September 23, 2013

"That's an article of faith about truth, not truth."

"It's a belief that supervenes truth."


tim in vermont said...
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tim in vermont said...

BTW, I think that Jefferson is tipping his hand that these are beliefs, not "Truths" by allowing that "We hold these truths to be self evident."

He couldn't say "We are supposing these beliefs to be the truth for the purposes of our founding documents," because that would weaken the premises he is trying to bootsrap. They are not so much truths as beliefs held to be axiomatic to the formation of the republic to come. From within that that context, they are truths.

Jim said...

All truth is based on faith. An equivalent way of saying this is that all logical systems have unprovable assumptions, and science is not an exception.

Lem said...

"That's an article of faith about truth, not truth."

No Patience...

traditionalguy said...

This is where we need to re-listen to Bill Bryson's "A Short History of Nearly Everything."

pduggie said...

"hey are not so much truths as beliefs held to be axiomatic to the formation of the republic to come."

an axioatic belief is a true belief, by definition.

The statement proposes that faith is NOT required faith at all. I require faith to beleive that Jesus is risen from the dead. I do not need faith to know that the sun rises tomorrow, or that a finite whole is greater than, or equal to, any of its parts. The former is naturally evidence and the latter is self-evident. There is evidence for the truth.

more self evident truth

The means ought to be proportioned to the end.

Every power ought to be commensurate with its object.

There ought to be no limitation of a power destined to effect a purpose which is itself incapable of limitation.

Wasn't Jefferson's first draft "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable"

mtrobertsattorney said...

If A is equal to B and B is equal to C, then A is equal to C. This is believed to be true because it is self-evident, i.e., a kind of inner compulsion to believe that carries with it the light of truth.

I think a distinction can be made between a belief that is accepted on faith, and a belief that is self-evident.

A belief based on faith is accepted on the basis of trust whereas a self-evident belief does not involve trust.

jls said...

Jefferson's statement is an axiom that supervenes or lays the predicate for a governing philosophy derived from a reasoned truth system.

These axioms or self evident truths stands apart from articles of faith. Faith suggests a belief without the evidence of proof. "Self evident" asserts that the truth is contained in the thing itself and stands without the need for extra proof.

With this statement: "That's an article of faith about truth, not truth." I think you mean: That's a basic belief about the nature of reality and not a statement of absolute truth.

Gahrie said...

I do not need to prove to you that water is wet, or fire hot. These truths are self-evident.

That man is created equal, with a right to life, liberty and property (or the pursuit of happiness for you still obsessed with slavery) is also self-evident.