. I'm not impressed by people who climb Everest at this point in history. It's been done. 2. It's disgusting that Everest is now covered in trash and dead bodies. Leave the mountain alone. 3. I understand the sympathy for for the locals and their money-making enterprise, and that seems to be why we aren't more hostile to the climbing of Everest.
So, I guess another solution is to jack up the price much much higher so fewer people do it and the Sherpas get paid more for there work.
That doesn't seem to be something that we can do from the United States, so what I see as possible from this end is: Shame those who climb, deprive them of admiration for their stunt. Discourage the climbers from going.
But that wouldn't bring more money to the Sherpas. It looks like the Sherpas are dependent on these despicable travelers...
"a typical climbing Sherpa can expect to bring home approximately $3,000 to $6,000 at the end of the season"
1. After tax income, right?
2. The work is for 10-weeks, working alternate days, so 35 days.
3. They are doing something that other people pay to be able to do.
4. If we go on an adventure vacation, don't we expect the guide to take risks to protect us from risks? Isn't that why we pay for something that is a job for somebody else?
So, I guess another solution is to jack up the price much much higher so fewer people do it and the Sherpas get paid more for there work.
Getting paid more per climb but having fewer climbs doesn't necessarily put more in the Sherpa's pockets.
I have no problem believing the Sherpas are smart enough to price their services to optimize their income.
I'd just like to see them get more respect from the climbers. They do the work and the people who pay them feel all self-accomplished.
Ann I couldn't agree more about how rich people are willing to risk the lives of the 'little people' to satisfy their thirst for a little adventure in their pampered, self absorbed lives. Like Bullfighters, the Sherpas risk their lives for the amusement of the well-heeled. Though I don't wish economic harm to them the money and time of the climbers could be so much better spent on useful pursuits.
But, this is the way it has always been, nothing is new under the sun.
HAPPY EASTER!!
Forbid climbing Everest? That sounds good to me,
Typical fucking Lefty.
Have a personal opinion about something you know nothing about and then demand that people behave the way you want them to.
Why not just leave them the fuck alone?
Leave the mountain alone.
The mountain is a pile of rock...it doesn't give a shit.
So, I guess another solution is to jack up the price much much higher so fewer people do it
Ah..now we get to the real problem....the Hoi Polloi are screwing things up for our betters.
If you really want to help the Sherpas, you don't make it more expensive, you make it cheaper and safer and provide even more work for the Sherpas. Of course then you have the problem of dealing with the little people.
I was in Nepal with Sherpa guides circa 1980. They had the highest status in the country and were very well-off. Probably still are.
Cry for the Hindu porterswho pack in everyone's gear on their backs and get no glory. When I was there, most were barefoot.
Shut It Down!
Free the Sherpas!
Call Rev. Snitch!
It is actually a high income in Nepal.
http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?&loctype=1&loc=151
Everest doesn't care who or what climbs it. It doesn't care if it's strewn with trash and bodies. The Sherpas are happy to work for their pay, it is probably quite lucrative compared to their other options.
And I don't care if you climbed Everest. I won't admire you for it. I don't think it's an accomplishment. If you told me you climbed Everest, I might not even remember it later.
2. It's disgusting that Everest is now covered in trash and dead bodies. Leave the mountain alone.
The mountain doesn't care. Gaia doesn't love you.
Anyone want to bet that the families of the Everest guides have a higher standard of living than the people that live around them? The Sherpa aren't stupid, just ignorant. They know the risks and choose to do it anyway. Just as coal miners do. All intervention by Western Educated Elites can do is fuck things up for them.
According to the World Bank, Gross National Income (GNI)per capita in 2012 was $1470.
So in context, a Sherpa making $5-10k in a climbing season is earning at the upper levels for his country.
And I don't care if you climbed Everest. I won't admire you for it. I don't think it's an accomplishment. If you told me you climbed Everest, I might not even remember it later.
I feel the same way. Everest? Meh. won't be long there'll be a Starbucks at base camp.
The first guy to make the climb, Sir Edmund Hillary, now that guy can claim all the glory. Everybody else are just poseurs.
"So in context, a Sherpa making $5-10k in a climbing season is earning at the upper levels for his country."
For 10 weeks of work with every other day off.
"The first guy to make the climb, Sir Edmund Hillary, now that guy can claim all the glory."
All? What about the Sherpa who went with him?
I look upon people who climb Everest like I do people who surf giant waves. Bemusement mainly. intellectually, I would never do such activities...the risks are just too high. Emotionally, I get it. there are always going to be people who live on the edge. The one that blows me away right now is flying suits. Those guys are nuts.
Sorun said...
"I was in Nepal with Sherpa guides circa 1980. They had the highest status in the country and were very well-off. Probably still are."
Good. Before we judge the situation, it is good to hear from someone who has been there. Because they are poor, we tend to view third world people as victims rather than the brave proud people who they are. Perhaps the Sherpas are avid mountaineers who enjoy the climbs as much as the tourists who pay them. Many people probably depend on the tourist trade to survive. The article is probably correct, the Sherpas themselves need to organize to push for higher wages.
For 10 weeks of work with every other day off.
More than likely he returns to his village and his regular work the rest of the year.
What about the Hillary that was named after Sir Edmund? She deserves some glory!
What about Sir Edmund's namesake? She deserves some glory!
Sooner or later the deep seated beliefs reveal themselves. The need to scold, to control, to judge, to condemn. So, climbers are "pampered", climbing the mountain has "been done", the climbs are made on the backs of poor people, underpaid poor people. Stop all these people accomplishing things. Right now. The mountain groans under their weight, leave the mountain alone.
And what great things, hard things have you/we done? Or is this just another example of the academic belief that the professor could be a mogul if they really wanted to be, the armchair critic could climb Everest if they wanted, run a marathon if they felt like it.
This is the most messed up topic ever on your blog.
1. You're all so "If you climbed Everest, you didn't make it, someone else did it" = you show Obamavoter mentality. Or maybe you're just envious
2. $3000-$6000 for 10 weeks work with 40 weeks vacation in Nepal is actually quite good lifestyle.
3. What's wrong with risking your life for money???
4. Does your envy of people climbing Everest extends to other mountains? How do people climb them if there are no Sherpas around?
5. Does your envy of people having fun extend to e.g. running the marathon? One guy did it quite a lot of time ago, have you heard?
Ann, why don't you do a post about the high time for men to stop climbing Madonna? Someone has done it already, don't they know?
Sounds like Sherpas make about $1,000/day. That is good pay anywhere in the world. How many lawyers make that much in the USA?
Sorun, I seem to remember from an old (back in the 60s) that the Sherpas went barefoot in the snow.
I may be misremembering. Perhaps it was the Hindu porters. Can you elucidate?
Let's also keep in mind that Hilary! Clinton, our next president, was named after Sir Edmund Hilary.
(Totally irrelevant to the thread but irrelevancy has never stopped Hilary! or her muppets before)
John Henry
And an inordinate proportion of those deaths have befallen Sherpas, simply because more of them make more trips through the icefall than do most of their Western employers.”
These reporters fail to comprehend the other more important part of the equation.
Yes,`any given Sherpa makes 5-10 times as many trips up the hill as your average eco-tourist
the part they miss is that of course there would be perhaps 20 little brown brothers on the hill at any given time as eco-tourists. So with alternate days off, perhaps 1 to 40 is the tourist/sherpa ratio
needless to say, sherpa losses will be higher.
Of course, your average sherpa is more proficient than an eco-tourist, thus reducing his risk, on the other hand, they have to hike in less than perfect conditions, while the tourists wait it out, and the sherpas are always loaded, or breaking trail, (establishing rope lines)
In the deadliest day in Mount Everest's history, a Friday avalanche has killed 13 Sherpa guides and left three missing.
It really is "The World of Commander McBragg"
"I was making the climb alone, except for 'bearers' to carry supplies and weapons... and then it happened, an avalanche of snow... the snow completely covered my 'bearers'".
"I seem to remember from an old (back in the 60s) that the Sherpas went barefoot in the snow."
I don't know about the 60s, but Sherpas wear mountaineering clothing and boots. They acquire clients' gear once the climb is over. Free high-end clothing is another of their benefits.
Ann Althouse said...
"So in context, a Sherpa making $5-10k in a climbing season is earning at the upper levels for his country."
For 10 weeks of work with every other day off.
That's Elizabeth Warren teaching one course at Harvard Law School money.
I started to comment but see that Althouse has done my job completely at 7:30.
Despicable indeed.
Let's also keep in mind that Hilary! Clinton, our next president, was named after Sir Edmund Hilary.
Edmund Hillary was unknown outside climbing circles until 1953. Hillary Rodham was born in 1947. You were saying?
Peter
The first guy to make the climb, Sir Edmund Hillary, now that guy can claim all the glory."
All? What about the Sherpa who went with him?
Tenzing Norgay, who became a lifelong friend of Hillary and was a world figure in his own right. Norgay was one of the greatest mountaineers in history, and widely honored. A genuinely charismatic man.
Hey, here's an idea, lets build a SKYRIDE to the top of Everest so EVERYONE has an equal chance to enjoy frostbite and oxygen deprivation! it will also save the Sherpas! So what's not to like?
Egalitarianism uber alles!
Fascinating article on the costs (and complex government approvals and logistics) involved in climbing Everest:
http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2014/01/06/everest-2014-the-cost-to-climb-everest/
Sorry. I have to figure out how to post a link properly.
Ann Althouse said...
"The first guy to make the climb, Sir Edmund Hillary, now that guy can claim all the glory."
All? What about the Sherpa who went with him?
Tenzing Norgay? (didn't even know his name, did you)
Yeah I'm pretty sure he went to get paid, not set a record.
Ooops. David covered it for me. I didn't know that David.
"Tenzing Norgay? (didn't even know his name, did you)."
Yes.
"Tenzing Norgay? (didn't even know his name, did you) Yeah I'm pretty sure he went to get paid, not set a record"
Other Sherpas who only do things to get paid (Wikipedia):
"Two Sherpas, Pemba Dorjie and Lhakpa Gelu, competed to see who could climb Everest from base camp the fastest. On 23 May 2003, Dorjie summited in 12 hours and 46 minutes. Three days later, Gelu beat his record by two hours, summiting in 10 hours 46 minutes. On 21 May 2004, Dorjie again improved the record by more than two hours with a total time of 8 hours and 10 minutes."
"Lakpa Tsheri Sherpa is one half of a Nepali duo that was voted 'People's Choice Adventurers of the Year 2012'. In April 2011, Lakpa Tsheri and Sano Babu Sunuwar made the 'Ultimate Descent': a three-month journey in which they climbed Chhomolangma (Nepali: Sagarmatha, English: Everest), then paraglided down the mountain and proceeded to kayak through Nepal and India until they reached the Indian Ocean."
Most accomplished climbers I know are disgusted with the commercialization and overcrowding of Everest ascents. On the other hand, a former co-worker has guided on Everest for the past 12 years or so. I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to say who should do what.
Seems to me that most guided ascents of the mountain are purely for the ego gratification of the client...the worst reason to climb mountains. If those clients really wanted to test their abilities without needing to impress others, there are limitless opportunities on other mountains far more difficult. Reaching the top as a client only shows your aerobic conditioning, which is impressive, but not any real mountaineering skills.
My one trip to the Khumbu region in 2012 was an eye opener due to the wonderful Sherpa culture. The most gracious people I have ever met. And the Nepalese porters work harder than anyone, with no recognition.
Instead of an article bemoaning the Sherpa deaths, imagine an alternative.
Use MI-38 helicopters to replace 90% of the Sherpas by lifting all the gear to the 23,000 ft level.
The NYT could then do a story on all the displaced Sherpa workers by evil Western (Russian) technology. :)
Sorun
Well good for them. I see the money they earn gives them the time and resources to those things.
Getting paid to do what they do doesn't make their work any less noble. Just more routine. I admire what they do a lot more than the Hillary wannabes who they must schlep up and down the mountain.
Lookit. If you have the money and wherewithal to do it then god bless ya. Just don't make out like you made some sort of noble sacrifice when you and your friends leave your frozen body parts or carcases up there. No body forces people to do that shit. Knock yerself out. I'll have another beer.
Seems to me the point of the article has been missed: Mt. Everest is RACIST!
The New York Times does not understand economics. The value of capital and the requirements of labor are commensurate to the cost-of-living. Not everyone lives in Manhattan. Also, as others have noted, there are intangible assets, which vary between cultures.
I am looking forward to the day that there are covered walkways and escalators to the top of Mt Everest.
People dying to get to the top was the cost of it being new. It's not new anymore.
They need to install piped in oxygen all the way to the top so people can top off their oxygen bottles. They need bridges and paving. They need shelter buildings.
Why not? A lot of money goes there (but apparently not enough goes to the local economy).
When Hillary and Norgay became the first to reach the summit and return alive, many wanted to know which man arrived there first. To their deaths Norgay and Hillary maintained that they arrived together, which had been their plan. Since then, various persons (including descendants of each climber) have attempted to prove that one or the other reached the summit first. All they actually proved was that Norgay and Hillary were better men than they were.
"Hillary Rodham was born in 1947. You were saying?"
--Peter
Clinton famously claimed that she was named for Edmund Hillary,(who was almost completely unknown at the time of her birth) which like most of her life story was obviously complete BS. So, When Hillary!!!! is our next president, she will get to make that claim again. Hey faking it worked for Liz Warren, it should work just as well for Hillary!!! as she is a democrat too.
Most accomplished climbers I know are disgusted with the commercialization and overcrowding of Everest ascents.
Most accomplished surfers I know are disgusted with the commercialization and overcrowding of surfer beaches.
Most accomplished (insert sportsman) I know are disgusted with the commercialization and overcrowding of (insert sports sites).
Most accomplished blog commenters I know are disgusted with the commercialization and overcrowding of blog comment threads.
Michael said...And what great things, hard things have you/we done? Or is this just another example of the academic belief that the professor could be a mogul if they really wanted to be, the armchair critic could climb Everest if they wanted, run a marathon if they felt like it.
I refute you thus:
Don’t you ever say that again about your fathers, because they are not cowards. You think I am brave because I carry a gun; well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton. It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there’s nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery.
--Charles Bronson, The Magnificent Seven
Hey, thanks Tim Maguire @6:54 PM
I hadn't heard that before. Nice.
Paminwi is right: they were pushed to help NBC meet a deadline despite dangerous conditions.
Citing poverty to justify making them risk their lives is not the answer; the answer was for NBC to listen to the head Sherpa who saw the conditions were not good. Luckily for NBC, he is dead, and only one survivor managed to get quoted by a reporters saying the ice was dangerous.
As for poverty: one uncovered story is that Americans view Nepal as "Shangri la", but don't see the hundreds of thousands who "vote with their feet" to work in India and other more affluent countries.
One wonders how many Sherpas will use their salaries to educate their sons so they don't have to risk their lives as guides...
Tim mcguire
Nice quote and true. But not in any way a refutation. The one does not obviate the other. Unless you think the statement means the brave responsible man can mock the battlefield hero.
There's a dichotomy, here, as has already been mentioned (mountaineers and surfers).
While 'it has been done', a lot of people do these things for the challenge - fighting so-called intellectuals in a blog isn't really a challenge for some - hasn't it already been done, and we are rehashing old ideas (flogging the dead horse)?
There's a personal heroism in doing such things - yes, it's easier (sic) today than yesteryear, but, as demonstrated here, there is a hazard nonetheless.
It is unfortunate that these things happen, but it is life, and maybe there will be incrementally better management in how such feats are achieved - 'banning' things like this will simply make it more dangerous for all involved.
"The first guy to make the climb, Sir Edmund Hillary, now that guy can claim all the glory." All? What about the Sherpa who went with him?
Every account I ever read (even very old ones) identified the first guys to summit Everest as Sir Edmund Hillary and Sherpa Tenzing The summit photos are selfies that show both of them.
What is the alternative? Forbid climbing Everest?
Climbing Everest has become a (dangerous) circus. Erik Weihenmayer, who is blind, "climbed" everest. Mark Inglis, who has no legs, "climbed" Everest. Theirs are considered motivational stories; I think they're absurd. I don't doubt these guys endured some hardship and risk to reach the summit, but, can they truly be said to have "climbed" Everest? (Didn't those who guided them endure more hardship and risk than the handicapped climbers?)
Oh well. I'm waiting for the cable car, and the summit restaurant.
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