and the
Wisconsin Union Directorate Distinguished Lecture Series
present
The Iraq War: Lessons from the Past
by
Senator George McGovern
7:30 p.m. on Monday, November 14, 2005
UW Memorial Union
Union Theater
800 Langdon Street
Madison, Wisconsin
September 26, 2005
"Lessons from the Past."
In the email just now:
2005 Kastenmeier Lecture
and the
Wisconsin Union Directorate Distinguished Lecture Series
present
The Iraq War: Lessons from the Past
by
Senator George McGovern
7:30 p.m. on Monday, November 14, 2005
UW Memorial Union
Union Theater
800 Langdon Street
Madison, Wisconsin
and the
Wisconsin Union Directorate Distinguished Lecture Series
present
The Iraq War: Lessons from the Past
by
Senator George McGovern
7:30 p.m. on Monday, November 14, 2005
UW Memorial Union
Union Theater
800 Langdon Street
Madison, Wisconsin
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18 comments:
Ooh! Swiftboat, swiftboat! Me first!
George McGovern only entered WWII as a pilot and flew Liberators just so he could run for President!!!!
Now your turn Ann!
Why do I get the feeling that this lecture will descend into yet another boomer self-love nostalgia fest.
(which, by the way, was one of the main reasons for Sen. Kerry's primary victory and general election defeat, his wallowing in boomerish onanism. On the national level the Democrats have become the party of looking back, the Republicans are looking forward, and the American people are always more inclined to choose leadership that leads us forward, regardless of the specific policies)
(oh, that is bound to be irresistible troll bait)
A debate between scientists and religious conservatives has escalated after the US President, George Bush, said the theory of intelligent design should be taught with evolution in public schools.
... the party of "looking forward"
If what Prof. Gardner has to say is that through Pres. Carter's gross incompetence he allowed Pres. Reagan's election far sooner than anyone thought a Republican could regain the White House after Watergate then I would have to agree that Pres. Carter played a VITAL role in ending the Cold War.
Otherwise, Prof. Gardner is a blowhard idiot who refuses to recognize simple facts
(any bets on which?)
George McGovern is a wonderful and a decent human being. He was a true war hero as a very young man. He also represented his state well as a Senator.
I just happen to strongly disagree with his views on Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. The two judgments are not mutually exclusive.
IMO, heroes should always be praised for their heroism, but not necessarily for their judgment.
vnjagvet,
That was a decent, intelligent comment. Thanks for injecting a reasonable tone to this discussion.
George McGovern ran trying to beat Nixon and force him out of the White House. The main and overriding issue in his platform was that the US should get out of Vietnam. About the only real issues he had besides that were to support legalized abortion and definitively end segregation. He also supported more government spending on entitlement programs.
By 1973, an agreement was reached to get the US out of Vietnam. We were completely out by 1975. Abortion was legalized that same year. In 1974, Nixon left the White House, a beaten man. Institutional racism was ended everywhere by the late 1970's. And even more money was added to support entitlement programs than McGovern had proposed.
The truth is, things actually turned out pretty much the same as if McGovern had won.
That's odd I got an e-mail for this lecture series:
The War on Terror: Lessons From the Past by Neville Chamberlain
Current Issues in Rodent Control: Lessons from the Past with special emphasis Monty Python and the Holy Grail by Jimmy Carter
An encore lecture: The Seven Habits of Effective Leaders by James Buchanan
"...Hmm. I wonder which "conflict" he thinks it compares to...."
Yes I am wondering about that too?
There actually are some serious lessons that were learned in Vietnam now being applied in Iraq. For example, in Vietnam the U.S. did not engage in a counter-insurgency strategy from 1965-68 (i.e. policing areas with Vietnamese allies). Instead Gen. Westmoreland chose an attrition strategy. By 1968, we had acheived nothing with the general population, who still remained skeptical, even after the viet cong was crushed during Tet. Many in the military saw this failure as the chief failure in Vietnam. In Iraq, however, local policing and counter insurgency was done from the beginning. The results have been better than imaginable with over 8 million participating in elections and a never ending willingness by locals to join the army and police.
Of course Vietnam had its other differences, most notably support from other superpowers. For example, more than 350,000 soldiers from China spent time in Vietnam fighting americans and building roads and railways. The Communists also fielded more than 10,000 anti aircraft units and flew thousands of Migs during the war (many by Soviet pilots). They managed to shoot down 3500+ U.S. aircraft. I'm not sure how many anti-aircraft batteries Zarquawi has at the moment....
Vietnam and Iraq are similar in that they were legally authorized by Congress.
Wars that were illegal include the Korean War and the Kosovo war. neither were authorized by Congress.
I agree, the more time passes, the more realistic perception we will have of the Vietnam war. There are so many myths and lies that need to be dispelled about the war, myths that seem second nature in the American psyche today.
It is unfortunate for the Vietnamese people that Vietnam became a battle ground of the cold war, a war where the Communists were on the offensive and liberal democracy on the defensive. We fought in Vietnam because the Soviets and Chinese chose to fight there instead of Western Europe or the Middle East.
- hopefully Fritz Mondale will be seated in the front row - and in Viet Nam the peasants still fall like flies from common diseases - they can't get enough Coca-Cola and Marlboro cigarettes and the last I heard about the Nike factory there was it paid workers .38 a day. There's Uncle Ho's legacy for ya' - Iraq is being pacified in the same manner as we speak.
The first time I voted in a presidential election, it was for George McGovern.
I think what's most significant in the posted announcement is that the lecture committee selected him at this time. He hasn't pushed himself forward in the public debate about Iraq, but the committee quite clearly expects him to.
"...Tell us all what happened in Viet Nam in 1975 that was different from what would have happened there and in the rest of that region if US had gotten out of Viet Nam in 1965 instead?..."
That is a good question. I would guess that we would have fought the same war in perhaps Thailand or Indonesia, or the Middle East or Africa. The USSR and China poured resources into Vietnam. They would have poured the same resources into spreading "revolution" somewhere else.
Ugh no more Viet Nam.
Tell us all what happened in Viet Nam in 1975 that was different from what would have happened there and in the rest of that region if US had gotten out of Viet Nam in 1965 instead?
OK, I was in Vietnam in April of 1975 with the Foreign Service. We had a good treaty that was not enforced. The troops left Vietnam in 1971-72. They were not going to return. The South Vietnamese had won over the Viet Cong 1972 offensive and could do it again with US air support. But Watergate and McGovern and others turned off all economic support. The government in the south failed. Our good treaty was gone.
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