Althouse: "You cannot measure a man’s character based on the words he utters before adoring crowds during times that are happy."

August 31, 2012

"You cannot measure a man’s character based on the words he utters before adoring crowds during times that are happy."

"The true measure of a man is revealed in his actions during times of trouble — the quiet hospital room of a dying boy, with no cameras and no reporters."

219 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 219 of 219

The Crack Emcee said...: bagoh20,

You think I can't find some rap lyrics that make Black rappers look like criminals. What's your point?

Wait - did you even look at the links? Those aren't people trying to hurt the cult. The first one is by a Mormon. My point is, unless you have evidence it's not so, quit being a fucking douche and acting like I don't know what I'm talking about.; 9/1/12, 12:56 AM
shiloh said...: Tampa Strip Club Offers Window Into Challenges Facing Both Parties

"But Angel, who is Catholic, was frank about the fact that Romney's Mormon faith would also be a prohibitive factor for him. "I'd never vote for a Mormon," he said.

The question of how the GOP's largely Christian voters will view Romney's Mormonism at the polls has been the subject of much speculation. According to Gallup, 18 percent of Americans say they will not vote for a Mormon for president. But as with other biases, like race, there may be plenty more who think it, but won't say it.

Romney, a former bishop in the Mormon church, has largely avoided talking about his faith during his presidential campaign. In his convention speech on Thursday, he emphasized his record of service to members of his congregation, but stopped short of addressing how his religious beliefs might influence his policy decisions."

>

I yield back the balance of my time to the continuing mittens/Mormon cult er religion discussion.; 9/1/12, 1:03 AM
bagoh20 said...: "Wait - did you even look at the links?"

Wait, I thought we were talking about people: Mitt Romney, or Mormons we know, real human beings, not stereotypes.

My point is that if CrackEmcee was running for President, some nut would be on here linking to rap lyrics about raping whitey's girlfriend, killing cops, and then he would throw in some quotes from an atheist eugenics wacko and tell us all how you're all alike in the worst possible ways. I don't follow that shit.; 9/1/12, 1:06 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: bagoh20,

My point is that if CrackEmcee was running for President, some nut would be on here linking to rap lyrics about raping whitey's girlfriend, killing cops, and then he would throw in some quotes from an atheist eugenics wacko and tell us all how you're all alike in the worst possible ways. I don't follow that shit.

But that's not what I'm doing and you know it. By giving you links to someone in the cult and out of it, I'm showing you they're both saying the phenomena is true. And if you're saying Mitt Romney doesn't lie, then I can prove that's not true as well.

Really, bagoh, what's wrong with you? You're acting no better than people with no brains. Comparing rap lyrics to essays on the subject? Rejecting evidence to rail instead? (You've still produced none of your own). Acting like you have a reason to protect Romney - he's a grown man, let him stand or fall on his own.

What's you problem?; 9/1/12, 1:13 AM
bagoh20 said...: " Romney - he's a grown man, let him stand or fall on his own."

That's my whole point. Lets do that. This post was about a person who saw Romney do something positive first hand. It's no rebuttal to say other people in the same religion have negatives, or to assume negative motives on his part.

If someone can credibly say they saw him personally do something as qualitatively bad as this was good then fine - that's relevant.

I know you disagree with this, but when I vote for Romney, I don't believe I'm voting for Mormonism, although I still would find that preferable to what Obama is connected with.

You assume that being a Mormon makes Romney worse, I don't, because I have never seen any first hand proof of that dynamic, and I should have by now if it was typical.

I know people, real live people. I've seen them through severe suffering, challenges and windfall good fortunes. They showed better than average. Should I not trust my lying eyes, but rather rely on opinions written by strangers on the internet?

Maybe your experience is just different. I know where you stand. We both know another point of view now. I'll be looking for evidence of yours too, but people's actions are what speak to me, not opinions, or even what some claim about themselves.; 9/1/12, 1:47 AM
Jim in St Louis said...: Crack and bagoh20 are two of the most intelligent bozos here.; 9/1/12, 1:52 AM
yashu said...: Crack, it's not my place to diagnose you, and I won't presume to.

I will say that I sometimes think I might see in you certain traits (e.g. black and white thinking or 'splitting', ways of arguing, occasional paranoid/ conspiracy thinking, etc.) similar to someone very close to me (who is in therapy, and is actually doing very well right now). Of course I don't at all know whether you have the same or similar psychological issues.

Every one of us is prey to projection etc. at times; we all have our issues; we're all messed up in one way or another. Myself very much included. (Though I know you think we're all insane and deluded, except yourself. OK, so maybe we're all insane and you're the only lucid one, so forgive this comment as the rambling of someone insane and deluded.)

But for whatever it's worth, as incredibly frustrating, often insufferable as I find that person, as hurtful as they often are-- and I avoid getting into arguments with that person, just as I avoid getting into arguments with you, for similar reasons-- I also (to echo wyo sis) find it really sad, heartbreaking really, because I know it's really fucking painful to be that person, to live like that.

And I swear (not sarcastic here at all), I don't mean to be condescending here, though I expect you'll take it that way. Anyway, that's all I'll say about that. Good night.; 9/1/12, 1:54 AM
Jim in St Louis said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/1/12, 2:36 AM
Jim in St Louis said...: shiloh linked:
"...how the GOP's largely Christian voters will view Romney's Mormonism at the polls has been the subject of much speculation."

But wouldn't that have all been worked out in the primary process? Isn't that why the parties start out with a half dozen candidates and then play king of the hill to work themselves down to that person most acceptable to most of the party?

Prediction: The LDS church is going to have its doctrine examined and exposed, and attacks will come---BUT the attacks will come from the left.

Oh they will drag up some right wing evangelical to be figurehead, who will explain how evil and false Romeny's faith is.
But it will be someone you have never heard of before. Maybe Matt Lauer can dig up that Koran burning preacher again- what was that mutton chops guy's name?; 9/1/12, 2:38 AM
MayBee said...: At the DNC, Obama can pull some people onstage from Altgeld Gardens. They can talk about how Obama very nearly got their asbestos removed.; 9/1/12, 3:49 AM
geokstr said...: "They show up at hospital rooms bearing gifts...They want to get to Heaven and you're their stepping stone, you guys - that ain't love."

I'm a lifelong atheist, but I also think that if everybody believed deeply in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and that the way to get to his all-you-can-eat buffet in the sky is by doing good things for others, this world would be a lot better place that it is now. An act repeated, no matter how insincere, gets to be a habit over time. Might as well be a good one, non?

Instead, we have a world where 1/4 of the population believes you can go to a place with multitudes of nubile virgins if you blow yourself up and take a bunch of Jewish kids with you. And where many of the atheists and secularists, who don't believe in the hereafter at all, thinks it's all about who you can kill or screw to gain access to power, so you can have all the nubiles and other worldly goodies in the here and now.

Watching what the left has wrought on this planet almost makes me want to get baptized.; 9/1/12, 8:23 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/1/12, 8:51 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: bagoh20,

That's my whole point. Lets do that.

No you don't - your whole point has been protecting the man from Day One.

This post was about a person who saw Romney do something positive first hand. It's no rebuttal to say other people in the same religion have negatives, or to assume negative motives on his part.

Again - you're not even LOOKING at the religion, so how can you say that?   

If someone can credibly say they saw him personally do something as qualitatively bad as this was good then fine - that's relevant.

Oh, so you've been looking at them? Looking for them? Give me a break.   

I know you disagree with this, but when I vote for Romney, I don't believe I'm voting for Mormonism, although I still would find that preferable to what Obama is connected with.

You're right: I don't give a fuck what you believe.   

You assume that being a Mormon makes Romney worse, I don't, because I have never seen any first hand proof of that dynamic, and I should have by now if it was typical.

No, I don't assume anything. That's the way of deducing things the rest of you seem enamored with. Assumptions, beliefs, it's like you've never taken a science class in your lives,…  

I know people, real live people. I've seen them through severe suffering, challenges and windfall good fortunes. They showed better than average. Should I not trust my lying eyes, but rather rely on opinions written by strangers on the internet?

No - but there's something called LOOKING AT ALL THE EVIDENCE and not deciding that putting your fingers in your ears, or some other stupid shit, is valid. I mean, it was you - just a few days ago - who started this demand for me to be a fortuneteller, wasn't it? "Tell us what's going to happen in the next four years"?

Sheer fucking madness.  

Maybe your experience is just different. I know where you stand. We both know another point of view now. I'll be looking for evidence of yours too, but people's actions are what speak to me, not opinions, or even what some claim about themselves.

Yeah - "Tell us what's going to happen in the next four years" is the kind of question someone being reality-based would demand.

I really thought you were smarter than this.; 9/1/12, 8:54 AM
bagoh20 said...: "I really thought you were smarter than this."

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking as I read this "rebuttal".

Fucking weak.; 9/1/12, 9:11 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: I'm starting to understand why people kill each other. There's clearly no other way. When you can appeal to evidence and reason and you're faced with beliefs, assumptions, and demands to predict the future - all presented as though they're perfectly sane?

Yeah.

This life - clear thought - is being turned to shit by you guys. No good can come of it.

Just like with Lance Armstrong, you go cheer your fake hero by ignoring everything you don't like - merely because you don't like it - and I'll wait for the inevitable unveiling of the truth, which you'll also deny because you're all too much of a bunch of pussies, now, to be men when it matters.

Fuck off, bagoh, you may be a lot of things but smart and fair ain't part of your make-up,...; 9/1/12, 9:31 AM
Jim in St Louis said...: Crack- since you are running hot on this can I pose a question?
If we grant everything you have said as true and that Mormonism is exactly the kind of newage cult b.s. that you have been warning about.

Is there a way to judge how deep a person is into the cult? How much is lip service and how much they really have swallowed, and how much is part of who they are?

I think the passion factor for: religion/cult/politics/golf/Star Trek/chocolate/poker/occupying/chasing tail all depends on the person in question.; 9/1/12, 9:42 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Jim in St Louis,

Is there a way to judge how deep a person is into the cult? How much is lip service and how much they really have swallowed, and how much is part of who they are?

Sure. One way is through lying.

For instance, here's a clip of Mitt discussing Mormonism when he knew the camera's were on - and he tells such a huge whopper every Mormon in Utah (but the "church" authorities) was shocked by how easily he could do so.

Now, here's one where, when he thinks the camera's were turned off, he starts babbling LDS crazy talk like Tom Cruise did with Scientology.

Conclusion:

He's clearly swallowed the whole thing, but he's willing to blatantly lie about it for political expediency's sake.

But most importantly - if you take nothing else from this - don't forget that you heard Mitt Romney tell a bald-faced lie with your own eyes and ears. A lie so obvious it made the Utah news and startled the believers with both how big and how brazen it was. Don't you forget that he will lie - that the carefully constructed image he's creating now, of being almost saint-like, is itself a lie. And that his "church" did and does nothing to address that, as long as nobody brings it up in his quest for power over us.; 9/1/12, 1:25 PM
Dante said...: I didn't get the whole quotation there, Crack. It sounded like he said God hasn't talked to anyone since moses, "and perhaps some others." He was being set up in a pretty screwed up way, IMO.

I think you have made a point that Romney consulted with the Mormon church prior to making political decisions. Can you back that up?; 9/2/12, 1:15 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Dante,

I didn't get the whole quotation there, Crack. It sounded like he said God hasn't talked to anyone since moses, "and perhaps some others." He was being set up in a pretty screwed up way, IMO.

Asking a guy a direct question is to be "set up in a pretty screwed up way"? What was the set-up? What underhanded trick was used? Where do you guys get this stuff?

I think you have made a point that Romney consulted with the Mormon church prior to making political decisions. Can you back that up?

Yes, I can - and have - but after that "He was being set up" comment, what's the point? If a woman asking a presidential a direct question will be reframed as a set-up, there's no point in talking:

The Republican elite said Romney was "inevitable," and now you're all behaving like Stepford Wives for him. That's a level of mind and behavioral control I never expected to see in this country. It's fucking creepy.

I'm outta here,..; 9/2/12, 8:41 AM