May 26, 2011

"Spectator removed from Wisconsin Senate gallery, purportedly for wiggling fingers and bouncing shoulders, during Voter ID debate."

Interesting video at the link. Watch it and tell me what you think.

If you think the finger-wiggling guy looks familiar, he appears in a New Media Meade video that I blogged here on March 23rd. He comes up to Meade at 1:49 in the first video. The second video is a 14-minute discussion with him in the rotunda. The discussion covers some of the free-speech issues that are shouted about in the finger-wiggling video.

ADDED: I just rewatched the old 14-minute video and thought this part was interesting:

He talks about refusing to do things the police asked him to do: "I was never arrested... I wasn't breaking the law enough for them to be able to...." Indeed, for whatever reason, the police were extremely tolerant of the protesters. Now, this young man who enjoyed that tolerance is surprised to find himself escorted out of the Senate gallery, and we see the belligerence the police encounter after all their tolerance. Or maybe that is the reason they were so tolerant. It creates a big scene when they are not. But how are they supposed to maintain order if people come to think they don't need to show respect for them?


Triangle Man said...

Beard and no moustache? Trouble.

windbag said...

Grow a pair, go to China and pull a stunt like that, then I'll respect you. Children playing their childish games. I'm glad he got a close up of what democracy looks like.

Joanna said...

"Have a seat. Do you guys have ID?"


chickenlittle said...

Beard and no moustache? Trouble.

That's called a Quaker Beard

So he's either got generations of pacifism behind him or else he really hasn't grown a pair yet and thus unable to complete the beard.

Original Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Comrade X said...

Kohl-Riggs. because it would be patriarchal to leave his mother's father's name out.

Chip S. said...

The cops seem to be the ones creating a disturbance, not the bearded guy.

FIrst they came for the unemployed dropouts hanging out at the Capitol, and I did nothing because I had a job and a diploma.

Chip S. said...

Beard and no moustache? Trouble.

You got a problem with Abraham Lincoln?

Brennan said...

I like the shirt defense.

Can he shave "free speech" into his beard? His hair? His chest hair?

Lincolntf said...

Seriously, what is in the 14 minute version that could possibly justify the 10 minutes I just watched.
Fucking Wisconsin, you let yourself accept the legitimacy of rule by thugs and idiots and now it's turning back on you.

Joanna said...

"I didn't go there planning to start anything," Kohl-Riggs says. "I really just wanted to hang out, but I wasn't going to compromise... I don't think I did anything wrong."

He just wanted to hang out... but he wasn't going to compromise? What the hell does that even mean?

If watching govt was the most important thing, why did he push the limits of what he could get away with? Reprimanded for jazz hands, he then tries shoulder bouncing. If that were merely reprimanded (instead of shut down), next it'd be leg kicks. What part of sitting quietly w/o disturbing people is hard to understand?

His actions remind me of when my sister would actively "not touch" me when we rode in the back seat of the car together.

I don't think the issue is making jazz hands or bouncing shoulders on their own. I think this kid was pushing boundaries, trying to figure out how much he could get away with. To me, that sounds like he was looking for a confrontation. I'm so happy the cops gave him what he wanted. I'd be even happier if the press hadn't covered it.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I had to show my id yesterday to buy two bottles of that 5 hour energy stuff and these losers are whining over voter ID?

Why is proving you are eligible to legally cast a vote a problem with leftists?

Bob Ellison said...

People authorized to maintain order must be granted sufficient leeway to get the job done. This incident isn't pretty, but it's not ugly either. As windbag said: childish games.

Lincolntf said...

Oh, I see now it's a different 14-minute clip of the guy. I have to take a break, but I must be entirely missing the point if the question is whether or not that was a ridiculous display of abuse of authority followed up by ham-handed and ill-considered police action.

Ann Althouse said...

"Seriously, what is in the 14 minute version that could possibly justify the 10 minutes I just watched."

Well, check the pinpointed part I just posted in the update here. But the point of the 14-minute video is that it's unedited raw footage, put up in the original post to document the conversation:

"Standing in the center of the rotunda, the 3 men converse/argue about freedom of speech. I've uploaded the 14-minute video separately and unedited. If you have the patience to watch that, it's funny to some extent, particularly because the young men are so fervent about their cause that they can't hear how bad some of the things they say are. They persist for a while, but they can't shake Meade and they can't answer the questions he asks. In the end, they walk away. And there's Meade standing alone in the center of the rotunda."

I thought it was interesting that the man, who followed Meade from the street into the rotunda, kept talking for so long and that Meade kept his patience and tried to have an intelligent conversation with them.

Chip S. said...

What about sarcastic rolling of the eyes? Will that get somebody's ass hauled out of the gallery, too?

I mean, really, what kind of society allows people to move their fingers or shoulders in the sacred presence of the legislature? Order must be preserved.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Watch it and tell me what you think.

I think these protest people need to get jobs.

We didn't see just what he was doing to cause the security people to remove him. All we have is his word for it, that he was just wiggling fingers and moving shoulders, not creating a disturbance ....and...frankly....I don't believe him.

Irene said...

He states that the guard thought finger wiggling, clost to the body, might be mistaken for "deaf clapping"?

I thought "deaf applause" consisted of hand waving. That's what we saw on the finale of Celebrity Apprentice (go to 18:31).

chickenlittle said...

Perhaps the late Ben Masel now has a nachfolger. Media attention will do that.

Lincolntf said...

I can't get the second vid to play (it just goes black).
Anyway, I would love to see a rationale for why this seemingly stupid but eminently passive "wiggler" was bodily hauled out of there without even a chance to state his case while the same institution let the freakin' zoo run wild when it served their P.R. purposes?

Joanna said...

He states that the guard thought finger wiggling, clost to the body, might be mistaken for "deaf clapping"?

I took that to mean that the wiggling fingers were wiggling at the ends of jazz hands, ala deaf clapping. I don't think this guy is the most reliable of narrators.

Like the time I hip-checked an annoying person in a very crowded, close space. "Hey, I just shifted my weight. Sure is crowded here, eh? [bats eyes]"

Lem said...

In the Meade video the protester says he does not comply with police requests when he thinks they are "unjustified".

From watching the removal video in the story it seems the protester miscalculated this time.. Once again he was asked.. this time not to do something.. and he probably deemed the request "unjustified".

This is why they call it "doubling down".

Irene said...

Joanna, that makes sense.

I think the guards needed only a
"nudge" of a reason to remove him. By now, they must be familiar with him.

Ann Althouse said...

"Perhaps the late Ben Masel now has a nachfolger. Media attention will do that."

As I watched the video, I thought how would Ben have handled this. Clearly, a lot better. You have to do things like this so that onlookers will sympathize with you, not think you're interfering with the legitimate efforts of the police.

chickenlittle said...

As I watched the video, I thought how would Ben have handled this. Clearly, a lot better.

Yes, but Ben Masel couldn't have been much older than this guy when he assaulted Scoop Jackson, which even he (Masel) admitted wasn't one of his better moments IIRC. So give him time.

In all those years though, did Masel ever manage to instigate some important legal precedent regarding free speech or did it all just add up to a hand-to-mouth paycheck?

BJM said...

But how are they supposed to maintain order if people come to think they don't need to show respect for them?

Barn, horse, open gate.

EDH said...

Chris wiggles his finger in Sapphire's face.

SAPPHIRE -- What are you doing?

CHRIS -- I'm not doing anything, this is just the way my body is and where my hand is. I'm in my own space, there's absolutely nothing illegal about it and
you can't do a thing about it.

SAPPHIRE -- Yes there is, I can slap your hand away.

CHRIS -- Okay that's assault and battery and now I can sue your ass.

TED -- Hey, come on you two, no cat fights in my classroom. Ah what's your name, son?

SAPPHIRE -- I am Sapphire.

TED -- Great name, very classy, I like that. And what's your name again?

CHRIS -- Ah, I am Sparkles.

Maguro said...

Sounds like someone needs to be tased, bro.

Uncle Frank said...

I was at the US Supreme Court one time, in 1979, and the rule was when you sit in the courtroom, both feet are to be on the floor. I didn't try jazz hands, but my guess is it's out of the question.

Seven Machos said...

Yeah, I really don't get this. When I worked for the public defender, the judge in my courtroom was a pretty typical Chicago judge. Very conscientious of spelling out rights and of process. Very in favor of plea bargains.

But, man, occasionally he'd just lose it based on some trivial thing people in the gallery did. He'd stop the proceedings and tear into people, threaten them with arrest for contempt of court, etc. And he always got what he wanted.

I'm pretty sure a legislature has the same prerogative for decorum and order in the chamber as a judge does.

traditionalguy said...

Maybe the Wisconsin Assembly guys need a watch dog to keep them honest. This doggie wagged his tail too fast. Do you suppose he could be hired to watch Professors grade tests? OVERSIGHT is a lost art.

TMink said...

What effete whining! Dude needs some replacement testosterone treatments or something.


john said...

In AZ, of course, we know how to deal with people who think they can exercise their rights anywhere they damn well please. Emphatically, permanently.

Wimpy WI police probably couldn't even carry 71 rounds.

Lincolntf said...

"Say No To Wigglers!
Smash That Window!
Law and Order!
Trash that Building!
Free Speech!
Drown them Out!"

The Madison lefties are as schizo as they are stupid.

edutcher said...

Could be the cops have resigned themselves to doing their jobs, having lost the war.

chickenlittle said...

Beard and no moustache? Trouble.

That's called a Quaker Beard

Also Amish.

When the Amish left Europe, it was fashionable among cavalrymen to have long mustaches. Since horse soldiers doubled as constabulary, they were a symbol of what the Amish opposed, so nothing is worn on the lip.

Revenant said...

Why does anyone go for the neck-beard look? Ick.

Class factotum said...

the rule was when you sit in the courtroom, both feet are to be on the floor.

We have much lower standards here. The rule for my city's courthouse (city of Wauwatosa) is that clothes must cover underwear.

Joanna said...

It's a dangerous after effect of the Our House mentality. The protesters got used to doing whatever the hell they wanted to do. When the rules went back to normal (okay, tighter than normal), they had lost respect for the governing body and the governing body's rules.

By which I mean, they don't respect that there IS a governing body, be it R or D, that makes rules that they have to follow. That's not what they want democracy to look like.

(To an extent, some of this is the fault of the establishment. After all, they allowed the Capitol occupation to occur. They allowed the rule-breakin. It's hard to maintain order when those in charge send mixed signals.)

Could be the cops have resigned themselves to doing their jobs, having lost the war.
If protests arise this summer, I will be very interested in what role the police play. I'm suspicious that this time they'll do their job, a hard pill for the protesters to swallow.

windbag said...



wv = propper...the sort of etiquette Mr. Wigglefinger can't muster.

Seven Machos said...

I bet summertime protests are not nearly as big.

So many of the undergrads from the Chicago suburbs and Colorado and what not who want to protest about Wisconsin state politics are back at their expansive homes for summer break, or perhaps off on an eco-expedition financed by the trust fund.

enicar333 said...

The young man is a product of the public fool system. Let's SEE what is going on in public schools:

"“Dear Jim Shaw,
My son attended a dance, winter formal, at Park High School, and was offended by the utter lack of decorum & atrocious music selection;

1. Far from FootLoose the song called GONORRHEA was played & sanctioned by your team. You need to wrest the control of our schools from the criminal & gang element & give it back to the administration & parents. This song & a plethora of others should never be played & paid for by taxpayers. As long as this continues you’ll have a hard time gaining any support. Show some spine & you’ll have support & backing from me & many others that you’ve lost. Please take the time to follow the link below & read what the lyrics are. If you don’t know what’s going on the worst students will be rewarded like crabs in a bucket pulling in the good students wanting to achieve greatness.

2. The students no longer dance & have no routine, training, or practiced movements. The idea is to gyrate on each-other to mimic a sex scene & they get three strikes & they’re out under your administration. This action should have a zero tolerance platform & allow students to dance appropriately. The music should also reflect the minority also instead of just catering to hip-hop, rap, and gangster life. We have Rock, Country, Christian & more while you now just play music for people who glorify; sexism, racism, drugs, violence, hate, and I could make this list long. We should regulate this music to end any of these horrible & demeaning traits that you perpetuate hopefully unknowingly. If you know about all this then you should resign TODAY!!!!!!".

The song, by the way, is XXX and full of the "N" Word. It is APPROVED fare for a school dance paid for by taxpayers. Given that this is the way High School students behave, I would have to say the behaviour of the Spectator was very respectful and should have been allowed.

Daleep said...

Can't tell what the wiggler actually did, but throughout I wanted the loud mouth to be tossed out on his ass, post haste.

chickenlittle said...

@edutcher: Thanks. Your historical insights are always interesting.

I wonder if Kohl-Riggs secretely despises Mayor Paul Soglin for his well established moustache for vestigial reasons you brought up.

ndspinelli said...

Looks like Barney "Meade" Fife is back on the beat.."Citizens arreeest, citizens arreeest!"

Seven Machos said...

Enicar -- Remember yesterday when you were here calling Jewish people retarded and incestuous? Remember that?

And today here you are rambling about these kids today and their dancing.

Are you an interesting sort of troll or are you a genuine nutball? Please elaborate.

Carol_Herman said...

It will take the courts a long time to rule. But the man's claims are legitimate. Wiggling fingers. And, moving his shoulders up and down didn't break the law.

The "sign on his shirt?" They're gonna have to qualify it with "impartiality." Which means they can carry you out of public meeting places if your polo shirt bears a logo.

Makes Governor Walker look stupid!

The police want this crap to fly onto Governor Walker's head!

The $263 ticket? It's a BARGAIN! You can't buy a viral video ... Let alone the ACLU clamping down, hard, on a citizen's loss of rights.

Today's Glenn Renolds, links to Volk (however he spells it.) On a case where a juror was thrown off a jury ... And, now? A decade later California got horse whipped by the 9th!

Why they had to give this guy this forum, I have no idea. Will the case now go to SUMI? You're in Madison!


And, why let the STUPID TUBBS department be in control of anything? On par with Dupnik. Stupid pander than can backfire, big time.

Lincolntf said...

" I wanted the loud mouth to be tossed out on his ass, post haste."

By all accounts your "loud-mouth" didn't say a single blessed word before he was hauled out. Imaginary crimes are amazingly popular in Madison, considering how many real ones go ignored.

VanderDouchen said...

It is extremely difficult to have respect for an institution when a vast amount of your time, toil, and soul has been spent disrespecting that institution.

When it has been positively reinforced that disrespect is how Democracy works, then disrespect is going to be how Democracy works. We are watching many dynamics in play here. These dynamics run the risk of becoming kenetic. The rule of unintended consequences is always a top five factor in ultimate outcomes.

"The cops are on our side! We love the cops! Everybody hug the Police. We love our public serveants! Quick, storm the mezzanine."

"Fucking pigs! Fuck you pig bastards! I have rights! Fuck you, Pig! I have rights! Get your hands off of me!"

WV: tenaphic:

Tenaphic D is playing at the Fox tonight.

Phil 3:14 said...

"I want to watch my government WORK!"

Unfortunately he was cut off before he could finish:

"Because I have no idea what work is!"

garage mahal said...

That's called a Quaker Beard

Best hazing haircut ever

Pogo said...

Madison seems all about random acts of policing.

Ya gots to know when anarchy is OK, and when it's forbidden.

Mebbe instead of rental biikes they could post the officail times for enforcement and free-for-all.

Pogo said...

THOSE aren't spirit fingers...

THESE are spirit fingers...

These are GOLD....

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