Patterico notes. Captain Ed comments.
Kos is taking a poll. "Do you agree with outing Gay Republicans?" 70% say "yes. But don't you think this percentage would change if the strategy backfires? I think aggressive characters like our "lefty blogger" think that uncovering gay Republicans will disgust social conservatives and change their voting behavior. They might also believe that they are demonstrating hypocrisy and that doing so will motivate Republicans to abandon social conservatism. I would like to see Republicans abandon social conservatism, and I'm not cheering on these slimy outings. But, honestly, I think these creepy, gleeful efforts at outing will only make social conservatives more conservative, and they will continue to look to the Republican party to serve their needs.
October 18, 2006
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205 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 205 of 205downtownlad:
"Of course as society becomes more and more tolerant, people will have no issues coming out, and the fear of outing, and the consequences thereof will be zero."
The problem with forcible outing is that it reinforces the association in the public mind between being gay and having a destructive, shameful secret. Not a great way to further tolerance, I don't think.
knoxgirl:
"It kills me how people are jumping on this thread talking shit about every gay who's in the closet."
I think there are a few distinctions you're not making. One is between respecting someone's right to live a certain way and thinking it's a good way to live.
Another is among types of closetedness. Some people are struggling with how to come out; they'll do it eventually, but they haven't figured out the best way yet. You can't fault them for that. Then there are those who don't discuss their sexuality in public in the same way they don't discuss their income or the size of their inheritance--they're discreet about something they don't think is anyone else's business. Fine.
But then you have the types who are closeted in a settled, self-serving way that lets them play both ends against the middle. They want to have a flaming good time with the Brotherhood by night, play hetero in public for social and career gain by day--and then expect other gay people to commiserate with them about how tough it is. Well, sorry. If the trade-off you've decided to make involves cutting off your emotional life from your day-to-day existence, that's your business. But I don't see why gay people who are out and honest should feel guilty for not sympathizing.
If the trade-off you've decided to make involves cutting off your emotional life from your day-to-day existence, that's your business. But I don't see why gay people who are out and honest should feel guilty for not sympathizing
That doesn't make much sense to me. I like going to strip clubs now and then because, hey -- nudity. But I know that a lot of men, and a LOT of women, find that sort of thing immoral or demeaning to women or yadda yadda yadda, so even though I think they're being silly I keep quiet about it. I similiarly appreciate my associates and coworkers keeping quiet about their sexual secrets. It isn't that I give a shit if they think I'm immoral, its that I happen to like my life and my relationships they way they are now, and lack the flair for drama that makes some people want to shock and dismay their less open-minded friends and neighbors.
The reason for feeling sympathy for other people is because they need it. Not because you're impressed by how forthcoming they are about their sex life. There's no real reason to sympathize with a man who comes out and suffers consequences, but not a man who stays in and suffers stress from that. They're both suffering due to circumstances beyond their control.
But Revenant, do you call upon buddies you may have met in the course of hanging out at strip clubs to heap fellow-feeling upon you because you can't talk about your exploits at Thanksgiving dinner with the family and it makes you feel so [*sniffle*] isolated? Your analogy, while it represents a pretty common way of thinking, is flawed. Letting people know you're gay doesn't necessarily involve being forthcoming about your sex life. I'm not--not at all. I also don't go out of my way to shock people. But I don't hide who my partner is or what I did over the weekend or what have you, and since the probability that someone will cause trouble for me by finding out I'm a homosexual is effectively zero, it's one less stressor I have to worry about.
Sean,
You make some really good points, but I think there's a big jump from disapproving of someone "exploiting" the closet in the way you describe (which is wrong, indeed) and feeling like it's just fine to out them because of it. I know that's not what you're saying, but a lot of people on this thread seemed to be saying it.
downtownlad,
You're all over the place. I agree with a lot of what you say. As for Hollywood figures, it's a compliment to be outed. It really means you've made it big. Anyway, though this thread happens to be about an outing by a lefty blog, I'm against outing gays for politics, for vindictiveness, for just about anything else, whether you believe me or not. *sob*
I think out anyone... regardless of the situation is ultimately wrong and immoral.
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