Daughters always want to be different from their mothers. If their mothers discovered free sex, then they want to rediscover monogamy. My daughter, Molly Jong-Fast, who is in her mid-30s, wrote an essay called “They Had Sex So I Didn’t Have To.” Her friend Julie Klam wrote “Let’s Not Talk About Sex.”Klam! What a great name — an aptonym — for a woman who doesn't want to talk and specifically wants to close off the topic of sex!
The novelist Elisa Albert said: “Sex is overexposed. It needs to take a vacation, turn off its phone, get off the grid.” Meg Wolitzer, author of “The Uncoupling,” a fictional retelling of “Lysistrata,” described “a kind of background chatter about women losing interest in sex.” Min Jin Lee, a contributor to [Jong's] anthology, suggested that “for cosmopolitan singles, sex with intimacy appears to be neither the norm nor the objective.”Jong thinks young women use the internet for "simulated sex without intimacy." Jong was famous in her youth for seeking actual in-person sex without intimacy . Or... no, she wasn't! She was famous for writing about seeking actual in-person sex without intimacy. Writing... reading... hello? That's a simulation. On the internet, women find actual real partners and then meet them in person. How many women are just hanging out on porn sites? Men, maybe, but Jong purports to tell us about young women. And Jong's evidence is what other women writers are writing. These are the writers, the simulators. What are other young women doing, the one's who aren't cogitating and regurgitating cogitations?
Generalizing about cultural trends is tricky, but everywhere there are signs that sex has lost its frisson of freedom....
Not only did we fail to corrupt our daughters, but we gave them a sterile way to have sex, electronically....
Just as the watchword of my generation was freedom, that of my daughter’s generation seems to be control....In this intergenerational battle, who is the real control freak?
The backlash against sex has lasted longer than the sexual revolution itself. Both birth control and abortion are under attack in many states...Now, she's all over the place. I think it's funny that she made "control" a big theme, then mentioned "birth control" and didn't notice the irony. Birth control... why not say the feminists who wanted to control birth were the ones obsessed with control?
Lust for control fuels our current obsession with the deficit, our rejection of passion, our undoing of women’s rights....
The ultimate in control is determining the things that will be controlled and the things that will be kept uncontrolled. Can we talk honestly about that? After you've finished preening over how free you are about the things that you like to be free about?
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81 comments:
In order to sell books, writers must generate controversy.
Outrage over something or other is always good.
Outrage over sex or lack of sex is always good for selling books.
Women are herd animals, always in search of consensus... particularly about sexual matters. No woman in her right mind would be caught dead screwing in an unfashionable manner. That would be like attending a party in your mama's full brief panties.
The girlfriends must be consulted first, then permission granted.
I tried reading the article, but after the first three paragraphs all I could hear was Charlie Brown's teacher!
And, how many backlashes have women suffered in the past 50 years?
Surprising any of them are still alive.
Of course it's about control. What do you think abortion is about, anyway?
The control of who procreates, to rid the world of the poor, the incompetent, the minorities.
The backlash against sex has lasted longer than the sexual revolution itself. Both birth control and abortion are under attack in many states...
Invent a crisis. Mount a civil rights campaign to confront the manufactured crisis.
The story of the left for my entire lifetime. The gay activist campaign in a nutshell.
Erica has lost her zip.
She is a one trick pony who can't even do that trick anymore.
Jong thinks young women use the internet for "simulated sex without intimacy."
I have for sale a usb device that transforms web sites, pictures, and prose into the best simulated sex one can have alone.
And, if you act before midnight...
Any post about Erica Jong need to have a "narcissism" label added.
Freedom to talk about sex just makes men think they can hit on women in elevators.
About control: as another has observed, if you see a mother with her daughter at the fitness center, the mom is smoking hot and the daughter is in desperate need of help. 'Here, let me help you be as wonderful as I am.' Doesn't sound like help.
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Control Freak. Now I want you to say "Control Freak who?"
Which gender has a greater proclivity toward being controlling?
It could be Ms (Mrs?) Jong just made a bigger show of it, like the rest of the hippy dippy, let-it-all-hang-out, do-your-own-thing, if-it-feels-good-do-it types.
A generation or two later, what is portrayed as "women losing interest in sex" may well be really women coming to the realization the old way worked better. Sometimes a little common sense works wonders.
PS The real howler of the piece is this, "Sex between older people is the new unmentionable, the thing that makes our kids yell, 'Ewww — gross!'".
It was the same 50 or 60 years ago; the idea of your parents doing it was sooo not cool.
One wonders where she was back then.
a fictional retelling of “Lysistrata"
"Fictional retelling"???
Erica Jong and Norman Mailer: the female and male versions of unbearable.
Mary Beth;
"Elevators" go up;
"Elevators" go down.
Rarely do they go sideways.
But then they are MANufactured by MEN.
lol
Some older people like to pretend that they invented sex and gifted it to the younger generation.
There are also some older people who think they were the first people to discover non-monogamy, even though such behavior predates civilization.
But then, you get younger people who think the same things of themselves, so maybe it's a wash.
Pointy headed intellectual women seem to like to screw for ideas.
I've never quite gotten the thrill of this, but I'm a man.
So, you get women like Stanley Ann Dunham who was screwing the Black Jesus for the sake of the revolution.
Erica Jong wasn't just screwing for the hell of the sweaty oinky fun of it... she was screwing to liberate women!
An odd phenomenon. Roissy probably is right in his explanations for this.
Molly Jong-Fast has the anti-aptonym. When it comes to sex, not-so-fast.
Fear of Flying is awful, self-absorbed claptrap.
It reminds me greatly of Lady Chatterly's Lover.
I went on a binge of reading "important" or censored works and came to the conclusion that the censors were right.
Irene said...
Molly Jong-Fast has the anti-aptonym. When it comes to sex, not-so-fast.
Good one! The Althouse Hillbillies have been on a roll recently.
PS What blake said. At least in terms of Lady C.
DH Lawrence somehow makes sex boring.
Lust for control fuels our current obsession with the deficit??? is she out of her mind.
avoiid bankrupcy is madness for her?
Does this mean there are no sexual taboos left?
Oh there's certainly one that remains. Today it is absolutely taboo for a woman to leave even one hair follicle unshaved. Even the slightest deviation from the "ideal" of the Hideous Pedophilic Bald Eagle is punished by immediate and complete social scorn. God damn it.
Peter
When are these self-important Baby Boomer asshats going to die...because we already know that they won't grow up.
There's been a backlash against sex, really? I must have missed it.
What happened? Were the Koch brothers involved?
A biological clock is right twice a day.
And, you thought Casey Anthony was a terrible mom.
While, yes. Some moms are so jealous of their daughter's, that it's hell to be one of them.
You know, it turns out that Dr. Spock, (Benjamin Spock), who wrote a parent manual back in 1940. Where he told moms to have faith that when their babies cried, they should be fed. And, not kept on a schedule that involved a clock) ... Got reported out by one of his son's ... that his dad was a terror! When out in public his children weren't allowed to misbehave. Because how would that reflect on his dad?
Here? If Erick Jong was ever afraid of flying ... she had no fears terrifying her young.
Now? Believe me ... at 72 I know this to be true. Once the egg supply dries up ... we lose our ability to attract.
While some females ... who are used to the limelight ... use Botox.
Botox erases all emotions from your face.
While "hoping to be young, forever" erases all brain cells inside the brain.
I'm also told ... the if your mom attacks you in public ... the best defense is not to attack back.
So, there ya go. Erica Jong looks desperate about growing old.
Why is that?
“Sex is overexposed. It needs to take a vacation, turn off its phone, get off the grid.”
I am pretty sure sex won't take a vacation
Vet66, I was referring to this earlier post.
a fictional retelling of “Lysistrata"
"Fictional retelling"???
My sentiments exactly.
Other than that, just because your generation thought something was a good idea doesn't mean it actually was.
Your use of the word "preening" is spot on.
Mary Beth- ha! Very good!
Freeman- yeah, I noticed Jong wrote the mothers "discovered" free sex, the daughters "re-discovered" monogamy. Jong's generation was the first and only generation to see sex in a newfangled way.
Not only did Erica Jong invent the zipless fuck, but goddammit she still owns it.
Talking aboaut names like "Klam."
Reminds me that in yesterday's trophy topper ... nearing 400 comments ... about Paul Ryan's wine bottle ...
It turns out that Professor Feinberg ... first told her tale to her friend: CRABTREE
And, then, of course, among the 400 comments ... attached to a bottle of wine ... ordered in a restaurant ... were spoofs galore.
As to sex. If you're not using a bulb baster to get pregnant ... but you're doing it the old-fashioned way, then sex "happens."
It happened when women wore devises under their skirts to have them poof out. You couldn't even see a bit of ankle. And, women covered their faces with fans.
Even so. Men found out sex "happens." It's a feature. Not a bug. Been so throughout time.
Just an aside:
My mom didn't wear makeup. My dad used to say he knew when he went to bed at night, he'd wake up in the morning, and he'd recognize her face.
Meanwhile, I not only wore makeup. I worried what I'd do so a man would never catch me without eyeliner.
We always set ourselves apart from our moms. Until we catch up.
The good ones are the salt of the earth.
Wambach GOAL!
rhhardin. @ 12:26 PM
A biological clock has rhythm.
And now it all comes down to penalty kicks.
I told you I'm not really interested in sex, and considering the majority women out there, I've got good reason.
BTW - Jong is just upset because everyone doesn't want to pretend to be gay. Sex with intimacy is better than without. It's really that simple. Sex isn't losing it's frission:
Sex with Erica Jong is.
Isn't a 70 year old saying she's sexier than a 32 year old sort of like that fat floozy in the bar, belly hanging out beneath skin-tight shirt, who begins each karaoke medley by telling all the men in the bar, "I'm fucking hawt. I'm hawter den any a'dem trashy skanks all'y'all's with tonight. Fuckin' right!"
Leave evaluations of sexiness up to the audience. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not the beheld.
The Greatest Generation knew about sex, really! Shortly after I got married years ago, I took my folks on the perfunctory tour of our newly wed digs. When we got to our bedroom, my Old Dad pointed to the bed and said "see that--that's a workbench." My mother just grinned slyly. They did good work, if I do say so myself.
As far as I'm concerned, the prize to greatest woman today goes to Hope Solo. She finally got some dirt smudges on her face, and looks all the better for it.
USA USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To: The Crack Emcee @ 1:03 PM.
Not just "IS" ... but was.
Was began before some people, here, were born.
HFS that was a great game. Frustrating as hell, but wow, what a finish.
Mary Beth;
"Elevators" go up;
"Elevators" go down.
Rarely do they go sideways.
When they go sideways, they are called trains. A train is an elevator lying on its side.
On almost aptonyms:
Alas, doctor Prickman was not my urologist. He was my Opthomologist.
Changed his name to Rickman after a few years for some reason.
The really sad thing about aging feminists is that they just don't realize that their moment on the stage, their time in the sun, their YOUTH is gone. Step aside.
As a woman and mother, you must come to the realization that it is no longer "your turn" and that you must let your daughters take the stage.
It doesn't mean that you curl up and die or that you are no longer a sexual being. You can be sexy, just in a different way.
It means that you are not a "young thang" and your role must change. If you don't realize it,refuse to accept the aging process and refuse to step to the side of the stage, you will become an object of pity and ridicule.
I am proud that my daughter is now in the "starring role". I don't mind being a supporting actress.....after all....she is everything I was, I am and what I taught her to be.
Now that I am married and am not running around I am at peace.
It is a lot of fucking work to look for sex.
I have no interest whatsoever going out or to a party in order to gauge my stock price.
I am faithful and married and fucking loving it.
I would have to say out of all the commenters here I have "grown" the most.
Sex is like air; it's not important unless you aren't getting any
Titus,
Would you to see Erica Jong's saggy old almost 70 year old feedbags?
wv: "outeda"--what Jeter said after his 3000th.
Erica Jong and Norman Mailer: the female and male versions of unbearable.
Yes. And the latter was probably the only person on earth who could get in an argument with Gore Vidal and make you root, without reservation, for Vidal.
Erica Jong is verbal Botox.
Each generation's successful revolutionaries are the next generation's reactionaries.
And TosaGuy, if Jong's going to turn 70, then she was born in 1941 -- not a Boomer.
"And TosaGuy, if Jong's going to turn 70, then she was born in 1941 -- not a Boomer."
nearly 70.....also, the boomers were influenced by people like Jong (and Abbie Hoffman), who were boomers in thought before there were boomers in reality. As much as boomers think they are original, they were influenced heavily by those a few years older than they were. She epitomizes the baby boomer attitude.
"The Greatest Generation knew about sex, really!"
Victory gals just didn't hand out doughnuts.
As a man I know mid 30s start at about 39.
WV: reficoup
Is blogger pushing uprising of house poor.
A refi coup?
Jong is not suggesting that she is sexier than her daughter only that she shunned monogamy while her daughter and others, who have contributed to her book, seem to embrace it. Of course good sex is about loss of control, which is what makes it so dangerous and appealing for some, while distressing for others and why she focuses on the word control. The pill, which eliminated much of the fear of unwanted pregnancies, actually led many of us to frolick with abandonment. I think the current Jong is more about lament over the new wave; if you read her book you will discover there are tensions between the 3rd gen of feminist and the old guard over the direction of women's movement-- and I guess this is a control issue. But for controlling the uncontrollable common, I recommend Taoism or the Karma Sutra, which show just how long we have been focused on having good sex, and not litigations on what happens in the bedroom :)
"Sex with intimacy is better than without. It's really that simple."
And potentially procreative sex is the best of all.
A self-induced orgasm is fun, sure. Involving another person without intimacy is (probably) a bit more recreational. Intimacy lends another level to the recreation because you actually connect with the other person. But procreative sex is fun, recreational, intimate and primal.
Just exactly what's wrong with hanging around porn sites anyway?
"But procreative sex is fun, recreational, intimate and primal."
Cave women are rolling their eyes from the grave.
Erica Jong has a vagina as well traveled as the New Jersey Turnpike. Funny that her daughter doesn't want to follow in her steps. Whoda thunk it?
There seems to be an “age window” in my head. At a certain point downward in age from my own females bring out the daddy in me instead of the lover. On the other end of the spectrum I can be attracted to women who are 10 to 15 years older than me but seemingly not beyond – yet.
Contemplating having sex with any teenager leaves me absolutely un-aroused. Can’t understand older fellows who run after the young ones. I’ve found that in general that sex is better with women over 40. Wouldn’t kick a 30 year old out of bed, though. Sometimes teaching is fun.
Skinny is fine but not fashion magazine skinny. Plump is OK too but not grossly overweight. Can’t(sexually) stand women who have had collagen lip injections. It makes the whole lower face weird looking. Likewise that plastic surgery look. See Pamela Anderson, Dolly Parton, Joan Rivers, LaToya Jackson, Mary Tyler Moore. The face and breasts are too subtle to be messed with. Both women and men need to accept aging and get off the youth is everything train.
Erica Jong? Can’t tell from a photograph but her age certainly does not preclude her. Sexual chemistry is a mysterious thing.
This part of Jong's list seems to work against her argument:
"Min Jin Lee, a contributor to [Jong's] anthology, suggested that “for cosmopolitan singles, sex with intimacy appears to be neither the norm nor the objective.”
This sounds much like the kind of sex Jong has long advocated.
I couldn't get past this piece of drek: "We idealized open marriage; our daughters are back to idealizing monogamy. We were unable to extinguish the lust for propriety."
Reminds me of the movie "American Swing" about sex at Plato's Retreat in the NYC 70's: "The Seventies were sexy and sleazy. At the epicenter of it all was Plato's Retreat, the controversial, first-ever swingers club. American Swing brings this enigmatic epic of excess to the screen for the first time."
wv: stoptil-as in, Don't stop till you get the clap
Then she says, “You don’t read women authors, do you?”
Least that’s what I think I hear her say
“Well,” I say, “how would you know and what would it matter anyway?”
“Well,” she says, “you just don’t seem like you do!”
I said, “You’re way wrong”
She says, “Which ones have you read then?” I say, “I read Erica Jong!”
I just don't think there's been a good Bob Dylan thread here lately.
The Seventies were sexy and sleazy.
And all of the women were positively overflowing with magnificent concentrated aromas and flavors.
[Note: the captcha word was "istud"]
Peter
Michael K @ 1:15 PM
Choo-choo. I loved that answer!
TosaGuy said:
"Victory gals just didn't hand out doughnuts."
Ummmm doughnuts--cream filled.
I sincerely apologize for that--the avatar who posted that has been sacked.
wv: gockrese--a dyslexic word for Vaseline
I sincerely apologize for that--the replacement avatar who posted that has been sacked.
I clicked through to see what the daughter looked like. She has a good natured, healthy face, but she's definitely overweight. Maybe each generation has its own way of seeking sensual comfort and hers is food.....In an interview about her mother, she claimed that Erica was the best mother that she knew how to be and sent her to the best schools and therapists. Damnin with faint praise. She was in drug rehab at nineteen, but she has not relapsed and seems to have settled into stable domesticity....It is much better to be the child of rich, famous narcissist than of a poor, obscure narcissist.
Carol sez: "Once the egg supply dries up ... we lose our ability to attract."
Really? At the place I have breakfast, a woman I had never seen showed up this morning. Well past the egg bearing state, certainly past 60. She was fantastically good looking, wrinkles, gray streaks and all. Definitely doing some attracting without even trying.
David,
At the place I have breakfast, a woman I had never seen showed up this morning. Well past the egg bearing state, certainly past 60. She was fantastically good looking, wrinkles, gray streaks and all. Definitely doing some attracting without even trying.
Women don't know about men. Not for real. They know magazine covers and "50 ways to,..." bullshit. They know we like them, but they don't know why. They think, because everybody's got one, that must be enough. What did that one woman say? All a woman's really got to do is lie there? Fucking clueless.
This bitch is making a fortune exploiting that.
"Cave women are rolling their eyes from the grave."
Well, cave women didn't have much of a choice, did they, between procreative and non-procreative sex. That's a new thing, at least with any reliability.
Its a weird... I'd say nearly "fetish"... that we've got where we (as a culture) seem to view sex and mating separate from reproduction when, biologically, our sexual behavior is the reproductive strategy for our species and some parts of that are less malleable than others.
Part of it, sure, is that we'd rather not make people feel bad, ostracize barrenness or homosexuality, but in the end it's all a genetic material depositing system starting with the "chase" where one makes the first assessment of genetic desirability indicated by health and physical symmetry.
I do think the piece pointed up some interesting issues for men in middle age right now, some of whom feel more interested in passionate intimacy than their wives. Here's an interesting response: http://bit.ly/sexdead
Is Ma Jong not getting played?
As for Erica Jong, once a horse's ass, always a horse's ass (or as Milton Babbitt said, once a Stalinist, always a Stalinist).
Hey Crack. Just checked out your blog. Liked it. Cheers and keep up the good work.
grackle,
Hey Crack. Just checked out your blog. Liked it. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Thank you. I'll try.
"What a great name — an aptonym — for a woman ..."
The word at the link is APTRONYM, not aptonym, although I prefer your misspelling to the actual word (but neither one is in my Webster's Unabridged).
Good grief. Is Erica Jong still around?
Molly Jong-Fast's paternal grandfather was Howard Fast, the author of Spartacus and about 40 other novels.
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