There is this leak investigation of the AP, so we can’t get involved. Oh, there is an investigation of Benghazi, so we’re not responsible. The President and the executive branch need to govern on a daily basis and you can’t purchase immunity from governing....
But some institutions have a no-surprise rule, which is you need to make sure the person at the top, who is the president in this case, he is constitutionally responsible for the whole executive branch, to be told about things that are going on that are bad. And you can’t kind of say, oh, that happened last year and they’re investigating. You need to stop the bad things right away.
May 19, 2013
Bob Woodward: "I think you have to kind of step back and say what’s the theory of governing here."
"And the theory is, it seems, oh, there are investigations of the IRS so we can’t interfere."
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228 comments:
1 – 200 of 228 Newer› Newest»The administration's goal is plausible deniability, but all it seems to be managing is risible denial.
It's a little more sinister than that, I think.
Obama has never done anything but lie and cheat.
Show us any example of good character on Obama's part at any point in his life.
One has to wonder how long the Sgt. Schultz defense will work for Obama.
OED etymology:
scandal (n.)
1580s, "discredit caused by irreligious conduct," from Middle French scandale, from Late Latin scandalum "cause for offense, stumbling block, temptation," from Greek skandalon "a trap or snare laid for an enemy," in New Testament, metaphorically as "a stumbling block, offense;" originally "trap with a springing device," from PIE *skand- "jump" (cf. Greek skandalizein "to make to stumble, give offense to" someone; see scan; cf. also slander). Attested from early 13c., but the modern word is a reborrowing. Meaning "malicious gossip" is from 1590s; sense of "person whose conduct is a disgrace" is from 1630s. Scandal sheet "sensational newspaper" is from 1939.
I will reject any attempts to throw mud at the POTUS, the best and greatest in our history. No, Benghazi was the fault of the GOP. The IRS was the fault of tea party (why are they applying for tax credits). The AP was fault of the GOP (why are reporters holding the water for anyone else, but the WH). No, the fault is totally, completely, categorically, on the GOP.
We will win the House and keep the Senate in 2014. In 2016, we will have it all.
Yes, sireee, bob!
The key to all this is when a few of these "low level" IRS agents in Cincinnati get tired of being slimed by their superiors and come in with come e-mails that they were told to destroy and that they kept top protect themselves.
The Watergate investigation was stalled until Alexander Butterfield disclosed the taping system,
The e-mails blew open the global warming hoax in spite of all the attempts by the anti-capitalist left to put humpty dumpty back together.
We need an insider with hard copies of some thing the Obama people think has been safely buried.
@America's P: The 2010 midterms came as a surprise to you. Remember when you disappeared for a few days afterwards?
It's OK though--I think you're good-hearted.
The theory of government is do nothing until the toilet paper runs out.
rhhardin said...
Show us any example of good character on Obama's part at any point in his life.
he never ratted out his college coke dealer.
Some of these people - maybe also the man at the top - seem to not realize that they now are "da man," and responsibilities come with that.
I think you're good-hearted.
El Pollo, is that cockney rhyming slang for "retarded"?
Who can possibly believe Obama was unaware? He micromanages commas.
And if Obamas "theory of governing" looks like someone familiar?...
"stopping bad thing that are going on"
Me talk pretty one day.
Lem, That is the funniest Sedaris book.
"The Watergate investigation was stalled until Alexander Butterfield disclosed the taping system,
The e-mails blew open the global warming hoax in spite of all the attempts by the anti-capitalist left to put humpty dumpty back together.
We need an insider with hard copies of some thing the Obama people think has been safely buried."
Michael K, you omitted an obvious addition to your list. Bill Clinton was doing his best to pretend Monica Lewinsky was that crazy woman until news of the blue dress surfaced. Bet that came as a shock.
Well, reading your post again, I guess you hinted at it:
when a few of these "low level" IRS agents in Cincinnati get tired of being slimed by their superiors
Where's Inga? We need to hear the sychophant point of view and nobody does it better.
You need to summon bagoh20 or ritmo first and then she magically appears.
Titus is my stalker.
El Pollo, is that cockney rhyming slang for "retarded"?
No Chip, it means I don't hold a grudge.
They have no theory of governing.
Remember, this is the crowd that talked about ruling when he was running in '08.
I don't think of a diagnosis as a grudge.
I dont know what turned Woodward but he is talking like journalist with a conscience.
not present?
Any similarity between the Woodward column and Dowd's?
I cant bring my self to read any of it... I'm watching the Red sox... who have a better chance at winning everything than this administration getting blamed for anything they do.
I agree with Woodward... its better to step back, lean back and relax.
So the IRS is even more aggressive than we though... the law is irrelevant... its not like they are bad people... every organization has a few bad apples.
not present?
Nice.
I have no doubt this administration is hard at work getting to the bottom of how Bush is responsible for Benghazi, the Associated Press's phone records, the IRS targeting of Tea Party groups, just as he is responsible for everything else bad in the world today.
I have no doubt this administration is hard at work getting to the bottom of how Bush is responsible for Benghazi, the Associated Press's phone records, the IRS targeting of Tea Party groups, just as he is responsible for everything else bad in the world today.
I am open to impeachment. I want high drama.
I also want huge biceps.
tits and thanks.
I've always wanted to see a debate b/w Titus and AP.
There is a cartoon in our morning paper . The first frame is of Bush who says "I'm the decider." The second frame is of Obama who is saying, "it was Low Level employees.. Rush Limbaugh..it was CIA...It was the sequester..I was Golfing...It was Bush." That about sums it up.
In a sense, there is no surprise.
The underlings, even the powerful underlings, know that Job 1 is to protect the leader. This means keeping the leader and his close advisers from knowing about embarrassing or illegal stuff. Even when the stuff is being done to advance the leader's interest. Even when the leader has created the climate that leads to the abuses.
Again, you will look in vain to find a direct communications line between Clinton or Obama and the perpetrators of these outrages. The underlings know their role.
Clinton is a liar. Both Clintons. Obama is more given to misleading and misdirection than outright lies, or so it has seemed. In either case, openness and truth are not valued.
The underlings get that message very clearly.
We know where the President was and what he was doing up until just before 8pm on Sunday Nov. 11.
5-6 Regularly scheduled security briefing with Panetta.
6:30-7:26 Phone call with Netanyahu.
7:28 Informal Meeting with security staff in Oval Office. Photo
After that ???. Sunday Night Football Nov. 11, 2012 Houston at Chicago
I am open to impeachment. I want high drama.
I don't think people want to be reminded that Obama is black.
I think Rabel has bingo.
If you won't impeach him everyone should be satisfied that there are investigations that are in process or will be started. Right?
Their theory of governing is the same as their theory of campaigning.
They've never shifted from one to the other. And that goes directly to Barack Obama.
Perpetual campaigning and campaigning as governing.
Is that your real pic Chip S?
thanks and tits.
Bob Woodward went on to mention that Transvestite hookers should have a no-surprise rule, also, but did not Elaborate.
...everyone should be satisfied that there are investigations that are in process or will be started. Right?
If Obama says so, it must be true... or at least until he finds out... or something like that.
Is that your doggy Lem?
I am trying to know peeps a little better here.
thanks and tits.
Michael K said...
The key to all this is when a few of these "low level" IRS agents in Cincinnati get tired of being slimed by their superiors and come in with come e-mails that they were told to destroy and that they kept top protect themselves.
The key is when you get FBI agents to ask serious questions (as opposed to Congresscritters) to the full range of IRS staff (bottom to top).
The lies will be immediately obvious under professional questioning...
If Obama says so, it must be true.
Well if Boehner or McConnell tells you otherwise you'll know to get out of your panties and put you boy shorts on. Or something like that. Right?
Have they stonewalled the investigations so far?
Well if Boehner or McConnell tells you...
That's good... the republicans were targeting the tea parties.
That was Althouse's assessment... so you are not in bad company.
phx: Investigations? What difference, at this point, does it make?
Rabel said...
We know where the President was and what he was doing up until just before 8pm on Sunday Nov. 11.
5-6 Regularly scheduled security briefing with Panetta.
6:30-7:26 Phone call with Netanyahu.
7:28 Informal Meeting with security staff in Oval Office. Photo
After that ???. Sunday Night Football Nov. 11, 2012 Houston at Chicago
November 11? Aren't we talking about September 11?
That was Althouse's assessment... so you are not in bad company.
Okay, what's Fox News telling you then? Oh, I get it. They're telling you to get out there and... overreach.
Is that what they're telling you?
The 0bama Administration Official Board Game:
http://www.amazon.com/Lie-Cheat-Steal-Political-Power/dp/B0013XLS4K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368994806&sr=8-2&keywords=lie%2C+cheat+and+steal&tag=appmatic-20
They're telling you to overreach, aren't they?
Have they stonewalled the investigations so far?
If you want to call releasing a 10th of the emails, all redacted, compliance... sure.
Oh wait... are we talking about Benghazi, the IRS or the phone taps?
Never mind... I got to go.. I have a commitment.
I've made the big time. My own parody account!
Sure, Mr. and Mrs. Too-Busy-to-Save-
America-from-the-Fascist-Democrats.
Go ahead. We'll fix it without you.
Although that was some pretty weak shit right there.
7:28 Informal Meeting with security staff in Oval Office. Photo
I love the expression on Slo'Joe's face. He's either utterly astounded, or he just sharted.
"Perpetual campaigning and campaigning as governing."
Bingo!
phx said...
"If you won't impeach him everyone should be satisfied that there are investigations that are in process or will be started. Right?"
Johnson wasn't impeached. The attempt to do so to Nixon was the ghost of Alger Hiss, who was used as a commenter on TV. It came as a coup d'etat by Mark Felt who was "deep throat." Pretty good revenge but it would not have worked without the Hiss angle.
Impeaching Clinton was not a great idea but he forced the issue as Nixon never did.
Why do you think a penis still referred to as "Johnson?"
No, I think it will take an insider to rat out Obama and cronies. Somebody who is going to jail. We need a Judge Sirica.
Garage: Congratulations. That's trolling excellence right there. Dedication, devotion, the boy can play.
I don't know what I should have to worry about if the investigations are underway and if they're open and transparent.
If they decide on a special investigator I accept that. If they don't, I'll be all right with it, too. Unless someone could persuade me that the decision one way or another is a power grab. Which even if it is, we've seen that s#$t before. We'll get through this, probably.
Interesting stuff on the timeline, Rabel.
Wonder what those notes that Biden was holding said?
Maybe he needed more women in the room?
Garage: Congratulations.
I wouldn't go that far yet. It's probably just President Moms Jeans, Jay, or one of my other excited fanboys who follow me around for some reason.
You're a parody account and you can't format a html link in your post? Seriously, come on. I'm not impressed.
garage mahal said...
I've made the big time. My own parody account!
In a rich bit of irony, your comments have been parody all along.
What difference, at this point, does it make?
Definitely THE quote to come out of all this so far. I used it with a relative earlier this morning.
Please! Feel free to step as far back as you like!
Having failed both the leading and following parts, it sure would be nice to see Republicans learning the part about getting the hell out of the way.
I'm not defending the President. I don't know how far up this stuff goes, or to what extent he should be accountable simply b/c he's the President. I'm not against the principle that he should be accountable for that reason.
It's that I don't know yet, and I don't think anyone knows, to what extent does the wrongdoing go? It seems we need investigations to know that. The acting head of the IRS was let go. Good. What next does everyone want exactly?
I think Bob Woodward is a crook.
phx, watching you engage them on these points is very interesting.
You do know, however, that they care not a whit for any right or wrongdoing or the principle of anything, and that the only thing that motivates them is whether they can make Obama "look bad", right?
There's no better time to start thinking clearly about these things than right now.
Impeaching Clinton was not a great idea but he forced the issue as Nixon never did.
Great big LOLS of fire!
Having a different, dictionary-based definition of "sexual relations" than the oral variety fantasized about by jealous Republicans is surely a high crime and misdemeanor if I've ever heard of one!
You do know, however, that they care not a whit for any right or wrongdoing or the principle of anything, and that the only thing that motivates them is whether they can make Obama "look bad", right?
Hey R&B. Well I'm willing to put up that I'm not motivated by making Obama look good. I'll subject myself to any interrogation of my position and opinion. I'll be honest and snark-free. Let the truth goes where the truth goes.
Let's find out who's interested in the principles behind the right or wrong.
This thing is gonna drag on forever not because of any brilliance on the part of the Republicans on the congressional committee investigating the IRS, rather because Obama's Justice Department is also investigating the IRS and the lawyers for those under investigation...well, let me quote from a John Podhoretz column in today's NY Post: "The congressional process will likely drag out for years, since the Justice Department is also investigating. A DOJ investigation will have the effect of gumming up the works for Congress because no lawyer will allow her client to testify or cooperate with congressional investigators when a criminal indictment is a possibility."
So there ain't no way the Obama/IRS connection will be a fading memory for voters in November. The irony is delicious.
Don't worry, Obama's not the next Nixon. Everything's being handled appropriately. Politically. Legally. The right is 40-years behind (as always) and having their "Let's get him like Nixon was got" moment. Don't see how it will work. They always confuse the political with the moral and legal. Where is the proportion? This is about as big a nothing as Bush firing state attorneys general so that they could be more Republican-sympathetic, or probably bigger. And everyone remembers how far that went, right? Or don't they? Oh yeah.
It's the political equivalent of that. And probably legally and morally a whole lot less. Obama already fired the fall guy. I'm pretty sure he's legally prohibited from doing much more, as he was prohibited from interfering before, earlier. In the throes of any "scandal". But one thing you can always expect from this crowd is that they'll never have checked such relevant facts as those. Ever. All noise no poise. And no facts, background, or relevant details. Feel free to engage it as you like.
Sorry, U.S. Attorneys, not states. Just to make sure the details of that scandal (as unprecedented in scope as it was) are right.
Hey, Montana Urban Balls, politicizing the IRS is no biggie, right? Just like Clinton's lying under oath was no biggie, right, Schmendrick?
R&Bs theory sounds plausible to me. As do some of the theories coming from the right.
I don't have to choose yet. I'm watching and listening to see that the process is sufficient and transparent.
alpha troll: "Sorry, U.S. Attorneys, not states. Just to make sure the details of that scandal (as unprecedented in scope as it was) are right."
How could Bush replacing 8 US Attorney's be "unprecedented" when Clinton replaced 93?
LOL
Oh, that's right.
Continue.
"I'll be honest and snark-free. Let the truth goes where the truth goes. "
Since when will you be honest and snark free?
Man--if it weren't for your snark you'd be really hard to take.
:)
Only in ricpic's world is using the dictionary a big, heavily politicized act.
Also, what did Obama have to do with what the IRS did? Please just come right out now and admit that you have no idea what his constitutional and legal restrictions are and were when it comes to interfering with the IRS. Because it would also prove that you know nothing about the Nixon-era abuses that led to the president's separation from those ordinary IRS activities.
But it's nice to know that you're able to see that guy as the precedent-setting lesson in lawbreaking. Obama is not that guy. As much as you'd like him to be.
"Although Bush and President Bill Clinton each dismissed nearly all U.S. attorneys upon taking office, legal experts and former prosecutors say the firing of a large number of prosecutors in the middle of a term appears to be unprecedented and threatens the independence of prosecutors."
Mistakes Were Made WaPo 3/14/07
How could Bush replacing 8 US Attorney's be "unprecedented" when Clinton replaced 93?
Because of the circumstances under which and the reasons given for blocking their continued service.
Not that you should, ever, ever wonder or worry about things like that.
For you, political things are moral. It's how it was with Nixon and it's how it is with the current crowd of GOP jabberers.
Even phx will see.
I guess Ritzy's feelin' saucy today. Didn't have any posts yanked yesterday so he's thinkin' he can destroy another thread.
I will say getting too far off on the Bush AG dismissals wouldn't seem very productive to my mind.
That could work to Obama's benefit if you ask me. But if Repubs are willing to do that I'm sure they'll fine willing partners.
"You need to stop the bad things right away."
Unless you know 99% of the media hacks will read the talking points you give them just like they were real news and then turn on and demonize the 1% that dare to go off the reservation. It's the Chicago way.
I will say getting too far off on the Bush AG dismissals wouldn't seem very productive to my mind.
Maybe not here. But appealing to the American people's inherent interest in fairness is never a bad thing. Analogies help with understanding fairness, and with just being able to learn and conceptualize generally.
Some people are obviously better at that than others.
As long as Woodward brings it up, what is OUR theory of governing? Maybe every now and then it's good look back at the basics. What political principles do I bring to the discussion at Althouse. And then talk about how they guide your thinking on the scandals.
Nobody has to do that of course. But I'm challenging you. Anyone. Doesn't have to be now, but sometime during the process. I won't tear anyone down or be snarky who tries to answer those questions. "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" are always valid answers to me. I think I've shown that.
November 11? Aren't we talking about September 11?
Presidential tailgating takes at least 2 months of prep time.
No, you're not arguing facts. You're flailing about doing your usual monopolization, while spewing out falsehoods and logical fallacies.
And it's probably not the scepter of the hostess you need to kiss. If she gets mad at you she'll make up some bullshit about something you said to try and make you look bad--you know, like if you disagree with her about her Freudian interpretations she'll jump the shark and call you homophobic and blather on about how full of anxiety you must be.
Meade's the one that deletes posts I think.
I could be wrong.
But I doubt it.
What are your beliefs and how do they effect what you think of the Obama scandals?
Woodward has a real point here. It's common sense that a President can't know everything that is going on in every department at any given time, but you would think that any politically sensitive information would go up the chain. Treasury was told about the IRS practices last year--did no one at Treasury think "Wow, I better let the WH know about this."
What about the AP thing? Holder recused himself so his Deputy ran the show--did the Deputy not tell anyone higher up that he was going to subpoena reporters' phone records? Could he possibly be that oblivious to the political ramifications?
It just seems crazy to me--is there no communication with the WH? You would think that any politically sensitive issues would get communicated up the chain immediately. How is it possible that Treasury knows about one of the most potentially explosive allegations regarding the IRS in mid-2012, but Obama only finds out about it from the news?
What political principles do I bring to the discussion at Althouse. And then talk about how they guide your thinking on the scandals.
Okay, what principles do you bring to the discussion? You try to act moderate, yet you're almost never found criticizing anyone but Republicans.
Okay, what principles do you bring to the discussion? You try to act moderate, yet you're almost never found criticizing anyone but Republicans.
Because there's always so much to criticize! They never seem to disappoint.
phx does a good job of fairly considering the constant litany of charges brought up against every Democrat for being a Democrat with superior knowledge of how wrongdoing is determined versus what can be drummed up in the public imagination. But since he's rational, he always comes back to the sane conclusion behind the charges: There's really never any there there.
And that always makes him seem unfair to you.
Why not answer his question about the biases you're bring with you? He did ask first.
I lean pretty obviously to the left. What you see of me here might not be a fully accurate accounting of the full range of my beliefs though. I don't need to do much criticizing of the left here - it's well taken care of.
You might notice I don't criticize a lot of righties POLICIES either. Most of what I poke you guys for are the execution of your plans. I point out what appear to be contradictions or inconsistencies in you, that all seems fair game to me.
See Ritzy--that's the point.
I'm trying to have a conversation with phx, who's thrown out these questions a few times but for some reason isn't answering now.
I don't care about your beliefs about Republicans. I know what they are. I might even sympathize, but I don't care right now.
he always comes back to the sane conclusion behind the charges: There's really never any there there.
Just to speak for myself and no disrespect R&B, I haven't concluded that yet.
Sir Ritmo Churchill kisses the Queen's sceptor
What I don't get is why you think you don't need to criticize the left? I'm happy enough to criticize stupid shit the republican party (that monolith) do---when there's a point to it.
If that makes any sense.
I'm not a policy wonk by any means. I generally favor Dems in foreign policy. I was glad Obama had a plan when he first took office and, given my expectations for collapse, I've been satisfied with the economic stimulus spending, the economy in general. I'm frightened by the deficits but I'm not an economist.
I have a great interest in the way the right is managing the dyamics on their team right now. I'm very critical of that at times. Most of the time.
I like that one, chicklit.
Sphincter. LOL.
In Ritmo's world, Clinton did nothing other than follow Arnaud Amalric's theory of personnel management. Same with the other Clinton and the Travel Office.
What I don't get is why you think you don't need to criticize the left?
I don't get in a lot of policy discussions. I've lived through a lot of policies, I'm not too excited by them.
They right does have a lot to criticize in the face it shows to everyone. I don't think the left has that bad of a problem. Hence, I criticize the right.
I haven't concluded that yet.
Well, if you're rational, and if an investigation open enough for Aristotle and Socrates is made available, my guess is that you probably will.
Mind you, I'm a scientist. So I don't know with absolute or greater than 99% certainty that Obama won't be convincingly shown to be a she-devil whore who will make America into Babylon by using the IRS that he is legally prohibited from colluding with to bring down anti-taxation/anti-revenue groups.
But based on my powers of deduction and past evidence, I feel comfortably certain that the answer is that it's unlikely.
And increasingly unlikely with each ODS-catalyzed investigation that fails.
That's how evidence works. It accumulates. Empiricism.
But I like guys like you -- ever the rationalist. Obviously our side needs and requires them, too.
Just too bad that the other side doesn't.
Please stop saying "the right".
There's no there there.
There are conservatives, libertarians, big and small r republicans, consertarians and even a few classical liberals. The Republican Party (R) and (TM) is fucking up everything they try to do, just about.
Then again, they are swimming against a pretty stiff current of the national media and obamaphones.
Further, I'm not a republican (or a Republican). Except for a couple of things, I'm a libertarian, or maybe just classically liberal.
McCain and Boehnor are just as much the enemy as Obama.
I think it's easier to be rational when you don't have a deep vested interest in the outcome. I don't think I do.
I could accept it if Obama was walked off stage in handcuffs. And it certainly doesn't bother me in the least if the Republicans / Tea Partiers make fools of themselves.
We are sliding into a corrupt dictatorship, but we are not allowed to speak out and stop it.
The state-run pro-democrat hack media will not investigate and report truthfully, because they cannot or will not. Certainly, those who would like to report some truth are muzzled and threated. The corruption goes all the way to the top and the foxes are guarding the hen house.
It's over. America is screwed.
You know they are in trouble when Bob Schieffer gets sharp with them.
Michael K said...
The key to all this is when a few of these "low level" IRS agents in Cincinnati get tired of being slimed by their superiors and come in with come e-mails that they were told to destroy and that they kept top protect themselves.......
We need an insider with hard copies of some thing the Obama people think has been safely buried.
==============
The lower level people are likely all devoted Obamites that are under the impression that "they will be taken care of" - meaning that they will get jobs elsewhere in the bureacracy once Hillary is elected. Or, if they are seen by the public as particularly odious, like acting Commissioner Steven Miller, a high 6 or low seven figure salary in the private sector as a "tax consultant" in a business owned by a wealthy liberal or progressive jewish donor to the Democrats.
Providing a job and defacto hush money to an IRS agent who falls on his or her sword buys as much goodwill as a million dollar campaign contribution.
So, you can hope for an Obamite to have a change of heart and betray the Messiah....or go with a Special Prosecutor.
The good thing with a Special Prosecutor is that they can convince non-cooperating lower level people they are toast if they don't give up higher ups, or evidence they have via mails or testimony to who ordered them to target opposition to Obama.
A Special Prosecutor is exceptionally good at telling flunkies that the history is - if convicted or just indicted, their support network and revolving door for more power and more money in future public or private Democrat patronage goes away.
They become radioactive, exposed.
No one will hire them to a cushy job after jail or fines.
People who squeal have a much better shot at reclaiming their lives and fortunes. And a greater chance of squealing as a loyal Obamite under scuch circumstances than as a voluntary turncoat against the Obama people.
I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows.
I believe that somewhere in the darkest night a candle glows.
I believe for everyone who goes astray someone will come to show the way.
I believe Barack Hussien Obama is a secret Muslim who is secretly working for the truimph of Allah since he feels the future does not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.
I think what phx is saying (if I may) is a bit like what Hitchens said about Randian objectivism and the encouragement of selfishness.
Some things don't need encouragement. There's already plenty of them to go around already.
Such is criticism of Democrats. There's already so damn much of it (whether political or legitimate) that how much do you think a humble partisan like phx can add?
The fact that he's willing to take these never-ending charges seriously and to give credence to the side engaging them should be enough for anyone.
If only we ever had someone like that on the right. Yes, you guys criticize the right (and phx is right, it's about policies) but not when it comes to tactics. Those should be criticism-worthy, as well.
After all, that's what Obama's coming under fire for. Tactical decisions. Political or otherwise, it's his actions you're criticizing.
When do we get to criticize Republican actions? Including this one?
phx, thanks for abandoning the tiresome holier than thou up on a pedestal position, btw.
I don't have anything against honest lefties (LOL).
Seriously--some of my best friends are left. Way left. The people that think Obama is a Republican POTUS left.
We have policy discussions and they wind up asking me "why the hell are you a republican"...
And you know, a lot of it has to do with personalities.
Pelosi, Reid, Stef Cutter, Obama, Michelle, Biden etc etc...they're all so personally obnoxious to me that I couldn't be a democrat if I tried.
And one of my college majors (had 4...was stupid) was political science. I used to adore everything about politics and could talk about it for hours. Now it just makes me angry and sad.
Sort of like what they're doing to the NFL.
Ritzy, stop speaking for phx. Several times now you've done it and several times you've been corrected, gently.
I'd tell you to speak for yourself, but you've posted about 30 times in the past hour as it is.
Has anybody brought this up at all?
Where, exactly, was he, as in, was he even there?
Rhythm and Balls said...
Don't worry, Obama's not the next Nixon.
Right, he's the next Mussolini.
The fact that he's willing to take these never-ending charges seriously and to give credence to the side engaging them should be enough for anyone."
Really? You don't find it a little chilling that members of the opposition were singled out to be intimidated by the meanest organized crime family out there, the IRS?
You don't find that bothersome at all?
In a rich bit of irony, your comments have been parody all along.
In a rich bit of irony, you didn't know all along that this account has already been a parody of sorts. Meaning, under this moniker I never ever give a fuck. It's "separate" from me, even if you did know who I am I still wouldn't give a fuck.
Which makes your anger towards me and your tireless devotion of trying to discredit this anonymous moniker sort of funny. And tiring. It may be time to hitch up and take a ride.
Well somebody used the IRS the to bring down anti-taxation/anti-revenue groups. Somebody used the IRS to harass at less one of Romney's supporters/funders. And somebody joked about targeting his political opponents using the IRS.
Obama looks like the umbrella man in the Zapruder film to use a conspiracy analogy. When the guy finally came forward, he admitted that he was trying to politically irk someone at the wrong place/wrong time in history.
Obama is unlucky in that he joked about something which came true. He also pissed off too many of his erstwhile supporters. The man has no sense of humility--only hubris. I don't blame him personally--I blame his enablers.
I believe above the storm the smallest prayer will still be heard
I believe that someone in the great somewhere hears every word
I believe every time I hear a newborn baby cry that Obama would try to kill her if she survived a botched abortion.
First:
This is about as big a nothing as Bush firing state attorneys general so that they could be more Republican-sympathetic, or probably bigger
Then:
But one thing you can always expect from this crowd is that they'll never have checked such relevant facts as those. Ever.
Again, you really can't parody the left anymore.
If ritmo didn't exist, the right would have to invent her.
Obama is a black man, according to Drudge.
Wow. Get a peek under the curtain of corruption and Obama runs off into the safe arms of racecard.
More Drudge:
Anonymous IRS official -- everything comes from the top...
McConnell: 'There is culture of intimidation throughout administration'...
I'm shocked Obama's thugs haven't found a way to silence Drudge.
phx said...
They right does have a lot to criticize in the face it shows to everyone. I don't think the left has that bad of a problem.
What a touching, intellectual, story that is.
You don't find that bothersome at all?
I think it's absolutely okay to be bothered by it. I also think a genuine good faith effort to determine a fair measure of outrage over this is also important.
We can't just go out bring Obama to prison, and we can't just say fahgedabbowdit. It's reasonable to determine how bad it actually is before rendering too many judgments. Rushing off to fast, early, premature judgements is not something good citizens or good thinkers should do either.
I believe I can fly.
I believe I can touch the sky.
I think about it every night and day
spread wings and fly away.
I believe I can soar.
I believe Barack Hussein Obama was too lazy to worry about our ambassador getting killed because he thought it was not that big a deal.
Rushing off too fast
...or furiously?
Where's Inga? We need to hear the sychophant point of view and nobody does it better.
You need to summon bagoh20 or ritmo first and then she magically appears.
Titus is my stalker.
5/19/13, 2:29 PM
Inga is in Madison this weekend enjoying lovely liberal Madison, great weather, family and friends! No time for sychophanting. Then off to parts unknown.....
First:
They right does have a lot to criticize in the face it shows to everyone.
Then:
It's reasonable to determine how bad it actually is before rendering too many judgments
Hilarious.
I bet phx has taken all sorts of time to analyze things and facts and stuff to come to the judgement the right has a whole bunch of stuff to criticize and the left, well, not so much.
Phx. "What are your beliefs and how do they effect what you think of the Obama scandals?"
I believe in unfettered free speech and thus am particularly appalled by the failure of the left, a segment of the political spectrum that once valued free speech especially highly,to be affronted by the use of the IRS to target speech as a rstionale to punish through audit or delay those in opposition to the current regime. Progressives seem uniformily to not value free speech, to be threatened by it, to try to redefine and eliminate it.
Moral of the story: Don't burn Bob.
garage mahal said...
In a rich bit of irony, you didn't know all along that this account has already been a parody of sorts. Meaning, under this moniker I never ever give a fuck
Yes, you're an Internet troll.
We know this. You don't believe half the shit you type, you mostly don't even know what the words mean.
Really? You don't find it a little chilling that members of the opposition were singled out to be intimidated by the meanest organized crime family out there, the IRS?
You don't find that bothersome at all?
I could be persuaded to under the following conditions:
1. It wasn't the follow-up to a rather endless season of drip-drip scandal-mongering. Like the boy that cries wolf, there are only so many nefarious things you can accuse Obama of before anyone stops taking them seriously.
2. If Obama hadn't been legally prohibited from colluding with the IRS in the first place, thereby mitigating any fall-out to him that Rove et al are still gleeful at allowing to spin that way.
3. If we weren't taking the illogical, if philosophically/culturally appropriate approach of being ideologically blind. You compare the IRS to the mafia, the Tea Partiers are anti-revenue, of course it is logical to think they'd be more sympathetic to cheating. Perhaps not right. Perhaps not even correct. But certainly logical.
So in that light, it makes this "scandal" a bit satirical.
If phx doesn't need me to speak for him, I don't think he needs you to feign offense at alleging that I've done so, either. But he can clarify whether he's got less of a problem with you speaking for him in that regard.
Thanks.
Actually it was 13 times, CEO, not 30.
Trust me, I'm counting, too.
What is the Sarbanes–Oxley that would apply to public service at the level of a President?
What is the Sarbanes–Oxley that would apply to public service at the level of a President?
I believe in unfettered free speech and thus am particularly appalled by the failure of the left, a segment of the political spectrum that once valued free speech especially highly,to be affronted by the use of the IRS to target speech as a rstionale to punish through audit or delay those in opposition to the current regime. Progressives seem uniformily to not value free speech, to be threatened by it, to try to redefine and eliminate it.
This is how I would break up what Michael says here so I can understand better:
"I believe in unfettered free speech. I'm appalled by the failure of the left to be affronted by the use of the IRS to target speech as a rationale to punish through audit or delay those in opposition to the current regime."
I understand that. If I'm an example however I think have claimed here before many times that nothing offends (or affronts) me. At least I try to do my absolute best NOT to be affronted by ANYTHING. I don't think I often show "affrontery" here - a recent meltdown when it came to the response to something Titus said is an exception.
So I'd say, if people aren't affronted, that doesn't bother me. More important, are they willing to take responsibility and work with others to see the truth comes out, the guilty are punished and the system is improved or fixed?
Ritzy, I wasn't feigning outrage at you speaking for phx, I was just saying stop doing it. I want to hear what he has to say, since he's finally dropping that 'above it all' veneer.
I know what you're going to say. You say it a lot.
I haven't seen Rove gleeful about the IRS thing. Then again, I don't pay any attention to Turd Blossom.
Seems like a nice enough guy, and smart, but like so many nice, smart guys--he's dumb.
Ritmo Pompous Montanus Balls wrote: 'You do know, however, that they care not a whit for any right or wrongdoing or the principle of anything, and that the only thing that motivates them is whether they can make Obama "look bad", right?'
It is arguable that holding that the Obama Administration is always to blame is nearly as ridiculous as claiming that they are always blameless.
It does seem evident, however, that the former position creates fewer risks to our future and our liberty than the latter.
If Obama hadn't been legally prohibited from colluding with the IRS in the first place,
What a fucking moron you are.
Seriously, why do you type such dumb shit?
the Tea Partiers are anti-revenue, of course it is logical to think they'd be more sympathetic to cheating. Perhaps not right. Perhaps not even correct. But certainly logical.
In other words: it was ok what the IRS did, because, um, "logic"
You're a simpleton who takes to the Internet to say simpleton things.
It's hiliarous when a moonbat cums on here and spouts shit and the wingnuts go crazy.
I fucking love the drama and outrage. It's totally fab.
tits and thanks.
It would be illegal for Obama to direct the IRS to single out the applications of a non-profit group based on their political beliefs so Obama didn't do that!
No way!!!!!!!!!
NOT possible!!!
And yes, I compared the IRS to an organized crime outfit.
One of my best friends (and business partner) has an MBA and owns an accounting practice. I'm well aware of the bullshit the IRS pulls.
They do things they'll never allow anyone to get away with. They intimidate and threaten, and if they really decide they want to, they can and will destroy your life--and not just yours, but the life of your family and your employees.
They have way too much unaccountable power.
"anti-revenue"!!!
Because taxes are revenue now. Totally the same thing!!
fucking moron.
Seems like a nice enough guy, and smart, but like so many nice, smart guys--he's dumb.
I don't regret giving you the opportunity to defend Rove's malfeasance with appeals to his character, which is not and never was the point. (And do you even know him, BTW? Also, I never said he was dumb)
Anyway, I'm not stopping what phx has to say one bit. Let him try to walk this through with the commenters logically. That's fine.
If Inga is in Madison partying with friends and family blah blah...why bother to read this thread and respond?
I believe Inga posts regularly from Madison.
She does a hell of a job driving up page views, ya know?
Jay,
Your civility is encouraging. I hope it gives the commenters here on the right hope that all is not lost for them.
Notice how few trolls there are and how lame their stuff is?
Get the feeling they're losing Hope?
Seems like a nice enough guy, and smart, but like so many nice, smart guys--he's dumb.
I don't regret giving you the opportunity to defend Rove's malfeasance with appeals to his character, which is not and never was the point. (And do you even know him, BTW? Also, I never said he was dumb)
Anyway, I'm not stopping what phx has to say one bit. Let him try to walk this through with the commenters logically. That's fine."
Ritmo:
Fucking hell shit for brains!
You said Rove was being gleeful and spinning the IRS thing. I responded by saying I hadn't seen him say anything about it--then went on to say that I didn't care for him--even though he seems nice enough.
Has nothing to do with you. It's part of having a conversation. I added in a stray thought of my own.
Jesus.
You mean it's time for a Change, ed?
I'm well aware of the bullshit the IRS pulls.
Make the tax code fairer and less revenue averse and I'm sure we can do away with some of that. The first part is supposed to be (I'm told) a Republican/libertarian interest. I have no problem with it. But you can't do it without the second part.
They have way too much unaccountable power.
Make it accountable? Ok. But decoupling it from the president's power to make departments accountable personally was an effort at depoliticizing it. Appreciate that first (and how that impacts this "scandal") and then maybe you'll persuade me that you're serious about reforming it in an even less destructive way further.
CEO, I'm taking a break, what's it to ya? I don't live in lovely liberal Madison, wish I did. Now I'm off to the Great Dane, tata!
Ritmo:
Fucking hell shit for brains!
You said Rove was being gleeful and spinning the IRS thing. I responded by saying I hadn't seen him say anything about it--then went on to say that I didn't care for him--even though he seems nice enough.
Has nothing to do with you. It's part of having a conversation. I added in a stray thought of my own.
Jesus.
Dear CEO:
Does this response of yours seem temperamentally appropriate at all to what I said?
I hope you got whatever it is out of your system with this unprovoked (at least as far as I can tell) outburst.
In any event, have a good one. I've got some other things going on too.
I'm just so glad we know Obama isn't involved in this IRS stuff because that would have been illegal!
Wooo-weee, so happy we got to the bottom of that one!
Ritmo Pompous Montanus Balls wrote: "... the Tea Partiers are anti-revenue, of course it is logical to think they'd be more sympathetic to cheating. Perhaps not right. Perhaps not even correct. But certainly logical."
This is faulty lefty "logic," assuming that 'Tea Partiers' would commit a crime to further their political objectives.
Rational people understand that it is not logic at all, but projection.
So I have to appreciate (which sounds a lot like "accept" your premise) before you'll believe I'm serious about not liking the IRS or the current scandal?
Fuck off.
This is faulty lefty "logic," assuming that 'Tea Partiers' would commit a crime to further their political objectives.
They certainly like to threaten to, Mr. Humble.
They also like "gray areas", from what I understand. Which is certainly fair game.
As far as the psychobabble, project away. And at will.
But decoupling it from the president's power to make departments accountable personally was an effort at depoliticizing it.
Good thing the President doesn't appoint the IRS commissioner who reports to the Secretary of the Treasury also appointed by the President!!
Thank Goodness it is all a-political and stuff!
Idiot.
So I have to appreciate (which sounds a lot like "accept" your premise) before you'll believe I'm serious about not liking the IRS or the current scandal?
Fuck off.
Very rational. The unprovoked (and unreciprocated) lack of civility. Is almost convincing me of something.
I'm not sure if it's the same thing you're convinced of. But it's starting to convince.
"Appreciation" and "acceptance" are also, two different things.
This lack of reciprocity doesn't seem to be doing much for Republican prospects (or their principles) but then, you're the one with a proclaimed, vested stake in those things.
Good luck.
That's your biggest problem, Ritzy. You push people until they show their annoyance, then you cry about it.
Put on your big boy pants if you're going to play the game that way.
Phx. You may be the exception to the rule. In general "progressives" have insulted liberalism in the most open and smug ways. Proudly, you might say.
Ritmo: "blah blah civility blah blah tone blah blah unprovoked blah blah WAAAAHHHHHH"
Good thing the President doesn't appoint the IRS commissioner who reports to the Secretary of the Treasury also appointed by the President!!
Thank Goodness it is all a-political and stuff!
Idiot.
I guess it takes a smart guy to show how these organizational nuances made the current scandal a political one from the top down, then. Or at any one of those much higher than the typical bureaucracy evels.
Which is, precisely why Jay will do nothing of the sort.
We need a lot less effrontery and outrage and a lot more sobriety in the face of these situations, IMO.
As I said on another thread, once immigration "reform" brings in another 30 million or so illegals to solidify the left's control forever, it will be like living in an occupied country in WW II run by an "American tell-us-what-you-said-in-your-prayers Stasi" (i.e., the IRS)
That's your biggest problem, Ritzy. You push people until they show their annoyance, then you cry about it.
No. You're just unhinged. And ill-behaved.
I said nothing rude about you at all.
The fact that you don't get this is a big part of the reason why the Party of Rude is going down.
Take a lesson from Reagan on that. And enjoy.
Phx. You may be the exception to the rule. In general "progressives" have insulted liberalism in the most open and smug ways. Proudly, you might say.
My advise is not to respond to them. Respond to the people who want to work with you. People on both sides who are willing to be positive, honest and not seeing everything as zero-sum game.
TIFWIW.
he and his administration have done a damn fine job of getting into every other aspect of life
As I said on another thread, once immigration "reform" brings in another 30 million or so illegals to solidify the left's control forever
The right should be able to compete for some of those millions. You can start figuring out how you do that or you can start whining now how you're being cheated. As a lean-lefty, it's all right with me if you choose the latter.
Remember when the moons had Bush Derangement Syndrome?
You wings have Obama Derangement Syndrome.
I recommend deep breaths, facials, massages, yoga, a vacation, retreat/rejuvenation, as well as a full body waxing with release.
You will feel more centered and relaxed and less angry and hateful and bitter and pissed and fucked.
And perhaps even accept the fact that the country is changing dramatically. Fags, brown peeps, etc are your future. Embrace it bitches who are old and white and going to die soon.
thanks and tits.
phx is the sort of person that thinks one can deal with a Hitler or Genghis Khan with naught but sobriety and sweet reason. It is only because some of us fight back with moral outrage and everything we have in the face of obvious totalitarian tendencies than the phxs' of this world have been allowed to live and prosper throughout history..
Phx. Very sober advice but it betrays an indifference to one of our basic freedoms. A more passionate belief in freedom of speech might be useful in protecting it. There is no need to "investigate" what the IRS admits to doing and recognizes as wrong to have done. And so we might see a hint of umbrage from even the most neutral of observers who care about the very first amendment.
phx is the sort of person that thinks one can deal with a Hitler or Genghis Khan with naught but sobriety and sweet reason.
I do think sobriety and reason are very important, especially when dealing with a Hitler or Genghis Khan.
But what a fool believes ... he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems ... to be
Is always better than nothing
There's nothing at all
What seems ... to be
Is always better than nothing
There's nothing at all
But what a fool believes he sees ...
No wise man has the power to reason away
That Barack Hussein Obama wants to destroy our First and Second Amendment rights before our very eyes
And a fool still believes in him.
You see it here every day.
I do think sobriety and reason are very important, especially when dealing with a Hitler or Genghis Khan.
But it's true sometimes other tools are handy.
Ritzy, you're calling me ill-behaved? LOL.
I may well be. But so's you.
@phx: I saw this quote the other day and thought of you.
"“For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.”
Bonus points if you know who said it without google.
*waves hand* me me me, can I try? The William Wallace guy who wrote pop philosophical books, like consider a lobster, then hung himself in desperation.
you have no idea what his constitutional and legal restrictions are and were when it comes to interfering with the IRS
...for a start, leaking taxpayers' confidential information to the political branches (Austan Goolsbee discussing the particulars of Koch Bros. Industries tax filings) is illegal and punishable by jail and fines.
CEO-MMP said...
You mean it's time for a Change, ed?
You read my nasty little mind.
I'm wondering how long it will be before Obama seriously loses it. He's not used to having his back against the wall, and it's looking more and more like no one's got his back right now.
Wait a minute, let me get this straight.
In Bitchtits adopts an online persona who is overweight, whose wife left him, and who didn't make it through high school?
That's what you made up? Really?
How fucking sad is your "real" life?
Did you only make it through 7th grade?
We need a lot less effrontery and outrage and a lot more sobriety in the face of these situations, IMO.
Look, the press did nothing about this stuff for years That's the problem, as I see it.
The press failed to vet Obama, failed to lift the fog surrounding this man regarding Rezko, etc. If people WEREN'T outraged, the large organs of the press would be doing nothing.
Now, the press has some explaining to do. It will be interesting to see how they react.
Garage made up a screen persona where he is the most rabid Green Bay Packers fan in Wisconsin.
That's just sad man.
A wasted life.
Well there's one thing about a set of comments like the above and that is it prepares me to be spattered with filthy abuse if I get into a conversation with a certain kind of lefty.
I live directly next door to a MIT Phd candidate who writes a blog called Observing Japan.
I want to do him really bad. He has an amazing body and he is totally bitchy. He is straight too but perhaps bi curious?
His parents paid for his loft in full-over 700k.
How can I breach wanting to fuck him?
tits and thanks.
Ask him if he likes gladiator movies.
Or if he knows Seven Machos.
" Fags, brown peeps, etc are your future. Embrace it bitches who are old and white and going to die soon."
Fair enough. And you can embrace that the country dies with them. Witness California, fags, brown peeps, etc. land, alive momentarily only through the force of will of an old, white Dem and the illusions perpetuated by other old, white Dems running the news media.
"“For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.”
No I don't know who said that. I do believe in not being angry, for one thing it interferes with your ability to think clearly.
“For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.”
No I don't know who said that. I do believe in not being angry, for one thing it interferes with your ability to think clearly. "
I know you don't. I remember your lecture about it the other day. It's why I thought of you when I saw the quote.
Ralph Waldo Emerson.
Emerson! Now there's a guy worth quoting.
Baron Zemo said...
Ask him if he likes gladiator movies.
Or if he knows Seven Machos."
Machos?
Was I talking about anger the other day? I do think anger is a waste of time for me, and I believe that it's possible to live the rest of my life without feeling any anger towards anything or anyone again.
I believe that I will get there.
It's easier to be free of anger if you think nobody owes you anything. And that's a key step towards what I think freedom is.
The citizens of Waukesha County are wondering why the air there smells so much cleaner and sweeter today.
Enjoy it now,Waukesha County. She'll be back soon enough.
But don't we all--or shouldn't we all--owe each other things?
How else is society going to stay together otherwise?
I mean...you don't owe me a living, I don't owe you an explanation, but there are, are there not, things we do owe each other?
But don't we all--or shouldn't we all--owe each other things?
I believe nobody owes me anything ever. What I will do is give other person's my impeccable best.
Part of my best is that I don't you or society or anyone else to necessarily share my philosophy or belief. I accept you for what you are. Predator or friend, or in between.
"don't expect you" - lo siento
Professor von Helsing said "Warriors ask for nothing. They have more love to give than the world could possibly accept."
This needs to be said every time it comes up. Clinton was not impeached for having oral sex with an intern. He was impeached for lying under oath to a grand jury. He also was disbarred for it.
Phx. People who never show anger are generally consumed with it. It lives in them, eating away, a knot of maggots gnawing away at the humanity.
Phx. You sit zazen? Then you know. . Anger sleeps quietly. Patiently.
The key to all this is when a few of these "low level" IRS agents in Cincinnati get tired of being slimed by their superiors and come in with come e-mails that they were told to destroy and that they kept top protect themselves
Not quite. The key will be when some low or mid level IRS drone realizes that his/her net worth will cover about seven hours of the cost of a top-flight attorney, and only a top-flight attorney can keep his/her sorry ass out of prison.
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