The Corner says:
Maybe Sen. Obama will have a new appreciation for law-enforcement, and for the fact (which most on the Left won't entertain) that sometimes when police stop and search someone — without a warrant! — for mere erratic driving, they really do discover far more serious crime. Let's also hope the media cover this responsibly rather than framing white supremacists named Adolph as rank-and-file Republicans.It's always a good time to bash the Left, the media, and constitutional rights.
UPDATE: Fizzle.
Posts
88 comments:
Please, Lord, let these Yahoos be from up North somewhere. If they're from the South the stereotyping from the MSM will be overwhelming.
Of course that works both ways Ann. I doubt you will see any Democrats defending these guys as being unfairly charged with terrorism and victims of the Bush Administration or any Democrats worried too much about their Constitutional rights. Also they are saying now, there was "no credible threat".
http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/08/plot-against-obama-not-credible-threat.html
Again, regardless I doubt many Democrats will complain if these guys are shipped off to GUITMO innocent or not. We can't have people making threats credible or not agains the Chosen One that God has given us.
Thank God they were stopped. Can you imagine the damage that would have been done to the country had they not been?
I think your take on it is a little harsh, Ann. I think it is good that a traffic stop was able to get these whackos before they could act on their plans.
The argument from The Corner is embarrassing: "Sometimes warrantless searches yield good results!"
Let's just have random no-knock police raids on people's homes while we're at it! I'm sure some of them are guilty!
Is this a strawman in my cereal bowl or shredded wheat?
It's too early in the morning for your "doubts," John.
It's always a good time to bash the Left, the media, and constitutional rights.
Yes it is and having a good time while one is doing it makes it better.
Gee, I hope the ACLU types do not get on their high horse about the guy being stopped for DWW- driving while white!
It's a story for the media, which needs stories for the soap opera audience.
The audience picks the stories, in the end.
There aren't many different stories, but their regular audience never tires of any of them.
That's how you get a genre.
althouse is crashing my firefox session!
I note that the person saying there is no credible threat is the US Attorney in Denver. It's not clear from John's strawman-loaded comments who the they is.
Let's also hope the media cover this responsibly...
Hoping for responsibility from the media is a utopian pipe dream. It is the impossible dream.
TrevorJackson,
Yes the Democrats cared so much about the Constitutional rights of those people Janet Reno burned to death on national TV. They also cared passionately about the family of Randy Weaver whom the FBI murdered. And certainly, it was necessary to bring in a SWAT team to capture a child fugitive from Castro. We had 8 years of Democratic rule in the 1990s and a large pile of dead bodies to show for it. The day I hear a Democrat care and not make excuses for burning a bunch of children to death or killing the innocent family of some nut holed up in a house, I will believe they have any concern about Constitutional rights. Yes, Weaver and Koresh were nuts and hardly sympathetic figures. But, isn't it the nuts and the unsympathetic figures that the Constitution is designed to protect most? But to most Democrats they were just evil rednecks who needed killing, much better to protest and cry over some failed suicide bomber at GUITMO.
And while we are talking about Democratic concern over Constitutional Rights, how about the Democratic Congress that passed minimum mandatory sentencing? How about the number of drug offenders in prison during the Clinton Administration? How about Clinton Staffers casually reading the background investigations of Republicans? The list goes on and on. Democrats claim to be defenders of the Constitution, yet they are full supporters of the drug war, and showed no compunction about abusing government power when they had it. But, hey they claim to be "for the common man to" and are about to nominate a VP candidate who has spent his entire career in the pocket of the credit card companies and drafted the bankruptcy reform bill. Obama can get his crooked loan to get a house from a convicted felon, but if someone tries to walk away from their credit card or medical debt, that has got to be stopped.
Fascist bastards are profiling white folks again! I believe it was a hit in the offing. One of the guys jumped out of a 6th story window, if reports are to be believed.
I wonder if a search of their crack pads will turn up white supremacy material and a photo of Timothy McVeigh.
They walk among us!
Given Mr. McCarthy experience, I am willing to give him some latitude.
John, you might want to switch to decaf. Janet Reno + Bill Clinton /= All Democrats.
We've been hearing the "They're Going To Kill Him" meme earnestly whispered around by supporters throughout Obama's candidacy since it gained the moment, and now here it is right on cue for the big show. This just yet more of the bathos of it all Powerline pointed out.
"Sources say he had a handcuff ring and was wearing a swastika, and is thought to have ties to white supremacist organizations."
...Hidden behind the swastika patch was a Hillary! 2008 campaign button. Police are investigating.
And you really don't want to have a conversation about executive branch overreach comparing the Clinton years with the Bush II years.
Or wait, no that's me. I don't want to have that conversation.
Crazy Democrat that I am, I want to see and talk about the evidence in this alleged assassination plot. Then we can waterboard these terrorists.
From the looks of those characters, I don't think they could summon up the organization to order pizza, much less an assassination.
I think the media will try to portray this as a "revealing look into the dark side of America" instead of what this actually is, some morons who couldn't figure out to obey speed laws while transporting meth.
"From the looks of those characters, I don't think they could summon up the organization to order pizza, much less an assassination."
I haven't even looked at their pictures and I already know what they look like...
...OK, I looked at their pictures and they look exactly as I thought they would.
I fail to see what "bashing" has to do with it. The left is violently anti-law enforcement, and that can be easily documented. How many thousands of citations would you like?
Ann, are you saying that police searching cars with probably cause are acting unconstitutionally?
A bunch of Bitterclingers, no doubt.
…how about the Democratic Congress that passed minimum mandatory sentencing? How about the number of drug offenders in prison during the Clinton Administration?
It is the only thing they did right in forty years of tyranny.
Then we can waterboard these terrorists.
Nah, there is a much more effective torture. One that will cause severe psychological and physical pain. They will be locked in very small rooms with no lights. They will have to come down from their meth jags all alone. That is torture!
...OK, I looked at their pictures and they look exactly as I thought they would.
Ha. Or you can look at the pictures before reading the story and know that meth was somehow involved.
"...Hidden behind the swastika patch was a Hillary! 2008 campaign button. Police are investigating."
...the investigation has revealed that when the Hillary!2008 campaign button is held up to the moonlight with Capricorn rising, and when the holder-upper positions his mouth just... like... this, the image of George W. Bush appears. Police investigation continues.
Freeman, I am confused as well. Is there some sort of allegation here that there was a Consitutional rights violation here? If so, I would love to know what it was.
I think McCarthy is guilty of using a strawman here-- claiming that the left would normally be clamoring that there was a rights violation here or that they oppose this type of thing. Perhaps on the most fringy of fringes, but then Ann's comment sounds like she is sympathetic to that viewpoint.
Very odd all around.
Yes, Weaver and Koresh were nuts and hardly sympathetic figures. But, isn't it the nuts and the unsympathetic figures that the Constitution is designed to protect most?
Don't you mean that the Constitution was meant to defend only right-wing nuts?
John: "They also cared passionately about the family of Randy Weaver whom the FBI murdered."
Just one small point: George HW Bush was president when Randy Weaver's family were shot.
I think the media will try to portray this as a "revealing look into the dark side of America" instead of what this actually is, some morons who couldn't figure out to obey speed laws while transporting meth.
That's right, Salamander. No assassination attempt here! Move along! Pay no attention to the sniper rifles, white supremist ties, or declared intention to assassinate Obama!
Also, could the McCarthy post be any more loathesome?
I am very glad the police caught these people.
I do wonder about the "shooting from an elevated position" story. Invesco Field doesn't have any elevated positions overlooking it. And the bowl-like construction of the stadium means that any "elevated position" would have to be really elevated. And as other commenters have noted, camouflage wouldn't do anything in an urban environment. So I would at least hope that this group would have failed if they hadn't been caught.
The law of searches and seizures is complicated, and I don't know enough of the facts of this case to say whether a warrantless search was permitted (or whether the search was warrantless). I'm not making a pronouncement about that. I'm just observing that the Corner used this opportunity to diminish the whole notion of taking rights seriously, and I don't like that.
It would be astounding if there haven't already been several plots to assassinate Obama, which the FBI and Secret Service in cooperation with local police forces have quietly squelched.
Maybe Sen. Obama will have a new appreciation for law-enforcement,
Is there any evidence presented that shows that Sen. Obama does not already have a great appreciation for law enforcement?
Different way of asking the question: What lawyer doesn't like laws? Aren't laws their bread and butter? It's like a carpenter not liking wood.
The argument from The Corner is embarrassing: "Sometimes warrantless searches yield good results!"
Badly worded sentence on is part, but it appears a warrant wasn't needed to search the vehicle in this instance. So while, yes it was warrantless, it wasn't a violation of the 4th Amendment.
There is a distinction that Ann no doubt grasped but decided to go with the snarky bash the constitution line anyway.
I think McCarthy is guilty of using a strawman here-- claiming that the left would normally be clamoring that there was a rights violation here or that they oppose this type of thing.
Bear in mind that the officer has the evidence of a driver behaving nervously and erratically.
Actually, didn't Ann highlight a similar case during the John Roberts hearings? An officer pulled a suspect over in the middle of the night driving someone else's car. Although the suspect claimed he was borrowing it from a "friend," the officer made him open the trunk, where he found the original license plates (and thus proof of theft). Roberts had a great line: "Sometimes a car being driven by an unlicensed driver, with no registration and stolen tags, really does belong to the driver’s friend, and sometimes dogs do eat homework, but in neither case is it reasonable to insist on checking out the story before taking other appropriate action."
Also, could the McCarthy post be any more loathesome?
Yes.
I'm just observing that the Corner used this opportunity to diminish the whole notion of taking rights seriously, and I don't like that.
I don't think that's the case at all. The context Andy is responding to here is the debate surrounding FISA and other alleged overreaches of the executive's surveillance authority. During that debate, many on the left presented the exaggerated case that warrants are always required.
There is a distinction that Ann no doubt grasped but decided to go with the snarky bash the constitution line anyway.
Well, to be fair, Andy was being snarky too, but I agree that Ann didn't get the point this time.
d -
McCarthy's whole argument that this is somehow politically inconvenient for liberals is just insane. I think Ann pointed it out because there's something so obviously inhuman about going right into point-scoring mode over it, but its also absurd on the merits.
Liberals don't object to cops pulling people over for driving erratically, and then finding rifles in their car. It wasn't like they were Muslim terrorists and we were all saved by ethnic profiling.
And as MadisonMan pointed out, the whole idea that Obama takes a dim view of law enforcement and now needs to have a possible assassination attempt foiled in order to gain a "new appreciation" for it is basically pulled right from McCarthy's ass.
"Sometimes a car being driven by an unlicensed driver, with no registration and stolen tags, really does belong to the driver’s friend, and sometimes dogs do eat homework, but in neither case is it reasonable to insist on checking out the story before taking other appropriate action."
(snort) (guffaw)
How reprehensible of John Roberts not to take Constitutional rights seriously!
(chuckle)
A genre a day keeps the doctor away,
Have you had your genre today?
Have your affrayed anxietays been allayed?
Meth heads, the white trash contingent of the modern barbarian clan.
Tough call about the warrantless search. Cops aren't supposed to use their common sense in choosing whom to search, it appears. Hunches aren't evidence. But that's what works, or else, like the TSA in airports, you end up searching everyone.
So dirtballs weaving around and acting nervous and drugged are reason enough to search their piece of shit vehicle. No, I don't believe they're rousting grandmas in their pristine 1985 Buick. But neither should the police be given leave to do whatever the hell they want to do.
It's tough to codify hunches. And the abuse of such power is far too tempting, as we see has happened with innocnet people killed from no-knock raids.
Punishment for government abuse of power is the only thing that would keep excesses in check while keeping the necessary intrusions possible.
"CBS4 has learned at least four people are under arrest in connection with a possible plot to kill Barack Obama at his Thursday night acceptance speech in Denver. All are being held on either drug or weapons charges.
CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass reported one of the suspects told authorities they were "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point using a ... rifle … sighted at 750 yards."
This doesn't make any sense: There can't possibly be any point 750 yards away from the podium at the Pepsi center. The Rose Bowl is less than 300 yards from North to South rim. 750 yards is more than twice that. Doesn't anybody in the press know math, or how big things are?
Jeeze, could these guys look anything more like Steve Buscemi and Peter Stromare in Fargo? "Well the little guy, he was kind of funny looking."
And as MadisonMan pointed out, the whole idea that Obama takes a dim view of law enforcement and now needs to have a possible assassination attempt foiled in order to gain a "new appreciation" for it is basically pulled right from McCarthy's ass.
I have to admit, Doyle, you're right. After all, it is just the opposite: Obama takes an extremely high view of law enforcement. Which is why he cited the prosecutions of the 1993 WTC bombers as an example of how we should go about prosecuting terror.
dbp: remember, that is supposedly what these perps told the authorities. Perhaps that is some of the evidence supporting the assertion that this wasn't a credible threat.
Ann Althouse said...
The law of searches and seizures is complicated, and I don't know enough of the facts of this case…
As a former police officer with much experience in this, I can say that the laws of search and seizure are like walking a very thin tight rope over an extremely high chasm with no safety net. Without knowing all facts of the case it is very difficult to determine if the search, seizure, and arrests were valid. Though there are perfectly legal and legitimate reasons to search a vehicle without a warrant, one must walk a very fine line while doing so and afterwards while documenting the events.
DBP, Not to say that the plan or reporting of it had any merit, but I think Obama is going to speak at Mile High Stadium (aka Invesco Field), not the Pepsi Center.
MCG, my criticism was of the press not the authorities. Any story should have pointed-out that "rifles sighted to 750 yards" is inconsistant with a plan to shoot Sen. Obama at his acceptance speech.
You are probably right that this discrepantcy may be one of the reasons the authorities don't consider the plot to be credible.
gotcha.
Consider the concept that warrantless searches can be and often are constitutional protections
too, in and of themselves, making sure that one person's supposed
rights, and the fervent desire to protect them, can't be used as a weapon to harm others or abridge the rights of others.
Doyle said...
"No assassination attempt here! Move along! Pay no attention to the sniper rifles, white supremist ties, or declared intention to assassinate Obama!"
Pay no attention, either, to the fact that this supposed "assassination attempt" conveniently amplifies the Obama campaign's meme that Obama will win if he can break through the racism of America that holds him back... I'm not saying that the Obama campaign paid these guys to stage this "attempt," or that the holes in the story that others have pointed out (camo? elevated location?) can't be explained by the plotters being dumb, but I think it's worth noting who benefits from this bit of news.
"This doesn't make any sense: There can't possibly be any point 750 yards away from the podium at the Pepsi center. The Rose Bowl is less than 300 yards from North to South rim. 750 yards is more than twice that. Doesn't anybody in the press know math, or how big things are?"
It wasn't the press that was saying it, it was the nazimethhead. I think it is safe to assume that he doesn't know math or how big things are, in addition to all of the rest of what makes him an idiot.
"I'm just observing that the Corner used this opportunity to diminish the whole notion of taking rights seriously"
Squealing about profiling has nothing to do with rights, unless you have a different Constitution from mine. I see no "right not to be profiled" in the BofR.
Maybe it's a "penumbra right."
Man, anthrax plotter sending anthrax to liberals, Knoxville shooter targeting a liberal church with Sean Hannity and Michael Savage books in his bedroom, and now this. Hmmmph. Not a good month for the Deliverance wing of the Republican party.
dbp,
The media ignorance about firearms certainly doesn't stop there! I suppose when the average reader non-shooting reader sees the line "sighted at 750 yards" they picture a dial on the side with the pointer at "750". But in fact, if these guys were so incompetent at driving, what makes us so sure they actually know how to sight in their rifles?
Not a good month for the Deliverance wing of the Republican party.
Nice strawman there garage. Maybe one day you'll actually have an intellectually stimulating comment on here but I think your girl's loss to Obama has skewered your ablility for rational thought.
I'm not saying that the Obama campaign paid these guys to stage this "attempt," or that the holes in the story that others have pointed out (camo? elevated location?) can't be explained by the plotters being dumb, but I think it's worth noting who benefits from this bit of news.
Then what the hell are you saying exactly Simon? Prefacing an absolutely ridiculous assertion (supported by what evidence?) by "I'm not saying" doesn't give you the right of pulling a complicated conspiracy out of your ass whereby the Obama campaign goes out and hires some meth heads to drive around with sniper rifles so they will get arrested and can claim they were intent on killing Obama just to make him more sympathetic.
All we need now is Cedarford to chime in on how the Jews are behind it. They probably invented Meth to destroy the flower of white youth. These guys would have succeeded if only the evil Jews hadn't addled their brains.
Pay no attention, either, to the fact that this supposed "assassination attempt" conveniently amplifies the Obama campaign's meme that Obama will win if he can break through the racism of America that holds him back.
Why do I always want to vomit after reading Simon's posts?
Hoosier
Where's the strawman? I actually forgot the Freeper who had Coulter and Malkin books living out of his mother's basement that sent fake anthrax a year back to Olbermann. Sorry, these sloths are yours. I'm sure we'll get a link to Malkin soon from Ann. Charming.
But in fact, if these guys were so incompetent at driving, what makes us so sure they actually know how to sight in their rifles?
Based upon what has been reported thus far, I'm leaning toward the theory that these guys made up the story just to give them their 15 minutes and some cred with the prison population when they get locked up.
Or, based upon the simple fact they wouldn't have gotten within a mile of Obama with thier getups were so incompetent it's laughable.
In any event, I doubt there was much of an organized conspiracy beyond these two dipshits. If that was the case, I'd wager they'd at least get someone who as Kirk aptly stated, could competently drive a truck.
Sorry, these sloths are yours. I'm sure we'll get a link to Malkin soon from Ann. Charming.
Garage, considering your candidate hangs out with former bomb tossing anarchists, communists and racist preachers, I'd wouldn't be so quick to wag your finger. You have plenty of sloths in your own party to wean out if you so desire.
Then again you probably don't see much wrong with those associations as they have come to represent what your party stands for these days.
"rifles sighted to 750 yards"
Unless these guys were former military or SWAT snipers, 750 yards, downhill from cover is not an easy shot. and frankly not easy to train for.
Odds are they would shoot high.
dbp: Doesn't anybody in the press know math, or how big things are?
Please let me highly recommend A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper and Once Upon a Number: The Hidden Mathematical Logic Of Stories, and... well... everything else by John Allen Paulos.
The Drill SGT said...
"rifles sighted to 750 yards"
Unless these guys were former military or SWAT snipers, 750 yards, downhill from cover is not an easy shot. and frankly not easy to train for.
Unless you are a professional or shoot an aweful lot, sighting a rifle to 750yds. is difficult in and of itself, let alone hitting anything consistently; which is all that counts. Now add meth into the equation and we have the perfect impossible circumstance.
Odds are they would shoot high.
Well duh Drill Sgt. They were meth heads. I mean come on.... ;-)
Hey can any of you right-wing neo nazis out there let us know if 44 grams of meth is standard issue from the Aryan Nation quatermaster when on assassination assignments?
I love "Mathematician Reads the Newspaper." It should be a blog too.
"I actually forgot the Freeper who had Coulter and Malkin books living out of his mother's basement that sent fake anthrax a year back to Olbermann."
So the rightwing nuts live in their mothers' basements, but the leftwing nuts live in Obama's neighborhood.
Hey can any of you right-wing neo nazis out there let us know if 44 grams of meth is standard issue from the Aryan Nation quatermaster when on assassination assignments?
I'm sure if you went to Free Republic or Hot Air you could find out pretty easily. Or ask any Sean Hannity listener.
Doyle said...
That's right, Salamander. No assassination attempt here! Move along! Pay no attention to the sniper rifles, white supremist ties, or declared intention to assassinate Obama!
Wow, Doyle, way to miss the point there. All I'm saying is these guys are idiots, and if they're representative of anything it's that idiots are capable of evil, but they'll be stupid about that too.
If the media does try to universalize this, try to use it as a brush to tar conservatives (which I'll agree i haven't seen happen yet, in any official way) the way they use clinic bombers to tar pro-lifers, it's as ridiculous as saying Squeaky Fromme represents liberals.
I'm sure if you went to Free Republic or Hot Air you could find out pretty easily. Or ask any Sean Hannity listener.
Garage are you still so very bitter that the neophyte upended the incompetent campaign your girl ran? I only say incompetent because there is no other reason why such a highly qualified person like Hillary should have not gotten the nod over this empty suit who mouths platitudes.
It certainly sounds like it because you used to be one of the more saner and cogent commentors on here but you're sounding an awful like hdhouse anymore.
Remember when garagemahal really hated Obama? I guess he's learned to bend over and take it like a man.
I still don't like Obama, never have and probably never will. Hillary got fucked and by not even considering her for the VP might cost him the election. That's separate from the fact McCain is completely nuts and wants his finger in control of the button, and separate from the fact you just don't like getting hit back. The way McCain chose to campaign like a 10 yr old makes it all the easier to rip him a new one. POW or no POW.
That's separate from the fact McCain is completely nuts and wants his finger in control of the button,
Oh please garage, come up with something better than trying to conjure up the image of Ronny Raygun ready to inagurate the new nuclear winer. That's pretty lame even for you.
and separate from the fact you just don't like getting hit back.
Oh I can take it with the best of em. I guess if all right wingers are meth addicted neo-nazis, I suppose I can lump liberals like you with the Black Panthers, bomb throwing anarchists and racist black preachers. After all, your candidate seems to have a lot more association with them than McCain has with Adolph and his ilk.
You really want to play that game?
The way McCain chose to campaign like a 10 yr old makes it all the easier to rip him a new one. POW or no POW.
Yes, so much more mature than Obama slamming Hillary and Bill and thier supporters for being racists. So nice to see how Bill, who has his office in Harlem you know, and Ferraro having to defend themselves from being racists. Yes, garage, Obama was such a purist.
Doyle said: Why do I always want to vomit after reading Simon's posts?
Because he makes you realize what you've been swallowing?
Both Bill Clinton and especially Ferrarro should have known they would get pushback for saying what they said.
It wasn't Obama or even Obama's campaign that really had anything to do with calling Bill a racist. It was just an uncharitable interpretation of his "Jackson won SC too" comment.
Because he makes you realize what you've been swallowing?
Yeah that's it. I've been swallowing the official cover story that some Nazis were thinking about taking a shot at Obama, when in fact Sniper Rifle Truthers like Simon have figured out that it was all a "black op" (no pun intended) to garner sympathy for the black presidential candidate.
They've convincingly demonstrated that not only is America not racist, but stories about racist assassins are prima facie suspicious, because they blend so seamlessly with anti-conservative narratives.
All my preconceptions, shattered by Simon's towering intellect... Just give me a moment to pick up the pieces.
Speaking ONLY to the rifle sighting thing: a 750 meter shot is damn near impossible without an accurate range finder and something like a Barret sniper rifle. Even match quality weapons with a highly trained sniper would have great difficulty in hitting a target at 750 meters. A match quality weapon usually has better lands and grooves and much refined trigger mechanisms.
Not saying these dudes werent out for evil; its just the rifle sighting thing is a bit flakey.
Doyle: try pepto or phillips--may help you get your stomach under control.
Doyle said...
That's right, Salamander. No assassination attempt here! Move along! Pay no attention to the sniper rifles, white supremist ties, or declared intention to assassinate Obama
Doyle,
I speak now for most of the VRWC here.
These guys sound serious, but incompetent. I'd feel the same way if it was MSA students with pipe bombs wanting to do jihad for OBL. They were talking about murder, with the means to carry it out. Meth heads, sure, but even meth heads can get lucky.
punish them to the maximum extent of the law. we're not downplaying the conspiracy, we're not sure that they could have done it, but the conspiracy is the crime here after all.
lock em up. no complaints from us.
But, isn't it the nuts and the unsympathetic figures that the Constitution is designed to protect most?
That's like saying the ban on unreasonable search and seizures exists primarily to protect criminals. The "nuts and unsympathetic figures" get the most individual *benefit* from the first amendment, certainly, but that doesn't mean it exists primarily to protect them.
lock em up. no complaints from us.
I hear that, and I appreciate it. But Simon had to come with the "oh how very convenient" stuff that does reflect badly on the group :-)
I agree with Drill Sgt's position, above. One quibble, though:
Pay no attention to the sniper rifles
I haven't seen any reports on what make and model of rifles were being used -- just that one or two of them had scopes. Most hunting rifles have scopes. It is unlikely that they were sniper rifles, except in the sense that any rifle used by a would-be sniper could be called a "sniper rifle".
Doyle said...
"Sniper Rifle Truthers like Simon have figured out that it was all a "black op" (no pun intended) to garner sympathy for the black presidential candidate."
I not only didn't say that, I specifically disclaimed that interpretation ("I'm not saying that the Obama campaign paid these guys to stage this 'attempt[]'" (emphasis added)). What I said was, it's worth looking at who's benefiting from it.
garage mahal said...
"Hillary got fucked"
Who talked!
garage mahal said...
I still don't like Obama, never have and probably never will. Hillary got fucked and by not even considering her for the VP might cost him the election.
If she did it was only through the good graces of the Energizer Bunny. Not considering her for VP was the right choice. Two inexperienced people in the White House would be a disaster, especially since they really do not like each other. Then add Bill and you have a formula for disaster. After he won the only proper response from Obama from anyone, including the DNC regarding Hillary should have been “Hillary who?”
But hey, you should be happy. She did get the convention she wanted. She is the prom queen. And she will get a nomination. Obama is no match for the Clinton tag team. They lost but won in the end. They steamrolled him.
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