Of course, the McCain campaign is thoroughly justified in taking Biden's statement and running with it, but let's give Biden a chance to defend himself. I certainly think he's being honest and believes, as Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., put it "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." I think it's is patriotic to pay our share for the civilization we get from the government that taxes us. (But let government give us civilization for the price.)
Anyway, here's what Biden is saying today:
"Catholic social doctrine as I was taught it is, you take care of people who need the help the most. Now it'd be different if you could make the case to me that by giving this tax cut to the very wealthy, everybody else was going to be better off. We saw what happened the last eight years when we gave that tax cut."Yes, don't you step down. Stand up! Stand up for American values.
He then explained his statement, first made at a rally in Sarasota, FL, two weeks ago, that asking the wealthiest Americans to accept tax hikes would be patriotic. And he added that the tax rates would still be lower than they were under the Reagan administration.
"I tell you, Democrats,” Biden said, gritting his teeth. "Don't you step down from anybody telling you that we don't value, we don't have American values. … I want this debate about values! I want this debate about American values."
By the way, would you want the government to adhere to Catholic social doctrine?
ADDED: Why does Biden only give 0.06 to 0.31% of his adjusted gross income to charity?
IN THE COMMENTS: campy said...
Theocracy! Wall of separation!Yeah. Good point. Imagine if Sarah Palin backed up one of her political opinions with the assertion that it comported with the doctrine of her church. I will wait and wait for Andrew Sullivan to denounce Biden as a Christianist.
Oh wait, he's a dem. Never mind.
Palladian said....
The government is a lot like the Catholic church: an unaccountable, mystical authority that issues unquestionable edicts from a faraway domed temple ministered over by unelected robed clerics who announce their decisions by occasionally blowing smoke through their chimneys.So maybe the dome in that "Dome" ad was St. Peter's!
Posts
412 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 412 Newer› Newest»Joe Biden thinks the Holy Trinity is ABC, CBS, and NBC.
The average taxpayer only pays about fify percent of his taxes based on tax brackets. Deductions and legal avoidance reduce taxes by one half to one third.
If you are in the thirty percent tax bracket, and you take all the deductions due you, you wind up in the twenty to fifteen percent tax bracket. Who is kidding who.
I have highlighted the important caveat there - "average taxpayers". This falls apart when you consider that most of those deductions and exemptions are already phased out by the time you get to the $250k level (married filing joint).
Also, interesting that that $250,000 figure was utilized. The Obamas together are earning roughly twice that, and apparently are struggling to pay for day care for their two kids.
Living in Hyde Park is expensive. Hell, living in Chicago is expensive. Highest sales tax in the nation, highest utility taxes in the nation, highest gas taxes in the nation, some of the highest property taxes in the nation; all brought to you by the Cook County/ Chicago Democratic Party. The party and people who own Obama laock, stock, and barrel.
A "Fair tax rate" is what percentage? ...Libs will never answer definitively.
Fund schools sufficiently? OK what should we spend on average per student? ...Libs will never answer definitively.
Taxes must be revenue neutral they say. How about trying to make govt spending neutral for a change?
And Cedarford- where did you get that $40 Trillion figure for unfunded Soc Secutity? I know it is being bandied about everywhere but it is bogus IMO.
Joe Biden thinks Padre Pio is when Tony Gwynn takes a leak
Joe Biden has a religious awakening every Saturday morning when Hay-Soos mows the lawn.
Joe Biden thinks Purgatory is a stool softener.
Joe Biden thinks...
Now that is funny.
Does anyone here think it is silly for working people or small business owners to have to hire people to do their taxes?
A government "for the people" should not have tax laws so complex that its citizens can't possibly understand them--yet must obey them, on punishment of imprisonment. Forget silly, the tax code in itself seems somehow unconstitutional to me.
Joe Biden thinks "immaculate conception" is a pristine idea.
Joe Biden thinks "the rhythm method" of contraception means putting on Barry White.
Joe Biden thinks transubstination is what you call the character that Felicity Huffman played in that crappy movie.
He really dug her though.
Joe Biden believes that benediction is a cure for stuttering.
Joe Biden thinks "trinity" is a multiplex theater.
Joe Biden thinks transfiguration is an accounting practice.
Joe Biden thinks that Immaculate Conception played shortstop for the big Red Machine.
Joe Biden believes the resurrection is caused by Viagra.
Joe Biden thinks that Immaculate Conception played shortstop for the big Red Machine.
Who we all know SUCK!
Joe Biden thinks "abstinence" is an exercise machine.
To call someone who has an investment that is worth a million dollars that will technically make him a millionaire but does not mean he has access to a million dollars.
Ladies and gentleman, it's time for the Walter Neff Comedy Hour!
A government "for the people" should not have tax laws so complex that its citizens can't possibly understand them...
A government for the people should not have any laws and regulations so complex its citizens cannot understand them.
"you meant the US literally did not like physicians much"
Your statement is indecipherable.
I meant that the US is going to nationalize medical care (some 13-15% of the econmy), just like it has nationalized mortgages and pensions and senior health care. To do that, they will have to do what every other socialist nation has done.
As a result, I predict 'bad times ahead'. Not a tough call. I'll wait out our decline elsewhere, in a land that has at least a few neurons and testicles left.
Joe Biden thinks the lives of the Saints is the autobiography of Tom Fears and Danny Abramowitz
Joe Biden believes the sermon on the mount was Obama's acceptance speech.
Joe Biden thinks "Vulgate" is an pointy-eared individual of a fictional Star Trek race known for their logic.
Joe Biden thinks Blasphemy is a brand of perfume.
Joe Biden thinks "Holy Writ" is something the Supreme Court decides.
Joe Biden thinks "Yew Sunday" is the opposite of "Me Sunday."
Joe Biden thinks "decalogue" is a stack of firewood.
Joe Biden thinks "canonization" means fortification of defenses.
Joe Biden thinks "kataphatic" is when a cat has epilepsy.
"...I remind my friend, John McCain, what he said--when Bush called for war and tax cuts--he said, it was immoral, immoral, to take a nation to war and not have anybody pay for it. I am so sick and tired of this phoniness. The truth of the matter is that we are in trouble. And the people who do not need a new tax cut should be willing, as patriotic Americans, to understand the way to get this economy back up on their feet is to give middle class taxpayers a break. We take the tax cut they're getting and we give it to the middle class." - Joe Biden
Seems fair enough.
“Ladies and gentleman, it's time for the Walter Neff Comedy Hour!"
What I mean by not having access is that they do not have the cash or cash equivalents unless they sell that asset. They could of course refinance their house to pay your draconian taxes. You don't want to admit that the people the democrats are terming "millionaires" are not Donald Trump or Rockefeller but the regular middle class person who has equity in a house or pension or some other investment he can not touch. You are not referring to the person who earns a million dollars a year. You want to confiscate the wealth of everyone who has saved and done without to redistribute it. Of course it is easier to say you just want to tax millionaires, but to coin a phrase that is a lie. You want to raise the taxes on millions of middle class Americans to draconian levels not seen since the Carter administration. I know you find that funny. But when other people realize you mean to raise their taxes they might not be chuckling.
Joe Biden thinks "heresy" is either the feminine form of "heesy" or the opposite of "theresy"
Youse guys are on fire. You created a new parlor game.
Joe Biden thinks a parlor game is what the undertaker does to make you look alive.
Joe Biden thinks Palm Sunday is when a lobbyist takes him out for steaks.
Joe Biden thinks "hermeneutics" is the slaying of a Munsters character.
krylovite, aren't you like a 20 year old college student? What the flying fuck do you even know about paying taxes?
Apparently a whole helluva lot more than you.
Seriously, I have the same academic credentials as Bush. One slight educational difference though - I attended class.
If that's a good enough academic qualification for Bush to get your vote, it should be good enough to allow me comment on a blog.
p.s. Drop the ageism crap.
Joe Biden thinks "facta dogmatica" describes a K-9 robot.
Biden may be a good Catholic, but he is not a student of Tax Law.
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
Hand, L. (1872-1961), Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935).
Joe Biden thinks "benedictus" means we're being screwed by the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Joe Biden thinks catechism means Babs n' Pelosi had a fight.
Joe Biden thinks apostasy is one of those little yellow papers you write notes on when you plagiarize something for one of your speeches.
"This civilization provider is the only one on the market."
No, the market is right now, in the election. Pick the provider of the civilization you want.
Wrong as wrong can be, Ann. The fact that more people "vote" to buy their hamburgers at McDonald's does not keep me from eating at Wendy's, nor does the popularity of Coke and Pepsi keep me from enjoying an RC Cola with my sandwitch at Rosedale Barbecue.
However, regardless of my personal choice, I will be stuck with the "civilization provider" chosen by the electorate at large. Because of the mathematics of plurality-takes all elections, a vote for "RC" doesn't even affect the margin of victory between the Big Two, and is generally considered "wasted", so most choose the evil of two lessors.
That individual choice is overridden by elections is fundamental to the difference between government and private enterprise. Pretending that it is insignificant is beneath you.
Joe Biden thinks "bond of marriage" is something issued by the Treasury Department.
Joe Biden thinks "papal bull" means just a lot of nonsense.
What I mean by not having access is that they do not have the cash or cash equivalents unless they sell that asset.
Mr. Neff, it's time for your medication! And hurry along or you'll miss dinner. We're serving pancakes tonight!
Joe Biden thinks Beatitude is when you wear a beret and go on the road to spout gay poetry.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I seem to be having trouble stopping this.
Joe Biden thinks "re-incarnation" mean adding another can of evaporated milk.
Because of our too-high corporate taxes, the number of small businesses filing as sole proprietorships has increased. Something like two-thirds of the "wealthy individuals" Biden is talking about increasing the taxes on are actually small businesses.
Businesses do not pay taxes, they collect taxes. In order to pass along "their fair share," they will have to cut back on staff and/or increase prices to consumers, i.e., us.
Joe Biden thinks a canticle is what you call Hillary’s ankle.
Please help me stop.
Joe Biden thinks "sacrarium" means pouring sugar in a fish tank.
Joe Biden thinks genuflecting can be cured with Beano.
Joe Biden thinks a catechism is what you get when you give your tabby a happy ending.
aj lynch - And Cedarford- where did you get that $40 Trillion figure for unfunded Soc Secutity? I know it is being bandied about everywhere but it is bogus IMO.
That would be from David M Walker, the Comptroller General of the United States, who recently boosted the 2006 calculated 42 trillion shortfall in unfunded medicare and social security liabilities to 59.8 trillion. He added in the costs of the current US debt, interest on debt, and projected budget shortfalls out to 2019.
It's only a matter of time until the public realizes that the government is in an increasingly dire situation and no taxes are being held in reserve to pay in the future the Social Security and Medicare benefits taxpayers are earning today."
Calculations from the 2007 report also show that the GAAP negative net worth of the federal government has increased to $54.3 trillion, while the total federal obligations under GAAP accounting now total $59.8 trillion.
This of course before news that the "unleashed, genius of the free market!" of deregulated Wall Street - may have inflicted another 5-6 trillion dollar hit on US taxpayers in bad paper, lowered home values, and generated far higher credit costs going forward.
There is a reason why moguls, powerful politicians and financiers have been in love with having working, remote "farm-ranches" in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming for the last two decades. Or remote farms in the Midwest far from urban folk like themselves - only darker.
Large fuel tanks installed, "ranch hands" with military experience? Storage warehouses...local banks fortified and safety deposit boxes modified to allow up to 1,000 pounds in weight...
It's not so moguls and financiers can realize a new love of steers, potato fields and "Open sky" they lived their whole successful lives without being near.
It's called "Plan B".
the Catholic church is already quite upset with Biden.
http://www.usccb.org/
"it's offensive when he tells lie after lie about what my faith teaches in order to defend his out of touch politics. "
I'm not jumping to defend Motormouth Joe, but I suspect he's another cafeteria Catholic like Pelosi, who goes to a Kumbayah parish with Father Joe in his birkenstocks, and really does believe this. Episcopalian-wannabe Catholics, all this tired 60s "Jesus was a Marxist" nonsense. I could be wrong, of course, and he could be lying through his teeth. It wouldn't be the first time.
"Joe Biden eats meat on Fridays."
He would in either case, wouldn't he?
"I have no problem with Obama's tax plans. They will cut my taxes. I would say they'd cut the taxes of most of the people reading here."
Actually, no. Basic cost and revenue. He's going to raise taxes on businesses. That's a rise in cost. Businesses do not pay taxes. They pass the cost raise on to the consumer. As for millionaires, the top 1% pay 40% of the taxes. Just exactly what should they be paying, since the bottom 50% pay exactly NO taxes?
The only fair taxation system is one where only those who directly benefit from a program pay for it.
And I'm curious. Do all these people who want to spend, spend, spend and spend more run their own households this way? Do they buy buy buy and buy some more until they're hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt -- and then expect somebody else (the government) to bail them out?
We all know the answer to that.
Joe Biden thinks a Doxology is Sir Archie’s little black book of his favorite tavern wenches.
Joe Biden thinks "pericope" is like a device on a submarine for viewing the surface, only shorter.
Neffy, in my example the numbers were picked arbitrarily. There is no significance to the million dollar final value of the investment. Okie dokie?
Joe Biden thinks "incense" is when you make someone really really mad.
Joe Biden thinks Extreme Unction is a Mohegan who really likes to snow board off dangerous mountains.
Joe Biden thinks "I N R I" means "this memo is about ..."
Joe Biden thinks a 'moveable feast' is carry-out pizza.
Joe Biden thinks that the “Holy See” is what Robin yells out every time Batman shows him the bat pole.
As for millionaires, the top 1% pay 40% of the taxes.
Bullshit. And you claim to be a professor?
Althouse: Trooper started a 'funny in the comments' here. Others helped.
Joe Biden thinks "interdict" is the same thing as a catheter.
Joe Biden thinks the Holy See isn't as good as the holy bee.
Joe Biden thinks the Magesterium is the guy who hears the midnight docket at the county courthouse.
Joe Biden thinks that Homily is a really homely eighteen century New England poet.
Joe Biden thinks "lacuna" is the word for a small Italian shallow bay.
Joe Biden thinks that the Latin Rite is the drugstore in Washington Heights
Joe Biden thinks "ordination" means when someone starts getting really bossy, like, "Man, that Pelosi's ordination is really gett'n to be a bitch."
Joe Biden thinks that the Monstrance is the cellar door they opened in the Adams Family.
Joe Biden thinks "finalism" means having to cram for your end term exams.
Joe Biden thinks "imputability" means one's aptitude for miniature golf.
Joe Biden thinks a Carmelite is less fattening.
Joe Biden thinks "insufflation" means to kill something with a plastic bag.
As a social studies teacher I was struck by something Obama said in his interview with O'Reilly. This post about Biden reinforced it. Obama, when asked about the higher taxes for the rich, said something like "They can afford it." And now Biden's comment about being patriotic for the higher taxes...
I remembered the doctrine specified by Mazta and class values posted below relating to criminal behavior, look close to 2, 3 and 5:
Techniques of Neutralisation
If delinquents are as much committed to conventional values as anyone else and,
furthermore, express condemnation of crimes similar to the ones they themselves commit,
why do they commit them at all?
Matza suggests that delinquents justify their own crimes as exceptions to the rule.
‘Yes, what I did was wrong, but...’
They are thus able to convince themselves that the law does not apply
to them on this particular occasion. Deviance becomes possible when
they use techniques of neutralisation. Matza identified five such
justifications of neutralisation....
1. Denial of Responsibility: it’s not the culprit’s fault - something made him or her do it.
I.e. I was pissed! It was my upbringing! It is the area.
2. Denial of the Victim: the crime in general is wrong but the victim in this case deserved
it. I.e. I Hate Whites.
3. Denial of Injury: The victim is supposed not to be harmed by the
crime. They can afford it.
4. Condemnation of Condemns: This is where delinquents argue that the accusers are
no different from themselves, for example, ‘Yeah, I was driving when drunk, but so
does everyone else’
5. Appeal to Higher Loyalties: The delinquent claims that he or
she had to do it because of some general ‘ moral standard’ for example, I could not
leave my mates (during a fight).(1)
(source)http://www.sociology.org.uk/pcdevmm.pdf
I really dislike the mentality they are using to argue for higher taxes. Does that also mean those of us below this tax line that are getting a tax break are unpatriotic?????
Biden's addicted to OPM (other people's money). But that's beside the point.
As a catholic, I want to know what is moral from Joe. I give to a number of charities, and with Joe raising my taxes I will have to be forced to cut down on my donations. Catholic to catholic - does Joe have any moral guidance to which groups I should stop giving to, because if I choose wrong I don't want to be denied communion.
Joe Biden thinks "investiture" means to wear all the pieces of a three-piece suit.
Joe Biden thinks Agnus Dei is a holiday to celebrate the actress who played Endora on "Bewitched".
Krylovite. According to the July 21 Joint Economic Committee of Congress' report, the top one percent paid 39.89 percent and the top 5% paid 60.14. See
here
And the reference please for your exclamation of BS?
Imagine if Sarah Palin backed up one of her political opinions with the assertion that it comported with the doctrine of her church. I will wait and wait for Andrew Sullivan to denounce Biden as a Christianist.
No one thinks Biden is trying to shove his religion down anyone's throat. The main reason the Religious Right is pushing Palin so hard is because they wanna push their religion on people. Evangelical leaders across the country are telling their herds that voting for Palin is what God wants them to do. One local radio pastor in my city spent some time on the air recently telling his listeners that it's okay to vote for Palin even though she's a woman (a caller had asked for clarification on the view that countries led by women are cursed), because she's not a "witch" like Democrat women such as Pelosi are -- and he meant "witch" literally. Biden is just pointing out that religious people might support Democrat policies without being Satanic. Unfortunately Democrats are forced into having to point this out.
With all that said, I don't support higher taxes, but I'm being forced to vote for Obama/Biden in order to defeat the Religious Right and to make sure Sarah Palin is not gonna be Commander in Chief when she doesn't know a goddamn thing about world affairs. I see she's crashing in the poll. :)
Joe Biden thinks "atonement" is a shipment of coin.
Sorry, bad link above. Should be
http://www.house.gov/jec/news/2008/July/pr110-45.pdf
Joe Biden thinks "agrapha" is the same thing as acharta.
The motto over Joe Biden's high school cafeteria entrance was "He knows the faith." (Fidem scit)
Joe Biden thinks "Calvinism" is a person who reads the comics in a newspaper before reading the news.
Joe Biden thinks that LoafingOaf is an insufferable douchebag.
Joe Biden thinks "chi rho" refers to a South Korean Prime Minister.
* removes pistol from drawer *
Joe Biden thinks "contumely" means being very clever at Halloween.
* calmly loads pistol *
Joe Biden thinks "Jocist" means a fan of football players, usually a high school cheerleader.
"Catholic social doctrine as I was taught it is, you take care of people who need the help the most. Now it'd be different if you could make the case to me that by giving this tax cut to the very wealthy, everybody else was going to be better off. We saw what happened the last eight years when we gave that tax cut."
LoafingOaf said...
[…]
No one thinks Biden is trying to shove his religion down anyone's throat.
[…]
2:46 PM
Using some people on the left's POV that ANY reference to religion influencing their political thinking by a public official, or candidate to public office, is an attempt to shove his/her religion down our throats; yes I believe he is trying to do so. Haven’t people cited the fact that Palin is “pro-life” to stand against her although there is no evidence that she has used her office to influence or even propose legislation on that regard?
Again, Loaf, I am using the left's methods and points of view here...
* aims pistol to temple *
Joe Biden thinks "seal of confession" is a trained sea mammal that admits everything it does.
Joe Biden thinks "rubric" is a plastic puzzle cube that is very difficult to solve or another word for a difficult problem.
} } } BANG ! { { {
It was also Oliver Wendell Holmes who defended government-imposed sterilization with the comment that "three generations of imbeciles are enough." How does that comment look these days? I'm not sure why we should subscribe to any of his aphorisms.
Joe Biden think he's going to be your new Vice President. I agree.
and with Joe raising my taxes
You make over $250,000 a year?
Stop whining Pete!
Have they done a poll yet:
"Is it patriotic to pay more taxes"
I bet it gets 30%. Loser.
"Joe Biden think he's going to be your new Vice President. I agree."
Joe Biden think he need English lesson.
Joe Biden think he need English lesson.
In good time, in good time. The finishing touches on the Re-Education Camps are being put on as we speak. Plenty of time for English Lessons. I got an inside peek at the schedules, and and it looks like you and Fen are in one of the first groups.
Krylovite. According to the July 21 Joint Economic Committee of Congress' report, the top one percent paid 39.89 percent and the top 5% paid 60.14.
Your reference doesn't say what you think it does.
Here's what rightwingfakeprof said:
the top 1% pay 40% of the taxes
He said TAXES. Not federal income taxes. Not federal taxes. Not state income tax. Not local sales tax. Not county property tax. Just TAXES, as in the sum of all taxes.
According to the CBO, the top 1% of all households paid 4% of federal social insurance taxes. On that basis should I claim that the top 1% pay 4% of the taxes? Hell no, that would be as stupid and misleading as what rightwingfakeprof wrote.
According to the CBO, the top 1% of all households by income paid about 27% of all federal taxes. That's a lot less than the 40% that rightwingfakeprof claims.
Does that explain why I called BS?
The idea that volunteering to pay higher taxes is patriotic - rather than demanding that the government cut spending because that would be treasonous, evidently - is so monumentally retarded that I'm shocked that even the usual Leftists would embarrass themselves so deeply by trying to defend it.
Yet here they are demonstrating that no matter what sort of moronic statement is uttered by Obama/Biden, they'll go to any length to defend it.
That must be some mighty intoxicating Kool-Aid...
And where is Fen anyway? He usually pops in when there is a swing in the polls. Hmmph.
Arturius said..."Business don't pay taxes on revenues, only profits."
No kidding?
Now there's a real shocker.
Why would a business pay taxes on "their "revenues?"
Keep in mind, Exxon made over 10 billion dollars...IN PROFITS...in just the last quarter alone.
Kryl--point taken; I did, in fact, assume s/he was talking about federal taxes, but your point is certainly valid if he was not.
krylovite -
The fact that you (along with other Leftists) conflate "social insurance taxes" with actual "taxes" disqualifies you from this conversation.
"Social insurance taxes" as you like to call them are, in fact, directly related to our retirement income. They are more akin to investments in a 401(k) plan: even calling them taxes is a misnomer. But then you know that. You lose the argument on actual taxes, so you want to play word games like so many Leftists do.
No one but you is buying. Time to pack up your fruit stand of crackpot economics and move on....
I love it when the wingnuts here go ape shit over any comment with which they disagree or can find some nuance to play with.
Everybody here knows full well that Biden was saying the wealthy need to step up to the plate and pay their fair share, and indeed, that would further establish their "patriotism" in a time of need or war.
Have they done a poll yet:
"Is it patriotic to pay more taxes"
I bet it gets 30%. Loser.
Have they done a poll yet:
"Do you approve of President Bush's overall job performance?"
I bet he gets less than 30%. Loser
"war and tax cuts"...was "immoral, immoral, to take a nation to war and not have anybody pay for it..."
krylovite: The ONLY polls they like here are the ones that say what they want o hear.
How about a "poll" asking if we should PAY ANY TAXES AT ALL??
Think it would come back at over 30%?
Patriotic Americans demand the US Government to cut spending to welfare idiots.
JIM says: "No one but you is buying. Time to pack up your fruit stand of crackpot economics and move on...."
Being a supporter of the Bush administration I bet you know quite a bit about "crackpot economics."
Cut spending:
* eliminate the education department
* cut welfare by 50%
* phase out SocSec
* phase out Medicare
* cut the military by 40%(there is wasteful spending)
* cut pork projects by 50%
There I've solved your budget deficit without raising taxes.
oaf -
Joe Biden was trying to twist Catholic doctrine to justify Obama's desire to raise taxes. How is that different from using religion to justify any other policy?
Answer: it doesn't. But you're on his side of the political aisle, and admitting that to be the case would require you to either: a) bash Biden the way you do others who do the same thing, or b) admit that your problem was never using their religion to justify the policy, it was the policy itself - but using anti-religious bigotry to attack the policy was the best you could do to argue against it.
I'd ask which one it is, but you'll never admit to either. But thank you for openly exposing your hypocrisy in your attempted defense of Biden. We'll be sure to take it into account as you accuse Palin of pushing her religion in your face...
alex, yes, ALL of those people who are on welfare...are "idiots."
Pass that on to the vets from Vietnam and Iraq who collect welfare.
I'm sure they'll be happy to hear how supportive you are.
Asshole.
rather than demanding that the government cut spending because that would be treasonous, evidently - is so monumentally retarded that I'm shocked that even the usual Leftists would embarrass themselves so deeply by trying to defend it.
Speaking of monumentally retarded, what progress have Bush and the republican congress made in cutting government spending? These are the guys you sent to Washington to cut spending and the size of government, right?
Frankly, I'm shocked that even the usual rightwing nutjobs would embarrass themselves so deeply by trying to defend GOP economic policies.
krylovite -
I'll take Bush's approval ratings over that of the Democrats in Congress....Pelosi and Reid have managed to drive ratings into single digits: a precedent to be proud of for sure...
I'm sure these sorts of retorts sound really good in your head before you type them, but you really should just leave them there...
michael -
This is a typical Leftist tactic. Because you don't have the capacity to argue against all the slackers and people "working the system" on welfare, you deliberately act as if alex was talking about every single person on welfare. You know that's not the case, but there you go anyway.
And you have the nerve to complain about McCain taking Obama's statements out of context (even when he doesn't)? We see how deep your concern for the truth really goes...
Hey, I have an idea. Let's make April 15 a national holiday. We can call it Patriotism Day. We can have parades, fireworks, BBQs. We can celebrate our patriotic duty to pay higher taxes to the vortex called our government.
It would be a paid holiday; more taxes. Yep, we can sit around and talk about all the good our money is doing helping the less fortunate stay less fortunate. We can celebrate all the entitlements and grants the government gives out with our money. We can show our pride in all the new social service and community agencies which employ more government workers to shuffle paper.
We can put our flags out to show how proud we are of all the money we will give to the government. Hey, maybe someone could create a lapel pin; I'll bet ole Bambi would wear one.
Then, at the end of the day, we can kick back and figure out how were ae going to be able to live out the rest of the year on less money.
point taken; I did, in fact, assume s/he was talking about federal taxes, but your point is certainly valid if he was not.
Even if rightwingfakeprof was talking about federal taxes, he was wrong. The percentage is 27%, not 40% (according to the CBO).
I don't know if there's any similar data that includes covers all taxes, including state and local. It doesn't seem likely.
Ruth Anne Adams said...
Althouse: Trooper started a 'funny in the comments' here. Others helped.
Snitcher! Your are a snitcher, you are a snitcher…
I bet you have cooties too you snitcher.
krylovite -
If you want to have a discussion about out of control government spending, I'd be happy to engage you. You'd hate my responses because there would be a whole lot of people in the D.C. area would be out of work in a hurry.
But the discussion wasn't about spending, was it? You chose to defend the idea that paying more taxes voluntarily was patriotic. The statements inherent stupidity speaks for itself, and you chose to align yourself with that level of stupidity.
Lashing out at me doesn't improve the quality of the choice you made: it was a knee-jerk reaction to automatically defend the walking gaffe machine that is Joe Biden and the idiot who thought putting such a know-it-all self-promoter on the ticket was a brilliant stroke of genius.
Don't try to change the subject. Your defense was even less well-considered than the momentary mental lapse that Biden had. If he had it to do over again, there's no way he'd say it again. But here you are defending him over and over again even having had the time to think it over, and - at the very least - keep your mouth shut on the subject instead.
So how's that Kool-Aid taste?
"Social insurance taxes" as you like to call them are, in fact, directly related to our retirement income. They are more akin to investments in a 401(k) plan: even calling them taxes is a misnomer.
Hey everybody, Jim just cut our taxes!
All that money that we pay into Social Security and Medicare? Sure, we still have to pay it, but it's not a tax anymore - it's an investment!
Hey, let me give this a try... You know the part of our federal tax that goes to the Federal-Aid Highway Program? Don't consider that a tax, consider it an investment in national infrastructure! And the part of our federal taxes that goes to national defense? It's not a tax anymore.... it's an investment in our security!
Who knew cutting taxes could be so simple?
Answer: it doesn't. But you're on his side of the political aisle, and admitting that to be the case would require you to either: a) bash Biden the way you do others who do the same thing, or b) admit that your problem was never using their religion to justify the policy, it was the policy itself - but using anti-religious bigotry to attack the policy was the best you could do to argue against it.
Biden is not on my side of the aisle. My bias has long been in favor of the GOP, but that party has lost me due to a combination of Bush's incompetence and the Religious Right having completely taken it over. The choice of Sarah Palin is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
BTW, McCain's friend and fellow Republican Chuck Hagel speaks the truth about Sarah Palin. What side of the aisle is he on? Oh, that's right, he's a "RINO". So the GOP tent is shrinking, and it ain't my fault.
I'd ask which one it is, but you'll never admit to either. But thank you for openly exposing your hypocrisy in your attempted defense of Biden. We'll be sure to take it into account as you accuse Palin of pushing her religion in your face...
I don't defend Biden's policy, as I already made clear. I'm simply saying that when Biden yaps about religion when defending his policy, no one thinks he's serving people who wanna move America closer to a Christian theocracy. He's just doing it for votes. I'm more comfy with that in a politician.
and with Joe raising my taxes
You make over $250,000 a year?
Stop whining Pete!
The last time they raised taxes on the rich, they raised taxes on the middle class. They raised the with holding rates. Everyone got a pay cut. I never, ever trust a politician who says he going to raises taxes on the rich or the high income. Bill Clinton lied to us through his teeth, just like he never had sex with all those women.
That tax increase that Clinton put in on the rich cost me over one hundred dollars a month. Guess what, when GW lowered the tax rates, I got a one hundred ten dollar a month increase. Democrats will raise all of our taxes. They are the big lie. They lied before and they are lying now.
Everybody here knows full well that Biden was saying the wealthy need to step up to the plate and pay their fair share, and indeed, that would further establish their "patriotism" in a time of need or war.
That was the lie Clinton told us. He raised all of our taxes. Believe what you want. Just grab your wallet.
Biden wants the wealthy to pay their fair share and somehow this has Jim and others in a frenzy...over his Catholic beliefs?
Ronald Reagan raised taxes six times.
Evidently some here don't know that.
Bush Sr. raised taxes, too.
You'd hate my responses because there would be a whole lot of people in the D.C. area would be out of work in a hurry.
You can fire people with blog comments?
"Guess what, when GW lowered the tax rates, I got a one hundred ten dollar a month increase."
Geeee, and just look at how well those tax breaks have worked out for the overall economy.
"And I don't believe you-know-who makes over $250,000 a year.
Joe Biden believes the Jesus was a barrio community organizer and Caesar was a farm worker.
And I don't believe you-know-who makes over $250,000 a year.
Never said I did. I know what they did before. They lied. Biden is lying to you now. They will taxes on everyone, just like they did the last time.
Bush Sr. raised taxes, too.
Try the Democratic Legislature passed a tax hike that was veto proof. He had no choice.
Joe Biden heard that a fish was a symbol of being a real Catholic so he put a picture of Abe Vigoda on his car bumper.
Democrats will raise all of our taxes. They are the big lie. They lied before and they are lying now.
Didn't Bush promise to balance the budget? Cut spending? Decrease the size of government?
Didn't Bush promise to have a foreign policy guided by humility? Didn't Bush promise to jawbone OPEC members to lower prices?
Didn't Bush promise to be a uniter? Didn't Bush promise to be a reformer with results?
Yeah dude, stick with the GOP. You can count on them.
K love, if you ever run for vice-president, I'm voting for you. Like Sgt. Joe said; Just the facts, Ma'am.
Joe Biden thinks a flat tax applies only to women without breast augmentation.
Michael said...
Biden wants the wealthy to pay their fair share and somehow this has Jim and others in a frenzy...over his Catholic beliefs?
4:15 PM
I think it is pretty obvious no one is really taking Biden to task for being Catholic. He misrepresented Church Doctrine to justify an unpopular and counterproductive idea. This creates three main issues to which people have referred:
a) the tax increase idea on itself.
b) again, "cherry-picking", misquoting and misrepresentating Church Doctrine.
and
c) the fact that a lot of people who would be up in arms were any official not from the Democratic party ever to mention their religious beliefs as guidance in a policy speech; are either mum on the fact or, like you, trying to turn it into an anti-Catholic issue.
So, yeah, that's what the thread is basically all about, plus minus some side discussion and the usual bickering and mudslinging.
Oh, yeah, and the funnies...
Jim, I employed no such "leftist tactic" and I took nothing "out of context."
Either your reading skills need honing or you're just being argumentative.
Alex called welfare recipients "idiots."
If he wanted to spell out which ones he was referring to, he could have.
There's not a single government or private program or company that doesn't have some who could qualify as "idiots," George W. Bush coming to mind, but to blanket all such recipients as such is just plain stupid.
The Republicans love to demonize those who are less fortunate, using the standard "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mantra, but as many know...there are some who do not have boots. Or that those who collect welfare or cheating the system or just plain lazy...which is certainly not the casein a vast majority of the cases.
*Yesterday Petey and I went round and round about "community organizers," with Petey yammering on and on about them ALL being useless. When I pointed out that that may be HIS personal viewpoint, but that there were those who need such assistance and guidance and wouldn't agree, he finally explained why he felt the way he did in one succinct statement:
"I'm a Republican."
'nuff said.
Joe Biden thinks he is the third senator from Pennsylvania.
As usual, the lefty trolls don't get it. Joe Biden is not a real Catholic, he just plays one on TV to get votes.
erniecu73 said..."I think it is pretty obvious no one is really taking Biden to task for being Catholic. He misrepresented Church Doctrine to justify an unpopular and counterproductive idea."
I think, based on the Catholic's handling of the hundreds of pedophiles they have serving throughout the world, and the blatant protection provided via even the Pope, the "Catholic Doctrines" are a tad hard to support or worry about.
Everybody here knows exactly what Biden was saying...this is just another right wing smearfest.
*And I love how many here imply they make enough money for any of it to even make a difference.
Joe Biden thinks a Theophany is the band the Huxtable kids started when they were in high school.
You chose to defend the idea that paying more taxes voluntarily was patriotic.
I didn't and you're full of shit.
Lashing out at me doesn't improve the quality of the choice you made
WTF? Choice I made?
Mom, is that you?
Don't try to change the subject.
Aye aye!
By the way, is it true that you have a very very very very very very very very small penis?
So how's that Kool-Aid taste?
"Attention Professor Althouse. We have a very confused, mildly retarded commenter who goes by the name of Jim lost in the comments section of your blog. Will you please retrieve him before he soils himself again. Thank you."
Joe Biden thinks MBNA stands for More Biden Nepotism Allowed.
So, you have absolutely nothing productive to say about the issue at hand, as always; just some unrelated issue to use as a shield.
You are a winner...
Joe Biden doesn't know the difference between Catholic and Roman Catholic.
The previous post is obviously directed at the 12 year old, I mean, michael.
Joe Biden thinks Simony is the excessive worship of law professors who sometimes write about the law.
Ok, every once in a while he is right.
Hey Dr K! Why do you always show up late? :o(
K love, if you ever run for vice-president, I'm voting for you.
I'm going to vote for me too!
I don't know about VP though.... it's a dead-end job.
First things first. Mayor of Myrtle Beach. Then Governor of South Carolina. What do you think of the plan so far?
Joe Biden thinks the Paschal Mystery is a detective novel from France.
Mikey,
Being a Republican has nothing to do with my thinking community organizers are useless. Also, being a community organizer is not good qualification to be president. Obama is the one who touted that experience as a qualification.
I saw what they did for almost thirty years; not a damn thing.
Hey Dr K! Why do you always show up late? :o(
Maybe he has a grown up job and is working to pay those taxes thingies instead of playing around on the computer all day?
K love- (your Honor) Can you make the tough decisions as Mayor? Can you ban books, fire troopers? Is there a hockey rink in MB? These are important questions.
Joe Biden thinks Pentecost is a line item on a budget.
Joe Biden thinks Sodomize is a car wax.
Joe Biden thinks the Fish and Loaves is a gourmet shop in Delaware.
Joe Biden thinks the font is what his dad used to do after he had beans.
I was working late. I was vetting a 12 yo bay DWB gelding. I am eagerly awaiting the chance to vet K**LOV**E.
I give a very fair and complete physical exam for 335 bucks. Blood tests, radiographs, sonograms, etc are extra.
Joe Biden thinks St. Francis is a sissy.
Joe Biden thinks a "nun" is how many bottles of Dewars you have left over after Ted Kennedy pays you a visit.
Joe Biden thinks the Pascal lamb is served with mint sauce.
Joe Biden got mad when his kids could not get into the College of Cardinals. He tried to cut off student loan programs to them.
Kryl--we are let with duelling data I guess. Not worth pursuing any further IMO. I do agree that it would be damn near impossible to determine just what the total of all taxes paid by which income cohort would be. But it would be a fascinating research exercise. With that I am outta here.
Joe Biden thinks Genesis was way better before Peter Gabriel went solo.
Are you a born conservative (or liberal?
A new study suggests that your political attitudes are wired in from the beginning.
Die-hard liberals and conservatives aren't made; they're born. It's literally in their DNA.
That's the implication of a study by a group of researchers who wanted to see if there was a biological basis for people's political attitudes.
They found to their surprise that opinions on such contentious subjects as gun control, pacifism and capital punishment are strongly associated with physiological traits that are probably present at birth.
The key is the differing levels of fear that people naturally feel.
The researchers, whose findings were published today in the journal Science, looked at 46 people who fell into two camps -- liberals who supported foreign aid, immigration, pacifism and gun control; and conservatives who advocated defense spending, capital punishment, patriotism and the Iraq war.
In an initial experiment, subjects were shown a series of images that included a bloody face, maggots in a wound and a spider on a frightened face. A device measured the electrical conductance of their skin, a physiological reaction that indicates fear.
In a second experiment, researchers measured eye blinks -- another indicator of fear -- as subjects responded to sudden blasts of noise.
People with strongly conservative views were three times more fearful than staunch liberals after the effects of gender, age, income and education were factored out.
* And this is certainly born out every day of the week...right here.
OT warning. Dr Kill: you are a vet! wow. let me ask you this. At a recent conference I had the chance to talk with the state vet of indiana who is also in private practice. During the may earthquake in Mt Vernon, IL, he said the horses in his vet stalls started acting up about 30 minutes before the earthquake struck. He also told me he had gotten emails from fellow vets about cat behavior. Assuming these vet pros observe these things, it suggests to me that animals sense earthquakes. They agreed they didnt see the same behavior in dogs initially, but after the quake, dogs clearly sensed the aftershocks before the aftershocks were recorded. Your views, sir?
Joe Biden thinks the sign of the fish is an ad for a fish taco stand.
Joe Biden thinks Allegory is Al Gore’s real name.
If the stream of inane Biden one-liners here are supposed to be funny or witty...I suggest those who are posting them stick to their day jobs...that is, if they actually have a job.
No job, are you kidding? Without a job how could I accumulate Patriotism Points.
Michael: I looked at that study; the n was 46. Not generalizable with a sample that small. The MOE is simply too great.
Michael said...
If the stream of inane Biden one-liners here are supposed to be funny or witty...I suggest those who are posting them stick to their day jobs...that is, if they actually have a job.
Hey, they are a lot funnier than all the crap your people made up and have been dishing out about Sarah Palin for the past three weeks.
That stuff is truly disgusting.
erniecu73 said..."So, you have absolutely nothing productive to say about the issue at hand..."
Actually I've said plenty, you just have a difficult time understanding the English language...probably because you "read" so many others. (Sure you do)
So, I'll post this ONCE AGAIN...because it relates directly to Obama and Biden's tax plan...and why most here should be supporting it to the hilt:
By LARRY M. BARTELS
Published: April 27, 2008
The Census Bureau has tracked the economic fortunes of affluent, middle-class and poor American families for six decades.
According to my analysis, these tabulations reveal a wide partisan disparity in income growth. The real incomes of middle-class families grew more than twice as fast under Democratic presidents as they did under Republican presidents.
Even more remarkable, the real incomes of working-poor families (at the 20th percentile of the income distribution) grew six times as fast when Democrats held the White House.
Only the incomes of affluent families were relatively impervious to partisan politics, growing robustly under Democrats and Republicans alike.
The cumulative effect of these partisan differences is enormous. If the pattern of income growth under postwar Republican presidents had matched the pattern under Democrats, incomes would be more equal now than they were in 1950 — a far cry from the contemporary reality of what some observers are calling a New Gilded Age.
erniecu73: "You' re nada pero un tonto pomposo que lo piensa sabe todo sobre todo."
And you know it, too.
Joe Biden thinks the Passion Play is sex education for kindergarteners.
roger, who knows how the study would stack up.
I just thought it was funny, and knew it would drive the lunatics here absolutely bonkers.
*There is "fear" everywhere...
erniecu: claro senor
roger, the Chinese have been corralling and watching specific animals for many years, in hopes of picking up behavior that might warn of an impending earthquake.
I have no doubt they pick up vibrations and especially sounds we do not.
During the last earthquake here in California I had a funny experience. I was on the phone with a computer tech in L.A. who suddenly became quite agitated, almost screaming there was an earthquake. I thought he was kidding, but with about 30 seconds it rumbled through my part of the state and we both started laughing...kind of.
Don't be calling me a gentleman.
Michael: at another earthquake conference we had the chinese scholars who were involved with the devastating earthquake in China--they showed us pictures in the province of frogs who had come to the surface shortly before the earthquake--this is genuinely significant because earthquakes are a no notice event. And if animals can sense earthquakes we need to devote research in that area. Has the potential to lead to predictions which can save thousand of lives. Its very significant. If I recall, chinese astrologers used to keep frogs and observe their behavior--it allowed them to predict such disasters. Knowledge is found in very unlikely sources.
Geology was one of my favorite subjects so we have plenty to talk about, but right now I have to run and pick up a dog.
michael--will look forward to chattiing as long as it isnt about politics.
During the may earthquake in Mt Vernon, IL, he said the horses in his vet stalls started acting up about 30 minutes before the earthquake struck.
When I was an undergraduate I used to work summers/holidays/weekends for a vet and we observed similar behavior from the horses.
On the topic of taxes, here is a link to historical tax data compiled by the CBO.
LoafingOaf sez:
My bias has long been in favor of the GOP, but that party has lost me due to a combination of Bush's incompetence and the Religious Right having completely taken it over. The choice of Sarah Palin is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
I'm not even a Christian (I'm not religious at all) — nor am I a member of the “Republican base” (most of whom would surely consider me a RINO), more a (small-L) libertarian — but I think your sentiment expressed above is just nuts; so much so that it's hard for me to believe you're not being disingenuous here.
Be that as it may, I've seen little or no reason to think that Palin is a religious extremist. Moreover, McCain most assuredly is not Bush, and his selection of Palin thoroughly reinforces that conclusion. Though choosing Palin did excite the Republican base, it wasn't so much, I believe, because they think Palin's an “extremist,” but because it reveals McCain's boldness and demonstrates, as I say, that he isn't Bush (whom they too are extremely disappointed in).
No, Palin's selection wasn't a matter of McCain's pandering to the religious right in my view but rather to the Hillary Clinton feminists, a group of whom, after Obama prevailed in the primaries (as Clinton supporter, writer Lynette Long's article in last Sunday's Baltimore Sun reveals), met with both Obama and McCain, suggesting concessions in favor of women that each might make in order to win their support in the general election.
Obama, even without selecting a woman as his V.P., they proposed should appoint a proportionate number (50%) women in his cabinet; this Obama flatly refused to do.
It's important for people to realize that O. thus had two significant opportunities to acquire and retain the fervent loyalty of those Hillary supporters. Even after the horribly misogynistic blast of slime that the Dem base a la Daily Kos along with the MSM spewed on Hillary and her supporters — even after spurning Clinton as his running mate — Obama arrogantly rejected the second chance her supporters (at least that group of them) provided him.
McCain, contrariwise, listened to the Hillary women's proposition (which was that he choose a woman running mate among other things) respectfully, and acted on it. According to those sources, at that meeting they enthusiastically discussed Palin with him, and the rest is (at least pre general election) history.
As Lynette Long (who herself was among those who met with Obama and McCain) put it in her piece:
“Yes, policy is important, but who decides and delivers that policy is even more important. Children incorporate many of their perceptions about gender by age 5. Little girls won't understand if Sarah Palin is pro-life or pro-choice, believes in gun control or is a member of the NRA, but they will know the vice president of the United States is a girl — and that alone will alter their perceptions of themselves.
“I have given my loyalty to the Democratic Party for decades. My party, which is comprised primarily of women, has not put a woman on a presidential ticket for 24 years. My party stood silently by as Hillary Clinton was eviscerated by the mainstream media. My party and its candidate gave their tacit approval for the attacks on Mrs. Clinton (and, consequently, women in general).
“I can vote for my party and its candidates, which have demonstrated a blatant disrespect for women and a fundamental lack of integrity. Or I can vote for the Republican ticket, which has heard our concerns and put a woman on the ticket, but with which I fundamentally don't agree on most issues.
“Right now, for me, gender trumps everything else. If Democratic women wait for the perfect woman to come along, we will never elect a woman. I will vote for McCain-Palin. I urge other women to do the same. I promise to be the first person knocking on her door if Roe v. Wade or any other legislation that goes against the rights of women is threatened. But in Governor Palin, I find a woman of integrity, who not only talks the talk but walks the walk. I can work with that. I will work with that.”
I give a very fair and complete physical exam for 335 bucks. Blood tests, radiographs, sonograms, etc are extra.
I have to pay? And no offer of drinks or dinner? You drive a hard bargain Dr K.
Obama, even without selecting a woman as his V.P., they proposed should appoint a proportionate number (50%) women in his cabinet; this Obama flatly refused to do.
I don't believe in quotas.
I give a very fair and complete physical exam for 335 bucks. Blood tests, radiographs, sonograms, etc are extra.
"I have to pay? And no offer of drinks or dinner? You drive a hard bargain Dr K."
Just be glad he isn't testing you for pregnancy as is sometimes done for a herd of cows. Dr. K will know what I mean.
I don't believe in quotas.
Yeah, I'm sure the Democratic base would think it absolutely awful. (It is Wonderland we're living in during this election season, isn't it!)
It is Wonderland we're living in during this election season, isn't it!
No kidding! McCain is running on the same platform and same promises that convinced Republicans that Bush would make a great president.
Some people are really slow learners.
----That redistribution thingy is a fallacy and a lie. There is no income or wealth redistribution.
This is quite a site, Baghdad Bob visits it!
George said...
----That redistribution thingy is a fallacy and a lie. There is no income or wealth redistribution.
This is quite a site, Baghdad Bob visits it!
Another truther heard from.
--- Even more remarkable, the real incomes of working-poor families (at the 20th percentile of the income distribution) grew six times as fast when Democrats held the White House."
It is so nice to be a liberal and make up your facts on the spot.
Real median household income rose by $4,000 in the Reagan years--from $37,868 in 1981 to $42,049 in 1989, as shown in Figure 2. This improvement was a stark reversal of the income trends in the late 1970s and the 1990s: median family income was unchanged in the eight pre-Reagan years, and incomes have fallen by $1,438 in the anti-supply-side 1990s, following the 1990 and 1993 tax hikes. [14] Most of the declines in take-home pay occurred on George Bush's watch. Under Bill Clinton's tenure, there has been zero income growth in median household income.
https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html
Income Distribution Under Clinton
Not everyone's incomes are suffering under President Clinton. While those of the less-affluent have stagnated, average income for the wealthiest Americans climbed 21 percent between 1992 and 1994, according to the Census Bureau -- something of an embarrassment to an administration which emphasized the income gap theme during the 1992 campaign.
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=13575
My dear krylovite, is it customary for you to center your photographs to call attention to your genitalia. It is quite fetching.
Under Bill Clinton's tenure, there has been zero income growth in median household income.
Hee hee. A link to a report from 1996! That report must be definitive in assessing the Clinton economic record.
Go George Go!
(Please take that literally.)
Hahaha, sorry. I should have been more specific. Vetting a horse requires a PE, vetting K love for her Mayoralty race does not.
If you become the Ruler of South Carolina, may I be the Prince of Aiken County?
I have never heard, even anecdotally, any reports about animals and earthquakes. But I am certain such a thing would be true, especially with man's best friend, the horse. Don't ask me how I know, I just do.
"Red Will" Danaher: If you've come for supper, you're late.
Michaleen Flynn: A gracious invitation, but, thank you, no.
(The Quiet Man, 1952)
King Leonidas: Children, gather round! No retreat, no surrender; that is Spartan law. And by Spartan law we will stand and fight... and die. A new age has begun. An age of freedom, and all will know, that 300 Spartans gave their last breath to defend it!
Ooops. I mean 400. Whatever.
(300, 2006)
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