Althouse: "The Wisconsin State Legislature is considering a new proposal that would increase the difficulty of college students to register to vote..."

April 26, 2011

"The Wisconsin State Legislature is considering a new proposal that would increase the difficulty of college students to register to vote..."

"... by requiring them to present identification with an up-to-date address on it. The plan, which according to Republicans would curb voter fraud, has been raising eyebrows of young people all across the state. By voiding student IDs and other proofs of residence as a legitimate source of identification, the potential law would require constituents to obtain IDs through the local DMV. Not only would this law be costly for students, but it would need to be a yearly commitment. Students are a mobile group, as they continuously look for more reliable and economic places of living, a change on their ID cards would need to accompany the already-burdensome process of moving. A reliable Democratic vote, the student voting bloc would be reduced to those willing to change their ID cards repeatedly."

The Badger Herald reports.

117 comments:

garage mahal said...: Republican "voter fraud" claims are just people not voting for Republicans.; 4/26/11, 4:01 PM
rhhardin said...: That has to be a college paper.

The difficulty to register is not the nominalization of it's difficult to register.

An ex-gf who worked at a county disability office reported a pencil-written doctor's note that she had said was needed:

"Jimmy Brown is totally disable to work."

"You'll have to do better than that," she said.

This was long ago when benefits were harder to get.; 4/26/11, 4:02 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: "Students are a mobile group, as they continuously look for more reliable and economic places of living, a change on their ID cards would need to accompany the already-burdensome process of moving." Bullshit - they will stay, on average, in college for five years pissing away the family's money.

I remember seeing Chrissie Mathews doing his show at a college campus for a state election. He asked the throng who they supported? I would have asked a different question- show me an ID so I can weed out those who were not even eligible to vote in that state.; 4/26/11, 4:08 PM
Kevin said...: As a Wisconsin native who attended at UW System school, I usually tried to vote absentee.

I'm probably a rare creature on that, but I felt it was easier (and honest) to vote in my home precinct.; 4/26/11, 4:09 PM
Anonymous said...: What are they doing for a DL now, pray tell? If it is a license with their parents' address, be it in Wisconsin or out of state, then that's where they should be voting.; 4/26/11, 4:10 PM
MadisonMan said...: I'm curious how this might play in recall efforts. Does Dan Kapanke support it? Alberta Darling? (I think she's facing recall, but to tell the truth, I don't really pay attention to it).; 4/26/11, 4:10 PM
Anonymous said...: substantially affect students’ voting rights. ..The hundreds of out-of-state students, many of whom may already be legally able to drive, would need to join their fellow in-state students and pay $28 to acquire another ID, just for the sole purpose of voting

If they are out of state students, they shouldn't be voting in Wisconsin.; 4/26/11, 4:12 PM
Curious George said...: First, the law requires current address on DL, so they should already be doing that. Second, this is sheer stupidity:

"because the chances of a single person swinging an election are slim-to-none, a person would need to repeat the process of obtaining different student IDs many times in order to turn the tide of an election." Uh, or maybe, just maybe, thousands of students doing the process just once."

You know, like the 10,000+ overvotes in Dane County and Milwaukee?

All you have to do is look at the aprty that doesn't want any ID required, and have same day registration, to know who is the party of fraud.; 4/26/11, 4:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that a college student's legal address was where they went between semesters, not where they happen to live on (or slightly off) campus. So while most college students would be eligible to vote in their hometown/city via absentee ballot, they aren't eligible to vote where they go to school. A couple pretty good clues as to the student's legal residence are the address on their financial aid form and whether or not their parents claim them as tax dependents. At least that's the way it was when I was in college back in the stone age, a.k.a. the 1980s.; 4/26/11, 4:12 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: What's the issue here? Wisconsin DMVs are staffed by super-efficient and friendly unionized employees. The whole process will be a snap, those college kids won't have to burn more than 10 or 15 minutes getting their IDs.

Bwahahahahahaha.; 4/26/11, 4:13 PM
Unknown said...: Yes, God forbid, we ask for something official - and illegal if forged.

Like a driver's license.

Or a bir...

PS State-issued Non-driver IDs have the same legal weight as a driver's license.; 4/26/11, 4:14 PM
chickelit said...: Voting should be raised back to 21, except for military.

I wasted my first vote on Carter in '80. I'm glad I was overruled.; 4/26/11, 4:15 PM
KCFleming said...: Why are students from other states considered "Wisconsin residents" when they are here only temporarily?; 4/26/11, 4:15 PM
Lincolntf said...: So these brilliant young minds, being molded by what we've been told are the finest practitioners of the art of education, are presumed incapable of properly documenting their address for voting purposes? Shocking.
Here's an idea, treat electoral violations as seriously as they treat athletic violations. Players and coaches are routinely ousted for malfeasance, but those who use the Campus to subvert free and fair elections get nothing more than a memo suggesting corrections.

ID laws exist to prevent voter fraud, why oppose them?; 4/26/11, 4:18 PM
KCFleming said...: While maintaining the Prosser vote was fraudulent, Garage voices disdain for preventing voter fraud.

Less taste!
More filling!; 4/26/11, 4:18 PM
chickelit said...: OTOH, if more young people had the maturity of Tricia Willoughby, then maybe better ID would be enough.; 4/26/11, 4:18 PM
MadisonMan said...: There's a phrase for not being able to vote where you live.

Taxation without Representation

I think the UW should just add a(nother) student fee that gives the student a brand spanking new WI DL on it so they can vote where they live and avoid the non-representation part. Problem solved.; 4/26/11, 4:19 PM
Anonymous said...: "Students are a mobile group, as they continuously look for more reliable and economic places of living, a change on their ID cards would need to accompany the already-burdensome process of moving."

Let's break this red herring in two.

1) Students don't typically move from city to city or state to state when looking for cheaper digs. They relocate in the same city.

2) 'Cause spending an hour or two at the DMV is simply way too burdensome to entertain for the ability to vote.; 4/26/11, 4:20 PM
Original Mike said...: "Taxation without Representation"

Students pay taxes?; 4/26/11, 4:21 PM
KCFleming said...: "not being able to vote where you live"

Where they temporarily reside is not the same as where they live.

Wisconsin should not be captive to 10,000 carpetbaggers.; 4/26/11, 4:21 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: But...they can vote where they live, they just have to get an ID card from one of Wisconsin's world-class unionized DMVs.

Is there a civil rights violation in there somewhere?; 4/26/11, 4:27 PM
garage mahal said...: While maintaining the Prosser vote was fraudulent, Garage voices disdain for preventing voter fraud

I said I didn't trust Nickolaus counting votes, and for damn good reasons. If the WI GOP has evidence of mass voter fraud in the state I would love to see it. But of course they don't. They never do.; 4/26/11, 4:29 PM
Toshiro said...: I remember being shocked when I found out that I could vote for elections in the city where I went to college, as if I had a vested interest in that locality.

I was a big liberal then. The town, apart from the college, was conservative. They got to count my liberal, not-too-interested-in-their-town votes.; 4/26/11, 4:29 PM
PeterK said...: @garage mahal - I guess you missed the voter registration fraud that recently occurred in Colorado
i'm like others what is wrong with presenting a photo id when one votes.
have we forgotten the Illinois vote count in the 1960 presidential election? or what about the Democratic Senatorial primary in Texas in 1948. Box 13 mysteriously appears with just enough votes to put LBJ over the top. or what about the shenanigans involving the esteemed Senator Franken's election? Democrats don't want rules they want anarchy when it comes to elections. just look at their union partners who have been pushing for card check, can't have secret ballots in union elections can we?

I say more power to the legislature. here's something else are these students paying Wisconsin income taxes?; 4/26/11, 4:30 PM
Toshiro said...: Students are incredibly ignorant. Having them vote in your elections is reason enough to take a position against opening a college in one's town.

Ideal would be to live in a town just across a state line with a college in an adjacent town on the other side.; 4/26/11, 4:32 PM
Original Mike said...: "If the WI GOP has evidence of mass voter fraud in the state I would love to see it."

Because anything short of "mass" voter fraud is inconsequential, eh?; 4/26/11, 4:32 PM
rhhardin said...: I outsource my vote.; 4/26/11, 4:34 PM
slarrow said...: Funny. Nobody seems to get bent out of shape about a college student's fake ID. Now we've going to have a fainting spell because they have to have real ones?; 4/26/11, 4:34 PM
Toshiro said...: Oh bah, my name is not Toshiro. Sorry, I was logged into the account I made so that my son could use Khan Academy.; 4/26/11, 4:34 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Republican "voter fraud" claims are just people not voting for Republicans.

Nice sound bite. But, it should be interesting to see the effects of fraud reduction legislation in voting in different states in the next national election. My guess is that the states that have enacted these measures will move right more quickly than those that maintain voting systems where voter fraud is much easier. I am thinking of states like Ohio, and, if this passes, maybe Wisconsin.

Of course, garage may be correct, that voter fraud is not an issue. But, I would suggest that his position is the minority position here.; 4/26/11, 4:34 PM
KCFleming said...: So you don't trust the GOP vote counter, but you see no evidence of voter fraud.

Ooooooh.
You're only concerned with GOP voter fraud!
That explains it.

In short, you just don't want Democrats to be left out when it comes to cheating.

Is that right?; 4/26/11, 4:34 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Damn, damn, damn.

Toshiro = my son.; 4/26/11, 4:35 PM
reader_iam said...: Voting should be raised back to 21, except for military.

So, someone who at 18 or 19, not going to school but perhaps working full-time and thus paying taxes, shouldn't be able to vote? What if they're married? What if they have kids? What if they're taking on what ordinarily would be considered the responsibilities of adult life? They shouldn't be able to vote until 21?

Nah. Can't agree with you on this one, Chickelit.; 4/26/11, 4:37 PM
Original Mike said...: You trying to vote in our elections, Freeman?; 4/26/11, 4:37 PM
reader_iam said...: I wasted my first vote on Carter in '80.

Well, I voted for Anderson in '80. Arguably, mine was even more wasted. ; )

Regardless, I'd say all that's beside the point.; 4/26/11, 4:39 PM
KCFleming said...: "So, someone who at 18 or 19, not going to school but perhaps working full-time and thus paying taxes, shouldn't be able to vote?"

Not where they don't really live, like most of the university students who remain dependents for IRS purposes.; 4/26/11, 4:42 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Republicans can only win if they prevent young people and poor people from voting.

People are starting to wake up to the fact that we have a fake democracy. We have instead a government for the rich few and wealthy corporations.; 4/26/11, 4:42 PM
garage mahal said...: Because anything short of "mass" voter fraud is inconsequential, eh?

Walker and the GOP keep saying we're "broke", yet they want to spend millions on a problem that doesn't exist. Sort of off-topic, but I heard students have occupied Bacom Hall protesting the NBP.; 4/26/11, 4:43 PM
Original Mike said...: What's the NBP?; 4/26/11, 4:44 PM
windbag said...: Compared to the paperwork and hassle involved to be allowed to purchase cigarettes, purchase alcohol, register my kid for Little League, write a check at the grocery store, get into a theme park, make a purchase with a credit card at a fast food restaurant, or any number of other mundane activities, it hardly seems an undue burden for people to make a minimal effort to verify that they are eligible to engage in one of the most precious activities we enjoy in this great nation.; 4/26/11, 4:47 PM
Milwaukee said...: College students get to vote once in each election, if they are 18. Either at home where mom or dad and all their stuff is, or in the college town they are living in. Wherever they want to register to vote, and with the DMV and their insurance that is their permanent address, then they get to. But if the insurance agent and the DMV think one place is home, and the election officials think another place is home, then there is a problem. Just be consistent. For example if they make Madison their voting home, then they need to update their drivers license and registration every time they move. If they keep Lodi, where the parents are as home, then their college address is temporary, and not on their DL and not where they register to vote. Not so hard. Unless they are entitled whiners.

To be sure, living independently of the parents means changing address with the DMV and voter registration everytime they move. But they have to change their address at the post office, and with utilities as well. Moving is a hassle. Most people don't move a lot and we don't need to have voter registration to favor a small subset of the population which engages in a behavior most of the population doesn't.; 4/26/11, 4:47 PM
garage mahal said...: New Badger Partnership.; 4/26/11, 4:48 PM
reader_iam said...: Pogo, I'm not discounting the problem to which you refer or disputing that there is one. I was disagreeing with one particular proposed solution, and I stand by my position on that.; 4/26/11, 4:48 PM
reader_iam said...: What Milwaukee said. Excellent!; 4/26/11, 4:51 PM
Anneliese said...: In Wisconsin you do not have to have your current address on your ID, but you do have to have it in the system. My driver's license will not reflect my current address for another year, when I renew it. But the DMV does have my current address in the system. They used to give you a sticker to put on the back of your ID, but they don't even do that anymore.; 4/26/11, 4:57 PM
Simon said...: Good. Not only will it help voter fraud, it will also depress youth voting, a menace that we should curb as much as the 26th amendment allows.; 4/26/11, 4:59 PM
Methadras said...: Garage, voter fraud historically and realistically has always been in the entrenched domain of the leftard. If they can't win fairly, they cheat, if they can't cheat fairly, they sue. If you choose not to see that, then that's your problem. Besides, if it's good enough for Iraqi's to jam their fingers in purple dye to show they voted, then why wouldn't it be good enough for a student or a leftard. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I knew that it would diminish voter fraud or eliminated completely.

I'd prefer voter ID, but you have to start somewhere.; 4/26/11, 5:00 PM
garage mahal said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/26/11, 5:01 PM
garage mahal said...: Good. Not only will it help voter fraud, it will also depress youth voting, a menace that we should curb as much as the 26th amendment allows.

Freedom!; 4/26/11, 5:02 PM
Once written, twice... said...: You can bet that Republicans will increase the cost of getting a driver license change of address to further discourage poor people and young people from voting.

If Republicans were interested in poor people having the right to vote they would make getting a drivers License a nominal fee like ten dollars. But you can bet they will raise it past a hundred.; 4/26/11, 5:05 PM
MarkD said...: I'm all for it as long as you are consistent, by charging in-state tuition to those you are willing to consider residents for voting purposes.

I didn't think so.; 4/26/11, 5:06 PM
ignatzk said...: What prevents an out-of-state student from voting absentee in their home state and voting locally in Wisconsin?; 4/26/11, 5:06 PM
KCFleming said...: Prevents?

Who wants to prevent it?

That's the plan.; 4/26/11, 5:09 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Comment fraud!; 4/26/11, 5:10 PM
reader_iam said...: Simon, while I can appreciate your concern in the aggregate, it's problematic at the individual level. Some people will be unthoughtful throughout their lives; others are thoughtful out of the starting gate. In addition, I think we need to infantilize young adults less, not more: thus my position in support of the franchise for 18-year-olds AND my lack of sympathy for any whining as to how burdensome it might be for their having to document their eligibility to vote in a particular place.; 4/26/11, 5:11 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: What a pipe dream. Has judge Sumi weighed in on this? I want to hear from those that are actually in charge.; 4/26/11, 5:15 PM
chickelit said...: @reader_iam: You have won me over and convinced me.

But can I still disagree with garage mahal? :); 4/26/11, 5:23 PM
Synova said...: I voted when I was in college but only for state and national races.

I felt that the mobility of my college existence made voting for the mayor, city council, or referendum on how many people needed to be on a garbage truck crew, or what housing ordinances ought to be, was irresponsible. I didn't live there. How dared I make choices for the people who did?; 4/26/11, 5:29 PM
Simon said...: reader_iam, I certainly agree that there are individuals who are exceptional, but elections are in the business of aggregates. It strikes me that the average eighteen year old will not have developed the knowledge, experience, and maturity to vote responsibly. For example, I had not, none of the teenagers I know have (with one exception, but we are dealing in the business of aggregates), and exit polling of how teenagers actually vote seems to confirm the point.

Given a free hand, I would raise the voting age to 24 and impose a history and civics test. (Not to mention eliminating a number of the offices subject to election.); 4/26/11, 5:31 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: What Milwaukee said. Excellent!

I second that.

If it's your real address, then it's your real address, not just your "real" address for the purpose of voting.; 4/26/11, 5:34 PM
Synova said...: "There's a phrase for not being able to vote where you live.

Taxation without Representation"

Well, sure.

IF THAT'S WHERE YOU LIVE.

I voted from my college address after I, 1) established my status as as independent from my parents in Minnesota and, 2) established Fargo as my permanent address, including changing my driver's license.

It's not that hard.

And if you want to be a dependent of your parents, still, you can get an absentee ballot and vote on issues important to your home.; 4/26/11, 5:37 PM
Mark said...: If Republicans were interested in poor people having the right to vote they would make getting a drivers License a nominal fee like ten dollars. But you can bet they will raise it past a hundred.

I would bet against you on that JR.

You lefties can throw insults and prop up straw men all you like, but the party of fraud is the one that supports a system that allows 10,000 overvotes in an election.

No student is being denied the right to vote in their place of legal residence. That's what absentee ballots are for. The linked article is a blatant defense of a system designed to dilute the franchise of local legal voters. This is not an honorable stance.; 4/26/11, 5:40 PM
Once written, twice... said...: If Republicans were really concerned about voter fraud and wanted to make sure everyone had an equal opportunity to vote they would support a national I.D. card and fund an uniform system across states that makes sure there is no multiple voting. This I.D. card could double as a Social Security card and would cost voters nothing.

But Republicans are not really concerned about voter fraud. Instead, their goal is to discourage poor people and young people from voting.; 4/26/11, 5:47 PM
reader_iam said...: Simon:

This is something on which you and I will no doubt continue to disagree. I think your proposed cure (in particular, the age issue) is worse than the disease, especially given historic rates of voting among young adults. Eighteen-year-olds are considered adults with regard to contracts; with regard to the criminal justice system; with regard to eligibility to serve in the military (and, in the past--and perhaps in the future, who knows?--to be drafted in such) and so on and so on and so on. I just can't support efforts with regard to the voting franchise that penalize the responsible in order to shut out the irresponsible (especially when I don't agree with the OTHER premise embedded in your argument: that is, that with increased age automatically comes increased responsibility with regard to voting).

I do, always, appreciate the chance to discuss such things with you, however (as well you know : ) ).; 4/26/11, 5:50 PM
Synova said...: Oh wow, Jay Retread. We all know that liberals want to have a national ID card, probably a chip implant, too.

But an ID card to vote? Don't be so publicly foolish, you'll embarrass yourself.; 4/26/11, 5:50 PM
Revenant said...: Students would be forced to devote literally *minutes* of their lives to this effort. So it is clearly unfair.; 4/26/11, 5:51 PM
X said...: you shouldn't be able to vote until you're mature enough to get off your parents health insurance, so 26.; 4/26/11, 5:57 PM
Matthias said...: "You must notify the Wisconsin Department of Transportation of a change in address within 10 days of moving to a new residence, and to obtain a replacement driver license...

The WI DMV has a website where you can change your residence address online here."

So the process is already required by law and is online. Perhaps the complaint is that Wisconsin students are not familiar with this whole "online" business.; 4/26/11, 5:58 PM
Mark said...: If Republicans were really concerned about voter fraud and wanted to make sure everyone had an equal opportunity to vote they would support a national I.D. card and fund an uniform system across states that makes sure there is no multiple voting.

JR, the Democrats howl if you ask voters to be able to produce anything like a state-issued non-drivers ID card in order to vote. In fact, I agree that a national ID system that could be used to verify actual living human beings were the only ones to vote, and that each one voted only once per election and only where they were legal residents, would be a huge benefit to society. And yes, make it free to citizens to enroll, by all means.

Trust me on this, it ain't going to be Republicans who keep such a system from happening. Not when Dane County can deliver 10,000 more votes than voters.; 4/26/11, 6:10 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Synova, you are making a public fool of yourself by providing no argument with your ad hominem attack.

A Social Security card is considered I.D. Why not expand the usefulness of that card so that we can guarantee that there is no voter fraud? The reason Republicans will not support this is because they are not really concerned with voter fraud. They just want to disenfranchise poor people and the young.; 4/26/11, 6:15 PM
Lance said...: The reason Republicans will not support this is because they are not really concerned with voter fraud. They just want to disenfranchise poor people and the young.

You realize this is as much an ad hominem argument as Synova's, right?; 4/26/11, 6:18 PM
Original Mike said...: "Not when Dane County can deliver 10,000 more votes than voters."

What's this about?; 4/26/11, 6:19 PM
JohnJ said...: garage mahal said...
“I said I didn't trust Nickolaus counting votes, and for damn good reasons.”

Now we have Nickolaus actually counting the votes?

If nothing else, you're consistent in the way you drop these little factoids across the various threads.

It must be exhausting.

I know tracking down all of them for correction certainly would be.; 4/26/11, 6:24 PM
MadisonMan said...: Matthias -- note that you do not receive a new license when you do that online registration.; 4/26/11, 6:27 PM
Once written, twice... said...: No Lance, I provided an argument. There are ways to further protect against voter fraud without disproportionately making it harder for the poor and the young to vote. Republicans are not interested in these solutions. They obvious reason is that they are not really concerned about voter fraud. Instead they want to make it harder for poor people and the young to vote.; 4/26/11, 6:27 PM
MadisonMan said...: What's this about?

Is that the 'overvote' that I keep reading about herein?

No idea what it's about either. Maybe it's related to the ballots that supposedly only had votes for Kloppenburg, but not the very competitive (snork) mayoral race?; 4/26/11, 6:28 PM
Thorley Winston said...: A Social Security card is considered I.D.

No it’s not.; 4/26/11, 6:37 PM
Milwaukee said...: If Republicans were really concerned about voter fraud and wanted to make sure everyone had an equal opportunity to vote they would support a national I.D. card and fund an uniform system across states that makes sure there is no multiple voting. This I.D. card could double as a Social Security card and would cost voters nothing.

But Republicans are not really concerned about voter fraud. Instead, their goal is to discourage poor people and young people from voting.

If we want real true comparisons to totalitarianism, national identity cards are a great place to start. Then we will tell doctors that everybody has a right to health care, and this doctor needs to be there so they get it. Then we will tell businesses where they may and may not work.

The poor in America throughout the Cold War, were much better off than the poor in the USSR or Red China.

As we're going down the drain, the circling gets faster and the circles get smaller.; 4/26/11, 6:38 PM
garage mahal said...: What's this about?

More John Fund nonsense.; 4/26/11, 6:38 PM
Kathy Antley said...: Why should a city or state be forced to live with the electoral preferences of a dipshit who has no intention of living in the city?; 4/26/11, 6:38 PM
traditionalguy said...: You ain't seen nothing yet. The next GOP bill will require parking lot breathalyser tests to discourage drunks from driving to the polls. Now that is dirty politics.; 4/26/11, 6:39 PM
Once written, twice... said...: When filling out the paper work verifying immigration status a Social Security card can be used as one form of I.D.; 4/26/11, 6:41 PM
SteveR said...: Well, I voted for Anderson in '80. Arguably, mine was even more wasted. ; )

Me too. I've always thought you were brilliant Reader.; 4/26/11, 6:42 PM
Jamieson said...: Maybe liberals think we're talking about "Voter Intelligent Design" and that's the reason they're so opposed to the idea. Keep ID out of our classrooms and polling places!; 4/26/11, 6:42 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: A Social Security card is considered I.D.

A Social Security card is NOT considered ID. You are never asked to present your Social Security card when opening a bank account because it is not ID. The bank will do a data base reference and determine if the SS matches your information.

As a Notary Public, I can NOT accept it as ID. Immigration does not accept a Social Security card as identification.

You are wrong wrongidy wrong.; 4/26/11, 6:50 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: It wouldn't make it more difficult for them to vote in their home districts.; 4/26/11, 7:01 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Dust Bunny you should know that when verifying employment status a Social Security card is an acceptable form of I.D. I am a small business owner/ I have been filling out this form for years.; 4/26/11, 7:04 PM
Once written, twice... said...: A SS card is obviously not a photo I.D.
But it is still an I.D.; 4/26/11, 7:07 PM
Mumpsimus said...: Wow, that's a really badly-written piece.; 4/26/11, 7:07 PM
Once written, twice... said...: You mean "poorly written"...; 4/26/11, 7:11 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: A SS card is obviously not a photo I.D.
But it is still an I.D

No. It. Is. Not.; 4/26/11, 7:14 PM
Mark said...: Read this to learn The Milwaukee Way.

The city keeps losing population, but gaining voters.; 4/26/11, 7:19 PM
Original Mike said...: My card says, on the face: FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"; 4/26/11, 7:26 PM
MadisonMan said...: mark, that's very interesting.

For Dane County, which gained population by 15.2% from 2000 -> 2009, voter totals increased from 232772 in 2000 to 282945 in 2008 -- an increase of 21.5%.; 4/26/11, 7:33 PM
MadisonMan said...: Tried to do the same analysis for Waukesha Co, but they don't report results from 2000. Slackers.; 4/26/11, 7:49 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: There isn't any honest reason to oppose a state ID to vote.

People like garage would oppose this even if the IDs were given out for free.

If this law were accompanined by a provision that said people under a certain income level could get one free, they would still oppose it.; 4/26/11, 7:52 PM
Mark said...: MadisonMan, I am good with a slight total increase in population combined with a slightly greater increase in voter participation.

What's harder to square is a loss of 30,000 adult residents in a city, but a gain of 50,000 voters in the space of four years.

I'm sorry, Man, that sets the BS detectors off.

Here's another interesting link.; 4/26/11, 7:53 PM
Stephen A. Meigs said...: If the required ID cards necessary for voting aren't free, wouldn't that be akin to a poll tax and thus violate the XXIV amendment? If not, How expensive would an ID card have to be to be considered a poll tax?; 4/26/11, 8:03 PM
hombre said...: Garage wrote: [Repubs] want to spend millions on a problem [voter fraud] that doesn't exist.

Google: "voter fraud convictions Democrats".

Of course, the problem exists. The mediaswine play it down or don't disclose the party affiliation if those convicted are Dems or their stooges.; 4/26/11, 8:07 PM
Mark said...: Here's another link to the same story, but this time to a "reputable" media outlet, WISN:

Task Force Finds More Ballots Cast Than Registered Voters

I love the subhead: Mayor Vows To Fix Flawed System

HA ha ha HA ha.; 4/26/11, 8:07 PM
MadisonMan said...: What's harder to square is a loss of 30,000 adult residents in a city, but a gain of 50,000 voters in the space of four years.

The question is: Is this a commonplace phenomena that happened elsewhere? The voting data and population data are there if you want to figure it out. Just how much of an outlier is Milwaukee County?

Just because something looks odd -- and I agree it does -- doesn't mean there's only a nefarious explanation for it.; 4/26/11, 8:10 PM
Mark said...: See, JR, Meigs is already shooting down the idea of a U.S. Voter ID card on "Poll Tax" grounds, and he has a point. (Which is why it pretty much has to be free to any citizen applying for it.)

But then the argument will morph into "undue burden" territory, and questions as to whether properly filling out the paperwork is effectively a "literacy test".

Which is why, whether you meant to or not, you set up a particularly amusing straw man.; 4/26/11, 8:13 PM
Mark said...: MadisonMan, if I made a very-late-in-life career shift to become a researcher at a Libertarian think tank, that would be a fun project to pursue.

I might do it anyway when the twins enter pre-school in the fall. I'm pretty exercised about vote fraud right now, and the integrity of the vote is damned important to our society.

Having said that, everyone in the free world scoffed when the Soviets would report 100% voter turnout.

In 2004, the average turnout for the country was just shy of 57%.

Milwaukee got 101% voter participation in 2004. (71% of which went to John Kerry, in a state where he won by roughly 11,000 votes.)

It's really very hard to come up with any plausible scenario where Milwaukee's 2004 electoral process wasn't nefarious.; 4/26/11, 8:34 PM
Milwaukee said...: Mark has left a new comment on the post ""The Wisconsin State Legislature is considering a ...":

Here's another link to the same story, but this time to a "reputable" media outlet, WISN:

Task Force Finds More Ballots Cast Than Registered Voters

I love the subhead: Mayor Vows To Fix Flawed System

Mark: I followed your link. Very interesting. Thousands more vote than registered. They can account for a hundred with people double voting, and a couple hundred more with convicted felons who shouldn't have been voting. But, ...they have not found any pattern of conspiracy to commit fraud. Mayor Barrett wants resources for training and retraining staff and for investigating. But both the Mayor and the Governor insist that whatever problems occurred wouldn't have been prevented with a Voter ID law. Wow. Before an investigation has even started, they knew that a Voter ID law wouldn't cure the problem. That is like so wow fantastic clever.

That is really cool, Milwaukee having a voter turn out so high. Good trick that: population goes down but the numbers voting goes up. Nothing to see here, just move on. (Or am I shocked, shocked that there is voter fraud going on here!); 4/26/11, 8:35 PM
Milwaukee said...: Milwaukee is a good candidate for being the most western East Coast City in the nation. They are a smidgen to the west of Chicago, albeit north of that city. What with the strength of the labor unions, the progressive history, manufacturing, shipping and graft.

Des Moines in not an East Coast City. People in Iowa are really polite, even in Des Moines. Is St. Louis more like an East Coast City, or is it Southern?

I love what JFK said about D.C.: It was a mixture of Northern hospitality and Southern efficiency.; 4/26/11, 8:39 PM
WineSlob said...: Voter Fraud the Lefties Applaud
Like They Committed for that Kloppenburg Broad
Bogus Registrations
Vote Nullifications
The Fraud Squads Laud the Law's Flaws.; 4/26/11, 8:41 PM
Matthias said...: Madison Man:

I was kind of assuming that changing an address on a license in WI was the same as it is in UT and GA (the two states I'm familiar with).

In those states, you affix the new address via a label to the back of your driver's license. If you're pulled over, the cops ask you "Is this your current home address?" and it better be on your driver's license somewhere.

Is this not the case in WI?; 4/26/11, 8:51 PM
Paul said...: If all votes are to be counted (as Pelosi said) then voter fraud must be stopped or the votes will NOT be all counted.

I'd be happy to show my DL to vote. No biggie.; 4/26/11, 8:56 PM
SteveR said...: The financial hardship (and its variations) can, in reality, be easily overcome, if they are legitimate. If that's all you got, move along and keep searching.; 4/26/11, 9:02 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: Blogger ate my comment! Grrr.

Jay Retread,

If you think it's Republicans who block the creation of a national ID card ... well, that's just crazy talk. It wasn't Republicans who went nuts when Georgia passed a law requiring photo ID for voting purposes -- even though the ID was (as you suggest) made free to those lacking a Georgia DL. It wasn't Republicans who freaked out over the suggestion that maybe, just maybe, driver's licenses ought to indicate the immigration status of the license-holder, given that they're now used as all-purpose ID. Wikipedia, being scrupulously even-handed as ever, notes the opposition of the Cato Institute and some gun-rights groups to the REAL ID Act, but really that fight broke down along party lines that you know as well as I do.

wv: notes. (I hear them; my husband's teaching a violin lesson downstairs.); 4/26/11, 10:17 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Anything to keep youngsters out of adult matters is fine by me.; 4/26/11, 11:17 PM
Karl said...: Same day registration should be eliminated. Voting day is chaotic enough without accommodating folks who didn't give a shit until the last minute.

Identify yourself. At least to the minimal standard of buying a bottle of wine at pick-n-save. If your run of the mill bouncer would laugh at your ID, let's not accept that to vote.
Utility bills? For fscks sake. Where did that come from?

Since we seem so hell bent on becomming a lower tier country-
Dip a digit in the purple ink at the time your vote is cast. The ink will replace the "I voted" sticker & be cost neutral. I suppose this will be an affront to minorities, women, multi-voters, young children, union people, and other disenfranchised peoples. Tough shit.; 4/26/11, 11:24 PM
Stephen A. Meigs said...: Mark--

That's an incredible story about Milwaukee, so I looked it up. What actually apparently happened in Milwaukee in 2004 was that about 4500 more people voted than were recorded as voting. Still very bad, but not incredibly so. Apparently there was sloppy reporting initially at the WAPO. See the actual preliminary report.; 4/26/11, 11:25 PM
Ralph L said...: NC requires you show a SS card with your current address when you get a Driver's License. I had to show my then current license to the SS administration office to get a new SS card last fall so I could renew my license.

Our government at work.; 4/27/11, 12:30 AM
damikesc said...: So Jay's plan to fix voter fraud is to enable identity theft?

Solid idea.; 4/27/11, 7:10 AM
Anonymous said...: When filling out the paper work verifying immigration status a Social Security card can be used as one form of I.D.

I thought the SS card verified your citizenship status, not your identity.; 4/27/11, 9:14 AM
Lance said...: @Jay Retread
They obvious reason is that they are not really concerned about voter fraud. Instead they want to make it harder for poor people and the young to vote.

Impugning the motive of a debate opponent is a classic ad hominem attack.; 4/27/11, 10:11 AM