1. Mia Love, an African-American Republican woman, gave a speech and received loud cheers and a standing ovation from almost every single one of the thousands of white Republicans in attendance.
2. Two bozos, of unknown identity, “threw peanuts” at an African-American woman camera operator for CNN, while purportedly saying “This is how we feed animals,” and were ejected from the convention.
Furthermore, there is video proof that the first incident (the standing ovation) happened; while the only evidence we have for the damning details of the second purported incident (at least as of the time of this writing) is the word of a partisan left-wing blog.
September 3, 2012
"Black Woman Gets Standing Ovation at RNC — Media Silence; Two Bozos Throw Peanuts — Media Frenzy."
2 incidents:
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 280 of 280Always love the prevailing thought among conservatives that food stamps make you lazy. But a tax cut to wealthy person makes them more motivated!
I'm not sure why you think this observation is clever. Food stamps reward people for doing nothing, and motivate more doing nothing. Tax breaks reward effort, and motivate more effort.
Yes we're supposed to think how ridiculously hard it is to be poor in America.
Crack. You give many excellent reasons for reversals in the black "community" but i will repeat that thse are reasons not excuses. Black power, as you correcttly note, was the first wrong choice. The worst possible choice of two clear paths.
hrisnavin.com,
Crack, I agree we should address the issue, but how much should we do so through our politics?
Politics is fine, but we have to decide we want real politicians. Look at Romney. A guy born on home plate that we treat like he's hit a Grand Slam. He'll say anything - we know that. He's in a cult - we know that, too. Yet we choose him anyway.
The failure is ours.
One of the moral cores to big State progressivism is slavery. Over at the Nation they're still gathered around John Brown's body. It's all the Democrat party has right now, so they're locked and loaded.
I know - I read everything - and I'm as disgusted by them as I am Hot Air. NOBODY is dedicated to delivering anything but partisanship, which is why we need to put our foot on all their necks. We - through our votes - got us into this. WE have to decide to make it stop.
Until then, prepare to die, because a dead body is all they respect - and even that, not so much.
If you're held in bondage by the laws of civil society, and decisions like Brown v Board of Ed come along, and affirmative action...why not take them...damn the arguments for individual liberty?
Because, ultimately, they kill us. I could've lived in France, but I realized that, if I did so, my desire to be productive, to create, would die just like theirs has. Fuck that, I couldn't have it. I came back here - to the hard work of fending for myself - and kissed the ground for the privilege.
Now - if it really matters to you - go to my blog and make a donation on this Labor Day to help me spread THAT message.
Obama got where he is in large part because he didn't confront whites directly like most of the Old Civil Rights crowd, but simply smiled and charmed his way along and took advantage of the moment (and got helped along by other radical lefties along the way…).
Yeah, the inhuman bastard. I hosted a white friend here in Utah about a month ago. Liberal to the core. We started our day at 9AM and didn't part until 3AM. We talked about everything, from our respective positions, and laughed a lot.
Anyone who would choose to miss that, in favor of manipulation, I don't wanna know and can't get my support.
It STILL might work on Althouse and various other young people and rich white NPR liberals.
Only because nobody's challenging it - any of it, from either "side" - except in the traditional manner.
If I had my way, we'd be "clinging to our guns," but leaving our religion at home - as Malcolm X suggested - and telling these goofballs we're starting over.
Without them.
And we'd be creating America.
Where "we own this place."
Michael,
Crack. You give many excellent reasons for reversals in the black "community" but i will repeat that thse are reasons not excuses. Black power, as you correcttly note, was the first wrong choice. The worst possible choice of two clear paths.
Thanks, Mikey. And I'm glad to see you put "community" in quotes because I don't think that way:
America is my community - all of you and all of it - even the racists on all sides.
We need to learn how to talk about this - how to switch the focus from Romney or Obama to "We The People".
That's what's missing.
Clint Eastwood did us a big favor by beginning to do that.
We - not they - are "the best."
harrogate wrote "Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed"
unfortunately you've bought into the Liberal meme that delegates were trying to drown her out when in fact it erupted as a counterpoint to the Ron Paul people shouting "seat them now"
"As Chairwoman Zori Fonalledas, a delegate from Puerto Rico, tried to start her official business, the Paul people took up a chant of "seat them now!" Other delegates began to shout them down, yelling "USA! USA!" "
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/08/rnc-moment.html
even Univision reported the story correctly "interpretation would fit nicely into the narrative of the Republicans problems appealing to Latinos. But there’s just one problem: that’s not what happened.
Allies of Paul were chanting “seat them now” and “boo,” preventing business from proceeding before Fonalledas took the podium. So Romney delegates decided to drown out the Paul supporters with their own chants of “U-S-A! U-S-A!”"
http://univisionnews.tumblr.com/post/30438152422/republican-national-convention-usa-chant-not-about-puert
The people who threw the peanuts are assholes.
...if they exist. David Shuster is hardly a reliable source.
Know who hasn't apparently really reported it much? CNN.
I'm surprised that Althouse is questioning whether the peanut incident happened at all. According to AP, the Romney campaign apologized for the incident and called it "reprehensible."
Romney doesn't have the time to investigate. Best to apologize as a precaution.
Although, the chants of "USA! USA!" to drown out the Puerta Rican speaker got way *underplayed*, which is to say, almost nobody knows it happened. Why DID it happen?
To protest the rules change by the RNC. And the speaker of Puerto Rico JOINED in the chants.
No, I think that it is laughable (or perhaps pathetic) that the most high-profile black republican female elected official they could find is a small town Utah mayor.
As opposed to the Dems, who have to hide their black women like the plague because the CBC is known to be a collection of absolute idiots and them speaking would embarrass the party?
Yes we're supposed to think how ridiculously hard it is to be poor in America.
Is there any other country where the poor are obese?
this is funny.
EVERYONE gets a standing ovation at the conventions. It is hardly news. Even Romney got one.
That's news.
Pookie Number 2 said...
" Food stamps reward people for doing nothing, and motivate more doing nothing."
What you really meant to say was "food stamps reward BLACK people..." right?
Actually Pookie, foodstamps are used in the majority for feeding kids. You know. Kids. Little folks who like milk and hamburgers - kids.
So we will just put you down as a yes vote for letting kids go hungry. Raise your hand.
Counted.
Let 'em starve.
"Yes we're supposed to think how ridiculously hard it is to be poor in America."
Alex you write as though you are a loathsome fuck of a human being. I hope this is not the case.
"Let 'em starve"
Whether typed in earnest or as an attempt to be ironic, the above quoted comment sums up the experience of reading your posts. Thus, does hope, on the front of hoping Alex is not a loathsome fuck of a human being, sadly, dwindles.
I don't understand this need of liberals to convince themselves that every negative thing a conservative says about excessive government intervention in people's lives is necessarily racist.
harrogate, NUMBER OF FUCKS GIVEN - ZERO.
Look I will never be friends with lefttards ever, so I have no reason to lie to them about what I think should be done to the poor in America.
Alex with the all caps tactic. Works every time, both as an insult and as a persuasion device for third party readers. Alex, master of appeals.
He also doesn't want to be friends with "libtards." Boy, he just keeps coming across as more and more decent and intelligent, doesn't he?
"so I have no reason to lie to them about what I think should be done to the poor in America."
Well, on that count I'll toss you a bone. For verily, that's refreshing. I wish everyone who holds this position were as blatantly honest about it, though the position itself still does make you a loathsome fuck.
As it were.
Lindsey meadows. More whites than blcaks use food stamps. Only liberals think "blacks" when they hear "foodstamps"
What you really meant to say was "food stamps reward BLACK people..." right?
So Lindsey is a bigot. Anybody shocked?
Whites are the majority of welfare cases. Always have been.
"Whites are the majority of welfare cases. Always have been."
Very true. I think the reason this topic so often comes across as racially coded has to do with all the idiotic "Welfare Queen" rhetoric that infected the 80s. Not sure if I can remember where that particular infection started...
In any case, white or black, people who use welfare are human beings first and foremost, with their own stories and problems and difficulties and they on balance know more about "Risk," as the lady said, than any Wall Street investor will ever dream.
And, the judgments about these human beings, they bring to mind the enterprise of carving castles out of smoke, only to wonder why there is no there, there, in the judgments rendered.
In truth, the judgments reflect more about the judgers, than it ever will about the judged.
harrogate - yes I'm waiting for the peasants to storm my luxury condo and hang me from my own balcony. I double dog dare 'em.
Alex,
You keep singing out your bottom feederness for all to see. That's what's most likely to keep people, in general, away from your door.
But as the old horror movie themes used to teach: you can lock your door all you want, but there you are with your loathsome fuckness of a self.
harrogate - oh my what did I do before you came into my life?
Written languages. Libraries.
Just so you know, I'm not talking about 1750 or 1850 for that matter.
If this blog is any indication, you did the same thing you are doing now. Spout nonsense.
they on balance know more about "Risk," as the lady said, than any Wall Street investor will ever dream.
She was ranting about small business owners, but whatever.
harrogate - of course common sense would sound silly to you, silly libtard.
EMD,
I am not so sure she was talking about small business owners, there. Seemed like she and the lady she was arguing with, were not talking about the same exact thing.
But as you suggested (though it seems with the opposite point of view of mine), Not that it matters. You can be acquainted with all three models for some time, and it won't take long to figure out where the highest risks obtain.
For Alex, "let em starve" as a political position in the United States of America is "common sense."
About says it all, doesn't it.
Honestly what's the point in feeding the poor, they just reproduce more Democrat voters.
Those who know a little bit of the history know that black families were making great strides in moving up to middle class status until LBJ's "Great Society" and "War on Poverty."
Can you provide some kind of evidence for this claim other than knowing "a little bit of the history."
Michael said...
"More whites than blcaks use food stamps. Only liberals think "blacks" when they hear "foodstamps""
1. Whites, or in this case "non-black" out number blacks about 7:1 but I'll let that slide (of course there are more whites on food stamps duhhhhh)
2. the the lazy welfare cheat/foodstamp lazy "black" has been a staple of GOP dogbites for years and you know it.
Get with the code.
Welfare Queen" rhetoric that infected the 80s. Not sure if I can remember where that particular infection started...
That particular Welfare Queen was a white women, but they do come in many colors.
I could care less about these welfare queens, they're just gaming a system that anyone else in their shoes would game, too.
The problem isn't the people on welfare, it's the system itself.
2. the the lazy welfare cheat/foodstamp lazy "black" has been a staple of GOP dogbites for years and you know it.
Cites? Links? Proof?
Lindsey hears dog whistles all over the place.
For Alex, "let em starve" as a political position in the United States of America is "common sense."
About says it all, doesn't it.
I blame Harrogate for actually trying to debate/converse with Alex in the first place.
EMD,
Yeah, I blame myself for the same thing. Once again, it seems we agree *almost* as often as we differ,
Why should the food stamp program be continued for even one day?
harrogate said...
For Alex, "let em starve" as a political position in the United States of America is "common sense."
About says it all, doesn't it.
says you're gullible and not much more
Lindsey Meadows. You are the racist. Food stamps means food stamps. You must be a victim of the war on women's brains won by the racist left. Too bad you have such a low regard for blacks. Your loss.
Take the poor and make a Hunger Games out of them. The winners get free food EBT cards for life.
X,
At some point it really doesn't matter if you mean it or not. Indeed, and as I wrote early in the exchange, if he's being ironic that is even worse. That was the point I made, but I have seen no evidence from Alex, on any of these comment boards, of decency.
That was the point I made, but I have seen no evidence from Alex, on any of these comment boards, of decency.
Hint: Not your job to be the Decent Police.
"I'm surprised that Althouse is questioning whether the peanut incident happened at all. According to AP, the Romney campaign apologized for the incident and called it "reprehensible." "
Why did they assume it happened?"
This really seems like an obvious a set up. Hearsay report from lefty outlet with no objective proof + the language used is very progressive-fantasy Republican. Even so, the least bad way to handle this is to get out in front of the issue with an apology. There's no other choice in today's world where many have been taught and encouraged to assume Republican=racist. If you wait for the evidence, evidence will be produced. The camera operator will cry on TV about racist Republicans. Same if you say, well we don't know if this happened but if it did we're sorry. Same if you try to dissociate yourself and your party from a couple of nuts. Only progressives get to fuck up with impunity.
"Hint: Not your job to be the Decent Police."
True enough, and I already ceded the point that I should not have engaged with him. But the comment you quote is in response to someone else who suggests, it seems to me, that the comments in question were not written in earnest. To which my response is, so what?
I mean when you really get down to it, we none of us know one another. What we write here reflects something. It may be that you yourself have called someone out for spouting indecent rhetoric, in your internet discussions. Not sure that would qualify as making you a wannabe policeman of decency.
harro,
he's a double moby and everything he says is ridiculous. and it's such a long-running bit. I can't believe regulars engage him. I will give him credit for one thing though; I have no clue what Alex actually believes.
x,
In the end, yes it's a waste of time. I only recently offered some responses to his comments. But it doesn't matter if he is a double Moby and what he believes matters even less. It's still some ridiculous tripe he puts out there. Sometimes in thinking about online discussions and the personae we all create, it occurs to me that it may not be the worst thing, now and again, for others to point at ridiculous tripe and call it as much. Even at the risk of (gasp!) "feeding the trolls" ("trolls, forevermore, being a relative term).
Or, maybe in the end responding to an Alex is no more than troll feeding. I don't know. Probably will leave it alone from now on, as I was doing before.
Crack I'm all for being a cult of one so to speak. Too bad Clint isn't the candidate, Romney will be a way point along the way to get to a smaller, more limited government and back to the individual in charge of their own life.You have noticed the old bull RINO's aren't exactly enamored of the growing TEA Party insurgency in the GOP which is why I see hope in the GOP. Question: how to break the mental chains you speak of? The idea of millions of people who should be self reliant and productive is morally wrong and economically speaking profoundly stupid. This is not just a race issue, its a class issue.
Economic poverty in this country is a relative thing, millions have come from nothing and made something of themselves. The mystery to me is the millions who just choose to stay where they are and not improve their lot. True not everyone can make themselves wealthy but joining and staying in the middle class is not an impossible goal to achieve in this country for those who attempt it and are willing to do what it takes.
Why is the media so racist? Trying to silence Mia like that. Shame.
Harrow as much as you disagree with Alex, and he can be at times a bit irritating at times he isn't a moby. He simply doesn't share your bedrock belief, an assumption that you take for granted everyone accepts, that a number of people are simply entitled to forcibly extract a measure of wealth from others simply because they need it.
I don't need any defenders, but thanks anyways cubanbob.
No, I don't see why I should be funding welfare recipients for life.
What you really meant to say was "food stamps reward BLACK people..." right?
Goodness, no. I was responding to the silly idea that granting tax breaks has the same economic impact as food stamps. Not sure why color comes into it at all.
hdhouse said...
Mia Love and Condi Rice. Well that's nearly 100% of the republican black women now isn't it?
And quite possibly the only black female votes Romney will get.
================
Getting 100% of the black vote or numbers like 90-98% means that productive blacks as well as parasites and criminal thugs find the Democrat Party speaks to all their common interests.
Which leads to the question what do prductive black engineers have in common with wastrel welfare mammies and their ignorant and stupid-lazy criminal thug offspring.
Its a question that blacks need to explain to themselves. Then tell the rest of us why they elected to wanted to be taken for granted by one party and do not want to be even bothered with by the other party trying to woo them.
Even within the Democrat Party, there is a serious problem with white and hispanic pols that went to the mat time and time again for their black constituencies...risking their own futures in many cases getting blacks money and things not favored by others in the the voting population...
Only to be betrayed enmass by blacks moving to the first black that runs against them in the Primary. The loyalty that whites and hispanics feel they should be due for long-time service to their black constituency disappears at the 1st sight of black skin in one of their primary rivals.
Most famously recently...the case of the Clintons. They found they lost whatever loyalty and gratitude they thought they should have had from blacks.
And liberals call the black pack vote the stamp of absolute moral authority???
Bwaaaah!!!
In the meantime, if I was a Republican and I had 50,000 to spend on recruiting new voters, I would go for hispanics, asian immigrants, and disaffected white liberals now watching as the solid blue Dem cities and states teeter towards bankruptcy..
Alex said...
Schultz is right that Rush Limpballs tries to talk down the economy and it's working. Congrats traitorous reich-wing scum.
nope cubanbob, not a double moby at all.
Insulting declarations like "Rap Isn't Music" when it was the greatest cultural contribution to American and world culture in 50 years. That even turned your kids against you.
I could go on for years,...
Crack: And you'd be wrong half the time and never notice it, as you are too busy preening about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is.
Fifty years ago, if arithmetic serves, was 1962 -- the year the Beatles had their first hit and Bob Dylan made his first album. This ushered in a huge transformation of popular music worldwide that is still with us and easily dwarfs rap's modest cultural contribution.
I would never say "Rap isn't music." I don't like it, but then part of rap's mission is that people like me shouldn't like it. However, that doesn't mean that I can't make an objective comparison of cultural influence.
In terms of about any metric I can think of -- sales, number of fans, number of bands, radio play, cultural allusions, movie soundtracks, whatever -- the classic rock created by the Beatles and Dylan make rap look tiny.
Perhaps more native players in Ghana or places like it are influenced by rap than classic rock but that's about the only edge I would give rap.
Otherwise, I'd say rap is a movement much like late seventies punk. It had its proponents, it had its influence, it shouted to high heaven about how important it was, but it did not make it into the mainstream. Unlike punk, rap is still a going concern, I'll give it that, but not much more.
Very true. I think the reason this topic so often comes across as racially coded has to do with all the idiotic "Welfare Queen" rhetoric that infected the 80s. Not sure if I can remember where that particular infection started...
Who injected RACE into it?
Hint: not Reagan. Nor Republicans.
2. the the lazy welfare cheat/foodstamp lazy "black" has been a staple of GOP dogbites for years and you know it.
GOP never once made a claim involving race. Democrats have from day one --- and blamed Republicans.
I don't like it, but then part of rap's mission is that people like me shouldn't like it.
This is BS.
If I was running a TV camera and someone started throwing peanuts and racist slurs at me, I'd point the camera at them and let the viewing audience see who the jackasses were.
In terms of about any metric I can think of -- sales, number of fans, number of bands, radio play, cultural allusions, movie soundtracks, whatever -- the classic rock created by the Beatles and Dylan make rap look tiny.
LIve in a bubble much?
I cultural impact of Rhythm & Blues dwarfs 'classic rock'
Without Buddy Holly who was influenced by Elvis, who was influenced by black R&B musicians, there would have likely been no blessed Beatles.
creeley23,
Crack: And you'd be wrong half the time and never notice it, as you are too busy preening about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is.
I keep saying "prove me wrong" and "provide evidence" but - remarkably - none of you seem to want to take up the challenge, preferring what you do here:
Listening to the sound of YOUR OWN VOICE and claiming it, alone, conveys authority.
It doesn't - back up what you say, creeley - I do.
Fifty years ago, if arithmetic serves, was 1962 -- the year the Beatles had their first hit and Bob Dylan made his first album. This ushered in a huge transformation of popular music worldwide that is still with us and easily dwarfs rap's modest cultural contribution.
Bullshit. Just because something is "still with us" doesn't mean shit - you (and the other 80% of American whites who disdained Rap) may still listen to dinosaurs but - just like an animal caught in the tar pits - that doesn't mean the world of music hasn't continued past their contribution. Public Enemy's output - alone - turned Sgt. Pepper's into an anachronism. From the All Music Guide:
Musically, Public Enemy was,...revolutionary, as their production team, the Bomb Squad, created dense soundscapes that relied on avant-garde cut-and-paste techniques, unrecognizable samples, piercing sirens, relentless beats, and deep funk. It was chaotic and invigorating music,...
"Revolutionary": rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y [rev-uh-loo-shuh-ner-ee] adjective, noun
1. of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change.
2. radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.
I'll lay off Dylan out of respect for Ann's devotion.
I would never say "Rap isn't music." I don't like it, but then part of rap's mission is that people like me shouldn't like it. However, that doesn't mean that I can't make an objective comparison of cultural influence.
Bullshit again. Who said "part of rap's mission" is that people like you shouldn't like it? What is there about De La Soul's "Magic Number" - with it's call for unity and pleasure and "Schoolhouse Rock!" chorus - that says "creeley shouldn't like this"? Where were you when The Fresh Prince said, ''You don't have to be from a certain background or age or color or place to understand my music.''?
Oh yeah - hating on it.
It's all in your head, creely - which is why you don't like it - you've deigned NOT TO LIKE IT on your own.
Cont'd.
In terms of about any metric I can think of -- sales, number of fans, number of bands, radio play, cultural allusions, movie soundtracks, whatever -- the classic rock created by the Beatles and Dylan make rap look tiny.
You're comparing one genre (Rock) that's been around for almost 70 years against one that's been around for less than half that. And based on that fact, Rock wins in one category - back catalogue sales.
Big deal. I still go to the museum, too. And I'll ask you to look at the list of the best selling artists of all time - Eminem is the first Rap artist to appear but notice:
His career doesn't even begin until 1998 - against artists who have been around since the 50's. Except for Britney Spears, no one else above him comes close to being as recent.
That's an unheard of level of sales.
Perhaps more native players in Ghana or places like it are influenced by rap than classic rock but that's about the only edge I would give rap.
Now you're completely loony. You simply don't know what you're talking about. It's nothing but an admission of how out-of-touch you are. Like Paul Ryan, admitting his iPod ran from AC/DC to Led Zepplin, nailed him as musically clueless and more than three decades behind.
Otherwise, I'd say rap is a movement much like late seventies punk. It had its proponents, it had its influence, it shouted to high heaven about how important it was, but it did not make it into the mainstream. Unlike punk, rap is still a going concern, I'll give it that, but not much more.
Rap Music, Brash And Swaggering, Enters Mainstream - The New York Times, 1988
Oh, and one more thing:
Rap had female artists almost from the day it began, with none of the BS bands like Heart had to go through to be accepted by it's peers.
creely, you're simply wrong.
@Crack/
If followed this little colloquy all afternoon on & off--too bad I don't have the time to make all the points I wish to, but I'll start w. two: (1) Having found out you live in Utah, I now understand your oppositional zeal against Mormonism. Theocracies can be stifling. I once met a female BYU non-Mormon law-school grad in N.O. who asked me for a reference to a Sr partner of the most prestigious law firm in the city (and who happened to have been a college roommate of mine) saying that "I just HAVE to get a job somewhere outside of Utah--I can't BEAR to go back and live there among all the Mormons one more second." LOL Religion and the culture that it engenders does have a noticeable effect, e.g., the Parishes (counties) in La just north of Lake Pontchartrain and west of Baton Rouge known collectively as the "Florida Parishes." The northern half of each Parish is predominantly Protestant, while the southern half of each mainly Catholic in nature. As one historian has put it: "The southern parts are more socially "relaxed" than are their northern parts." LoL, Crack, Mardi Gras could have NEVER been invented/taken root in Utah.
(2) About Hip-Hop: What do you call the vocalists/MCs? As Stanly Crouch has pointed out, they are neither proper "singers" so-called NOR can they be classified as "musicians"--so what DOES one call them? Which begs the question: "Can Hip-Hop really properly be called "music?" Your opinion please..
***Sorry..."EAST of Baton Rouge.."
Crack: No one can prove you wrong because in the kangaroo court of your mind, you are the judge, jury, prosecutor and sometimes even the DA.
In other words, you are a classic crank. But you've got a good line of patter and occasional good sense, which redeems you somewhat.
Crack: "Still with us" is informal speak for "classic" as, say, Shakespeare. Can we say the same for the Sugarhill Gang? How many young blacks even know Sugarhill? How many continue to listen to them? (I don't claim to know. Perahps you could inform me.) I'm not expecting them to know The Last Poets, who I first heard in a hippie commune.
You can rule as Crack-Judge and Crack-Jury that the Beatles and Dylan don't mean shit. Sorry. Back in the real word they do. They still sell plenty. Bob Dylan got the Medal of Freedom award a few years ago. People continue to be influenced by what the worlds they opened up. Young people continue to listen. Many parents from my cohort tell me of the day when their kids made their pilgrimage to the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones, or even to Metallica, as the case may be.
Sure, I'll grant that rap was revolutionary, as far as that word means anything with respect to music. But how much of the world outside of music and black culture were affected by rap? Not bloody much. In the sixties we had a series of Leonard Bernstein TV shows explaining how brilliant the Beatles were.
How many ordinary people know the big rap artists, past and present? Very few unless they are young, black or, like you, in the business of knowing.
But everyone know the Beatles and Bob Dylan.
virgil xenophon,
About Hip-Hop: What do you call the vocalists/MCs?
MC - Master of Ceremonies.
As Stanly Crouch has pointed out, they are neither proper "singers" so-called NOR can they be classified as "musicians"--so what DOES one call them?
Stanly Crouch has an outdated view of music and music-making. He's coming from the earlier Jazz era and voicing his biases. Like Louis Armstrong once did, labeling Crouch's beloved Be-Bop as "Chinese music," Crouch thinks a "musician" has to be someone who sits down to a drum kit, like he does.
But this is the future. Artists started programming drum machines - the 202s, the 505s, the 606s, the 808s - which is the difference between a prop plane and a jet that can break the sound barrier. (Listen to the first three minutes of this mix and - forget playing a drum kit - tell me if you think a human being can just play the hi-hats. No - these patterns can be imagined and written, but ONLY played by machine.) Sure, a prop plane is capable of flight, but come ON.
It's sad that, when music changes, those ascending still respect who inspired them, while those who egged them on with their creations vent frustration that things won't stay the same - when they themselves broke barriers, specifically, to make room for new things.
Which begs the question: "Can Hip-Hop really properly be called "music?" Your opinion please..
Not Hip-Hop - it's the culture that spawned the music, like Rastafarians gave us Reggae - but Rap? Most certainly:
You just gotta have a beat,...
creeley23,
Crack: No one can prove you wrong because in the kangaroo court of your mind, you are the judge, jury, prosecutor and sometimes even the DA.
Right - I didn't link to information, I just made it all up. Unlike you, who just spouts shit with not a scrap of supporting evidence.
In other words, you are a classic crank. But you've got a good line of patter and occasional good sense, which redeems you somewhat.
Thanks, I guess. No, I'll take it. Thank you.
How come the offensive episode toward CNN person was not on film? Did CNN become that ineffective, that they can't even film an [aleged] incident that can make head news, ven if their own employees is involved in it?
creeley23,
"Still with us" is informal speak for "classic" as, say, Shakespeare. Can we say the same for the Sugarhill Gang? How many young blacks even know Sugarhill? How many continue to listen to them? (I don't claim to know. Perahps you could inform me.) I'm not expecting them to know The Last Poets, who I first heard in a hippie commune.
Sugarhill is still known. The Last Poets? In L.A., where I grew up, definitely. You have to remember music's split into subcultures now, many that *deliberately* could care less about anything but their shit.
You can rule as Crack-Judge and Crack-Jury that the Beatles and Dylan don't mean shit. Sorry. Back in the real word they do. They still sell plenty. Bob Dylan got the Medal of Freedom award a few years ago. People continue to be influenced by what the worlds they opened up. Young people continue to listen. Many parents from my cohort tell me of the day when their kids made their pilgrimage to the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones, or even to Metallica, as the case may be.
Metallica personally invented me to party at Kirk's house once and I laughed at them. Music doesn't care who Obama gave a necklace to, and he's just as likely to give one to Jay-Z tomorrow. Hell, he sent Heavy-D's family a personal letter of condolence when he died, but only sent the Navy SEALS' families a form letter. Awards and shit mean nothing.
In the sixties we had a series of Leonard Bernstein TV shows explaining how brilliant the Beatles were.
So what? Did Leonard Bernstein do a TV show explaining how brilliant Ike Turner's "Rocket 88" was in 1951 - "just" the first Rock 'N' Roll song? Or Little Richard - who's "Good Golly Miss Molly" started, note-for-note, EXACTLY like Turner's - seven whole years later?
No, of course not, because you and Leonard Bernstein aren't talking about music but fads and awards in a Mutual Aid Society circle jerk. All you know of Ike Turner, and music, is what the media tells you - he was bad to the lying bitch, Tina. (I grew up with them and, while it made for a good movie, it's a bunch of bullshit. The man was a giant.)
There's so much about music you don't understand I'm inspired to write a book.
How many ordinary people know the big rap artists, past and present? Very few unless they are young, black or, like you, in the business of knowing.
That's not the point - once music went underground, nobody gave a damn about whether Paul Ryan and his AC/DC to Led Zeppelin tastes know they exist - that shit's dead to us. Entire new worlds of music, selling millions, have sprung up and you have NO CLUE who our heroes are or why they're doing what they do and that's the way they like it.
But look - "here's a documentary on some of them now, featuring a stuffy white Leonard Bernstein-type guy "explaining how brilliant" it is so YOU know it's important.
I and THEIR fans already know it - and how long they've been making records and who's influencing who and everything - because we keep up, and that's the difference. I once went to Detroit, just to buy their records, because they were so underground it was impossible to dig them up through the usual channels.
I swear, for all your bitching, some of you should be paying me - to put up with your bullshit AND educate you,...
creeley,
If you have any interest in what you've been missing while licking Dylan's ankles, go HERE and then HERE before you watch the Techno documentary I linked to in the last post. The Techno doc might not make a lot of sense EVEN AFTER you watch these (it assumes you know certain songs, etc., that you most certainly won't) but they will connect certain bands - Kraftwerk especially, but including the glorious Beatles - in a way that'll make the Techno doc somewhat more understandable to you.
It's just a whole new thing now,...
creeley,
You can also access a lot of the music on my blog by going HERE. I don't know if you'll learn anything by it, but it might broaden your horizons some:
Don't be Paul Ryan,...
crack,
Since that information didn't become widespread until fairly recently, how were we supposed to know that?
Of course, this is a giant lie. I learned about the slave triangle in elementary school, where Europeans traded with black Africans for black slaves. This widely available truth just didn't suit your needs to put the grievances of blacks at the feet of white people and to teach the ahistorical non-sense that today's black culture is a "slave" culture.
Like I said, I understand why blacks are angry, but it's got to be dealt with as an American issue on American terms.
Sure. "White flight", right? After all, how can blacks be expected to build a community without whites around to show them how and pay for it, right? And you call me the racist, when you are the one claiming that "white flight" is an excuse for black failure.
Calling me an ahistorical asshole doesn't change the fact that blacks have done the hole in which they (you) live, but I'm sure it makes you feel better to think that I'm a racist, despite the fact that you're the one implying blacks need whites.
Ken,
This is a giant lie. I learned about the slave triangle in elementary school, where Europeans traded with black Africans for black slaves. This widely available truth just didn't suit your needs to put the grievances of blacks at the feet of white people and to teach the ahistorical non-sense that today's black culture is a "slave" culture.
Wait - let me get this straight:
Because YOU knew it, that means EVERYONE did? Talk about giant lies - you're telling yourself one right now.
Sure. "White flight", right? After all, how can blacks be expected to build a community without whites around to show them how and pay for it, right? And you call me the racist, when you are the one claiming that "white flight" is an excuse for black failure.
Who called you a racist? If you heard that, then I'm sorry, I was addressing your imaginary friends.
Calling me an ahistorical asshole doesn't change the fact that blacks have done the hole in which they (you) live, but I'm sure it makes you feel better to think that I'm a racist, despite the fact that you're the one implying blacks need whites.
Obviously, somebody woke up on the insecure side of the bed this morning,…
Hey Ken, look what I found:
A new column by Thomas Sowell on Barack Obama!
Why do I mention it? Because he has some interesting things to say about Obama and the African slave trade. I'll put them in bold so you'll catch my meaning:
His statement in Dreams from My Father about how white men went to Africa to “drag away the conquered in chains” betrays his ignorance of African history.
The era of the Atlantic slave trade and the era of European conquests across the continent of Africa were different eras. During the era of the Atlantic slave trade, most of Africa was ruled by Africans, who sold some of their slaves to white men.
European conquests in Africa had to wait until Europeans found some way to survive lethal African diseases, to which they lacked resistance. Only after medical science learned to deal with these diseases could the era of European conquests spread across sub-Saharan Africa. But the Atlantic slave trade was over by then.
There was no reason why Barack Obama had to know this. But there was also no reason for him to be shooting off his mouth without knowing what he was talking about.
That's some "widely available truth" you got there, Boy-o, so prevalent "there was no reason why Barack Obama had to know" it.
What are you going to say now? That Sowell's out to get you?
I agree with Sowell's take on Obama, but I think there is also no reason for YOU to be shooting off YOUR mouth without knowing what you're talking about as well.
When I say we didn't know something, that's exactly what I meant, you silly, silly man,....
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