1. The recall elections. The article mentions the "so-called in-kind work" which "gives union members the ability to go door-to-door lobbying to defeat Republican senators facing recall." Gives union members the ability...? You mean allows unions to pay people to do door-to-door work. [ADDED: That sentence should end in a question mark. I really don't understand whether the members are paid to perform this "in-kind work" for candidates. Are they volunteers?] If you're in a recall district, steel yourself for paid [?] union activists coming to your door. Or maybe you already have the homeowner policy that I have: I don't answer the door unless I know who's there and want to see them. By the way, how many of the protesters in February and March were paid by the unions?
2. The federal court lawsuit challenging the collective bargaining legislation on equal protection grounds, the absurdly weak theory being that the state can't treat different categories of its own employees differently.
Walker's bill exempted firefighters and police officers, as well as some transit workers, from the legislation. The unions say, at least in the cases of the police and firefighters, that was political payback for their support of Walker in the gubernatorial election.Imagine courts striking down legislation on the ground that the political majority drew lines that seemed to favor its supporters! The unions also contend that free speech rights require the state to submit to collective bargaining with its employees. Here's a clue: The First Amendment protects us from compelled speech. It doesn't require it!
So that's it for the unions' strategy. How many people reading the linked article are fooled by all the bluster? The strategy is pitifully weak!
The unions suffered a crushing defeat, and the only way back — not mentioned in the article — is to regain the legislature and the governorship in future regular elections. That's a long time line, and it will give the people of the state a chance to see if the Republicans' budget fix worked.
At this point in the protracted budget battle of 2011, the people of Wisconsin deserve that information before we plunge into another big change. If the unions look too desperate grasping at strategic moves like #1 and #2, above, then Wisconsinites ought to suspect that they are afraid to let us see how good the new policy really is.
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205 comments:
1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»Unions can exist only by driving the employer eventually out of business, having to pay above market wages so that nonunion competition, overseas or not, wins.
Now the employer is the taxpayer but also voter.
Everything will depend on misinformation to extend the short term one more tiny bit.
Then it all collapses anyway.
There was an online legal analysis from Friday regarding the judge assigned the federal case. Apparently this Obama appointee has a long history of favoring organized labor in prior decisions, work and writings.
The conclusion was the unions hit a home run in drawing this guy and don't be surprised if he puts in another injunction.
If Walker is wrong and the unions are right.. the unions should politically relish the impending dooms day collapse.. whence they can go back and tell people.. I told you so.
Why do they worry so much?
@Steve Austin Even assuming this judge is a complete political hack — which I doubt — a political hack who is a judge has to work on the appearance of nonhackery. This case is so weak that a good political hack would decide against the unions in order to score some conspicuous "neutrality" points. These points are useful in future endeavors.
Apparently unions are demanding their members provide them with bank account information so they can deduct their dues automatically from their account each month.
Unions are hiring people to go "door-to-door" to [politely] ask members who haven't signed up yet why they haven't.
I would assume that a judge, even one who is a political hack, would not want to be reversed or summarily smacked down as was Judge Sumi. Those types of things don't look good on your record and don't reflect well upon your character or integrity. So one would hope that the judge would not give into his own hackery or preconceived biases and stick to the law. Hope springs eternal :-(
Wisconsin is so messed up. Unfortunately, I think the trouble that is roiling Wisconsin will be spreading soon to other States.
What will they do now? Hmmm. That's a toughie. How about cheat, lie, steal, and use any means to try and intimidate others?
You know, what they've always done.
That would be my guess.
You mean like hack judges on the Supreme Court that colluded with Republicans in this state, Althouse? If that doesn't concern you [and it doesn't] I don't think you're in any position to judge other judges.
Or maybe you already have the homeowner policy that I have: I don't answer the door unless I know who's there and want to see them.
Hah. I thought I was the only one. If I'm not expecting you there's a very good chance I won't come to the door when you show up. That's what phones are for.
"The unions also contend that free speech rights require the state to submit to collective bargaining with its employees."
All the union thugs really care about is automatic forced deductions of union dues. Follow the money!
If Walker would offer them that back, they'd trade their memberships' very souls.
He should offer it just to see what they say, and then renege just to show the rank and file what moral degenerates these union thugs are.
Unions are hiring thugs to go "door-to-door" to threaten members who haven't signed up yet and coerce them into doing so on the spot.
Nice house you got here. Be a shame if anything were to happen to it.
FIFY
"If you're in a recall district, steel yourself for paid union activists coming to your door."
Ha ha.
Politically motivated folks who visit you are a concern. Be prepared. Be very prepared.
Althouse speculates that her front door phobia may be replicated by others, but she she thinks that the unions and their supporters seem pitifully weak, because they're actively resisting. Capitulation from your home hideout is powerfully strong.
BTW, according to Althouse, Rs are opposing health care reform before it can be implemented because they don't want us to see how good it is when it's up and running.
garage mahal said..."You mean like hack judges on the Supreme Court that colluded with Republicans in this state, Althouse? If that doesn't concern you [and it doesn't] I don't think you're in any position to judge other judges."
There are 2 problems with that comment, garage:
1. I wrote "assuming this judge is a complete political hack — which I doubt..." Where's the judgment?
2. As a political independent who has been studying and writing about judicial opinions since 1978, I'm in an excellent position to judge judges. I can't think of anybody who is in a better position than I am. My credentials and credibility in this are are extremely high. Anyone who says otherwise is 99.999% more likely to be a hack than I am.
You mean like hack judges on the Supreme Court that colluded with Republicans in this state, Althouse? If that doesn't concern you [and it doesn't] I don't think you're in any position to judge other judges.
Colluded?
garbage, the garbage you put up here is hilarious!
"You mean like hack judges on the Supreme Court that colluded with Republicans in this state ..."
Garage your accusations have become steadily and increasingly more deluded each time the left suffers another defeat.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that to support your charge that Supreme Court judges are illegally colluding with political parties to rig cases that come before it?
I mean, do you realize just how delusional that accusation sounds?
You sound like a whack-job Trig-Truther.
"My credentials and credibility in this are are extremely high."
I don't think GarageMahal appreciates the benefit of credibility.
Nobody takes him seriously because he has no credibility on the issues. He always supports the liberal Socialist potion on every topic. He was first out of the gate calling WeinerGate a made up story. If a topic comes up that he can't defend, he remains silent rather than criticize Obama (such as Obama defying the WPA).
He makes charges out of thin air that he cannot back up with any evidence whatsoever and to try to score a point or push back he makes over-the-top charges that no other Democrat is making. None.
Garage either doesn't understand the value of credibility or (more likely) he's not paid to be seen as credible.
It is why he is a running joke around here.
"Unions can exist only by driving the employer eventually out of business...."
A ludicrous and ahistorical slander. Unions have helped more Americans join the middle class and enjoy the so-called "American Dream" than would have occurred otherwise, (just as the much-maligned "wealth-destroying govt. regulations" have helped bring about safer work conditions, safer food, cleaner air and water, the elimination of child labor, etc. etc.).
Capital simply refuses to share the wealth, so to speak, and with modern technologies can move around the world at will to find the absolute cheapest labor it can find in order to maximize its profit margins.
If the agents of capital could lobby for the return of slave labor in this country, there is no doubt they would do so and hail it as a "great victory" for the "free market." (sic)
A long and ugly war!
Parasites don't just cave. And, disappear. Has the mafia?
There will always be people who will take money from workers, to make sure "nothing happens to their families" while they are at work. Or, if there aren't families in abundance to intimidate; they'll run through the company parking lot keying cars.
The banging of drums won't stop.
The terror of watching someone with a 2 x 4 coming at you ... will still see the light of day.
But not all over!
And, even if you change hats from democraps to republicans ... the insiders are like the union bosses. Look to slip in laws that hurt those they can collect money from ... because political thugs take huge sums of money from thugs and banksters.
Flip the coin, though, and you'll see EduKa-shun going over the cliff. They just don't own good strategists in academia. Which is what happens when skin colors get promoted. And, lesbians come in with the genitalia.
The gold guard will die.
There will be a new guard.
Politicians lie for a living.
Thugs have clubs where they plan all day how to keep money rolling in the door. What's their inventory? Your fears of them. And, your bad habits.
The FBI will continue to collect files that will keep Clinton's empire happy.
But, maybe, these will just become small sores on the body politic?
The media complexes will be dead. Buried by new technology they ignored. And, then couldn't compete with.
Food will be hard to come by.
And, so, too, customers to buy your home. And, your stocks. This may be a feature. And, not a bug. ZOMBIE ECONOMICS is like Publishers Clearinghouse. They're in your neighborhood, now. But they're not handing out checks.
Althouse
What is your opinion on this then?
“This Monday morning we met and were assured that the Supreme Court was going to rule by Wednesday and that that legislature was going to clean up all the loose ends,” Buesing wrote in the email
How would legislators know when the court would rule? And is that proper?
Tag: "Lawsuits I hope will fail."
Heh.
You need a new tag: "GarageMahal Bait"
Ann's point about compelled speech is interesting. I always thought it's more about forbidding government suppression of speech, particularly in the cause of petitioning the government for redress of grievance.
The Lefties are forever trying to twist the Bill of Rights into things they were not only never intended to be but clearly aren't just by reading them.
Ann Althouse said...
steel yourself for paid union activists coming to your door
In Ohio, they're already here. The AFL-CIO is trying to get signatures on some petition they're going to use against Kasich.
"How would legislators know when the court would rule?"
Garage, have you ever heard of a docket?
It's a public record of when a court is convening to release opinions. That way, the people who need to be there know when to show up.
You're a fucking moron, dude. Where did you go to school?
Capital simply refuses to share the wealth, so to speak,
A ditch-digger with heavy equipment earning market wages earns a lot more than a ditch-digger with a shovel earning market wages.
Why is that?
"After the meeting, county corporation counsel Carl Buesing briefed other county attorneys across the state on information pertaining to the collective bargaining bill’s inclusion of employee contributions to their pension and health care. "This Monday morning we met and were assured that the Supreme Court was going to rule by Wednesday and that that legislature was going to clean up all the loose ends,” Buesing wrote in the email.
So, a third party casual email written by an attorney characterizing someone else's words relating a schedule question prompts you to accuse the Wisconsin Supreme Court of colluding with a political party to fix cases that come before it?
You must be kidding, dude. Really? That's what you have?
You're a joke, kid.
WV: FROFL
Fucking Rolling On the Floor Laughing
ZOMG! Another rightwing Kochtapus-funded conspiracy uncovered by aspiring Media Matters cub reporter/unpaid intern garage mahal.
This is almost as exciting as the time you broke the story about Al Gore's environmentally friendly ranch house in Crawford, Texas.
Chris Christie, in New Jersey, is a national treasure, now. It shows you what happens when you elect a governor that can't be bullied.
It also shows you that regular voters do pick "the fat man" ... who reaches them with his words and his heart exposed.
Hollywood has nothing to do with a fat man in the lead role. So reality and hollywood are different.
Andrew Breitbart was a speaker at "right on?" ... He's got the speech up at his blog. Half an hour long.
Hooks you right in.
Because Breitbart was once a liberal. He said it was easy. Because it is so SHALLOW!
Most people when they learn to swim, no longer go into the shallow end.
Then Breitbart goes on and says you've got to go beyond "singing to the choir." You must go behind enemy lines. And, one by one individual at a time, you've got to show liberals how shallow their ideas are.
In time? If Breitbart wins, the media complex dies. It's that simple.
Politics? Will continue with people of differing views voting for candidates they choose.
It's the media's rigged game that needs to be exposed.
Heck, Breitbart wasn't a "hacker." Though Shirley Sherrod is suing him for libel. To the tune of $14-million dollars.
Okay. Let's say she gets one of Obama's judges. And, her case gets a pass. And, a jury of 12 idiots. These things are about as much of a "slam dunk" as a one-armed-bandit in a Vegas casino.
Whoever thought a place like Vegas could get so busted? Well, they over-built. Which is just another way of saying they over-reached.
Obama has now brought enough harm to his own party ... he's gonna be seen as Hoover. It's only Jimmy Carter if he can be saved from his current dive.
While McCain never would have been a benefit to the republicans.
The future has its own (unguessable) way of sorting through these things. But the future still is the unknown-unknown.
ZOMG! Another rightwing Kochtapus-funded conspiracy uncovered by aspiring Media Matters cub reporter/unpaid intern garage mahal
Pretty typical strawman response from someone that has nothing. Aside from McChimpyHitlerhalliburton!!!!!
Hey, Garage ... who wrote that blog post?
GM:"How would legislators know when the court would rule?"
Really?
"LeMahieu told WKOW27 News he does not remember the exact language he used in the meeting, but denied he gave an assurance. LeMahieu said he was not tipped off by anyone to the supreme court’s intentions.
“We were hoping they would do that before the legislature, specifically the assembly, went to the floor Tuesday. But I, nor anybody else, had certainty, when that would be.”
Nothing in this story points to collusion. Grasping at straws again.
Carol_Herman said...
Andrew Breitbart was a speaker at "right on?" ...
Right Online.
It was down the street from Netroots Nation (Lefty bloggers) ironically and Breitbart crashed it at one point. A few of them got nasty, or tried to.
Your point about "the shallow end" is on the money.
All we get at the door is Jehovah's Witnesses.
"Nothing in this story points to collusion. Grasping at straws again."
And not only that, the blog post in question was written by the husband of a former Democrat Party Dane County supervisor.
Soooooo .... you know.
All we get at the door is Jehovah's Witnesses.
Put something in front of your house that indicates you're Catholic and you won't get Jehovah's Witnesses either. It's like garlic to a vampire.
Nothing in this story points to collusion. Grasping at straws again.
They were "assured" the ruling would come down when it did. That means they were in communication with the majority on the court. How is that proper conduct for impartial Supreme Court justices?
claiming to be LDS also works
If the unions look too desperate... they are afraid to let us see how good the new policy really is.
I want to tattoo this (the unsnipped original version) on many of my friends' faces. They believe in their unions with their whole, untainted hearts. One is smart enough to believe that if all public unions fell, the Democrat party would, too (yet doesn't believe the unions are corrupt /palmface.) Most believe the meme that the public unions, THEIR union, are the line between freedom and slavery.
I find it impossible to converse intelligently about unions & ideology with these people. When I'm not hopping mad, the whole situation breaks my heart. I hate seeing loved ones blinded by cultish crap.
I do hope that they must live with the new rules for long enough to see that Walker's plan is not Directive 10-289, long enough to see that the sky isn't falling -- and the new roof may in fact be stronger than their previous one. Maybe at least a few will question the union-fed lines they've owned as truth. That'd make my year. (That, and never ever again hearing a democrabeep.)
wv: prefal
In order figure out how the Federal Courts will rule on the Union Lawsuit, I think you only need go as far as how the Federal Government treats its various unions, e.g.
1. allows some groups to unionize, but not others
2. allows some unions to represent on work rules, but not others
3. allows some unions only to represent on grievances, but not work rules
4. Never collects dues
5. never alows bargaining on salaries or health benefits
so much for equal protection.
That means they were in communication with the majority on the court."
The fuck it does. You are recklessly alleging that's what it means, but you are doing so with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
Do you have any evidence that there were communications with the majority on the court, such as phone logs, billing records, testimony? Anything?
Someone writing an email indicating they're sure something will happen in the future is generally regarded as an expression of hope. Not concrete evidence of illegal judicial collusion.
You're deluded, Garage.
It's meaningless to attach any other significance to this unless you have actual evidence. And you don't.
You're grasping at metaphors and stinking up the place with the stench of sweaty desperation.
You haven't answered my charge: Was this blog post written by the husband of a former Democrat Party Dane County supervisor?
Answer the question Garage. Stop avoiding the question and just answer it.
"The First Amendment protects us from compelled speech."
Any nearby law professor want to explain why Congress can compel testimony with a subpoena?
Chris Christie, in New Jersey, is a national treasure, now.
Speaking of Adolph Christie, yesterday I spent some time researching Hitler, Nazis, and unions, and I was surprised to read Hitler's support of unions in Mein Kampf. Y'all probably knew that already, but in case some didn't, I wanted to share.
Tom: IANAL, but you dont lose your 5th amendment rights--
How would legislators know when the court would rule? And is that proper?
That doesn't sound in the slightest bit improper to me. When I was a law clerk, the court frequently told people (parties, media, basically anyone who asked) when it expected to enter a ruling, assuming that it knew the answer.
Why would anyone expect that to be some big secret?
- Lyssa
"Any nearby law professor want to explain why Congress can compel testimony with a subpoena?"
Congress cannot compel testimony. They can only compel your appearance with a subpoena.
A subpoena is an order to appear. Not to testify.
Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false. People volunteer.
I know from first hand experience.
Lie much, Ann?
"They were "assured" the ruling would come down when it did. That means they were in communication with the majority on the court. How is that proper conduct for impartial Supreme Court justices?"
My betting service assured me the Packers would win the Super Bowl. They must have been in collusion with the NFL.
Unions are hiring people to go "door-to-door" to [politely] ask members who haven't signed up yet why they haven't.
It will be interesting when the stories of Union over reach and thuggery come out about the coercion of union dues from those who are reluctant to continue to pay.
Unions are famous for these tactics. So far, the collecting of dues has been painless and almost invisible, coming directly from pay checks before the worker gets paid. Similar to SS and Medicare and Income Taxes. You know you are paying but it is not quite as visible.
NOW the worker will have to "voluntarily" have the money deducted from their bank accounts AND have to account for that missing money in their checkbooks. People may become reluctant to continue to pay. When that happens the Union collectors will become more than a little persuasive.
"Why would anyone expect that to be some big secret?"
It isn't a secret. It's called a docket. Anyone who has ever had anything to do with a court knows this.
Garage is grasping at any string he can in abject desperation. I fear for his mental health.
The blog post he quoted was written by a reliable Democrat hack reporter who is also married to a Dane County Democrat Party politician - former supervisor.
The reporter - in a severe journalistic ethical lapse - did not disclose to his readers in the post that he is married to a Democrat Party politician with a stake in the outcome.
Unethical. But predictable bias in these news media these days.
"If you're in a recall district, steel yourself for paid union activists coming to your door. "
This is just completely, wholly false. It's a lie.
What's with you, Ann Althouse? How do you lie so casually?
The writers used the term "in-kind." If you don't know whatt that word is, maybe it would be smarter not to speak in ignorance.
"in-kind" means "labor or goods donated." And in this case, volunteers always donate their time.
Unions do not pay people to knock on doors. I don't know if you're being a liar or just a dumbass. Either way, it's appalling.
By the way GM, one can "assure" without having knowledge of a future.
assure: to declare earnestly to; inform or tell positively; state with confidence to: She assured us that everything would turn out all right.
Better double up on those EAASL classes....
AlphaLiberal said...
Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false. People volunteer.
I know from first hand experience.
Lie much, Ann?
They volunteer the same way Internal Revenue is based on voluntary compliance.
People undoubtedly get gas and eating money and the organizers get something.
EDutcher, I have been at the union offices volunteering and talking with other volunteers. I know that's false.
EDutcher:
People undoubtedly get gas and eating money and the organizers get something.
No. They don't. There is usually coffee pot, an assortment of coffee cake and kringles and that is all.
Dishonest much? You lying sack of shit.
Modern conservatives are so thouroughly deluded and dishonest.
You guys don't actually care if you lie, as long as you feel you have insulted your opponents. You are very immoral.
WHY DOESN'T THIS COMMANDMENT APPLY TO CONSERVATIVES? THEY SURE DON'T FOLLOW IT:
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor."
That means don't lie. Yet here we see yet another big lie.
You deserve no respect. Zero.
These are union "volunteers"? Give me a break. My congress critter is Adam Schiff--representing a gerrymandered Democrat district in the Northeast Los Angeles suburbs. Not complaining--in the districting in the 60's, 70's and 80's the district boundaries had been drawn to be a safe Republican seat; Carlos Moorhead GOP sat in Congress for 20 plus years.
But I digress: Adam Schiff scheduled a town hall meeting in August 2009 in the throes of Obamacare. The Tea Party "astro turfers" were a disorganized mob. Home made signs, and as many opinions as there were mob members.
The SEIU folks and the local city, county and Department of Water & Power union employees had professionally printed signs; color coordinated tee shirts, several community organizer types with bullhorns to guide things etc.
The tipoff was that virtually all of them left at the same time to get back on the buses that had brought them there. At 8:30 pm the "shift ended" and the union folks went home. They were off the clock and sure as heck weren't going to stick around.
The Tea Party mobsters hung around, talked with each other and drifted off in small groups to get in their cars and go home.
Garage and Alpha you can tell me that those SEIU demonstrators weren't getting paid--but I'm going to have to ask you when you say that, "Just what is it that you are smoking?" I don't want any of it but it must be some righeous stuff!
"I don't know if you're being a liar or just a dumbass. Either way, it's appalling."
Gee, last week when Democrat Anthony Weiner was lying, I didn't see you here discussing how appalling it was. Cat get your tongue?
What happened Alpha?
It occurs to me that the main reason the union keeps "fighting back!" even tho it can't win, is that the union no longer has automatic dues deduction from its serfs...members.
Lots of activity will encourage a check in the mail every month--they hope.
"Unions do not pay people to knock on doors."
Gee Alpha, you seem to have some pretty high-level inside knowledge of how the union is operating.
How did you come by that insider knowledge if you're just a regular old average American commenter, huh?
Tell us Alpha ... what evidence do you have, other than your say-so that the unions in Wisconsin are not paying protestors?
Because I'm having a hard time attaching any credibility to your say-so based on past postings.
It occurs to me that the main reason the union keeps "fighting back!" even tho it can't win, is that the union no longer has automatic dues deduction from its serfs...members.
BINGO!!
VW: lyinkint
No comment
Let's revisit Ann Althouse's mendacious idiocy:
1. The recall elections. The article mentions the "so-called in-kind work" which "gives union members the ability to go door-to-door lobbying to defeat Republican senators facing recall." Gives union members the ability...? You mean allows unions to pay people to do door-to-door work. If you're in a recall district, steel yourself for paid union activists coming to your door.
Who said anyone is getting paid to knock on doors, Ann? What proof do you have for this charge?
My Facebook page and emails are full of entreaties to volunteer. Volunteer. That means do work and not get paid.
Yesterday the shill Ann Althouse posted on global warming, denying decisions be made on "science."
Today she is fabricating accounts that unions are paying armies of workers to knock on doors. Based on what? Her misunderstanding of the word "in kind"?
That was a figure of speech, for God's sake! It means the opposite of what you claim it means.
Does your integrity mean nothing to you, Ann?
AlphaLiberal Claimed With No Evidence: "Unions do not pay people to knock on doors."
Here's a list of hundreds of union jobs knocking on doors.
In other words, Alpha never did it and was never part of it. He just took the union propaganda at face value.
Gullible much?
Apparently.
The linchpin of union power is forced taking of dues. Without that, they will wither. When union members taste freedom, they will have little concern for their captors' needs.
Next: eliminate forced extraction of income tax from people's pay.
Nevadabob:
Because I know what I am talking about, unlike the casual liar Ann Althouse:
a) I have volunteered on union-led campaign efforts for decades.
b) I have numerous messages of various sorts inviting me to volunteer. (Note: volunteer means no money is involved).
c) I have been one of those people at the doors and I will be one again soon.
d) I live here. I know people are motivated to volunteer.
Now you guys are all claiming the volunteers are paid. What do you base your charge on?
Edutcher, were is your proof for the allegation that the volunteers are actually paid?
You have no proof. You don't care for the proof, you don't care how much you lie about people you don't like.
Are you one of those Christians who wants the 10 Commandments in public buildings? Even when you so often violate the Ninth, yourself?
Nevadabob lies poorly:
Here's a list of hundreds of union jobs knocking on doors.
a) Not one of those jobs is in Wisconsin.
b) Those jobs are not electoral of the sort you allege. A "Organizer" in a union is someone who organizes new workplaces. Or other events. They are the staff.
c) You got nothing.
"Does your integrity mean nothing to you, Ann?"
Where were you last week when Anthony Weiner was lying Alpha? You seem OK with lying as long as Democrats are doing the lying. It didn't upset you enough to post when the Democrats were lying.
Does your integrity mean nothing to you, Alpha?
See look dude, if you only show up to bitch when you're ox is getting gored, then you don't really have any credibility when you start whinging.
Democrats and thug-filled quasi-mafia unions are paying people to go door-to-door. They're doing it by laundering that activity through ostensibly non-profit organizations. It's transparent what they're doing and people aren't fooled by it.
So go away, little man.
Obviously, Obama is purposely tanking the US economy so that Wisconsin can't recover even with sound state policies.
That wins WI for Dems in the future.
It's all a very cunning plan.
Conservatives are such liars. Such shameless liars.
Lying is immoral, people. It doesn't matter how much you hate people, lying about them is not okay.
You have no integrity.
Wow. Hit a nerve on Alpha and paid union activities. Highly entertaining.
Just because you personally didn't get paid doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Perhaps you need to negotiate better terms for yourself.
Don't get smacked around. Vote for Olson.
I need some bumper stickers.
Nevadabob:
I have been commenting here for years. I choose not to so much these days because Ann Althouse has become so stridently right wing. And such a liar.
Democrats and thug-filled quasi-mafia unions are paying people to go door-to-door.
Again, another baseless charge. And a lie you don't bother to back up.
Volunteer this weekend in Recall Elections
Go ahead and Google "Volunteer" and "Recall election," oh mendacious dispshits.
Here's hundreds more "activist" jobs. There's thousands of them, all union-paid and laundered through third-party arms-length "non-profit" 527 groups paid for by Democrats and the unions.
I post links to actual jobs being filled for door-knocking activists.
AlphaLiberal posts his claims and asks us to take his word for it.
This word "credibility" ... Alpha I don't think it means what you think it means.
Now you guys are all claiming the volunteers are paid. What do you base your charge on
It's pure projection, when in fact we know out of state recall petitioners were paid. 32% of the signatures collected were found fraudulent in Holperin's district. When a winger is accusing you of something you can be sure they're already do it.
Here's hundreds more "door-knocking" activist jobs paid for with union dues laundered through third-party 527 political organizations.
DBQ, show your proof.
You can't. Because the charge you make is a lie. That doesn't bother you.
I'm upset not so much at the charge, itself. I'm upset because people lie so easily and so casually. There is no reasoning with you people. You just make up the worst about your enemies.
And that's the M.O. of the entire Republican Party. Our country is truly, deeply fucked with such pathologies running amuck.
And that is distressing. Conservatives today hate liberals more than they hate any foreign enemy. They will say any lie or fabricate any falsehood.
Reason is lost on you.
Labor historian Fred Siegel offers further reasons why unions are manning the barricades. Mr. Walker would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. In addition, he would end the government’s practice of automatically deducting union dues from employee paychecks. For Wisconsin teachers, union dues total between $700 and $1,000 a year.
“Ending dues deductions breaks the political cycle in which government collects dues, gives them to the unions, who then use the dues to back their favorite candidates and also lobby for bigger government and more pay and benefits,”
THIS is the real issue. In other areas where the government stopped automatically collecting dues the payment of dues dropped by 30 to 40%.
We are talking a lot of money at stake. The Unions are not about to let their cash cows (teachers and other public workers) off of the reservation.
Nevadabob, I know about those jobs. They existed before the recall elections. They are not related to the recall elections.
Again, you are not answering the question. Show the jobs for getting paid working on knocking on doors FOR RECALL ELECTIONS.
Like I said, REASON is lost on a modern conservative. The ironic thing is that you guys remind of the various hardline commies I used to deal with in the early 1980s. Beyond reason.
"Capital simply refuses to share the wealth, so to speak, and with modern technologies can move around the world at will to find the absolute cheapest labor it can find in order to maximize its profit margins.
"
So assume you use your capital to employ the least efficient technology available, and always look for the highest prices you can pay.
Your employees would be worse of than slaves, not even able to support their own survival.
Fucking liars.
The Democrats are upping the ante so the Republicans need to respond. Make the state Right-to-work, and free employers of the responsibility of collecting union dues. Employers should only be responsible for collecting payroll taxes, deductions for health insurance premiums and retirement contributions.
That can be done with a smaller quorum, as it wouldn't be part of a budget bill.
garage mahal wrote:
You mean like hack judges on the Supreme Court that colluded with Republicans in this state, Althouse?
Wow. You surely destroyed Althouse with that searingly incisive argument. Not since Godzilla whupped Meca-Godzilla's beryllium ass has there been a more decisive rhetorical body blow. Wow.
The garage mahal ultimatum
AlphaLiberal said...
Edutcher, were is your proof for the allegation that the volunteers are actually paid?
You have no proof. You don't care for the proof, you don't care how much you lie about people you don't like.
Are you one of those Christians who wants the 10 Commandments in public buildings? Even when you so often violate the Ninth, yourself?
Alpha comes here on a regular basis with his talking points already predigested from Kos and firedoglake and expects us to take him at his word when he is so often proven wrong.
He has no knowledge himself (he admits it) of how the unions canvass. The idea they might use professionals is, of course, unheard of.
The AFL was in my neighborhood, canvassing out of a station wagon. Given the height of gas prices, thanks to Little Zero, it's reasonable to expect someone got a couple of bucks to drive around.
Alpha, when cornered, of course, goes all ad hominem. For someone who violates the Commandment on bearing false witness on a regular basis, he is the last one to point fingers.
Unions. Schmoon-yens. The biggest threat is the change to the law that the state doesn't deduct union dues.
Then what?
I dunno.
But it seems to me if you give teachers in Wisconsin a choice. Where they get their paychecks WITH extra. And, it's up to individuals to pay the union ...
I think you'll hear a lot of "the check is in the mail."
On the other hand, unions can press congress critters (in both parties), to pass a national law where credit cards automatically deduct monthly dues "for you know who." Lest we dare speak the name out loud.
It's a money machine designed to go into politicians' pockets. Because there's been this advantage ... that you can rig election results with dirty tricks.
Nixon wrote the book.
And, then when the press turned on him, he had to resign.
So far though, the press is only losing subscribers and viewers. You could say you see this is done because of "choice."
What needs to be done is to watch and see if there's any voter fall-off. You know. People stay at home rather than vote. Voting doesn't appeal to them.
The democraps take advantage of this because they can drum up dead people. Who then fill out ballots. And, drop them into boxes. To be opened when necessary.
It's a good sign that lots of people are staying interested.
Heck, that's the message that went to Karl Rove, when he kicked out the Tea Party people from republican politics, one day after last November's big republican win.
Big turnouts scare union thugs, and Karl Rove.
AlphaLiberal ... why don't you tell us how much Wisconsin taxpayers pay you as a Teaching Assistant?
What is the value of your total benefits package?
Don't you think it's fair for you to fully disclose your ties to taxpayer dollars?
That there r articles in papers saying the unions hire for this type of stuff & don't pay union wages suggest a pattern.
"(Note: volunteer means no money is involved). "
We want you to work bitching about people not being paid enough so that we can skim more off, and we want you to do it for free.
Thanks unions. Message received.
When paid union organizers show up at your door, serenade them:
From the film 'Tom Jones' (Henry Fielding)...
Tom Jones: [Drunkenly proceeds to taunt Mr. Thwackum with a mocking song] Sing, Thick Thwackum, thy bounty has flown. You lost all the money you thought that you'd own.
"Nevadabob, I know about those jobs. They existed before the recall elections. They are not related to the recall elections. "
Oh, so when you wrote that there are no union jobs for activists door-knocking you knew that was a lie and now you're trying to walk that back and claim that well ... those aren't the jobs for the recall election.
I see.
OK.
So you can assure us readers that there is not one person being paid to work by unions in these recall elections?
Answer the question carefully, Alpha.
I'll withhold my further comments until after you commit yourself to a position that doesn't change when new facts are put into evidence.
"What will the unions do now?"
You forgot about option 3: Strike!
They don't have to worry about winning elections so much as how to make life so miserable that peolpe will give in.
Carol: do tell us about Nixon rigging elections. That's new one I haven't heard. I've heard about Kennedy in 1960. I've heard about LBJ taking aides through a cemetery to collect names of voters. When one aide skipped a particular headstone, LBJ objected. He told the aide that that person had as much right to vote as anybody else in that cemetery. So tell us about it. Is this story as good as Franken's work in Minnesota?
@ Alpha
Here
Here
And Here
Maybe YOU volunteer but others are getting paid. I think this makes you a schmuck.
Folks like Robert Cook like to claim that unions created the middle class, but is that really true?
Henry Ford doubled employee wages in his non-union auto plant so his employees would be able to buy the cars they built, not because of union demands.
The Roosevelt administration passed the 40 hour work week in an attempt to boost employment during the great depression, not because of union demands.
Companies started offering pre-paid benefits like healthcare due to wartime wage and price controls and continued them after the war because of favorable tax treatment, not because of union demands.
To claim that unions single-handedly created the middle class seems a bit simplistic.
The larger question, of course, is why aren't the unions paying people who work for them?
The unions have plenty of money available - millions and millions and millions annually in forced dues collection. Why are the unions depanding that people work for them for free?
Why are they depending on slave labor?
I thought they fought for the "working" man? Not the "volunteering" man.
Where's all those millions in dues being spent? What happened to that fat, fat money?
Washington Post: Union hires non-union homeless to fake protests
Are the journalists at the Washington Post a bunch of fucking liars, AlphaLiberal?
What say you? Dude, you're fading. Speak the fuck up.
You claim unions aren't hiring door-knockers and aren't faking protests. And you want us to take your word for it but the Washington Post says they are.
Who's lying here, Alpha?
AlphaLiberal must have income source (union dues from other poor schmucks) threatened.
Hysterical.
Quaestor,
Thanks for sending me on a side trip through Pee Wee Herman videos. He really had that character down.
Another powerful career destroyed by allowing your wiener to upstage. This is why God invented pants.
I should mention that Alpha never heard of the AFL's permanent canvassing offices or consulting outfits like the Warshaw Group who certainly work for free.
I'm upset not so much at the charge, itself. I'm upset because people lie so easily and so casually. There is no reasoning with you people. You just make up the worst about your enemies.
Leaving climate science out of it.
I heard tiny little feet running away, and a faint sniffling.
FoxNews: Homeless bums hired by union to fake protest - paid minimum wage, no benefits. Watch how they get busted.
Alpha, let's just start with your very poor manners and lack of civility towards the host of this blog. Debate and disagree all you like, keep the Alinsky name calling and ridicule for your union activities. Then again, maybe your writings here are union activities for which you are being paid.
As an instructor and union member myself, I know also of the calls to volunteer...on your employers time and at the employers expense. I also know of SEIU hiring day workers to demonstrate for them at far below the prevailing wage of the union members and without benefits. There is extensive video available of these activities. I also receive the national newsletters that discuss the use of union dues to pay for demonstrators to be bussed in to areas like WI, OH, etc. Your outrage at Ms Althouse comments is intellectually dishonest. A bit like claiming high ground on diversity while assisinating the character of anyone that disagrees...and this is especially noticeable within the unions. (See video of union member noting mishandling of union members votes and union organizers forcing her out of the room). Try demand for an open vote thru card check, while using a secret ballot within the union.
It does not work to claim the high ground with poop on your hands from throwing it anyone in the way of your climb to said ground.
AlphaLiberal said.."in-kind" means "labor or goods donated." And in this case, volunteers always donate their time.
Alpha, google the term "in-kind." Being paid in-kind means to be paid in some way other than cash. (By the way, it's one means of avoiding taxes.)
AlphaLiberal said..The writers used the term "in-kind." If you don't know whatt (sic) that word is, maybe it would be smarter not to speak in ignorance.
Don't you think, Alpha, if only for the sake of regaining some of your high self-regard, you owe the professor an apology?
Folks like Robert Cook like to claim that unions created the middle class
Nike in Viet Nam suggests he's incorrect.
"I heard tiny little feet running away, and a faint sniffling."
And amid the strained satin the tell-tale odor of a greased queef.
George Mahal:
It's pure projection, when in fact we know out of state recall petitioners were paid. 32% of the signatures collected were found fraudulent in Holperin's district. When a winger is accusing you of something you can be sure they're already do it.
I disagree, in this case only. I don't think most of these people know the RPW was hiring out of charlatans to collect signatures, a finding of fact from the GAB.
No, it seems more likely that modern conservatives don't mind lying one bit if it means they get to insult, demean, or negatively portray Democrats, liberals, progressives.
Why they don't mind lying is the big question. Is it because they are so arrogant? Or because they are so blinded by their hatred? Or is it just tribal and, if their tribe lies, they will right along with the lie?
It's bad, whyever it is. And bad for the country. Shame on the cons. And a pox on Ann Althouse.
Why they don't mind lying is the big question. Is it because they are so arrogant? Or because they are so blinded by their hatred? Or is it just tribal and, if their tribe lies, they will right along with the lie?
Please point out which part of the statement "Unions hire paid activists" is a lie.
Given the numerous links and videos that have been shown, you are either brain dead or a liar yourself. Probably both.
"All we get at the door is Jehovah's Witnesses."
How does that conversation go?
"I think you'll hear a lot of "the check is in the mail."
And there is a good reason for this. Giving union members your bank account information is extremely unsafe.
Union websites are not secure and hackers can easily get into their computer systems and steal your bank account information and empty your bank account.
Unions don't hire good IT staff. Their networks are notoriously insecure. You'd be a fool to give any union access to your bank account.
Your bank will not reimburse you for money stolen from your bank account as a result of hackers getting into union computers and stealing your PIN and bank account numbers.
Courts are ruling that you shouldn't have ever given out that information.
So if you are a teacher or teacher's assistant approached by a union thug and they try to coerce you into giving them your personal bank account information, for God's sake don't do it.
Meade:
Alpha, google the term "in-kind." Being paid in-kind means to be paid in some way other than cash. (By the way, it's one means of avoiding taxes.)
I don't have to google "in kind." I know what it means.
Have you ever entered campaign contributions, Meade? There is a whole category for "in kind" contributions.
That does not mean the campaign is paying something. It means the opposite.
And, in this case the "in kind" statement from the article referred to all that volunteer labor for the campaign to restore collective bargaining rights to public employees.
The contribution flows from the volunteer to the campaign (union).
You're so eager to find something negative about the people you hate so much that you and Ann are making some very bad judgments.
To be fair this writer seems to be confused, as well. They are trying to say that an asset for the campaigns is all this volunteer labor.
Well, I'm going to see my father.
Ed, what did you and your neighbors think of their canvassing technique?
CB Denver. That story, re: paying workers enough to buy the car, seems a bit apocryphal; such a nice teddy bear, Henry Ford. That's why his picture hung in Hitler's party office in the years before he became chancellor, that and the fact that Henry supported the Nazi party. Auto assembly line work is probably not too bad for the first 15 minutes; but how about the seventh hour of repetitive motion on your fourth day of the week, maybe a little different. The boss only wants so much turnover.
DBQ, see Ann Althouse's claims in Point 1 of this post.
There is nothing to substantiate this and the lame efforts so far have pointed to unrelated, pre-existing jobs as "proof."
"No, it seems more likely that modern conservatives don't mind lying one bit if it means they get to insult, demean, or negatively portray Democrats, liberals, progressives."
AlphaLiberal we are LINKING you to the Washington Post ... hardly the last bastion of conservative liars in the world.
We aren't asking you to take our word for anything. We are linking you to reliable news sources and you are just blind to the fact that it has become common practice for unions to hire non-union paid protestors to fake grass-roots protests and do organizing.
I mean, we're LINKING you to it and you STILL are trying to claim we're all a bunch of fucking liars.
Don't you realize how desperate and pathetic that makes you look? Doesn't your credibility mean anything to you?
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you refuse to acknowledge the many, many links to many,many completely credible news sources demonstrating that this is going on?
Do you think people won't click the links? Do you think they're not forming opinions about your credibility once they realize you're lying to them by clicking these links?
These aren't links to web extremists. They're fucking links to well-respected by Democrat media organizations depicting time and again efforts by unions to fake protests and whatnot.
What's wrong with you man? Have you no eyes? Do you really think you can still tell the Big Lie enough times and eventually people will believe it?
That's not possible any more. Now, we can link people to other sources and they can make informed judgements about those make allegations but refuse to provide any evidence and who ask us to take their word for it.
That's weak, dude.
Wake up to the New Citizen Meadia.
Alpha,
The "in kind" reference in the article that Prof. Althouse links to is not at all clear, but what is clear is that you don't understand the normal usage of "in kind."
The term refers to an exchange of goods or services which are subsequently given a monetary value. The transaction might be a donation. I might give my church a used car valued at $500 that I can then deduct from my taxes. It might be a barter. I might work a picket line in exchange for a deduction of my union dues.
The use of the term "in kind" suggests and exchange that has a monetary value. Certainly there are millions of Americans who make donations that have an "in kind" value who never cash the check, so to speak. For example, when I drop stuff off at Goodwill, I rarely see anyone get the tax deductible receipt, although President Clinton did deduct his old underwear so it happens. Regardless, the article implies that union members could exchange their labor "in kind." Perhaps, the reporter is wrong. Maybe not.
So stop ranting already. It's Father's Day for Crissakes.
You still haven't answered my question, Alpha:
Will you state unequivocally that no union money is being paid by anyone with respect to these recall elections?
Answer the question.
I'll withhold any further introduction of evidence until you commit yourself on this question.
DBQ, see Ann Althouse's claims in Point 1 of this post.
There is nothing to substantiate this and the lame efforts so far have pointed to unrelated, pre-existing jobs as "proof."
Brain dead then.
So Alpha Liberal did not get paid by his union for going door to door.
He seems to think it proves something and it does.
It proves he is a chump.
But we already knew that, didn't we?
John henry
BTW, according to Althouse, Rs are opposing health care reform before it can be implemented because they don't want us to see how good it is when it's up and running
LOLOLOL
We already know "how good it is."
See any anglosphere country's history who has it, factor in the US taxpayer undergirding it all for 6 decades
Then look at their military.
...However the MacIver News Service has obtained a recruitment advertisement which solicited applicants from the Washington, DC area for the positions of “Field Organizers” for the Wisconsin Recalls.
The ad, for the Madison-based “Wisconsin Progress ” organization, was listed on the website of The Brad Traverse Group.
The Traverse site, operated out of Falls Church, Va, bills itself as “the leading resource for anyone seeking a job on Capitol Hill and off the Hill in the fields of government affairs, public affairs and communications.”
Although Tate asserted the recalls were organic and outside interests from Madison and Washington, DC were merely assisting with the efforts, the Wisconsin Progress advertisement says the duties for the positions include, but are not limited to: “Execute a field operation in a targeted state senate district–Manage a volunteer effort to collect recall signatures–Operate and Manage phonebank–Implement mass canvassing operations–Outreach to other progressive organizations to recruit volunteers–Data Management....”
Hmmm, MMGW crashing
Unions crashing
Soros thinks China's crashing
Greece will cause Germany to crash.
Oh, yes, exciting times R here!
AlphaLib said, There is no reasoning with you people. You just make up the worst about your enemies.
You mean, like calling someone a "liar" in every factual dispute?
As for "reasoning," your first-hand knowledge of union activity is sufficient to disprove the claim that unions use only paid political agents, but it in no way proves your claim that unions never use paid agents. This is pretty basic logic, which someone who claims the high ground of "reason" ought to be aware of.
People who deploy illogical arguments and attribute all factual disagreements to mendacity--that is to say, people like you, Alpha--contribute mightily to the prevalence of partisan rants and ludicrous personal attacks on this blog, on the talking-heads shows, and elsewhere in the political arena. If you've got a good argument, then please make it. Otherwise, denying us all the benefit of your presence here isn't much of a sanction.
Dipshit, the “Field Organizers” are the ones back at the office brewing the coffee, coordinating volunteers, etc.
That is not what Ann Althouse falsely alleges here. That there are all these people knocking on doors just because they are getting paid to.
But her hubby tries to explain that all these people are being paid in-kind somehow. With what, if not money? Stationary?
And, so what? So some kid is getting paid diddly squat to work out a borrowed office in Green Bay or something.
I guess you guys can't arguments on the merits so you have to make stuff up. Anything, so long as you think it harms the people you hate.
Again, you are not answering the question. Show the jobs for getting paid working on knocking on doors FOR RECALL ELECTIONS.
I live here (Madison), too. In the spring, I was offered a paid job ($12/hour) to go door-to-door and collect signatures to recall Republican state senators.
"You mean, like calling someone a "liar" in every factual dispute?"
I absolutely do not call people liars in every case. When it is deserved, I do not hesitate.
If it seems I frequently call conservatives "liars" the reason is that conservatives are frequently "liars," more than ever.
It is deserved here. The people knocking on doors for the recalls are volunteers doing it not for the money but for their beliefs.
By saying they are only doing it for the money it is an ad hominem attack on them that dodges actually discussing the issues.
Liars and haters, I should add.
Working America:
"Job Opportunities
There has never been a more important time to work with the labor movement.
Across the country, working families are under attack. Overzealous politicians blame middle-class public employees for their budget woes, corporate CEOs collect hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses while laying off workers and ripping communities apart, and Wall Street gambles with the retirement savings of workers everywhere. The only way to fight back is through strength in numbers-and with over 3 million members, Working America is on the front lines.
Join us, and you'll be joining one of the most sophisticated, professional field programs in the country. Our rapidly expanding program is hiring Field Managers and Canvass Organizers to work in cities across the country. Develop advocacy skills, get campaign experience and leadership training, and win on issues and elections."
Note - there is a link to jobs in Milwaukee Wisconsin
"So some kid is getting paid diddly squat to work out a borrowed office in Green Bay or something."
Doesn't that kid deserve a living wage?
But I digress. Does everyoen else nntice how AlphaLiberal simply refuses to answer a simple question. I'll try one more time, but I know he won't answer this question:
Will you unequivocally state that no union money is being used to pay people with respect to the recall elections?
Stop sidestepping and just answer the question. It's a simple question.
I absolutely do not call people liars in every case. When it is deserved, I do not hesitate.
Nothing wrong with that. But claiming that Althouse is lying in this case is to claim that you know that she knows the facts and is consciously misrepresenting them. Why is that your opening gambit, instead of simply presenting the facts as you know them?
AlphaLiberal: "Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false."
AFL-CIO Job: Canvass Organizer
"Learn organizing techniques from some of the best minds in the country, door-to-door, face-to-face opportunities to educate new Working America members and mobilize them to take action on some of the most crucial issues of our day: education, good jobs, a green economy and more! Enjoy opportunities for development and rapid advancement with Working America's field team!"
A Green economy and more!
Alpha's backtracking. My point was that union canvassers may sometimes be paid. Alpha said absolutely they weren't.
Ever.
Given his tendency to rush over here from Kos or firedoglake with the latest faux outrage, usually based on half-truth and mis-(if not dis)information, calling Conservatives liars and haters (how dare anyone question the ACLU's concept of an Establishment of Religion?) only shows how he, like most Leftist, projects.
dont 4get 2 give jhoffajr ur bank account # & pin lol
AlphaLiberal said.."Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false. People volunteer. I know from first hand experience. Lie much, Ann?"
I cannot fathom why you would speak to me in such an abusive way. Why would I choose deliberately to get something like that wrong? It sure wasn't clear in the Journal Sentinel article, which I was quoting and trying to understand.
You are a big partisan making an assertion with purported personal experience. Something one time happened to you, or so you say? That's not impressive. Prove it! Cite some reliable sources.
You call me a liar? That makes me suspicious of you. You sound like a big bully. I don't trust people who use intimidation like that.
I seriously want to know who's getting paid by the unions to do what. There's a lot of money sloshing around in there.
Where is the serious research on this point? I don't trust you at all, and the vehemence of your insults to me make you sound like you have something to hide.
You sound like Anthony Weiner saying his site was hacked. That's the righteous indignation performed by someone trying to get people not to keep looking.
I call your bluff.
"The people knocking on doors for the recalls are volunteers doing it not for the money but for their beliefs. Saying they are only doing it for the money it is an ad hominem attack on them that dodges actually discussing the issues."
We are discussing the issues. One of the issues is out-of-state door-to-door canvassers being paid by unions to harass people in their homes.
That's an issue. And we're going to discuss it.
You've advanced the argument that unions do not pay people to go door-to-door and you've been shown by many people here to have lied when you said that.
Will you at least admit that you lied when you said, and I quote: "Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false."
Will you at least admit that, AlphaLiberal?
"Where is the serious research on this point? I don't trust you at all, and the vehemence of your insults to me make you sound like you have something to hide."
What he's hiding is that he is a union representative in the TA union.
He won't admit that because it then undercuts his credibility.
happy fathers day all--and even to alpha liberal--too nice a day to spend spewing bile
claiming to be LDS also works
Except how would you do that, without actually talking to them? The thing about Catholicism is that you can indicate such with some sort of idolatry, a cross with Jesus, etc. Put up a statue of Jesus with Mary, and it is all over.
But, being, or pretending to be, LDS would be great fun there, as they are also expected to proselytize.
Actual testimony from a paid Madison union canvasser:
Joanna: "I live here (Madison), too. In the spring, I was offered a paid job ($12/hour) to go door-to-door and collect signatures to recall Republican state senators.
What say you AlphaLiberal? Is Joanna lying? Commit. Call her out. Tell us she's a liar.
I've always found that liberals just don't get this internet thing. Here's something else I found today:
Wisconsin District Field Manager - DemocraticGain.org
".......In addition to your own canvassing, Field Managers play a crucial role in ensuring the success of the campaign by overseeing up to twelve paid canvassers and participating in staff development......."
Get it? The Field Manager (who gets paid - Salary: $120.00 daily) will "canvass" along with 12 "paid" canvassers.
Yes indeed, there will be some paid canvassers showing up at your door.
Bruce--you keep a copy of the book of mormon by your front door (available free of charge from Salt Lake City) the theological debates are almost as good as blogs!
BTW--enjoyed your comments about missoula on the VC blog--thanks
"You are a big partisan making an assertion with purported personal experience. "
Like Althouse an her newest Walker-plantitude, aka the 99.999999% stuff in her comment to garage.
Got awful quiet in here when Althouse pushed back, didn't it?
Hey, Ann ... you're a lawyer. Remind me: Is libel of the sort committed today by AlphaLiberal still an actionable tort?
Here's the Democrat Party front group that has been hired to shield Wisconsin unions from criticism for paying people to go door-to-door to undermine Republican state senators.
Hmmm ... nobody being paid, eh ALpha? Nobody going door-to-door eh, Alpha?
Democracy for America-Wisconsin Field Canvasser
Democracy for America (DFA) is a grassroots powerhouse working to change our country from the bottom-up and devoted to fighting back for working families in Wisconsin.
Field Canvassers are an integral part of our efforts, and a great way to join a worthwhile cause! This paid position involves going door-to-door throughout Wisconsin and mobilizing voters across the state to vote in the recall elections. You will serve as a positive representative of the progressive movement. This is an exciting way to join the fight for good jobs in Wisconsin and show our leaders that supporting working families and job creation are the real priorities for Wisconsinites! Field Canvassers are responsible for hitting nightly and weekly goals and report to the District Field Manager.
To apply, please email a resume and cover letter to field@democracyfuckingoveramerica.com with the subject line “Paid Canvasser”.
Well, well, well.
What's this?
Looks like an ad for a paid canvasser to go door-to-door to recall Wisconsin senators.
Alpha?
Are you there Alpha?
Somebody go find AlphaLiberal.
Fucking buffoon.
Unions....heh-
I still get a good chuckle over this one:
Union Bosses Outsource Hostility, Hiring Beneficiaries of Entrepreneur’s Charity to Protest Him
Basically, the Steel Workers union hired people from a homeless shelter to protest a company for not using union labor--a company that is a major contributor to the homeless shelter..
Link here
Gee, I wonder who is this Democracy For America outfit? Doing grassroots campaigns. Hiring out-of-staters to go to Wisconsin and harass people door-to-door for the recall election?
Well, well, well, lookie here.
Why, I'll be damned if that's not Democrat Presidential Candidate Howard Dean and his brother Jim Dean?
Democrats hiring paid protestors to go into Madison, Wisconsin?
I guess Ann Althouse wasn't lying after all and AlphaLiberal was the lying douchebag he's always been.
Ann's right ... when some people scream it's because you stepped on a nerve they didn't want you to step on.
Time to stomp, Ann.
Bruce--you keep a copy of the book of mormon by your front door (available free of charge from Salt Lake City) the theological debates are almost as good as blogs!
I think that what you need is a stack of them to pass out to anyone who comes by. That, I suspect, would be even scarier.
I say this facetiously. I have spent a lot of time around Mormons (the real ones, not the polygamists on the UT/AZ border), and while there is some small amount of pressure, there isn't a lot, at least for adults. Mostly, you only feel it if you become somewhat close to them.
That said, the pressure seems greater at times on teenagers. The county HS a mile from here has an LDS church right across the street. If they can't build an actual church across from the high schools, they will often build some sort of youth facility. A lot of the social life of LDS youth is spent at one or the other. The problem is peer pressure, if there is a significant percentage of LDS kids in a middle or high school. It can apparently be quite substantial.
NevedaBob, don't hold your breath waiting for a response from AlphaL - I suspect a genetic deficiency - his mother didn't understand that she could be a whore and get paid too. Or as they say, that ACORN didn't fall far from the tree.
alphalib said:
"DBQ, show your proof."
Love the name calling when you libs get all worked up, very professional
http://www.georgiagreenparty.org/GreenJobs/Wisconsin_Progress_Seeks_Field_Organizers_for_Recall_Effort
The unions say, at least in the cases of the police and firefighters, that was political payback for their support of Walker in the gubernatorial election.
It appears that this is a bit misleading (or, has been called quite misleading by some).
The problem is the assumption from this that all of the police and fire campaigned for the Republicans, Walker, and Prosser. The reality, apparently though, is that a somewhere between a distinct majority and most police and fire unions supported the Democrats.
So, while the statement to this effect in the complaint is technically true, it appears to be quite misleading.
Imagine courts striking down legislation on the ground that the political majority drew lines that seemed to favor its supporters!
Which is why this suit is not going anywhere in the long run. We are talking a political question here, and the court system (ignoring some outliers that get reversed) strive to not get involved in such.
The other thing that has to be kept in mind here is that this is an Equal Protection claim. But, Equal Protection only requires heightened scrutiny for suspect classes. Union membership is not a suspect class (and, in the long run, being such would likely hurt unions more than help them). Thus, the test is a rational basis test, and that is easy for a legislature to pass. (Ann, of course, is the expert here, and this is probably part of why she considers the case to be almost frivolous).
"NevedaBob, don't hold your breath waiting for a response from AlphaL - I suspect a genetic deficiency ..."
I know he won't come back to this thread because I fucking decimated him with actual evidence of unions funneling money through third-party Democrat 527s to pay out-of-state protestors to come into Madison to agitate against Republican state senators.
It's total Astro-turf.
Alpha's a douche-bag and always will be, but the good news is that he's kind of a dumbass. He makes statements that are just trivially easily shown to be complete falsehoods while at the same time attacking Ann as the liar.
I'm glad our enemies are this fucking stupid.
The unions donate to Howard Dean's 527. Howard Dean then takes a huge cut off the top for himself and his brother. He then sends minimum wage flunkies back into Wisconsin to harass people door-to-door for piss wages and no benefits.
It's quite the little kickback scheme these fucking mafioso got going. It's made Howard Dean a fucking millionaire.
Alpha won't be back. He's beaten, and he knows it.
Psychiatrist,
Ford doubled wages to $5/day in 1912 or so when his $2.50 wage was already above market rate. It is important to note also that the wage didn't stay at $5 very long. It continually increased.
It is also important to note that it was the minimum paid to any Ford employee. Many made more.
Ford claimed that it was the greatest cost cutting measure he ever implemented. He did it strictly to make more obscene profits. The same reason he continually lowered the price of a Model T from about $900 in 1910 to about $250 in 1927
As he increased wages, he provided more jobs which had less streesful physical components. He said he would never hire a man to do what a machine could. That to do so was inhuman and inefficient.
For more read his 1923 autobiography My Life and Work.
Toyota still today, 2011, runs their company on the principles laid out in the book. It has never, in 83 years, been out of print in Japan.
You are right about manufacturing jobs in general. I've spent 3-5 days a week for the past 35 years in manufacturing plants of all stripes. Most manufacturing jobs are pretty horrible. This is not because of the employer, it is simply the nature of the work. There is not much that can be done to improve them. The best that can be done is to eliminate them via automation. Obama's ATMs included. (Bank tellering is a pretty mind numbing job too)
John Henry
The 1st Amendment claim isn't any stronger. It is primarily predicated on freedom of association. But, this is exactly backwards. The government employees covered by the new law can still associate with whomever they wish. They can maintain their union membership if they wish. What they cannot do any more is force non-members to pay the equivalent of union dues. They cannot force automatic payroll deductions for those dues or their equivalent. And, they cannot force governments to deal with them on behalf of people who do not belong to the union and have no wish for the unions to represent them.
In short, the government workers have more, not less, freedom of association, as a result of this law, than they did before.
Ford claimed that it was the greatest cost cutting measure he ever implemented.
And, back then, it probably was. But mostly no longer for non-government unions, and clearly not the case for government employee unions. Rather, they tend to substantially drive costs up.
That would be fine with a private company union. The company either needs to find a way to compete against non-union companies, or go out of business.
When it comes to governments, the consequences of the unionization take a bit longer to manifest, because they take years to accrue. But, we are now seeing the fruits of government unionization, with a sizable number of states and local governments verging on bankruptcy or insolvency as a result of grossly overly generous pensions and benefits, along with somewhat generous salaries and wages.
AlphaLiberal said...”I don't have to google "in kind." I know what it means. __Have you ever entered campaign contributions, Meade? There is a whole category for "in kind" contributions. _That does not mean the campaign is paying something. It means the opposite…”
The JS article said “in-kind work.” Not “in-kind contributions.” What the workers give to the campaign is an in-kind contribution, a contribution in some form other than a money donation. Nobody has any trouble understanding that. My problem understanding the article is with “work,” not “in-kind.” The worker is doing something for the campaign rather than giving money. But is the worker paid for doing that work? Nothing about “in-kind” answers the question whether the worker is a volunteer or is paid. “In-kind” doesn’t refer to what the worker gets, but what the worker gives. The article uses the word “work,” but doesn’t say “volunteer work.” To me, the word “work” suggests work for pay. If it were 100% volunteer work, why didn’t the article say that. You think we should just know it’s not paid work. But when I see the word “work” unmodified. I assume that there is compensation. Let the JS assert that it’s unpaid if that’s true. It’s telling that it did not.
"Let the JS assert that it’s unpaid if that’s true. It’s telling that it did not."
Because it isn't true.
The unions are funneling money to Democrat 527 groups in Vermont and elsewhere, who are then busing in the paid canvassers from out of state.
The fact that their laundering this operation is beside the point. They're paying people and people are doing this work primarily because of the pay.
People need jobs and they'll do anything right now ... even unfortunately urging people to vote against Republicans.
They're hungry and desperate. It's just sick that Democrats are preying on people like this who are just down on their luck and starving because they can't find a real job in Barack Obama's America.
Conservatives are such liars. Such shameless liars.
Lying is immoral, people. It doesn't matter how much you hate people, lying about them is not okay.
You have no integrity.
Game on.
I think a Star of David, or Mezuzah would also deter Jehovah's Witnesses. Where I grew up, the Southern Baptists used to conduct a yearly religious census--door to door. Some of my friends enjoyed pranking them by pretending to be Jewish. This is a town that had almost no Jews.
Knowing nothing else, it's pretty stupid or dishonest to claim that people are never paid to do something. People are paid to do everything we have ever imagined doing.
Partisanship forces you to lie, and then to call people liars.
I have not read a decent liberal defense of anything here for months. What the hell happened. Are they spiking the kool-aid or what?
Come on guys, give us something that's a challenge. And please stop spouting collectivist "wisdom" that's been discredited for a couple generations now.
I know there are some good arguments from the left, but I'm not gonna do your work for you.
"I cannot fathom why you would speak to me in such an abusive way."
Because Alph is a lying sack of shit? Just guessing.
Unions do not pay people to knock on doors. I don't know if you're being a liar or just a dumbass. Either way, it's appalling.
This is a pretty serious rebuttal, I wonder what Althouse has to say.
BTW, isn't Ann used to AL's abusiveness? Doesn't she take it as SOP by the left and shrug it off?
The only word unions know, and indeed the only word they thought they needed to know was "more."
Turns out they need bigger vocabulary.
Althouse, can you bait some better liberals. We're getting the dregs here lately. I suspect it's because events during recent history have been kind of embarrassing for them. Maybe if the wingnuts here will just agree with them on everything for a few days. Compassion, people. Something has really spooked them back to safer ground.
What's wrong with unions paying people to canvass?
If you have a lot of money, or a lot of money at risk, you advertise.
The quality of the ads is what you might want to dress up.
The quality doesn't follow from sincerity or insincerity but from, say, intimidation or pandering.
AlphaLiberal -- Oh for god's sake you lazy fool. They publish freaking classifieds soliciting for them here in LA. At Adam Schiff's ObamaCare/Potemkin townhall the t-shirted union 'health workers' couldn't even read the placards they were waving.
Please, try a little harder. You're an emarrassment to the union work ethic.
You're an emarrassment to the union work ethic.
What work ethic?
What's wrong with unions paying people to canvass?
Nothing, as long as it is clearly CLEARLY disclosed that they are being paid and are not actual union members. Otherwise it is fake and lies.
Being paid to present a veiw, like a fake doctor on a television commercial, is a hell of a lot different than BEING a real doctor taking your own time to present a view that you PERSONALLY espouse.
Being a paid spokesperson is like being a paid sex worker or a whore. You pretend to enjoy the act, but you are really just there for the money. As long as the Johns understand this, there isn't a problem.
Please, try a little harder.
C'mon, mr. mcenroe, say what you're really thinking.
Alpha-liberal is a classic troll.
He shows up, carpet bombs the thread, then leaves.
Leaving everyone else with tendonitis trying to scroll down to the bottom of the endless comments of those compelled to refute his bullshit.
Nothing, as long as it is clearly CLEARLY disclosed that they are being paid and are not actual union members. Otherwise it is fake and lies.
I don't see why it matters.
People believe all sorts of things that it's stupid to believe, and everybody knows it. Sincerity doesn't rescue it. If anything it contributes to the problem.
"Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made."
Nothing, as long as it is clearly CLEARLY disclosed that they are being paid and are not actual union members. Otherwise it is fake and lies.
don't see why it matters.
So you are cool with Republicans hiring people to say that they are Democrats (or vice versa) and sending the pretenders out to protests, acting violent, vandalising property and creating bad public images for Democrats?
Why it matters is that people see a large crowd of demonstrators or Union picketers on strike and assume that the large crowd is motivated by their cause and has passion. People might be swayed to support the cause. Instead, it is just a bunch of bums and out of work people making a buck, while the real union members can't be bothered to waste their time in picketing.
It is a lie, paid for by union dues which are paid for by the taxpayers.
Want to stop the Jehovah's Witnesses from showing up at your place? Fly an American flag. Once I did that, they stopped showing up.
What will they do now? Hmmm. That's a toughie. How about cheat, lie, steal, and use any means to try and intimidate others?
You know, what they've always done.
Typically, Crack beats me to it.
This is a more enjoyable blog when I just skip over alphadouchebags bleatings and just read the beat downs from everyone else. If this was a boxing match the ref would have called 8 rounds ago.
Why it matters is that people see a large crowd of demonstrators or Union picketers on strike and assume that the large crowd is motivated by their cause and has passion. People might be swayed to support the cause. Instead, it is just a bunch of bums and out of work people making a buck, while the real union members can't be bothered to waste their time in picketing.
I assume they're motivated by their stupidity, but I'm not a soap opera woman that presumably the demonstration is ultimately aimed at, once removed.
That is, they need a demonstration that will interest the MSM to air it, and the MSM picks material based on whether soap opera women will tune away or not.
The MSM determines the official importance of events that way.
Sincerity is pretty far from mattering at that point.
In fact it didn't matter right at the beginning, though.
rh, I think your soap opera women analogy is dated. There are at least as many men as women who enjoy a story. The way political campaigns are run, the explosion of reality shows, sports; the unfolding narrative is where it's at.
The dozen or so protesters in Madison who were arrested for peeing on the palm trees around the Capitol were all being paid by the union.
Time and 1/2, since it was on a Sunday.
I live here (Madison), too. In the spring, I was offered a paid job ($12/hour) to go door-to-door and collect signatures to recall Republican state senators.
Game. Set. Match.
My sincere Father's Day condolences to AlphaLiberal, Sr. Better luck next time, sir.
AlphaLiberal Whined: "Lying is immoral, people. It doesn't matter how much you hate people, lying about them is not okay."
It's amazing how animated AlphaLiberal was earlier today, but how quiet he was about the immorality of lying last week when Democrat Anthony Weiner was holding press conference after press conference after press conference and telling lie after lie after lie.
Where was AlphaLiberal? Nowhere to be found.
And now that he has been exposed today as the shameless liar of this post, AlphaLiberal just completely absents himself from the discussion. He's gone to ground. Hiding.
Bookmark this post folks, because he'll be back. May not be tomorrow, may not be the next day, but he'll be back to lecture us about how honest he is and how immoral we are.
So bookmark this post. You'll want to refer him back to it next time he shows up to make his false accusations.
Man has absolutely zero credibility.
It's amazing how animated AlphaLiberal was earlier today, but how quiet he was about the immorality of lying last week when Democrat Anthony Weiner was holding press conference after press conference after press conference and telling lie after lie after lie.
Ok I call bullshit on this.
#1 - Weiner was lying about his private sex life which was NOBODY's business.
#2 - Lying about union people's motivations is evil, because you're trying to take away their very livelihoods.
AlphaLiberal said, "No, it seems more likely that modern conservatives don't mind lying one bit if it means they get to insult, demean, or negatively portray Democrats, liberals, progressives."
No, conservatives don't need to do this, since the Lefties do this sort of thing well enough on their own. Conservatives can just sit back, enjoy the show and chuckle together.
#1 - Weiner was lying about his private sex life which was NOBODY's business.
#2 - Lying about union people's motivations is evil, because you're trying to take away their very livelihoods.
It was everyone's business because he had thrust himself out into the pubic spotlight as a spokesperson for the Democratic party, presumably as a step in gaining additional political power, by, for example, running for mayor of NYC.
Furthermore, there is some evidence that he was using at least token public resources for his antics.
And, we should probably point out that liberals and Democrats sure think that it is the public's business when it comes to the foibles of a Republican. For example, I am thinking of one former Republican Senator who lost his Senate seat for one instance of allegedly playing footsie with the guy in the next stall. At lest with Weiner, there was some evidence that some of his victims were minors at the time.
As for taking away the union members' livelihood, that really does not pass the laugh test. Unless, you are talking about the union bosses and employees who may ultimately lose their jobs as a result of greatly reduced union dues.
Potential long term reduction in retirement benefits, maybe. Sorry, but there should be some shared sacrifice here, and there weren't really any coming from the government employee unions. Ditto with the potential for fewer or smaller increases in pay. But, again, WI needs some shared sacrifices.
#2 - Lying about union people's motivations is evil, because you're trying to take away their very livelihoods.
Oh, and at the bottom of all this, I don't think that anyone was lying about the union people's motivations. It has been clear from the first - their desire to financially benefit at the expense of the people of Wisconsin through the power of collective bargaining with complicit politicians.
What is in debate here is whether or not they were paid, or someone was paid, to protest.
My answer to that is that I am sure that AL is right to some extent, that all it took to get some union members out at the protests was coffee and pastries. But, there seems to be some evidence that some of the protesters were hired by the unions, for a lot less money than the union members earn per hour. And, others were likely hired by other liberal front organizations too.
So, from my point of view, we have had 100+ comments of both sides yelling liar, liar, when probably both were right. (And, yes, I think that AL routinely slants things, but he has been doing that for years here - nothing new, except to get Ann's ire up a bit this time).
Alpha Liberal:
"Unions do not pay people to go door-to-door. That is just false. People volunteer.
I know from first hand experience.
Lie much, Ann?"
You're right, people have to pay the unions to go door to door to be their puppets.
Unions are just a paid servitude scam where its members pay the boss(es) to be taken advantage of. Supposedly unions protect and care about their workers...BS. It's the public unions that put their own workers at risk for layoffs, because they don't compromise on crap in the grand scheme of things. They play a game of chicken with the state, assuming they will always win. And when the unions don't get their way, like in this case, they are worthless in saving the jobs that the workers pay them to protect.
It's like the Queen bee using the worker bees.
Mmmm...interesting...a recent TA union shirt at Madison had a beehive on it...how fitting.
I've noticed a bit of sniping and disagreement among the regulars here -- the right-wingers, the centrists, the libertarians, and the honest liberals (I think there are at least two of them). That's good, and healthy, and to be expected. Even people who are on the same side politically will have differences with one another, and it's fun to argue.
But it's odd ... No matter how offensive, or stupid, or insulting, or just plain factually incorrect the comments, I can't say that I've ever seen Alpha Liberal, garage mahal, shiloh, Montana Urban Legend & Co., J, Jeremy, or Jay Retread criticize one another. Not even to say, "Tone it down, you're being a jerk."
Is it a case of "No enemies on the left, comrades!"? Are some of them sock puppets? Or do they really all agree with one another?
Weiner's out there because it's a funny story, Republican or Democrat.
Predictable narrative takes second place to amusing.
Audience is everything.
Browndog wrote:
Alpha-liberal is a classic troll.
He shows up, carpet bombs the thread, then leaves.
They're called "seagull trolls" -- they swoop in, make a lot of noise, stir up some garbage, drop birdshit all over everything, and then fly away.
"#1 - Weiner was lying about his private sex life which was NOBODY's business."
Weiner was not lying about his private sex life. He was sexting pictures of his naked penis to people PUBLICLY.
Not private.
Public. On his public twitter feed. He was also doing it on OUR time, using OUR phone, from OUR congressional offices. All on the PUBLIC DIME.
Not private.
Public dime.
People's private lives are their own business, but once they cross the line and do things in public, or use public resources, it becomes a public matter and totally legitimate to discuss.
" ... they swoop in, make a lot of noise, stir up some garbage, drop birdshit all over everything, and then fly away."
While this is true, these types of threads are important because AlphaLiberal will be back next week with Democrat Party talking points and people need to be able to judge his credibility in context with other ludicrous claims he's made.
This thread demonstrates that AlphaLiberal has no editorial credibility. And so from that standpoint, it was important and will be pointed to next time he shows up to spread his scat all over the joint.
"I can't say that I've ever seen Alpha Liberal, garage mahal, shiloh, Montana Urban Legend & Co., J, Jeremy, or Jay Retread criticize one another. Not even to say, "Tone it down, you're being a jerk."
you've also never seen them admit that, this time, they were wrong.
No matter how many links we provide to them, they insist they're right. All plain sight evidence to the contrary.
They never admit they made a mistake. Or that new information caused them to re-assess their position.
That's why they have no credibility and that's why they are running jokes here. They're not here to learn, or to contribute. They're here to give us the liberal talking point they've been handed by someone smarter than they are.
Foot soldiers. Cannon fodder.
That's all they are.
"A ditch-digger with heavy equipment earning market wages earns a lot more than a ditch-digger with a shovel earning market wages."
Oh, oh, pick me, pick me!!
Um, because the guy on the backhoe gets a lot more done in a lot less time? :)
*Walks into the Althouse Salon and looks around.*
Something feels different.
Maybe the piano needs to be tuned up? Some of the notes tonight sound off key to me, and frankly, this sing-along is not up to our usual standards.
All in all, we have a pretty good mix of voices in here. Some on the higher register, some going for the base, and most of us just kinda belting out something in our untrained mid-register voices. Usually it ends up sounding pretty good!
It's a rare night that ALL of us don't have some fun, and learn something too.
Anyway, something just feels "wrong" tonight.
*Turns out the lights*
Less is more when commenting.
tits.
About the 10 Commandments.
A rabbi told me they're a tough list. If they were easy they wouldn't have been around all these thousands of years. People like rules.
On the other hand, when it comes to unions, especially the "show" in Madison, Wisconsin. The last thing on earth the unions, there, expected, was to lose!
Nancy Pelosi didn't expect to lose the Speaker's office, either!
LOSE is something that happens when you get overtaken by your opponent.
What is going on now? Well, the unions don't want to retreat. Because they want to be able to collect money.
So, now, people in Wisconsin districts that have recall elections coming ... are gonna go up to people's doors. And, door knock.
Gosh, if it was me ... I'd run to my garage and put my sprinklers on for a two minute test.
Oh, and politicians are dialing everyone from a list they have giving them phone numbers. They are knocking themselves out callig potential voters.
One of those calls showed up here.
Clarke, District 42, got to ask a woman who answered his call, "if she heard about the recall?"
Her answer was to say SUCH A CRIME. And, then she hung up the phone.
Dunno the rules if, when you go to vote, the "volunteers from the union" are outside ... and they slash tires.
Because how would they know this would work?
For the teachers, however, I can imagine the threats will be "you'll lose your job if we don't get paid, immediately."
"The check is in the mail" will probably lead to identified cars that get their tires slashed.
Americans have lots of experience with unions.
About the 10 Commandments.
A rabbi told me they're a tough list. If they were easy they wouldn't have been around all these thousands of years. People like rules.
Ah yes the fucking Bible again. I just wouldn't know what to do without the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If going door-to-door worked, real estate agents would do it.
As to Jehovah Witnesses, I just point to the Mazuzah on my my front door panel. And, I say I'm Jewish.
They're gone.
Until the recall elections come to pass, we don't know what will happen.
Can I guess what might happen?
If the democraps are losing ... they'll run around saying "bags have holes" and can't be counted "accurately." And, with "certitude."
The unions are like folk trying to recreate vaudeville.
"As to Jehovah Witnesses,.."
I know someone who was in the hot tub when they came by. She opened the door completely naked. They booked.
My guess is that being naked is a better Jehovah deterrent than Judaism.
But, it's probably a close call.
Bruce: that sounds like warm vomit. 'blah blah each side calling each other liars.' No. Alpha said no union protesters were paid. We were given multiple links to sites recruiting union protesters and door knockers and first hand testimony of someone offered $12 an hour to do so. AlphaLiberal was caught either lying or being deliberately ignorant, and disputing proof to the contrary. Don't whitewash this with sugar and say each are calling the other liars. That dishonors the truth. This isn't a matter of perspective, either.
The unions are recruiting people to protest and knock on doors.
Great lines from Young Frankenstein:
"Those are some knockers."
"Oh, thank you."
Alpha Liberal's trolling and drooling all over this thread is proof that ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever.
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