How did Alvin M. Greene, an unemployed military veteran who lives with his father, come up with the $10,400 filing fee for the Democratic Senate primary he won Tuesday?...Wait. One thing that's not much like what just happened is being used to show a "history" of things like this happening? And it's from 19 years ago?! What would be the point of using Greene this way? Speaking of patterns, isn't there a pattern of quirky outsiders blowing their own money running for office?
South Carolina has a history of political plants being placed in elections to skew turnout. In 1992, Republican operative Rod Shealy was convicted of hiring an African-American fisherman to run for congressional office in hopes of stimulating white turnout to help his sister get elected lieutenant governor. The case of Greene, who is African American, has reminded many here of the Shealy incident, though political sleuths have not come up with any logical meddler or motive.
Is it in the Democratic Party's interest to hound this man? He got 60% of the vote for some reason. It's not as if the guy he beat had any chance of winning. Without harder information, it seems as if people are trying to humiliate and intimidate Greene. He's already got a criminal charge pending against him. And what kind of a criminal charge is that anyway? Asking another adult to look at a pornographic picture? Would you call the police on someone who did that? Would you want your tax money used to prosecute someone who did that?
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143 comments:
Greene's about as good as anybody the Republicans or Democrats have to offer.
I say, give him a shot.
How can he be any worse than the jackasses already in congress?
Easy way the Democrats can solve this problem: the White House should just offer him one of those surplus administration jobs they have for cases just like this, perhaps in the Treasury department.
No! I want my tax money used to prosecute someone who committed adultery!
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/06/for-public-lewdness-should-charge-of.html
If Alvin Greene is smart, he'll set up a Paypal account, and then, look out!
Ok. I did a very little bit of thinking on this...here goes: I get the point Ann is making RE: drawing false parallels between the two incidents in South Carolina (i.e. "Crazyville 2010") politics. But about the obscenity charge: What is the moral/ethical/legal difference between flashing someone an image of a very pornographic scene of sex with images of penises exposed, etc (under the guise of showing them something else) and if he had just walked up and actually flashed her? Presumably, you might think the latter was more intimidating, but what if while he is showing you these pics he is intimidatingly towering over you, leering, etc. How is it different? (P.S. Glad Althouse isn't my Dean; "What's the big deal, bitch? Just some porn...Whattaya want me to do about it?" - The guy here had already been warned to stay off campus for harassing people... I don't have any sympathy for him.)
It is strange. Why would a person of such means spend $10K and then not even try to win. But also why would any Republican bother setting him up. You wouldn't expect him to get the votes he did and the Republican win is a lock anyway. I don't see any scenario that makes sense.
There is something yet to be revealed. It may just be stupidity, but whose?
I can believe the cynicism that got him the votes. I would prefer nearly anyone to an incumbent Democrat myself.
The solution to the mystery of how Greene got elected is so obvious, but no one can say it publicly because we can't talk honestly about race in this country.
Greene won the primary because black voters in South Carolina choose to vote for a completely unqualified black man over a qulified white man simply because of skin color. Greene is black. His opponent is white.
South Carolina's black voters did the smae thing when Obama ran against Clinton, and then when Bill Clinton pointed out the racial factor, James Clyburn and Obama accused him of racism.
Now Clyburn wants to blame the Republicans for Greene's election. It is absolutely hilarious.
Clyburn need only look to his own anti-white racism and the anti-white racism of South Carolina's black electorate for his explanation.
The only question now is how the media will avoid mentioning that black voters in Soputh Carolina picked an unqualified black candidate over a qualified white candidate jsut because of racism and skin color.
Welcome to the morality and politcs of affirmative action. Martin Luther King must be truning over in his grave.
This is a racist scandal, and no one can talk about it.
This is what affirmative action's logic and identity politics have done to us.
Jim DeMint scared much?
Black racism is allowed because of historical white racism. This is verboten.
Ann's asking about the wisdom of the Demos in going after Greene, I think, sees the PR fallout ("they only want (what the Demos and their Leftist running dogs called Condi)"), but the issue, from the Demos' POV, is damage control. The number of sleazy types already running under their standard (I speak loosely and wait for a crazed Alpha's links) and the desire not to be tarred with someone else, if avoidable, may be looking like a vital one to the DNC. Christopher Dodd and a lot of his friends may be retiring one jump ahead of an investigation, but Slobbering Barney and a great many more are still running and their records will be a big issue this fall when control of Congress is at stake. I see her point, but there is another way of looking at it.
There's also her question about whether any of us would call a cop because "another adult asked us to look at a pornographic picture". Well, the acronym, NSFW, is out there for a reason. If you showed a porn picture to Gloria Steinbrenner or one of her Ms magazine comrades (especially several decades ago), would they not have tried to bring the full weight of the system down on another male chauvinist pig (remember that one)? This was a cornerstone of hard core, hard Left feminism, and probably still is for many who burned their bras.
It may not be in the Demo's interest to call attention to this guy (the porno thing is a return to those thrilling days of Willie, after all), but, again, they seem to feel they haven't got a choice.
If he contributed to the savings bond program like many servicemembers do, he could easily have saved 10k. Improbable maybe, but not implausible.
Is it really that difficult for the media to understand how he won?
To me it seems like a rather simple combination of indifference, laziness, and identity politics:
1) Indifference (Unknown candidates)
-Yes Rawl actually campaigned, but as near as I can tell nobody really cared. Neither Greene nor Rawl were dazzling the electorate, so it was likely that a sizable chunk of the voters were simply voting for any Dem.
2) Laziness (Greene's name came first)
-If they put the names of the candidates in alphabetical order then Greene's name would appear first. Assuming that the voters were merely voting for the party rather than the candidate, this would put Greene at a distinct advantage.
3) Identity politics
-Greene is black, and so are a large number of S. Carolina Democrats. Judging by the racial split in the 2008 primaries in SC it seems likely that such concerns play a significant role in voting habits.
he didnt just ask her to look at porn; he some how managed to sneak on to the SC campus, and said to the young woman 'lets go to your room now'.
i think most students and most parents would want him prosecuted.
lucid said...
Greene won the primary because black voters in South Carolina choose to vote for a completely unqualified black man over a qulified white man simply because of skin color. Greene is black. His opponent is white.
The SC ballot doesn't list a candidate's race or feature a picture.
Since Greene didn't campaign or make appearances, how did the voters know he was black? Hmm?
"Is it in the Democratic Party's interest to hound this man?"
It would certainly make their Republicans-are-racist meme more interesting when they bring up Republican dissatisfaction with Michael Steele.
wow. you left out the best part of his response to the question that a lot of people are asking ...
Then, he had a question of his own: "Can I get paid for this interview?"
good heavens. such an embarrassment. i wonder what will become of him after he loses this race.
jayne cobb, dont forget this was an open primary.
it wouldnt surprise me if republicans who had heard of Rawl decided to vote against him ...
The Demcrats are a bunch of libtards.
Then again, given how pathetic the attacks in South Carolina have been to Nikki Haley, the Republicans are rather pathetic too.
This whole thing beats the shit out of me--the only way to explain appears to be some sort of consipiracy theory, but when you go down that road there are nothing but dead ends.
And IMO, Jim DeMint is one of the decent senators. Bottom line for me: an interesting case study in electoral politics, but in the end not much there there.
Paypal, Alvin, Paypal! You won't have to worry about money. Paypal!
If I was his campaign manager, we'd both be rich. Paypal, Alvin, Paypay!
Paypay? I'm really caught up in this, evidentally.
He made them look bad.
When analysing this event, remember that in the South there are educated for generations blacks with tan skin whose family claims superiority to the working black man with little education, within the black power structure. Greene is a nemesis to that system. He is to that system like Jefferson Smith going to Wsahington was to the Taylor Machine in Jimmy Stewart's famous roll in the Frank Capra movie. That is still a relevent movie today. It is full of Tea Party politics and Powerful Chicago style Gang politics like Blago and Obama.
@Glen--
You think voters didn't know that Green was black and his opponent was white?
Surely you're joking? You are not really stupid enough to make your argument seriously?
Clearly, you are desperate to avoid the obvious narrative about the racism of the black voters in South Carolina.
But in case you are stupid enough to make your argument seriously, I will point out to you that they have newspapers,televison stations, and barbershops in South Carolina, and that primary voters tend to be highly politically motivated and aware.
You really should look at your own motivations and your own racism in trying to avoid the obvious interpretation here.
He did not campaign at all, has no web presence of campaign staff, and has no history of interest in politics. I'm no conspiracy theorist but that is at least suspicious.
"I'm really caught up in this, evidentally."
Evidently you are.
;)
lucid-- 538.com looked into the race issue and found race was not a predictor.
I was sick the day that they taught us how to spell in school.
Army money saved up by Greene, or a loan from a friendly GOP activist like Fiorina. Either way it is not illegal anymore than viewing pornography is illegal. Everybody is just jealous. Theresa Heinz is rumored to have lent money to John Kerry, as I recall, and she was pornography in real time.
In 1992, Republican operative Rod Shealy was convicted of hiring an African-American fisherman to run for congressional office in hopes of stimulating white turnout to help his sister get elected lieutenant governor.
Until I read this I wasn't sure if Obama's offering a govt job in exchange for dropping out of a campaign for federal office really should be treated as a crime.
Meh, slow day and I gotta meet my ball busting quota somehow.
What Lucid said...
His name appeared first.
Alvin is more likely a black name than white in the South
I suspect that at least half the voters in the Dem primary are black
Black racism is not PC even though Obama got 95% of the black vote.
GMay?
When I was in Nam, our pay was tax free and we were required or encourage to put a big chunk of pay away till we returned. AllenS and Roger J, do you remember that? anyway, a single combat vet then and now can come back with a chunk of cash. Enough that the Army has problems with fayal crashes of returning vets on big bikes and hot cars.
This cant be a GOP conspiracy. There is no motive. DeMint won't lose. If Greene was a plant, the GOP would have made sure he was known as black before hand and they would have picked somebody less of a loser...
It is however, very entertaining
Perhaps the Democrats felt that there was no way to beat DeMint, unless they were to fabricate a scandal and blame it on him.
A bit conspiratorial, this theory, but it does fit the way the Democrats are acting here.
@Joseph
Actually, Joseph, 538.com is now backing away from their claim that race was not a factor, as other analyses find that it was a factor.
Nate Silver will be desperate to avoid the obvious conclusion here.
I like AllenS's idea. Somebody set up a campaign committee for Alvin Greene, then solicit a PayPal moneybomb on a Drudge header ad. Raise $1 million or so. Because of the election laws, Greene will either have to spend it on his general election campaign or give it away. Hilarity ensues.
I for one would contribute to his campaign!
Hey, David Duke was denounced by Bush 41, who encouraged voters to vote for the Democrat, remember that? Maybe Obama could come down to South Carolina and campaign for DeMint.
A thought has been nagging at me since last night. If you follow the rule:
"If you want to know what the Democrats are up to, just see what they're accusing Republicans of."
Then I'm wondering where the ball is. Conspiracy theory of a different sort I know, but hell, why not drag everybody into this black hole?
Can I say black hole here?
No, check that. Obama endorsing ANY candidate is the kiss of death these days.
Maybe that's how the Democrats can save their seats in Congress -- have Obama campaign for Republicans!
@lucid, you are too much your name.
Well, my post above is not generating much traction... Ah, well. I really was curious if any minds could provide an answer... But I re-read Ann's original post and she asks: "And what kind of a criminal charge is that anyway? Asking another adult to look at a pornographic picture? Would you call the police on someone who did that? Would you want your tax money used to prosecute someone who did that? "... Well, I saw an interview that the girl gave and she said that Greene just came right up on her asking about football or something and said "look at this (porn out)...Now let's go up to your room..." So He didn't say, "Why hello there good young miss, might I trouble you for one moment this fine day, to peruse some delightfully scandalous etchings at your leisure so that we may retire to your chambers..." He basically forced her (utilizing societal norms and duplicity) to look at this stuff.
Maria - that would have been the "solution" before the primary, is what I think you meant to say.
Lucid - are you saying that SC black voters are uniquely racist? Or are you saying southern blacks are anti-white, or all US blacks are? The reason I ask is that here in the state of Alabama, as you may know, a black candidate did indeed run, and was soundly trounced. A black candidate I might add who, whatever you may think of him and his decisions, was what we might call much more highly qualified than Alvin Greene. The African Americans in our state lined up to vote against him.
BTW, The Free Times, a South Carolina newspaper, quotes one voter for Greene as follows:
"Kevin Gray, a prominent black activist and author in South Carolina, says he voted for Greene.
'When I was in the voting booth I looked at both those names,” he says. 'I’d seen Vic Rawl on Facebook before, but Alvin Greene, that name looked black.'"
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/11/who-is-alvin-greene-south-carolina-paper-fills-in-some-blanks/
No matter how this ends up, the Dems look like absolute fools here.
If they maintain the "plant" claim, questions will arise as to why they didn't vet him more closely. Why did they wait until after the election to review his credentials? Visualize the firestorm that would occurred if the plant claim was true and, would have been revealed a week prior to the election. The racial entrepreneurs would have had a field day. That would have been fun to watch.
The Dems better though some money his way for the general ( a small amount will do), or a certain segment of SC's population will not be happy.
There is clearly a racial component here and it only grow if Rep. Clyburn insists on an investigation or worse, attempts to invalidate Greene's victory. Clyburn better disappear from the media for a while, there is no upside for him or the Dems.
It would be interesting to interview people who voted for Greene. I suspect there would be not be a lot of volunteers to be interviewed.
Greene is going to achieve cult status through this.
Drill--you are indeed correct--something like a soldier's depost account--since most stuff in VN was free (unless of course you went to the steam and creams--surely nothing cavalrymen would do, mind you) you could bank most of your pay and put it in soldier's deposit--at 10 percent as I recall.
You know what else is amazing here? The "black activist" admits his anti-white racism in voting for Greene as though it is perfectly okay to think that way.
Just astonishing.
Your affirmative action dollars at work.
Re pick up lines--I had a friend who upon meeting a lady on whom he had designs would ask: wanna f**k?
Most of the time he got slapped but he was playing for the outliers. didnt cost him any drinks, movies or supper. Hi risk but with the potential for a good payout.
TDS said: "GMay?"
Huh?
I don't know if your comment regarding combat pay was directed toward me. Honestly I don't really know much about Greene's military background other than 'he served'. If he served in combat or through a few deployments, then yeah, he probably had even more cash saved up. I used to tell my guys that if they were smart with their money, they could come out of their enlistment in great financial shape. (Sadly most didn't heed the detailed portion of the advice and just pissed away their wads of cash)
My comment was just based on a servicemember that was serving stateside doing the savings bond thing. Anyway you slice it, whether he just did savings bonds, just had combat pay, or had both, $10k is not really hard to leave the service with after one enlistment, and it looks like he had 3 or 4.
But this guy doesn't seem to be bright enough to do that, hence my "improbable" remark.
Really dumb people don't spend much money
Drill,
I kept $15 a month for myself. The rest was sent back to the states to a bank where I was from. Or maybe it went to my parents who put it in the bank. I can't remember. If it wasn't for the whores, I wouldn't have needed the $15.
Gloria Steinbrenner?
"... but Alvin Greene, that name looked black."
All over the South there are Republicans running to the courthouse to change their names!
The explanation is obvious. The Democratic Party hates black veterans.
Scott, GMay,
Greene managed to complete a BA in political science at U of SC.
How "dumb" or unbright can one be and manage that?
Where are your degrees from and what in? Is it possible that Greene is smarter than you? At least educationwise.
John Henry
danielle said.. "he didnt just ask her to look at porn; he some how managed to sneak on to the SC campus, and said to the young woman 'lets go to your room now'. i think most students and most parents would want him prosecuted."
It's not hard to "sneak" onto a university campus!
Speaking of history, what about the history of persecuting black men over sexual things.
It was basically speech. Kick him off campus. That's enough. Why is this a felony?
People have mentioned sexual harassment... Sure, outlaw it in schools and in workplaces, but he wasn't a university employee. He was just a guy who made a nuisance of himself. And there's big difference between civil claims for SH and a felony criminal charge!
Someone questioned the distinction between showing a picture of a naked person and actually being naked. Come on! You don't see the difference? I've seen lots of pictures of naked people in museums, including some pretty lewd stuff.
Ann Althouse: why is it a felony? isnt that question answered by SC criminal code?
SHOULD it be a felony? Not in my opinion, but I don't get to make the law in SC
"Greene managed to complete a BA in political science at U of SC."
Since Greene comes off as dumber than a fencepost in every quote of every story I've seen, I'm now questioning the academic standards of the U of SC.
Yes, I would have him arrested! He approached a lone girl in the basement of a girls' dorm in a restricted entry building and showed her porn pictures. Luckily he didnt attack her when she left the basement. He had already been warned to stay off campus.
If schools are going to declare themselves "violence free" zones and promise safety and rainbows, they damn well should provide the means to protect these teenagers--or stop telling the lie that they are indeed safe.
Speaking of military and money, we had our own money for the Open Mess, which meant a place to buy beer, hamburgers, listen to music and other stuff. We even had slot machines. This was at LZ English, out side of Bong Son. They wouldn't accept money, except to buy these booklets. Mine says this:
1967
Amount $1.00
173d ABN. BDE. SEP.
NCO OPEN MESS
BIEN HOA-APO US FORCES 96250
NOT VALID AFTER (no date)
No. 04645
Inside the booklet there are removable (tear outs) of amounts equal to 5¢ and 10¢. I see that I have 8 5¢ and 4 10¢. 80¢ left out of a $1. I was really thrifty. I guess. I wish I had some way to show everyone this.
Still laughing. This case is too bizarre for words. Searching the web for pre-election coverage of Greene, there seems to have been little coverage.
Public Policy Polling is saying that the election is a result of "a completely random outcome based on an election in which both candidates were unknown."
PPP also stated that at the end of May "polls found were that only 4 percent of Democrats had a favorable opinion of Vic Rawl,..."
I don't buy the crossover voting claims because few people voted in the Dem primary and about 3 times as many voted in the Republican primary. I'm betting the guy Lucid points out reflects a lot of what happened. In this case, not being known was an advantage.
Looks like the Dems did themselves in.
"Speaking of history, what about the history of persecuting black men over sexual things." Better give 'em a pass then. That will work out well. He had already been "kicked off campus" for harassment - It didn't work. Better give him a pass then. That will work out well.
"Someone questioned the distinction between showing a picture of a naked person and actually being naked. Come on! You don't see the difference? I've seen lots of pictures of naked people in museums, including some pretty lewd stuff." - That was me. I'm not TRYING to be ignorant. I've seen ART in a museum too. Because I went to a museum of my own volition. But I guess everyone here is on board with me just pressing up on strangers in school settings and forcing PORN on 'em. Cool. If those are the rules, I'm Down. That will work out well. And when I get kicked off campus, Ann says I should just pick myself up by the bootstraps and go right back to the computer lab to try again.
But, at least I did get an answer, so, Thank you.
"Greene managed to complete a BA in political science at U of SC.
How "dumb" or unbright can one be and manage that?"
Poli Sci? Are you fucking serious?
"Where are your degrees from and what in? Is it possible that Greene is smarter than you? At least educationwise."
Anything is possible. Are you in high school? Because the "he's S-M-R-T smart 'cause he's got one o' them dee-grees" intelligence asessments make it appear as if you are. Given the man's inability to answer clear and easy questions coherently or intelligently, I'm estimating his intelligence off that. (See: Obama) Though that makes him appear eminently qualified for public office.
I don't give a fat happy rat's ass if he's got a masters. That just tells me he had the time and money to get his ticket punched. (See: Obama)
Oh please Ann. This is the state that produced Lee Atwater.
DeMint is a looney bird who few take seriously. He has a chance, here, to run up an 80%+ vote total if not higher. It would make him credible or at least more so than the rodent he is now.
In SC, this would make perfect sense....
Aha! I even have a Vietnamese note for 20 Dong.
Hai Muoi Dong.
Mr. Thrifty. Me and Alvin, saving our money to do stuff.
Fuck off, Clyburn!
BUT, By The Way - I am not saying I think this obscenity charge should be a FELONY. I probably would have it rated much lower than that on the criminality scale...but like the poster above said - I'm not a lawmaker in South Carolina. Now if you'll excuse me I have to corner a freshman girl in a basement computer lab and expose her to the joys of hardcore bestiality... (What's the big deal?)
If he looked like Brad Pitt or was 18 years old there would be little call for charges. I see lewdness, but a felony?
He had an involuntary discharge. That means he may have had much unused leave. He had been in for many years.
60 days of terminal leave for a spec 4, with the right BAH, would be about $6,000- $7000.
And lots of lower enlisted save up a lot of money. In fact, I knew a few who blew it stupidly as soon as they got out. One on a BMW.
"people are trying to humiliate and intimidate Greene"
Exactly. A lot of what I've seen from Mother Jones and South Carolina and the Black Congressional Caucus is a naked attempt to put this *kind* of black man in his place. He's not supposed to wear the suit or run for office, *they* are. Even though he's actually walked the walk. He didn't go to Harvard, he's been unemployed for 9 months and wants to get his state back to work.
I think he would be as good as the democrat the billionaires would permit. Which probably isn't very good, but I'm disgusted at the demand for an investigation based on nothing but this man's obvious similarity to the huge number of poor black men in his state. It's fear... the democrats have built this group up with racial politics, and they MUST keep them in their place, needy and voting for goodies, rather than an independent group.
This guy, his greatest sin is a simple focus on jobs. No unemployment benefits, not free health care, but the means to do for yourself.
I gotta say the dems dont look like the sharpest tools in the shed--they couldnt handle a butterfly ballot in West Palm Beach designed by a democrat and again apparently have no idea who they are voting for in SC--never attribute to conspiracy what stupidity alone can explain.
I'm not sure of this, but can't you collect unemployment after you leave the service if you are unable to find a job?
""Greene managed to complete a BA in political science at U of SC."
Since Greene comes off as dumber than a fencepost in every quote of every story I've seen, I'm now questioning the academic standards of the U of SC."
The next step for the press will be checking his Army records..(I'm betting he was in the Transportation or Quartermaster Corps) and his USC academic records.
Maybe some interviews with his old Army buddies and his favorite professors. Hahaha.......
What IS worse: Showing someone a video of some hardcore sex or flashing them your genitals? Since we all have virtually the same junk, neither sight is alien or uncommon unless you never get any.
You know what's shocking and virtually unseen? Someone changing their mind on politics and saying: You know, you're right I have been wrong about this. A visitor from outer space would think that was our greatest taboo.
BTW, is my avatar a felony? It's a photo of me flashing myself. Do I need a lawyer?
"The next step for the press will be checking his Army records..(I'm betting he was in the Transportation or Quartermaster Corps) and his USC academic records."
But we never got Obama's or Kerry's yet.
"The next step for the press will be checking his Army records..(I'm betting he was in the Transportation or Quartermaster Corps) and his USC academic records."
But we never got Obama's or Kerry's yet.
Check and mate.
Touched a nerve, did I GMay? I guess you are saying that you do not have a degree?
So how does it feel to be less educated than Alvin Greene? Don't know whether you are smarter than him or not. You are not showing a lot of evidence, though.
(And did you serve in the military?)
I agree that a BA in Poli Sci from USC does not make one an Einstein. However, it does show that one is not a dunce, either. He sat through probably 40 different courses in a variety of subjects. Did homework assignments and so on. Got passing grades. As I said before, you can't do that at any school I know of without a triple digit IQ.
As for me, no, I am not in HS and have not been for more than 40 years. I have a double major MBA, as well as an MS plus more than 25 years teaching experience, mostly at the graduate level.
(Also an AS in Oceanography for whatever that is worth. It was the funnest of all my education. Much of it spent underwater)
In other words, I know a bit about what it takes to get a degree in most anything from most any school.
You apparently have no idea.
John Henry
If you want to know more about me and what I do, visit www.changeover.com
Lars Porsena,
You say you are betting transportation or Quartermaster Corps.
If you would like to put a couple real dollars on that, drop me a note at johnhenry@changeover.com
John Henry
John,
I believe GMay indicated above that he served. Did you? Or were you too busy going to school?
Lars Porsena,
You say you are betting transportation or Quartermaster Corps.
If you would like to put a couple real dollars on that, drop me a note at johnhenry@changeover.com
John Henry
What branch would you suggest?
"John Henry
What branch would you suggest?"
Military Intelligence?
I spent 7-1/2 years in the Navy.
I was an MM1 (E-6) when I got out.
John Henry
I love the way this guy talks. He's a crack-up.
he should definitely be a pitch man for something - other than himself.
Lars,
that is what the news reports and Wikipedia say.
That he was an intelligence specialist.
I believe that his rank on discharge was "Specialist". I've never been clear on the Army rank system but Wikipedia says that is an E-4.
John Henry
Danielle,
They very well may have, but Greene still got 60% of the vote. So unless a significant percentage of the votes cast for him were by Republicans he would still have won.
And even if the numbers were there that would indicate a major collapse of Democratic support within SC.
According to Mother Jones: "He had served as an intelligence specialist in the Air Force and later as a unit supply specialist in the Army."
That's quite a big difference in MOSs between the services.
MI..Intelligence Specialist....LOL!!
ROFLMAO!!!
"I believe that his rank on discharge was "Specialist". I've never been clear on the Army rank system but Wikipedia says that is an E-4.
13 years in and a spec 4..what's wrong with this picture?
Seriously, someone needs to peek at his DD 214.
Oh, we loves us some articulate on this blog, we surely do! But "inarticulate" does not necessarily imply "unintelligent." Mr. Greene is but a publicist away from fortune and fame! Can you say the same?
Speaking as a Colonel Blimp here, the term specialist is a generic term--One can be a specialist from the grade of E4 to E9. That a thirteen year veteran would be a specialist 4th class seems a bit unusual to me. And the term "intelligence specialist" refers, I suspect, to his military occupational speciality and not necessarily his rank.
Wikipedia does have its limitations.
And I will defer, of course, to any person who served after I retired in 1986. They will know much more than I about the army.
Lucid - "Welcome to the morality and politcs of affirmative action. Martin Luther King must be truning over in his grave."
One of the great stupidities of conservative whites is their embrace of Saint Martin Luther King over one throwaway quote he had about "content of character"...in which they ignore the real Saint Martin's actions...which was about quotas.
MLK repeatedly protested, boycotted so that not only would blacks be hired into government jobs, or elected office...he argued that positions needed to be filled at least in racial proportion to the population.
If Memphis was 40% black, then King argued that it was "injustice" that 40% of judges, cops, bus drivers, and city hall secretaries were not black. If Memphis was 40% black, "true equality" meant that 40% of elected officerholders should be black.
Moreover, MLK and his followers demanded racial parity in pay. So not just a racially balanced workforce in cities, but where the average black salary was equivalent to the average white one.
And the message from King, through his aids was that it was imperative for blacks to help bring that Blessed Day about "by voting for your own people" and by working with white officials as well for "racial justice in hiring".
So the Civil Rights movement endorsed black racial tribalism in self-interest through the vote - while agitating against any white racial tribalism - "vote for the white guy like you!" as racist and immoral. (The GREAT WISE LEADERS of the Civil Rights Movement were hardly rocket scientists...but their hypocrisy was endorsed by the progressive Jewish dominated media of the day, and still is 50 years later..though Jews as 'uplifters' of blacks are no longer truly dominant in media)
Blacks still vote 90-97% for "any black candidate" over any white/hispanic one - and still bitterly complain when whites or hispanics "don't vote for the better black man over the less qualified (in their opinion) white or Hispanic.
So whenever you hear a white conservative spouting their one and only favorite Saint Martin quote about "content of character, not color of skin" - laugh at the fool...
It is a common conceit of the educated to confuse "articulate" with "intelligent" - oh, how we have been fooled - but neither is proof of wisdom.
Hey Crack,
Did you see the report on TV last night about the James Ray sweat lodge tragedy?
Damn, what people will pay money for! How anyone could buy that crap from that guy is just beyond me.
On topic: I don't have a college degree, but I bet most of the people in that sweat lodge did.
C4: you will be gratified I am sure to know the Memphis and Shelby county reflects your (very accurate) description. Now I was wondering how you were going to bring progressive jews into the mix, but you managed with your usual panache.
As to MLK's statement (content of character), I am not concerned that MLK may have been a scum bag; nonetheless I think it remains a very decent metric for human interaction.
bags: it has been my observation that intelligence and education are only loosely correlated.
Sergeant Blimp here,
"Speaking as a Colonel Blimp here, the term specialist is a generic term--One can be a specialist from the grade of E4 to E9...
Sergeant Blimp here,
They abolished all the 'Spec' ranks except Spec 4 some time ago..so this guy was not say a "Spec 7".
I don't think we have the whole picture..and that goes for his academic record.. I smell 'social' promotion...it goes on even at the college level. He's the perfect symbol for our contemporary government and educational system.
Your tax dollars at work.
C4,
I'm no expert on MLK, but did he actually call for quotas or did he simply hope and suggest that the parity would come from judging people by their character, assuming minorities were only being held back by racism?
It seems obvious to me now that culture is more important as a roadblock today, but MLK likely did not see that then.
Lars--thanks for the update! much appreciated. Clearly my "data base" is very much outdated. Now what do you want to know about Viet Nam? You do know the difference between a fairy tale and war story? a fairy tale starts "once upon a time..."; a war story starts, "this is no shit..."
John said...
I spent 7-1/2 years in the Navy.
I was an MM1 (E-6) when I got out.
John Henry
=====================
Sounds like a Navy Nuke...
For GMay's benefit, one of the elite branches of Armed Forces where the enlisteds are on a rough par with officers in terms of intellect.
Met a few doing Masters work in Virginia with a number of officers and Fed drones. Very smart.
A Corporal? Sounds like he got busted down. Bet it fits his pattern of sexually harassing the coeds.
As a former Marine, I don't understand Army specialist ranks, but "unit supply specialist" sounds alot like the supply clerk that keeps warehouse inventory updated on Amipro or Excel.
Nothing wrong with that - Logistics is an Angry God and these guys are unsung heroes for keeping my STA team supplied with ammo, food, water, parts - but its quite a jump from AF Intel.
One of his MOS's is either understated or overstated. Blackfive may know.
Hey Fen--I was prepared to give you a dissertation on specialist until lars grabbed me by the stacking swivel--will have to let him fill you in.
I guess "unit supply specialist" could also be the guy who puts together the Warning Order for each Convoy Op. But I don't think the Army gives its NCOs that much authority.
I also thought the "specialist" designation took you off the NCO leadership path?
Any Army guys want to correct this Marine's ignorance? ;)
Roger:
"...You do know the difference between a fairy tale and war story? a fairy tale starts "once upon a time..."; a war story starts, "this is no shit..."
The guys out at Ft. Bragg still start their stories with "this is no shit"....a classic that transcends eras...
LOL Roger. Okay.
But I think that means you buy the drinks next time.
Cedarford,
Good guess.
Yes, I was a nuke. I went to classroom (6 months) in Bainbridge Md in 1968. A ship that had been scheduled was cancelled and I was sent to a regular ship. Never worked as a Nuke or did the prototype (6 months) training.
Side story:
I was engineering manager for a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant from 76-85. In about 83 I attended a national pharmaceutical engineering conference. I wound up going out to dinner with a group of other engineers from other plants. I knew one, he knew another and so on. Most of us had never met most of the others.
During dinner we got to chatting and almost all were ex-Navy. Of the group of 8, 5 were ex-nukes. One of them had been an instructor of mine in 68.
John Henry
Fen: come to Memphis and you are on--I have a soft spot in my heart for Marines--My marathon training partner in EUCOM was a marine: Mike Vidos. We probably put 2000 miles in with each other. Ran the Greek and Frankfort marathons together. Marines are OK.
@cedarford
interesting post about mlk. i guess ihave been influenced by shelby steele's work, and i associate mlk with Steele's perspective--but perhaps incorrectly, to some considerable extent.
bagoh20 - "I'm no expert on MLK, but did he actually call for quotas or did he simply hope and suggest that the parity would come from judging people by their character, assuming minorities were only being held back by racism?"
King did not call them quotas, but when he and his followers demanded that municipal employees "match" the population of the city in the name of racial justice, via strikes and boycotts - Saint Martin was setting affirmative action precedence.
He wrote:
"“It is impossible to create a formula for the future which does not take into account that our society has been doing something special against the Negro for hundreds of years. How then can he be absorbed into the mainstream of American life if we do not do something special for him now, in order to balance the equation and equip him to compete on a just and equal basis?”
Cedarford said MLK's use of the phrase "content of their character" was a throw away line by D. King. What did he mean by the use of it then?
I submit to you if the people of this country, used that line as a basis for most important decisions (e.g. election choices, spouses, hiring ), the country would be better served.
Luckily he didnt attack her when she left the basement.
"Luckily he didn't attack her" is something we would say about a dog or a mountain lion. People presumably choose whether or not to attack. Luck has nothing to do with it.
Was the girl afraid? Quite probably, yeah. But you can't say "oh my god, he could have attacked her!" and then use that as a reason for prosecuting him. I have several guns; I *could* shoot anyone who comes near my house. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be arrested for that, though. We don't charge people for crimes they could potentially have committed, we charge them for the ones they did.
Entering a dorm, showing someone porn, asking them for sex. Which of these makes sense as a felony? I see two misdemeanors here, three if the "asking for sex" continued to the point of harassment. But where's the felony? It can't be obscenity unless the porn itself was legally obscene, can it? Most porn isn't.
Heh. I'm now stuck in a loop, remembering all the times our Company GySgt ran blackmarket ops. One of the signs of a good Gunny was that he could get the unit anything it needed, anytime.
We had a much-needed and new LAV-25 engine magically appear in the maintenance bay one morning.
BTW, I managed to destroy 2 LAV engines and 1 generator due to improper PMCS. Your tax dollars at work. Sorry guys.
And a bank of Singar Radios. Ouch. Almost forgot about that one.
C4: you will be gratified I am sure to know the Memphis and Shelby county reflects your (very accurate) description.
While it is true that the Memphis is currently run by racist black politicians, it is worth noting that they replaced a bunch of racist WHITE politicians. Memphis politicians have been nasty, venal and stupid for a very long time indeed. :)
One of the great stupidities of conservative whites is their embrace of Saint Martin Luther King over one throwaway quote he had about "content of character"...in which they ignore the real Saint Martin's actions...which was about quotas.
And Thomas Jefferson wrote "all men are created equal" while keeping slaves.
The nice thing about moral truths is that they remain true even if the person expressing them doesn't personally follow them. That is why Americans of ALL political stripes regularly cite Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech. King himself was a deeply flawed man who was wrong about quite a few things -- but he was RIGHT about human equality.
If conservatives (or libertarians, or liberals) had to restrict themselves to quoting only those people who always practiced what they preached, we'd never quote anybody at all. Even Jesus whupped some temple-moneylender ass every once in a while. :)
""How then can he be absorbed into the mainstream of American life if we do not do something special for him now, in order to balance the equation and equip him to compete on a just and equal basis?”"
Sounded good, but it's still unequal and it leads to this:
"While it is true that the Memphis is currently run by racist black politicians, it is worth noting that they replaced a bunch of racist WHITE politicians."
Not really progress unless you're a racist.
God dammit! Race again. "I try to get out, but they pull me back in."
Yup. Churchill was an alcoholic and a chauvinist. The real kind that believes women are next to useless. And his mindset was of an earlier era: colonial management of the Empire's "primitives".
But without him, the West would have descended back into the Dark Ages.
This is no shit ... I went to An Khe once with $20, and left a very happy man.
Rev--while memphis has been a political cesspool, mainly kept stirred by by the scummy willie herrenton, the new guy, AC Wharton seems to be doing a good job.
And you are correct: The excrebal Boss Crump embodied the worst of american southen racial politics--and btw: he was a democrat--who knew.
John tried: "Touched a nerve, did I GMay? I guess you are saying that you do not have a degree?"
Touch a nerve? Nope. Made a lame argument? Yep.
Made an even worse inference? Heh. You could say that.
"So how does it feel to be less educated than Alvin Greene?"
Let's assume for a moment that I am. (Arguments by assumption are sooooo strong aren't they?) I would probably feel just as peachy as I do now. Probably better because I would think to myself that a degree is clearly a waste of money based on this guy's intellectual exhibition. Well, at least a degree from U of SC.
"Don't know whether you are smarter than him or not. You are not showing a lot of evidence, though."
Ooooo, zing! I wish I had your unparalleled ability argue by assumption, because goddamn you're smart!
"(And did you serve in the military?)"
Well I'd think someone of your big brainedness could have figured that out had he actually read the thread. Gosh you're smart!
"As I said before, you can't do that at any school I know of without a triple digit IQ."
Sure you can. You obviously did.
(I love argument by zinger too. I can do this all day)
"As for me, no, I am not in HS and have not been for more than 40 years. I have a double major MBA, as well as an MS plus more than 25 years teaching experience, mostly at the graduate level."
Touch a nerve did I? At this point I should make some poor inferences about you and proceed to argue by shitty assumption.
"You apparently have no idea."
You apparently haven't run into enough idiots with degrees. You have been blessed, if not sheltered.
"If you want to know more about me..."
Couldn't care less actually.
Cedarford said: "For GMay's benefit...
Thanks Cedarford, but 20 years in the Corps gave me plenty of insight into the intellect of Officers and Enlisted of many service occupations throughout our armed forces.
I doubt your anti-semitic ass could provide any benefit for me on any level.
John: Having had a look at your resume on your website I have a word of advice: don't brag about your educational achievements. On the other hand I can see why you might find that Mr. Greene might be someone you would enjoy a long chat with.
By the way, GMAY is a much better writer and rhetorician than you.
Alvin Greene has more education than myself, but that doesn't make him smarter. If he was smarter he would have a Paypal account. He's in need of a good campaign manager. Me. And that's no shit.
I personally would vote for Alvin in a New York Minute. I bet he would represent my interests much better than Chuckie Shmuckie Schumer and his flying monkey Kristen Gillinditto.
He's a vet and a working man. He's been unemployed. He has a life experiance that is not represented at all in the halls of Congress.
Roman Hruska was right.
And I am totally serious.
Trooper,
If he had a Paypal account, would you hit it?
Absolutely. A lot quicker than I would hit Angelina Jolie that skinny twat.
I think someone like Alvin has a lot better prespective on what real life is like than Ivy league cunts like the Big O. He has been down and out. He had to eat a lot of shit in the Army I bet. Made mistakes. And got screwed over.
But he served his country and is just as entitled to run for office as any Ivy league scumsucking demon spawn lawyer douchebag who just happens to have the last name of Kennedy or Biden or Gore or Ford or Cuomo or what the fuck.
And that includes Bush or Romney for that freakin matter.
And don't start with that porn bullshit. He didn't drown a girl or make a waitress sandwich or stick his cigar in her twat.
Well, I think the hopeful lesson of 2010 is that more of the "little" people who are more apt to represent their constituents (instead of start running for president from day one) can get into politics and maybe beat the lock-step, dry-rot, partisan-poisoned incumbents and legacy candidates... maybe...
...and, yeas, I know most politicians will still be super-rich and/or legacy candidates; but I'm trying to put a positive spin on this... If this guy could win... I mean how many vets with college degrees are there in his district alone who could put together a more coherent campaign / platform / etc.)Lots I'm guessing.
Finally a candidate who truly is not establishment, or even not of the fake non- establishment. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat for all of the reasons Trooper has outlined. The tea partiers should flock to him, isn't he what they want?
As for the porn I don't get it. College girls need to toughen up. Is this chick going to charge every guy who wants to show her his dick and says so?
Trooper ...
"Ivy league scumsucking demon spawn lawyer douchebag who just happens to have the last name of Kennedy or Biden or Gore or Ford or Cuomo or what the fuck.
And that includes Bush or Romney for that freakin matter."
The sentiment is appreciated. The one on the list that might be an exception is Romney...who was a brilliant student who finished in the top 5% of his Harvard MBA class and upper 1/3rd at Harvard Law. (did both at the same time) And who made it big in a field different than his Dad's, all without Romney Sr's help. The other spawn were like their daddies - in politics since adolescence. Both Romneys were in business decades before they thought about getting in politics.
"And don't start with that porn bullshit. He didn't drown a girl or make a waitress sandwich or stick his cigar in her twat."
FTW.
My real problem with the guy, all snark aside, is his character of service. I don't care about the guy's academic achievement (obviously), but his performance.
I thought I read here or somewhere else that his discharge was less than Honorable. If he came away from 13 years as an E-4, I'm guessing he's looking at an Other Than Honorable discharge (which I'm not sure how it might affect his eligibility for office now that I think of it...wonder if there's something there). Any opponent should definitely be after a copy of that DD-214.
Hell, if he was just incompetent I doubt he'd have been discharged at such a low rank. I'd bet a paycheck there's some UCMJ action in there. I know the Marines has High Year Tenure for the lower rank system, but I'm unsure about the other services. I don't think they hang onto E-4s that long.
Looking at these new allegations and the probability that his character of service was most likely poor, that makes me want more info before I'd vote for the guy.
Fair enough Gmay but the dude would have to rape the Generals dog before he qualify as a Kennedy.
Just sayn'
Does anybody else think Alvin is a former "special needs kid"?
He spent a fair amount of time in the military, and did not manage to get many promotions. In fact I bet all of his promotions were automatic time in rank ones.
He is not very articulate to say the least. Watching him speak very definitely reminds me of my students in special education.
The incident on the college campus could have been just an inept attempt to proposition a potential date.
It would not be out of the realm of possibility for such a person to decide to run for Senate if he had the money.
When you change service branches, you lose one level of rank. He was probably discharged for failure to progress. There is a limit to how long you can stay in at E-4. By switching branches, he could have caused himself this problem and have been a perfectly satisfactory troop. At E-5, you can stay for 20 years and draw retirement.
"And don't start with that porn bullshit. He didn't drown a girl or make a waitress sandwich or stick his cigar in her twat."
Those benefits come with winning in the general election. Maybe that explains his running for office - he's horny and tired of rejection.
ken in SC,
You don't automatically lose one rank when switching services. It does happen, but it's not a foregone conclusion.
And I can only speak definitively on the Marine side of the house and say that you are never going to see someone ride E-5 to retirement. I remember when the Navy used to do that, but I'm fairly certain they stopped doing that by the early 90s.
While my exposure to the Army and AF was more limited, I never saw an example of an E-5 coasting to retirement. Not saying it doesn't or can't happen, but that's gotta be awfully rare.
Now you've got me curious. Time to go digging through regs online. I suppose it's not impossible that this guy's service is clean, but again, experience tells me this guy was probably a dirtbag. I'd like to see more info.
Well shut my mouth, apparently the Air Force doesn't have a problem keeping E-4s and E-5s around for-ev-er, and the Army only slightly less. How the hell those branches get away with that is beyond me.
Welp, ken put some learnin' to me and that'll teach me to talk about an Army and Air Force promotion system of which I am apparently near clueless.
If Greene's discharge was OTH, I'm still really curious about that. Especially if I'm a voter or opponent.
danielle said...
he didnt just ask her to look at porn; he some how managed to sneak on to the SC campus, and said to the young woman 'lets go to your room now'.
i think most students and most parents would want him prosecuted.
As odd as this may sound coming from me, but asking someone to look at porn isn't illegal if they are over 18, which this girl was. Then asking her to go up to her room now is still not illegal.
The only questionable issue at this point is his being on SC campus. Maybe. Outisde of that, you leftards have a serious problem on your hands. Buh-bye now.
All kidding aside, this is not a good sign. A U.S. Senate seat is 1 of 100 of the most elite decision making positions for the most powerful nation that ever existed. Now, admittedly those seats have been dishonored plenty in the past, but a person like Mr. Green who is entirely uninformed, unmotivated and unsuited for this office, should not be in the running as 1/2 of the choices available for voters in November. As a nation we need to be taking these jobs much more seriously.
I was about to say that such a thing would never happen in private industry until I thought about it. It does happen there too and often causes great losses to those organizations and the people associated with it (Enron, etc.).
Our culture needs to accelerate it's movement away from cronyism, nepotism, minority preferences, and everything else that short circuits meritocracy. And I don't consider educational degrees alone to constitute merit. We need proven leaders, not place holders.
Mr. Green's selection should be a wake up call for people to pay attention. Voting is a responsibility, not entertainment. This is not American Idol. Our leaders have been making some really stupid mistakes lately and when you look at who they are and how fit they are for their responsibilities it's not surprising. We are not choosing our best and brightest for our most important jobs and certainly nobody thinks our most ethical.
"That's the question here. How did Alvin M. Greene, an unemployed military veteran who lives with his father, come up with the $10,400 filing fee for the Democratic Senate primary he won Tuesday?"
We really need to go back to the LEAD-IN paragraph and the BURNING question of this article in the Washington Post. The WASHINGTON POST, for cripes sake.
Total AMAZEMENT that someone unemployed and living with a parent had, OMG, savings!!!!
It's almost as if there is an assumption that says, "This is America! Every dollar we make, we spend!"
Now does anyone really believe that was the BURNING question? For shame WaPo! Major fail, and on so many levels.
This Greene story is bizarre from beginning to end, but let's question him for having savings?
The Washington Post ought to be writing articles asking why more of us in the United States DON'T have savings. It's one of the major reasons this country is in trouble.
If they want to write an article about Greene, and of course they should, wouldn't you wonder how much this Democrat was either consciously or subconsciously affected by the tea party movement?
Then there's the question, why would anybody give Alvin Greene $10,000 to run? Doesn't that sound like a stupid thing to do? Who would have thought that he would have won?
Now we have Obama saying that he can't swim down to plug the hole and he can't use a straw to clean up the oil. Who would you rather have handling the oil spill problem, Obama or Greene?
Let's see.....a black man who is also a military veteran, wins a primary election, running as a Democrat, no illegal fund raising, no back-room deals, no rich friends doing real estate deals for his betterment, no marriage-for-money, and no mega-campaign budget.
The result is that the powerful white people in the Democrat party think he's a joke and want his campaign to be ended, one way or another.
Liberal racism, nothing less. Might as well be the KKK, for all of its pleasantness.
I think the Dems are pissed because:
1. he is not "their guy". And we see what kind of intercine political wars are going on over who is and is not "their guy" right now. Power Mavens like power (go figure) and blogger/pundits who think they have power like to think they have power. 2. He appears stupid in media interviews (i.e. "in-eloquent"). Simply put, he isn't "polished". And that's true. He isn't. He has not been groomed for this role the way so many other politicians black or otherwise have been Obama; but really, with the advent of Obama, our supine Eloquence-in-Chief, and his flailing performance. I think many Americans are second guessing the importance of this attribute overall. This could be good or bad, maybe really bad. But still...
I said a prayer for Alvin today at Mass and lit a candle to St. Jude for him.
I think the Democrats and the mainstream media will try to destroy him and I don't know if he can handle it like Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin or some of the other people they set out to destroy.
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