Althouse: "The way that underwear is being sold in Saudi Arabia is simply not acceptable to any population living anywhere in the modern world."

February 25, 2009

"The way that underwear is being sold in Saudi Arabia is simply not acceptable to any population living anywhere in the modern world."

"This is a sensitive part of women's bodies. You need to have some discussions regarding size, colour and attractive choices and you definitely don't want to get into such a discussion with a stranger, let alone a male stranger. I mean this is something I wouldn't even talk to my friends about."

25 comments:

Mr. Forward said...: I once knew a girl from Arabia

Who when asked would sometimes say "Maybe, yeah".

When she took off those clothes

She had purchased at Mo's

I'd be looking at a beautiful label.; 2/25/09, 5:34 AM
Issob Morocco said...: Inshallah Bukrit Malesch!

IBM is the classic Arabic phrase for (paraphrased here)"In Allah, I believe, so therefore I don't worry.". Too bad the Wahabbi's don't ascribe to that thought as it insightful, wise and telling.

Makes one wonder why the Clinton's were cozying up to such repressive countries like Saudi Arabia for money?

My idea would be to hold a convention of the Perpetual Vice and Purification Squads at some location in the Hajj and then call in an airstrike, like we have never seen before. Let them personally meet their maker and see if they are truly following his orders to a Tee or a Camisole for that matter!; 2/25/09, 5:44 AM
Ron said...: I thought for a second this was another Titus post...but I saw clumpers were not mentioned and I felt safe...; 2/25/09, 6:00 AM
George M. Spencer said...: Handy Clip 'n' Save Guide to Saudi Arabia

1) "Saudi Arabia" means "Arabia of the Saud Family."
Imagine "The United States of Washington," and you get the idea.

2) Imagine what would happen if a sect of snake-handling xenophobic fundamentalists from a barren wasteland came into unimaginable wealth. (Also, imagine Jesus with a sword leading an army.)

3) Imagine what would happen if the Sioux nation had the same good fortune.

4) Mix numbers 1, 2, and 3: A tribal theocratic monarchy.

5) Remember that the performance of physical labor is beneath contempt, because you come from a Stone Age nomadic culture in which women did all the manual labor, and foreign slav, er, workers can be hired to do those jobs today.

6) You can have up to four wives. But you can't "see" women publicly, i.e. dating, so there is tons of homose-, er frustration.

7) Extra money? Send it to Afghanistan and Pakistan which has its own barren wastelands and primitive denizens.

"Despite spending roughly $32 billion annually on all forms of education, in 2007 Saudi Arabia ranked very poorly in science and even worse in math (54 out of 56 countries) in testing conducted by the International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement. Saudi education officials say 140,000 boys graduate from high school each year and another 80,000 drop out. Even those who complete university have difficulty finding jobs; unemployment among young Saudis is estimated at 30%." Karen Elliott House, yesterday's Wall St. J.

(Headline is--"Saudi Cabinet Shake-Up Portends Real Reform." Sure.)

The Saudi government has been trying to Saudi-ize its labor force since the 1970s. It hasn't worked, and it won't, any more than you could have gotten Sioux braves to work in a factory in 1870.

Incidentally, Pres. Obama has appointed to head the National Intelligence Council one Charles Freeman the former (?) president of MEPC, the Mid East Policy Council, a Saudi funded lobbying group.; 2/25/09, 6:48 AM
bearbee said...: It sure seems upside down given all the societal and religious taboos between intermingling of the sexes.

But why not try to begin to break down those taboos by encouraging women to overcome their inhibitions and become comfortable in talking to men about intimate apparel?

It is a mighty first step.; 2/25/09, 6:51 AM
Issob Morocco said...: Great White Father Geo, your last point in the otherwise stellar analysis, must be wrong as Obama said he would not have lobbyists in his government. Or is this not what the Govern-meant?; 2/25/09, 7:05 AM
MadisonMan said...: This is for Cedarford.

Come and listent to my story 'bout this man Abdul
Poor Arab man always strugglin' to stay cool
And then one day he was shootin' at some Jew
And up through the ground came a bubblin' crude

No, seriously, I see no reason why women can't sell women bras. You totally know the male sales clerk are wearing the robes they do to hide the raging hardons they get when talking lingerie to women of the unrelated kind. Okay, maybe not.

Still, the law says women can sell bras. Why not just enforce the law, Saudis? Is that so hard (heh)?; 2/25/09, 8:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Is there a reason why the women there can't start Tupperware-like lingerie businesses? Salespeople can bring the products to the homes of other women.; 2/25/09, 8:56 AM
traditionalguy said...: The ultimate prize for an Arab Sheik, or any other Middle easterner, has always been to own a natural Blonde woman. That is like our fetish for certain Sports cars. With the money, they find paradise on this earth in Merry ole England, and not one of the 70 are virgins. Since Slavery of infidels is fully accepted in the Mohammedan trained Arabian world, I would not advise Blondes to vacation there.; 2/25/09, 9:03 AM
Pete the Streak said...: Henry Buck-

Perhaps, but wouldn't the women have to hoof it, and schlep their goods around in a suitcase?

Or have women gained the right to drive recently?; 2/25/09, 9:06 AM
John Burgess said...: Henry Buck: That's been going on for decades. The problem is that the 'Tupperware' model doesn't permit much of an array of brands. Okay, I guess, if all you want are basics, but that's not the case in the KSA any more than it is in the US.

The BBC is slow in picking up this story, about a month late, in fact.

Although you might not guess it from the pig-ignorance of GWF George, the country is going through massive reforms. As they affect nearly every aspect of life, they're not simple and they're not particularly well coordinated--i.e., they're messy as hell. But they're still happening.

It's easier, for sure, to simply see the word 'Saudi' and have a circuit in your brain equate it with evil, but that's just lazy.; 2/25/09, 9:48 AM
traditionalguy said...: The day a woman has any value in Saudi Arabia is the day the Mohammedans convert to Christianity. Hold up on the women's fashions outlets over there a little while longer.; 2/25/09, 10:37 AM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Sounds like a good excuse for going commando.; 2/25/09, 11:15 AM
Trooper York said...: I just spent a whole day at Curve discussing lingerie with saleswomen while models paraded around in the latest set of bra’s and panties. When you purchase them to sell in a store how they look is only part of the equation. The price point, the amount of wear a customer will get out of it and the construction is all very important. Should you get soft cup bras or bra’s with a reinforced underwire? Should you get only thongs or a lot of more generous cuts? Brazilian cuts? How big should the bra straps be? Strapless or convertible? All the while some model is sticking her cootch in your face. Now I am as much as a horny bastard as the next guy (if the next guy is Ron Jeremy) but even I started to have my eyes glaze over after a while.

So guys, ladies underwear sales are not what you thing they are cut out to be. So to speak.; 2/25/09, 11:15 AM
Trooper York said...: By the way, we found this company that stocks bra’s up to 48M which is about the biggest bra I have ever seen.; 2/25/09, 11:16 AM
George M. Spencer said...: John--

I've always found that ad hominem attacks are counter-productive.

Please tell us about the "massive" political, social, and economic reforms under way in the Kingdom.

This is a country that is ruled by a family that takes its cuts directly off the top, just as if George Washington's descendants could walk into the Treasury and demand stacks of money. If you do a business deal and offend the wrong prince, you can be thrown in jail and left to rot. If you're a woman, you can be assaulted by police on the street. If you aren't Muslim, you can't practice your religion. If you're a Hejazi, you've watched buildings and neighborhoods be torn down because they offend austere Nejdi sensibilities. If you're a poor Yemeni laborer you can get thrown out of the country because your government has taken the wrong side of a political dispute. If you're a Shia in the Hasa, you're oppressed. If you're not an American or someone with powerful connections and you get in trouble, you're liable to be tortured and/or left to rot in jail. If you're Jewish, you ought not put that on your passport. If you're a minister, priest, or rabbi and put that on your passport, you probably won't be allowed in the country. You can even get your store raided if you're trying to sell Valentine's Day cards or romantically red products. You can also get pulled over by the police if they see you have a dog or cat in your car. Selling dogs and cats is illegal. Walking a dog in public is illegal.

Tell us about the "massive" reforms.; 2/25/09, 11:54 AM
MadisonMan said...: Troop, I'm sure your eyes did glaze over, but you weren't brought up (I think) in a culture that makes all things female a forbidden fruit that is therefore possibly desirous.

I'm curious, though: What percentage of the store owners who go to curve to talk wholesale bra purchases are male? (I[m wondering how it might compare to the Arabia of the Sauds); 2/25/09, 11:55 AM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Gee Trooper, you make a day spent in the lingerie mines sound pretty taxing. Glad you were able to tough it out. You know what they say, it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.; 2/25/09, 12:05 PM
Trooper York said...: About 50% Madison Man. Typically it is like us. A husband and wife who own a store. The buyers for big chains are usually women or gay men but small stores are where the money is for a lot of these small vendors who want to sell to the smaller locations.

You learn a lot from this process though. You know what is a top seller for us? Falsies that woman can put in the bra to get a fuller rounder look. And you know what they are called? Chicken cutlets.; 2/25/09, 12:27 PM
Issob Morocco said...: John Burgess, yes where on Earth would anyone get the idea that Saudi would be equated with evil?

Perhaps the 9/11 terrorists?

Or the funding of Madrassas in Pakistan to train more legions of dimwits ready to meet Mohammed and go on 72 dates all at once?

Maybe it is derived from all of the freed terrorist from Gitmo who are now in Yemen and Somalia?

Yes, Saudi Arabia is busting down barriers, embracing open and free society, Wahabbis on every corner making sure everyone is enjoying life the 'right' way. Get real understanding before you tred into this dune.; 2/25/09, 1:43 PM
Trooper York said...: This one company was having a big sale because they were going out of business. They tried to market some falsies in Saudi Arabia, but they called them pork medallions.

You need to do your market research.; 2/25/09, 2:22 PM
George M. Spencer said...: What is Lakshar-e-Taiba and what is its connection to Saudi Arabia?

"In Muridke, 75 miles northeast of Faisalabad, a charity affiliated with the extremist group Lashkar-e-Taiba — which the Pakistani government says was responsible for the Mumbai terrorist attacks — is providing services the government doesn't. Jamat Ud Dawah, which the U.S. Congressional Research Service calls an "incarnation" of Lashkar, runs a hospital in Muridke for the poor.

"For us, they are like a blessing from God," shopkeeper Abdul Hameed says. "In this era of high inflation, poor people can't afford to seek medical treatment, even for kids."

Even in bad times, Pakistani militant groups draw donations from sympathizers across the country and in the oil-rich Middle East; some also make money from criminal enterprises. "Their economy doesn't go down — their narcotics, their smuggling, their kidnappings," Masood says."

USA Today, yesterday.

"Lashkar-e-Taiba adheres to Wahabisim, a puritanical form of Sunni Islam that insists on literal interpretation of the Koran and is the official faith in Saudi Arabia.

Its strict discipline and sense of purpose proved popular among Pakistan's educated middle class, attracting not only youths educated in traditional madrasahs but urban professionals like doctors and engineers.

Capitalizing on such connections, Lashkar-e-Taiba is believed to have raised funds among diaspora Pakistani and Kashmiri communities in Europe. And with a wide web of connections in the Gulf Arab states, the organization declared a terrorist organization by the UN in 2005 has found financial backers there as well.

Lashkar-e-Taiba is the prime suspect in the Mumbai attacks," says Radio Free Europe.

Faisalabad and Muridke are southeast of Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan, whose government has just surrended in Swat to the northwest. The key to winning a guerilla war is to be the side that is the best provider of basic services, like sewers, schools, and hospitals. From the above, it sounds like the Wahabis are winning in the south and possibly encircling the capital.; 2/25/09, 2:26 PM
blake said...: Not a lingerie expert (sadly) but are there a lot of guys staffing (heh) Victoria's Secret? And would women in the west feel comfortable if there were?; 2/25/09, 3:26 PM
William said...: I work as a masseur/trainer at a gymn frequented by Victoria Secret models. These girls are very vapid and banal. Their conversation is all about which is best the grapefruit/cocaine diet or the coffee/cigarette one. During massage time they are alway demanding that I palp their gluts harder without any consideration for my tired hands. Despite the big bucks they make, I rarely get a tip above $50, except around Christmas. A lot of jobs look great from the outside but once you start doing them, you learn how tedious they really are. I'm thinking about going back to my old job at the tire factory.; 2/25/09, 6:18 PM
John Burgess said...: So, USA Today is an authoritative source on Islam. Good to know! I'll make a note.

USA Today, and others, neglect the very real fact of Deobandism, an indigenous form of Salafism, formed in the 19th C. to fight British imperialism in Indo-Pakistan. You might want to do a little research on them before you get all puffy about Salafis, Wahhabis, and other Islamist movements.

You might learn, for example, that the Taleban consider themselves to be Deobandis.

There's no doubt that some Saudis are still pushing money to extremists. While you distinguish that from Americans of Irish descent pushing money to the IRA through 'NorAid', you can also find the solution to that...

Issob can then work out how to differentiate the Islamic imperative to dawa from abuse of the same. And while at it, perhaps we can get a universally accepted definition of what constitutes 'orthodox' Islam as opposed, say, to various manifestations of it bedecked with cultural artifacts.

The anti-Saudi rants are so much fun because they take so little mental effort. Build a straw man and, Golly Gosh! You can kick the stuffing out of him without breaking a sweat! Plus, there's the additional effect of feeling self-righteous while doing it.; 2/26/09, 12:01 PM