June 25, 2013

"We have no relation to Mr. Snowden, his relations with the American justice or his travel around the world."

"He chooses his route himself, and we have learned about it from the media," said Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov.
"We consider the attempts to accuse Russia of violation of U.S. laws and even some sort of conspiracy, which on top of all that are accompanied by threats, as absolutely ungrounded and unacceptable," Lavrov said. "There are no legal grounds for such conduct of U.S. officials, and we proceed from that."
I think back to what Michael Haz wrote in the comments to yesterday's Edward Snowden post:
Mr. Snowden, his computers and everything stored in his brain are now in possession of the KGB. He will now fully understand the meaning of the word 'disappeared'.

The press, the Department of State and Barack Obama have all been played for the rubes they are by Vladimir Putin. And there is nothing any of them can do about it. The amateurs have met the pro, and the pro won, then erased all tracks.
Meanwhile, 20 or so reporters were thrown way off the track as they happily enclosed themselves in a Snowdenless, Cuba-bound metal tube for 12 hours. What newsless meditations did they hammer out for publication? The New Yorker's John Cassidy lambasted the on-the-tube, not-in-the-tube newsmediafolk like David Gregory who, he asserts, have demonized Edward Snowden:
Snowden took classified documents from his employer, which surely broke the law. But his real crime was confirming that the intelligence agencies, despite their strenuous public denials, have been accumulating vast amounts of personal data from the American public. The puzzle is why so many media commentators continue to toe the official line. About the best explanation I’ve seen came from Josh Marshall, the founder of T.P.M., who has been one of Snowden’s critics. In a post that followed the first wave of stories, Marshall wrote, “At the end of the day, for all its faults, the U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support. I’m not a bystander to it. I’m implicated in what it does and I feel I have a responsibility and a right to a say, albeit just a minuscule one, in what it does.”
In the end, for all its faults... Marshall's going all last-paragraph-of-"1984." ("O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.") Except... Marshall never resisted.

Back to Cassidy:
I suspect that many Washington journalists, especially the types who go on Sunday talk shows, feel the way Marshall does, but perhaps don’t have his level of self-awareness. It’s not just a matter of defending the Obama Administration, although there’s probably a bit of that. 
Oh, just a tad. Probably! But...
It’s something deeper, which has to do with attitudes toward authority. Proud of their craft and good at what they do, successful journalists like to think of themselves as fiercely independent. 
Like to... but trapped on Aeroflot flight to Cuba, you start noticing your lack of independence. And those journalists who didn't get bamboozled into your lamentable predicament look so enragingly smug.
It’s not surprising that some of them share Marshall’s view of Snowden as “some young guy I’ve never heard of before who espouses a political philosophy I don’t agree with and is now seeking refuge abroad for breaking the law.”
A political philosophy I don’t agree with.... What is that? Resistance to big government? Cassidy — who says — he's "with Snowden" because he's "the underdog" — ends with "Which side are you on?" which is the title of an old union song. Here's Pete Seeger singing it. Bob Dylan repurposed it in "Desolation Row":
Praise be to Nero’s Neptune
The Titanic sails at dawn
And everybody’s shouting
“Which Side Are You On?”
Unlike the Titanic, the Aeroflot flight reached its destination uneventfully.
All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they’re quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name

73 comments:

Jeff Teal said...

Too bad the journalists couldn't have asked one of their pet dinosaurs the Old Moscow hounds what was going on.But but they know it all through the miracle of Google.Meanwhile I hope the Cheka don't snort vodka down the wrong hole laughing at us.And they really don't have to do a thang.

Mitchell the Bat said...

I assume the journalists were all issued cyanide pills, just in case.

Quaestor said...

“At the end of the day, for all its faults, the U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support. I’m not a bystander to it. I’m implicated in what it does and I feel I have a responsibility and a right to a say, albeit just a minuscule one, in what it does.”

Interesting candor. What Marshall leaves hazy is his support for "the government" is just code for Obama and the Left Ascendancy.

The American Left is just unvarnished fascism, and the tendency goes deep and wide. QED

Stick said...

Punked, Used, the Amateur can only prattle about the "environment."

Unless he planned the whole thing & is Putin's ally in crashing the US.

Jeff Teal said...

Mitchell it had to be fake cyanide pills-they wouldn't know the difference.

rhhardin said...

Landed uneventfully is a news Tom Swifty.

Jeff Teal said...

I mean they wouldn't do the Frau Goebbels thing.PETA would disown them.

Rescue Ready said...

"Learned it from the media"...where have I heard that line before? They are playing with the US.

Rescue Ready said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

"Secretary of State Hillary Clinton learned that lesson the hard way Friday when she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov ... with a gift-wrapped red button, which said "Reset" in English and "Peregruzka" in Russian.

..."We worked hard to get the right Russian word. Do you think we got it?" Clinton asked Lavrov.

"You got it wrong," Lavrov said. "This says 'peregruzka,' which means overcharged."
"

Yes, it does.

Mogget said...

When Obama is embarrassed, our stalwart guardians of freedom in the press are discomforted. And that right there tells you they're not really all that independent. The comparison with dogs has never been more apt: at the sound of their master's voice they speak, sit, heel, and roll over. And when their master is threatened, they attack. Their frustration is that Putin sees them for the the chihuahuas they really are.

FedkaTheConvict said...

Obama adviser Dan Pfeiffer:
"President Barack Obama learned the Internal Revenue Service had targeted tea party groups only "when it came out in the news""

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Larov:
""He chooses his route himself, and we have learned about it from the media"

somefeller said...

Interesting candor. What Marshall leaves hazy is his support for "the government" is just code for Obama and the Left Ascendancy. The American Left is just unvarnished fascism, and the tendency goes deep and wide. QED

Actually, Marshall was getting hit from the Left on this because of his skepticism of Snowden and he was responding to that Left criticism. If you were familiar with the discourse on this topic, you'd know that. But hey, keep on shouting Liberal Fascism. Maybe you can meet Jonah Goldberg on the rubber chicken circuit.

Anyway, the possibility that Snowden is a lawbreaker and spy isn't incompatible with the possibility that he exposed unconstitutional government actions. The question is which aspect is of greater interest to you and reasonable people can disagree on that. But I know, nuance is another one of those Liberal Fascist things

Steve Koch said...

Amazing post, so much to think about. I listened to Pete Seeger's video that Althouse posted, his banjo playing had such a distinctive, cool sound.

Don't know where Snowden will end up but Ecuador never sounded like a likely destination cuz he would be such an easy target in Ecuador.

pm317 said...

FedkaTheConvict beat me to it.

Jeff Teal said...

somefeller the saying used to be "read it and weep".For some of us old folks it is now "read it and laugh".Cause we have been through this crap before.Including the outrage of the clueless.Nuance my ass .

Saint Croix said...

"some young guy I’ve never heard of before who espouses a political philosophy I don’t agree with"

Everyone should mock Josh Marshall for not being a journalist. For not being able to understand what it means to be a journalist.

All he knows is ideology. "What's your political party?" He wants to know that first, because he has a different standard that he will apply to you.

It's a sign of a deep corruption. And of course we all have our biases. But part of your training should be to recognize your own biases and try to ground your ideas in facts, in reality, and not go off on some ideological tailspin.

The Zimmerman trial made me read about the Group of 88. These were academics who took out newspaper space to proclaim the guilt of the Duke Lacrosse players before the trial had even started.

There were no facts to support such a rush to judgment. It was pure ideology, based on skin color, gender, and hostility to athletes(!)

None of these so-called academics have suffered for their lack of judgment, or their inability to separate ideology from factual reality. Indeed, many of these bigots have advanced. A few have become deans! Apparently on the grounds that somebody likes their politics.

It's obscene.

Jeff Teal said...

Naifs who think they are geniuses.

edutcher said...

All the genius Lefty journolists on the Flight to Nowhere is just the icing on the cake.

BTW Snowden gave the Red Chinese full access to his laptops. One presumes Vald was similarly treated.

somefeller said...

Interesting candor. What Marshall leaves hazy is his support for "the government" is just code for Obama and the Left Ascendancy. The American Left is just unvarnished fascism, and the tendency goes deep and wide. QED

Actually, Marshall was getting hit from the Left on this because of his skepticism of Snowden and he was responding to that Left criticism. If you were familiar with the discourse on this topic, you'd know that. But hey, keep on shouting Liberal Fascism. Maybe you can meet Jonah Goldberg on the rubber chicken circuit.


Too bad it's the truth, no matter how hard the Baghdad Bob of Althouse wants to dismiss it.

Anyway, the possibility that Snowden is a lawbreaker and spy isn't incompatible with the possibility that he exposed unconstitutional government actions. The question is which aspect is of greater interest to you and reasonable people can disagree on that. But I know, nuance is another one of those Liberal Fascist things

Yes, it was so deeply nuanced any number of us discussed it at length last week.

It takes the Lefties a while to catch up with the obvious.

Saint Croix said...

Some confusion on whether Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. (physician) or Jr. (Supreme Court Justice) said this, but it's good.

"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

Saint Croix said...

That would be light, not heat. (Talking to myself, here).

Steve Koch said...

Liberal Fascism doesn't really make sense as a title since classic liberal philosophy is not fascist. Leftist fascism is much more accurate since American lefties aren't classic liberals in actual practise (most likely the vast majority of USA lefties are clueless about classic liberalism) but do tend toward fascism.

"Anyway, the possibility that Snowden is a lawbreaker and spy isn't incompatible with the possibility that he exposed unconstitutional government actions. The question is which aspect is of greater interest to you and reasonable people can disagree on that."

It seems obvious that the fed gov spying on Americans on a vast scale is orders of magnitude more important than Snowden. What is extremely unlikely is that somefeller can make a persuasive case that Snowden is more interesting (or important) than our gov spying on all of us.

somefeller said...

It seems obvious that the fed gov spying on Americans on a vast scale is orders of magnitude more important than Snowden. What is extremely unlikely is that somefeller can make a persuasive case that Snowden is more interesting (or important) than our gov spying on all of us.

If one assumes unconstitutional spying is occurring (big assumption and one based on very complex Fourth Amendment jurisprudence) then I'd agree that's the bigger story. So I'm not making the case you claim I'm making. But I can also see others being more concerned about the justification of the means being used here, which may include espionage and defection. Because, well, nuance and all that.

Jeff Teal said...

Steve Koch I get it.But Goldberg was using the current Left conceit that they are classical liberals to identify them.Similarly Leninist thought they were more pure Communists than Trotskyites.Or Nazis and Reds fighting on Munichs streets don't see themselves as close cousins.One of the mind widening things about Orwell was the realisation that the totalitarian and authoritarian impulse to control was so closely related.Remember Wells was a Socialist as well.As were the Fabians.

Ann Althouse said...

"I assume the journalists were all issued cyanide pills, just in case..."

Now his nurse, some local loser
She’s in charge of the cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read
“Have Mercy on His Soul”


And on Aeroflot, there's no defibrillator, only the heart-attack machine.

Saint Croix said...

Liberal Fascism doesn't really make sense as a title since classic liberal philosophy is not fascist.

It makes perfect sense because H.G. Wells was arguing that liberals need to be fascists. He was the one who coined the term, "liberal fascism."

Read Goldberg's book! It's awesome. And loaded with facts.

Jeff Teal said...

Somefeller your Fourth Amendment argument shows subservience to a wonderful authoritarian idea that black robes can tell you what is right.Law and right may not be that closely related in this case.The spying may be "legal".and wrong.Show some spine ,Man

Saint Croix said...

Notice how Snowden has betrayed his own cause by trying to avoid the punishment. He may or may not have been motivated by a pure desire to help the USA. (I think he was!)

But running away is like O.J. with the Bronco. Now he's being selfish, looking out for number 1. Most of us see running away as something criminals do. It's a sign of guilt. If you're fighting authorities who you claim are evil, you have to stand up to them. Which means you are likely to pay a price.

Most of us don't like to follow Jesus all the way, because you end up crucified by the authorities. Our normal human reaction is, "Run away! Run away!"

Christianity is so powerful, and dangerous, because its followers are not afraid. See Martin Luther King, Jr., a follower of Christ who did not run away.

By fleeing and hiding and running, Snowden severely undercuts what he did, which I insist was a very fine thing. What he's doing now? Shabby. And the media--who have a shark-like instinct and love to attack weakness--are going after him, while they leave our corrupt and evil authorities alone.

Steve Koch said...

somefeller said:

"The question is which aspect is of greater interest to you and reasonable people can disagree on that."

Please explain how a reasonable person could think that Snowden is more interesting and important than the pervasive gov spying that he revealed.

gerry said...

Obama may be blackmailing his domestic opponents using his ears at NHS, but he cannot do the same with Putin.

Steve Koch said...

Saint Croix said...
"It makes perfect sense because H.G. Wells was arguing that liberals need to be fascists. He was the one who coined the term, "liberal fascism.""

Classic liberalism existed as a philosophy prior to H.G. Wells and did not get redefined simply cuz one guy (H.G. Wells) wanted to do so. Classic liberalism is not fascist. American lefties are rarely classic liberals but they do tend toward fascism. Jonah's book is great but the title is not really accurate.

Saint Croix said...

Fedka at 6:56, that's brilliant.

How embarrassing is it that Putin is mocking our President by quoting his own lies back to him?

Ugh.

somefeller said...

Jeff Teal says:Somefeller your Fourth Amendment argument shows subservience to a wonderful authoritarian idea that black robes can tell you what is right.Law and right may not be that closely related in this case.The spying may be "legal".and wrong.Show some spine ,Man

No, it just shows that if you are going to talk about what's unconstitutional or not, you have to look at constitutional law. It's a basic concept, that both Federalist Society members and ACLU members can agree on.

somefeller said...

Steve Koch says:Please explain how a reasonable person could think that Snowden is more interesting and important than the pervasive gov spying that he revealed.

Perhaps you should ask that to someone making that claim. I am not making that claim.

Saint Croix said...

Jonah's book is great but the title is not really accurate.

It's provocative--maybe too provocative--but his point is that there are people within liberalism who think they should be more fascist. Which is to say, control the media, put critics in jail, be like China for a day, subvert elections, and kill unwanted people in order to improve society.

To say "that's not liberal!" is his point. That's why it's a good title. It creates a conflict in your mind. How can a liberal be a fascist? And his book explores that.

See also "liberal" love for the unelected branch of our government. Oh they have black robes! Shhhh, it's time to worship the people in black robes!

Quaestor said...

Strange that nobody on the Left was concerned at all about who leaked to the NYT the Bush Administration's efforts to trace Al-Qaeda's money transactions via secret access to the SWIFT database. It was non-news -- the damage was minor to an inconsequential program spawned by Right-wing paranoia about "terrorists". Now they want to go Medieval on Snowden's ass for daring to embarrass Lord Zero.

Steve Koch said...

Saint Croix said...
"Notice how Snowden has betrayed his own cause by trying to avoid the punishment. He may or may not have been motivated by a pure desire to help the USA. (I think he was!)"

Snowden would either have been killed or sentenced to prison forever if he stayed. Revealing the pervasive spying by the gov was a great contribution, no need to martyr himself.

"But running away is like O.J. with the Bronco. Now he's being selfish, looking out for number 1. Most of us see running away as something criminals do. It's a sign of guilt. If you're fighting authorities who you claim are evil, you have to stand up to them. Which means you are likely to pay a price."

You are comparing Snowden to OJ? How strange. Snowden is guilty, he would go to jail if he stayed. Have you ever gone to prison for your political actions?

"Most of us don't like to follow Jesus all the way, because you end up crucified by the authorities. Our normal human reaction is, "Run away! Run away!"

Christianity is so powerful, and dangerous, because its followers are not afraid. See Martin Luther King, Jr., a follower of Christ who did not run away."

No Christians are afraid? Seriously?

"By fleeing and hiding and running, Snowden severely undercuts what he did, which I insist was a very fine thing. What he's doing now? Shabby. And the media--who have a shark-like instinct and love to attack weakness--are going after him, while they leave our corrupt and evil authorities alone."

By running away, Snowden lived to fight another day. The media are going to defend the dems no matter what.

John said...

Pogo quoted:

"Secretary of State Hillary Clinton learned that lesson the hard way Friday when she presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov ... with a gift-wrapped red button, which said "Reset" in English and "Peregruzka" in Russian.

Under US Federal law, the button she gave him (red pushbutton, yellow background) is called an "Emergency Stop" switch and cannot be legally used for any other purpose.

It must immediately kill all power to the system. Now. Not when it cycles to the home position.

It is actually a much better metaphor as an Emergency Stop button than a reset button.

See also http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2010/04/03/#005599

Where Chris Muir gave me a shoutout.

John Henry

somefeller said...

Personally, I think Snowden is a nerd who is in way over his head who may also be a spy. It definitely looks like he broke some laws to get his story out. Some people may find that his ends don't justify his means. I don't agree with that if he did expose unconstitutional domestic spying, but that is a position based on a lot of assumptions.

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cubanbob said...

Quaestor said...
“At the end of the day, for all its faults, the U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support. I’m not a bystander to it. I’m implicated in what it does and I feel I have a responsibility and a right to a say, albeit just a minuscule one, in what it does.”

Interesting candor. What Marshall leaves hazy is his support for "the government" is just code for Obama and the Left Ascendancy."

Just a house organ who has been embarrassed for being exposed for what he is. No different than a prostitute in polite company.

Jeff Teal said...

And the black robes get the conlaw wrong all the time.And sometimes even admit it.Dred Scott anyone?ACLU,Federalist Society,SCOTUS.all lawyers.Spying has always been about ignoring the law.Believe it is not legal to steal the other guys secrets-in his own country.Grow up.SnowdenHong Kong,Putin is ahout International Power.And the government is throwing a temper tantrum.And so is the media.

traditionalguy said...

Russians are fed up with playing second fiddle to the USA, USA, USA.

And then along comes a USA President that gives away all our advantages and agrees to lead from behind, way way behind.

Putin is finally able to play the game; and he has not had this much fun since 1990. No way he is going to surrender the world leadership to Mr Pretend President now.

edutcher said...

Some nerd. If he's ever completed any kind of degree or certification program, it remains a closely guarded secret.

somefeller said...

Somefeller your Fourth Amendment argument shows subservience to a wonderful authoritarian idea that black robes can tell you what is right.Law and right may not be that closely related in this case.The spying may be "legal".and wrong.Show some spine ,Man

No, it just shows that if you are going to talk about what's unconstitutional or not, you have to look at constitutional law. It's a basic concept, that both Federalist Society members and ACLU members can agree on.


No, it just mean the Baghdad Bob of Althouse wants to limit the parameters of the debate the way AnUnreasonableTroll does. Constitutional law is what the appellate courts want it to be at any given time, but the Constitution isn't a shell game.

Nobody gives a damn what the ACLU thinks anymore and I haven't heard the Federalist Society's opinion counted for much recently.

Even here.

As creeley noted, "Most of what being liberal is about these days is feeling superior, as somefeller now demonstrates", and that's what he wants to do now.

John said...

Jeff Teal said:

But Goldberg was using the current Left conceit that they are classical liberals

No, Jeff. No, no, no.

The left has never claimed that they are classical liberals. "Classical liberal" is a term going back to the 18th century meaning, essentially, the same thing as "libertarian" today.

Very minimalist government, maximum personal liberty.

As Hayek wrote in 1943 in "The Road to Serfdom" "They have hijacked a perfectly good word [liberal-JRH]and use it to mean its almost exact opposite"

Milton Friedman also wrote about this in several of his books.

I am a liberal or, if yoou prefer, classical liberal. I am neither left nor right. I am neither conservative nor progressive. I am a free man, the dictionary definition of liberal.

I'll also answer to libertarian or minarchist.

I would also remind you that the word liberal comes from the Latin "liber" which also gives us liberty and liberate.

The left are not liberal in any sense of the word.

John Henry

Steve Koch said...

somefeller,

Maybe you could explain what this sentence that you wrote means:

"The question is which aspect is of greater interest to you and reasonable people can disagree on that."

I claim that your statement is ridiculous, that pervasive spying by the gov is obviously orders of magnitude more important and interesting than Snowden. I also add that those trying to shift the focus to Snowden away from the gov massively spying on Americans is political hacktivism.

Jeff Teal said...

Anyone ever read Von Neumanns Theory of Games?George RR Martin named his currently popular opus Game of Thrones.Just what does everyone not realize that the "Game" now being played is in its own way just as consequential as that highest of all stakes Cold War.These dilettantes and dabblers in government and media need to learn-fast.And I don't think they can.

Quaestor said...

cubanbob compelled me to re-read the Josh Marshall quote.

"[The] U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support"

Political community? What the hell is that? An honest person would write something along the lines of the U.S. military is the armed force of the nation state I identify with and the constitution I support. But that would be too near simple patriotism for the nuanced bunch to even think without equivocation.

Soldiers pledge their lives to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Not the Democratic Party nor the GOP nor Barack Hussein Obama, the Constitution. Josh Marshall and T.P.M. have got some hellacious splainin' to do.

Jeff Teal said...

John sitting on my bookshelf staring me in the face is John Berman "Terror And Liberalism."He claims to be a liberal.Who am I to gainsay his self-identification?Interesting book about liveral ideals and the clash with the Muslim Brotherhoods values by the way.

Hagar said...

The Russians are obviously greatly enjoying this opportunity to lecture the Obama administration about law and order, democracy, etc.

What if Snowden is not carrying anything but what is in his head?
No laptops, no removable harddrives, no flash memory sticks?

We only know what he has told the Guardian and what the Gov't s accusing him of, but these are people who have been telling an awful lot of lies on public television lately.

edutcher said...

According to Weekly Standard, he has 4 laptops with him.

Jeff Teal said...

Anyone ever read Von Neumanns Theory of Games?George RR Martin named his currently popular opus Game of Thrones.Just what does everyone not realize that the "Game" now being played is in its own way just as consequential as that highest of all stakes Cold War.

Kipling called it the Great Game.

Big Mike said...

"... and we have learned about it from the media."

Nice little echo of Barack Obama there.

Jeff Teal said...

ed compared to todays games Russian British contests for Central Asia seem like so much of a sideshow.

Hagar said...

Did the Weekly Standard also have a reporter on the flight o Cuba?

Hagar said...

The MSM is not defending the Obama administration; they are defending their Brave New World administration, of which Obama is just the figurehead.

n.n said...

I question his motives to reveal secret knowledge to foreign governments, but he was correct to expose our government's activities which violated its citizens' rights without cause and without permission.

edutcher said...

Jeff Teal said...

ed compared to todays games Russian British contests for Central Asia seem like so much of a sideshow.

125 years ago, it was the biggest game in town.

Writ Small said...

”I had access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all over the world. The locations of every station, we have what their missions are, and so forth.” - Edward Snowden

Let's all laugh at the hapless journalists, the hypocritical Lefties, the impotent Obama. Me? I'm expecting rain.

Jeff Teal said...

ed quite true.Modern coms and weapons have made the stakes higher.

Saint Croix said...

"[The] U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support"

Note how conditional all this is. He is not supporting the USA. It all depends on who is power.

The U.S. military is the armed force of (Obama)...a government I support.

That's the extent of his thinking. You're going against Obama! You must be stopped!

He's a fascist all the way.

John said...

Jeff Teal,

If I were to self-identify as a fish, would you say the same thing?

Who are you to gainsay my self-identification?

Words, such as liberal, have clear meanings. Using them, as progressives do, in a sense opposite to that meaning is disingenuous and misleading at best and downright fraudulent at worst.

John Henry

Hagar said...

Consider that if Snowden's motives are as he claims, his aims have been achieved with the hullabaloo created, and there is no necessity for telling any foreign governments anything more than what they can see on their TV screens.
In fact, if you were writing a movie script, all this could be arranged without him ever leaving Hawaii. Has any independent witness claimed to have actually seen him anywhere?

Jeff Teal said...

John Henry if he called himself a fish and didn't look other fish I'd be skeptical.Until I found his gills.But since other liberals have the same characteriscs s he does I go with his name for self.

Stilton Cheeseright said...

Considering what Obutthole did to Manning for making him look bad, I don't think one bit of the shine on Snowden's act is tarnished by fleeing the country. Having to flee is enough to risk. It would be insane to stand still for solitary confinement. I hope they never get him.

Anonymous said...

"He chooses his route himself, and we have learned about it from the media,"

Exactly how Obama have learned about Fast & Furious killing hundreds of Mexicans, Benghazi murders of Americans, AG's tailing of journalists, IRS targeting Tea Partiers, NSA snooping everybody on the planet... from watching CNN headlines in between golf games.

Saint Croix said...

Snowden would either have been killed or sentenced to prison forever if he stayed

He should have live-blogged his release of the documents and made the government arrest him in front of the cameras.

What the Obama administration needs is a spotlight shining on it. Make the roaches scurry!

Instead Snowden opted for secrecy and hiding and running to Commie countries. Can't you see how he undercut what he was trying to do? Do you think he's a hero now? I don't.

No Christians are afraid? Seriously?

We're instructed not to be!

Baron Zemo said...

Snowden has to end up in a country where Obama would be afraid to send a drone to kill him.

That has to be Russia or China.

Baron Zemo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Baron Zemo said...

The Russians are laughing at Obama but they have done that for a long time.

It's sad really how low we have sunk.

Andy Freeman said...

> At the end of the day, for all its faults, the U.S. military is the armed force of a political community I identify with and a government I support. I’m not a bystander to it. I’m implicated in what it does and I feel I have a responsibility and a right to a say, albeit just a minuscule one, in what it does.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/press/vanities/fallows.html

Real American journalists are supposed let American soldiers die. But, when it comes to saving a fellow journalist, they'll torture, etc. Of course, they expect the US military to save them.

mariner said...

cubanbob,
Just a house organ who has been embarrassed for being exposed ...

And we know which organ.

Anonymous said...

BTW Snowden gave the Red Chinese full access to his laptops. One presumes Vald was similarly treated.

That doesn't worry me so much.

So far it doesn't look like Snowden is a fool. We don't know what was on the laptops, but whatever was there, Snowden must have known that the countries he fled to would get that data one way or another. It's quite possible, and I would say likely, that the Good Stuff is hidden in the cloud somewhere, protected by some serious crypto.

The real problem with Snowden is that we don't know how much and how critical the information he managed to abscond with. It could be that the government isn't sure either.

Snowden could have some very high cards to play. Obama's people may be very worried.

Hagar said...

BTW Snowden gave the Red Chinese full access to his laptops. One presumes Vald was similarly treated.



"Miller touched on the four laptops Snowden was reportedly carrying with him. Intel experts have said the Chinese government likely had the opportunity to download the data on the hard drives before he fled the country."

Not a convincing citation.