Althouse: Hillary wins Kentucky by a "wide margin."

May 20, 2008

Hillary wins Kentucky by a "wide margin."

ADDED: Wow. 65% to 30% for Hillary in Kentucky. That momentum isn't quite working for Barack. Suddenly, it's time for Oregon. CNN (TV) is saying, based on a poll, that Obama is ahead, but they are not projecting a winner yet.

AND: Hillary's victory speech: Part 1, Part 2.

114 comments:

George M. Spencer said...: If you're talking eastern Kentucky, you're talking double wide.; 5/20/08, 6:24 PM
vbspurs said...: Oregon voting deadline via MSNBC

3:35 hours to go (EST).

Long night. I want to see the margin in Oregon, especially, so I'll be here.

(Chris, you there?)

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 6:25 PM
vbspurs said...: Fox News panel talking openly about Hillary bulldozing her way unto the ticket.

- Would Obama be forced to accept her, even if he doesn't want her?

- Would BILL Clinton get on the phone, and pressure the Party to do this?

So far, because of her tenacity in staying in the race, I've inched towards a greater respect for her. But Obama hasn't given me any reason to respect him -- quite the contrary.

So I was wondering about if I would respect Obama MORE if he held off Hillary's pressure? And the answer is yes.; 5/20/08, 6:41 PM
Donna B. said...: vpspurs - Interesting thought. An Obama/Clinton ticket is the nightmare ticket for me. I think it might win and that would put Obama in the White House on Hillary's coattails.

I don't want him there under any circumstances.

I'm not so sure about a Clinton/Obama ticket. While I don't even want Obama "a heartbeat away" from the presidency, I'm not so sure that his #2 place on the ballot might drive off just enough black voters and messianiacs.; 5/20/08, 7:01 PM
vbspurs said...: Hey, Donna. Nice to see you around, since I'm guessing lots of folks are watching Idol tonight. :)

Kirsten Powers of Fox News said that if Hillary doesn't get the nomination, there will be a lot "pissed off" women out there (her plain words made everyone laugh).

Then Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC said that if Obama picks her, his supporters will have concrete proof he's not the agent for change he said, and will be seen as weak.

Chris Matthews wondered bitterly what she wants -- is this a kind of blackmail for a place in the SCOTUS, or does she want moral leverage for a run in 2012 ("I told you I would win not him in 2008").

Everyone is mentioning Ed Rendell of PA as the obvious #2, but isn't he a Clinton loyalist? That would be a major back-stab.

Here's Hillary.

"Thank you Kentucky! (crowd Hillary! Hillary!".; 5/20/08, 7:15 PM
Revenant said...: Would Obama be forced to accept her, even if he doesn't want her?

If Hillary wants the job -- and personally I doubt she does -- I don't see how Obama can legitimately turn her down. Doing so would alienate an awful lot of Democratic voters.; 5/20/08, 7:17 PM
Methadras said...: I would think that an Obama/Clinton ticket is a sure lose for the DP. No on wants to see the clash of the Marxist/Socialists.; 5/20/08, 7:19 PM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: The Democratic Party isn't suicidal.

If Obama already has trouble looking strong enough, how would saddling him with a vice president he doesn't want make him look?; 5/20/08, 7:20 PM
vbspurs said...: Hey Rev!

Doing so would alienate an awful lot of Democratic voters.

Would it? Isn't Hillary's staying power entirely about voters NOT wanting Obama as President?

I just don't see what she can say to Obama, if he really really doesn't want her as Veep.

LOL, Hillary just mentioned that "though we've been outspent MASSIVELY". Not one black face behind her, BTW.

And no damn bowling pins either.; 5/20/08, 7:21 PM
Kirby Olson said...: They should just give the nomination to Gore as a compromise that would make everybody happy.; 5/20/08, 7:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Why would Clinton want to be on the ticket? If he wins, her political career is over.

It's too big of a risk. Better to just let him lose.; 5/20/08, 7:24 PM
vbspurs said...: Why would Clinton want to be on the ticket? If he wins, her political career is over.

I agree, but not the Senate career, which I think we all know means less to her.

Chris Matthews made a not-so-elegant correlation, that she might want to be the new Senator Kennedy...; 5/20/08, 7:27 PM
ricpic said...: The Democratic Party is turning a blind eye to the obvious unelectability of Obama. Hard to believe but they're outsuiciding the Republicans.; 5/20/08, 7:28 PM
vbspurs said...: She's dragging another elderly woman (89-year old African American woman at that) saying how she's been volunteering her time at her HQ in KY.

Dalton Hatfield from W. Virginia again! Sold his bike and video games.

That kid gets around.; 5/20/08, 7:33 PM
vbspurs said...: I don't watch MSNBC a lot, but I do for the primaries.

I've been floored how anti-Hillary they are. I mean, sexist and nasty in ways I was always taught Democrats just weren't.

(Conversely how fair Fox are to Hillary, way beyond any Operation Chaos tactics)

MSNBC should be careful. Even Fox have some token oppositional voice on their panel.

There is none on MSNBC. None.; 5/20/08, 7:44 PM
Steven said...: Well, she can probably force her way on to the ticket. After all, while it's modern custom to let the presidential nominee pick the VP, the actual mechanics have the delegates decide, and it's quite possible Hillary Clinton can win majority support for the VP slot between her pledged delegates and the supers.

And that translates into leverage, no?

"Obama, here are your choices. You can name me your running mate, and have me publicly turn you down in the most humiliating fashion my speechwriters can devise.

"You can name someone else, have a bloody floor fight at the convention, and quite possibly have me as your running mate against your will, like a millstone around your neck.

"Or you can give me [big long list of things], and you can name whomever you want for VP, subject to my veto."; 5/20/08, 7:47 PM
Palladian said...: "There is none on MSNBC."

What, the network of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews is biased and uninterested in opposing viewpoints? Say it ain't so!; 5/20/08, 7:49 PM
vbspurs said...: 90% of the votes in: 65% Clinton / 30% Obama.

Ouch, 30%.; 5/20/08, 7:51 PM
Mortimer Brezny said...: The wide margin?

Her vagina.; 5/20/08, 7:53 PM
Palladian said...: "The wide margin?"

The only wide margin Obama has is that vast empty space between those dopey-looking ears.; 5/20/08, 7:56 PM
ricpic said...: The Buckwheat and Farina express can't seem to clear HillaryHeifer off the tracks.; 5/20/08, 7:57 PM
vbspurs said...: "You can name someone else, have a bloody floor fight at the convention, and quite possibly have me as your running mate against your will, like a millstone around your neck."

Isn't this predicated on the fact that she REALLY want the Veep spot or the SCOTUS?

And the question for us is, does she really?

I don't think she does. I mean, not at all, and I don't think it's a question of "well, better that than nothing".

So where's the leverage in dragging your Party through the gutter, and losing the "tenacity" label she now has, to go back to "That Bitch Hillary"?

Is it as simple as the Party helping her to pay off her debt, whilst making her look good until now? If that's what it is, wow.

Say it ain't so!

Heh, Palladian. But I fancy a lot of people didn't realise it was just that biased.

Not for you and me, or others, but for a lot of lefties.

Hope they see what we meant by MSM bias now...Lanny Davis certainly admitted it on Fox.; 5/20/08, 8:00 PM
vbspurs said...: The Buckwheat and Farina express

OMG, Ricpic. As if there was any doubt before, you've shown your true colours.; 5/20/08, 8:03 PM
blake said...: Well, now it's really over, right?

Surely Hil(l)ary can't withstand two HUGE wins like this?

She's gotta give up now, right?

Right?; 5/20/08, 8:03 PM
ricpic said...: To paraphrase Ring Lardner: Shut up, Victoria, I explained.; 5/20/08, 8:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Rendell will never be VP, his "zipper problem" is as bad as Bill's. If Clinton picks up the nomination and prevails in the general election, payback for Rendell's efforts in Pennsylvania would be a Supreme Court nomination for his wife, Midge Rendell, who is currently on the Third Circuit.; 5/20/08, 8:18 PM
KCFleming said...: They sure don't make messiahs like they used to.

At the convention, Hillary should ask Obama to turn stones into bread, and feed the gathering.; 5/20/08, 8:19 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: I am so over this election.

Just make it go away.

Hi Palladian, hee hee.; 5/20/08, 8:29 PM
john said...: (Mort, you can clear out a room faster than Trooper on leftover refries.)

Rev: "Doing so would alienate an awful lot of Democratic voters."

Sure, probably 2 or 3. I have been taking a poll of my liberal friends (that would be nearly everyone I know) and I have found a fairly common thread: None gives a rats ass about Obama's skimpy CV or Clinton's marriage, whether he is black with a white mom or white with a black dad, whether Bill would run the WH, whether each would have the other on the ticket, or really anything about these two candidates. When November comes, they will vote party line, period.

Their ONLY mission is to get the Repubs out of the WH, not who of the Dems might be a better president.

We here who say that Obama is unelectable because he is a marxist, or Clinton is unelectable because she is a socialist, are completely missing the real message, which is that a huge proportion of the voters in November will vote Democratic no matter who is running.; 5/20/08, 8:30 PM
vbspurs said...: Did you explain how you were banned from Ace of Spades for racism, Ricpic?

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=248692#c1726440
http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=257153#c1861294
http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=256460#c1840239

To your contention that:

48- There are millions of Americans, including yours truly, who will never ever pull the lever for a black president."

Someone asked you perhaps you would, if the candidate were a black conservative candidate. Your response:

"50- Not even then. I have my standards."

Yuck. I need a palette cleanser. Sorry about all this, guys, but this sensitive topic, like anti-semitism, is especially disgusting.

Be back for the Oregon coverage after 11.

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 8:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't understand the thought process of people who think that presidents and senators are going to hand out Supreme Court justiceships to politicians. It's not going to happen, for many reasons.

1. The court, politicized though it may be, must maintain a nonpartisan veneer. That means no politicians.

2. Hillary Clinton is not remotely qualified to be a Supreme Court justice. Just like Harriet Miers. Neither is Obama.

3. Trying to put a politician on the Supreme Court means a big fight. What president wants that?

I'm sure there are other reasons...; 5/20/08, 8:32 PM
blake said...: Hey, where is Troop today?; 5/20/08, 8:38 PM
reader_iam said...: I find the "promise" of a Supreme Court slot**--and even the request, much less a quid pro quo demand--deeply, deeply offensive and disgusting, if in fact that little idea/rumor being floated has any basis in fact. (I'd like to see the evidence.) I can only hope--because that's all I can do--that if that DOES turn out to be the case, we all get let in on the deal in an honest and timely fashion. (In the event, I put the chances of that at, oh, roughly zero.)

That idea--a SCOTUS slot as mere barter--actually makes me angry. And I'm one of the swings, and in a swing state, in terms of the general election, no less. And I wouldn't count on my being all that special of a case, much less unique.

Don't do it. Best not even to consider it (or at least publicly).

**I would absolutely feel the same in the reverse situation. Or the Republican Party. Whatever. I hated the Harriet Meiers nomination; such a thing even on its face pales in comparison, due to context.; 5/20/08, 8:49 PM
ricpic said...: Hey Victoria, you worthless supercilious piece of dreck, you've outed me, huh? What a thrill that must be for an Obamanation like you.; 5/20/08, 8:50 PM
rcocean said...: Face it Millions of whites will never vote for a black man. It's funny watching MSNBC and seeing them react to this.

Chris Matthews - almost crying over "those damn racists who hate blacks". I just hope Oregon votes Clinton - Otherwise Chris might collapse on camera.

DNC talking heads - white racists will vote Obama in the general because we closed our eyes and wished really, really, hard.; 5/20/08, 8:53 PM
Steven said...: Isn't this predicated on the fact that she REALLY want the Veep spot or the SCOTUS?

No. My assumption is that Clinton sees the value of unofficial power just as much as official power.

If, say, three members of the Cabinet and assorted lesser offices are occupied by Clinton loyalists who are there solely because Hillary Clinton put them there, then Hillary Clinton is influential and powerful, whatever her official powers as junior Senator from New York.

If the Department of Energy, say, has a decision to make that affects New Mexico, and the Secretary of Energy is a Clinton-chosen Clinton loyalist, then New Mexico's senators and representatives naturally will approach Hillary Clinton about it, no? And then she has favors she's owed, right? Influence she can later use on other projects? Maybe some Congressional votes she can barter to a President in exchange for a different favor?

Influence is always useful to a Senator, and delegates at the convention are something Clinton can trade for influence.; 5/20/08, 8:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe all the people who want to be president want to be president because they think they can help the country.; 5/20/08, 8:55 PM
Steven said...: Specifically, she doesn't have to drag her party through the gutter. She just has to be able to credibly threaten to do it. Then Obama will find himself under pressure from the party (Dean, Reid, Pelosi, the as-yet uncomitted superdelegates, etc.) to give her what she wants. That's the leverage.; 5/20/08, 9:00 PM
reader_iam said...: That strikes me as being beside the point, seven machos. It's what happens if and when it becomes clear that they're not going to be in that position, regardless of "who" the "they're" are.; 5/20/08, 9:01 PM
Steven said...: Seven Machos --

Sure. But how can you help the country if you don't have power and influence? It's insidious. Angelic intentions can drive shady actions when faced with the realities of politics.; 5/20/08, 9:04 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: Right now I am laying on the couch on have a rare clumber face on each of my well defined muscular shoulders.

I love those dogs more than anything in the word-except my parents.

That Jamal guy on CNN looks like he is packing a nice hog. No ring either on his finger. I am smelling some gayness. I would like to see him stand up so we could get a booty shot-that would be really helpful.; 5/20/08, 9:05 PM
Anonymous said...: If you told me a year ago that I'd be defending Hillary Clinton today, I'd have called you batty. However, I really believe that Clinton believes that she is the best candidate the Democrats could put up (and, incidentally, I agree). I really believe that she wants to see her candidacy through to the end simply to demonstrate her commitment and to ensure that she is the clear front runner in 2012.

She would be silly to try to horse trade with Obama, or to lobby for or accept the vice presidential nomination. Were they to win, she'd be stuck as the vice president for at least four years and unable to run for president until 2016. She'd be too old by then and it's highly likely that circumstances would be unfavorable. Were they to lose, she'd be more viable but why risk it?

The thing for her to do is make a nice speech and sit on the sidelines with support but not too much support, watch Obama lose, and run in 2012.

Finally, I don't understand why North Carolina clinched everything for Obama but West Virginia and Kentucky don't matter.; 5/20/08, 9:09 PM
Anonymous said...: rcocean said...Face it Millions of whites will never vote for a black man. It's funny watching MSNBC and seeing them react to this.

But millions of White people are voting for Obama BECAUSE he's black, without being too black

McCain will beat Obama in part due to his support from disaffected Hillary voters.

Hillary will get another chance in 4 years when she's 64 and McCain retires to allow VP Romney to run or hangs on to face the Clintons.; 5/20/08, 9:46 PM
Simon said...: reader_iam said...
"I find the "promise" of a Supreme Court slot ... deeply, deeply offensive and disgusting, if in fact that little idea/rumor being floated has any basis in fact."

Not to mention illegal.

Mortimer Brezny said...
"The wide margin? Her vagina."

The Obama supporters truly are becoming despicable in their desperation. If they'll resort to misogyny, it doesn't take a genius to work out what other depths they'll plumb.; 5/20/08, 9:50 PM
wgh said...: Well, out of my ENTIRE state . . . only 2 counties for Obama. Mine and the good folk of Lexington. Pike County, on the eastern border, actually went 90-freaking-1 percent Hillary. Think of that number. Ninety freaking one. Unbelievable. Well, actually, not so unbelievable.; 5/20/08, 9:52 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: I can't find it, so piss on it.

TV guide gives the names of networks but not the numbers.

Comcast fills the screen with what's NOT showing.

Clicking through it appears the Obamanians are witnessing the resurrection or preparing for the second coming or something. I despise conventions.

I reached a supersaturation point an age ago. How long they can keep going round and round is utterly amazing. I'm left dumbfounded at the density of this process. Please, kill me now.; 5/20/08, 9:55 PM
vbspurs said...: Hillary will get another chance in 4 years when she's 64 and McCain retires to allow VP Romney to run or hangs on to face the Clintons.

That exact scenario occured to me, too, Jdee.

But who was the last President to step aside for his VP, no matter how unfit? Not even Wilson did that.

Simon wrote:

Not to mention illegal.

And the Clintons are complete strangers to quid pro quos? ;)

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 10:02 PM
vbspurs said...: BTW, what are your guys' thoughts on Obama holding his celebration rally in Iowa?

Wouldn't that rankle slightly if you were an Oregonian? It also smells of "Mission Accomplished"...; 5/20/08, 10:03 PM
john said...: jdeeripper -

"Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I'm sixty-four?"; 5/20/08, 10:05 PM
reader_iam said...: Victoria: Apart from issues of theatre, narrative arc, symmetry and maybe even payback, you need to look closely at the demographics--and put aside Oregon, for now, because of its geographic location and whether, due to other reasons, there's any surprise about it going for Sen. Obama.

Hmmmm .... .; 5/20/08, 10:15 PM
vbspurs said...: Brit Hume just now:

"You know what is funny. That as long as we have known them, as long as we've been covering them, we CAN'T figure these people -- the Clintons, out!

We've never seen people like this before."; 5/20/08, 10:15 PM
vbspurs said...: Hmmmm .... .

I know, I know. I counted two black faces in the crowd.

(I was on the phone with my bf, changing over from the Celtics-Pistons game to catch his speech, so I wasn't really paying attention) ;); 5/20/08, 10:17 PM
Palladian said...: Oregon is like Vermont with rain instead of snow.; 5/20/08, 10:20 PM
reader_iam said...: I meant, actually look at the state demographics, not Obama's crowd tonight (especially given it was in Des Moines) (though, especially given that it was in Des Moines, in particular, your observation certainly makes a point, and adds to others). Also, look at the original breakdown of Jan. 3 results.; 5/20/08, 10:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Kentucky has more people than Oregon.; 5/20/08, 10:24 PM
vbspurs said...: I hear you, Reader. :)

Wgh wrote:

Unbelievable. Well, actually, not so unbelievable.

Hmm, interesting link thanks. One of those two, Fayette Co, went to Obama by a mere 2,000 vote win margin.; 5/20/08, 10:25 PM
rcocean said...: White's in Washington & Oregon are more like White's in Vermont.

And they are as representative of the average USA white person (aka "typical")as those in Vermont.

How many white democrats who voted *for Kerry* will vote against Obama, the Harvard Educated, black man? 10 percent? 5 percent?

Looks bleak for the Dems. Hello President McCain.; 5/20/08, 10:27 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: Oregon is not like Vermont.

Oregon is very liberal on the western seaboard.

The eastern part of Oregon is very republican like Idaoh or eastern Washington.

Vermont, on the other hand, is commie haven, and I love it. Beautiful little New England Cities, Burlington is to die for, Brattleboro you want to cuddle with, Stowe diva heaven, Bennington delicious.; 5/20/08, 10:31 PM
vbspurs said...: Palette change contribution:

Does...

Chelsea Clinton

Look like...

Kirsten Powers of Fox?; 5/20/08, 10:32 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: Idaho-sorry for the misspelling fellow republicans and lovers of everything that Bush has done-the best president we have ever had.; 5/20/08, 10:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Titus -- Like so many good comedians, you are pretty hilarious a lot of the time except when you get political. Then, your jokes don't work and you are like the equivalent of Jim Carrey lamely trying to be a dramatic actor.

Stick to the schtick, kid.; 5/20/08, 10:37 PM
vbspurs said...: President Carter's Chief of Staff, Hamilton Jordan, has sadly lost his battle with cancer, and passed away.

I was curious why they were pronouncing his name as "Jerden" just now. Wiki says:

"His last name is pronounced in the traditional Southern style, rhyming with "burden.""

Hmm. Interesting. Michael Jerden? He was raised in North Carolina.

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 10:38 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: Who says I am kidding an order of nachos minus the sour cream and guac.; 5/20/08, 10:38 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: He was only 63-he must of been young when he was on Carter's staff Miss Vicky.; 5/20/08, 10:39 PM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: When you get political you don't love republicans-ie you are not funny.; 5/20/08, 10:40 PM
vbspurs said...: Must've been, Titus, must've been.; 5/20/08, 10:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Nobody says you are kidding.

In the sage words of Steve Martin, who was funny in The Jerk and doing stand up but lame as melodramatic dad in Father of the Bride II, comedy is not pretty.; 5/20/08, 10:41 PM
reader_iam said...: Jordan lost a battle to cancer. And apparently, perhaps separately (not clear to me, since I haven't followed up) he had been working on behalf of cancer research/sufferers, and/or the like, for something like two decades, or at least according to what was being said on MSNBC a few hours ago, when the news first broke.; 5/20/08, 10:44 PM
Jennifer said...: The Eastern part of Oregon is very small compared to the Valley. There are Republican pockets throughout Oregon but the Portland metro area dominates the state and is quite liberal. Throw in Eugene, Corvallis and Bend and Oregon is quite like Vermont. Except with rain not snow and beer not ice cream. Equal parts Birkenstocks.; 5/20/08, 10:45 PM
vbspurs said...: MSNBC pointing out that the white Kentucky Democrat defections from a supposed Obama/Clinton candidacy, mirrors the percentage of Kerry/Bush.

32% for Bush in 2004.

So it's not a question of race, EXACTLY, but who is perceived as more pro-blue-collar or sharing blue-collar values.

This is a very important conclusion, and a legitimate one.; 5/20/08, 10:50 PM
Anonymous said...: It can't be true. People only vote Republican when they are snookered. When there is a Swiftboating. When, as Bryant Gumbel says, voters have a temper tantrum.

That's the basic media narrative of the last several decades, anyway. No one would vote Republican on issues that matter to their lives.; 5/20/08, 10:56 PM
rcocean said...: Titus,

You are an east coast person. I know the Pacific NW. Seattle and Portland dominate both states. Both are quite liberal. Even Eastern Washington and Oregon south and east of Portland are
nothing like rural Kentucky.

And Vermont is a freak state that should be kicked out the union and given to Canada. We can then make PR our 50st state. Beaches and Babes instead of Bernie Sanders.; 5/20/08, 10:59 PM
vbspurs said...: It can't be true. People only vote Republican when they are snookered. When there is a Swiftboating. When, as Bryant Gumbel says, voters have a temper tantrum.

We've passed the Swiftboating football to Hillary.

It's gotta come soon. We'll see. Olbermann just referenced the Firpo. I guess that makes Obama Jack Dempsey. Heh, the Great White Hope.; 5/20/08, 11:02 PM
Revenant said...: Would it? Isn't Hillary's staying power entirely about voters NOT wanting Obama as President?

Beats me, Victoria. I can't figure out why anyone would actually want to vote for either of those two.

But I certainly get the impression that she has a core of genuine supporters.; 5/20/08, 11:03 PM
vbspurs said...: Hey, Jennifer, may I ask what is the name of that (most) conservative county in Oregon?

Jackson Co.? Grant Co.?

I remember it being spoken of once on LGF.; 5/20/08, 11:06 PM
Revenant said...: And Vermont is a freak state that should be kicked out the union and given to Canada. We can then make PR our 50st state.

We should boot New Hampshire, too, just so we don't have to remember which of them is still a state.; 5/20/08, 11:06 PM
Palladian said...: "We should boot New Hampshire, too, just so we don't have to remember which of them is still a state."

Are you kidding?! New Hampshire is one of our better hopes for true liberty. Live free or die!; 5/20/08, 11:10 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Titus is correct. Oregon is NOT Vermont. The urban areas Portland and Eugene are very left leaning. My husband was born in Oregon and has family there. However, the rural areas are more like Arkansas. In fact every year there is a huge Arky picnic that draws people who "immigrated" to Oregon in the depression era to work in the lumber and mining industries to reminisce on their family's journey.

Democratic (or as my dear hubby puts it "tassel toed, latte drinking liberals") in the urban areas and Republican conservatives in the rest of the State. Since Oregon votes by mail, it may be some time before we see the end of this race. I think it might be closer than we think.

And ...Titus....your dogs love you too.; 5/20/08, 11:15 PM
vbspurs said...: Quote from Obama's Iowa-Oregon speech:

"...by realizing that the best education starts with parents who turn off the TV, and take away the video games"

Are video games his v-chip?

That's not the first time he's mentioned video games dismissively.

"We’re going to have to parent better, and turn off the television set, and put the video games away"

It's funny because on Digg, there was a post saying that Obama is NOT anti-video games; that that was a Republican slander.

Poor Obama girls. Probably never played GTA San Andreas.; 5/20/08, 11:20 PM
vbspurs said...: Since Oregon votes by mail, it may be some time before we see the end of this race. I think it might be closer than we think.

With 55% of precincts reporting now:

Obama 58%
Clinton 42%

If it's true it might take a while, DBQ, maybe I'll go to sleep then.

BTW, tassle-toe. Heh!

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 11:26 PM
reader_iam said...: Victoria: Does all of that make you think of your country-of-origin in any way? I mean, in terms of recent and current proposals, and even implementations, over the past couple-so years--for teh children.; 5/20/08, 11:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Yes we can take away your Grand Theft Auto and make you do your homework. Also, you need to eat less and travel less. And stop being a redneck.; 5/20/08, 11:30 PM
reader_iam said...: For the record, I thought those ruminations or whatever were strikingly out of place, and therefore striking in their deliberate inclusion, in the speech (for the most part, a quite fine one, indeed, as campaign speeches go, viewed through a political speech prism). At this point in the political season and cyle, while mistakes can and will continue to happen, "accidents" constitue a whole 'nother category, and they are rare to the point of nonexistence.

So, given that, what was the point of that signal?; 5/20/08, 11:37 PM
blake said...: "...by realizing that the best education starts with parents who turn off the TV, and take away the video games"

That should cost him some of that youth vote.; 5/20/08, 11:38 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: "Yes we can take away your Grand Theft Auto and make you do your homework. Also, you need to eat less and travel less. And stop being a redneck."

You can try to pry World of Warcraft from my cold dead fingers! Well, unless I defect to Age of Conan which looks pretty interesting. That and my incandescent light bulbs.; 5/20/08, 11:39 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't know, Reader, but let me tell you: we've got to do something about these kids today. Why can't they be like we were?; 5/20/08, 11:39 PM
reader_iam said...: seven machos: Surely you're not baiting me to link to that Bye-Bye Birdie song! (Yikes, look what happened the last time I linked to something in response to something you said ... I screwed it up.)

Ok, 'fess up. You and Trooper have joined forces, and you're in league, at least with regard to me ... .

Shorter: No way, no how am I snappin' at that worm.

; ); 5/20/08, 11:46 PM
Anonymous said...: What's the matter with KIDS....TOOOODDDAAAYYYY?; 5/20/08, 11:48 PM
vbspurs said...: I mean, in terms of recent and current proposals, and even implementations, over the past couple-so years--for teh children.

My country is unrecognisable to me, Reader.

It is a different country than in my youth. I'm sure that's a common opinion of most people when they become adults.

But the UK was always a bastion of individuality and respect for civil liberties expressed by "an Englishman's home is his castle" -- i.e., government, hands off a private person's business.

That the Conservative Party are in favour of National IDs in the UK is anathema to me, as just one thing I can point out, Reader.

(BTW, transsexuals will get 2 IDs. Something to ponder about if you get National Health cards in the US -- it's a bureaucratic nightmare)

Honestly, I didn't leave a moment too soon. It's been 10 years now in July. There'll always be an England...in my heart. But I'm glad I am where I belong.

Re: 7Machos & Reader's comments on Obama's speech:

So, given that, what was the point of that signal?

That he will be a pro-family, pro-education president, who wants to send a message to parents to parent better.

Perhaps he wants to preempt replies that he wants to leave it to the conscience of parents, rather than having Child Services step in more.

I'm grasping at straws here, and giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But to me, it was yet another example of Obama talking down to people, by inferring what the problem is with Americans.

If it's not guns and religion, it's video games.

Just a question of time when he'll mention french fries.

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/20/08, 11:49 PM
blake said...: I don't know, Reader, but let me tell you: we've got to do something about these kids today. Why can't they be like we were?

Yeah, why, back in the day, we didn't have "Grand Theft Auto"! We had to make do with "Pac-Man"!

And no Marilyn Manson for us! We had Alice Cooper, and he was perfectly satanic enough, thank you very much!

[ETC]; 5/20/08, 11:51 PM
reader_iam said...: 7M (lalalalalalal i can't HEAR you lalalalala); 5/20/08, 11:52 PM
vbspurs said...: That should cost him some of that youth vote.

You think, Blake?

That demographic and those on the Left actually love to be told what to do -- if it comes from one of their own.

When JFK instituted a programme to make kids lose weight, and have more "vigah" Liberals cheered.

Then it's not Big Brother butting in and controlling their lives.

It's kindly Uncle Barack, who knows a thing or two about getting ahead via education, so pay attention!; 5/20/08, 11:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Alice Cooper is a scratch golfer now.

In 20 years, Fred Durst will have won an Oscar and Lil Wayne will be hosting a variety show. Not sure what the future holds for Marilyn Manson. Probably mayor a small town in Northern California.; 5/20/08, 11:56 PM
vbspurs said...: Alice Cooper is a scratch golfer now.

I love Alice Cooper, Seven Machos.

Like Frank Zappa, the guy was way ahead of his time, and had a true intellectual understanding of entertainment and his culture.

If interested, you can check out this Alice Cooper interview with Terry Gross.

Did you know he revered old vaudeville stars, and was good friends with Groucho Marx?

Groucho "got it" regarding Alice's provacateur shows.; 5/21/08, 12:01 AM
Revenant said...: unless I defect to Age of Conan which looks pretty interesting.

Yeah, that looks like a pretty interesting game. I might have to subscribe.; 5/21/08, 12:16 AM
vbspurs said...: Well, guys, the conversation is dwindling as we probably are going to sleep now.

Just wanted to mention this other line from his speech tonight:

Change is an energy policy that doesn't rely on buddying up to the Saudi royal family and then begging them for oil, an energy policy...

Buddying up to the Saudi Royal family...oooooh.

You give it to those nasty Saudis, Barack! We know you will open up the ANWR oil reserves in Alaska!

I wonder how that was received in Riyadh, if they even cared to notice.

But don't think they don't.

According to a poll I saw, some Pakistanis are pro-McCain because he and his wife adopted a Bangladeshi orphan, Bridget.

These kinds of things matter to some people.

Night all! :)

Victoria; 5/21/08, 12:16 AM
reader_iam said...: 7M: As a peace offering for refusing to take up the bait, I will share something with you (and others here and onlookers). Right around the time that I originally started blogging, at my original blog, I also started a folder in my iTunes labeled "Songs of Blogging," to which I regularly added over time, even after I stopped blogging (both times).

The entries are mostly far more edgy and much later and different in provenance (something that might surprise people, given what I ordinarily link, but never mind that). However, here's a video version of a sample from that folder, which song happens to have been a very early entry into it. And it is at least a flick of a nod toward you, seven machos, in honor of your ... temerity. And because I appreciated the good laugh, at my expense.

Seriously: LOL.; 5/21/08, 12:17 AM
Anonymous said...: If you look at the map of Kentucky's voting results and roll your mouse over the image, you can see the county-by-county vote counts. Some of them, particularly near the eastern border, show Barack Obama not even breaking the 10% mark.; 5/21/08, 12:25 AM
reader_iam said...: Personally, I love the stretching women and the men in underwear.; 5/21/08, 12:25 AM
reader_iam said...: Sorry, Verso: I know you're trying to make a serious point, and it's a good one. Carry on, please.; 5/21/08, 12:27 AM
reader_iam said...: (Not that you need me to tell you to ignore my silliness.); 5/21/08, 12:28 AM
former law student said...: Vermont allows any resident to carry firearms either openly or concealed -- that alone makes it worth a dozen other states. Vermont = Freedom.

Victoria: You may be interested to know that Oregon is slightly larger (3-4%) than the United Kingdom.; 5/21/08, 1:03 AM
vbspurs said...: Thanks, FLS. I had thought it was Nebraska (!).

BTW, update on the Amazon Kindle. It arrives Thursday, but I already subscribed to NYT, Instapundit, LGF, and Le Monde. The only UK newspaper offered was the Independent, which ironically I always take back home, but I didn't want to form out this time. No Times, no Telegraph...

Oh, and no Althouse. :((; 5/21/08, 1:16 AM
vbspurs said...: /did take; 5/21/08, 1:17 AM
Anonymous said...: I hope that when HRC finally concedes victory to BHO that Ruben Studdard sings 'Celebrate Me Home'. That would be a nice touch.

When (not if) HRC finally loses the primary, I'd bet that her next steps will be to divorce that albatross WJC, write another book to replenish her coffers, jettison all the advisors WJC foisted on her for this run at the oval office, re-tool her image and run again for the 2012 nomination.; 5/21/08, 2:10 AM
TitusAllTheLeavesAreBrown said...: Vermont's fabulous.

Don't kick it out of the country just because it isn't patriotic and republican.

New Hampshire is live free or die and very libertarian. Don't kick New Hampshire out.

How about kicking out Mississippi or Alabama?; 5/21/08, 6:30 AM
Jennifer said...: Not sure, Victoria. Both of those are conservative counties, Jackson in the South and Grant in Eastern Oregon.

Not having ever been to Vermont, maybe my opinion on this isn't authoritative. But, as a seventh generation Oregonian - the first born west of the Cascades - I feel comfortable declaring that there is nowhere in Oregon quite like some of what I've encountered in the rural South. And I haven't even seen Kentucky yet. The areas I mentioned: Portland, Eugene, Corvallis and Bend, hold about three-quarters of the state's population. The coast leans right and much of southern and Eastern Oregon does as well. But we're talking about less than a quarter of the people.

And, while we're discussing race and racism, I keep hearing that Kentucky is "overwhelmingly white", but Oregon is blindingly white. Not sure why that isn't being mentioned...; 5/21/08, 6:38 AM
Mortimer Brezny said...: The Obama supporters truly are becoming despicable in their desperation.

What desperation? It's called a joke. And for the record, I am not an Obama supporter. I am a supporter of the Democratic Party's nominee.; 5/21/08, 9:01 AM
Trooper York said...: I am curious Mort. Where you referring to the diameter or the circumference?; 5/21/08, 10:29 AM
blake said...: And, while we're discussing race and racism, I keep hearing that Kentucky is "overwhelmingly white", but Oregon is blindingly white. Not sure why that isn't being mentioned...

'cause they'd love black people, if they ever actually met any.; 5/21/08, 2:07 PM
vbspurs said...: And, while we're discussing race and racism, I keep hearing that Kentucky is "overwhelmingly white", but Oregon is blindingly white. Not sure why that isn't being mentioned...

'Cause they're the Good White People, Jennifer.

The ones who can see beyond a guy's skin colour and just vote for him because he's a Socialist.

You'll notice that NO ONE, not one single pundit of the left side, has commended white blue-collar Kentucky males for apparently not being sexist.

No, the angle is just that they're racist. So does that make the Oregonians who didn't for Hillary, sexist?

You bet it does. ;)

And thanks for the answer, Jennifer!

Cheers,
Victoria; 5/21/08, 3:45 PM
vbspurs said...: /who didn't vote for Hillary...; 5/21/08, 3:46 PM
Kirby Olson said...: So you're a sexist if you're not for Hillary, a racist if you're not for Barack, and a classist if you're not for Edwards.

That pretty much covers everything.; 5/21/08, 4:11 PM
Fen said...: Even Fox have some token oppositional voice on their panel.

Heh. Have you every tangled with Bob Beckel? I would hardly call him token ;); 5/23/08, 5:05 AM