October 22, 2012

Live-blogging the big last debate.

7:06 Central Time: Get ready!

7:32: In the comments, Sorun said, "I predict a big Obama win tonight, since the only people watching will be single women (and Althouse)." Ha ha. Very funny. Right now, we are watching the baseball game. I know there's football too.

8:02: Bob Scheiffer introduces the candidates.

8:04: First question: Libya. Romney talking as Obama keeps an icy stare trained upon him. I don't hear Romney nailing any strong point. He's decided to be conciliatory here for some reason. Obama talking now, stressing liberating the people of Libya after 40 years of despotism.

8:14: Romney: "Attacking me is not an agenda." He corrects Obama about Russia. He certainly wouldn't say to Putin he'll have flexibility after the election. Now, there's a lot of overtalking about Iraq. Obama gains control and talks about being "clear" about foreign policy. The moderator is not intervening, so the topics are allowed to be completely mixed up.

8:17: Obama has picked up Romney's tic of ticking off 5 points.

8:18: Syria. "Syrians are going to have to determine their own future," says Obama. What we see in Syria "is heartbreaking," but it would be "a serious step" to get "more entangled." Romney says "Syria is an opportunity for us." It's "Iran's only ally," but we don't want to get "dragged into a military conflict." Romney's trying to be level-headed and presidential, not to shake anything up here tonight.

 8:21: Romney says we should "be taking the leadership role" in Syria, and Obama picks up that phrase: "We are playing the leadership role."

8:24: Romney doesn't have different ideas about Syria, because we're doing the right thing there, says Obama.

8:25: Egypt: Romney wouldn't have supported Mubarak. Basically, again, Romney agrees with what Obama did. Romney adds some aspirations about the Middle East, but not any real distinction from Obama.

8:29: "What is America's role in the world?" is Bob Schieffer's big, generic question. Romney, "America must be strong. America must lead." Obama says we're "the one indispensable nation... Our alliances have never been stronger."

8:34: They've stopped interrupting each other. No belligerence tonight. There's an evenness and similarity to the 2 candidates (not that there aren't a few disagreements).

8:39: Obama just did some sharp interrupting while Romney was rhapsodizing about education in Massachusetts.

8:43: Romney defends military spending. He emphasizes keeping the numbers of ships and planes up. Obama says Romney doesn't understand how the military works. "We... have fewer horses and bayonets..." he says sarcastically. It's not "a game of Battleship, where we're counting ships."

8:47: Question: Does an attack on Israel count as an attack on the United States? Obama doesn't give a straightforward yes, but says "I will stand with Israel."

8:48: Romney adopts the same "stand with Israel" language. Both stressed military intervention as the last resort.

8:52: Obama says the reports of an agreement with Iran are not true. "We would welcome Iran" into "the community of nations." He chides Romney for acting as though it would work to say the same things but say them "louder."

8:54: Iran "saw weakness," Romney said, harkening back to Obama's campaign 2008 statements about willingness to sit down with the leaders of Iran (and other places). Obama was silent on Iran's Green Revolution. Obama said he'd put "daylight" between the U.S. and Israel, and that encouraged Iran's defiance. We need to "show strength." We need the tightest possible sanctions. We need to indict Ahmadinejad.

8:57: Everything Romney just said is untrue, according to Obama, who claims he was "very clear" about the Green Revolution.

8:58: Romney: "The reason I called it an apology tour... You said America had been dismissive and derisive... America has not 'dictated to other nations.' America has freed other nations."

9:01: Schieffer wants to know what we'd do if Israel called up and said our bombers are on the way to Israel, and Romney rejects the hypothetical. That's not the relationship we have. It wouldn't play out like that.

9:06: Romney assures us we'll bring our troops out of Afghanistan by 2014. But what if the Afghans aren't ready? That was the question. Obama ignores the question the same way.

9:11: "Is it time for us to divorce Pakistan?" asks Bob Schieffer. Romney: No, it's too important — nuclear weapons, terrorists.

9:13: Romney is asked about drone strikes, and he completely supports Obama's policy.

9:18: Obama defends fighting China when it dumped cheap tires here. Romney doesn't want "protectionism" against China, but finding mutual interests with China: We want a stable world, "but you've got to play by the rules." And Romney wants to declare China a "currency manipulator." Romney explains why that makes sense. "I want a great relationship with China" but "they can't roll all over us."

9:26: Lots of fighting over the auto industry. Obama says check the record and a bit later Romney says check the record. Romney's point is that government should not invest in business, while Obama is accusing him of willingness to let the auto companies go into liquidation.

9:30: Romney wants to get the private sector growing, which isn't done by hiring a lot of teachers, though he certainly does love teachers. Schieffer, rushing toward the finish line, says "I think we all love teachers," and announces it's time for closing statements.

9:36: Closing statements. Bob Schieffer ends with his mom's advice: Go vote.

9:40: Michelle Obama comes onto stage to greet Obama and about 10 Romney people — including a lot of kids — come up to hang out with Romney.

9:44: I watched on CNN (with that damn graph on the bottom showing how undecided males and females reacted to each moment), and afterwards James Carville yammered so much about how Obama won that I turned it off. I didn't think either candidate won. They seemed surprisingly similar. Obama certainly maintained eye contact. If it was an eye contact contest, Obama won.

9:52: Here's my bottom line: By adopting a strategy of only modestly challenging Obama and mostly seeming the same as Obama on foreign policy, Romney neutralized foreign policy as an issue and kept the election focus on the economy. He even refocused the discussion on the economy whenever he could over the course of the evening. The election is about the economy, and nothing either candidate said tonight will change that. The only way Obama really could have won is if Romney had tumbled into some kind of exploitable gaffe. That didn't happen.

941 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   601 – 800 of 941   Newer›   Newest»
AlanKH said...

Mitt screwed up Libya. He should have recited the changing stories - and the news that they were watching the attacks live on Drone TV and sitting on their hands and not doing anything.

He botched Syria too - if he read the right Internet eggheads he'd know that US arms are getting to al-Qaeda rebels in Syria.

One highlight was Mitt bringing up the the apology tour - pointed out the mockery Obama made of his office and out alliance with Israel.

clint said...

"Attacking me is not an agenda."

Perhaps the most important line of the night -- and he repeated it.

It has the potential to remind voters, every time they see an Obama attack ad, that Obama has yet to present a 2nd term agenda. (Except for his tax increase.)

Also loved Romney "calling his shots" on Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Probably didn't jump out to the undecided voter, but you just know that the Obama camp heard the subtext loud and clear: Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are in play.

Indigo Red said...

And the Marines still use bayonets. In fact, a Marine unit made an old time bayonet charge during the Iraq War in Baghdad - scared the crap out of the enemy.

Michael said...

Bag is actually comparing Obama to Gordon Gecko as a defense in Romney's favor.

Absolutely surreal."

Dude you are off your game. Bag is mocking your man as a sleazeball


Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Soundbite of the evening.
"This nation---ME!"


Obama also said that the country is a lot better off since he took office.

He even stumbled a little while saying it.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

"Attacking me is not an agenda."

Yeah! Yeah! Right on!11!! Because attacking Obama IS!!1!!1!

Only attack Obama allowed no allow attack Romney.

Mitch H. said...

Axelrod just tried to defend Obama's bullshit about bayonets. Pair of morons.

Anonymous said...

"Memory buffering ||||||||||||| 20%"

That is Good.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Dude you are off your game. Bag is mocking your man as a sleazeball.

Good luck playing the "Mitt has integrity in dealing honestly with voters" game.

Chip Ahoy said...

I learned a new phrase yesterday from insty, 'gas lighting'

Knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis?

That why liberals interrupt so much. Real reality is offensive and must be ninja'ed immediately ))) whack ((( samurai sword cut. So an ordinary conversation amounts to ))) whack (((
))) whack (((
))) whack ((( it drives me insane. The non sequiturs are amazing. Just cleaning them up takes all the time. So nowhere gets gotten to. Ever. Incidentally, gotten is a word that drives British people nuts. When they hear it they go yikes. It will be on any word-gripe list you might find, more than once if people are chiming in.

Synova said...

"9:40: Michelle Obama comes onto stage to greet Obama and about 10 Romney people — including a lot of kids — come up to hang out with Romney."

I noticed that, too. Doesn't it seem like the Obamas don't have much family? And I suppose it's a school night or something.

I probably have to denounce myself or something but when everyone went up to the stage I thought... why is everyone up there white?

Patrick said...

Alan, I think you're right on the substance, but that is pretty inside baseball. It appeals to me, but undecided swing voters, not so much.

Chuck66 said...

Indigo....I know a couple of active duty Marines. They have very intense personalities and stature. If I was on the receiving end of a Marine bayonet charge, I would sh*t my pants and reconsider the whole jihad thing.

Shouting Thomas said...

Mitt screwed up Libya. He should have recited the changing stories - and the news that they were watching the attacks live on Drone TV and sitting on their hands and not doing anything.

Romney had the opportunity. He wanted nothing to do with the Benghazi biz.

I thought he would use it, but apparently, Romney saw more negatives than positives in that strategy.

furious_a said...

"It has the potential to remind voters, every time they see an Obama attack ad, that Obama has yet to present a 2nd term agenda. (Except for his tax increase.)"

H*ll, Obama has yet to get a budget voted into law (almost 1,300 days and counting).

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Alan said...
Mitt screwed up Libya.


No. He recognizes that the whole line of attack is complete BS, which was exposed as such in the last debate.

DADvocate said...

I could have said boats are what you get into when the ship sinks.

Ships are too big to be picked up by other ships. Boats can be picked up. My brother served on a sub tender (USS Frank Cable, a plank owner.) Subs are boats, although you can't really pick up the newer subs.

Anonymous said...
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edutcher said...

Consensus seems to be the Romster looked Presidential and, Oop notwithstanding, wouldn't be a reckless C-in-C.

Which is all he really wanted.

Zero looked small and petty a lot of the time. Tried swinging for the fences and whiffed.

With OH evening up, I'd say Game, Set, Match.

Matt Sablan said...

"No. He recognizes that the whole line of attack is complete BS, which was exposed as such in the last debate."

-- The line of attack the moderator got on national TV to admit he was right about? That point?

Anonymous said...
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wyo sis said...

Oh, how people only hear what they want to hear.

So far Mitt is right on every controversial point. Factcheckers.

Anonymous said...

Reasonable, he didn't attack on Benghazi, because he knows Obama administration went by what the CIA told them, it's on record.

Dr Weevil said...

Someone is surprised that "the businessman has contempt for someone's ability to raise money" when the latter is a fundraiser? Someone apparently doesn't know the difference between making money by offering goods or services worth at least what is paid for them (business) and getting money by talking about yourself or your plans or something else totally vague (political fundraising). I think a lot of people who are good at the former despise those who are only good at the latter, and they are right to do so.

Anonymous said...

So drones are GOOD now, right?

Shouting Thomas said...

The term "fact checkers" has ceased to have any meaning.

For both sides, it simply means people who agree with me.

edutcher said...

Chip Ahoy said...

I learned a new phrase yesterday from insty, 'gas lighting'

Knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis knowwhatitis?


Charles Boyer, Ingrid Bergman, 1944.

wyo sis said...

Krauthammer:
Romney went large.
Obama went small.

Yes, that.

Matt Sablan said...

"Reasonable, he didn't attack on Benghazi, because he knows Obama administration went by what the CIA told them, it's on record."

-- The more you know.

Titus said...

Shouting is probably the most pragmatic poster here.

Go Shouting.

Shouting has been through the rain and seen the rainbow.

Synova said...

"Axelrod just tried to defend Obama's bullshit about bayonets. Pair of morons."

Not much point in defending something that's not bullshit.

All snark about name tape locations aside, and never mind my particular preferences and loyalties, but how is the Navy not essential now *because* of the future global geo-political reality? We didn't have the sense to build a permanent base in Iraq which, quite obviously, limits our access to that vital geo-political region. Where are we going to stage out of if need be? Okinawa?

I was shocked that Obama seemed to be convinced that the Navy was a case of horses and bayonets.

Anonymous said...

No one KNOWS how Romney would be as President, he has flip flopped one too many times. He was against announcing getting out of Afghanistan in 2014 before he was for it, tonight.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Someone apparently doesn't know the difference between making money by offering goods or services worth at least what is paid for them (business) and getting money by talking about yourself or your plans or something else totally vague (political fundraising). I think a lot of people who are good at the former despise those who are only good at the latter, and they are right to do so.

Lol.

(Wonders what added value Romney got out of the companies he sold off for spare parts).

jr565 said...

Obama looked like an idiot when it came to denying that he he wanted a status of forces agreement and that wasn't a loss. Remember when Biden bet his vice presidency on extending the SODA?

Mr. Biden also predicted that the Americans could work out a deal with a government led by Mr. Maliki. “Maliki wants us to stick around because he does not see a future in Iraq otherwise,” Mr. Biden said. “I’ll bet you my vice presidency Maliki will extend the SOFA,” he added, referring to the Status of Forces Agreement the Obama administration hoped to negotiate.

wyo sis said...

Is or is not the Middle East surrounded by water?
Will or will not a blockade involve the Navy?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
-- The line of attack the moderator got on national TV to admit he was right about? That point?


Romney is smart, in the same way a used car dealer is smart. If it was either true or an effective line of attack he would not have given up so easily. Again, the Republican propaganda on Libya was complete BS.

Chuck66 said...

Pundits seemed to agree that Romney didn't want to sound too hawkish in front of a war-weary country.

A good line though, would have been for Romney to remind Obama that the President used a spying program to find OBL. A spying program that Obama canceled soon after taking office to appease the paranoid left.

Matt Sablan said...

Reasonable: Then why did Crowley clarify that Romney was right? Romney didn't go after Libya because that horse has been beaten dead.

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

Mitt screwed up Libya.

No. He recognizes that the whole line of attack is complete BS, which was exposed as such in the last debate.


You mean the one where Sasquatch later admitted she was wrong?

The fact that Schieffer had to listen to a guy say yesterday Barry saw what was happening and went back to bed means the cat is out of the bag.

In the end, the Romster didn't need to do anything. The damage is already done.

Anonymous said...

Romney played it like a chess match. He was ahead on points, so he played for the draw, while watching for opportunities.

Obama played like he was behind on points and trying to stir stuff up without risking a loss.

I would have liked it if Romney had brought the hammer down on Benghazi, but it was probably preferable that he didn't. There is no stopping the Benghazi scandal now. Romney is better off letting surrogates and the media handle that.

Romney's goal seemed to be to look presidential and leave a good feeling behind with voters.

I think he did.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
No one KNOWS how Romney would be as President, he has flip flopped one too many times. He was against announcing getting out of Afghanistan in 2014 before he was for it, tonight.


The hilarious thing is hard-core Republicans are the most confused of all. He pretty much threw the entire Republican propaganda machine under the bus tonight. He was one small step from endorsing Obama for president tonight.

Synova said...

There was no chance that Obama wasn't prepared for any Benghazi discussion that could have come up. Probably was ready to get all self-righteously angry again, even if his facts weren't right, and they weren't last time.

It didn't hurt Romney at all to avoid it.

Chuck66 said...

Hey liberals, many of us true center-right Republicans have said that we look forward to calling Romney a RINO 2 years from now.

Anonymous said...
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Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

creeley23 said...
There is no stopping the Benghazi scandal now.


It is not just stopped, it is dead and Romney knows it.

Titus said...

Neither won.

A majority of Americans are not as concerned about foreign affairs. They are concerned about the economy and jobs.

I don't care for Obama, I wish the economy was better and we had more jobs in this U.S. But Romney is just a complete and total liar and flip flopper I have no idea what he will support as president.

Yes, Romney isn't Obama and that is enough. But what is Romney going to stand for and what is Obama going to do in the next four years-I have no idea.

Personally, I think they are both pretty bad.

Anonymous said...

Yes, because Romney didn't have a leg to stand on, regarding Benghazi. Republicans are going to back away from Benghazi fast now, watch.

I'm Full of Soup said...

Obama is one arrogant SOB to use that "bayonet" line on Romney? For a person who knows as little as Obama does about the real world, he is extremely deluded about what he thinks he knows.

Synova said...

"He was one small step from endorsing Obama for president tonight."

Romney as a radical conservative was a liberal fever dream, not a Republican one.

Was he supposed to knee-jerk and take the polar position to anything Obama said? Or try to present himself as someone who will work with Democrats instead of telling them to shut up?

Matt Sablan said...

Like Fast and the Furious, the fact that people died and not a single political official suffered save the whistle blowers, in any other administration, would be recognized as a political tragedy. For Obama, it's just not optimal.

Anonymous said...

Hell no Obama won big time.

Anonymous said...

One of the candidates was talking to his ego, I, I, I, me, me, me. One of the candidates acted as a representative of the American people, We, We, We, us, us, us. I am going with the we's and us's.

Matt Sablan said...

Inga: Did you read the link I provided that explained the CIA doubted the veracity of the protest story from day one? Or any of the recent news that the administration watched as the attack happened?

No one should be under the impression that the administration was not fully aware this was a massed attack with no bearing what-so-ever on the rumored riots of mobs that did not exist over a movie that they hadn't seen.

Petunia said...

It's the lying OBAMA administration, not Governor Romney, who doesn't have a leg to stand on re Libya.

Anonymous said...

Not because Obama was so great, but because Romney was a flip flopper extraordinaire.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's comforting to know that Obama set out a nice agenda for ROmney to co-opt.

If Romney wins, it sounds like he'll want Obama as a consultant.

jungatheart said...

Romney played it perfectly, stating where he agreed with Obama, while drawing distinctions. Didn't go into hawk mode. Big win.

Wince said...

Inga said...
Reasonable, he didn't attack on Benghazi, because he knows Obama administration went by what the CIA told them, it's on record.

Romney simply played it safe. Romney knows Obama right now holds all the down cards on Benghazi. It's up to Congress and what's left of the press to reveal the truth about the CIA's "Do I look fat" briefing the Obama administration is now waving around.

Synova said...

"Republicans are going to back away from Benghazi fast now, watch."

I doubt it. Why were the extra security and response teams withdrawn from a clearly dangerous country? Why didn't anyone else at least mobilize and head that direction? Why did the administration bleat for weeks about an internet video?

Nothing has changed.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Didn't go into hawk mode.

"Mode"? Is there a switch that flicks that? Jutting out of his back?

Is it coin-operated? Can it be activated with enough donor-dollars?

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Romney ask that question Synova?

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, because Romney didn't have a leg to stand on, regarding Benghazi. Republicans are going to back away from Benghazi fast now, watch.

Don't think so. I think that Romney has just decided to leave this to his surrogates.

Hagar said...

Well, the Professor may be right in this being Romney's strategery, and a successful one.
Being European born and raised, and of a seafaring nation, foreign policy will almost always trump all other considerations, and I thought Romney's "me too" strategy for this debate was very disappointing.
But maybe it will work in Msssachusetts.

Matt Sablan said...

"If Romney wins, it sounds like he'll want Obama as a consultant."

-- Much like Obama continued much of Bush's foreign policy. In America, our foreign policy has a lot of continuity because of the reality on the ground. Democrats just don't have to deal with as hostile a press over it.

mark said...

@Inga ... "Republicans are going to back away from Benghazi"

Not really. Nothing like trusting an administration watch american's get murdered for 6 hours. Do nothing. And lie about what happened.

Yeah. Obama and his guys would be GREAT for dealing with an Iran/Al-Qaeda nuclear bomb.

And as a reminder. You said you wouldn't vote for Obama.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well, it's interesting to know that Shouting Thomas remains fixated on Libya -- a country he knows nothing about.

Anonymous said...

Romney is Obama's Mini Me!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
Romney tried to stay safe tonight, he did.


The safest thing to do was to disavow all the nutty Republican talking points on foreign policy and agree with the President and his sane policies, which he did.

Synova said...

I mean... did anyone actually notice that Romney said the word "bankruptcy?"

jr565 said...

Obama was completely full of crap on romneys position on Detroit and outright lied on his position. I suppose if Crowley were running the debate she would chime in and say that Obama was wrong.. Oh wait, that wouldn't happen.

But at any rate, here's the bit in romneys editorial that proves Obama to be a liar.
"The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."


The fact that Obama keeps harping on this suggests that he really doesn't understand how bankruptcies work, or that he's a rank dragonflies (or both).

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Obama may have won this debate but his Benghazi failure, like his economic policy failures, cannot be etch a sketchd in one hour and a half.

Anonymous said...
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DADvocate said...

No one knows how Romney would be as president, but we know how Obama would be - a fuck up.

edutcher said...

Dr K is calling this one for the Romster - unequivocally.

That's gonna leave a mark.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Well, it's interesting to know that Shouting Thomas remains fixated on Libya -- a country he knows nothing about

Unlike Ritmo, who summered with the Kadaffys

Synova said...

"...disavow all the nutty Republican talking points..."

Those are all the nutty Republican talking points that are part of the Democrat talking points about Republicans... right?

Every time Obama started in on Romne's supposed ideas I couldn't help but think he was quoting points from his own campaign commercials.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas said...
Republicans are going to back away from Benghazi fast now, watch.

Don't think so. I think that Romney has just decided to leave this to his surrogates.


Yes , he's perfectly happy for them to look like dummies. Not a team player our Mitt.

Hagar said...

And Inga and Ritmo,

"Winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan" is not going to look like such a great idea if the end result is that the Asian nations go to slinging nukes at each other.

Anonymous said...

I know I said I won't vote for Obama, but I sure as hell won't vote for Romney. I'm still waiting for a few more things to come to light to make up my mind for sure.

mark said...

@Reasonable "President and his sane policies"

???

The ones that mean you replace a stable Egypt with lunatics that rape women reporters in the street for fun?

What awesome policies. Progressives sure are brainy.

Chuck66 said...

Inga...any thoughts about Obama, in direct violation of his campaign promises in 2008, is keeping Gitmo open, and has continues "illegal warrantless domestic spying".

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

And that is what Synova said at 10:09.

Anonymous said...

Hagar, better them slinging nukes at each other than at us.

Anonymous said...

"Hey liberals, many of us true center-right Republicans have said that we look forward to calling Romney a RINO 2 years from now."

Well said Chuck66.

Synova said...

When Romney says "managed bankruptcy" Obama hears Charlie Brown's teacher... bwa bwap bwa bwa bwap bwa bwah...

David said...

Here's my bottom line: By adopting a strategy of only modestly challenging Obama and mostly seeming the same as Obama on foreign policy, Romney neutralized foreign policy as an issue and kept the election focus on the economy. He even refocused the discussion on the economy whenever he could over the course of the evening. The election is about the economy, and nothing either candidate said tonight will change that. The only way Obama really could have won is if Romney had tumbled into some kind of exploitable gaffe. That didn't happen.

That's the conventional wisdom.

I do not agree.

He went into the four corners when he's in a tie. Bad move.

Paddy O said...

"Much like Obama continued much of Bush's foreign policy."

This is a huge point. Because that pretty much explains why there is not much of a difference.

I also think the whole "Romney is a flipflopper" argument is funny since Obama certainly has been everywhere on almost every foreign policy issue since 2008.

Benghazi is tricky because so much is not known. There are a lot of questions and a lot of conflicting answers. The trouble using it in this debate for Romney is that Obama could, literally, make up anything he wants. He could say whatever on it and so could gain the advantage because no one can check and no one would check. The press has no interest in looking at it, so it comes down to Obama being able to make up any answer, and we all know he had a ready answer for it.

Benghazi is something that has to be much more analyzed to get a clear perspective on it, and that won't happen for a while.

ricpic said...

Hey, Titus, you made good sense in your analysis of the two candidates, but what's with "Shouting has been through the rain and seen the rainbow?" Pretentious is bad enough. Meaningless pretentious is a bridge too far.

wyo sis said...

Inga
Sure, Nukes never go outside their designated areas don'tchaknow!

mark said...

@Inga on CIA.

So, Obama is so in touch with his intelligence briefings that for two weeks he didn't know what happened or what was actually going on?

That is your defense.

That he is a fool who doesn't pay attention. Yeah! Put him and his people in charge of keeping Iran from a nuclear bomb.

Anonymous said...

As much as I don't like the Patriot Act, it's saved our asses from terrorist attacks.

Steve Austin said...

Lefts big attack = Mitt is a flip flopper.

They loved pragmatic flip flopping under the flag of Bill Clinton. Was called leadership back then.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

jr565 said...
Obama was completely full of crap on romneys position on Detroit


No, Romney has been very inconsistent in his statements. Surprise!

One of the Romneys resembles the President's remarks.

Anonymous said...

Keep GITMO open.

Anonymous said...

WHAT A VICTORY FOR POTUS OBAMA.

What a victory.

To-night we DESTROYED the GOP and the Romney candidacy.

No woman who watched tonight would EVER vote for Romney.

No minority who watched tonight would EVER vote for Romney.

Every dual-citizen, international (or US citizen of the world) would EVER vote for Romney.

Tonight the GOP died. Tonight was Romney's waterloo.

He is crying, crying, and crying.

Anonymous said...

Lem do you seriously belive O won the debate? It wasn't even close. You're joking...!

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

What happened to Garage?

Did he bail on Obama... he posted Romney would win big... and that was the last post... I think.

mark said...

@Inga "Hagar, better them slinging nukes at each other than at us"

Are you serious?

You think a nuclear war will stay there? Millions dead and "better them then us" = The Obama Way!

Anonymous said...

Mark, who says he didn't know? Perhaps he didnt want to give away sensitive info, unlike Issa did.

jungatheart said...

Romney's Benghazi argument will be laid out in his political ads.

Progressively Defensive said...

The best theme I've ever heard for Romney (one I thought of myself but have heard sometimes on cable, too) is that Obama, by his own measure, spent $4T (in annual deficits under Obama (4 x $1T) to create 4M jobs. Folks ... that is $1,000,000/job created. Even if you just use the stimulus, roughly $1T, that's $250,000/job created. It's insane. Imagine the money paid back very soon - all those jobs and more ... poof.

Romney let's Obama criticize without pointing out how inept he's been including, by Obama's own admission, not evaluating the economy initially correctly.

Anonymous said...

No Mark, I'm not really serious, but how much foreign involvement can this country stand, we are broke!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Paddy O said...
"Much like Obama continued much of Bush's foreign policy."

This is a huge point.


So your claim is that Obama started pointless expensive wars for no good reason, just like Bush. I don't think so.

Obama has tried to clean up the Republican/Bush mess which has required some continuity but otherwise he polices have gone in the exact opposite direction, in the direction of sanity.

Chuck66 said...

inga...correct on the Patriot act. But recall that under Bush 43, we heard non-stop paranoi from the Demomcrats about how Bush was listening in on their phone calls and reading their library records.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Lem do you seriously believe O won the debate?

I expected more from Romney on Benghazi..

edutcher said...

Notice how flat the trolls are tonight?

Nothing new, in fact, a lot that's old and tired.

jungatheart said...

Ritmo, it's called politics. Afghanistan was COIN operated, however. How did that bullshit strategy work out?

Anonymous said...

Edutcher, it's because we know Obama won, handily. Romney made himself look bad with his flip flopping.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

SO did Romney piss excellence tonight or what?

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

There is also the problem that if Romney wins and he is on the record appearing to politicise a tragedy... it could be used against him later on.

So he is probably using caution... meaning, I wont get any red meat.

bagoh20 said...

Romney successfully prevented Obama from disqualifying him and simultaneously prevented Obama from helping himself. This debate didn't change anything except eliminate one more objection to hiring Romney.

MSM win to Obama
Strategic win to Romney.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
Romney's Benghazi argument will be laid out in his political ads.


Basically just acknowledging that it is pure nonsensical propaganda that couldn't stand up to any kind of fact based counter attack.

mark said...

@Inga "... give away sensitive info, unlike Issa did."

Don't you mean like the White House and Obama State Department did?

http://www.world-affairs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/authentic_voices_-_libya.pdf

Anonymous said...

Where does Romney stand, here there everywhere.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:

So drones are GOOD now, right?
why don't you ask Obama that question? Didn't he say we have to stop air raiding villages and killing civilians? Strangely it doesn't seem to bother the left so much these days.


We should've stayed OUT of Libya
Wasn't going into Libya and doing away with the war powers act an Obama policy? Strangely it doesn't seem to bother the left so much these days.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Afghanistan was COIN operated, however. How did that bullshit strategy work out?

Better to demonstrate that in fact then instead of continuing to encourage and whip it up among the electorate - who will then grow to keep expecting it.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Romney's Benghazi argument will be laid out in his political ads.

I hope so... because there is a lot there just waiting to get pickup... like a certain diary CNN found?

Hagar said...

I think Obama said some things that aren't so and a lot of things that are not quite so, and Romney let him get away with it without even trying to protest.
It beats me how this is supposed to make Romney look knowledgeable on either domestic or foreeign policies.

Michael K said...

" Again, the Republican propaganda on Libya was complete BS.
"

No, Obama is too slippery. He will lie and sorting the facts from his BS takes hours. On the issue he loses big time.

Romney didn't want to get into the weeds. He is the next president and will sort it out then./

jungatheart said...

"Basically just acknowledging that it is pure nonsensical propaganda that couldn't stand up to any kind of fact based counter attack."

No. Using the right tool for the right job.

wyo sis said...

Romney won on debate excellence.
Romney won on substance.
Romney won on knowing what he's talking about.
Yes, Romney pisses excellence.
Obama's just pissy.

Synova said...

"Romney made himself look bad with his flip flopping."

It's nuance when Democrats do it.

And really... it's not a "flip flop" if Romney's supposed starting position is whatever Obama says it is.

Honest, what I heard when Obama was incoherently explaining how Romney had ideas all over the place that contradicted each other was Obama saying, "I don't understand complicated things."

YMMV

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Romney's Benghazi argument will be laid out in his political ads.

Translation: It's easier to lie over the airwaves than in a debate where your opponent can call you on it.

Roberto said...

do any of you teabaggers recognize the guy saying he was mitt romney?

Synova said...

I expect that those who like Obama thought he did just fine.

Those who like or tolerate Romney thought he did just fine.

But I'm glad I wasn't drinking something when Obama said "America... ME...my administration" because I don't think I could get Obama to replace my keyboard.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Romney won on debate excellence.
Romney won on substance.
Romney won on knowing what he's talking about.
Yes, Romney pisses excellence.


Wow wyo -- sounds like you were close enough to taste it... And that you might have even liked it.

I wonder what would Katy Perry say?

Known Unknown said...

WHAT A VICTORY FOR POTUS OBAMA.

What a victory.

To-night we DESTROYED the GOP and the Romney candidacy.

No woman who watched tonight would EVER vote for Romney.

No minority who watched tonight would EVER vote for Romney.

Every dual-citizen, international (or US citizen of the world) would EVER vote for Romney.

Tonight the GOP died. Tonight was Romney's waterloo.

He is crying, crying, and crying.


AP signed in under the wrong username!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
Notice how flat the trolls are tonight?

Nothing new, in fact, a lot that's old and tired.


Yes the Republican trolls have been pretty much defeated by the Romney's 'me too' strategy. He sounded nothing like the blow-hards on FOX News, because he knows how stupid those people sound to the reality based community.

Synova said...

Sure Roberto, but you can be excused for failing to do so if you mostly watch Democrat political ads.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

do any of you teabaggers recognize the guy saying he was mitt romney?

LOL!

(Assuming they're not as much a bunch of disingenuous liars as he is).

Hell, they probably admire that trait.

wyo sis said...

Ritmo
What Katy Perry would say is how YOU roll.
The rest of us live in reality.

traditionalguy said...

Tonight's Romney was for getting out of the Afghanistan trap...about 10 years late. But better late than never.

Romney made very good sense tonight. He can always change to meet the challenges when they come up.

Every foreign policy move must be a threat to use our big military stick where a victory and a withdrawal strategy are both planned out.

And Romney is a heck of a planner.

john said...

Inga said...
I know I said I won't vote for Obama, but I sure as hell won't vote for Romney. I'm still waiting for a few more things to come to light to make up my mind for sure
.


It might not be too late to register in Florida; you seem like a Rosanne kind of voter.

furious_a said...

I probably have to denounce myself or something but when everyone went up to the stage I thought... why is everyone up there white?

Because the Mittster has five sons and fifteen grandkids. That's alot of Honkeys!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

The rest of us live in reality.

By endorsing and owning the quip of "pissing excellence"?

That's too funny.

Roberto said...

The CEO of GM:
Goal Thermometer

When you step back and look at the bailout, there were two separate presidents, President Bush and President Obama, two Treasury Secretaries, two administrations, that saw the wisdom of how important this industry was to America and its economy.

We comprise between, the automotive industry comprises about 3 to 3.5 percent of the total GDP of this country. So to have essentially ceded the basic infrastructure, manufacturing infrastructure of this country and this industry I think would have been a very short-sighted decision.

Romney's claim that bankruptcy would have been successful without the bailout is like arguing that a car has rolled off the assembly line ready to go just because it has wheels, ignoring that it skipped having the engine installed. If you're just looking at the car from the outside, it might seem plausible. But even a quick glance at the workings show how false it is.

wyo sis said...

Your point.
Your quote.
Trap much.
I guess I fell right in that.
Oh, woe is me.
I feel so silly now.
Not as silly as a person who thinks about how piss tastes, but, you know, silly.

Anonymous said...

Who knows John, I may make up my mind on the way to the polling station, like Althouse !

Synova said...

I really shouldn't bother because there is no point to it, but Romney is not my guy. He's moderate to centrist and always has been. He's not a crusader, never has been. He's not small government, never has been.

He has very little in common with me or my politics other than having a solid understanding of business and how it all works.

If any of you so cleverly expressing surprise at some supposed Romney personality change actually *believe* it, it's because you believe your own liberal propaganda and Obama campaign efforts to define who Romney is.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

traditionalguy said...
And Romney is a heck of a planner.


He didn't plan for the fact that all his contradictory statements are on YouTube. He relying on the fact that lying is so well tolerated in our society. We all grew up with salesmen lying to us on TV and we just accept it. It is a sick situation, but Romney knows his audience.

Anonymous said...

What is all this piss tasting about? Ew.

mark said...

@Progressives ... "Mit is a lie-y liar mc-lie pants"

I'm beginning to think projection as a mental disorder is necessary to be a progressive.

Obama lies on national TV tonight (according to everyone including the NYT) about the bailouts. Lies about Iraq (according to everyone again).

Flips on every campaign promise he made (except making us pay more for energy). Which actually makes each promise a lie.

And Mit is the liar.

Chuck66 said...

Thanksgiving at my parents house....will be all white people. I always thought it was because we are Norweigan-Americans. But I guess it is because we are racists!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well wyo, you can redeem yourself by watching the Talladega Nights story of Ricky Bobby. It's a funny take on people who bluster and believe too much in strengthening their own sense of power. That's where the quote comes from.

garage mahal said...

Did Romney pop a Xanax before the debate? That was an ass lickin there.

Anonymous said...

True Synova, Romney has ALWAYS been a flip flipper, no change at all.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Synova said...
If any of you so cleverly expressing surprise at some supposed Romney personality change actually *believe* it, it's because you believe your own liberal propaganda and Obama campaign efforts to define who Romney is.


Or you could just check the videos. Romney has more personalities than Agent Smith in the Matrix.

Chuck66 said...

Synova...that is how I feel. A wishy washy moderate isn't what this country needs. But if Romney can work to resist Obamacare overreaches, bad judges, and the attacks on Religious equality, I can live with him.

mark said...

My favorite quote from a friend about "To big to fail".

There was a second solution. If they are to big ... rip GM apart. No longer to big to fail. They were just to big.

Anonymous said...

Flop flipper, um, flip flopper.

Shouting Thomas said...

Romney's a RINO. No argument there.

Having "convictions" doesn't impress me. There are times when "convictions" are really important.

This is not one of those times.

What's important now is financial and managerial competence on domestic issues.

"Convictions" are mostly irrelevant.

Known Unknown said...

Romney knows with most independents IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID.

He didn't need to make waves in this debate, which is probably the least watched.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Lol. CHeck out this insta-meme.

Anonymous said...

I thought Biden lost the VP debate.

The lefties crowed and strutted and gloated: "Joe cleaned that punk's clock!

Then Romney's poll numbers went up and Ryan's favorability ratings increased and Biden's dropped.

I thought the last Presidental debate was a draw. But the lefties once again crowed and strutted because "OMG! Obama is BACK!"

And Obama continued to drop in the polls.

Tonight, I think Romney won. But the lefties, again, most predictably, crow and strut and gloat because "Obama was the clear winner!"

We'll see what the polls say. But may I suggest, lefties, that your debate-judging skills have been proven to be a bit lacking in the past month?

Anonymous said...

A Catholic with no convictions, so sad.

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

Notice how flat the trolls are tonight?

Nothing new, in fact, a lot that's old and tired.


Yes the Republican trolls have been pretty much defeated by the Romney's 'me too' strategy. He sounded nothing like the blow-hards on FOX News, because he knows how stupid those people sound to the reality based community.


At what point did the Lefties have anything to do with reality?

Troll ducks the issue.

QED

PS FWIW, KosKidz poll is saying more people willing to switch to the Romster than Barry.

By 5 points.

Now you know why the trolls are just blathering on.

wyo sis said...

And now months after Romney got the votes, we are in the same place. Is Romney ideal?
No
Is he better than Obama?
Hell yes!
Can we move from Romney to real conservatives?
Yes

Roberto said...

so what's the deal now?

is mitt gunning for the job as obama's running mate?

the man has the spine of a jellyfish.

Known Unknown said...

Inga is now just wasting pixels repeating herself.

Known Unknown said...

I didn't realize all of CNN.com was an op-ed page.

Then again, I can be naive.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Can we move from Romney to real conservatives?
Yes


How? His whole deal is "I'm like for everything Obama's for, just a little bit different."

Even a Romney presidential victory is a loss for Tea Partiers.

Shouting Thomas said...

A Catholic with no convictions, so sad.

Odd statement. Voting for president has absolutely nothing to do with my moral and spiritual convictions.

wyo sis said...

Inga thinks "flip flopper" has the same sting against Romney as it had against Kerry.

Anonymous said...

EMD, some things bear repeating.

Shouting Thomas said...

Even a Romney presidential victory is a loss for Tea Partiers.

You've become the new Crack, with your compulsive determination to see the Tea Party in everything.

Romney neither belongs to the Tea Party nor embraces it much.

jr565 said...

I don't want to engage with Ritmo, but he said this:

Talking up the revolution in Iran would have been massively counter-productive. They don't need us to know what to stand for. THey don't need us to antagonize their leadership for them.

Romney & Repub Co. either know this and don't care how many more Iranians would get fatuously killed or just want to sound that MUCH more bluster with their chest-beating.

so you must have a problem then with obamas chest beating (and drone strikes) when it came to Libya and Egypt. Didn't he in fact talk up the revolution in those places, to the point where it makes him look like a weak hypocrite. But at least be consistent

Known Unknown said...

,Inga thinks "flip flopper" has the same sting against Romney as it had against Kerry.

Well, he was for Obamacare before he was against it, technically.

Anonymous said...

Seriously Shouting Thomas, you can compartmentalize your convictions that easily?

JohnJ said...

“Romney's goal seemed to be to look presidential and leave a good feeling behind with voters. I think he did.”

He certainly did--contrast their closing statements.

Chris Wallace, who can be brutal on Romney, seemed astonished by the contrast in their presentation and demeanor. He said that without knowing the two principals, one would have had to assume that Romney was the President.

Known Unknown said...

EMD, some things bear repeating.

The same flip-flop charges could be leveled against most politicians, even Obama.

iIt's a pretty blah reason not to vote for someone.

Paddy O said...

"So your claim is that Obama started pointless expensive wars for no good reason"

No.

My point is that the policies Bush had in place in 2008 was the policies Obama continued in 2009.

I have not made any claims about what Obama would have done had he been president in 2001.

wyo sis said...

Foreign policy is not a place where we can have a complete turn around just because we have a new party in power. We have treaties and promises in place.
There's a bit more to it than can be covered in a sound bite.
That's a lesson Obama has failed to learn. All the talk of how my, I, me changed the world all by myself. Disgusting and dangerous.

sonicfrog said...

I listened to some of the debate tonight.

On the one hand, we have a current President who doesn't quite seem to know where we're going on foreign policy but is conducting an illegal ar through the CIA against Pakistan by use of drones, , and a challenger who wants to "be more influential" which means installing friendly governments - never mind the people in the region have been throwing our previously installed governments out of power - in the and doing another Charlies War, which created Osama Bin Laden and a Taliban ruled Afghanistan, but who cares about details!

We are so screwed.

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm not doing any compartmentalizing.

You are mistaken in your notion that government, or elections are about "convictions."

I rejected the premise of your argument.

Synova said...

"True Synova, Romney has ALWAYS been a flip flipper, no change at all."

He had been, more or less. But as I said, if a Democrat does it then it's nuance. Legitimately there are issues where context matters. Palin more or less signed what her legislature sent (with the exception of a measure to deny same-sex partner benefits, which she vetoed) on the theory that what the people, represented by their elected representatives want, is her job to approve. Romney seems to have been that way, working with his 80-some percent Democrat state representatives instead of automatically in opposition to them. And a separation of state and federal contexts is appropriate, too. That he thinks that states should do bunches of stuff that I think is unwise or unnecessary doesn't mean that he must also think that the federal government should do those same things.

Romney is who he is and has been. He's not likely to push social agendas no matter his own feelings if those agendas don't have general support. He's unlikely to make everything into power dramas where he announces that he won and the losers can get out of the way.

The change will be refreshing.

Known Unknown said...

Inga, concern trolling over religious convictions.

Funny.

garage mahal said...

CNN trots another debate poll admitting oversampling Republicans, yet again, showing Obama winning +8, as a "no clear winner"

LOL. Your liberal media hard at work.

Chuck66 said...

EMD...that headline and story were writting before the debate. The editor just had to press "submit" on the CNN computer.

Anonymous said...

Seriously EMD? To change positions at the drop of a hat does not worry you about Romney? I realize everyone flip flops at times, but his flip flops are monumental. Everything in degrees.

Teri said...

Romney does not have to work on Benghazi. Sean Smith's mother is not going to let this administration get away with a coverup. Remember Cindy Sheehan? Grieving mothers are capable of turning the spotlight on what happened to their sons.

Known Unknown said...

Seriously EMD? To change positions at the drop of a hat does not worry you about Romney?

Please enumerate the position changes Romney has made, the timeframes within the changes occurred, and the immediate impact positive and/or negative that resulted in the changed positions.

Then compare and contrast with any other elected official, like Obama.





Teri said...

Romney does not have to work on Benghazi. Sean Smith's mother is not going to let this administration get away with a coverup. Remember Cindy Sheehan? Grieving mothers are capable of turning the spotlight on what happened to their sons.

garage mahal said...

BENGHAZI

Synova said...

"Romney neither belongs to the Tea Party nor embraces it much."

The Democrats have built a straw-Romney full of frightening extremes and dangers. Once in a while they'll let the ruse slip and ask why anyone of a Tea Party inclination, or libertarian lean, or otherwise conservative bent would vote for someone so profoundly moderate. And then they'll start on how Paul Ryan is a Randian radical, like no one noticed the slip.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

When financial competence and management are the key issues, a sane person changes course continually as events and conditions change.

The issue here is to respond to what doesn't work by dumping it, and to respond to what works by embracing it and expanding upon it.

Obama certainly has "convictions" when it comes to financial competence and management. He refuses to acknowledge when financial projects fail (i.e., Solyndra) and just continues to do the same thing without regard to the financial reality he encounters.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:

A Catholic with no convictions, so sad.

was this in reference to Joe Biden. Yes, it is sad.

d said...

"He didn't need to make waves in this debate, which is probably the least watched."


Exactly. The last thing he needed was to provide memorable sound bites. Obama declared that sequestration (mandatory military cuts already enacted by Congress) would not proceed; Axelrod is walking that back.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Shouting believes that political action is the best place to apply one's immorality, starting with himself.

Also, MOAR EMPIRES NOw!!!!

Anonymous said...

Abortion. Afghanistan withdrawal. Taxes. I could go on and on.Pre existing conditions, etc, etc.

elyse said...

Obama won debate on substance. Romney had nothing to say. Looked weak and angry at times. Horses and Bayonets forever.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Strawberry fields forever, too.

Seeing Red said...

Chip - Gaslight is a 4 star movie to this day. Ingrid Bergman is breathtakingly beautiful and it's a great story. 1 of Angela Landsbury's 1st roles, too.

Sloanasaurus said...

Romeny easily won this debate strategically. Again, it it would be foolish for Romney to attempt to win the debate on points. If Romney made the petty comments that Obama made the media would be all over him. Remember, Romney has to battle the media as well.

There is really nothing negative the media can say about Romney in this debate. They will cite their insta polls and say Obama won the debate, but that gets you nothing, They cannot replay petty attacks or claim he looked unpresidential or say he isn't ready etc... those are all the things Obama and the media wanted from this debate and did not get.

Plus, the debate allowed Romney to go after Obama over and over on the economy which is always a good strategy.

Known Unknown said...

Abortion. Afghanisatn withdrawal. Taxes. I could go on and on.Pre existing conditions, etc, etc.

Voted against increasing the debt limit; then supported raising it.

Campaigned against the Bush tax cuts; then extended all of them.

Promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term; then proposed trillion dollar deficits.

Vowed the unemployment rate would be below 8% if his stimulus was passed; but then it broke 10%.

Promised shovel ready jobs; then admitted they weren’t shovel ready.

Said if you like your health plan you can keep it; but then threw seniors off Medicare Plus and employers are now saying they’ll dump people onto the public exchange.

Promised to have health care negotiations on live TV, but then reversed himself.

Indicated Bush violated the Constitution; then carried out warrantless wiretaps, indefinite detentions, secret renditions, quadrupled drone attacks, and kept Guantanamo Bay open. Voted against the Patriot Act, but then supported its extension.

Said lobbyists wouldn’t work in the White House; then gave them waivers to work there.

Vowed to take public financing for his 2008 campaign; then refused public financing when he realized he would receive more money without it.

elyse said...

Straw man forever. Obama 2012 Romney 1040

Anonymous said...

lefties, don't use up all your bon mots now. Save some up for Nov. 6.

'Cause I'm sure - just positive - King Putt has it in the bag now, right?

jr565 said...

A reasonable man wrote:

jr565 said...

No, Romney has been very inconsistent in his statements. Surprise!

One of the Romneys resembles the President's remarks.

read again the bolderdpart and then listen again to the charge that the president made concerning romneys position. It's a flat out lie.
Bankruptcy IS a form of help allowing companies protection while they reorganize. And Obama sent the companies through bankruptcy, he just screwed the bond holders to help his constituents. But again, Obama completely LIED about Romneys position. I provided the quote. You have no defense.

Chuck66 said...

I am glad Romney changed his position on abortion, just as I was happy Strom Thurman changed his position on civil rights for Blacks, and Bill Clinton changed his mind about rape.

Sloanasaurus said...

This election is about the economy. Obama wants the electioin to be about Mitt Romney. Obaam was hoping that this debate would make the election more about Mitt - that Mitt was unpresidential; that Mitt wants to start more wars. That Mitt doesn't get it.

But Obama failed because the debate makes it clear that the election is about the economy.

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