Althouse: "The Boy Scouts of America may soon give sponsors of troops the authority to decide whether to accept gays as scouts and leaders..."

January 28, 2013

"The Boy Scouts of America may soon give sponsors of troops the authority to decide whether to accept gays as scouts and leaders..."

"... a potentially dramatic retreat from an exclusionary nationwide policy that has provoked relentless protests."

163 comments:

Anonymous said...: Fabulous! Love the uniforms.; 1/28/13, 7:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Fabulous! Love the uniforms.; 1/28/13, 7:14 PM
Conserve Liberty said...: Break out the popcorn.; 1/28/13, 7:16 PM
mesquito said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/28/13, 7:20 PM
chickelit said...: Be Prepared; 1/28/13, 7:21 PM
mesquito said...: What happens if they choose "no"?; 1/28/13, 7:21 PM
bagoh20 said...: Dramatic retreat?

Annnnd jazz hands, 1...2...3...4...; 1/28/13, 7:22 PM
Chef Mojo said...: It was as inevitable as women in combat.

Anyway, what difference, at this point, does it make?; 1/28/13, 7:22 PM
Writ Small said...: Are the girl scouts going to allow heterosexual men as scout leaders?; 1/28/13, 7:27 PM
bagoh20 said...: Back in my day, most of the boys could never get anything going by rubbing those sticks together.; 1/28/13, 7:27 PM
Andy said...: It looks like constantly calling the Boy Scouts bigots because of their bigoted policy is working.; 1/28/13, 7:27 PM
Michael K said...: The Boy Scours can't win. First they were sued for not accepting gay scoutmasters. Then they were sued because they had fired pedophile scoutmasters. Of course, there is no connection between gay men and pedophiles. How dare you even think such a thing ?; 1/28/13, 7:27 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Andy: isn't it up to them--in a free country--to have a bigoted policy if they so choose?; 1/28/13, 7:29 PM
Andy said...: isn't it up to them--in a free country--to have a bigoted policy if they so choose?

There are some limits on what kind of bigotry is legally allowed in the United States, as we worked out during the civil rights period.

What is allowed in our free country is largely irrelevant in this case, since the Boy Scouts are free to be bigots if they want, and people like me are free to keep calling them bigots until they change their mind.; 1/28/13, 7:32 PM
YoungHegelian said...: I hope they can come up with some fabulous new categories for Merit Badges!; 1/28/13, 7:33 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: So, Andy--boiled down your answer is "yes", right?

Just checking.

And of course you can call their policy bigoted if you so choose.; 1/28/13, 7:37 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Andy,

There are some limits on what kind of bigotry is legally allowed in the United States

Yes, and we did so well with that, didn't we? 80% of black births outside of wedlock. One in three AA males between 20-29 under some form of court control (jail, prison, probation).

God save us all from the good intentions of (upper) middle class white liberals!; 1/28/13, 7:38 PM
Palladian said...: I hope they can come up with some fabulous new categories for Merit Badges!

Yes, just like they give Merit Badges to black scouts for watermelon and fried chicken proficiency!

Stereotypes are so amusing!; 1/28/13, 7:42 PM
Andy said...: So, Andy--boiled down your answer is "yes", right?

If I were a Supreme Court judge, I probably would have decided that an organization which bans gay kids shouldn't have access to public space like schools and military bases, but I accept the decision that the Supreme Court reached regarding that issue.

Since then, I and others have attacked the Boy Scouts for their bigotry, and it seems to be working.; 1/28/13, 7:44 PM
Expat(ish) said...: I know a bit about scouts - my oldest is getting his Eagle in a few months, my youngest is closing on his First Class this spring.

And my wife and daughter helped start a Venture Scout troop - a co-ed troop for older scouts and "youth" up to 21. (FYI: Venture Scouts cannot receive the Eagle.)

In Europe and many other countries the troops have been co-ed since WWII. And in many countries gay scouts participate and gay scout-masters serve.

Keep in mind that scouts here are chartered by the BSA - Boy Scouts of America. World wide scouting is pretty diverse. Canada, for example, has different rules. My son is going to a International Jamboree and part of what they have to learn is the rules of Scouting in Japan - and they are pretty different.

I've been predicting that the BSA push to charter Venture scouts was the early warning sign for change: girls and people of "other" genders.

I'm not taking a position it - the sexual issues are clearly covered by the two-deep rule and dealing with getting the right mix in tents is a minor problem. It's more getting the right buddy system right that's going to be hard and probably require three-deep adult leadership.

It's a tough problem to tackle, but it can be tackled.

I can tell you that the kids in my troop, which is very blue collar. couldn't care less about the "whole gay thing." Kids today just are stressed bout color or class or sex like we were.

It's kind of cool to watch.

-XC; 1/28/13, 7:49 PM
Forbes said...: It seems the first amendment--the right of the people to peaceably assemble--like the 2nd amendment, is optional for some--because calling people bigots is such a persuasive argument.; 1/28/13, 7:49 PM
YoungHegelian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/28/13, 7:54 PM
Revenant said...: Atheists remain persona non grata in Scouting, I see.; 1/28/13, 7:57 PM
Revenant said...: It seems the first amendment--the right of the people to peaceably assemble--like the 2nd amendment, is optional for some--because calling people bigots is such a persuasive argument.

The first amendment protects the Scouts' right to be bigoted, the right of people to criticize Scouts' bigotry, and the right of still others to complain about the criticism.

And, of course, my freedom to make snide remarks about the complaints about the criticism of the bigotry.; 1/28/13, 8:00 PM
kentuckyliz said...: The Boy Scouts is a voluntary private association that uses no federal funds.

So, what do you care what they do?

Go form your own group with different policies.; 1/28/13, 8:00 PM
kentuckyliz said...: OK now let's design the uniforms and the badge challenges.; 1/28/13, 8:01 PM
Andy said...: So, what do you care what they do?

Are you seriously wondering why I'm concerned that the Boy Scouts are teaching millions of kids that the right thing to do is to adopt hateful policies towards gay kids?; 1/28/13, 8:04 PM
Roux said...: This is a bad idea.; 1/28/13, 8:04 PM
jimbino said...: OK, get ready for the battle over atheist and humanist scouts.; 1/28/13, 8:06 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: adopt hateful policies towards gay kids

Is that what they do? Damn...I feel like I missed out. All I learned was how to fake my way through merit badge requirements and how not to light a fire (stupid scoutmaster).; 1/28/13, 8:08 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Andy R wrote:
I probably would have decided that an organization which bans gay kids shouldn't have access to public space like schools and military bases

Andy's definition of 'public space' is amusing.; 1/28/13, 8:09 PM
chickelit said...: How do they tell gay members from straight members at that age anyway? Does somebody look?; 1/28/13, 8:13 PM
Andy said...: Is that what they do? Damn...I feel like I missed out.

Almost-Eagle Scout denied award because he is gay

Taking a kid who has done all the requirements to be an Eagle Scout and kicking him out instead because he is gay is absolutely a hateful thing to do, and that's the Boy Scouts policy.

Teaching kids that the proper way to treat their gay peers is to ban them from their scouting organization is absolutely a hateful thing to do.; 1/28/13, 8:13 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Chickelit wrote:
How do they tell gay members from straight members at that age anyway? Does somebody look?
Scouts can determine their orientation using a compass.
Ha! I am cracking myself up!

(Note cool new Avatar! Cap'n Pike wasn't working for me any longer.); 1/28/13, 8:16 PM
Andy said...: How do they tell gay members from straight members at that age anyway?

Some kids are brave enough to come out in junior high or high school, so for those kids it's probably pretty easy to identify them and throw them out of the Boy Scouts.; 1/28/13, 8:17 PM
Unknown said...: ..... teaching millions of kids that the right thing to do is to adopt hateful policies towards gay kids? ...

I'm an old Eagle Scout and I can affirm 'on my honor' that I never was exposed to a single word of hate. I don't recall homosexuality ever being mentioned. We were called upon to be clean in thought word and deed. I suppose that would be an anathema to Andy R.

We see Catholic dioceses all over the country entering bankruptcy from lawsuits about abuse and molestation by priests. So now we plant another timebomb for the Boy Scouts to have the same crisis and to have the same legal devastation.

Just like the Gay's attack on marriage is not really about equality, Big Gay's attack on the Boy Scouts was never was about the Boy Scouts, it was tearing down one more organization that built citizens with wholesomeness, honor and selflessness. Enter NAMBLA.

Of course, we now live in a society where there are fewer and fewer Fathers there to guide their sons to Manhood. We will be a much impoverished society when the kinds of kids who benefited from Scouting don't have that option.; 1/28/13, 8:17 PM
Bob Ellison said...: I can start a fire with matches and wood, or with champagne and prawns.; 1/28/13, 8:17 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Andy R-
Maybe they could form their own organization called the Gay Scouts?
'Cuz that's what people will be calling the Boy Scouts if they don't.; 1/28/13, 8:18 PM
chickelit said...: Some kids are brave enough to come out in junior high or high school, so for those kids it's probably pretty easy to identify them and throw them out of the Boy Scouts.

Yes, but how specifically? Sexual expression, attraction, etc?. Is that what you're encouraging in middle schoolers?; 1/28/13, 8:19 PM
Unknown said...: Andy is a bigot hater.
Or rather, he thinks everyone is a bigot and he hates everyone.; 1/28/13, 8:20 PM
chickelit said...: I can't remember what year I quit the Boy Scouts, but it was definitely before high school.; 1/28/13, 8:21 PM
garage mahal said...: I laid a lot of easy women in my day. "Any port in a storm", as they say in the Scouts.

Wait, I was never in the Scouts.

NEVERMIND.; 1/28/13, 8:22 PM
Diogenes of Sinope said...: The gay radicals and their supports will be able to cajole BSA executives into compliance. But there is no way they will force the parents of young boys to trust self avowed homosexuals with their sons.; 1/28/13, 8:22 PM
Bob Ellison said...: The thing is, this is a cultural battle. Gays are right to take up rhetorical arms in it. But it is not a debate about rights.; 1/28/13, 8:23 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Andy:

I know. I don't disagree with you; I just hate seeing private organizations being bullied because they don't fall in line with the correct thought of the day, even though it should be.

You know?; 1/28/13, 8:24 PM
Methadras said...: Andy R. said...

It looks like constantly calling the Boy Scouts bigots because of their bigoted policy is working.

Listen you rancid little maggot. Because people don't accept the way you choose to live your life doesn't make them bigots, haters, close-minded, or prejudiced if they reject that lifestyle or don't care about it or don't want it to be a part of their association or culture. Get that through your thick fucking skull you dumb shit.; 1/28/13, 8:24 PM
chickelit said...: @Andy R: For the most part the Boy Scouts is an asexual expression of adolescence and camaraderie. Why would you need to sexualize it?; 1/28/13, 8:24 PM
Andy said...: Yes, but how specifically?

Are you asking if gay people know they are gay in junior high? Yes, some gay people know they are gay in junior high. Some of them tell other people this. Is this somehow confusing to you?

The gay radicals and their supports will be able to cajole BSA executives into compliance. But there is no way they will force the parents of young boys to trust self avowed homosexuals with their sons.

Everyone doesn't hate gay people as much as you do.; 1/28/13, 8:24 PM
chickelit said...: Do you have kids, Andy? Young teens?; 1/28/13, 8:25 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Wyo-sis says:

Andy is a bigot hater.
Or rather, he thinks everyone is a bigot and he hates everyone.

No, he's not--or if he is, he doesn't pay dues or go to the meetings.; 1/28/13, 8:25 PM
Aridog said...: Uh, there is a difference between homosexuals like normal gay men and gay-pedophilia like Sandusky at Penn State. I could care less about the former, and I'd happily kill every last one of the latter.

Is the presumption that gay = pedophile? If so, that's bullshit.; 1/28/13, 8:26 PM
Andy said...: Why would you need to sexualize it?

The Boy Scouts are the ones who sexualized it when they banned gay kids. They are the ones who decided that heterosexual kids are ok and homosexual kids need to be banned.

I hope you understand that being gay doesn't require actually having sex. My hope is that all these junior high kids, straight and gay, aren't actually having sex. (Maybe we've been talking past each other and you think when a junior high kid is gay that means he's had gay sex.); 1/28/13, 8:28 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Of course it does, Methadras. Just like it means Andy's bigoted and close-minded.

Everyone's a bigot about something.; 1/28/13, 8:29 PM
Palladian said...: I hope you understand that being gay doesn't require actually having sex.

You're doing it wrong, then.; 1/28/13, 8:30 PM
Andy said...: By the way, are people defending the right of the Boy Scouts to kick gay kids out, or saying that it's actually good policy to do so.

If all of you just want to make clear that the Boy Scouts have the right to decide on their own policy free from government intervention, then that's fine, although this article doesn't have anything to do with governmental intervention so it's unclear what you think you're responding to.

If you actually support the Boy Scouts in maintaining a policy that gay kids should be thrown out of the scouts, then you're a monster.; 1/28/13, 8:30 PM
Aridog said...: Everyone doesn't hate gay people as much as you do.

Yeah, most of us know assholes from just gay...you've managed a spectacular combination of both. Don't kid your self...you get flak because you are an asshole, gay has zip to do with it. Gay is just a flag you wave to justify your asshole ideas.; 1/28/13, 8:30 PM
Andy said...: Don't kid your self...you get flak because you are an asshole, gay has zip to do with it.

Are all the gay kids being kicked out of the boy scouts all little assholes too?; 1/28/13, 8:32 PM
Palladian said...: The gay radicals and their supports will be able to cajole BSA executives into compliance. But there is no way they will force the parents of young boys to trust self avowed homosexuals with their sons.

And straight men can never be trusted to be around girls!

In fact, men of any kind shouldn't be trusted to even look at children and teenagers!

Because men are all PREDATORS!; 1/28/13, 8:32 PM
Palladian said...: Are all the gay kids being kicked out of the boy scouts all little assholes too?

Maybe Andy R. wouldn't be the nasty asshole he is today if he had been able to be a Boy Scout.; 1/28/13, 8:33 PM
rcocean said...: First comes the gay scouts and scoutmasters,

Then comes the sexual abuse lawsuits;

Then say Goodbye Boy-scouts.

Then Left-wing very happy.; 1/28/13, 8:37 PM
edutcher said...: This will work out as well as the Church allowing those homosexual priests.

The Scouts knew this and saw what was happening.

Like everything else the Lefties touch, it will be destroyed.

Andy R. said...

It looks like constantly calling the Boy Scouts bigots because of their bigoted policy is working.

It worked so well with Chick-Fil-A.

But, again, Hatman is more interested in making everybody do it his way.

He doesn't care how many kids get molested; that will be somebody else's problem. As long as everybody knuckles under is all that counts.

Ernst Rohm would be so proud.; 1/28/13, 8:37 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Stereotypes are so amusing."

There wouldn't be many jokes left without them. If you can't laugh at your own, then you aren't allowed to laugh at any. It's actually in the Constitution somewhere.; 1/28/13, 8:38 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Ernst Rohm was a faggot and chicken hawk--he'd have been all over this indeed. Young men in uniform in tents!

Hurrah!; 1/28/13, 8:39 PM
Palladian said...: There wouldn't be many jokes left without them. If you can't laugh at your own, then you aren't allowed to laugh at any.

The "fabulous!" jokes just aren't funny, is my problem. They're hack. They're tired.; 1/28/13, 8:41 PM
Palladian said...: Ernst Rohm was a faggot and chicken hawk--he'd have been all over this indeed. Young men in uniform in tents!

Straight men never lust over young girls in school uniforms or anything!; 1/28/13, 8:43 PM
Andy said...: It worked so well with Chick-Fil-A.

You're going to be sad when you see their most recent 990's.; 1/28/13, 8:45 PM
bagoh20 said...: I thought all Boy Scouts were already gay anyway. It's right there in the name, and those scarfs! That's not normal.

I was a Cub Scout - very macho. Our Den Mother taught us how to make candles and doilies and she smelled of gin and Kools.; 1/28/13, 8:46 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Did I say straight men didn't?

Of course we do. It's a law or rule or a strongly worded suggestion or something.

I'm not saying all gays are Rohm-like, I was only reacting to the mention of Rohm's name. Nasty little man. Nasty.; 1/28/13, 8:47 PM
Palladian said...: You're going to be sad when you see their most recent 990's.

Andy and his earnestly faggy friends succeed in causing a small, temporary drop in the sale of chicken sandwiches. VICTORY! That's the IMPORTANT POWER OF ACTIVISM!; 1/28/13, 8:47 PM
Wince said...: I suppose you won't have to worry about them eating the Brownies.; 1/28/13, 8:48 PM
Andy said...: Andy and his earnestly faggy friends succeed in causing a small, temporary drop in the sale of chicken sandwiches. VICTORY! That's the IMPORTANT POWER OF ACTIVISM!

Do you know what IRS 990 tax documents are? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't have anything to do with their sales figures.; 1/28/13, 8:49 PM
Palladian said...: I suppose you won't have to worry about them eating the Brownies.

Now see, that's a fresh and funny gay Scout joke!; 1/28/13, 8:49 PM
Palladian said...: Do you know what IRS 990 tax documents are? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't have anything to do with their sales figures.

Ooh, did you and your Occupy pals sic the IRS on the evil chicken sandwich purveyors?!; 1/28/13, 8:50 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: I'm thinking he's trying to insinuate that the Chik fil a-ers have donated money to gay causes.

And I can't believe you think the brownie joke is fresh.; 1/28/13, 8:52 PM
Palladian said...: And I can't believe you think the brownie joke is fresh.

It's better than the "fabulous" jokes anyway!; 1/28/13, 8:53 PM
Palladian said...: I'm thinking he's trying to insinuate that the Chik fil a-ers have donated money to gay causes.

OH MY GOD!; 1/28/13, 8:54 PM
Palladian said...: How will bigots all over the world get their daily ration of pure evil if those fundy chicken sandwich vendors are no longer spreading it on the bread?!; 1/28/13, 8:55 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/28/13, 8:55 PM
Andy said...: By the way, if the way you respond to the Boy Scouts having a policy of throwing gay kids out of the scouts is to complain that a gay guy in a blog comment section is not being polite enough, you sound like a fantastic human being.; 1/28/13, 8:56 PM
Palladian said...: By the way, I didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with being faggy. It's the earnest part that's distasteful. My friends and I are disingenuously faggy, which is a hell of a lot more fun.; 1/28/13, 8:58 PM
edutcher said...: CEO-MMP said...

Ernst Rohm was a faggot and chicken hawk

In the interests of Truth In Advertising, Rohm was a notorious homosexual, to be sure - his behavior disgusted Himmler (which you may or may not take as an endorsement).

Chicken hawk, however, he wasn't. Infantry captain in WWI, twice badly wounded (that's where he got the scars) and holder of the Iron Cross First Class.

He was Dolf's chief leg breaker because he liked it.

Andy R. said...

It worked so well with Chick-Fil-A.

You're going to be sad when you see their most recent 990's.

Their business is through the roof.

And using the T-men for political purposes, even if you are the First Lesbian President, is a big Federal no-no.; 1/28/13, 8:59 PM
Palladian said...: you sound like a fantastic human being.

And your contributions over the years have certainly convinced the rest of us that you are a fantastic human being, noble chicken sandwich fighter!; 1/28/13, 8:59 PM
Patrick said...: Are all the gay kids being kicked out of the boy scouts all little assholes too?

No Andy, just you.; 1/28/13, 8:59 PM
Andy said...: Their business is through the roof.

And using the T-men for political purposes, even if you are the First Lesbian President, is a big Federal no-no.

For those of you who don't know what a 990 form is, please stop embarrassing yourselves.; 1/28/13, 9:00 PM
Palladian said...: Chicken hawk, however, he wasn't. Infantry captain in WWI, twice badly wounded (that's where he got the scars) and holder of the Iron Cross First Class.

Ed, before "chicken hawk" became the term used to taunt non-serving supporters of the military and military engagements, it was used to refer to gay men who have a distinct preference for young (possibly underage) sexual partners.; 1/28/13, 9:01 PM
Roadkill said...: Funny - I would have thought that the Boy Scouts had learned something from the Catholic Church's experience with pederasts in positions of leadership.; 1/28/13, 9:02 PM
Revenant said...: First comes the gay scouts and scoutmasters, then comes the sexual abuse lawsuits

There are already sexual abuse lawsuits against the BSA.

Your fiendishly clever plan of "we will weed out the homosexual pedophiles and rapists by asking them if they are gay" has a subtle flaw: it turns out that pedophiles and rapists are... dishonest.; 1/28/13, 9:02 PM
Palladian said...: For those of you who don't know what a 990 form is, please stop embarrassing yourselves.

Andy Ratso, chicken sandwich warrior and tax law specialist!; 1/28/13, 9:02 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Yes, Rohm was wounded, a hero on the battlefield etc.

On the other hand, if you look you find a lot documentation about his taste for younger men.

Makes him a chicken hawk.

I realize that in recent years chicken hawk has come to mean someone who didn't serve but agitates for war, but it also means a gay man who likes young men (and more rarely a straight man who likes young girls).; 1/28/13, 9:03 PM
Palladian said...: Funny - I would have thought that the Boy Scouts had learned something from the Catholic Church's experience with pederasts in positions of leadership.

Yes, because that's exactly what the Boy Scouts are considering, putting pederasts in positions of leadership!

Because openly gay men are always pederasts, just like openly straight men are always little girl diddlers.; 1/28/13, 9:04 PM
n.n said...: Whether it is through the normalization of women murdering their children or other dysfunctional behaviors, including homosexual behavior, Americans are committing generational genocide.

We will be replaced by people who do not prioritize physical (e.g. recreational sex), material (e.g. money), and ego gratification (i.e. self-esteem) over the basic requirements of evolutionary fitness.

We will be replaced by people who have a better grasp of reality and are capable of self-moderating behavior.

In the meantime, we are exploited by opportunists to advance their political, economic, and social standing.

That said, the homosexual behavior is being normalized for its own sake, but also as a path for heterosexuals to normalize their dysfunctional predilections, most notably murdering their children for the sake of preserving their wealth and welfare, and youthful appearance.

This is how the Left operates and is capable of maintaining cohesion despite their fundamental differences.

Environmentalists who support environmental disruption, following their principle of "out-of-sight and out-of-mind" for profit.

Socialists and "progressives" who support consolidation of capital and power in their hands, whereby they then effect selective redistribution to preserve their superior positions.

Civil rights leaders who support civil rights violations, including redistributive and retributive change.

Human rights leaders who support human rights violations, including elective abortion of a developing human life, and normalizing behaviors which constitute evolutionary dysfunction.; 1/28/13, 9:04 PM
Revenant said...: I would have thought that the Boy Scouts had learned something from the Catholic Church's experience with pederasts in positions of leadership.

You're obviously mistaken. The Catholic Church has banned homosexuals from the priesthood for two thousand years. How could there be pederasts in the Church?; 1/28/13, 9:04 PM
Cedarford said...: THey need to watch it, or they could end up the same as the Catholic church did mired in scandal over homo pederasr chickenhawks making adolescent parishoners their rent boys.

Still, it was one of the greatest ju jitsu moves in media history when gays, progressive Jews decided the narrative would not be gay priest pederasts but "pedophile priests" whose perversion had absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing!!! to do with the fact they were gay and chasing boybait.; 1/28/13, 9:04 PM
edutcher said...: For those interested, Hatman is chortling over the fact Chick-Fil-A is exempt from income tax.

Likely, because they pay capital gains tax.

CEO-MMP said...

Yes, Rohm was wounded, a hero on the battlefield etc.

On the other hand, if you look you find a lot documentation about his taste for younger men.

Makes him a chicken hawk.

I realize that in recent years chicken hawk has come to mean someone who didn't serve but agitates for war, but it also means a gay man who likes young men (and more rarely a straight man who likes young girls).

This is one of those things based on context and era.; 1/28/13, 9:07 PM
Andy said...: Boy Scout files show sex abuse cover-ups

FYI, the sex abuse scandal with the Boy Scouts has already started. I suspect we'll start seeing the Catholic Church style law suits filed soon.; 1/28/13, 9:08 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Wow. Seeford showed up and made this into an issue about the evils of the jooz.; 1/28/13, 9:09 PM
Revenant said...: THey need to watch it, or they could end up the same as the Catholic church did mired in scandal over homo pederasr chickenhawks making adolescent parishoners their rent boys.

If only the Catholic church had thought to ban homosexuals from the priesthood the way the BSA bans them from scouting.

The whole scandal could have been avoided.; 1/28/13, 9:10 PM
Andy said...: For those interested, Hatman is chortling over the fact Chick-Fil-A is exempt from income tax.

No. This is what I was referring to:
"Chick-fil-A tax forms show no donations to anti-gay groups"; 1/28/13, 9:10 PM
Palladian said...: THey need to watch it, or they could end up the same as the Catholic church did mired in scandal over homo pederasr chickenhawks making adolescent parishoners their rent boys.

This is your brain on Testors cement and crushed Vicodin...

Aphasia is no laughing matter, Mein Herr!; 1/28/13, 9:11 PM
Cody Jarrett said...: Is that it? Okay. Cuz there's about 20 different schedules attached to form 990.

He'd have an easier time of it if he'd take simple, small steps to not be such an asshole about stuff he doesn't need to be an asshole about.

There's enough in the world we need to be assholes about.; 1/28/13, 9:12 PM
iowan2 said...: AndyR @8:28

"I hope you understand that being gay doesn't require actually having sex"

Boy scouts do not have a position on having sex, just having morals, Sex with your wife...after you reached the age of majority......after you got married. That's the beginning and end of the sex talk.
The reason gays were not welcomed as members is because Scouts had nothing to offer them. Because the boys you talk about have defined their existence by how they sate their sexual desires. Scouts define themselves by their Motto and Creed.

Please do explain being gay without the act of sex.....Seems to me that is the only definition, none other works.; 1/28/13, 9:12 PM
Revenant said...: I suspect we'll start seeing the Catholic Church style law suits filed soon.

Bonus points if the guy behind the cover-up ends up in charge of international scouting.; 1/28/13, 9:13 PM
Palladian said...: The reason gays were not welcomed as members is because Scouts had nothing to offer them.

LOL. That's the way to promote an organization!; 1/28/13, 9:14 PM
Paul said...: If the BSA does this I will give ZERO support to them for they have then turned away from their moral base.; 1/28/13, 9:15 PM
Revenant said...: No. This is what I was referring to: "Chick-fil-A tax forms show no donations to anti-gay groups"

The Chick-fil-A "buycott" wasn't inspired by its donations to anti-gay groups. It was inspired by Democratic politicians' attempts to punish the company for past donations to anti-gay groups.

Any decent supporter of human rights was on Chick-fil-A's side in that conflict.; 1/28/13, 9:16 PM
Paul said...: If the BSA does this I will give ZERO support to them for they have then turned away from their moral base.; 1/28/13, 9:16 PM
Palladian said...: If the BSA does this I will give ZERO support to them for they have then turned away from their moral base.

So you only support them because they have an exclusionary definition of morality? Wow, they're going to miss that 5 bucks a year I guess.; 1/28/13, 9:23 PM
edutcher said...: Andy R. said...

For those interested, Hatman is chortling over the fact Chick-Fil-A is exempt from income tax.

No. This is what I was referring to:
"Chick-fil-A tax forms show no donations to anti-gay groups"

Then you don't even know what you talking about (there's a surprise).

And this is an issue, why?

PS Rev, the Pope was not the guy behiind the coverups.; 1/28/13, 9:26 PM
bagoh20 said...: ""I hope you understand that being gay doesn't require actually having sex"

Dammit, that was all I thought they had to offer me. OK, I'm straight again. If I'm not getting laid, I might as well enjoy Chick-fil-A without the shame.; 1/28/13, 9:26 PM
iowan2 said...: Pallidian

The scouts core is moral compass.
Minors having sex is not moral.
Thus homosexual children have nothing to take away from Scouting.

But fill in for hatman and separate having sex from being a homosexual

Remember we are talking about children. You are no longer a Boy Scout on you 18th birthday.; 1/28/13, 9:28 PM
Revenant said...: So if it is impossible to be gay without having sex, does that mean a gay guy turns heterosexual again after sex? Or is he gay from then on?

Suppose a guy has some gay sex, but then goes through a moral crisis and decides to stick to women from then on. Does he stay officially gay until he manages to get a woman in bed?; 1/28/13, 9:33 PM
Andy said...: Do people think that virgins don't have a sexuality? Or are all virgins heterosexual?

I'm honestly confused about how people can't understand that junior high kids can be gay before they have had any sexual contant.; 1/28/13, 9:35 PM
edutcher said...: Every time he opens his mouth, we get a vision of Hatman's mind.

Scary.; 1/28/13, 9:42 PM
bagoh20 said...: Well I don't think you know if you are gay or not unless you try both. You just think you know what you are. Would you know if you like chocolate ice cream if you never tried it.

The problem we have is that too many people are 50% virgins.; 1/28/13, 9:45 PM
Revenant said...: Potential Scoutmaster: "So, I'd like to become scoutmaster of a troop."

BSA Rep: "You're not gay, are you?"

PS: "Of course not. I'm a virgin."

BSA: "Well, good."

PS: "I mean, I'm sexually attracted to men."

BSA: "Well, nothing wrong with that."

PS: "Yeah, I like to dream about them having sweaty naked sex with me."

BSA: "Nothing gay about that."

PS: "Well, of course not. I was just making conversation."; 1/28/13, 9:45 PM
Cedarford said...: Andy R. said...
So, what do you care what they do?

Are you seriously wondering why I'm concerned that the Boy Scouts are teaching millions of kids that the right thing to do is to adopt hateful policies towards gay kids?

==================
Generally, parents want their kids in organized groups that reflect the values that the parents wish to inculcate, that are shared by the group they are sent to.

Perhaps they do not want them sent to a group that permits sociopaths that like to torture animals into the group, in the name of "cherished diversity". Or young thugs. Or have a radical Islamist scoutmaster. Or have a Scoutmaster that is a chickenhawk or gay boys that tell them that same sex blowjobs in the tent camps is really fun and a normal thing to do..; 1/28/13, 9:50 PM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: It seems pretty reasonable to me to let the chartering entity make the decision. Parents can vote with their feet. If you want the traditional-morality experience, find a group that's charted by your local Baptist or Mormon church. If you want the gay-friendly experience, look for that. Everyone wins.; 1/28/13, 10:04 PM
President-Mom-Jeans said...: For fuck's sake Andy, it's like even if there is a position that I agree with, your asshole behavior and attitude makes me want to rethink things just to be sure.

You are the least effective advocate for homosexuals possible. Seriously, if you came out (get it, came out?) against Obama I would have to give his policies a second look, because if a bitter douchebag queen like you was against him, he can't be all bad.

You are the anti Big Gay Al, who on South Park was a much much more effective advocate for allowing openly gay scout leaders.; 1/28/13, 10:18 PM
Cedarford said...: Palladian said...
THey need to watch it, or they could end up the same as the Catholic church did mired in scandal over homo pederasr chickenhawks making adolescent parishoners their rent boys.

This is your brain on Testors cement and crushed Vicodin...

Aphasia is no laughing matter, Mein Herr!

===============
They are called typos, you old fat Queen.; 1/28/13, 10:25 PM
Kchiker said...: "For fuck's sake Andy, it's like even if there is a position that I agree with, your asshole behavior and attitude makes me want to rethink things just to be sure."

To his credit, he's not calling straight people pederasts or saying they are hellbent on the destruction of society. I don't think he wins the asshole-of-the-thread award.; 1/28/13, 10:29 PM
Howard said...: The gay hate is a well documented side effect exhibited by those poor souls who are half past straight and a quarter to pederast, biologically speaking. It must be tough fighting urges and hating yourself every day. Mitt Romney is their "dream date" Spank me daddy.; 1/28/13, 10:29 PM
Howard said...: I get it now. If latent teabaggers never support gay marriage or accept gay people out of the closet in everyday no-big-deal life, they themselves will not turn gay and will be spared eternal damnation from their loving, vengeful god.; 1/28/13, 10:36 PM
rcocean said...: "You are the anti Big Gay Al, who on South Park was a much much more effective advocate for allowing openly gay scout leaders."

Big Gay Al is the "fun-loving Fantasy gay" - Andy is the bitter, hate filled, real-life Gay.; 1/28/13, 10:47 PM
rcocean said...: Well, Andy AND Howard. Did you know Steve Jobs hated fried pork AND Gays?
Yet, he was a great man in his own way.

Except as a doctor.; 1/28/13, 10:49 PM
Palladian said...: They are called typos, you old fat Queen.

Who are you calling old, you Nazi?! I'm 37!; 1/28/13, 10:59 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: I get it now. If latent teabaggers never support gay marriage or accept gay people out of the closet in everyday no-big-deal life, they themselves will not turn gay and will be spared eternal damnation from their loving, vengeful god.

Howard, you have precisely described the gay god! Bitchy, vengeful, and completely intolerant of other points of view!; 1/28/13, 11:02 PM
garage mahal said...: Christ, Palladian is just a baby.; 1/28/13, 11:04 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Revenant, you've got the gay thing wrong. They are born that way. It's biology, but there is no biological test which can show 'gayness'. A person can be hetero for their entire life, then one day discover that they were born gay.
But it can never, ever happen the other way. A gay person cannot suddenly discover that he was born straight.

If you believe anything about sexual orientation other than what I have written here, you are a hateful bigot and probably a repressed gay yourself.
It's science. You can't argue with science.; 1/28/13, 11:07 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: It really is extraordinarily simple to anyone who has adolescent children, boys or girls. Do you want relative strangers , who are inclined to be sexually attracted to your children, in close, isolated, contact with your children. It doesn't have a fucking thing to do with politics, bigotry or religion. It's elemental and if you're not a parent there's no way you will ever really understand. I sympathize greatly with Andy's gay Eagle Scout but there is no world in which that kid's feelings trump my kid's physical integrity.; 1/28/13, 11:14 PM
Kchiker said...: "Do you want relative strangers , who are inclined to be sexually attracted to your children, in close, isolated, contact with your children."

Everyone is a stranger before you get to know them. Therefore you will need to shield your child from new classmates (of both sexes), teachers, clergy, neighbors, police, well...everyone ... For their safety.; 1/28/13, 11:25 PM
Revenant said...: It really is extraordinarily simple to anyone who has adolescent children, boys or girls. Do you want relative strangers , who are inclined to be sexually attracted to your children, in close, isolated, contact with your children.

The BSA has allowed women to serve as scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters for a hundred years.

For some odd reason, there doesn't seem to be any outcry at all about these strange women, inclined to be sexually attracted to boys, being allowed in isolated contact with male children.

Strange. It is almost as if the reason you state wasn't a significant factor in the BSA's old policy.; 1/28/13, 11:26 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Not what I meant at all as any parent knows. Moronic straw men do not an argument make.; 1/28/13, 11:28 PM
Kchiker said...: "but there is no world in which that kid's feelings trump my kid's physical integrity"

Your kid is around scores of gay people on a daily basis. Get over it.; 1/28/13, 11:30 PM
Revenant said...: It's biology, but there is no biological test which can show 'gayness'.

What an odd world this would be if "we don't know a biological test for it" was the same thing as "it isn't biological".; 1/28/13, 11:35 PM
Revenant said...: It's elemental and if you're not a parent there's no way you will ever really understand.

If it is "elemental" then troops with gay scoutmasters will never form in the first place. So why worry?

The answer, of course, is that it isn't elemental. Some parents feel hysterical fear at the thought of gay men near their children; others do not.; 1/28/13, 11:39 PM
Palladian said...: Christ, Palladian is just a baby.

I love you garage mahal.; 1/28/13, 11:50 PM
Palladian said...: Do you want relative strangers , who are inclined to be sexually attracted to your children, in close, isolated, contact with your children.

Huh, I thought we were talking about gay and straight people, not pedophiles. Because being sexually attracted to children is pedophilia, which is different than being gay or straight.; 1/28/13, 11:53 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Of course they're around gay people. Also saints, sinners, robbers, rapists, madmen, paragons of virtue, enlightened visionaries , killers, pillars of the community, you name it. If we're out in the world, we all are. I wouldn't have it any other way and I'm certainly no Safety Nazi. Shit, my older son just spent a week as a page in the State Legislature. Talk about a moral sink. You're missing the point because you think it's about gays. It isn't.; 1/28/13, 11:59 PM
MayBee said...: I'm not sure I'd want my Brownie Scout in a troop led by a single 32 year old man.; 1/29/13, 1:09 AM
sonicfrog said...: Please do explain being gay without the act of sex.....

Um..... Are you saying you didn't know you were straight before you got married and had sex with a woman for the first time?

Interesting.

PS. I wonder - does being moraly straight include not having sex before marriage? Because in my scout troop, more than a few of my fellow scouts were having sex, it was known they were, and no one cared. And drinking. Guess it just depends on the sin.; 1/29/13, 1:50 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Revenant wrote:
What an odd world this would be if "we don't know a biological test for it" was the same thing as "it isn't biological".

Not sure what your saying here, Revenant. Who said it wasn't biological?; 1/29/13, 2:22 AM
Dante said...: Well I don't think you know if you are gay or not unless you try both. You just think you know what you are. Would you know if you like chocolate ice cream if you never tried it.

Really? I can't recall ever looking at a guy and thinking "I'd like to 'kiss' him." I've hat that experience with women, like almost every day.; 1/29/13, 2:59 AM
Michael said...: But will AndyR allow them to stop in at Chik-fil-a?; 1/29/13, 5:37 AM
sakredkow said...: It seems pretty reasonable to me to let the chartering entity make the decision. Parents can vote with their feet. If you want the traditional-morality experience, find a group that's charted by your local Baptist or Mormon church. If you want the gay-friendly experience, look for that. Everyone wins.

This is completely sane and rational. You could expect the response "I still boycott them for allowing some BS troops to practice discrimination" which is also completely sane and rational.; 1/29/13, 6:14 AM
sakredkow said...: But will AndyR allow them to stop in at Chik-fil-a?

You conservatives allow AndyR to tell you what you can do? You're even whimpier than I thought.; 1/29/13, 6:16 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: You could expect the response "I still boycott them for allowing some BS troops to practice discrimination" which is also completely sane and rational.

*shrug* Life got a lot easier when I learned to ignore fingerwagging; I suspect the same is true for others. Don't care what other people boycott as long as they don't interfere in my choices.; 1/29/13, 6:23 AM
iowan2 said...: Please do explain being gay without the act of sex.....

"Um..... Are you saying you didn't know you were straight before you got married and had sex with a woman for the first time?
From sonicfrog
Um..... Are you saying you didn't know you were straight before you got married and had sex with a woman for the first time?
Interesting.

PS. I wonder - does being moraly straight include not having sex before marriage? Because in my scout troop, more than a few of my fellow scouts were having sex, it was known they were, and no one cared. And drinking. Guess it just depends on the sin."

Yes thats the response I was looking for.

Its called the BOY Scouts There is a reason it is limited to BOYS. BOYs from puberty (11 yr old) to their 18th birthday (Adult) Its 100+ year history is based on instilling morals and Character traits in BOYS. One reason it is limited to BOYS is to remove sexuality from the experience. Why? because the pure hormonal affect on boys requires a redirection of those natural sexual motivating urges. So you remove the opportunity to act on those urges. Not deny that sexuality exists, But for the weekend or week or two, that part of the human experience is pushed aside to focus on building morals and positive character atributes. A twelve year old boy that declares his total definition of self, is now centered on how he seeks to sate his sexual desires, is 180 degrees out of phase with the Scouting mission.

Your experience with Scouting is drastically different from mine. More that a dozen weeks of camping, countless weekends and over nites and not once did any scout engage in sex with a female and not once did any alcohol enter the picture. It just never happened Outside of Scouting trips? I'm sure it did. They are kids, not robots. Not perfect. But no one is perfect, Scouts is about working towards forming desirable character traits.
While no sex and no booze sullied our outings, lies, theft, selfishness, and other character flaws were present, and dealt with, Those scouts that could not learn "do not steal" where not allowed to stay.
Is it now OK to remove gay 12 year olds that cant learn "thou shall not suck cock"?

And yes it has happened in a tent somewhere. But it is not tolerated. Now we are to accept the behavior that is morally wrong because there is a gay, 'get out of jail free card'.

Again this is about acceptable behavior at scouting functions, while scouts strives to build positive life skills, it is a goal.; 1/29/13, 6:44 AM
sakredkow said...: *shrug* Life got a lot easier when I learned to ignore fingerwagging; I suspect the same is true for others. Don't care what other people boycott as long as they don't interfere in my choices.

I'm with you on that as well. I'm not interested in boycotting anyone at the moment. But whether they boycott ben & jerrys or BSA, that's freedom.; 1/29/13, 6:48 AM
Henry said...: Good for the BSA.; 1/29/13, 7:10 AM
Brian Brown said...: Well considering being gay is in effect a mental disorder, this is certainly disappointing to read.; 1/29/13, 7:22 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Phx, amen brother.; 1/29/13, 7:35 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: The new policy sounds a bit like states rights- what a great idea. Maybe the country should consider using the same policy!; 1/29/13, 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...: Homosexual men have been dying to get their hands on all those clean-cut young boys, and the mothers of gay boys have been dying to pretend that their very troubled boys are normal, and feel that by forcing others to accept their kids at gunpoint is a perfectly way to prove normalcy. Kind of like how gay marriage helps gay adults force people to pretend that they are normal.; 1/29/13, 8:26 AM
pst314 said...: "a policy that has provoked relentless protests"

Provoked?

Only in the liberal mind could it be "provocative" to refuse demands to do what liberals want.; 1/29/13, 8:30 AM
carrie said...: I think it is bigoted to believe that the boy scouts don't have the right to have a policy about gays. Sex is conduct and the boy scouts, like everyone else, has the right to decide a moral code for itself. However, boy scouts are also taught to respect the views of others who disagree with them, so they are not bigoted. The people who don't respect the views of the boy scouts are the bigots. And if the gays wanted to be leaders, they should have founded their own version of the boy scouts that allowed gay leaders which would have been the non-bigoted thing for them to do instead of trying to destroy the boy scouts because they disagreed with them.; 1/29/13, 8:37 AM
SGT Ted said...: I wonder if Andy R. refers to the NAACPs policy of not allowing white leadership as "bigotry". Or if he just isn't bothered by it because the targets of the policy are whites.

Because it rests pretty much on the same sort of criteria used by Scouting USA to exclude gays.

But, then again, selective application of cries of "bigotry" are often nothing more than an attempt to shame others into compliance with a leftists demands.; 1/29/13, 8:39 AM
SGT Ted said...: The bigotry of 99% of the black population voting for the pres because he is black isn't important, nor is it to be called "bigotry".

Nor is the inherent bigotry of those who identify by skin color important or a problem, unless they are white.

Female teachers discriminting against boys isn't "bigotry" either, nor is discrimination in College admittance that harms individual white males.

It is instead, "fairness" to exclude a while boy who grew up in Appalachia with no indoor plumbing in order to give the school slot to a middle class white female or skin color minority.

Thats what the GateKeepers of 'racismsexismhomophobia" tell us. All the Goddamn time.

National Organization for Women, La Raza, NAACP, "Wise Latinas": Diversity!

Promise Keepers for Men, qualifications based on merit, regardless of genetics: Racist, Sexist, Homophobic pigs!

Just like there's "civility bullshit" industry, there is a huge "diversity bullshit" industry that resides on the left.

This is why I have a very jaundiced view towards those whose chief stock in trade is calling others "bigots" for not catering to their desires. It's mostly self-serving bullshit.; 1/29/13, 8:57 AM
Aridog said...: Summary: Andy R. said...

Referring to: "It worked so well with Chick-Fil-A."

You're going to be sad when you see their most recent 990's.

Do you know what IRS 990 tax documents are? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't have anything to do with their sales figures.

For those of you who don't know what a 990 form is, please stop embarrassing yourselves.

No. This is what I was referring to:
"Chick-fil-A tax forms show no donations to anti-gay groups"

Hilarious...Man, you just can't help the asshole bit, can you? You can't get much right either. Chick-Fil-A does NOT file IRS Form 990's. Their philanthropic WinShape Foundation files 990's. It is NOT news that WinShape doesn't support virulent anti-gay organizations. In other words, they don't support "hate groups." That is year 2011 "news"...how is that "most recent?"

Do you think that is upsetting to the straight among us here? That hate groups aren't supported by WinShape? In other words, Andy, you insist we be bigoted like you. You just do not get it that "gay" is not the issue..."obnoxious" is the issue...as well as the bullshit you put out like the IRS form 990 stuff.; 1/29/13, 10:07 AM
Renee said...: Write a neutral based policy against sexual activity.

There is a reason why we don't have co-ed camping.

But that's besides the point.

My friends who were most in protest, were atheists to begin with and had no children.

I hope the organization doesn't fall apart, but I think at times that is really the goal.; 1/29/13, 11:46 AM
sabeth.chu said...: Gay marriage turned up after traditional marriage declined - both as the accepted place to procreate and educate children, and as a point of reference for the relationship between the sexes and the protection of the females. the ancient Greeks after all, cherished gay relationships but never dreamed of gay marriage.
i wonder, I really wonder whether the traditional bonding of heterosexual men - the brothers in arms, the mens clubs, the compadres, the colleagues, etc. - will not be a tougher propositon to crack than modern marriage.
We are living through the decline of the patriarchy, all right, but is it the decline of the bands of brothers? I doubt it very much, but then, I am not male. Anyways, the Boy Scouts are a pretty soft target in that respect.; 1/29/13, 2:04 PM
Sam L. said...: Tolerance--it goes both ways. Or is that a sexual thing I just said?; 1/29/13, 4:03 PM
Ender's Ghost said...: You're going to be sad when you see their most recent 990's.

Sorry to burst your bubble Andy:

Chic-Fil-A still donating to Anti-gay groups; 1/29/13, 4:05 PM
Sam L. said...: "Andy R. said...

So, what do you care what they do?

Are you seriously wondering why I'm concerned that the Boy Scouts are teaching millions of kids that the right thing to do is to adopt hateful policies towards gay kids?"

Not teaching that, Andy, that I've seen.

Agree that the kid whose Eagle rank was denied stinks, but, I don't know why it was denied. So far, only gay leaders are prohibited.; 1/29/13, 4:10 PM