Althouse: At the Wisconsin Teahouse...

February 21, 2011

At the Wisconsin Teahouse...

... go ahead — try to talk about whatever you want.

275 comments:

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Alex said...: Surf n' Turf for lunch. 2 chicken kabobs and 3 shrimp/bacon appetizers.; 2/21/11, 5:11 PM
Alex said...: Norman Goldman just called them the RepubliCON party.; 2/21/11, 5:12 PM
Alex said...: He keeps ranting about the Koch Bros.; 2/21/11, 5:12 PM
Calypso Facto said...: Re: camel

It really IS like Egypt after all!; 2/21/11, 5:12 PM
Alex said...: Again Goldman just said RepubliCON 2x.; 2/21/11, 5:14 PM
Alex said...: So much for the new civility.; 2/21/11, 5:14 PM
Alex said...: Goldman is about to have a stroke on-air.; 2/21/11, 5:16 PM
Alex said...: War-machine empire for conquest of natural resources, principally oil.; 2/21/11, 5:16 PM
MadisonMan said...: (even though Feingold collected more than Johnson)

Cases of brandy? (I liked that this comment was right after the one from Korbel); 2/21/11, 5:18 PM
MadisonMan said...: Surf n' Turf for lunch. 2 chicken kabobs and 3 shrimp/bacon appetizers.

How many Brandy Old-Fashioneds?

wv: chesse. For one brief, glorious minute, I thought it was cheese; 2/21/11, 5:20 PM
Alex said...: Madison Man - nope just water. Overdid things Friday night, I'm teetotaling for another day or 2.; 2/21/11, 5:21 PM
Anonymous said...: I was just thinking back to the original version of this blog "Marginalia".

Althouse thought she'd be commenting from a distant outpost, not from the center of the action.; 2/21/11, 5:24 PM
Calypso Facto said...: Cases of brandy?

Ha! Nice unintentional association.

A little nip prob'ly would have helped Feingold out during the campaign. He seemed tense (rightfully so, it turned out) and off his game.

Just chill out man!; 2/21/11, 5:38 PM
Michael K said...: The sad part of he doctor story is that people keep mentioning the Hippocratic Oath. That has been history for a long time. It started as an abortion issue but has gotten in the way of "Social Justice" repeatedly.; 2/21/11, 5:45 PM
Big Mike said...: Althouse got the Progressive Doctors In Trouble!

Not really. There will be some level of huffing and puffing. Commissions will be established, primarily for political theater and to kick the can down the road.

At some point the medical establishment will decide that the heat has died down enough, and they'll issue some sort of report. Maybe a slight wrist slap. That'll be it.

Watch and see if I'm not right.; 2/21/11, 5:46 PM
David said...: Tea is the new Beer. Or something.; 2/21/11, 5:48 PM
Alex said...: Big Mike - life has made you too cynical. A shame.; 2/21/11, 5:50 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: @Alex - You know he's right. By the way, who is Norman Goldman and would anyone care what he says?; 2/21/11, 5:53 PM
Paddy O said...: Is something going on in Madison?; 2/21/11, 5:55 PM
Alex said...: Maguro - Goldman is one of the Air America holdovers. He always follow Sgt Shulz. He's even crazier then crazy Eddie.; 2/21/11, 5:57 PM
Jeremy said...: If Walker needs money to balance his budget, why doesn't he do something about this?

According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981.; 2/21/11, 5:59 PM
Anonymous said...: IF Obama's stimulus had worked, the economy would have picked up and tax revenues for the states would have grown tremendously. IF Obama’s stimulus had worked there would never have been a Tea Party. IF there were no Tea Party, Republicans would not have won so many state legislature seats. IF Republicans had not won all those state legislature seats there would not have been a chance of anything like this ever seeing the light of day. . IF Obama's stimulus had worked there would not have been a chance in this universe that any governor would have proposed these actions. BUT Obama's stimulus Failed. Policies have consequences my friends.; 2/21/11, 6:02 PM
Anonymous said...: IF Obama's stimulus had worked, the economy would have picked up and tax revenues for the states would have grown tremendously. IF Obama’s stimulus had worked there would never have been a Tea Party. IF there were no Tea Party, Republicans would not have won so many state legislature seats. IF Republicans had not won all those state legislature seats there would not have been a chance of anything like this ever seeing the light of day. . IF Obama's stimulus had worked there would not have been a chance in this universe that any governor would have proposed these actions. BUT Obama's stimulus Failed. Policies have consequences my friends.; 2/21/11, 6:03 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Jeremy said...

If Walker needs money to balance his budget, why doesn't he do something about this?

Maybe because he's not an idiot nor a partisan hack so he knows that many of the corporations are S-corporations, which don't pay taxes because the taxes are paid by the owner instead.

Others don't pay taxes because they don't make money in a given year.; 2/21/11, 6:07 PM
Jason said...: "According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981."

-----------------------------

Thats because many small businesses in Wisconsin file their taxes as Subchapter-S corporations. Subchapter-S corporations pass their income or losses on to the shareholders of the company, and then the shareholders file that on their individual tax returns.; 2/21/11, 6:10 PM
ricpic said...: ...we can no longer afford to do what we need to do as a nation.

We need to keep cosseting a parasitic class?; 2/21/11, 6:11 PM
David said...: "According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981."

Jeremy (you ignorant slut) consider this:

Usually corporations that do not pay taxes have made no profits.

Plus these days a lot of corporations are pass through entities, treated essentially as partnerships for tax purposes. This means that the shareholders pay the tax on the income if there is profit.; 2/21/11, 6:15 PM
ricpic said...: Commissions will be established...

Bottom line? "Do we really want to ruin the lives of these promising young men for one mistake?"; 2/21/11, 6:15 PM
Lincolntf said...: Listening to Gov. Walker live on the "Mark Levin Show". The Governor is still the most reasonable voice I've heard throughout this whole ordeal.; 2/21/11, 6:18 PM
BJM said...: @R-V

I guess Rep Paul Ryan was right when he said "Cairo has come to Madison."

So when does the looting, rape and stabbings of journalists begin?; 2/21/11, 6:18 PM
Jeremy said...: Ignorance is Bliss and Jason - So, 2/3 of the corporations in Wisconsin are, as you say; Subchapter-S? I-don't-think-it's-even-close...

Why?

Well, first of all, the number and type of investors who can become shareholders in an S corporation is very restricted. And, an S corporation can have no more than 75 shareholders. Shareholders in an S Corporation cannot be partnerships, other corporations, most types of trusts, or non-U.S. residents.

Other than saving corporations money...what is it about this that you two clowns like? How does it help Wisconsin taxpayers who are not shareholders?

And I guess we can assume the shareholders of such corporation are not paying their fair share of taxes?; 2/21/11, 6:20 PM
Jeremy said...: BJM "So when does the looting, rape and stabbings of journalists begin?"

You get a kick out of those "rape" stories, huh?

Ignorant prick.; 2/21/11, 6:21 PM
Jeremy said...: Lincolntf "Listening to Gov. Walker live on the "Mark Levin Show". The Governor is still the most reasonable voice I've heard throughout this whole ordeal."

Gee, now there an objective commentary.

Duh.; 2/21/11, 6:22 PM
Jason said...: "And I guess we can assume the shareholders of such corporation are not paying their fair share of taxes?"
--------------------------

Did you completely miss the part about companies actually having to MAKE MONEY to pay taxes?

If corporations take losses, they owe no taxes. All the more reason that its important the business in Wisconsin actually succeed.; 2/21/11, 6:23 PM
Jason said...: "Listening to Gov. Walker live on the "Mark Levin Show". The Governor is still the most reasonable voice I've heard throughout this whole ordeal."

------------------

Saw his press conference live. If he is nervous or scared in any way, you wouldnt know it by looking at him. Very poised and confident.; 2/21/11, 6:26 PM
David said...: Meanwhile in Libya . . . . .

They are killing protesters by the hundreds.

Like Hitler.; 2/21/11, 6:26 PM
Jason said...: "Meanwhile in Libya . . . . .

They are killing protesters by the hundreds.

Like Hitler."
-------------------

Thought the same thing when I heard on the radio that Lybian government ordered jets to drop bombs on protestors.

But yeah, Walker is Hitler alright.; 2/21/11, 6:29 PM
Fen said...: Damn Jeremy, you should be paying peeps here for educating you.; 2/21/11, 6:29 PM
Chris said...: Just read that the Times has concluded that blogging is dead. Everyone out! Ann, great job, but we expect the bandwidth returned by Friday and in good working order.; 2/21/11, 6:29 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Saw his press conference live. If he is nervous or scared in any way, you wouldnt know it by looking at him. Very poised and confident.

Yeah, you don't need to worry about Walker. It's the Repub state senators who might decide to turn "maverick" and push for a compromise. Whoever turns on Walker gets MSM cred for life.; 2/21/11, 6:30 PM
David said...: Jeremy--Most corporations NEVER make any money. They begin as a dream and die.

Your statistic was totally meaningless, though you must be used to that.; 2/21/11, 6:30 PM
Fen said...: Bottom line? "Do we really want to ruin the lives of these promising young men for one mistake?"

Class action suit for parents to recoup money lost during illegal strike. Docs names as co-conspirators to fraud.; 2/21/11, 6:31 PM
David said...: How about a little air cover to keep the Libya government jets and helicopter gunships on the ground?

Perhaps the Italians, Americans, French and British could get together on this.

Fast.; 2/21/11, 6:33 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Hahaha, ricpic. I did not know cosset means pamper, especially a little lamb. I thought it was a really tight girdle laced in the back.; 2/21/11, 6:33 PM
Jim Howard said...: Living in Austin and working in the tech industry I have a lot of liberal friends. They are good people, but when it comes to public policy they are driven by their hearts rather than their otherwise excellent brains.

Many of my friends are like our much loved but conflicted Profession Ann, who intellectually understand that conservatives solutions are preferable in most cases, but still has a really hard time actually voting for actual conservatives.

Still, they are at least capable of making coherent arguments for higher taxes and bigger government. Not good arguments, but at least coherent.

I mention this because I've come to believe that garage mahal is in fact a conservative. His 'arguments', if you want to dignify his childish hate driven rants with that phrase, make no sense at all in any known universe.

Garage is, in my opinion, very possibly just a cartoon liberal, probably put out there by a Koch funded conservative to make liberals look really childish and stupid.; 2/21/11, 6:34 PM
Synova said...: I'm reminded of what would happen to me if I just decided not to send my kid to school for a week.

Cops in bullet proof vests show up to your house.; 2/21/11, 6:37 PM
Anonymous said...: "According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981.

Again, why is it that you don't link to these alleged "facts"?

Want to guess as to why that is?; 2/21/11, 6:38 PM
BJM said...: "According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981."

I don't know why we bother, except to refute bullshit.

Corporations with brick & mortar ops in WI pay property taxes. They also pay worker comp, unemployment taxes and whatever taxes WI requires to employ.

They pay all manner of use and permit fees. Their employees pay property and income taxes, use and permit fees. Corps consume services that create businesses that pay property and income taxes, use and permit fees and hire employees who pay taxes, who in turn spend money that create business that pay...you get the picture...it's turtles all the way down.

Drive away business and best case you have CA, worst; Detroit.; 2/21/11, 6:39 PM
Anonymous said...: If Walker needs money to balance his budget, why doesn't he do something about this?

Er, because there isn't a revenue problem, there is a spending problem.; 2/21/11, 6:40 PM
Jason said...: "It's the Repub state senators who might decide to turn "maverick" and push for a compromise. Whoever turns on Walker gets MSM cred for life."

---------------------

Possible, but their political career would end in Wisconsin. They would get love from the MSM for a couple of weeks until the budget "fight" ends, and be villified by every right-wing radio host in the state for the rest of their term.; 2/21/11, 6:41 PM
BJM said...: @Alex

War-machine empire for conquest of natural resources, principally oil.

Yeah and it's going so well in the Midest and South American oil producing countries.; 2/21/11, 6:42 PM
Jason said...: "How about a little air cover to keep the Libya government jets and helicopter gunships on the ground?

Perhaps the Italians, Americans, French and British could get together on this.

Fast."

-------------------------

One word: oil.

Look at what has happened to the oil price just today alone. Heard one guy say today that if the Libya thing isnt nipped in the bud soon, gas could hit $4 by Memorial Day.; 2/21/11, 6:43 PM
test said...: "Alex said...

He keeps ranting about the Koch Bros"

He's way behind the times. They were the Democrats' bogeyman three years ago. That's why garage just heard of them.; 2/21/11, 6:43 PM
Lincolntf said...: Jeremy, there's nothing meant to be "objective" or not about it. The man was speaking in his own words and I was commenting on those words.
Shit-for-brains waste of pixels.; 2/21/11, 6:46 PM
David said...: I did not know cosset means pamper, especially a little lamb. I thought it was a really tight girdle laced in the back.

You are both wrong. It means a guy with a horse riding down steps.; 2/21/11, 6:48 PM
F4GIB said...: It is obvious that neither the teachers nor the physicians are supporting the fashion industry.; 2/21/11, 6:48 PM
BJM said...: "...will immediately launch an investigation of the reported behavior."

Where have I heard that before?; 2/21/11, 7:09 PM
BJM said...: Ignorant prick.

FAIL!!!

Ad hominem is the last resort of scoundrels and those who cannot support their argument.; 2/21/11, 7:19 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Garage is, in my opinion, very possibly just a cartoon liberal, probably put out there by a Koch funded conservative to make liberals look really childish and stupid.

It's possible. He did claim awhile ago that he has no liberal friends, just conservative friends. I found that odd as most humans tend to associate with like minded individuals.; 2/21/11, 7:22 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Shareholders in an S Corporation cannot be partnerships, other corporations, most types of trusts, or non-U.S. residents.

Other than saving corporations money...what is it about this that you two clowns like? How does it help Wisconsin taxpayers who are not shareholders?

Just for your edification, small businesses make up most of America's business and employ the lion's share of workers. Most small businesses file as an S Corporation solely because of the favorable tax treatment they receive.

Obviously in that black hole you call a brain, the optimal thing to do would be to remove that favorable tax treatment so they would 'pay their fair share' with the likely result being most of them closing shop and adding to the unemployment numbers.

I have to say Jeremy, just when I think you can't reach any lower depths of ignorance, you still manage to break through to new levels.; 2/21/11, 7:34 PM
Methadras said...: garage mahal said...

Don't be fooled into thinking that ending bargaining rights helps solve budgets.

Why do you always end up on the wrong side of every argument. Tell us then, oh great proclaimator, what will or why ending collective bargaining for these parasitic leeches will not help with regards to the budget?; 2/21/11, 7:36 PM
Peter Hoh said...: Hmm. I'll have to get my counter-protest sign ready:

Eschew superfluous quotation marks.; 2/21/11, 7:41 PM
Known Unknown said...: And the State will take 1% out of your paycheck as a donation of the RNC.

Only if RNC stands something other than Republican National Committee.; 2/21/11, 7:51 PM
BJM said...: Don't be fooled into thinking that ending bargaining rights helps solve budgets.

Same old tired canard. Walker isn't "ending bargaining rights".

The bill limits collective bargaining to salary. This frees each county to bargain for benefits and conditions which will save money as they can tailor their school budget to local needs. Rural and urban counties, for example, have different tax bases and needs. One size does not fit all.

How difficult is this?; 2/21/11, 8:05 PM
BJM said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/21/11, 8:06 PM
former law student said...: The thing to do would be to fire them all and replace them with folks who actually have educations.

If you pay peanuts, what do you get again?

These are the best teachers who will work for what Walker (doesn't even) want to pay.; 2/21/11, 8:35 PM
former law student said...: This frees each county to bargain for benefits and conditions

Bargain with whom?

Who is on the other side of the bargaining table?; 2/21/11, 8:36 PM
Revenant said...: If you pay peanuts, what do you get again?

I'm not sure what you get if you pay peanuts. But if you pay $32/hr plus lucrative benefits and guaranteed employment for life, you get mediocre teachers who don't show up for work.

Let's give "paying peanuts" a shot. We've tried paying huge piles of money and have nothing to show for it but debt.

These are the best teachers who will work for what Walker (doesn't even) want to pay.

The correct way of stating that is "these are the best teachers we can get in a system which requires us to pay all teachers the same, regardless of whether or not they are competent". There are something like 98,000 full-time teachers in Wisconsin. None of them were chosen for their ability, and none of them are paid based on their ability.

For your $32/hour you get a mix of teachers -- some worth $32/hour, some worth $20/hour, some worth $5/hour, and some of whom you would be better off paying to go teach in North Korea or Iran, so that they might undermine our enemies' educational systems instead of our own.

Fire everyone who isn't worth the $32/hour you pay them. Use that money to hire people who are worth it. Repeat as necessary.; 2/21/11, 9:29 PM
Revenant said...: Bargain with whom? Who is on the other side of the bargaining table?

The teacher.

Counties that offer bad benefits and salaries will attract less-qualified teachers. Those who offer better benefits and salaries will attract better-qualified teachers.

This works in every industry on Earth, including university-level education and private K-12 education. But we are expected to believe it is a gross offense to all that is good and decent to expect public K-12 education to work that way.; 2/21/11, 9:32 PM
Unknown said...: 'We don't drink "Tea" in Wisconsin.'

No, you just tax the hell out of it and pass the tax money on to overpaid union no-workers.; 2/21/11, 9:48 PM
BJM said...: Who is on the other side of the bargaining table?

School boards, parents and teachers.

Are teachers suddenly struck mute because they don't have a union rep speaking for them?; 2/21/11, 9:56 PM
Methadras said...: former law student said...

Bargain with whom?

Who is on the other side of the bargaining table?

The employer you are trying to get to hire you to work, you fucking idiot. Why do teachers need the ability to collectively bargain? Are they all that fucking stupid that they can't individually apply for work on their own merits without being lumped into the collective? Is this fact lost on our leftard mind?; 2/21/11, 10:12 PM
gadfly said...: I don't know if anyone has asked ... but isn't the Ann Althouse paycheck going to be slimmed down by paying an additional 5% toward pension and 6 percent more toward Health insurance?; 2/22/11, 12:33 AM
Revenant said...: Althouse mentioned in one of the earlier posts that she'll be taking a $10k/year hit from the changes.; 2/22/11, 3:05 AM
Fen said...: And the Union supporters here revel in her loss.; 2/22/11, 9:16 AM