Althouse: "International and intercultural marriages are the quickest way to bring about an ideal world of peace."

September 2, 2012

"International and intercultural marriages are the quickest way to bring about an ideal world of peace."

"People should marry across national and cultural boundaries with people from countries they consider to be their enemies so that the world of peace can come that much more quickly."

Wrote Sun Myung Moon. Dead now, at the age of 92.

Remember Moonies? I remember being accosted on a daily basis by these suspiciously friendly people — back in the 1970s in New York City.

37 comments:

mccullough said...: Don DeLillo's Mao II starts off with a mass moonie wedding in Yankee Stadium.; 9/2/12, 2:31 PM
Andy said...: these suspiciously friendly people

Is this a dig at Romney and his religion?; 9/2/12, 2:33 PM
Known Unknown said...: Is this a dig at Romney and his religion?

No, it's a dig at New York City.; 9/2/12, 2:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Actually I think such marriages already help and will continue to do so. Given how mobile people are, no one "should" marry across boundaries; it is happening naturally.

I'll miss natural redheads.; 9/2/12, 3:08 PM
Humperdink said...: Didn't help the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Wiki:Despite what was seen as a betrayal of her family on his behalf, Johnse Hatfield thereafter abandoned the pregnant Roseanna for her cousin, Nancy McCoy, marrying her in 1881.

The war raged on.; 9/2/12, 3:13 PM
Eric said...: Marrying someone from a different country with a different culture just adds a bunch of extra mines to an already dense minefield.; 9/2/12, 3:35 PM
Eric said...: Whatever happened to the Moonies? They used to walk around asking for donations for "my youth group" near my high school, but recently they've been relegated to news articles about some 5000 couple marriage ceremony.; 9/2/12, 3:37 PM
Simon Kenton said...: After a conquest, the Romans granted land in the new province to their retiring legionaries. This replaced the local barbarian nobility with an imposed one loyal to the eternal city. It conferred higher status to have your daughter marry one; higher still to the offspring, who were cives romanes. It was also déclassé to speak the native language, and forbidden in legal/administrative matters. They maintained garrisons, of course; you couldn't rationally expect too much of naked blue-painted savages. But generally speaking - passing over various rebellions - it worked quite well.

I was told that the great observatory in the northern Atacama of Chile was initially and largely stocked with American astronomers. By 18 months, regardless of their matrimonial starting position, all had Chilean wives. Verb. sap.; 9/2/12, 4:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Intermarriage really cemented the ties between the people of the former Yugoslavia.; 9/2/12, 4:03 PM
Fen said...: Premise is flawed.

We don't have conflict between tribes, we have conflict over access to resources.; 9/2/12, 4:05 PM
Howard said...: Oh, yeah. I remember the Moonies every time a teabagger links to the Washington Times.; 9/2/12, 4:11 PM
Eric said...: Oh, yeah. I remember the Moonies every time a teabagger links to the Washington Times.

It's hard to understand why it's so much better than the Post.; 9/2/12, 4:23 PM
edutcher said...: People are still people; look at how many wedding receptions turn into barroom brawls.; 9/2/12, 4:42 PM
Paddy O said...: Dead now, sure, but we'll wait and see if it keeps.

If he's anything more than a self-proclaimed Messiah, he'll be back at things by labor day.; 9/2/12, 5:23 PM
cathy said...: Interesting you posted this. I came here for my daily fix and a break from what all my church family is saying who, like me, are grateful to be a part of his movement and to know what he teaches. Don't know why you posted this except as a notice on some social phenomena. But noticing a religious movement from the outside, is just that, and fine. Anyway, we're based on a tradition and teaching that works for me.; 9/2/12, 5:51 PM
cathy said...: Interesting you posted this. I came here for my daily fix and a break from what all my church family is saying who, like me, are grateful to be a part of his movement and to know what he teaches. Don't know why you posted this except as a notice on some social phenomena. But noticing a religious movement from the outside, is just that, and fine. Anyway, we're based on a tradition and teaching that works for me.; 9/2/12, 5:53 PM
cathy said...: Oh, but nice quote.; 9/2/12, 5:57 PM
madAsHell said...: international and inter-cultural marriages

How'd that work for Stanley Dunham??; 9/2/12, 5:58 PM
Humperdink said...: "How'd that work for Stanley Dunham??"

Not working out to well for the USA either.; 9/2/12, 6:25 PM
dbp said...: ""People should marry across national and cultural boundaries with people from countries they consider to be their enemies so that the world of peace can come that much more quickly.""

There probably is something to this. On the other hand, the effect is diffuse and you, in theory at least, only get married once. So choose somebody that you envision getting along with for a few decades.; 9/2/12, 6:32 PM
rcocean said...: I'm reading Tuabes "why we get fat" but his reasoning doesn't seem to apply to East Asians. Lots of rice but very thin compared to the fat Yanks.; 9/2/12, 8:15 PM
rcocean said...: What's connection to Rev Moon? He's East Asian and probably thin until he came to the USA.; 9/2/12, 8:16 PM
rcocean said...: I'm reading Tuabes "why we get fat" but his reasoning doesn't seem to apply to East Asians. Lots of rice but very thin compared to the fat Yanks.; 9/2/12, 8:16 PM
William said...: Some time back there was a follow up article in the Times about that mass Moonie wedding. It turned out that the overwhelming majority of the couples were still together. Want a lasting marriage? Turns out the secret is to let the Rev. Moon pick out your spouse.......There's something to cross cultural exchanges. I'm fairly obnoxious, but foreign girls attribute that to my being American.; 9/2/12, 8:28 PM
Penny said...: Sometimes great ideas come well before their due date.; 9/2/12, 9:46 PM
Lyle said...: I'm kind of with Rev. Moon on the marriage thing.; 9/2/12, 10:04 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Andy R.,

Is this a dig at Romney and his religion?

No - BUT THIS IS!

You guys are making me really mad - with power!; 9/2/12, 10:22 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/2/12, 11:01 PM
Unknown said...: ""People should marry across national and cultural boundaries with people from countries they consider to be their enemies so that the world of peace can come that much more quickly.""

This is one of the nicer quotes you could choose. The problem isn't with that concept, which I still think is very noble, but with the follow up concept that you should let Rev. Moon pick your spouse for you. He claimed that he had some special sign from God as to who your spouse should be, but it in reality it was more like random acts of romance.

If the couple really hit it off and got along well, that was proof that Rev. Moon was a master matchmaker. If they hated each other, that was proof that Rev. Moon was a master matchmaker (because they could break down so many cultural barriers when they finally loved each other, as it was assumed they would.) If he matched a physical brother and sister together (as he did once) that was proof that he was a master matchmaker because he saw the deep connection between them. (Fortunately the two of them were sent back to the not-yet-matched group when someone hastily whispered in his ear, so no laws were broken.)

I was one of those fresh-faced people on the streets of New York City from 1976 to 1988. I really, truly believed in what I was doing and really, truly wanted to help people and wanted to save the world. However, as I moved out of my teens and twenties and slowed down a little bit I began to see that all of our sincere efforts were just being flushed down the drain by corrupt church leadership.

Don't believe a single statistic from the church on how many couples have stayed together. They don't know; they don't keep records specifically because they don't want anyone to be able to audit them and contradict what they say. Five years ago the headquarters did a “survey” to see what peoples' marital status was. They released their "results" - very positive - but refused to release any of their methodology or raw figures. Anecdotes aren’t evidence, but their claims did not reflect the status of the hundreds of couples that I knew personally.

They can't even define what they call a successful marriage. They count people who have left the church but stayed together as successes. They count couples where one left the church and the other remarried as successes. They count people who hate each other but stay together as successes. They count people who have separated but not divorced as successes. They count people who agree to be married to dead people as successes.

My husband and I lucked out, we like each other reasonably well. Some people are honestly, truly, head-over-heels in love. So many more are grimly holding on in misery, or have given up. Almost half of Rev. Moon’s children’s marriages have ended in divorce or adultery.

My former co-religionists used to snarl at me that I had "left" the church. I told them, no, the church left me.

I don't know what will happen to the church now. The Moon children have been squabbling over the assets - human and financial - for years already, and there was all sorts of deathbed drama, so it's going to be a pretty interesting train wreck. I feel sorry for my friends that are still committed to the church because I know this is going to be a time of sadness and upheaval for them.; 9/2/12, 11:04 PM
Anonymous said...: Claudette Lynge: Thanks very much for your story.

I met a couple of young women from the Unification Church in Boston late 1970s. There had been a recent incident in which locals had attacked several members of the Church. The two women weren't trying to recruit me or sell me anything. They were frightened and wanted to connect person-to-person. Or so it seemed to me. I said hello, commiserated, and moved on.

I don't doubt that many young people who joined Moon's church were sincere. Nor do I doubt that Moon abused their trust.; 9/3/12, 12:31 AM
Nora said...: People should merry whomever they want to merry; and certainly not for reasons of politics, ideology, or whatever reasons other people want them to merry for.; 9/3/12, 12:34 AM
Penny said...: "You guys are making me really mad - with power!"

Calm down, Crack. That's just your cortisol kickin' in.

Again.; 9/3/12, 12:47 AM
Peter said...: I dunno. I came of age during the civil rights/Viet Nam era and I really thought back then that color would be unimportant by the time I was getting old. Well, here I am, a seior citizen and it looks as if it matters more than ever.

Blacks people don't have to ride in the back of the bua anymore. Too bad they get shot at the bus stop... I was in a rifle company, mostly in the bush during that war. In our platoon the various ethnicities were closer than blood. We'd hit the rear areas and it was a (mostly cold) race war.

It's enough to break a heart. Individually some of us get along very well. As groups, it's damned near hopeless. It's enough to make me want to weep for my country.; 9/3/12, 1:13 AM
The Scythian said...: Back in the days of Beowulf, they used to marry off women to those peoples they were at war with. They called these women "peace weavers".

Of course, then you get stuff like the Fight at Finnsburg. The queen got to watch her brother, son, and husband all get killed. It didn't stop the combat, it just made it worse for people with family members in both camps.

This doesn't mean that people shouldn't have international or intercultural marriages, but it won't bring about the ideal of world peace. It is naive to think that combat, even tribal combat, is nothing more than two tribes in conflict because they are different tribes.; 9/3/12, 3:51 AM
Humperdink said...: @Claudette. Very enlightening story. Thanks for sharing it.; 9/3/12, 6:21 AM
Amartel said...: We probably had our share of Moonies hanging around Portland OR but the ones I remember in the late 70s were the Bagwan Shree Rajhneesh freaks. They all wore red and/or orange and they were everywhere downtown one summer. Now THAT was a screwy weird cult.

I think if you try to tell people who to fall in love with, who to marry, you are asking for trouble. It's not the sort of thing that can be directed.; 9/3/12, 4:09 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Two generations of interracial marriage means my son can check all the boxes.; 9/3/12, 8:15 PM