November 11, 2006

Veterans Day, Madison, Wisconsin.

An American woman:

Veterans Day

The Korean war veteran:

Veterans Day

The Young Marines:

Veterans Day

The Patriot Guard Riders:

Veterans Day

After taking these pictures, I go to my usual café, find a table, and start working on getting them uploaded. I hear a middle aged woman talking to the barista:
What is it? Veterans Day? There are soldiers everywhere.

Her voice drops a note on the words "veterans" and "soldiers." She's got a slight sarcastic tone as if she thinks she's saying something funny.

Imagine. Soldiers. In Madison.

IN CASE IT ISN'T OBVIOUS: To all the veterans, thank you. My parents were WWII veterans. I do not exist except as something that came from veterans. We all owe our world to the service of veterans. Your world is more real than ours. Today, I saw a veteran carrying a banner that said, "Freedom is not free." We know we owe that to you. And we are all humbled by your service. I feel that especially, because I know that I would never have lived if my mother had not felt an insipiration to join the Army and met my father there.


Ruth Anne Adams said...

Did you explain the significance of poppies to her?

Anonymous said...

or maybe it was just weird to see packs of soldiers roaming the streets?

... i miss madison coffee shops. maybe the democrats can redistribute madison's coffee wealth to more needy areas... like the twin cities.

lucas m said...

Sometimes, People's lack of awareness makes me sad.

aimai said...

Guess she thought that after the disasterous democratic win the soldiers were there to protect america from the immiediate invasion of the islamofascists and the democrats...I mean that is what I thought when I saw soldiers in the streets. At last, thought I, every single thing that rush limbaugh and karl rove said about a potential democratic win has come true.


Ernie Fazio said...

Anne, I saw your Bloggingheads TV with Amy Sullivan, and loved it. I saw the discussion turn on her insider liberal pol experience and your plague on both their houses perspective. And I think I had a revelation about you. Living in Madison, like living in Berkeley, can make a thinking person react to the slurr of an unthinking, "anti-military" person on the street. That type of person does not live in Green Bay, West Bend, or Oshkosh nor in Piedmont, Castro Valley or Stockton. You are a victim of the "liberal academic cocoon" of Madison. You need to go to the University of Chicago or maybe Pepperdine (sorry). What say you about the fact that Madison is a sweet liberal enclave where the insensitive person on the street espouses liberal/feminist/ environmentalist drivel rather than the normal racist/gun loving/gay hating drivel from a redneck from the heartlands. Is it possible that you are a contrarian who finds herself in pepperland and objects to the atmosphere?

Anonymous said...

But don't question her patriotism. She supports the troops!

Dan from Madison said...

Too bad the woman wasn't around 150 years ago - talk about soldiers in Madison - anyone ever heard of Camp Randall and its original purpose?

DookOfURL said...

Speaking of "naive" "hateful" and soldiers, your very own special Kevin Barrett said on his last day at UW that " Your tax dollars are paying for the killing of American soldiers in Iraq. The CIA is paying for resistance in Iraq."

Happy Veterans Day!

Joe Giles said...

Did she have a Portuguese accent and answer to Teresa?

Slac said...

There are many veterans who don't talk about their past, or at least they don't advertise it. I was surprised to find out that a person I've known for the past six months was actually in Iraq last year.

They're all around us.

paul a'barge said...

I spent the afternoon in Annapolis, in beautiful weather, giving cigars to midshipmen, thanking them for their service to our country. I toured the USNA, saw John Paul Jones' tomb and the Naval Academy chapel. I took pictures of USMC members, and both men and women midshipmen. I always rememberd to thank them for their service to our country.

Meanwhile, up in Wisconsin ...

Well, you get the point.

David Killoren said...

Re: Ernie Fazio's comment:

I think Ann's actually offered something like the explanation for her views that you give. That is, I think she's admitted that she is a contrarian and therefore leans further right than she would if she lived in a less lefty town. (I don't have a link, but if somebody presses me on this, I might be willing to dig around and try to find one.)

When it's pointed out that being a contrarian is actually a pretty crappy reason to choose one side over another, I think Ann's normal response is to say that she's "just doing this for fun" and doesn't take the whole blogging enterprise seriously. She never explains why it's so much fun to say the opposite of what your neighbors say; that seems like a pretty simple-minded form of entertainment to me. Then again, Ann spends a lot of time watching reality shows, and I don't see what's fun about that, either.

Badger said...

For some reason, I doubt this conversation ever happened, and I'm getting pretty sick and tired of people like O'Reilly out and out slandering Madison -- and people like Althouse dropping bullshit popcorn trails leading to some mythical anti-war population. I guess to some people, a pipe shop, and a bead shop on State Street counts as far left. Please read what Forbes, and Money Magazine say about Madison, and its booming bio-tech and health care sectors, highly skilled work base, low cost of doing business, and 3% unemployment rate. Why doesn't she tell you they have ranked it #1 city live in America, and in the top #10 many times?

I've been here 35 yrs, and anyone that has ever lived here, or even visited here, has nothing but great things to say about Madison.

Madison has the highest number of Ph.D.s per capita, and 3rd highest number of college graduates per capita, than any other city in the America. I think this is what really frightens her.

[updated] I can add Paul A'Barge to the clueless, uninformed chattering classes.

Kirby Olson said...

I think that that kind of Democrat is what got Zell Miller into a frenzy.

Ward Churchill said that our volunteer troops should shoot their officers in the back of the head.

I think it's probably healthy that someone says the opposite of what all their neighbors are saying.

There's nothing more frightening than a conga line.

Only individuals exists. Ann is an individual. Therefore she exists.

David Killoren said...

Re: Kirby Olson's weird comment:

Being a contrarian isn't a way to express your individuality. You're still moving with the herd; if the herd changes its mind, you have to change your mind too. The way to express your individuality is to make your judgment independently of others' opinions, and to stick with it, whether the others agree with you or not.

Ann Althouse said...

David Killoren, your interpretations of my words and thoughts are pretty far off. I don't choose political opinions for fun. I may select which opinions to express and choose my form of expression out of a sense of how the people I know react to things, but that isn't the same. If I were surrounded by right wingers instead of left wingers, the snipes I'd take would be at right wingers, because those would be the people who were annoying me. I'm still in the same position.

As to watching reality shows, I watch about 1 or 2 hours a week, and I watch about 0 hours of fiction TV (comedies and dramas). If you think that's a lot, you're a prig.

Badger thinks I made up the quote in the post. Man, if I were making up quotes on this blog, there'd be a lot more quotes and they'd be much more scathing and funny. If I have it in quotes it's as near to verbatim as I can get it. And that one is either verbatim or one word off -- and only because of memory failure, not intent to distort.

You folks who like the idea of portraying me as dishonest need to look elsewhere for the fulfilment of your grubby little hopes. Losers.

vnjagvet said...


Are you accusing your hostess here of lying about something she actually witnessed?

Pretty serious accusation if you ask me.

You sound unhinged.

Anonymous said...

Got curious about Badger's mention that Madison ranks #1 in PhDs per capita.

Could be. Forbes reported that in 2004.

But I also found this... (ranked in order)

1. Champaign/Urbana/Rantoul 173 4541 26.245
Sante Fe, NM 117 3043 26.042
State College, PA 124 3094 24.995
Bryon/College Station TX 122 2989 24.528
Ann Arbor, MI 283 6825 24.122
Iowa City, IA 96 2307 24.001
Lawrence, KA 82 1900 23.228
Columbia, MO 112 2468 21.961
Lafayette/West Lafayette IN 131 2816 21.562
Boulder/Longmong, CO 225 4800 21.301
Bloomington, IN 109 2246 20.610
Athens, GA 156 3154 20.183
Gainesville, FL 204 4057 19.876
Charlottesville, VA 131 2455 18.725
Trenton, NJ 326 5743 17.626
Raleigh/Durham, NC 735 12561 17.079
Madison, WI 367 5762 15.697
Fort Collins/Loveland, CO 186 2704 14.527
Tallahassee, FL 234 3177 13.600
Boston, MA 2871 34916 12.163

Not sure how Trenton made the list.

knox said...

Please read what Forbes, and Money Magazine say about Madison, and its booming bio-tech and health care sectors, highly skilled work base, low cost of doing business, and 3% unemployment rate. Madison has the highest number of Ph.D.s per capita, and 3rd highest number of college graduates per capita, than any other city in the America...

I can see you think you're making a big point here, but most people realized a long time ago that the vast majority of liberals are college-educated and well-off. They stopped representing the Average Joe a long time ago. Telling us that Madison is a liberal enclave AND very prosperous is hardly edifying.

The Drill SGT said...

Anne said...
What is it? Veterans Day? There are soldiers everywhere.

I'd like to rip her head off, but on the other hand, I'm a Vet. My mother is the same sort. George Orwell said it best...

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

ziemer said...

badger, do the math.

it's pretty obvious why madison has so many phds per capita; its a college town in a hick burg --just like all the other towns on the list. doesn't make it a great place to live.

by the way, trenton made the list because rutgers is there.

as far as low unemployment goes, again, its a hick burg with a huge college (and the state capitol). if you have thousands of people with disposable money (students) and no jobs, there will be no unemployment among the locals. do the math.

again, doesn't make it a great place to live.

oh, and as for the original purpose of camp randall, i believe it was to imprison civil war rioters.

Badger said...

vnjagvet -

Perhaps I could have been more subtle, as Ann is, and to suggest that this post is one of an annoyingly long line of posts sniping at liberals, and Democrats patriotism. And with O'Reilly, take with a grain of salt. The fact it was on Veterans Day, and she felt compelled to "report" it, is even more dubious.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to Wisconsin!

We Are Practically Canadians!

(at least until the Eeeevil Boooosh Regime is impeached!!!)

At least that's what I see as a subtext to Prof. Althouse's eavesdropped coffeehouse conversation.

And maybe it's a good idea to remember that what once was known as Armistice Day hereabouts (and is still Remembrance Day in most of the Commonwealth), didn't stay a day to commemorate the last war to end all wars, and instead due to excessive appeasement in the face of an obviously evil fascistic movement, Europe had to soon fight another war to end all wars (which also failed to end all wars, though Western European nations have managed not to attack each other since then).

Lessons for the here and now abound, hopefully the Democratic leadership are listening (Questioning their patriotism? No! Questioning their resolve? Yes! Will I also miss Rumsfeldian auto-question answering? Good Gosh Yes!)

And a big hearty thank you to all Veterans, American, Canadian, British, Australian, and more recent allies like the Poles and Kurds, just to name a few, who have fought in opposition to fascism, communism, and all the other antagonistic -isms that hate liberty and therefore hate the United States.

Badger said...


It doesn't really matter if you think Madison is a good place to live. Really. Or my opinion. The fact the a Forbes, or Money Magazine could rank it #1, based on many factors, does lay credence to my point that Madison is from a little dirty hippie town.

Do you live in Madison?

Kirby Olson said...

What the left wants is to dance with Al-Qaida as our cities burn.

A thousand Mogadishus!

knox said...

Ann, I second the sentiment at the end of your post. My father's father died in WWII, and his adopted father served in WWII, along with his german shepard, "Ole Boy."

Slac said...

Uh, are we reading the same blog? Althouse regularly posts pictures on Madison's beauty. I've been to Madison many times and I'm only bothered because I'm jealous, especially with this post. It'd be nice to live in a city where so many people can afford to be blissfully unaware of certain things. What luxury!

knox said...


All you have to do is surf around a bit on the internets to run across a lot of people who sound like the woman Ann quoted. Your protestations ring hollow as a result. I'm sorry you're in the same political camp as these people, and obviously you don't agree with them. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

Badger (and some others) assume a high level of PhDs is some kind of a plus.

Universities and their surrounding towns have become refugia for Marxists and other such lost souls. I don't care if someone has a Ph.D or not.

I've got more alphabet soup I could put after my name that most folks -- first two degrees in geology and then went on to soils and agronomy.

The dumbest $#!+s I've ever seen -- consistently -- have been the Ph.Ds in agronomy working for the UN's FAO. Peruvians with perhaps a Grade III education understand vastly more about what makes the world work.

Funny thing is that the academic set are just as ignorant about politics as they are about the real-world applications of most "disciplines."

Academic towns are liberal because they're largely out of touch with the real world. They can afford to operate on feelings because they're well paid and well fed.

Too bad most of 'em have never had to make a payroll (as I have), or had to dodge bullets (as I also have). It might change their perspective a bit.

Icepick said...

Zeimer, I wouldn't want to live in Madison, but that's solely because of the weather. And calling it a hick burg with a big college (and in Madison's case the state capitol) doesn't capture the flavor of a place like that at all. It's a college town.

College towns are great places to live. You get the advantages of a smaller town (less traffic & congestion, closer connection to the community as a whole, more access to wide open sapces), but also get a lot of cultural opportunities that aren't normally available in small towns. I would love to live in a college town again, and will seriously consider moving to one when/if I retire. College towns rock!

PS For the record, I'm a conservative. The fact that the vast majority of residents in a collge town are liberal really doesn't matter.

vnjagvet said...


If you are so suspicious, why not go elsewhere? It is not likely that many of us would miss you.

For someone so new here, you might consider being less confrontational.

Badger said...


Instead of showcasing the overwhelmingly vast majority of patriotic Madisonians on Veterans Day, she chooses (again) to take the cheap, devisive low road. How about a real patriotic thread -- maybe even something so crazy as sharing stories of family members who served our country?

The PhD crack was an obvious wisecrack to Ann's intelligence, as she presumably must interact with intellectuals at the UW. But you guys really need to update your census data on Madison, it seems you're 35 yrs out of date.

Juliet said...

Instead of showcasing the overwhelmingly vast majority of patriotic Madisonians on Veterans Day...

Like the ones in the pictures?

Anonymous said...


The political spectrum has good and bad on both ends. Right-leaning bigots have varied and well-documented hatreds, while left-leaning bigots tend to hate America, soldiers, religious people, and the poor. (That's right, you heard me. They hate the poor.) Left-leaning bigots, however, tend to get a pass for some mysterious reason.

Does this totally rock your world, Badger? I don't think so. Like you've never heard a lefty heap scorn on the military. Lefties and the military are like the Klan and blacks. This is not divisive. It is true. If you don't like it, don't blame Ann. Clean house.

David Killoren said...

Re: Ann Althouse's response to my comment:

OK, let me see if I have this straight. You're granting that the opinions you express and the form in which you express them are both affected by the opinions of your neighbors. But that's OK, you think, because your political opinions themselves remain unaffected by the opinions of your neighbors. Do I have that right? If so, I have a couple responses:

1. Choosing a political opinion just because your neighbor disagrees with it is pretty lame. But choosing to _express_ a political opinion just because your neighbor disagrees with it is also lame. In either case, your neighbor gets to lead you around by the nose. And when the vast majority of those reading your expressed opinions aren't your neighbors, but blog readers from around the world, it becomes not only lame, but also weird.

1. Normally, it's fair to assume that the opinions a person expresses are well-representative of their actual opinions. You seem to be saying that's not true of you. OK, but you can see why people are confused, right? Those of us not living inside your head don't have access to your inner thoughts; we only have access to the opinions you express. If we didn't make judgments about others' opinions based on which opinions they express, we'd need a betazoid on hand for every conversation.

3. I'd say 1 or 2 _minutes_ of reality TV is a lot -- not because I'm a prig, exactly, but because those shows are boring as hell. :)

astrolabe said...

Ann Althouse noted that she overheard a woman say:

“What is it? Veterans Day? There are soldiers everywhere.”

Badger responded:

“… The fact it was on Veterans Day, and she felt compelled to "report" it, is even more dubious.”

Badger, on which day do you expect to hear a comment that refers to Veterans Day?

Jim Hu said...

I don't live in Madison now, but I did for many years and I visit pretty often. I agree that it's a great place to live. Being a great place to live - or enriched for the educated - doesn't mean it's free of idiots.

Mr. Forward said...

"Like the ones in the pictures?" Juliet at 8:09 pm

Thank you, Juliet. I was just about to scroll back up and see if I had only imagined the people in the pictures.

JorgXMcKie said...

Having lived in or very near several 'college towns' (i.e. small cities where the major employer was a state university and the 'townie' full-time population was barely a majority over the 'gown' college population) I can say that they're great fun to live in as long as you can handle the strong Leftist opinion cocoon and the inability of most to admit that the place is only prosperous because it exists mostly on tax funds taken from their less-educated fellow citizens. (College funds from tax sources -- direct grants, tuition paid by tax-subsidized grants and loans and other funds directed from state govt to the university are usually well over 2/3 of the total.)

Good restaurants, good entertainment, usually decent government and so on make them good places to live. However, in many ways they are parasitic on the rest of the state's population.

Also, I tend to resent the condescension directed at the non-Academic world that is so often a part of the culture.

It reminds me of the deliberate obtuseness demonstrated on this thread by a couple of posters. Disingenuousness is hardly a sound basis for debate, no matter how highly the person demonstrating it thinks of him/herself.

Wickedpinto said...

I hope you don't mind, I copied your IN CASE IT ISN'T OBVIOUS: quote into another thread.

I made sure I referenced you (in a sarcastic sorta way that agree's with your basic expression, but I mentioned you and quoted you without saying so before hand.

I hope you don't mind.

Anonymous said...

baddger: "Perhaps I could have been more subtle, as Ann is, and to suggest that this post is one of an annoyingly long line of posts sniping at liberals"
vnjagvet: "Badger: If you are so suspicious, why not go elsewhere?"
knoxgirl: liberal crazies exist!!!
johnny nucleo: Lefties and the military are like the Klan and blacks!!!

I like Ann's blog cause it's well written and has some great madison pics. But, I cannot stand any more of these posts, so I'm finally taking it off the ol' RSS feed.

Yea, the coffee shop conversation probably happened (unlike some who thought it was a lie). But, it may have been misinterpreted and even if it wasn't, why the post "sniping at liberals" yet again?

Because it fits the Althouse template! Here it is:

Post a slightly ambiguous political statement. (does "counterpoint" mean the opposite of remembering troops is always crazy lefties? discuss!), This will imply to your audience, "See, conservatives? Worldview confirmed! Those crazy lefties always do [tired stereotype]!" This could be most effective on "anti-liberal holidays" ... like Veteran's Day!

People like Kirby or Johnny Nucleo will eat it up, and a liberal will feel slightly irritated. This liberal will say something like "But i do support the troops! I do support a free and stable Mideast!" This obviously won't be believed.

Then they'll be a typical response: "Oh I didn't mean [lefty stereotype]!" (I am just courageously reporting on environment!) Distinguish the facts.

Sometimes, a far lefty commenter will pop up, saying something reeeally inflammatory which confirms that every liberal is Cindy Sheehan. (unfortunately we missed that here). More back and forth. (What a great exchange for Veterans Day!)

The original liberal gets tired of pleading stuff like liberals and the military aren't, like the KKK and blacks. And if the original post was designed for this effect, what's the point anyway?

It's like a slow motion O'Reilly.

Kathyb said...

My husband's mother's only brother was killed in WW2. I asked my husband today if he knew where his uncle was buried, and if the body was there. He didn't. She has lived since the 1940's with this pain. I alway thank her today. Her life was changed forever as was mine. Her brother made my life free. She lives with the loss. She lives north of Madison and does not dwell on what she lost she hopes always that her brother's sacrifice is remembered.

The Drill SGT said...

kathyb said...
My husband's mother's only brother was killed in WW2. I asked my husband today if he knew where his uncle was buried,

The ABMC link below has a database of 173 thousand WWII casulties that you can sure for your husband's uncle. Thanks for his sacrifice. Watch the D Day Video while you are there.

American Battle Monuments Commission

The Drill SGT said...

Ruth Anne Adams said...
Did you explain the significance of poppies to her?

The Brits do Remembrance Day much better than we do Veterans Day.

The Drill SGT said...


If I didn;t have that pain in the a$$ link in there, I'd just repost it.


stephenb said...

Prof. Althouse:

Thanks for your kind words for veterans today. I honor the commitment of people like your parents and my grandfather.

Thanks also to you, Drill SGT, wherever you are. Are you Drill Sergeant Maniscalco, the gruffest man I ever knew and my first encounter with your kind? Or are you Drill Sergeant Young, a somewhat milder yet equally firm disciplinarian and teacher? Whoever you are, thank you and thank your brethren.

I regret to say that today I did not in any way participate in the honoring of those who served. I was instead touring a law school with the intention of putting my future JD to use in the service of the Army's JAG Corps.

To the rest of you out there who served, thank you as well. To those of you out there who would impugn the service and commitment of these fine individuals, sleep well. They've got your back anyway.

Badger said...

And if the original post was designed for this effect, what's the point anyway?

Count me as guilty. There is just something about this latest post, that really gets on my nerves. An unecessary poke at somone in Madison that didn't "support the troops". On Veterans Day. As if.

Come get your Madison anti-war troop hating liberal here, while it's hot.

If matters little how you get there, or the original intent, we all know where it will lead. And in the end, at least regarding Madison, there is no there there.

Debra J.M. Smith said...

Hi.. I thought you and your readers may like to read this speech given to over 250 veterans:


Cedarford said...

As a Vet, Anne, thanks as well for marking the day and saying some nice words about Vets and your parents.

I'm reading a WWI book now and occasionally reflecting on my great grandfather who once served in the Calvary out West. I have the saber that he supposedly used to sever the head of an outlaw fleeing his unit on horseback. He went to dental school and when WWI was assembling the Expeditionary Force, he tried to enlist but was told he was too old to fight but could become a Dental Officer. Somehow, while treating Frenchies, they came under attack and he got into action as a Dentist not speaking a word of French who gathered up and led a French calvary squad to rout and shoot up a German raiding party - which pissed off the French officers who scattered, but got him a bravery citation (framed in my Dad's house). The French under him that day supposedly confused his Dental Officer Corps badge with a colonial calvary officer, said he clearly rode better than most French calvary - and also got bravery citations. His ultimate reward from his Dentist superiors was to be considered a bad, bad middle-aged dentist-warrior mucking about in unauthorized combat and got direct orders to a rear echelon medical facility. Supposedly, in family legend, he reminded his son, our grandfather, that Doc Holliday was a dentist too...So don't mess with dentists!

Grand-dads were both in WWII. One was shot up in Sicily but lived with a bad limp. Dad was in and was in combat in S America. I was in and made the Gulf War as a reservist officer.

My kids all reject military service for being the money-making or humanitarian "Professionals" their liberal teachers taught them they should be, given their grades and talents at the time...but none are hostile to the military and not just it would piss off their Dad and surviving Grand-dad.

One of my sister's though, raised her kids in Massachusetts with a Lefty professor Dad - and all her kids are also flaming, indoctrinated to loath the "homophobic" military - Lefties.

Anyways, happy Vets Day to the Vets and their descendents out there!

The Drill SGT said...

Cedarford said...
a Dentist not speaking a word of French who gathered up and led a French calvary squad to rout and shoot up a German raiding party

Ah, the first rule of the calvary.

Or get the hell out of the way!

Anonymous said...

I worked at the Golden Gate National Cemetery and every day I would see stones from people who were 19, 20, 21 years old when they died. So we could have the freedoms we enjoy today.

Wickedpinto said...

In the Clinton military, I saw ONE change, it was purely idealogical. It was the enforcement of common causes. "HONOR COURAGE COMMITMENT!!!"

the order doesn't matter, and the truth is that Clinton doesn't matter, a 'pub would have gutted the millitary also, though maybe less so.

When you serve, even in peace time you hear the calls of "HONOR COURAGE COMMITMENT" and even if you don't take them seriously (I did, before I even joined) you start to experience service, and you learn.

It takes about 2 weeks out of MOS AIT Advance school to learn that you aren't an explorer collegiate, but rather someone with a job, a job that noone else is equipped to do, a job that if the time comes that you can no longer stand, you might become a hereditary victim of oppression, giving into every offense you find.

If you haven't served, you will think that you will be a "wolverine" but you aren't willing to understand them.

Everyone who serves, even in peacetime, has etched their names on "partisan rock" guaranteeing that we all live as we live, and we all live to begin with, that we all live hoping to serve, and that we live knowing we must not.

(I don't like yapping on vet's or the MC Birthday, those are my days, but today? you don't have to lie anymore you can say what you please without violating the sanctity of those days)

Those who served, even my peacetime pissantishness, have done infinately more for this nation than anyone who ignored the nation for a BS or a PHD.

(before you talk about how it's BS and PHD's who built this nation, mind you, EVERYONE who signed the declaration had a level of education that is (based on temporal inflation) MUCH more significant than yours.)

Hamilton was a grunt, who found a way to become an aide de camp.

Hamilton, the first self made American, though he could never be president.

I can continue, but it would be even more pedantic than I already am.

lucas m said...

I have to say that when I read Ann's statement about the woman in the coffee shop, I didn't see it as liberal bashing, or a grand statement on the politics of Madison, or a view of 'armed services hating lefties'....It seemed to me to be pointing out that for every one who pays respects and celebrates veteran's day, there those who don't...
There was no need to insult anyone. If you wish to observe Veteran's Day, fine. If not, that's fine too. Ann captured both, and did an elequent job of it.

AllenS said...

Thanks, Ann.

NSC said...

Madison has the highest number of Ph.D.s per capita, and 3rd highest number of college graduates per capita, than any other city in the America. I think this is what really frightens her.

All the more reason to believe the conversation occured just as she stated. There is no love-lost between the acadamic elite and the military.

Wispered and not-so-wispered conversations like this take place all the time within the left. And when they are talking they are running recruiters off of campuses or dousing their offices with red paint.

Don't call her a liar because she pointed it out.

My wife and I, both vets, thank the men and women serving now and those who served before us. And we don't have to lower our voices to do it.

Anonymous said...

Although I've never been to Wisconsin, my great, great, great, Uncle Hiram David Haskins was killed at Pilots Knob in 1865 during the final days of the Civil War. He was a Lieutenant with the 110th New York Volunteers. His picture in uniform complete with sword and him sporting a full beard is in my foyer.

Veteran's day was originally observed on November 11th, moved to the fourth monday in October, and then moved back to November 11th. That may explain some of the confusion surrounding remembrance.

David said...


We wouldn't need ad hoc groups like the Patriot Guard Riders, of whom I am a member, if there were not certifiable loons out there preying on grief and sacrifice for a chance at monetary gain! Also, the fact that most universities make life miserable, if not outright ban, military recruiters on a college campus in direct violation of the Solomon Ammendment, deserves to be brought to the attention of the public.

Prof. Althouse presents timely observations on matters of import, and securely within the context of recent events. Now that you have control of the House and Senate, we will see how you do!

Pass the coffee and popcorn!

MD said...

Wow, she really hit a nerve with some of you. And some of you must see all kinds of interesting things in an ink-blot test, because how you get from her point A to your point B.......

Derve said...

"I would never have lived if my mother had not felt an insipiration to join the Army and met my father there."

You make me remember the son of Graner and England. He turned 2 in mid-October. I wonder if he'll serve later, determined to prove himself. He won't have anything easy in life I suspect, but I wish the child well.

I always liked the American Legion crowd because they didn't surgarcoat. Smoky place to work though.

Dave said...

Impugning the service of those who defend out freedoms is disgusting.

Like Ann I live in a bastion of liberals (New York City) and, I believe like her, I look at them with, at best, bemused contempt.

Perhaps it takes a certain kind of person who can at once live among the leftwing and look at them with a certain clinical detachment. I know I see daily the depredations of allegedly "smart" people who nonetheless fall victim to the Pauline Kael effect every time an issue outside their limited world view comes to the fore (military service being the most common issue about which liberals are confused and perplexed).

I don't pretend to know any soldiers, my father and uncle did not serve in Vietnam, and my grandfathers were responsible for treating injured soldiers on American soil and drafting plans for the defense of New York harbor. As any historically literate person could tell you, their "sacrifice," such as it was, was far less than many other veterans'. Neither was so much as shot at or injured.

knox said...

people like O'Reilly
It's like a slow motion O'Reilly.
with O'Reilly, take with a grain of salt

I would just like to say "Congratulations, you've arrived" to Bill O'Reilly, even though I can't stand him. Used to be that liberals would come out with the old "You sound like Rush Limbaugh!" rejoinder whenever faced with an argument they couldn't win. Now O'Reilly is starting to catch up... three references in one thread!!!

Badger said...

I know I see daily the depredations of allegedly "smart" people who nonetheless fall victim to the Pauline Kael effect every time an issue outside their limited world view comes to the fore (military service being the most common issue about which liberals are confused and perplexed).

Hate to burst your bubble here. Your side doesn't "own" the military. Your side doesn't "own" the Flag. Your side doesn't "own" partriotism. Never have.

I don't think my Father was confused. He was a liberal. He joined in 1943, was stationed in Bury St Edmunds, became a Navigator on a B-24 named the Liberty Belle and flew 39 missions over Germany that dropped ungodly amounts of tonnage on the enemy. He was part of the "Lucky Bastard Club"

All I'm saying is that you are in treacherous waters anytime you question an American's patriotism based along a party line.

Paddy O said...


You're like a drunk wandering in a bar intending to pick a fight.

Anyone says anything and you respond with a predetermined harangue.

Did you get into a harsh argument with someone recently, but don't feel the ability to yell back at them all the things you wish you said?

shmopot said...

Attended Madison’s Veteran’s Day ceremonies at the Capitol. The modest sized crowd was reminded that WWI ended on the eleventh day, of the eleventh month, at the eleventh hour. A polished VFW band led by Jim Latimer fill the rotunda with music, as did a children’s choir singing acapella. Gov. Doyle was a no-show; he sent a sub. Rep. Baldwin talked about growing government to care for the troops. The comments of John Scocos, head of Veteran’s Affairs, were positively morose (he read his same comments that ran in the WSJ). I can’t imagine anyone being inspired to follow this man anywhere. The Colors were presented with salutes and hands- over-hearts followed by The Pledge of Allegiance. Civil War re-enactors were present as were Sons of The American Revolution. A parade formed on the Square and moved down State Street with marching bands and all branches of the armed services, men and women, represented. This was the second consecutive Veteran’s Day parade in Madison in about 30 years, thanks in part to the efforts of the U of WI ROTC.

NSC said...

Hate to burst your bubble here. Your side doesn't "own" the military. Your side doesn't "own" the Flag. Your side doesn't "own" partriotism. Never have.

No we don't own any of those things . . but . . we are the side that supports our military unconditionally no matter what war they are fighting, and we are the side that doesn't mind swearing alliegance to that flag, and we are the side that talks up our country instead of talking it down.

We treat those things as if we own them - you treat like you are renting.

paul a'barge said...

On Veterans Day, what contribution did you make?

Hint: nothing.

Speaks volumes about you, doesn't it?

Randy said...

How sad that Governor Doyle could not be bothered to show up (unless he was elsewhere attending another similar ceremony).

The same holds true for any Governor who failed to personally honor the fallen on Veterans Day.

Anonymous said...

I've lived in Madison for 50 years Badger, and I'd say there are a lot of people here who, while wishing the soldiers well and being grateful for their service, view them as not exactly the cream of society's crop (pretty much along the lines of what John Kerry said, whether or not that's what he meant). This opinion is more prevalant among the UW crowd than the general population. Just my experience.

Unknown said...

To the person above who talked about Hiram David Haskins, I would love a photo of his portrait for my genealogy. He was my 3rd great grandfather. I do have one photo of him but I am not sure it is the same one you have. Please contact me at