Althouse: Paterno and Spanier are out now at Penn State.

November 9, 2011

Paterno and Spanier are out now at Penn State.

That was necessary.

208 comments:

1 – 200 of 208 Newer› Newest»

Titus said...: Good.; 11/9/11, 10:17 PM
dhagood said...: good. now let the lawsuits begin.; 11/9/11, 10:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Tragic -- in the literary sense of the word.; 11/9/11, 10:18 PM
Petunia said...: Why isn't Mike McQueary out too? He bears more responsibility than Paterno.; 11/9/11, 10:19 PM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/9/11, 10:20 PM
Meade said...: A teaching moment.; 11/9/11, 10:22 PM
edutcher said...: Initially, the articles were saying Paterno'd be allowed to retire at the end of the season.

Like GodZero's Christmas Tree Tax, the proposal met with unfavorable feedback and had to be shelved.; 11/9/11, 10:24 PM
traditionalguy said...: The condonation of child abuse was the issue.

Treating Paterno with respect and favor that Paterno had treated Sandusky with would have surrendered the Trustees authority to that child abuse ring just like Paterno had done.

Somebody on the Board of Trustees is doing their job!; 11/9/11, 10:24 PM
dhagood said...: If only Duke's had fired Richard Brodhead and a slew of upper administrators after the lacrosse case hit the fan...

this. good on penn state for taking the obvious action. bad on duke for refusing to take the obvious action.; 11/9/11, 10:27 PM
David said...: Next question:

What did board members (each and every one of them) know, and when did they know it?; 11/9/11, 10:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Meade -- Interesting that you say that. Because today I was trying to imagine being in the mind of this monster Jerry Sandusky -- knowing that it's wrong to rape children, knowing that it's against the law, knowing that I was taking advantage of a position of authority, knowing that I was putting so many people and an entire university and state at risk -- knowing all that and then doing this hideous thing, anyway, again and again and again. And all the while maintaining a pretense to the outside world.

I concluded that it's hard to stop somebody like that. The way to stop it is to educate everyone else. The only people you can teach is everybody else to speak the fuck up, whatever the perceived short-term cost.

So, how do you have that conversation with, say, your five-year-old son?; 11/9/11, 10:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Good job, Penn State board!!!

That's what you need to do when a scandal erupts: clean house, fire anyone with least bit of dirt on their hands, and do it all well before Saturday's game.; 11/9/11, 10:31 PM
MadisonMan said...: Silence and secrecy beget shame.

The truth always comes out.; 11/9/11, 10:35 PM
MadisonMan said...: But does this mean Jay Paterno won't succeed his Dad?; 11/9/11, 10:36 PM
Kirby Olson said...: Sandusky apparently admitted what he'd done to one of the mothers and said that he wished he was dead. I wish he was dead, too.

For once I somewhat agreed with J. J said someone should just smash his septum.

But what's odd to me about Paterno's comments have been how this was such a tragedy for HIM. And for Penn State. Doesn't he have any loyalty to humanity itself?

It's like football is everything. I think they should cancel their entire season and get a sense of perspective. The entire community should do penance for at least a decade.

Football is stupid, and brings out the stupid beast in people. It should be banned. If this was one of the clean programs, then the whole sport should be outlawed. I can't believe they are going to play the game on Saturday, and that students are upset that Paterno is out.

There are more important things than winning a stupid game.

And it really is a stupid game. These people might as well all be zombies in a postapocalyptic rite. Why don't the trustees go all the way and fire the entire team and ban football at the school for a decade or two?

What on earth?; 11/9/11, 10:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Where is this Sandusky guy now? Is he in jail?; 11/9/11, 10:38 PM
KCFleming said...: Contra Shouting Thomas's argument, it's distressing how quickly decades of effort and goodwill can be undone.

Rather than simple math with its ledger of plus-versus-minus, it's catastrophic calculus.; 11/9/11, 10:41 PM
Terri said...: Yes ... the court of law is very different than the court of morals; 11/9/11, 10:42 PM
mishu said...: Calm down Kirby. It's not like each and every football coach fucked a kid in the ass.; 11/9/11, 10:44 PM
garage mahal said...: This will stop the visual of Paterno triumphantly getting carried off the field on players shoulders after his last game.

The district attorney that chose not to prosecute Sandusky has been missing since 2005.

Odd?; 11/9/11, 10:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Paterno deserves jail time.; 11/9/11, 10:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Garage -- It is odd, I guess, but he chose not to prosecute. So that immediately puts the motive to kill him on a parent of one of these children, right? I mean, that's the obvious script.; 11/9/11, 10:48 PM
dhagood said...: have the statute of limitations expired? the fact that somebody decided not to prosecute then doesn't necessarily mean somebody can't decide to prosecute now.

seems to me people that anally rape 10 year old boys belong in jail.; 11/9/11, 10:53 PM
Kirby Olson said...: mishu, they all knew, so they enabled it. They should have the decency to kill themselves. Since they have no decency, they should be cleared off the campus. Who invented football anyway? It's a stupid sport for beasts in human form. Paterno is obviously morally insane, and anyone who worked with him should have realied this.; 11/9/11, 10:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Lew -- It is my understanding that all of this stems from grand jury proceedings, which are by nature part of the criminal court system.

Is that wrong?; 11/9/11, 10:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Kirby -- Football is awesome. This has nothing to do with football, any more than the Tate-LaBianca killings had to do with the White Album or Ted Bundy had to do with law students or Ted Kazyjksiunski had to do with mathematics.

This is just human depravity. You sound ridiculous.; 11/9/11, 10:58 PM
garage mahal said...: So that immediately puts the motive to kill him on a parent of one of these children, right?

Or maybe he changed his mind about prosecuting.; 11/9/11, 10:58 PM
rcocean said...: Do we have any proof this happened except one guy said...?

Just askin'; 11/9/11, 10:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Garage -- That's certainly possible. Of course, prosecutors deal with a lot of nasty people. I'm always surprised that you don't see more killed. That actually is a point to you, as we are obviously dealing with a real monster here in this Sandusky.

RC -- Apparently, the evidence is overwhelming.; 11/9/11, 11:02 PM
Titus said...: I am a fag, but I absolutely hate pedos. It is gross and disgusting.

Please do not associate fags with pedos.

Thank you.; 11/9/11, 11:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Who is associating fags with pedos?; 11/9/11, 11:04 PM
dhagood said...: seven, per the times article:

Sandusky has been charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year span, and two top university officials — Tim Curley, the athletic director, and Gary Schultz, the senior vice president for finance and business — have been charged with perjury and failing to report to authorities what they knew of the allegations.

neither spanier nor paterno have been charged with anything. i don't believe that it's illegal to have knowledge of child rape and fail to act on it, but it is a moral failing of the first order.

the times article also mentions that the board of trustees 'fired' paterno. good for the board.; 11/9/11, 11:10 PM
Titus said...: I am just sayin Seven.

I just don't want any association.

Because when any of this shit comes up someone talks about the fags.; 11/9/11, 11:11 PM
MadisonMan said...: Sandusky is not in jail. Per wikipedia, he is free on $100000 bail.; 11/9/11, 11:14 PM
David said...: How about a closer look at the board of trustees? It's hard to believe that there wasn't some kind of rumor mill about this. Did any board members have knowledge or suspicion that should have been acted upon?

And I agree with Garage that the disappearance of the DA is creepy suspicious.

Just how ugly could all of this get?; 11/9/11, 11:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Lew -- I thought you were talking about Sandusky. I think we are in agreement.

The only things others could be charged with are petty technical crimes that you and I and everybody could be charged with at any time. They did nothing legally wrong, even if they knew. What they did was if they knew was grossly, disgustingly, burn-in-hell morally wrong and abominable, but I don't see criminal charges.

Civil claims are a whole different story. Penn State will be paying in the hundreds of millions, and that's if they settle.; 11/9/11, 11:16 PM
Presley Bennett said...: I realize that Paterno is an icon at Penn State but this doesn't seem like a difficult decision. There is no way the University could allow him or the President to continue to have any kind of role there. So yes, necessary and entirely proper. This is a public institution, it has to be answerable to more than just those who support the football program or revere Joe Paterno. The Governor of the State is on the Board as are several other state officials so I imagine this wasn't a hard decision to make at all. They want to try and get away from the stench of this as quickly as they can.; 11/9/11, 11:16 PM
Chip S. said...: I haven't been in the other Paterno threads, but I presume it's already been noted that Sandusky may be going from Penn State to the state pen.

Posted it anyway.; 11/9/11, 11:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey, wanna laugh and be horrifically sickened at the same time:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017979/1/index.htm; 11/9/11, 11:21 PM
Kirby Olson said...: I am glad to hear this from Titus. Just sayin.

Football is a monstrous game for any and every form of psychopath and sociopath.

All the statements coming from within the team are like listening to apes in human form. Planet of the Apes.

They should have the decency to cancel their season. Good lord. They're excited about Saturday's game at Penn State? Please, this is dsigusting beyond belief.

I hope the people who go choke and die on hot dogs.; 11/9/11, 11:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Football is a monstrous game for any and every form of psychopath and sociopath.

Couldn't the same be said of commenting on blogs?; 11/9/11, 11:25 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Football is a monstrous game for any and every form of psychopath and sociopath.

That's precisely why I enjoy the game so much.; 11/9/11, 11:32 PM
Cedarford said...: Titus said...
I am a fag, but I absolutely hate pedos. It is gross and disgusting.

Please do not associate fags with pedos.

=============
Statistically, homosexuals are far more likely to be pedophiles or pederasts. And more likely to have multiple victims or eager young adolescent boys as into it as the gay perp (most of the adolescents the RC priests did were gay & willing).

Pederasty is a homosexual tradition that goes back to ancient times. Older man, younger boy is the pairing..; 11/9/11, 11:32 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Regular people hate child rape a lot more than they love football.

Good thing.; 11/9/11, 11:34 PM
MadisonMan said...: Seven, thanks for the link to that article. You described it perfectly.

Maryland dodged a bullet.; 11/9/11, 11:37 PM
dhagood said...: seven, good god almighty, that link of yours is really something :(

wv: lusner, damn right!; 11/9/11, 11:40 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Kirby,

You're up in Delhi? I'm in Woodstock. Ride my Harley up Route 28 to Delhi frequently.

Your football comment initially led me to believe that you are just the normal liberal absent minded professor.

But, your blog is pretty good. A lot more varied and unpredictable than I would have imagined.

By the way, doesn't look like PSU is turning its back on football. First potential candidate for new head coach: Urban Meyers.

I'd suspect Meyers would cost them $3.5 million per year or so.; 11/9/11, 11:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Was Maryland going to hire Sandusky?

I tell you who I feel bad for, the whole damn town of Sandusky, Ohio.

And it's Meyer. I have a last name with the s thing. That shit drive me crazy.; 11/9/11, 11:42 PM
Chip S. said...: Sandusky's now officially a non-person at PSU.; 11/9/11, 11:46 PM
Known Unknown said...: It's Urban Meyer ... And he's probably coaching at Ohio State next season.; 11/9/11, 11:47 PM
Known Unknown said...: Sandusky's now officially a non-person at PSU.

He's also apparently guilty before being proved innocent.

(For the record, I think he's guilty, but this is a little bit of jumping the gun.); 11/9/11, 11:48 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: It's Urban Meyer ... And he's probably coaching at Ohio State next season.

Ohio State is well known for its psychopaths and sociopaths.

Pretty monstrous, too.

I still remember that punch Woody Hayes threw at that kid. What a way to go out!; 11/9/11, 11:49 PM
Meade said...: "[The Penn State board of trustees] want to try and get away from the stench of this as quickly as they can."

Everyone does. But what I meant by "teaching moment" is that, if everyone now musters up the courage to look at this horror in its entirety - no firewalls, no suicides, no more cover ups - then the victims may find a path to some relief and restoration, the wrong-doers will meet justice, and future crimes of this sort may be prevented.

Seven Machos said...
"So, how do you have that conversation with, say, your five-year-old son?"

I think it begins with taking every opportunity to teach him the Golden Rule and the difference between being a tattle tale and telling the whole truth when you witness a wrong.

I sympathize with Kirby. Why do sports and entertainment seem to attract so many sociopaths who then become so richly rewarded? Do we fans have any shared responsibility for enabling these twisted corrupted souls?; 11/9/11, 11:52 PM
Chip S. said...: He's also apparently guilty before being proved innocent.

They may well have erased him simply to avoid graffiti on the mural.

The blue ribbon on the chair seat was weird.; 11/9/11, 11:53 PM
Anonymous said...: E.M. -- Here are my thoughts on guilt:

1. If the prosecutor believed there was even a chance this man was innocent, he would have waited until after the season was over.

2. The University is privy to facts to which we are not. Its actions in forcing out Paterno and the president speak volumes about the evidence concerning the allegations.

3. It is my prediction that Sandusky pleads guilty or commits suicide. I would have committed suicide already, but I am not going to be anywhere near in his situation. I mean, you talk about easy-to-follow bright-line moral rules...; 11/9/11, 11:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Thank you, Meade. Truly. You never disappoint, and that sage wisdom has gone into the email I keep to myself about the critical things I must impart to my sons.; 11/9/11, 11:58 PM
Wally Kalbacken said...: Ignore homosexual pedophilia/hebephilia at your peril!; 11/10/11, 12:07 AM
rcocean said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/10/11, 12:08 AM
Palladian said...: "Ignore homosexual pedophilia/hebephilia at your peril!"

Ignore "Wally Kalbacken" to your advantage.; 11/10/11, 12:11 AM
Anonymous said...: RC -- If it's any consolation to you, I do have a life and I sometimes will spend a day here when I have work that needs to be done that I don't want to do.

I am glad but sort of sad that someone is reading all my posts, though, as I procrastinate obstinately. Glad because who wants to shout into a void? But sad because, my God, you are sitting here reading all this and you don't even like it.

I know some good porn sites if you are interested. All the people involved are 18 or older.; 11/10/11, 12:13 AM
Palladian said...: "Why do sports and entertainment seem to attract so many sociopaths who then become so richly rewarded?"

Life is full of sociopaths. The famous ones just get more notice in the papers.; 11/10/11, 12:13 AM
Palladian said...: "Statistically, homosexuals are far more likely to be pedophiles or pederasts. And more likely to have multiple victims or eager young adolescent boys as into it as the gay perp (most of the adolescents the RC priests did were gay & willing)."

Do you have a link to those "statistics", mein Herr?; 11/10/11, 12:16 AM
rcommal said...: *Truly* interesting, the phrasing of the following (by McQuery,in his testimony? by the NYT, in its reportage? both?), most especially if this is the NYT's paraphrase:

McQueary testified that he saw Sandusky having anal sex with the boy. [Emphasis added.]; 11/10/11, 12:17 AM
Peter Hoh said...: Upthread there seems to be some confusion about the prosecutor who disappeared. This article should clear things up.; 11/10/11, 12:20 AM
Mark said...: Titus, I really don't get your normal schtick, but I support you on this issue.

Gay ain't pedo. Gay, okay. Pedo, not.; 11/10/11, 12:26 AM
rcocean said...: Funny how all those Pedo's are after boys.

Just sayin.; 11/10/11, 12:43 AM
rcocean said...: ALL Gays aren't Pedos. But Most Pedos seem to be Gay.

NTTATWWT.; 11/10/11, 12:44 AM
Anonymous said...: RC -- You think 10- and 12-year-old girls don't get molested by fuck-ups? Or is that different?

Are you a grass-on-the-field kind of fellow?; 11/10/11, 12:45 AM
rcocean said...: Just one more reason why the Boy Scouts need to have Gay Scoutmasters.; 11/10/11, 12:46 AM
Anonymous said...: I'm sure they will get millions in retirement, but it was the right thing to do. Paterno at least took responsibility.

The president is a trained therapist! Good grief.; 11/10/11, 12:47 AM
Chip S. said...: @rcocean--Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Dugard say hi.; 11/10/11, 12:49 AM
rcocean said...: Its like those Catholic Priests, all after young girls under 14. Oh wait, by "girls" I mean "boys".; 11/10/11, 12:49 AM
Anonymous said...: RC thinks he's being funny. He doesn't realize what a miserable fuck he is.

Elizabeth Smart and JC Duggard indeed. The people who did that were no doubt gay. Don't forget the guy in Austria who locked his daughters in the basement and fucked them every night. Certainly gay.; 11/10/11, 12:52 AM
Anonymous said...: Google

girl pedophile

About 13,000,000 results (0.14 seconds); 11/10/11, 12:54 AM
Anonymous said...: Google

boy pedophile

About 4,270,000 results (0.17 seconds); 11/10/11, 12:55 AM
rcocean said...: I mean no disrespect to those healthy normal Gays who like to have some >18 yo ass to stick their dick in or >18 yo dick to suck on.

I think you can suck on 15 yo dick in Europe and its OK. They are so enlightened.

We're just rubes here in the USA.; 11/10/11, 12:55 AM
Chip S. said...: Also, the charming and debonair Warren Jeffs.; 11/10/11, 12:58 AM
rcocean said...: Final comment. I have nothing against the Gays. Live and let live. Just stop with the propaganda and face the truth.

Just sayin'.; 11/10/11, 12:59 AM
Chip S. said...: We're just rubes here in the USA.

Certainly that's what Roman Polanski thinks.; 11/10/11, 12:59 AM
Anonymous said...: RC castigates me for overposting and then comes out with this sorry, disgusting shit. Unbelievable. Go crawl under a rock, dude. You have nothing to offer.; 11/10/11, 1:00 AM
Curious George said...: "Meade said...
Everyone does. But what I meant by "teaching moment" is that, if everyone now musters up the courage to look at this horror in its entirety - no firewalls, no suicides, no more cover ups - then the victims may find a path to some relief and restoration, the wrong-doers will meet justice, and future crimes of this sort may be prevented.

Yeah, well if you read the response of many of the students they haven't learned a thing.; 11/10/11, 1:01 AM
Chip S. said...: Just stop with the propaganda and face the truth..

Maybe you're right. But if you're right, you must have seen the data Palladian asked to see about an hour ago. Otherwise you wouldn't know for sure it was propaganda.

A link would settle the whole issue.; 11/10/11, 1:02 AM
Anonymous said...: RC -- Where are your facts to back up your truth?; 11/10/11, 1:02 AM
rcocean said...: "Certainly that's what Roman Polanski thinks."

Hey, there's a Frenchie who knew his Americans. Come to the USA, rape our kids, skip bail, and everything's forgiven because you made "Tess".; 11/10/11, 1:09 AM
Carnifex said...: PSU students rioting about JoPa being fired yesterday. All I can say is those kids have a fucked up sense of morality. You're coach condoned a grown man fucking little boys in you shower! Do they even comprehend how heinous this is? Apparently not.

JoPa has sullied any good name he might have earned in the Halls of Morality by this misplaced loyalty to a monster.

ESPN was just interviewing some of the students about the rioting, and only one showed remorse at what these animals were doing.

Sometimes humanity makes me sick to my stomach.; 11/10/11, 1:17 AM
Anonymous said...: So Roman Polanski is different right? And Warren Jeffs. And the entire congregation of his church. And the molesters of Elizabeth Smart and JC Dugard. And that guy in Austria. None of that is really pedophilia, right?

By the way, I thought you were done posting. What happened there dude? Just had to get one insight into your sorry soul in?

Also, I await a single fact.; 11/10/11, 1:17 AM
Chip S. said...: everything's forgiven because you made "Tess".

Maybe they forgave Polanski because his tastes had matured a lot by the time he made Tess. Heck, his leading lady, Nastassia Kinsky, was a ripe 16 years old when he started fucking her. By the end of shooting the movie she was 18, though, which may have been too aged even by his new, mature standards, b/c they split right after the wrap party.; 11/10/11, 1:18 AM
Chip S. said...: Also, I await a single fact.

Apparently the statistics branch of the internet is down for repairs tonight. Cedarford cited those elusive stats well upthread, but seems to have been unable to find a link yet.; 11/10/11, 1:21 AM
Anonymous said...: It's Jews hiding the statistics, and black men having crazy, wild-eyed sex with the statistics.

I am not optimistic that we will see them in any kind of usable condition.; 11/10/11, 1:26 AM
roa said...: I do not want to imply that any of the crimes that have occurred at the OWS sites are a heinous as the crimes committed by Sandusky, but serious crimes including rape were committed. In at least one case the victim was discouraged from notifying police so not only will he not be punished for his crime he will be free to rape again. But the protesters continue to receive support and encouragement from officials throughout the country rather than condemnation for encouraging violent crimes.; 11/10/11, 1:31 AM
Chip S. said...: Oh, dear, you're probably right.

Those stats will be absolutely stretched beyond all usefulness. We will find huge, messy holes in the data.

BTW, in case anyone's wondering...yes, I am also procrastinating an unpleasant task by commenting all over the Althouse board tonight. Isn't everybody?; 11/10/11, 1:31 AM
Ralph L said...: Considering the plot of Tess, I'm sure Polanski thought he was Method directing. Too bad she didn't stab him.

Sorepaw, "Duke's" is a mayonnaise brand. The head of the Duke U Board at the time later became CEO of Wachovia bank a few months before its collapse in the Panic of '08. He was on Cramer's show a week before saying the bank was fine.

Presumably, McQueary is the star witness against the other PSU admins, so they may not want to fire him at this time.; 11/10/11, 1:36 AM
Palladian said...: "We're just rubes here in the USA."

It's just you.; 11/10/11, 1:53 AM
rcocean said...: "It's just you."

Of course its just me. If it were the rest of the USA, it'd be a better country & Polanski would be in jail.

But lets be honest. As a multi-millionaire Holocaust survivor (once removed) living in Switzerland with an almost 50 year old career in movies, I feel sorry for old Polanski. Think of all the money and young babes he's had.

The poor man has suffered enough.; 11/10/11, 2:11 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/10/11, 2:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Jesus Christ. The failure of a few morons here trying to be funny is frightening.; 11/10/11, 2:20 AM
Anonymous said...: On the other hand, don't y'all think that it is important to maintain the continuity of the red-blooded American institution of college football? It is, after all, more of a conservative than liberal endeavor, as the liberal faggot pedophiles just wanna shut themselves up and do their literary theory instead of engaging in manly pursuits like FOOTBALL!

The point: Football is a conservative thing. Some of conservatism is sacrificed in the firing of Paterno. While child rape is indeed a bad thing, is it really bad enough that we should loose political yardage because of it?

Perhaps not, don't you think? Isn't maintaining the conservative political advantage more important than kow-towing to any so-called "victim", who was probably (according to Republican dogma) just asking for it anyway?

We need some conservative leadership on this issue. Romney, now anointed, should step in and restore football to its rightful place, ahead of any softie liberal concerns of justice or child welfare.

It is, after all, a shame that Saint Joseph Paterno has had to resign.

But then, after his resignation, we can all blame the liberals for it, and for tainting our dearly beloved and holy domain of football with their pathetic "victimhood".

In sum, it is all the Leftist's fault. To hell with them! Let us propose beatification for the Saint Paterno! Sure, he ain't gonna be dead, just retired, but it's close enough for Republican work.; 11/10/11, 2:21 AM
Anonymous said...: You still spelled lose wrong even after your re-post you fucking moron.; 11/10/11, 2:23 AM
Anonymous said...: So sensitive, Seven Machos?

Loose, lose, what does it matter?

It was a total troll post anyway!

But why?

I wonder... Why?

Why so sensitive are you?; 11/10/11, 2:26 AM
Christopher said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/10/11, 2:27 AM
Anonymous said...: It was a total troll post anyway!

But why?

I wonder... Why?

Indeed. And to post it twice is truly baffling.; 11/10/11, 2:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Indeed. And to post it twice is truly baffling.

As baffling as being baffled at it from the safety of pseudonymous Mexican wrestling mask?

I see your baffle, and raise you a confound, along with a flummox and a faze and a stump and a scratching of your masked head and a being Greek to your Mexican-ness and, to top it all off, a discombobulation!

I am determined to thwart you before this hand is completed!; 11/10/11, 2:54 AM
Ralph L said...: Anyone can play Bridge, but it takes a cannibal to throw up a hand.; 11/10/11, 3:13 AM
Craig said...: An assistant coach saw something in the locker room that looked suspicious to him. He reported it to his superior, the head coach. The head coach reported it to the athletic director, who in turn took it to a university vice-president who eventually got word to the university president. It's not yet clear exactly what steps all of these officials took, but an investigation has taken place, a grand jury was convened and charges have apparently been filed. Victims have been identified, statements have been taken and in the event that a trial is necessary the victims are now no longer minors, making the case substantially easier to prosecute successfully. Steps were taken in the meantime to limit the amount of further damage that could be done by individuals suspected of criminal wrong doing. What cause is there for complaint other than that the process has taken nearly a decade to go public with its findings? I don't see how Joe Paterno is in any way accountable for the rate at which the wheels of justice turn. It's to his credit that the reins to his program were not turned over to an heir apparent over whom a cloud of reasonable suspicion lingers.; 11/10/11, 3:16 AM
Ralph L said...: Steps were taken in the meantime to limit the amount of further damage
Such as?
It took 6 years after the 2002 shower buggery for someone to call the cops--after he'd had sex with another boy (allegedly). Excuse that, if you can.; 11/10/11, 4:29 AM
Gary Rosen said...: "eager young adolescent boys as into it as the gay perp (most of the adolescents the RC priests did were gay & willing)."

Yeah, that 10YO must have loved getting reamed by Sandusky. C-fudd maintains his perfect record of whitewashing molesters and blaming the victim. Damn I'm proud that he's an antisemite.; 11/10/11, 4:42 AM
AllenS said...: Dead Julius said...
On the other hand, don't y'all think that it is important to maintain the continuity of the red-blooded American institution of college football? It is, after all, more of a conservative than liberal endeavor

Bullshit.

The problem here is collegiate sports, and mostly college football athletes. The ones that are there solely for sports and to not get an education. Over the years I've noticed one college athlete after another kicked out of one school only to be taken in at another school. There are no set of morals for schools to use. It's accepted by football fans, because they want to win. Win the next game. Win against the major rival team.

The whole student athlete who can hardly read or write breeds a certain anything goes attitude. There never is an appropriate response to clean any of this up.

I'm afraid that the first person who walked in on the raping of a young boy was simply afraid of losing his football job, more than stopping the rape. Why? Because he did what he probably thought he should do, he notified the coach, and when the coach did nothing, he kept his mouth shut. He understood the pecking order.

It's the whole college football setting that caused this.; 11/10/11, 5:42 AM
AllenS said...: I forgot to include this: take notice of the students. Who are they supporting? The victim? No, they don't want anything to happen to their sports teams. That's one more reason that witnesses were unwilling to step forward. They knew that the students, and don't give me that they're conservatives, would go after them for causing problems for their beloved football team.; 11/10/11, 5:47 AM
Michael said...: College football at the Penn State level is corrupt. I might have had a different opinion if the players had forced Paterno to resign by refusing to take the field if he did. Of course they did not. The horror of this story is magnified by the abject cluelessness of the students who appear to have made it to their early 20s without any moral compass.; 11/10/11, 5:52 AM
Michael said...: Craig: Let us suppose for a moment that Paterno had contacted the appropriate authorities when he first learned of this. We can then conclude that those rapes subsequent to Paterno's contacting the appropriate authorities when he first learned of the rapes would not have occurred. This is a bit of an unnecessary explanation of the why of ethical behavior.; 11/10/11, 6:19 AM
damikesc said...: Can't feel bad for Paterno. He had the pull to have the guy punished and chose to do as little as possible. Hopefully the victims will be able to recover.; 11/10/11, 6:29 AM
MikeR said...: "That was necessary." Don't think I understand that. They deserved to be fired, pure and simple. Probably Ann isn't denying that.; 11/10/11, 6:33 AM
MikeR said...: "So, how do you have that conversation with, say, your five-year-old son?" All evidence I've seen on the subject says that it's really, really difficult. A school bus full of children witnessed sexual abuse for years, listened to lectures about it in school, and never spoke up.; 11/10/11, 6:36 AM
frank said...: Heh, according to college students Paterno is AWESOME! Then again, according to college students Obama is AWESOME!; 11/10/11, 6:40 AM
AllenS said...: Let me address earlier comments, Sandusky wasn't raping children, a word that means boys and girls. He was raping boys who happened to be children.; 11/10/11, 6:47 AM
Roger J. said...: Good for the board of trustees--and I fully subscribe to AllenS' comments about the nature of college football--Its big business and a major money maker for many schools--with the exception of the military academies and smaller schools, the student athelete meme is bullshit.

Where is the NCAA on this? Silent as usual.

Either make college football a subset of the NFL, because thats what many major programs are, or permit smaller schools where students just might enjoy playing football an amateur division with more stringent supervision of the so-called student atheletes.; 11/10/11, 7:06 AM
Roger J. said...: And it is my suspicion that the poison seeps down to more than a few high school programs.; 11/10/11, 7:08 AM
Roger J. said...: Finally: Titus: Appreciate your comment--many thanks.; 11/10/11, 7:11 AM
Tibore said...: "Kirby Olson said...
mishu, they all knew, so they enabled it. They should have the decency to kill themselves. Since they have no decency, they should be cleared off the campus. Who invented football anyway? It's a stupid sport for beasts in human form. Paterno is obviously morally insane, and anyone who worked with him should have realied this."

Ok, Kirby, we get it. You're morally outraged. So is everyone else here. The difference is, the rest of us are doing our level headed best to think our way through the situation and avoid needless hyperbole.

This situation isn't about making you feel good, or giving you a target for your grinding axe. It's not about you at all. It's about justice for then children who were raped by a sick individual.

Get off your soapbox. Your mentality is not one of justice; it's one of lynching. And there's a reason lynchings are not considered justice in civilized society.; 11/10/11, 7:17 AM
AllenS said...: Now I will address those students rioting in the streets of Penn St. I'd be willing to bet, that they have a huge love for the Occupy Whatever movement. Same thing.; 11/10/11, 7:24 AM
Republican said...: A 50 yo man putting his penis into the anus of a 10 yo boy on a university campus, deserved more follow-up than being "reported" to, and by, a high-ranking direct supervisor of the alleged rapist.

Within 48 hours of the assault, the facts changed from an eyewitness reporting the sexual abuse of a child, to nobody knowing what exactly happened.

Collegiate politics at their worst. (Next up: professional athletes who behave like thugs.); 11/10/11, 7:27 AM
KCFleming said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/10/11, 7:30 AM
KCFleming said...: Don't blame football.

Screwtape finds a way to twist every human endeavor, and victory comes not just from the evil act but when the benign human auspices under which it occurred is itself abased.

The oval office, college football, the church, foster homes, etc. etc, are good human creations used by people to commit evil acts.

I recall advice about babies, bathwater, and the error of double defenestration.; 11/10/11, 7:31 AM
Roger J. said...: Pogo--havent seen defenestration used recently except in the context of the defenestration of Prague :)

Well done; 11/10/11, 7:34 AM
Anonymous said...: I can only imagine what the Wisconsin student section would have chanted at the PennSt/WI football game in a few weeks. Even with Joe Pa gone, they probably will still come up with something classy I'm sure.

wv: station (wow.); 11/10/11, 7:41 AM
rhhardin said...: Child sexual abuse didn't exist as a public problem before about 1970, which is about the time that network news divisions became entertainment and profit centers.

Realize what entertainment this is, and then ask whether you want to participate.; 11/10/11, 7:46 AM
Henry said...: Child sexual abuse didn't exist as a public problem before about 1970

The key word being "public" for God's sake.; 11/10/11, 8:07 AM
rhhardin said...: The key word being "public" for God's sake.

I'd say the key word is entertainment.

Nothing else was new.; 11/10/11, 8:12 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Paterno became too king-like. Americans don't like kings.; 11/10/11, 8:25 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Everyone here knows a cougar is an older woman screwing a younger man. And an older man screwing a young boy is a Nittany Lion.; 11/10/11, 8:28 AM
Anonymous said...: AJ Lynch said...
Everyone here knows a cougar is an older woman screwing a younger man. And an older man screwing a young boy is a Nittany Lion.
------------------------------

I stealing this and plan to use it with abandon the next time I run into my PSU alum relatives.; 11/10/11, 8:32 AM
Patrick said...: Paterno issued a statement expressing his disappointment in the Trustees' decision. Seems his statement should express more regret for his own inaction rather than disappointment in the Trustees' action.

I've heard that there is a statue of Paterno on the PSU campus. Really, they should take it down. Perhaps you can't judge a man on one mistake, but you can judge a man on how he acts when he has massive power and thinks he can get away with stuff like this. Paterno is not all bad, but this, rather than the number of football victories should count.; 11/10/11, 8:33 AM
Patrick said...: I'd really like to hear what that 28 y/o graduate student says. Imagine, this poor kid, being raped in the shower sees someone come in. The kids probably believes that he is, finally going to be rescued by someone who is stronger than the monster raping him.

As it turns out, the 28 y/o, ex-quarterback wasn't even as strong as the kid. What betrayal.; 11/10/11, 8:35 AM
MadisonMan said...: Seems his statement should express more regret for his own inaction rather than disappointment in the Trustees' action.

That was in Paterno's retirement statement.; 11/10/11, 8:38 AM
MadisonMan said...: I stealing this and plan to use it with abandon the next time I run into my PSU alum relatives.

Tell it to Santorum. He's an alum!; 11/10/11, 8:40 AM
Roger J. said...: My thought: the victims here were the young boys being raped-the administrators and coaches being fired are NOT the victims.

Good riddance to bad garbage irrespective of their won-lost record.; 11/10/11, 8:41 AM
Patrick said...: I understand that Madman, and it probably doesn't matter, but I think someone in Paterno's position ought to take every opportunity to express that he knows that this situation is not about Paterno, but those kids that Paterno essentially allowed to be raped.

I suppose I ought to think about how much self flagellation should be required, but I would think more, rather than less at this point.; 11/10/11, 8:41 AM
Spread Eagle said...: I keep harping on the question of why did Sandusky "retire" at age 55 in 1999. Just seems odd, given his ostensible career to that point.

There's much, much more here than meets the eye. This runs deep. Let's recap:

First we get Seven Machos' link @11:21 to the 1999 SI article about Sandusky and his retirement. Looks good, says some wonderful things about Sandusky. But we now know it's a complete crock. Eyewash. Whitewash. So why did Sandusky really "retire"?

Well, then we get Peter Hoh's link @12:20 about Ray Gricar, Sandusky's would-be prosecutor who went missing in 2005. We learn there that Gricar had declined to prosecute in 1998 for a previous (and yet another) shower episode with a male child.

And then Sandusky retires.

Here's the point: As far back as at least 1998 Sandusky and his criminal perv predilections were known commodities. Was he forced out? What were the terms of that retirement (i.e., did Penn State dangle some monetary inducements, in addition to the pot-sweetener of allowing him continued access to the facilities)? At the very least the administration at Penn State knew they had a serious problem with Sandusky. And they likely knew much more than just that. And yet they gave him continued access to and use of the facilities.

It's hard to judge all of Penn State by the Sandusky case, but it's clear that a long-term corrupted culture evolved emanating from Paterno's football successes. A corruption that warped human values and norms in favor of football. Paterno should be deeply ashamed. I hope he is.

BTW, I'm not ignoring the Gricar disappearance. He went missing in 2005, 7 years after declining to prosecute. Assuming for the sake of argument that his disappearance is somehow related to Sandusky, why would he go missing 7 years later, after declining to prosecute? If one is given to conspiracy theories, it only makes sense if Gricar had been alerted to the 2002 shower incident and was reopening the case against Sandusky.; 11/10/11, 8:41 AM
gerry said...: I recall advice about babies, bathwater, and the error of double defenestration.

That entire post was great, but the last line was perfect.; 11/10/11, 8:44 AM
kjbe said...: a Board of Trustees actually steps up for a change.

This is huge and doesn't happen enough.

But does this mean Jay Paterno won't succeed his Dad?

Yes.

Do we fans have any shared responsibility for enabling these twisted corrupted souls?

Yes.

Yeah, well if you read the response of many of the students they haven't learned a thing.

Yeah, this is what false idol worship will get you. They’ve conflicted, which is expected when the false world you've constructed comes tumbling down. My hope that time and distance gives them perspective.; 11/10/11, 8:46 AM
Ralph L said...: with the exception of the military academies
The cult of football brought them a long series of scandals, going back the 40's Army cheating scandal. Their administrations compromised their integrity over and over when their players "misbehaved," to say nothing of the special deals for star players.
But they all say big time football pays for the other sports, so it's all OK.

Rhhardin, lots of things weren't dicussed publicly before 1970, from cancer to sex. Are you going all Shouting Thomas on us and saying we should ignore this?; 11/10/11, 9:00 AM
Patrick said...: "As word of the firings spread, thousands of students flocked to the administration building, shouting, "We want Joe back!" and "One more game!" They then headed downtown to Beaver Avenue, where about 100 police wearing helmets and carrying pepper spray were on standby. Witnesses said some rocks and bottles were thrown, a lamppost was toppled and a news van was knocked over, its windows kicked out."

Really? They are rioting for the guy who refused to take action against a child rapist? Words fail.; 11/10/11, 9:10 AM
Carol_Herman said...: Paterno stayed too long. And, since he's Catholic, he probably feels like a Catholic priest who never touched a child. But all eyes upon him now are accusatory.

When this tragedy flew open for the Catholic Church, where it had been kept secret for ages,it has rippled out as a disaster after an earthquake.

Sandusky was, in fact, shoved out!

Sandusky was supposed to inherit "JoePa's" title. But he didn't get there. He wasn't coddled. And, NONE of the 8 boys had parents that came forward ... either to their kids pediatricians ... or the police.

Pediatricians probably would have reported child abuse. (But I don't really know the legal obligations doctors have.)

Paterno is as much of a victim as anyone else. He stayed quiet because it was the CUSTOM to stay quiet!

How do you go after anybody who behaves by doing the customs of his time?

Penn State was faced with an old man ... soon turning 85. Who could no longer go onto the field and demonstrate anything to do with football passes. Or defense. He could no long run. And, no longer throw.

In a world where colleges were changing their coaches with the same frequency a man changes between pairs of underpants.

And, in a college system where the coaches had bigger budgets than any other part of the school!

I don't see any good coming out of this!

Is it a good outcome that it is no longer a grand thing for a Catholic kid to be an Alter Boy?

You haven't changed the culture!

Boys who are vicitmized are still choosing silence. And, blind mothers see nothing!; 11/10/11, 9:10 AM
rhhardin said...: Rhhardin, lots of things weren't dicussed publicly before 1970, from cancer to sex. Are you going all Shouting Thomas on us and saying we should ignore this?

I'm questioning the pleasure you take in it.

As for discussed publically, it wasn't known to be interesting to a viable audience to the point of being profitable.

Plato's Phaedrus never made it to best seller, after all.; 11/10/11, 9:14 AM
MadisonMan said...: They are rioting for the guy who refused to take action against a child rapist?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.; 11/10/11, 9:14 AM
Carol_Herman said...: A friend of mine, a chemist, got his credential from Penn State. So I wrote him an email and asked if he knew Peterno.

"JoePa" he said, was his nickname.

JoePa got to Penn State back in 1963. And, taught gym classes. My friend had this class. And, still remembers what he was told, there.

JoePa announced to his (male) students that even though he, himself, was Catholic. his wife used a diaphram. So they could have kids when they wanted to. (1963 was before the pill. It was the most common form of birth control a married woman could get. Because she was "fitted" by her gynecologist.)

Peterno said, "as a Catholic, we use birth control. And, the least you fellas can do is use a condom."; 11/10/11, 9:15 AM
rhhardin said...: Cancer is now profitable through fear mongering.

There were plenty of seven warning signs articles in the 50s, but not nightly news: "more at seven."

News as entertainment is the great shift.; 11/10/11, 9:17 AM
Carol_Herman said...: How did Sandusky get a 10 year old kid to take all his clothes off "and, step into the shower?"

What happened when the small kid got home? He didn't discuss, with his parents, HOW he got team tickets. The parents probably wanted to believe their "cute kid" got a benefit from the college ... for "being cute."

THE TRAIN STOPS RIGHT HERE!

You wanted Paterno to blow a whistle?

Parents didn't want any whistles blown.

Kid probably heard, at home, how thrilled his dad was to get "free tickets!"

YOU GOT HAPPY TALK!

Hold the parents responsible!; 11/10/11, 9:17 AM
Anonymous said...: And the student population once again demonstrated a lack of any logic and integrity this morning. What are these kids being taught? Their reaction is disgusting. Perhaps even trumping UW for the most self absorbed student body.

GO NEBRASKA!!; 11/10/11, 9:20 AM
Patrick said...: Did I get a fact wrong, Mad Man? Let me know, and I'll correct or clarify.; 11/10/11, 9:20 AM
knox said...: Glad they kicked Paterno out now. I was wondering how he was going to show his face on the football field.

Final comment. I have nothing against the Gays.

You just like to imply they are rampaging pedophiles...; 11/10/11, 9:22 AM
MadisonMan said...: Refused to take action?

Here is an article on this whole affair. It makes some interesting points.; 11/10/11, 9:23 AM
Kirby Olson said...: It's good that it's all come to light. By what process did that happen? I salute those who helped. I still think their season should be canceled. I imagine that many of the students would exonerate Paterno if not Sandusky. I hope the juries or judge does not. He will serve two years probably?; 11/10/11, 9:23 AM
Brian Brown said...: MadisonMan said...
Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

Which facts would those be?; 11/10/11, 9:24 AM
MadisonMan said...: By what process did that happen?

My (limited) understanding is that Sandusky was volunteering as a football coach at a middle school. He blew a kid -- I think this was 2008, the kid told his Mom, and things took off from there. I'm not exactly sure how the McQueary incident came to light, other than through the Grand Jury, which sprung from the incident in 2008.

That's my possibly wrong understanding of the timeline.; 11/10/11, 9:33 AM
KCFleming said...: TCB-n-a-Flash said...
"GO NEBRASKA!!"

You know what the "N" stands for on their football helmets?

Nowledge.

I grew up in Omaha and learned to bow towards Lincoln on game days every fall.; 11/10/11, 9:34 AM
Anonymous said...: Jay said...
MadisonMan said...
Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

Which facts would those be?

11/10/11 9:24 AM
___________________________

Read the link that Madman posted. It has the perspective that has been lacking in this thread.; 11/10/11, 9:35 AM
Ralph L said...: Rhhardin, I wasn't referring to the news business--I mean people didn't talk about them, except sotto voce. You can argue that TV & movies opened the floodgates, but there was a big cultural change throughout the western world. I think they just rode the wave.

Do you remember "Cat on a Hot TIn Roof?" They were afraid to tell Big Daddy he had cancer.; 11/10/11, 9:36 AM
Patrick said...: Thanks for the link, Madison Man. It has some interesting points, but doesn't persuade me.

"The GJ report doesn't say Paterno didn't follow up, and it doesn't say he did follow up." I don't think that it it unreasonable to believe that someone in Paterno's position, hearing of child molestation should continue to follow up until a police investigation has been initiated. Anything less is unacceptable. Why even consider allowing a guy like that on your staff, or in your building? As head coach, even nominally, Paterno had the pull to make sure the situation was resolved, in one way or another.

Yes, the media focus is on Paterno, but I think the Huffpo writer is wrong that no one is writing or talking about the perp Sandusky. A quick google search would tell anyone that.

Is Paterno the biggest villain in this? No, the perp is. But bad guys often are able to do what they do because someone who can stop them refuses, or fails to. Given the stakes, that's pretty damn bad. In the face of that, I don't care at all that "all he wants to do is coach four or five more football games."; 11/10/11, 9:37 AM
MayBee said...: MadMan, that HuffPo article is full of weak sauce.

Things like this:

Pick out the part where it says Joe never went back to Tim Curley or Gary Schultz to see what was happening in the process. It never says he did, but it sure as hell doesn't say he didn't either.

and
3. "JOE PATERNO ENABLED A CHILD RAPIST"

Use your words better. I understand your need for emphasis to sell, but using the word enable makes it seem like Joe hand-picked the boys for Sandusky.

Here's the thing. Play all the word games you want ("enabling sounds like blah blah blah") but knowing that a child predator is using your facilities to surround himself with boys *is* enabling him.

We don't know if Paterno ever went back and asked about Sandusky. We do know the police were never brought in. We do know Paterno knew Sandusky was still using Penn State for his football camps, and did not do everything in his power to protect other children.

Maybe that is enough for you, but he should not be in a position that commands respect from young men.; 11/10/11, 9:43 AM
Ralph L said...: Cancer is now profitable through fear mongering
No, I think it was volume.; 11/10/11, 9:46 AM
The Scythian said...: Lars wrote:

"Read the link that Madman posted. It has the perspective that has been lacking in this thread."

When Paterno discovered that a friend and colleague who was intimately connected with the Penn State football machine was fucking little boys up the ass in the showers at Penn State, he didn't call the cops. Instead, he talked it over with some school personnel who simply took away the rapist's key to the showers and told him not to bring his boys on campus.

Those are the relevant facts, and they provide all of the necessary perspective.; 11/10/11, 9:48 AM
MayBee said...: From MadMan's HuffPo link:

Sensationalizing a story led to Joe Paterno being the first man to lose his job in this fiasco. And while I have no qualms about saying Joe had to step down after this mess blew up, when looking back at the facts, is he really the first man who should have gotten the axe?

That's incorrect as well. Schultz and Curley had already stepped down, and the university president was also fired by the trustees last night. And obviously, Sandusky was arrested.; 11/10/11, 9:48 AM
gerry said...: And, since he's Catholic, he probably feels like a Catholic priest who never touched a child.

Bug, meet Carol's butt. Go up into it. Never leave.

And, this is, perhaps, the most severe and ridiculous non-sequitur you've ever slobbered onto a keyboard, and it's bigoted, to boot.

Are you ever sober?; 11/10/11, 9:49 AM
Craig said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/10/11, 9:49 AM
KCFleming said...: This is a Shakespearean tragedy, in which the protagonists are capable of both good and evil but their sins devour them, and all are wounded. Now is the time for tears and reflection.

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
...For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.; 11/10/11, 9:50 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: Please do not associate fags with pedos.

I agree that we shouldn't associate such. I would suggest that allowing NAMBLA to participate in gay events back a couple of decades ago was, in retrospect, a strategic mistake on the part of gays. That was essentially admission that pedophilia was just another form of gay, and to discriminate against such was equivalent to discriminating against homosexuals on the basis of choice of sex partners.

And, of course, there is a difference. Titus, et al. here may choose sex partners of the same gender, but those partners are adults, and as a libertarian, I can accept that two consenting adults can do whatever they want in the privacy of their homes. But, pedophilia, by definition, is not between consenting adults, but rather, between an adult and a child, with the child being exploited by the adult.

I am frankly unworried whether or not homosexuals are more likely than not to participate in pedophilia, because the question is whether this person or that person is a pedophile. Even if this homosexual is a pedophile, most are not, and it is unfair to all the non-pedophiles to tar any of them because of sexual orientation, or, indeed, gender.

BTW - I hope I haven't offended anyone here by the use of "homosexual". I would usually use "gay", but since NAMBLA was, at least at one point, considered gay enough to march in gay parades, I wanted to make a distinction here. And, "fag" is one of those words, like the "N" word, that can really only be used by those who fall into that category, and not by the rest of us.; 11/10/11, 9:52 AM
MayBee said...: took away the rapist's key to the showers and told him not to bring his boys on campus.

They didn't even tell him that. They still allowed him to run football camps on campus.
And allegedly, Sandusky used that camp to find at least one other boy in 2007.; 11/10/11, 9:52 AM
ndspinelli said...: Just a few observations. I'm reading that joepa wanted to go out w/ dignity which is why he attempted his preemptive resignation. He called the shots for decades so I can't fault a doddering former great man for thinking he could. Even being summarily fired, he was afforded more dignity than those kids.

The similarities between this and the Catholic Church abuses is striking. Obviously, with the Church being a worlwide enterprise, it was more heinous. But, you continue to see how an insular, all male, hierarchal, revered institution is fraught w/ danger. It would do the Church well to have a Board of Trustees. As I've said previously, all female organizations also can have the same issues. The big difference being that except on rare occassions, it is the male sex that has predators. And, when righteous males don't eliminate the predators..they flourish.

Finally, on a personal note, I'm heartened to see a chastened ShoutingThomas. His tacitly acknowledging he was wrong on this shows hope. I apologize for hitting you w/ both barrells. It's not my style. I let a lot of stuff just roll off my back. But on stuff like this..I don't give one fucking inch. I think you're an angry man and probably won't let this go. I hope and pray I'm wrong. I'm certainly secure enough to admit when I am.; 11/10/11, 9:55 AM
rhhardin said...: Rhhardin, I wasn't referring to the news business--I mean people didn't talk about them, except sotto voce.

It wasn't interesting. Don't take candy from strangers, was the kid message.

The news discovered an audience, akin to soap opera.

A nice history of child abuse, then sexual child abuse, and the social construction of reality, here.; 11/10/11, 10:00 AM
The Scythian said...: "They didn't even tell him that. They still allowed him to run football camps on campus."

They actually did tell him that; it was a result of a decision that Graham Spanier signed off on in 2002. I'm not clear on whether they followed through with the ban or if Sandusky simply ignored it, but they did tell him to keep the boys off campus.

Which makes this whole thing that much more horrible, as far as I'm concerned. It suggests that Penn State personnel were less interested in protecting kids from abuse than embarrassing themselves and the Penn State football machine.; 11/10/11, 10:05 AM
MadisonMan said...: Schultz and Curley had already stepped down

Schultz re-retired, as I understand it, and Curley was placed on paid administrative leave.; 11/10/11, 10:06 AM
Patrick said...: Paterno's first statement says this:

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care."

This fails to recognize that he has an obligation that goes beyond "serving the University and the young men." For him, it was all about football, and he lost sight of something more important.; 11/10/11, 10:08 AM
Brian Brown said...: LarsPorsena said...

Read the link that Madman posted. It has the perspective that has been lacking in this thread.

I did, and the article is stupid.

It incorrectly asserted that Paterno was "fired first"

He was not.

Spanier was.; 11/10/11, 10:08 AM
Brian Brown said...: LarsPorsena said...

Read the link that Madman posted. It has the perspective that has been lacking in this thread.

And "perspectives" are not facts.; 11/10/11, 10:09 AM
Brian Brown said...: MadisonMan said...

Schultz re-retired, as I understand it, and Curley was placed on paid administrative leave.

and then what?

Are you and your little article going to pretend the would not have been fired had that not happened?; 11/10/11, 10:09 AM
MadisonMan said...: I'm reading that joepa wanted to go out w/ dignity which is why he attempted his preemptive resignation

Damn you conflicting edits!

Given that he knew something was up in 2002, even if it's in the mildest form possible that he might have pushed himself into believing, he must've known at the Grand Jury in 2010 that a huge sh*tstorm was coming his way.

Plain old hubris to think you could outlast something like that.; 11/10/11, 10:10 AM
ndspinelli said...: Bruce Hayden, I am by no means an expert. However working cases involving both homo and hetereosexual pedophiles, I think there is probably just a small % higher homosexual. But, my belief is because of generations of homosexuals being in the closet. They may not be neccesarily pedophiles but are attracted to the same sex. When you look @ the Catholic priests, the vast majority of the victims are right @ the age of puberty. The victims are the same age as when the homosexual priest first became aware of his sexuality. So technically, these priests suffer from ephebophilia, a sexual attraction to adolescent boys. The priesthood became a respected occupation where they had kindred tortured souls and a neverending pool for their desires. But, as I've said, this is just my opinion based on my experiences..I could be wrong.

They say when we take away all of the prejudices against southpaws, we will end up w/ a culture of about ~20-25% lefties, instead of ~ 10%. Ironically, much of the prejudice keeping southpaws from being themselves is religious based. I know pitching coaches will like more southpaws!; 11/10/11, 10:11 AM
Ralph L said...: A nice history of child abuse, then sexual child abuse
Are you being provocative, or just a thoughtless ass?

I wouldn't have gotten so wound up about this if Crack and others hadn't excused the belting judge a few days ago. Crack actually went after his victim.

wv ravid -- maybe; 11/10/11, 10:14 AM
MayBee said...: Schultz re-retired, as I understand it, and Curley was placed on paid administrative leave.

Had Paterno retired immediately as Schultz did, he wouldn't have been fired last night.
Had this story not come out, neither Schultz nor Curley would have stepped out of their positions this week. That wasn't scheduled.

The HuffPo guy is simply wrong.; 11/10/11, 10:17 AM
MayBee said...: What we call all agree on, I'm sure, is the US Dept of Education does not need to investigate this as Arne Duncan has announced it will.,; 11/10/11, 10:36 AM
MadisonMan said...: the US Dept of Education does not need to investigate this

Oh Dear God.

Bureacrats need to work, I guess.; 11/10/11, 10:43 AM
MadisonMan said...: And just to be clear, the Dept of Education's plan to investigate this is completely moronic.; 11/10/11, 10:50 AM
Roger J. said...: Ralph--there was one cheating scandal at my alma mater (in the early 1950s)--and quite few cadets were cashiered--the academy recognized, and dealt with it, and didnt cover it up. There were other cheating rings that surfaced from time to time, but again, the academy dealt with them without trying to cover them up

Contrast that with the Duke, the U of Miami, and Penn State; 11/10/11, 10:56 AM
Roger J. said...: Madison Man--in the words of the fairy dancer, never let a good crisis go to waste.; 11/10/11, 10:57 AM
AllenS said...: MadMan, it doesn't surprise me that the Dept. of E will investigate. Penn State gets a lot of money from the government. They, and other institutions have a fiduciary responsibility to not let stuff like this happen.; 11/10/11, 10:59 AM
AllenS said...: I believe that colleges are under some kind of agreement with the Dept. of Ed. to inform the students that things like robbery, rape, assault... are happening on campus and to identify where these things are taking place.; 11/10/11, 11:01 AM
Anonymous said...: The writer who first started talking about this scandal hints at more. Sandusky pimped out boys to rich donors. Sweet Lord!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

As for the students, they are young, barely out of childhood, sold on the idea that their school and JoePa are their role models. They were probably drunk too.; 11/10/11, 11:03 AM
Ralph L said...: Roger, the Army scandal I'm hazely remembering hearing about involved mostly football players. At the time, Army was a top team. Would the cheating have occurred if they hadn't recruited those players?

I believe Navy made a hash of their cheating scandal in the early 90's, probably because many of them were football players.

It isn't the cover up--they were bringing in dim/flawed bulbs to have a better team, plus the usual above-the-law mentality for sports "heroes" wasn't suppressed but encouraged.; 11/10/11, 11:24 AM
Roger J. said...: Ralph: the cheating scandal occurred in 1951--Under coach red blaik, and in fact blaik's son was one of the 90 cadets who were cashiered--

Army was a football power in the 40s and early 50s primarily because most young Americans were fighting in Europe and the pacific. The academies do recruit football players, but that have to meet the same standards that I did when I was admitted. Credit the academy staff for recognizing a dealing with a problem with alacrity. And contrast their response with PSU, U of M, and other schools.; 11/10/11, 11:41 AM
Methadras said...: Now the NCAA needs to shut down their football program for at least 3 years if not forever. This cannot stand.; 11/10/11, 11:49 AM
Roger J. said...: In total agreement with Methadras--the NCAA is a joke--lets drop the bullshit and say the college football is the minor league version of the NFL

Let the NFL take over oversight--hell, at least they fine players big bucks for bad conduct.; 11/10/11, 11:54 AM
Ralph L said...: primarily because most young Americans were fighting
My father signed up for Annapolis at the end of 1945 to after being drafted. Two days at Fort Bragg for pre-induction physical was enough of the Army (or more likely, enlisted service) for him.

Apparently, they now use the NA Prep School mostly to admit football players who otherwise couldn't meet standards. Formerly, it was mostly for enlisted.; 11/10/11, 12:03 PM
newton said...: "Now the NCAA needs to shut down their football program for at least 3 years if not forever. This cannot stand."

Then, how is Penn State going to pay for the hundred-million $-plus in lawsuit settlements that are going to come out of all this mess?

We might as well empty the Penn State endowment and close the college while we're at it.; 11/10/11, 12:06 PM
newton said...: Guess I was right!

Penn State Could Owe Jerry Sandusky's Victims "Easily 100 Million in Lawsuits." Maybe even more, if more victims come forward.

As I said before, Penn State might as well close shop and surrender their endowment.; 11/10/11, 12:12 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Well, I guess there's a reason that a "mafia of silence" can develop. When Paterno couldn't rescue the end of career ... BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ROAD IN PLACE TO DISCLOSE STUFF THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS TO THE EYES OF PARENTS!

A good parent would at least have discussed what could be observed. A child who suddenly complained of pain when he takes a shit?

Blood on the underwear?

There isn't a single pediatrician who hasn't seen the physical results of a small boy having his anus penetrated?

What about the blow jobs?

What is it that NONE of the parents got to see?

They got to see the free tickets to football games! Heck. They probably BRAGGED about their "cute kid" bagging those!

Then, IT ALL BLOWS UP!

And, there's enough HOLY HELL to go around.

Wouldn't MOST PEOPLE NOT KNOW WHAT TO SAY?

It seems Sandusky was asked to retire in 1999. But the "episode" we're hearing about now ... occurred in 2002.

How did Sandusky even have keys to the locker room? He "went" back in 1998.

THEN? After the "shower report" from "McQueery" ... Sandusky loses access to the locker rooms!

Young boys, however, kept getting touched.

And, Sandusky found a way to run a "charity" for disturbed yoots. On whome he preyed.

What's the bet that lots of men have heard the rumors of young boys being manhandled by pedophiles?

I doubt "HAPPY VALLEY" is the only place where most men ... SHUT UP about what they see! Even if they just walked into the toilet to pee.

What do most parents do when their kids have to use a public toilet at a restaurant? Or a department store?

ABUSE IS COMMON!

Paterno didn't keep silent, either. HE KICKED IT UPSTAIRS! There were a whole bunch of people IN ON THE SILENCE!

No saints to be seen, anywhere.; 11/10/11, 2:03 PM
Carol_Herman said...: The rape is "spotted" by the assistant coach at 10:30PM.

THE LITTLE BOY WASN'T MISSING FROM HOME?

Of all the rapes in the world, this one was seen taking place in the Penn State's locker room.

10:30 AT NIGHT!

And, the kid shows up at home with FREE TICKETS to a college game. (Probably a pretty popular game to watch.)

NOBODY who is in on what happened called the police!

Because that's probably the response most people would have.

Here? A 28 year old man ... quietly walks out of the locker room. And, the next day he tells his dad. Who advises him to tell the coach.

The coach is told.

And, the coach informs others, higher up the administration ladder than him. Spanier, who got told ... ALSO chose to keep this secret.

Except that Sandusky's access to the locker room, was taken away.

Told to retire in 1998 ... NOBODY took Sandusky's locker room key!

That's how Sandusky had access in 2002.

And, NOBODY thought it odd that a 10 year old boy would be standing naked, hands up against the shower wall, while Sandusky, also naked, had rectal intercourse with this small boy.

He wasn't even missing from home!

His parents didn't notice that their small son was "out late?"

When the kid came home he proffered his parents the "free tickets to a football game" ... he had been given (for his troubles.)

The kid, too, SHUT UP.

Lots of people just shut up.

Paterno, at age 84 ... should have retired long ago from coaching. But didn't.

I think Paterno was forced to resign ... because he was way too old to be useful to Penn State.

I don't think anyone has learned how to bring RUMORS of activity like this to public attention.

Paterno also depended on the school's top administrator's to do "something."

They did! They finally took away the keys Sandusky had been using to return to the Penn State locker room AT WILL!; 11/10/11, 2:17 PM
Methadras said...: newton said...

"Now the NCAA needs to shut down their football program for at least 3 years if not forever. This cannot stand."

Then, how is Penn State going to pay for the hundred-million $-plus in lawsuit settlements that are going to come out of all this mess?

We might as well empty the Penn State endowment and close the college while we're at it.

11/10/11 12:06 PM

newton said...

Guess I was right!

Penn State Could Owe Jerry Sandusky's Victims "Easily 100 Million in Lawsuits." Maybe even more, if more victims come forward.

As I said before, Penn State might as well close shop and surrender their endowment.

You see how it writes itself. I just want to see the football program get shutdown wholesale. If the splash effect is that the school goes down with it, then so be it and frankly, at this point it should. The smear on its name now after these horrendous crimes were being covered up by the school itself should warrant that it needs to be sued into oblivion and go out of business. At this point, having a Penn. state degree might as well be toilet paper. They have tarnished their own name.; 11/10/11, 6:13 PM
Methadras said...: http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

Oh yeah, it gets worse. Seriously, shut the whole school down for good. Lock it up.; 11/10/11, 6:18 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Nobody calls the current pope to task for harboring secrets about priests taking advantage of young girls and boys.

Who was supposed to teach Paterno that making the issue public served anybody's interests?; 11/10/11, 6:18 PM