From a NYT op-ed by writer Alice Randall.
If perceptions of feminine beauty vary by race, what does this mean for policymakers who want to shape our health habits? Won't it be race discrimination to incentivize weight loss?
When the biologist Daniel Lieberman suggested in a public lecture at Harvard this past February that exercise for everyone should be mandated by law, the audience applauded, the Harvard Gazette reported. A room full of thin affluent people applauding the idea of forcing fatties, many of whom are dark, poor and exhausted, to exercise appalls me....Appalls her... and yet, Randall says:
WE have to change. Black women especially....MEANWHILE: A new Rasmussen poll shows 63% of Americans oppose "sin taxes" on soda and junk food. Should we perceive these taxes as racially discriminatory?
My goal is to be the last fat black woman in my family....
I call on every black woman for whom it is appropriate to commit to getting under 200 pounds or to losing the 10 percent of our body weight that often results in a 50 percent reduction in diabetes risk....
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81 comments:
Ain't no way they'll lose unless they get off that soul train soul food.
Like you wouldn't be one of those applauding..give us a break!!
This should be good....
I think the difference is that Alice Randall wants "every black woman for whom it is appropriate" to commit themselves, as opposed to the government coming in and forcing people to do something. I can see why the first is something she can get behind, while the second is something that appalls her.
Dropping weight is great - great for your knees, great for your feet, great for your back, great for your blood work, and probably great for your wallet if you do it by eschewing processed food.
But 200lbs is still a LOT for a woman to weigh.
Given the difference in muscle density and upper body strength, I'd suspect a 200lb woman would have to be around six foot six inches to have the physical infrastructure to carry that much weight comfortably.
I suspect that 150 is a more responsible target. Possibly a lot less.
-XC
"Like you wouldn't be one of those applauding..give us a break!!"
Cite one quote of mine anywhere in the 8+ years of this blog that supports that assertion.
I'll save you the trouble: You can't.
It would be appalling if there is a law that mandates exercise or fitness.
Harvard is not coming out good for America these days.
"..A new Rasmussen poll shows 63% of Americans oppose "sin taxes" on soda and junk food. Should we perceive these taxes as racially discriminatory? "
No, but if it were to include Colt 45 Malt, it would be.
"I suspect that 150 is a more responsible target. Possibly a lot less."
150 is normal weight for a woman who is 5'5". It's not even "overweight" let alone obese. You would probably prefer a slimmer-looking woman... if you are white. But this is supposed to be about health.
By the way, the average black American woman is taller than the average white American woman.
As far as bone structure is concerned... if we're just guessing... I'm going to guess that if your genetic inheritance is a propensity to put on more weight, it will also include the bone structure to go with it.
And fat is distributed differently on different people, which must have something to do with how it feels to carry around a greater weight load.
Expat is right about the problems of that kind of weight. The Blonde worked rehab for 5 years and saw a lot of it.
OTOH, most guys like a woman that's somewhat larger than life (in certain areas, at least), with a little more to love, and enough padding that you don't collide with any hard surfaces, so it's tough hitting that happy medium.
But, Ms Randall notwithstanding, it's a pretty well-established phenomenon that, if a woman drops a lot of weight, hubbo or boyfriend loses interest.
Expat(ish) said...
But 200lbs is still a LOT for a woman to weigh.
Given the difference in muscle density and upper body strength, I'd suspect a 200lb woman would have to be around six foot six inches to have the physical infrastructure to carry that much weight comfortably.
Depends on the woman's frame, endowments, proportions, etc.
There are what are known as "curvy" models that put a lot of the skinny, implanted "hot" girls to shame.
Not too thin though. A man needs something to bounce on.
So what can we do about the ones who are just "big boned"?
Objection your honor, counsel is asking and answering. If counsel is going to testify @ least let's swear her in as a witness.
Objection sustained.
A courtroom and most of civil society has rules; a classroom and blog is arbitrary. That is a fundamental flaw w/ your approach here.
"But, Ms Randall notwithstanding, it's a pretty well-established phenomenon that, if a woman drops a lot of weight, hubbo or boyfriend loses interest."
-- I've heard this. My question though is, I doubt that weight is the only thing that is changing. Maybe the other changes the woman has to do to lose significant amounts of weight are causing the loss of interest? I dunno, I'm just shooting in the dark.
Coerced exercise?
See page 17 of the short illustrated version of "Road to Serfdom".
Hayek, Orwell, and Huxley forecast well what socialists would do at every turn.
The irony of the thin obsession among women is that the vast majority hetero men find it disgusting. We like women w/ curves. And the irony is deepened by the fact that part of the culture that is promoting this skinny ideal are gay men who dominate the fashion idustry. It would be funny if not so fatally sad.
We need to stop tolerating totalitarian impulses in our society.
Matthew Sablan said...
But, Ms Randall notwithstanding, it's a pretty well-established phenomenon that, if a woman drops a lot of weight, hubbo or boyfriend loses interest.
-- I've heard this. My question though is, I doubt that weight is the only thing that is changing. Maybe the other changes the woman has to do to lose significant amounts of weight are causing the loss of interest? I dunno, I'm just shooting in the dark.
The theory I always heard was that the man got very insecure that the newly sexy woman would drop him and, to spare himself the anguish, dropped her first.
YMMV, of course.
IF your weight is causing YOU problems -- diabetes, joint aches -- then maybe you should change your life to address it. It should be up to you.
Yes, blame it on the gays, spinelli.
Sin taxes may or may not be racially discriminatory but they are definitely an effort to control the behavior of poor people.
"THAT'S cool. You go, girl."
When a white woman talks like that to a black woman, is it racist?
Reminds me of that Barbara Billingsley scene in the movie "Airplane."
It's so funny to me how liberals try so hard to get it right, and then screw up embarrassingly.
The op-ed sounds like a lot of postmodernish rationalizing but good for her and for her low carb choices. The affluent -- like this woman -- think about health a lot more than the poor, whether you made poor decisions that rendered you poor or if you were born poor. If government dependence determines your family structure, you will not eat healthily. I point again to Hoop Dreams, made before the massive government food intervention, where not a single person in the inner city was obese. Parents had to buy and prepare the family's food.
Dalrymple wrote in one article that I still think about that many of his patients, prison inmates, never had a single meal cooked by a parent and eaten as a family. This lack of structure leads to sickness of many kinds.
"A room full of thin affluent people applauding the idea of forcing fatties, many of whom are dark, poor and exhausted, to exercise appalls me."
So does Randall think the government should be allowed to force people to do whatever the good liberals think should be done as long as it doesn't effect blacks? Or is she the using the race angle in a David Brooksian sense? That is, couching her policy disagreement in as small and unthreatening a manner as possible because any more direct conflict with liberal orthodoxy will cause her readership to simply ignore her.
Matthew wisely said:
"Maybe the other changes the woman has to do to lose significant amounts of weight are causing the loss of interest?"
I hold Zumba classes in my dining room, have a treadmill in my kitchen and have organized yoga classes for women up to 300 pounds. And I’ve got a weighted exercise Hula-Hoop I call the black Cadillac. Our go-to family dinner is sliced cucumbers, salsa, spinach and scrambled egg whites with onions. Our go-to snack is peanut butter — no added sugar or salt — on a spoon. My quick breakfast is a roasted sweet potato, no butter, or Greek yogurt with six almonds.
Egg whites for the whole famdamnly? Everyone has to go onto HER routine. Yep that sounds enticing and sexy.
There is nothing more tiresome than a reformed drunk, former cigarette smoker, someone newly converted to religion and now an extreme dieter.....all obsessed and determined to force everyone to their NEWLY discovered lifestyle.
If YOU want to lose weight and eat 6 almonds for dinner....go for it. Your husband will probably be supportive....up to a point.
Palladian said...
Yes, blame it on the gays, spinelli.
Good point - Palladian, that is.
I think the whole androgyny thing has less to do with fashion than the idea of role reversal and the disruption to the family it causes.
It's a Lefty thing.
We'd better understand.
"THAT'S cool. You go, girl."
Because she's black, I'm sure Alice Randall appreciates the hip pep talk, especially from you.
edutcher will agree w/ Palladian to get brownie points w/ the teacher. So, your irrelevent, dude.
Palladian, This was not an anti gay statement. And I ask you what do you disagree w/?
Women are literally killing themselves to meet an unhealthy thin model.
Hetero men much prefer women w/ curves and find skinny unsexy and ugly.
Gay men dominate the womens fashion industry that creates this fatal and destructive view?
And, I believe large gay men if honest will admit the gay male culture is obsessed w/ skinny[hello crystal meth] and make being a "bear" tough to be cool within that culture.
Before you shoot from the hip @ least have an honest debate which I know you are very capable of doing. And, you need to have some trepidations since a right wing sycophant like edutcher agreed w/ you.
I loathe political correctness and I thought you did also, Palladian.
...and have organized yoga classes for women up to 300 pounds.
I don't see fat people doing yoga. Even the basic poses are unattainable. They come to class all the time - but they only come once.
From stuff I've seen over the years, part of the issue stems from the way drugs have decimated the black community. An extremely skinny black woman suggests a drug abuser. Would this reinforce the okay-ness of a few extra pounds in some communities? Generalizations of course, but worth considering as a factor, don't you think?
This touches on something nobody wants to talk about because it's so politically incorrect; the "obesity epidemic" is chiefly due to black women. The plain statistics bear this out.
"Dare to be fat, fat is where it's at!!!!!
The late great Root Boy Slim.
Ann Althouse said...
150 is normal weight for a woman who is 5'5".
Absurd.
More like 120, tops.
RE: making exercise mandatory.
If you read the article Randall references where that statement was supposed to have been made, you will see she has twisted things. The Harvard speaker had just pointed out that Harvard used to require 4 hours of PE classes in the past. The speaker was suggesting this be brought back...and the audience applauded.
While I certainly believe that dictatorial impulse exists...that was not the message this time. It was dishonest of her to claim the powers that be want to force everybody to exercise by force of law when all is being suggested is that Harvard, and other college students, bring back a PE requirement. D
Well Joe, although not dispositive, go to County Fairs in Wisconsin which are lily white and you see many obese male and females. Thsi is not a racial or sex issue.
I shot some surveillance @ the Jefferson County, Wi. Fair once. Myself and the attorney who hired me almost pissed our pants watching the footage I shot because there were SO MANY fat Cheeseheads. I kept changing vantage points but they just kept blocking my view.
On the same topic, there are billboards in Madison by Second Harvest claiming that 1 in 6 Americans go hungry. Then there are the obesity statitics; who are we to believe? Maybe the 1 in 6 hungry include the women w/ eating disorders. Although young men are starting to show up w/ eating disorders also. We are a nation of extremes.
@sorun - Certainly overweight people do yoga. Come to the Y someday - it's pretty inspiring. Or go to a pregnant yoga class. That is a sight.
-XC
I've been working on a podcast this weekend, and made mention of the insanity of health mandates. It's a rambling affair, which got me to reconsider releasing it, but, since you posted this, I may have to reconsider my reconsideration.
To answer this writer's, and your, question:
Yes, I have known black men (and, for instance, Tongans) who want nothing to do with skinny women and would think their wives had gone insane if they lost weight.
Also, spouses lose weight when they're cheating, so those who are committed to the marriage have every reason to wonder when their loved one shows a deliberate, dramatic, and unexplained loss or desire to lose.
And yes, I think it's nothing more than cultish thinking behind this current concentration camp health kick, and the inclusion of nonsensical cult-inspired bullshit such as "detoxing" (and more) is all the evidence I need that I'm right.
We now have people (mostly women) killing themselves to be skinny (or even skinnier-than-skinny) a constant-and-inescapable barrage of "messages" telling us to go organic or vegetarian, an insistence there's such a thing as "bad" food with no evidence to back it up, and clear lines of discrimination growing (without protest, I might add) against those who won't go along, like airlines charging large people more and doctors saying they won't treat certain patients, such as the obese and smokers.
It's all seemed very Holocaust-y to me for a long, long time.
@ann - "150 is normal weight for a woman who is 5'5." Probably not, assuming we are speaking of averages only, your endo/meso/ecto-morph type makes a difference.
That is quite heavy. That might be a common weight in our society, but we carry a ton of extra fat around on us.
If you know a good nutritionist or ortho, it's a really great topic to bring up with them. I would be startled if anyone thought that weight/height was a good combination.
I lost 60 lbs in the last 18 months and the thing that startled me the most was that my dress shirt sleeve size went down almost two inches. You can read that as I lost four inches of fat across my arms, shoulders, and neck. Holy crap.
If your prototypical five five one fifty woman started a gradual weight loss and fitness regime she'd probably be surprised where the weight started coming off. Heck, I lost almost a half a shoe size and got more arch on my foot - less fat and lower compression.
-XC
I think ndspinelli has a point, though perhaps overstates it. Among the men I know and have known, most prefer women thinner then the ones they have. There are plenty of exceptions.
I am sure fashion designers, many of whom are gay men, often follow demand by hiring waif-like models, but surely they also set fashion standards to some extent.
leslyn
"When the biologist Daniel Lieberman suggested in a public lecture at Harvard this past February that exercise for everyone should be mandated by law."
Palladian "We need to stop tolerating totalitarian impulses in our society."
There is a clear difference between these two statements. Can you detect it?
150 is normal weight for a woman who is 5'5". It's not even "overweight" let alone obese.
Actually, it is considered overweight.
As for normal weight: 5'5" and 150 lbs puts you right at the bottom of what is considered overweight according to BMI. 130lbs puts you smack in the middle of "normal".
Maybe in WI 5'5" / 150 is "normal" but that is "chunky" at a minimum, from what I observe.
A little cheeky to think that you can undo a few thousand years of sexual selection by writing an earnest op-ed in the NYT. Maybe tomorrow we'll be treated to someone vowing to be the last fat Samoan in her family.
We must never blame the gays. For anything. Especially when they so obviously dominate the fashion industry and its insistence that anything bigger than a size 2 is gross.
ricpic said...
Especially when they so obviously dominate the fashion industry and its insistence that anything bigger than a size 2 is gross.
I heard there's a new show coming out called Big Brooklyn Style that's going to counter that paradigm (which I agree is far too prevalent).
It certainly can't be women's own fault that they torture themselves to fit into a dress! Let's blame it on a few queers in the fashion industry!
Why not go further, and blame women's body image problems on the Jews who run the entertainment industry? Anything to keep from expecting women to be responsible for their own choices!
Palladian, a "few queers" come on!! Let's be intellectually honest here. I give you a good point on women making the ultimate choice to starve themselves. Absolutely correct. But, you diminish yourself w/ the "few queers" and "Jew" comments.
Anything to keep from expecting women to be responsible for their own choices!
I agree with Palladian. We are responsible for our choices. What we eat. How we exercise ....or not. What we chose to wear.
However, we do have to acknowledge that there is a cultural bias or pressure to look a certain way.
In the case of the Alice Randall, it is the 'black' culture that biases towards larger, heftier women.
In the 'white' urban yuppiefied (for lack of a better description)it is the bias towards thin or even ultra thin that is preferred.
If it is unhealthy for YOU, then you can only blame yourself if you 'buy into' the bias.
Let's blame it on a few queers in the fashion industry!
The only gay guy I loathe on fashion TV is Heidi Klum's henchman on Project Runway. In fact, I don't know he's gay but I assume it from his mannerisms. He plays a perfect Himmler to her Hitler. Since my wife and daughter love that show, I have a choice of tuning it out or leaving the room.
Yeah I'm cranky today.
The chunky look didn't work out for Elizabeth Edwards. But that's probably because Edwards' mother was skinny. Maybe black men prefer heaviier women because their own mothers were heavier....I've been skinny most of my life. It has nothing to do with character or self restraint of which I'm severely lacking. It's just my metabolism. There's a joke about rich people being born on third base and thinking they hit a triple. This joke is also applicable to body mass.....I like skinny women with big tits, but that combination doesn't naturally occur in nature. Nature is perverse. It gives us a desire for something that doesn't occur in nature.
Incidentally, does Ms. Randall know of any successful black men who left their wives to marry older, heavier women?
When I was in the Air Force (94), the weight limit for Black women was higher the limit for white women. Because you could be punished or even discharged for being over weight, white women did not like this. As far as I know this is still AF policy.
150 is normal weight for a woman who is 5'5".
Absurd.
More like 120, tops.
120 is certainly desirable, but very difficult for some of us 5'5" women to attain unless we don't care about being hungry all the time.
Also, 150 pounds in shape, with toned muscles, although not slim, is very different from 150 pounds of haven't worked out in over a decade.
Palladian,
Anything to keep from expecting women to be responsible for their own choices!
Agreed. I'd even go so far as to say they're not expected to be responsible at all. If they were, there would hardly be an abortion clinic in the country.
William,
Maybe black men prefer heaviier women because their own mothers were heavier….I like skinny women with big tits,....
Nah, it's the same impulse. You like skinny women with big tits, other men (black or otherwise) like climbing sexual mountains, or women who can give them some push-back equal to their own strength.
When I was young, I was enthralled by a black girl who had an ass the size of a Buick. Later I got into Amazons because they were huge, which intimidated most guys, so I had all their gargantuan gorgeousness to myself. Somehow I married a skinny French girl.
But now that I'm divorced, after 20 years of marriage, I haven't touched one in years because the idea of enduring another person's farts, bad breath, varicose veins, stretch marks, and do-I-look-fat-in-this-dress type questions is going to require much more than mere physical beauty can provide. (I had one recently waving her checkbook in my face and still turned her down.) Truth be told, generally, women just aren't that interesting once you really get to know them, which is why they have to be concerned about their looks - what else have they got?
A whole lot of talk about "spirituality" and a multitude of unfounded concerns about their/our health.
Find me one who doesn't fit that mold and we'll talk,...
 William,
Incidentally, does Ms. Randall know of any successful black men who left their wives to marry older, heavier women?
I don't. Nope, never heard of it. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but not in my experience that I can think of.
nah - here's the thing. You can be overweight and undernourished.
But thin doesn't mean healthy. People with high metabolisms can be thin but consume lots of crap soda and chips and not enough protein/ veggies/ fruit.
[Remember that thin guy in the University dorm who spent all of his time in the computer lab playing video games? Who only ate out of vending machines and got scurvy? Yeah - him.]
It's about what people eat. If you eat a lot of salmon and tuna and olives and and dates and olive oil and red wine you can be overweight but healthy.
Also interesting from The Belmont Club, same thread as The Superior Man:
--USA Today reported the highest obesity rates per state, and it’s not surprising that of the top 10 states with the highest rates of obese residents, nine tend to be red or conservative states based on the 2008 election results.
Republicans have referred to the unemployed as lazy and they often call those who believe health care should be a given right to all Americans “socialists,” in addition to a number of other ridiculous monikers.---
Responses:
--Urban B
Take a look at the list. Anyone who thought Southern cuisine was healthy has never been here… And they’ve never known true culinary bliss, either. Second, of the top ten fatty states, 5 are also among the top ten states with the largest black populations. And, this is strictly statistically speaking, blacks are more overweight than other ethnicities. It’s certainly not the only factor, but i didn’t even have to look at either list to know it would work out this way.
Would life be more interesting if the ignorance of journalists surprised me?--
--ntk
What they don’t mention is that the explanatory correlation for obesity is not politics but the percentage of the population that is black. These red states are full of fat black people, not a conservative demographic. (Hispanics are also fatter and less conservative than whites, but neither as much so as blacks).
Black obesity is both fairly uniform nationwide and higher than white obesity. So, all else being equal, obesity rates will vary by the racial composition of the state.
Any difference in obesity rates that can’t be accounted for by race can probably be accounted for age (young people are skinnier and more liberal).
An excellent lesson in descriptive vs. explanatory variables.
(Incidentally, it’s mostly Democrats who drink non-diet soft drinks.)--
"Find me one who doesn't fit that mold and we'll talk,..."
Where are you looking? I'd suggest church, first off.
Second - cooking class. Try Italian. No women worried about her weight is going to take an Italian cooking class.
But wives generally nag husbands to go to a doctor and get an annual check up. That's not a bad thing.
Canuck, Italians have the lowest BMI in Europe and much lower than US. Italian cooking is flavorful, healthy, and not fattening. I'm not talking Olive Garden!!
Drop the wheat. I'm trying, it's hard. I love bakery, and going gluten-free isn't the answer, that stuff sends your glycemic index up. I think Gary Taubes is right.
ndspinelli said...
Canuck, Italians have the lowest BMI in Europe and much lower than US. Italian cooking is flavorful, healthy, and not fattening. I'm not talking Olive Garden!!
==================
And the Italians are breeding themselves into extinction while obese black, hispanic, and Muslim women spawn away.
There is a reason why all the early ferility goddesses were big-titted and fat. And why men that want lots of babies go to fat women.
Fat=Fertility.
While there are genetic exceptions like naturally skinny petite women, and Somali women....by and large, if you see some young skinny white woman with ideal US Government fat content ...chances are that woman is childless.
While the 250 lb Big Black Mommas helding into KFC and trying to pay for their luncheon buckets with food stamps tend to be Mommas, as the descriptor goes.
Mommas of many.
A whole lot of talk about "spirituality" and a multitude of unfounded concerns about their/our health.
Find me one who doesn't fit that mold and we'll talk,
Lookin for love in all the wrong places
Click to see a picture of Alice Randall.
Man, this lady is FAT!
Come on, let's just let the dog out of the kennel and let him walk about a bit ... American black women are not only obese. They are almost supremely unattractive, and I don't mean that just physically.
Have you watched the way they treat their black men? We're talking abuse here, folks.
Spinelli - yeah the traditional Mediterranean diet is great. But not the American love of starch.
Big Night:
Woman: "Excuse me. Didn't you say this would be rice with seafood"
Secondo: "Yes. It is Italian Arborio rice, the best. Then with shrimp and scallop and--"
Woman: "I just don't see anything that looks like a shrimp or scallop. I mean, it's just not what I expected. But I get spaghetti with this, right?"
Secondo: "Why? Well, no…"
Woman: "I thought all main courses come with spaghetti."
Canuck,
Where are you looking (for a woman)?
I told you, I'm not. If anything, I'm bored with them.
I'd suggest church, first off.
An atheist looking for a woman in a church - and doing it to get away from talk of "spirituality"? Dude, you're hilarious. I can see it now:
Me: "Why should I date you?"
She: "Because I'm a friend of Jesus."
Me: "I am so out-of-here,…"
Second - cooking class. Try Italian. No women worried about her weight is going to take an Italian cooking class.
That's not half-bad advice. I could use a few pointers in the kitchen anyway. And I like italian food. Hate cooking, though. Still, not half-bad.
Wives generally nag husbands to go to a doctor and get an annual check up. That's not a bad thing.
Yes it is - who the fuck wants to be nagged? Mind your own fucking business, woman, nobody needs to hear that shit. We live/we die. That's how it happens. Quit freaking out, accept it, and either figure out a new priority for your interests or get the fuck away from me, 'cause I ain't got no time for listening to bullshit. As long as I'm fine, I'm fine, and whenever the time comes that I'm not, I'll deal with it. But having grown up in the ghetto, I think I've got a pretty good handle on how this life thing works, and - if there's one thing that's clear - worrying about your health is of no help at all. The body is far more resilient than yuppies and the like give it credit for, and, contrary to popular belief, most people without insurance or the means to see a doctor regularly do just fine. I've already outlived almost every friend I grew up with, so I know I'm doing something right, and don't plan on changing anytime soon. And, I assure you, being nagged to do so is no way to ingratiate yourself because it won't work.
Leave me the fuck alone.
DBQ,
Lookin for love in all the wrong places
Baby, I just walked outside.
Now, where do you and Synova hang out? That's what I want to know,...
leslyn,
If men stopped having unprotected sex, women would stop having abortions.
Because everyone knows those men are having it by themselves, right?
[Mental note: scratch leslyn off list of potential suiters. Not smart enough to lick my balls,…]
Sorry ndspinelli, but this isn't about anecdotes. This IS a racial and sex issue. Black women are obese at rates much higher than that of white women. The increase in obesity is even more disproportionate.
Here's but one chart.
Women (%) Adolescent girls (%)1 Girls (%)1 Men (%) Adolescent boys (%)1 Boys (%)1
Non-Hispanic white 30.1 12.4 11.6 27.3 12.8 12.0
African-American 49.7 26.2 22.2 28.1 20.7 17.1
The fact is that without men, white or black, obesity rates would be much higher.
The facts are there. Look them up.
So fat is bad but anorexia is an epidemy.
Facts: main causes of obesity: no smoking, Prozac,air conditioning
Evolution: the natural state of mankind until 1750 was hunger. so people ate as much as possible.
Until 1950 the main cause of death among women was birth labour.Only women with very wide hip survived.Then came cesarean without killing the mother allowing non fat woman to survive . Until them men that liked fat women had many children that like fat women. Men that liked thin women ended widowers without kids.still there are more descendants of the former.
Healthy voluptuous women were the norm until recently. Marilyn,Raquel Welch, Ursula Andress, Sofia Loren,Brigitte Bardot not to mention the fat Venus of Altamira or Rubens´ women.
My wife used size one when we married , she was 22. She was working as a clerk while studying laws. Now a more healthy 6
A woman takes into her own hands the responsibility for her health, and to determine her own body image--regardless of what men think about it and she will end childless
Canuck, Quoting Big Night makes it tough for me to call you a shithead.
"Quoting Big Night makes it tough for me to call you a shithead."
:) Big Night is a great movie. The final scene in the kitchen is my favorite.
My point about 5'5" and 150 pounds is that it's average height and the weight is the top of the "normal" range.
If a woman is taller, and the average height of a black woman is taller, she could weigh more than that and be within the normal range. If she's 6 feet tall, she could weigh 180 and be within the normal range.
If you want to tell me you think women that heavy aren't attractive to you, that's a different issue. But the point is that many men, especially black men (apparently) think the high end of the range is nicer, and they might even have a preference above the officially "normal" range. What is normal? Is it normal for white people or for black people?
I don't think there's a scientific answer.
Obviously, it's a problem when people are getting diabetes, and nobody wants their loved one to get into that problem, and people need to help each other. But if we're talking about beauty standards... to each his own.
Leave me the fuck alone.
This is a good general philosophy, and an excellent answer to most unwanted questions and unwanted "solutions".
One thing no one's mentioned here (except tangentially by expatish) is how that weight is distributed in different women. And women of different races and ethnicities.
Some women carry the bulk of that extra weight in their hips, thighs, butt. Whereas some carry it around their waist and stomach. That makes a difference: not only in how a woman looks (and how attractive she may be to males of the species, evolutionarily attuned to signs of "fertility"), but also to her health.
If I'm not mistaken, studies have shown that carrying fat around your waist is correlated with a higher incidence of heart disease etc. Carrying it on your hips, thighs, & butt-- not so much. So when you're talking about weight and women's health, those "extra" pounds (being "overweight" according to an arbitrary measure applied to all women of all types) may not be as relevant as their location on the body (or the waist-to-hips ratio).
5'5 and 150 on a black or Puerto Rican girl with "back" and on a white girl who's round around the middle: different things. The former may be perfectly healthy and the latter may not be.
And that likely plays some role not only in weight differences among women of different races/ ethnicities/ nationalities, and the health consequences of that extra weight, but also in what their men may or may not find sexually attractive.
Yashu: You're comparing apples and oranges...err, apples and pears.
Glad to see that Vogue says underweight models need not apply and Israel has banned super skinny models from advertising.
Also a 5'5" woman weighing 150 is far from being overweight.
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