The invocation of science ought to be a call to calm rationality, but there we see it used like a tagline for a horror movie: Be afraid, be very afraid.Please share this with everyone. Let’s never listen to these liars ever again. I guess CNN doesn’t need Sanjay to be a useful idiot anymore pic.twitter.com/XawCqUEWUB
— Adam Carolla (@adamcarolla) July 30, 2026
July 31, 2026
"Science is truth."
Posts
255 comments:
1 – 200 of 255 Newer› Newest»Those same people saying "trust the science" were the ones who were aggressively censoring scientists who were advancing contrary views. They wouldn't know science if it bit them in the butt.
The Science™
We may have been vaccinated against "the experts." That might save us against the next psy-op, the DSA.
They shall watch over us. "We felt safer already", they told everyone..
Trust the science …… and Don Lemon, Joe Scar’bro and The Most Rev. Al Sharpton. Sheep, all of them.
Galen first promulgated his theory about balancing the humors in the 2nd century BCE. That theory did not fall out of favor until the late 1800's. That's two thousand years where the experts were wrong, and the best practices of the best experts more often than not hastened your death.........There's an old saw that says we can see further because we stand on the shoulders of giants. Okay, sometimes. Other times we're looking straight up their assholes.
We are not a serious people in a serious country until Fauci has been publicly executed.
He is an evil corrupt mass murderer a dozen times over.
Wow. That video had a 3 second clip of a woman having to talk to her mom through a window. I had to do that. To travel across the country to Michigan in winter and stand outside of a nursing facility shouting to my mom through a window. Then talking with her on the phone- through a window. Multiple trips that year. Until she got locked into that nursing home with covid and people all around her dying. And then it was her turn.
Just that second of a clip served me up a range of emotions- from sadness to anger- that I have not felt in some time. It's there- raw. In me. In millions of Americans.
And that clownish narcissist who claims to be 'The Science' sitting up there, cowardly refusing to utter a word, ducking below the cover of the media- still protecting him and themselves.
All of them cowards. All of them guilty of destroying lives and businesses. Setting back children years in education and social learning. And destroying what was left of respect and trust in our institutions.
And he sits there. Cowardly quiet. Not even willing to defend himself. Ducking out the backdoor with his attorney. Safe at last.
In two weeks he'll show up on a favored cable news show. Mocking the trial and all that took place. Trying to restore his image as 'The Science'. I cannot wait to see which of our media clowns puts him on the air.
"Trust the science!" they said...
"Science is truth!" they said...
"Just two more weeks!"...they said
Healthy skepticism was always a good idea, but healthy's not enough anymore. Now you need hypochondriac skepticism.
All of the people in that clip were not pushing science, they were pushing their politics. I'll say for the hundredth time, I don't know why this turned political, but I do know the people who made it so. They are the people in that clip. And I bet not a single one of them have had any introspection over what they did.
What they were actually insisting on was unquestioning obedience to approved experts whose improv-style instructions were rooted in a political consensus, not on empirical research.
The consensus was clearly under the control of politicians not medical experts, and their agenda went far beyond managing the pandemic. They were clearly determined to use the current moment of crisis to further their own political goals and ambitions across the board.
Temujin said...
Wow. That video had a 3 second clip of a woman having to talk to her mom through a window. I had to do that. To travel across the country to Michigan in winter and stand outside of a nursing facility shouting to my mom through a window. Then talking with her on the phone- through a window. Multiple trips that year. Until she got locked into that nursing home with covid and people all around her dying. And then it was her turn.
There are millions of people who made this happen. It will happen again if people are allowed to avoid looking in the mirror.
Cowards who knelt and attacked people like me.
Am I forgiven yet Meade?
Have you thanked your Amazon Delvery Driver yet Ann?
Then there are the Desantis supporters who yelled at me when I called him out for locking down florida like a tin pot dictator.
We just aren't a serious country.
"Let’s never listen to these liars ever again."
Fine, but that's not really a solution. There will be new liars, or the old liars will use reverse psychology.
Fauci is a very bad man, but he didn't act alone. My Republican governor, in a solid red state, took orders and didn't ask questions.
It's the same Republican governor who can't see why anyone objected to dropping 15,000 Haitian immigrants into a small town of 60,000 people.
One lesson we should have learned is that when the establishment tries to shut up the skeptics and refuses to give honest and thorough answers, we should expect they are lying.
T:
The remarkable thing is that Libs suffered equally from Fauci and the legacy media, but the Left is not exploiting in anger after finding out Fauci lied and covered up.
My explanation is that Dems voters have TDS and that they are too invested in position. They would lose face if they now admitted that they were wrong and were duped. They can’t admit a mistake.
My brother was all invested in the whole Covid scam. I took him to a SF Giants game and he showed up wearing two cloth masks.
But it was a great game. I could see the ships docking and, for some reason, lots of foul balls ended up in our section.
I was lucky during Covid as my hospital let me get my radiation cancer treatment during the lockdown.
Maybe it's good that the left is protecting Fauci and we can't get at him. Because they'll be carrying him around on their shoulders like the Old Man of the Sea for the rest of time. We'll know who is hard core. We'll know how many lies and abuses a given person in our lives will tolerate. McCarthy knew there were Communists in government, the media and so on but he had no way to effectively identify them. But we have our little bobble-head symbol to look for. 'What do you think of Fauci - an expert, right?" "Right!" Hmm. Or: "Rand Paul, why is he persecuting science? Fauci is like the Second Coming of Galileo, right?' "Right!" Hmm.
Bob Boyd said..."The consensus was clearly under the control of politicians not medical experts, and their agenda went far beyond managing the pandemic. They were clearly determined to use the current moment of crisis to further their own political goals and ambitions across the board."
Yeah, that's probably the answer to my question as to why this turned political.
And let's not leave out their media allies.
The question has always been how the civilized and educated German society ended up with the Nazis.
New question: How did nominally educated Americans fall for the Covid scam?
Answer: The media played a giant role, people fell for the Appeal to Authority and most people can’t think critically. It’s also a tribal thing.
“Then there are the Desantis supporters who yelled at me when I called him out for locking down florida like a tin pot dictator.”
…the revisionism covering for the guilty is staggering. just this week I was standing in front of a hotel on the NV CA border and a guest was explaining how Nevada was locked down when California was open when it was California twas closed while they were inventing new and creative orders to torture people..
Dave Begley said...
The question has always been how the civilized and educated German society ended up with the Nazis.
New question: How did nominally educated Americans fall for the Covid scam?
Answer: The media played a giant role, people fell for the Appeal to Authority and most people can’t think critically. It’s also a tribal thing.
There are maybe 3 people on this board who didn't fall for COVID hysteria.
The reason we fall for it is people pretend they didn't fall for it.
wildswan said…
“We may have been vaccinated against "the experts." That might save us against the next psy-op, the DSA.“
Great point. Also mass unvetted migration (we are a nation of immigrants), islamicism (religion of peace), climate change (doomsday), etc. Any government entity pushing something we know to be an anti-western Trojan horse.
Isn’t interesting how Big Pharma has largely escaped scrutiny over this debacle. Check out Pfizer’s profit during the vaccine hysteria.
I know several healthcare professionals who kept pushing me to get the clot shot. I refused. Turns out they were getting a kickback also.
We have to realize that for ten years half the country has only been hearing half the story, the Dem half. They simply do not have the facts in their minds that we have. They did not read the Great Barrington Declaration, they haven't read it yet. Even now they don't actually know that half the country already knew Fauci was a liar and had known it for years. We knew but they don't see that we knew by free inquiry. They still think a small fringe group of crazies accidently said something that was true but it was like 10,000 monkies typing all at once and suddenly they type out Shakespeare. No, we knew the real science back then because we read what both sides had to say. One had facts we learned, one said "Trust the science."
We want the idiot half that trusted the guy who got rich saying "I am Science" to go back to being Americans who feel free to ask questions, not sheep looking for what they should say today. If you realize you were lied to back then, ask about socialism now.
The new Covid is socialism. Socialism in NYC will make things worse. Half the country knows that today. if you are sorry about believiing Fauci, show it by teaching yourself to ask questions of the left. Stop being the TDS-diseased sheep they tell you to be. Make aliyah to America.
The.Gravest Show on.Earth, by Elinor Burkett. Some info on Fauci, but also many others like him.
Devastating.
"How did nominally educated Americans fall for the Covid scam?"
Because it played into the existing narrative that is sort of the over-arching narrative that ties Dem politics together and it's like crack to Dem voters, they can't resist it. The over-arching narrative is that "we are the good people, we are the smart people". Being a Dem is a religious faith in the idea that they are morally and intellectually superior to the common herd.
If you listen to the talking heads in the video, it's not just Covid they are telling people to be afraid of, it's non-believers, it's "anti-vaxxers", it's "science deniers", it's "people who think they can do their own research", it's MAGA people.
This over-arching narrative, an appeal to vanity essentially, is the fundamental that underlies every Dem issue, race, gender, immigration, etc.
Fauci was having Dinner with Jake tapper and Tapper told him "Trump was nuts". The real problem is that most people are stupid. If you tell them to use BCE instead of BC, which the English speaking world has been using for 1500 years, they will.
If you tell them Covid 19 will kill them unless they wear a mask (even outdoors) they will. And if you don't tell them what to do, they'll take medical advice from some quack on the TV or their golf buddy.
The USA is full of dumb conformists who are proud of following "the party line".
Video of a guy telling Fauci his truth.
Here's something from the NIH
"During the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden was among the few countries that did not enforce strict lockdown measures but instead relied more on voluntary and sustainable mitigation recommendations. While supported by the majority of Swedes, this approach faced rapid and continuous criticism.
Unfortunately, the respectful debate centered around scientific evidence often gave way to mudslinging. However, the available data on excess all-cause mortality rates indicate that Sweden experienced fewer deaths per population unit during the pandemic (2020–2022) than most high-income countries"
"Video of a guy telling Fauci his truth."
Regardless of anything else that people say about them, urban black guys do have a very finely tuned bullshit detector.
There are very few things that Tim Robbins and I agree on. But he gets my respect (and my full agreement) for this bit of wisdom (from a recent Joe Rogan podcast):
https://substack.com/redirect/a876f504-151d-4b52-a7db-8cc1cb38d676?j=eyJ1IjoiNWQxbjBtIn0.h-BfcP-rm-QFGKDqhsggt2p7jSFydELj4D0A6yGqCfw
What happened during Covid is what happens during most important events. "The elite" goes into hysterics, decides on the most extreme course of action, and then labels anyone who disagrees some sort of "-ist" or "enemy of the people".
When some one disagree and has facts on their side or their course of action goes wrong, the elite just doubles-down and shouts louder. And throws people in jail if neccessary.
And boobs either "take it" or "fall in line". During the 20th century the elite were always getting us into useless wars, then demanding "Unconditional Surrender" or for us to fight on despite no chance of victory. And if you disagreed you were an "-ist".
With Covid it was the same. We had to listen to the great x-burts and lock everything down, no matter what. And when someone said a peep against it, they "hated Science".
21st Century Dems: We have nothing to fear but the lack of fear itself.
Check out the NYT letters to rhe editor about the Fauci hearings. Unanimous that Fauci is a persecuted saint and hero.
They're not going to stop. Crises will only get more severe, the "poly-crisis" you hear about. Although they hit snags in the US the fear was very successful globally, and for every cohort that is successful in the skepticism the people gain in their 'antibullshitic' resistance to manipulation.
But they won't tell you the truth. Never. The fear is just too useful as a tool of population control so next time it will be taken up another notch. I wonder what they'll think of next.
Here's the link.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/30/opinion/anthony-fauci-hearing-diary.html
I still can't comprehend what you people are saying. Was it a deadly pandemic or was it a giant Nothing burger that we overreacted to?
In any event, it really doesn't matter because no one cares people have moved on and when I say people I mean the vast silent Majority of Americans have moved on from covid and don't want to think about it or talk about it.
You people want to talk about it because opening the scab you feel is the only way that you guys can figure out how to defeat the Democrats in the midterms.
Sadly the Democrats have already won. They have won because Trump handed them victory on a silver platter by overextending underestimating and showing us his shriveled up Pathetic excuse for manhood. He's not only the boy who cried wolf. He is the defeated wimp crying uncle.
He gave up all the cards to Iran and now you're complaining that they're playing the cards. Oh it's so unfair. If the Iranians would just give up, everything would be perfect. But no, they're desperately fighting for their survival.
So yeah I get it. Keep wallowing in your self-pity over how badly mismanaged covid was because it was was completely mismanaged. Well, not completely, Trump and Fauci did one good thing by unleashing warp speed to create a vaccine like no one has ever seen.
But that was half a decade ago in the past which is gone. Gone forever. It is but a distant memory that everyone wants to let go of except for you and a last gasp in desperation to hold on to the dream that Trump is not a lying con man and a thief and Benjamin Netanyahu's bitch by fighting Israel's forever War in the Middle East.
Rick: "We'll always have Covid. We didn't have it, we lost it until you came to Venezuela."
Ilsa: "We got it back last night."
Rick: "And we said we'd continue. But we've got to realise that you belong with Chuck and Nancy now. You're part of their work, the thing that they're doing."
Leftists think tossing out the word "Science!" - is all they need to prove their qualifications and superiority on the subject they lie about.
Jake Tapper is the biggest fraud going.
I never thought anyone could top Rachel Maddow in the fraud department.
I was wrong.
The phrase, ‘Never again’ , now has an additional meaning.
Watching OLD GROSS hack White soviet leftist dems ($$$$$$) preach in unison their control over the narrative (and us) is DISGUSTING.
How do people vote democrat? It's sickening.
How Does Jake Tapper have a job?
he is an embarrassing fraud.
Everything you're saying, April, is true and correct. The problem is no one cares. People are more concerned about rising gasoline prices food inflation and the depletion of our defensive weapons for no good reason.
You people should know this. We live in a What did you do for us lately Country. That's free market capitalism. Only losers dwell on the past while winners think of the future. Just a short while ago Trump was all about the future until he made the present a fubar shit stained chaotic pile of smoking rubble
"Science is truth" reminds me of a exchange the great Norm Macdonald had with the late Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Neil deGrasse Tyson tweeted:
The Universe is blind to our sorrows and indifferent to our pains.
Have a nice day!
To which Norm responded:
"Neil, there is a logic flaw in your little aphorism that seems quite telling. Since you and I are part of the Universe, then we would also be indifferent and uncaring. Perhaps you forgot, Neil, that we are not superior to the Universe but merely a fraction of it. Nice day, indeed."
To paraphrase the circumstantial President Ford; The truth is whatever the powerful says it is.
And the powerful have always said, Oceania has always been at war with... whatever it is we are at war with at the moment.
Be afraid, be not afraid; whichever one you choose, know that we are here to answer your questions. Have a wonderful stay here or a safe onward journey home. And thank you again for choosing South West.
Remember when the stopped having science in Norway and Denmark?
“You people”. My favorite!
In “Ode to a Grecian Urn,” John Keats wrote: “Beauty is truth, truth beauty,” to which my flippant response was, “Yeah, but beauty’s in the eye of the beholder, so where does that get us?”
Seems applicable, in a variant on a theme.
And anyway, science is a pursuit, not an absolute let alone an automatic. And it is iterative, not absolute. Of course, I’m speaking in broad terms.
Howard - we know leftists don't care. Cultist leftist were giddy following the diktats.
Leftists also didn't care when inflation and gas prices sky-rocketed with Biden at the helm.
Lives were ruined because of Democrat Party Chi Com covid.
Only demofucks don't care.
Amen, Temujin. Amen.
Anybody saying move on, make up your mind was it serious or not, or making excuses obviously didn't suffer any really hardship, loss, or pain from what these authoritarians did. So if you'll excuse my language: Howard, kindly go fuck yourself.
At some point, COVID stopped being a public health discussion and became a hobby. Four years later, some people are still treating every new study, hearing, or social media post as if it’s going to reveal the “real truth” that thousands of scientists somehow missed.
The irony is that many who say, “Follow the evidence,” stopped following it years ago. Healthy skepticism means updating your views when better evidence emerges—not endlessly replaying the same conspiracies because they fit a preferred political storyline. At some point, it’s okay to let the pandemic become history instead of a full-time identity.
The horrid collective corrupt left still yammer on endlessly about their addiction to ABORTION and JANUARY 6TH!
Leftists are still addicted to De-fund the police and the ACLU are out there canvasing for support to Defund ICE. 40% of ICE agents are Mexican American - so that makes leftwing ACLU a racist organization. A corrupt vile Racist organization..
ACLU also in court attempting to force gross father/ daughter sex books to sit on the shelves at the school library - while assholes like Jake Tapper lie.
Covid lies.
All of that - the left don't give a shit about it.
COVID treachery and lies were all pushed by the corrupt media - and the cultist dems all had a hand in the treachery.
That's why it's a big yawn to them.
The vile collective left: We need to focus on Jan 6th!
Of do fuck the fuck off.
I'm going to make "Have You Hugged Your Local Conspiracy Theorist Today?" bumper stickers. Tinfoilers hit a grand slam on covid, and it deserves acknowledgement.
It's hilarious watching the corrupt BS Now media hacks squirm and revise history. They were all in on it.
Mika and Joe can toss right off. Nothing new from those two frauds.
Past <> sunk cost for some, investment providing return for others
Achilles: "There are maybe 3 people on this board who didn't fall for COVID hysteria ..."
Nonsense. Fire up the Wayback Machine ™, say to March 2020, and look at some of the posts here.
Yancey Ward didn't fall for the hysteria. Nor did I. Nor did almost anyone else not named Inga.
Some POS "researcher" from the University of Essex predicted three million dead in the US by August, 2020.
By March, we knew that a Princess cruise line ship, without any means of quarantine or masking, had 14 C-19 deaths out of 3200-ish passengers and crew.
That's less than a 0.4% fatality rate. With a passenger demographic right in the heart of the C-19 envelope.
At about the same time, the USS Roosevelt, 4500 crew, suffered one fatality.
The data was already in: C-19 was going to be three times worse than a normal flu season.
Yet progs went straight for hysterics.
Fauci placed his "Diary" on a government server.
It's all right there - and our Democrat Party Soviet media refuse to read it, discuss it, and so forth. Zero curiosity.
A real media would.
What is worse than Fauci? yet again - the hack Soviet Democraxic media.
Google news
MSN News
Yahoo News
These conglomerates use the NYT, Wapoo, and other known soviet sources for their low information mass deceptions .
Upon further review. It was Norm that died, unfortunately, not Neil Tyson. Norm’s death was a tragedy. So much material that will never be heard by mortal enemies, nor fall on deaf ears.
And while we’re casting aspersions, it might be construed as racist to say Neil Tyson would be late to his rendezvous with Destiny. It’s wrong of me to assume Destiny is a white woman. The truth is Destiny is a genderless angel. And to say Neil Tyson could be late, is an unfair character assassination. For which I say I’m sorry, I never promised anybody a rose garden.
Howard said...
I still can't comprehend what you people are saying.
Why are we not surprised.
Your screed reads like someone who would enthusiastically put his hand on a hot griddle to see if it was hot. Over and over again.
We tell ourselves these things so that these things are not repeated.
Science is NOT truth. Science is a means, an iterative process, for getting to certain kinds of truth. You can't just do whatever you want and label it "science" - but that's what Fauci was doing, and that's why he is appropriately being dragged for it.
Although I was on X this morning, and it was a revelation: whole lot of people out there still calling him a hero who saved millions of lives. That's a giant step beyond what IEE keeps doing here, in pretending that what we are actually debating is whether one can ever make a good-faith scientific mistake in the middle of a crisis. One woman, apparently a doctor, thanked Fauci for reading her email in the early days of COVID in which she asked him to consider whether it was an aerosolized virus, saying that because of her email, he changed his mind and therefore his public pronouncements, and therefore policy. Funny thing is, with an aerosolized virus, wouldn't you think that the ruling guidance would have been that cloth masks do diddly, and even an N95 mask, worn in any other way but sealed to your face, is not effective? Yet Fauci went from "DON'T wear masks" to "Everybody wear a mask all the time, any kind at all, just whip one up on the old sewing machine if you can't find a box of the elastic ones," not the other way around. Huh. Funny.
"America, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You fucked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help."
Feynman: “Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.”
Why do you think anyone cares about your comprehension skills, Howard? Hundreds of comments just on this blog over the last few days, yet your argument is “no one cares”. Yeah, we agree you don’t comprehend.
Covid and the totalitarian response to it was the most damaging event inflicted upon the American people since at least the Great Depression and possibly the Civil War. But we're supposed to move on from it because grocery prices??
"At some point, COVID stopped being a public health discussion and became a hobby."
Very quickly, it seems, COVID stopped being a public health "discussion" and became a meal ticket for Fauci et al., as well as a way to Get Trump.
"Four years later, some people are still treating every new study, hearing, or social media post as if it’s going to reveal the “real truth” that thousands of scientists somehow missed."
There you go again. "The truth about COVID" is not what's under discussion. The discussion is about whether those making public policy were deceiving the public, making policy that was at odds with the evidence THEY were able to see but that they were trying to keep from us. It's the same discussion as "Who was actually running the Executive branch while Biden was nominally president?" There was in fact a conspiracy to hide Biden's condition from the public, just as we now learn what we long suspected, that there was in fact a conspiracy to hide certain COVID evidence from the public and to promulgate policies that contravene those lines of evidence.
"At some point, it’s okay to let the pandemic become history instead of a full-time identity."
It's not the full-time identity of anyone here. What's happening is that, as in the MoveOn days, the left is trying to be in charge of WHEN it's "okay to let the pandemic become history," on the basis of its cost to THEM. As usual, it's the left for whom control of a narrative is the full-time identity. Read your 1984, or better still, your Brave New World.
"Journalists," if that's what some of these people claim to be, are supposed to be skeptical about the official story, but nobody in the media does actual investigative reporting. They are just repeating what leakers and others with axes to grind tell them. It's another version of repeating the official story.
The universities are also in a strange position: you go into classrooms and hear leftist professors say that knowledge is power and power is knowledge and credentials are knowledge and power and that it's all part of the oppressive system, but with respect to their students and the outside world, professors and universities and scientists flaunt their credentials to claim knowledge and get power.
Why did people buy into the COVID madness? They wanted to believe that they were smart and public-spirited. That belief was very flattering. It gave them a feeling of being superior to the "ignorant" and "selfish" people who questioned the official story. Also, people crave their own "World War II" -- an urgent moral cause that makes them righteous and gives them power over the rest of us. When it wasn't COVID it was climate change.
In the 80s, leftish documentarians strung together everything those in authority were telling us about radiation and atomic weapons and nuclear war in the 50s to produce the film, "Atomic Cafe." In this clip the "authorities" are telling us to be very afraid instead of saying that we have nothing to fear, but the unintentional comedy is similar.
Jeez, it's the sort of thing a non-scientist would say. Science is not perfect, it is not the truth. Our knowledge and our methods are constantly evolving. I think one of the great things about scientists is their ability to admit they are wrong. It is, I think, the primary reason we trust them so much.
"Science is the belief in the fallibility of experts."
- an actual scientist
"The science is settled" - The most ignorant and unscientific utterance, ever.
"I'm going to make "Have You Hugged Your Local Conspiracy Theorist Today?" bumper stickers. Tinfoilers hit a grand slam on covid, and it deserves acknowledgement."
Conspiracies are often just mass appeals to authority. It does not require hundreds of people telling the same story or being on the same page. It just requires those in charge dictating something and thousands who refuse to step out of line.
@Jamie: The problem with framing every unresolved question as evidence of a conspiracy is that it skips over the far more mundane explanation: governments, scientists, and public health agencies were often wrong, disagreed with one another, and updated their positions as evidence evolved. That’s messy decision-making, not proof of coordinated deception.
There is a meaningful discussion to be had about school closures, masking, communication failures, transparency, and the balance between uncertainty and public policy. But claiming “we now know” there was a conspiracy requires evidence of coordinated intent—not simply the existence of emails, disagreements, or policies that turned out to be flawed.
Comparing COVID policymaking to hiding a president’s health is also a false equivalence. One concerns evolving scientific judgments made in public by thousands of researchers across dozens of countries; the other concerns the health of a single elected official managed by a small circle of aides.
And on the narrative point: it’s a little ironic to accuse others of refusing to let COVID become history while treating every hearing as the long-awaited finale where decades of epidemiology will finally be overturned. At some point, evidence should outweigh the allure of the next revelation
I trust the scientific method, of which politicians like Fauci know little. However, I do not trust the scientists. Why can we not replicate half or more of published social science research?
Being a scientist or academic is a nice cushy job. People cheat all the time to get those jobs. Fauci and his collaborators lied and cheated their way to wealth and power. Why am I not surprised?
It’s an odd argument to say, “I trust the scientific method, but not scientists,” and then immediately abandon the scientific method in favor of broad accusations without evidence.
The reproducibility crisis is real, but it’s concentrated in fields like psychology and some areas of biomedical and social science. It isn’t evidence that every virologist, epidemiologist, or public health official is a fraud. If anything, the fact that science publicly identifies and debates replication problems is evidence that the scientific method is working.
As for Fauci, criticizing his decisions is fair game. Claiming he “lied and cheated his way to wealth and power” requires actual evidence, not suspicion. His government salary and career were matters of public record, and after years of investigations, hearings, FOIA requests, and intense political scrutiny, accusations have consistently outpaced the proof.
The scientific method is skeptical. Conspiracy theories, by contrast, tend to reach the verdict first and spend years looking for supporting evidence afterward.
Claiming “without evidence” despite evidence is the thing that is old and people are over.
If the mediaswine believed the science they would have been all over Governor Cuomo when he was murdering the elderly in NY senior centers. But then he was a Democrat.
"thousands who refuse to step out of line."
In covid's case many millions, which is reassuring. It's also unsettling. Tens of millions passed their IQ test. Billions did not.
Science is a philosophy and practice of observing and assembling correlations in a limited frame of reference.
For a Diversity of persons, science is a religion led by mortal gods and goddesses who bray to Asses that they should perform human rites, gender corruption, etc.
Is IEE actually Jen Psaki or Jessica Tarlov? The above DNC generated spin is ridiculous.
“Science is a philosophy and practice of observing and assembling correlations in a limited frame of reference.“
The original phrase, “assembling correlations in a limited frame of reference,” has two problems:
• Science does more than assemble correlations. Controlled experiments, randomized trials, and other methods are specifically designed to distinguish correlation from causation where possible.
• “Limited frame of reference” is true in the sense that all knowledge is constrained by available evidence and technology, but it could imply that scientific knowledge is arbitrary or merely subjective. A better way to say it is that scientific conclusions are provisional and evidence-dependent, not confined to an arbitrary frame of reference.
Karl Popper captured this idea well: science doesn’t prove theories true — it subjects them to tests that could prove them false. The strength of science is not certainty, but its willingness to correct itself when better evidence appears.
"Without Evidence" = is a Soviet phrase used to cover Democrat party corruption.
Is IEE actually Jen Psaki or Jessica Tarlov? The above DNC generated spin is ridiculous.
As I wrote the other day- it is extremely likely that IEE is Ritmo/Montana Urban Legend etal. He disappeared shortly after the 2016 election and returned as "Rich", an obvious concern troll who couldn't keep the mask on for more than about a month before returning to character- obsessively posting off-topic material and continuously changing monikers using Trump related quotes.
"Hence the quote from Dr. Kristian Andersen, “The lab escape version of this is so friggin’ likely because they were already doing this work.”
As one virologist told me three years ago: “If someone proposes to insert a furin cleavage site in a bat SARS coronavirus in Wuhan, and then one year later we see a bat SARS coronavirus with a furin cleavage site in Wuhan, that is highly unlikely to be a natural event.”"
Matt Taibbi
Science was purposefully stifled during COVID. Untold needless damage to our country resulted. Forgive the huge number of us for wanting a full accounting so that we learn from the failure, and strive to not repeat it. This accounting was not permitted during the Biden admin. In fact, it was pardoned. Now we have the opportunity to expose the full record. We should review all that we possibly can and be thankful for being able to do so.
For those who think it’s not necessary, no one is forcing your participation.
with the corrupt left - it's one fraud and lie after the other.
And each time the truth outs - they all say in unison - "No one cares."
But then --- they have their religious Jan 6th holiday.
IEE = Kak-a-hole (D)
Bot / paid or not.
“The lab escape version of this is so friggin’ likely because they were already doing this work.”
That quote highlights why the lab leak hypothesis has remained plausible — not why it has been proven.
Researchers were indeed studying bat coronaviruses in Wuhan, and proposals existed to perform experiments involving furin cleavage sites. But a proposal is not evidence that the proposed work was carried out, nor is it evidence that SARS-CoV-2 resulted from such work.
Likewise, Kristian Andersen’s early private emails reflected his initial assessment during the first days of the pandemic. As more genomic and epidemiological evidence became available, he and other virologists revised their views. That’s not evidence of a cover-up; it’s how scientific inquiry is supposed to work.
The current evidence leaves both a natural spillover and a research-related incident as plausible hypotheses. What it does not do is justify treating suggestive coincidences as settled proof. Plausibility is not the same thing as evidence, and suspicion is not a substitute for demonstration.
Covid - Killing off the elderly = a win/win for the corrupt left.
The Soros Chi Com left installed millions of illegals on the tax payer dole.
The corrupt left give illegals drivers license - a pathway to
killing us on our roads - and illegal voting. All happening.
The amusing part is the claim that “science was stifled” while simultaneously ignoring that COVID produced one of the largest public debates in modern scientific history: thousands of studies, competing viewpoints, preprints, journal debates, policy disagreements, congressional hearings, and nonstop media coverage. Apparently the greatest act of “suppression” in history was one where everyone argued about it constantly.
There are legitimate questions about communication failures, school closures, risk assessment, and government transparency. But an investigation should be about finding facts, not starting with the assumption that the conclusion must be a conspiracy.
Science does not require protecting scientists from criticism. It requires applying the same standard to everyone: evidence first, conclusions second. Otherwise, we’re not conducting an inquiry, we’re just holding auditions for the villain in a story already written.
As Anthony Fauci reminded him his competitive grant renewal was fast approaching, he and other virologists revised their views.
Fixed it for you.
Again Kak-a-fraud
YOU and your fellow leftists pushed a non-evidence based narrative "Wet market" theory.
You have NO credibility.
X
Just a quick reminder that they arrested this guy for paddleboarding alone in the ocean during Covid while Anthony Fauci had dinner with Jake Tapper and his wife in DC and Gavin Newsome hosted a party with friends in California.
wow - a reminder - even Jon Stewart got COVID origins right.
yo Kak-a-bitch - you should watch.
The scientific method includes changing your mind when the evidence changes. The conspiracy method includes assuming the motive first and treating the lack of evidence as evidence of how clever the conspiracy was.
You offer up a charade of how "science works". Science does not hold back making judgments between two theories, one likely and the other not, until one of the theories is "proven". One assumes a working hypothesis that the more likely theory (in this case, the much more likely theory) is the correct one until, as sometimes happens, it is disproven.
In this case that may be what we're left with, seeing as how the researchers holding the "I did it", written in the notebook proof, are hiding, and have probably destroyed, the evidence. We are not required to throw up our hands and say, "oh well, we'll never know".
The lab leak theory has the preponderance of evidence behind it, and can be taken as a fact unless and until someone proves otherwise. At which point we will change our theory. *That's* how science works.
To me, the most interesting aspect of social media isn’t who’s right or wrong, it’s how humans see themselves and their opponents. In any conflict, people almost universally see themselves as in the right and responding truthfully, and they see their opponents as wrong, and deliberately lying. Doesn’t matter what issue. Everybody assumes themselves to be objective and fair, and their opponents to be deluded and deliberately devious.
The amusing part is that this comment starts by explaining how science works and then immediately describes how science doesn’t work.
Science does compare competing explanations and assign probabilities. But “most plausible” is not the same as “proven,” and a hypothesis does not become a fact simply because the alternative is difficult to demonstrate.
A lab leak remains a legitimate hypothesis. Natural spillover remains a legitimate hypothesis. The evidence is incomplete, which is why experts and intelligence agencies have expressed different levels of confidence.
Science does not say, “pick the theory you prefer and call it fact until someone disproves it.” That’s closer to how internet debates work. Science says: weigh the evidence, update conclusions, and be comfortable saying “we don’t know yet.”
Kak-a-bot
- you are skipping past the Leftwing media method/Soviet dem Chi Com method:
LIE and CYA.
That's also the method YOU pushed.
"Science does not say, “pick the theory you prefer …"
No, it says pick the theory with the most evidence behind it.
At this point, is there any evidence behind the zoonotic origin of covid?
A Little Known Fact: In the mid-70s, Todd Rundgren produced a band called “The Howie People”.
I suspect this was the origin of so-called NPCs.
I'll clear up your confusion for you, Howard.
It was a bad version of the flu. It was entirely man-made, literally paid for by the American people, oversee by Dr. Fauci- illegally- over in China. Done in a lab notorious for weak protection systems, already hit with leaks dealing with other viruses. Then it was blamed on pangolins and the Chinese people who eat them.
The vaccine was never a vaccine. It stopped nothing. It prevented nothing. And yet they insisted- mandated at the point of a gun or losing your job- that you take it repeatedly. A 'vaccine' that had yet to be properly, fully tested for any length of time.
And we were lied to about it. About the usefulness of masks to prevent catching it. About mask use outdoors. About the random 6' spacing. About attending outdoor events that were not leftist protests in favor of a lifelong criminal killed by fentanyl with a policeman's knee on his neck.
We were lied to about so much. And then it became the job of media and government to censor anyone- particularly the loud voices- who might question or complain.
And thousands of businesses went away. Children lost a year or two or three in education and social interactions. Millions of people got mistreated because early meds that could help were laughed out of society and the vax didn't help, and ventilators only made it worse.
But 'experts'.
This was/is a bad disease. But not one that should have required what took place. And as it turns out, no one even thinks about it now. Except for the occasional Democrat voter I see outside with a mask on.
Leftists never admit they are wrong. Leftist ultimate goal is lying for power and control.
@Shouting Thomas: That’s a pretty good observation, the human brain does seem to come with a built-in ‘I’m the reasonable one’ setting. The tricky part is that humility doesn’t require pretending all positions are equally supported. We can all be prone to bias while still weighing evidence, changing our minds, and recognizing when one side has better facts. The real test isn’t whether we think we’re right — everyone does — it’s whether we’re willing to ask, ‘What evidence would prove me wrong?’
jabs not working
"nobody cared"
Well that's true.
Is anybody saying mistakes weren't made? No, and even the most diehard Trump supporters will admit he deserves part of the blame. The issue is Fauci refusing to admit fault and change direction, which we now know was due to his megalomania (and graft, culpability in funding gain of function research, etc). That time was probably in April 2020, when it was becoming obvious that it was the elderly and infirm who were most vulnerable, thus needing protection. When leaders such as DeSantis began to implement policy reflecting this reality, what was Fauci reaction? He doubled downed, savaging and demeaning anyone who dared to question his authority, basically declaring himself God (I Am the Science). Any debate or objection was declared dangerous and censored. To now pretend it was all just "scientists" doing their best under difficult circumstances is dishonest and beyond insulting.
Tulsi Gabbard released more damming documents exposing Fauci as the charlatan most of us already knew or at least suspected. https://x.com/tulsigabbard/status/2082644361406468113?s=46
Evidence less than 4 years old that "The Science" didn't support the mandated policies of the federal government. This about the efficacy of the vaccine in August 2022. The CDC is arguing it isn't effective, but Fauci's argument, 2 months after coming down with COVID despite being vaccinated and boosted, supports the vaccine is effective at preventing infection and transmission. He explicitly states he makes the argument so not to undermine the DOJ's effort to mandate the vaccine. How much money was spent by the US economy? How many jobs were lost? Because Fauci blocked the CDC from issuing a factual statement.
That news video montage - wow. I don't watch television news, so I was unaware of the extent of the craziness. The high school band playing their instruments outside through masks, the people wearing nose masks (!?) and the solemn talking heads acting as if Al Gore, Greta Thunberg and Bill Gates were experts. Crazy.
Jeffrey A Tucker
X
"Why I've lost trust in most all intellectuals and the institutions that purport to represent them: they have had almost nothing to say (except by way of support) of the entire Covid response.
RTWT
You know what happened, right? COVID was built in that Wuhan lab. Whether it was released on purpose or was an accident is still unknown. I suspect it was accidental to a degree. The stories say that in about August or July of 2019 some people from that lab started getting sick. And they "disposed" of various animals... and likely sold them through the "wet market." Which is how the market theory has plausibility: the animals infected at the lab were sold or otherwise processed at that wet market and that's how COVID escaped the lab.
But the real thing is the response of the left, worldwide, to this. COVID was a disease, a bad, worse than normal flu or cold. But the left seized on it to defeat Trump and shut down the world. Look at the totalitarian dictates: Australia literally rounded up people and put them in camps. For weeks. IEEE and Howard says "mistakes might have been made, let's move on" as if we don't need to examine how COVID was used to justify all sorts of things, including all the loosening of our election security. And surprise! Joe Biden won. And then a week later, the vaccine news was released...which leftists and Democrats purposely withheld to prevent Trump from getting a last minute credit for designing a vaccine. We didn't know then the vaccine was worthless. But Democrats like IEEE and Howard Specifically, with malice aforethought, withheld news of that vaccine for political gain. But "We need to move on!" they scream. How is that science, IEEE? How is it "science' when leftists told us we can't go to church but we can go riot for George floyd?
Here's one for IEEE: New York City panicking. "hospitals are full! PEople are dying in the streets because we have no bed! Panic! Misery!" And so Trump sends a US Navy hospital ship with thousands of beds, it anchors in the harbor. How many people did that ship save, IEEE? How many grateful citizens were able to be treated and cured?
I'll tell you: Zero. Why? Because people like you: Democrats. Governor Cuomo and the Democrat in charge of NYC flatly REFUSED to use that hospital ship. Did not send a single solitary patient to be treated or stay there, in a place designed to treat people. Why, IEEE? Because Democrats were using COVID first and foremost as a political tool. And they didn't want Trump to get any credit for help. So they let those hospitals stay crowed while the ship sat empty.
How is that science, IEEE? Why should we just ignore it and "move on" Howard? Why shouldn't we talk about what Democrats did to people back then? How many thousands of people died because Democrats did this? How is this "Science" at all?
Science is not truth. Science is a method to discover the truth, usually asymptotically.
Vance - I really have a hard time buying that a virology lab would sell dead animals that were pumped with diseases.
Accidental lab leak or on purpose - the timing of the lab leak is what I find suspicious. Covid really benefited the left - including the way we vote.
Killing off the elderly and importing mass illegals was also part of the grand corrupt democratic party plan.
Science is a search for the truth. And even when it is found there is always the caveat, " as far as we know."
We were never told the truth. The "science" was used as a bludgeon to keep people in line. Curiosity was discouraged. In fact punished. Why trust anyone who would lie to you?
"People are more concerned about rising gasoline prices food inflation and the depletion of our defensive weapons for no good reason."
You gave yourself away, Howard. You are certainly correct about rising gasoline prices and food inflation (which are perennial concerns), but the only people who would put the words "...the depletion of our defensive weapons" in that sentence are political partisans.
Wow, I marked it! At the 1:29 point of the video, Al Sharpton makes an honest statement.
Peachy, I don't think the lab sold it on purpose. I think some idiot was told to get rid of the sick or dead bats or something and somehow they ended up in the market. From what I remember reading, this was a fairly common occurrance, actually. Corruption and all that; why not make a couple extra bucks from selling it instead of incinerating it? I'm hazy on the details, but the idea was pretty clear that the animals came from the lab somehow, and not sure whether it was intentional or accident or stupidity from some low lying peon.
I'm not accusing you of lying, Vance. I've never heard of that theory before and I think it sounds incorrect. that's all.
"Accidental lab leak or on purpose - the timing of the lab leak is what I find suspicious. Covid really benefited the left - including the way we vote."
I don't believe it was done on purpose. No one could have expected any particular result. It did benefit the left, but I think they just took advantage of an unfolding situation.
The hospital ship story gets repeated a lot, but it leaves out the inconvenient parts. The USNS Comfort wasn’t “refused” because Democrats wanted Trump to look bad, it initially accepted only non-COVID patients, had strict transfer requirements, and was intended to relieve hospitals by taking other cases. As COVID overwhelmed New York, those restrictions made it far less useful than expected and were later relaxed.
That’s not evidence of a political conspiracy; it’s evidence that emergency planning didn’t keep pace with a rapidly evolving pandemic. If we’re assigning blame, let’s at least use the whole timeline instead of the edited highlights. Reality is usually less cinematic than the Facebook version.
via Matt Tabibbi
Matt Taibbi
@mtaibbi
"There is not, and never has been, any evidence of a lab leak. Taibbi is simply chasing the algorithm..."
Some who disagree:
Former FBI Director Chris Wray: “The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan.”
The U.S. State Department, which put out a fact sheet (see below):
"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses..."
The Department of Energy, which issued a report after the FBI concluding (albeit with low confidence) that lab origin was the most likely cause of the pandemic: https://wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a
The Times of London, which added to the State Department reports, noting they found “researchers working on these experiments were taken to hospital with Covid-like symptoms in November 2019.”
https://thetimes.com/uk/article/inside-wuhan-lab-covid-pandemic-china-america-qhjwwwvm0
https://2017-2021.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/index.html
That’s a collection of speculation mixed with several claims that don’t match the evidence. A lab-related origin remains a plausible hypothesis, but there is still no publicly available evidence proving SARS-CoV-2 was engineered, that infected lab animals were sold through the Wuhan market, or that Democrats “withheld” vaccine results. The timing of the vaccine announcement reflected when Phase III trial data became available, not a political release schedule.
Likewise, election procedures were modified largely by states to address a once-in-a-century public health emergency, and courts found no evidence of fraud on a scale that changed the 2020 election. Public health policies were often inconsistent and deserve scrutiny, but inconsistency is not proof of a coordinated political conspiracy. Extraordinary claims still require extraordinary evidence.
LINK
Another big piece of the story: It was understood early on that the "vaccines" did not prevent the spread of the disease. Yet for more than a year people were kept out of work, entertainment venues, restaurants, etc. if they couldn't prove they'd had the shots. This caused tremendous economic harm with no benefit, and the "scientists" and policymakers in charge knew it.
Kak - a- BOT we heard you the first time - and you won't shut up.
if only you could be banned.
I have an entire folder of Covid-related images on my hard drive labeled "The Dehumanization Project" I was going to make a video but I have not been able to properly dedicate the time, which is dumb of me.
You’re presenting possibility as proof. Chris Wray said the FBI assessed a lab incident was most likely, not that it was established fact. The Department of Energy reached a similar conclusion with low confidence, while other U.S. intelligence agencies have assessed either a natural origin or remain unable to reach a conclusion.
The reports about ill Wuhan researchers are also not the smoking gun they’re often portrayed as. “COVID-like symptoms” in late 2019 are not evidence those researchers had COVID, especially during respiratory virus season, and no public evidence has confirmed they were infected with SARS-CoV-2.
The honest position is straightforward: a lab leak remains plausible, a natural spillover remains plausible, and neither has been proven. Turning intelligence assessments with varying confidence levels into declarations of certainty is advocacy, not evidence.
Kak-a-HOLE - so you're still on the wet market lie/ theory.
@James K: That’s not an accurate timeline. The first COVID vaccines were authorized because clinical trials showed they were highly effective at preventing symptomatic illness, hospitalization, and death. Early observational data also suggested they reduced transmission, which is why vaccine requirements were adopted in some settings. As new variants emerged and immunity waned, that protection against infection proved less durable than initially hoped, and public health guidance changed accordingly.
You can reasonably debate whether some mandates lasted too long or were too broad. But claiming policymakers “knew” from the beginning that vaccines didn’t reduce spread is contradicted by the evidence available at the time. Decisions should be judged on what was known then—not with the benefit of hindsight.
For the record:
KAK-A-BOT STILL BUYS AND BELIEVES THE WET MARKET LIE.
KAK-A-HOLE ALSO WISHES RAND PAUL HARMED/ KILLED.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
7/30/26, 7:52 AM
For the record:
KAK-A-BOT STILL BUYS AND BELIEVES THE WET MARKET LIE.
KAK-A-HOLE ALSO WISHES RAND PAUL HARMED/ KILLED.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
7/30/26, 7:52 AM
Calling it the “wet market lie” misrepresents the current evidence. There has never been a scientific consensus that the market itself created the virus. The leading natural-origin hypothesis is that the market was an early amplification site, where the virus spread rapidly after being introduced, not necessarily its point of origin.
Today, both a natural zoonotic spillover and a laboratory-related incident remain plausible hypotheses. Multiple U.S. intelligence agencies and many scientists acknowledge that the available evidence is insufficient to conclusively prove either one. Dismissing the market hypothesis as a “lie” is no more supported by the evidence than claiming the lab leak has been definitively proven. The intellectually honest position is that the origin of SARS-CoV-2 remains unsolved.
Matt Taibbi
@mtaibbi
"When I first started looking at Covid origins issue (not until spring of 2022) there were already multiple U.S. agencies telling the same story about the same names of WIV workers who were ill in the fall of 2019. There was already a significant contingent of scientists backing the conclusions of gene researcher Alina Chan, whose book Viral made a compelling case for unnatural origin.
A bitter disagreement between U.S. intelligence agencies about the pandemic origin was no longer a secret by mid-2022, and some of the insiders were already talking to reporters - as were some former officials who were not able to speak during the pandemic.
When a House Committee released the Slack chats of the authors of "The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2," the main paper trotted out to argue for zoonotic origin, it was also no longer a secret that most of those scientists initially suspected a lab leak - as Dr. Kristian Andersen put it, "the lab escape version of this is so friggin' likely to have happened because they were already doing this type of work" at the Wuhan Institute. The chats showed all of the authors saying similar things initially.
Then came the release of an email from Fauci, saying: "The suspicion was heightened by the fact that scientists in Wuhan University are known to have been working on gain-of-function experiments to determine the molecular mechanisms associated with bat viruses adapting to human infection, and the outbreak originated in Wuhan."
Similarly, from the newly released diaries, Fauci characterized how 9 of 12 scientists felt in a February 1, 2020 conference call:
“The rest felt that deliberate insertion was possible, and given the fact that Dr. Zheng-Li Shi at the University of Wuhan has been working for years in GOF in coronaviruses to allow adaptation of the spike protein to bind to the human ACE2 receptor, we could not let this go.”
I did not publish a story about the sickened WIV workers with
@shellenberger
until about a year after I heard the story the first time, because Michael and his team had sources I didn't. Eventually a number of outlets published the same material.
MIT Technology and Review
Biotechnology and health
"They called it a conspiracy theory. But Alina Chan tweeted life into the idea that the virus came from a lab.
The whistleblowing scientist who advanced the lab-leak theory plans to change her name and disappear.
Alina Chan started asking questions in March 2020. She was chatting with friends on Facebook about the virus then spreading out of China. She thought it was strange that people were saying it had come out of a food market. If that was so, why hadn’t anyone found any infected animals? She wondered why no one was admitting another possibility, which to her seemed very obvious: the outbreak might have been due to a lab accident.
KAK-a-BOT(D) KNOWS that COVID came out of a food market.
Because there is not proof in any other direction.
For the record:
KAK-A-BOT STILL BUYS AND BELIEVES THE WET MARKET LIE.
KAK-A-HOLE ALSO WISHES RAND PAUL HARMED/ KILLED.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
@James K said...
'.... Another big piece of the story: It was understood early on that the "vaccines" did not prevent the spread of the disease....'
I'm old enough to remember the CDC changing the definition of 'vaccine' three times, to accommodate the lucrative product that came to be known as the 'COVID-19 vaccine', which did not confer immunity to the virus, nor did it prevent transmission of the virus from the 'vaccinated' to others.
Trust the science as a journey of discovery that is always on a hungry lookout for new data. Do not trust the 'scientist' when he clamors for 'trust'.
"But claiming policymakers “knew” from the beginning that vaccines didn’t reduce spread is contradicted by the evidence available at the time."
I didn't say "from the beginning," I said "early on." The mandates were kept in place long after it was known there were no benefits. The CDC acknowledged in July 2021 that the vaccine didn't prevent spread. The federal mandates were in place until May 2023, nearly two years later.
Sure, let’s assign some group of humans the impervious mantle of truth and make it outrageous to question them. See how long it takes for sociopaths or just agenda driven people to inveigle themselves into those positions of authority to tell us all what to do.
“Today, both a natural zoonotic spillover and a laboratory-related incident remain plausible hypotheses. Multiple U.S. intelligence agencies and many scientists acknowledge that the available evidence is insufficient to conclusively prove either one. Dismissing the market hypothesis as a “lie” is no more supported by the evidence than claiming the lab leak has been definitively proven. The intellectually honest position is that the origin of SARS-CoV-2 remains unsolved.”
Not even close. The Wet Market hypothesis was Chinese misinformation from day one. There were a couple of instances found, early on. But none after that, over the last six years.
Besides, the virus spike proteins were optimized for attaching to human ACE2 receptors. Not pangolin (etc), but human. That doesn’t happen unless the virus has passed through humans first. Which is to say that the wet market SARS-2 viruses found had passed through humans (or been tailored at the WIV) first.
Indeed Aggie.
WE all watched in real time as the forced jabs went from "Takethe jab and You will not get COVID" to "You Might get covid but it will lessen the severity" to "You will still get covid, but..."
To finally "Just ignore the fact you're still getting covid despite all the jabs, and also ignore those pecky side effects."
Obey.
Claim made without evidence: "But claiming policymakers “knew” from the beginning that vaccines didn’t reduce spread is contradicted by the evidence available at the time. "
I provided evidence earlier that shows the CDC knew and Fauci contradicted their evidence to protect DOJ mandates. The evidence was document by Fauci at the time in his diary.
As an attorney, you know the difference between evidence and argument. The same standard applies here.
The wet market hypothesis was not invented by the Chinese government. It arose because many of the earliest known COVID-19 cases clustered around the market, and environmental samples there tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. That doesn’t prove the market was the origin, but it is evidence that any serious origin theory has to account for.
Likewise, the claim that the spike protein was “optimized” for human ACE2 receptors is far more contentious than you’re presenting. Numerous virologists have explained that efficient ACE2 binding can arise through natural selection and adaptation; it is not, by itself, evidence of engineering or a laboratory origin.
A lab-related incident remains a plausible hypothesis, and several U.S. agencies have said so. But no agency has concluded it is proven, and none has produced direct evidence that SARS-CoV-2 originated at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That’s why the U.S. intelligence community remains divided. Treating a plausible hypothesis as an established fact is no more rigorous than dismissing competing evidence out of hand.
Then why were the first cases centered around the university?Look it up.
Chi Com kak-a-bot applauds this violence- wants more:
Why? Could it be that kak-a-hole is evil and wrong?
Rand Paul suffered broken ribs in the November 2017 attack from his neighbor who attacked Rand Paul without warning.
Rand Paul said he flew 10 feet in the air from the force of the attack and was left with a “significant injury that I have lifelong symptoms from.”
“I don't know what a night without pain is like or what a day without pain is like, so I do suffer from this,” Paul said. “This was no routine altercation. This was no sort of face-to-face, man-to-man thing."
Kak-a-Hole (D) chi com - is thrilled with that attack - has sympathy for the horrid violent neighbor.
Again - Kak-a hole - who applauds violence against Rant Paul - knows it was the wet market.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
7/31/26, 1:47 PM
Simply saying “I provided evidence” doesn’t make the evidence support your conclusion.
If Fauci’s personal notes or emails acknowledged uncertainty about vaccine effectiveness against transmission, that’s exactly what you’d expect from a scientist evaluating evolving data—not proof that he “knew” vaccines couldn’t reduce spread while publicly claiming otherwise.
The clinical trials demonstrated strong protection against symptomatic COVID-19, and early real-world studies showed vaccinated people were less likely to become infected and transmit the virus than unvaccinated people. That protection diminished as Delta and Omicron emerged, prompting changes in public health guidance.
Science changing with new evidence isn’t evidence of fraud. It’s evidence that the virus didn’t read the talking points.
I an not a medical expert, but I do believe two things about Covid. The first is: It was much worse than your average flu or cold. The second is: The vaccines did help to reduce the mortality rate and allow people to relax and get back to living life normally. I have mentioned before that I volunteered for the J&J vaccine trials. I did that because, at the time, I felt that a vaccine was important to get things to return to normal as soon as possible. They didn't tell us at the time if we had gotten the vaccine or not, but I knew I did because of the side effects I had that night. (They confirmed later that I had gotten the vaccine.) It was a weird sensation right after that because I was one of the few people on the planet who had been vaccinated at that point. Everyone was still wearing masks and social distancing, but I realized that I suddenly felt "normal" again. Love it or hate it, take it or don't take it, that's what the vaccine did for the world. It allowed people to feel normal again.
“Look it up” is not a substitute for evidence. The early COVID cases were not established to be centered around a university. The earliest known cluster was associated with Wuhan, including cases linked to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, but the exact chain of transmission before detection remains unresolved.
If a university connection is being suggested, the key questions are: Which university? Which cases? What evidence shows the virus originated there rather than that people in a large city with universities were among the first detected?
Location alone is not proof of origin. Otherwise, every place where the first cases were noticed would automatically become the source—which is not how epidemiology works.
the food market theory has ZERO honest evidenced based facts to back it up.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
7/31/26, 1:47 PM
@Loudogblog: This is honestly a refreshing comment in a discussion that too often gets trapped in absolutes. You don’t have to be a virologist to recognize two simple realities: COVID was not just “the flu,” and vaccines were not some magical force field, but they were an important tool that reduced severe outcomes and helped society move forward.
What stands out here is the willingness to hold two thoughts at the same time: acknowledge that mistakes were made during the pandemic while also recognizing that science, medicine, and public health measures accomplished something meaningful.
A personal experience from someone who volunteered to help test a vaccine is far more valuable than the endless cycle of internet certainty from people who apparently became epidemiologists overnight. Nuance may not get as many clicks, but it’s usually where reality lives.
I got the first two jabs and I regret getting them.
Someone close to be had the same set of jabs and developed heart problems. Docs all said it was probably the jab.
The most insane story was told to me by my concrete contractor. He even showed me photos of his new born grandchild surrounded by docs in the intensive care.
His son's wife a school teacher who was forced to get ALL the jabs. that time frame coincided with her pregnancy. Her daughter was born will her internal organs shoved up into her chest. Born and rushed into surgery. Again - the doctors at Children's' Hospital (a highly respected hospital!) all said it was due to the COVID vaccines.
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...
"The more Rand Paul speaks, the more sympathy I have for his neighbor."
7/31/26, 1:47 PM
Dance faster , rich.
Look at IEEE "The lab theory is merely one hypothesis, no support for it! And whatever you do, you can't blame Democrats for anything, ever! And don't you dare ask to hold them accountable!"
He's on here saying 'So the hospital ship was not meant for Covid, just to take other patients! Later on there were no other patients!" Soo..... why didn't Cuomo and Democrats use the ship to send any patients? They sent NONE. Not a single one, IEEE. Are you seriously trying to claim that not a single person in NYC hospitals for months had a thing like a broken bone that could have been sent to the ship so that bed could have been freed up for a Covid patient? Apparently you are claiming just that, because not a single, solitary person got sent to that hospital ship. Because DEMOCRATS were trying to kill people, that's why.
Leftist cultists also conveniently forget or "don't care" about all the covid censorship on social media and various mainstream press/media platforms - from Twitter to facebook to google platforms like youtube etc...
Maximum soviet Chinese Communist style censorship.
Leftists were perfectly fine with it.
Leftists - where is your integrity?
What a strange country.
Where saving the lives of a countless number of people with evidence based theories is demonized.
But self enrichment and abuse of power is glorified.
“but they were an important tool that reduced severe outcomes”
…no evidence of that…
Donnie's economy is so thriving and the war he let Israel lead us into has been won so many times that we should focus on.............tin foil hat theories from ivermectim huffing loonies about about an event that happened 7 years ago.
-MAGA
No evidence’ is a pretty bold statement for something measured in millions of people. Vaccines were never advertised as a guarantee against infection; they were shown to reduce the risk of severe illness and death. The data didn’t disappear just because the internet moved on to a different argument.
“they were shown to reduce the risk of severe illness and death”
…it was claimed and claimed- no evidence…
…it was also claimed and claimed the shots were immunization, right up until they could no longer contradict the evidence. Evidence is funny that way…
"If you get the vaccine, you wont get COVID" was said very often in the pandemic, most notably by President Biden. It was also repeated by scores of "journalists."
BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” 7/21/21
Somebody argued for the wet market theory here yesterday, but scientists were aware that COVID's genetic code was very similar to those that researchers were working on and that the wet market hypothesis was quite unlikely to be true. They told us otherwise, but they knew better. Science!
"Trust the science" was the same appeal to authority that condemned Galileo. The life blood of science is questioning established authorities.
"loudogblog said..."
"I have mentioned before that I volunteered for the J&J vaccine trials."
Volunteered, or got paid? Aren't you the guy whose primary occupation is film shoot extra/background? I suspect you got paid for subjecting yourself to an experimental drug.
"They didn't tell us at the time if we had gotten the vaccine or not, but I knew I did because of the side effects I had that night"
What were the side effects, pray tell?
"I realized that I suddenly felt "normal" again."
Do you mean that your actual health improved, or that the vaccine improved your mental state and relieved your fear?
"that's what the vaccine did for the world. It allowed people to feel normal again."
You are talking about feeling protected from danger, I assume, and not actual results. Many people had adverse reactions and persistent physical problems as a result of those vaccines, and even its manufacturers eventually admitted that it did little to nothing to defend against the virus it was intended for. But as long as some people had their hysterical dread alleviated, it was a success. Is that right?
Better that people would have carried a crucifix or clove of garlic around, if that's the argument you're making.
Kak-a-Bot -
Noted - you change the subject.
Tell us about how much you care about the enrichment from tax payers to big Pharma - the same Big Pharma in bed with the corrupt democratic party in terms of forced jabs/money loop - and the same big pharma that gives generously to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
Kak lies again
"Vaccines were never advertised as a guarantee against infection"
Yes they were.
Lazarus said:
""If you get the vaccine, you wont get COVID" was said very often in the pandemic, most notably by President Biden. It was also repeated by scores of "journalists."
Indeed.
kak-a-bot says - No way! Kak-a-bot is probably chi com. perhaps soviet. Def dem.
…they were advertised as a guarantee until about August, then when that lie didn’t make it to election day that crazy lady changed the lie to ‘will reduce severity’…
Inga-DD-Ice whore-
Ivermectin is an award winning drug used in both humans and animals. It is not "horse paste" - a dumb word bandied about by religious leftist cultists like you.
"“Look it up” is not a substitute for evidence."
Doesn't matter, because a) you never provide evidence either and b) when confronted with evidence, you ignore it. You throw around the word evidence or without evidence while never actually dealing with evidence. You are an opinion writer and a bad one without AI.
"Vaccines were never advertised as a guarantee against infection; they were shown to reduce the risk of severe illness and death. "
That's flat out wrong. They were advertised as preventing transmission by preventing infection. Why the hell do you think they were mandated, as in get the shot or get fired?
Attenuation of symptoms was the fall back as to why everyone should continue to get shots after it was demonstrated that they didn't prevent infection. I'm immunocompromised; I followed this intently as it transpired.
Not strong on actual facts, are we Rich? I'm sure all the other "facts" you've been spewing are equally trustworthy.
Ivermectin is a Nobel Prize-winning antiparasitic used in both humans and animals. That part is correct.
The “horse paste” label referred specifically to people swallowing the veterinary formulations, concentrated pastes made for horses and livestock, not the human-approved tablets. Those products are not dosed or formulated for people.
More importantly, ivermectin works against parasites by disrupting their nerve and muscle function. Coronaviruses are viruses, a completely different type of pathogen. Lab studies showed some antiviral activity only at extremely high concentrations that are not safely achievable in humans. Large clinical trials found no meaningful benefit against COVID-19, which is why major health authorities do not recommend it for that use.
Leftists relationship with "evidence" is all narrative based.
Fake news based. Manufactured news based...
like you find on BS NOW (Gates)
Following something closely and remembering it accurately are two different things. Early in the rollout, public messaging often emphasized reducing the chance of infection and transmission because that was what the initial data suggested. As variants evolved, especially Omicron, protection against infection and transmission waned — which scientists openly acknowledged. But the idea that vaccines ‘only’ became about severe outcomes after the fact is revisionist. Reducing hospitalization and death was always the primary public-health goal because those were the outcomes that overwhelmed hospitals and cost lives.
A seatbelt is a good analogy: it doesn’t prevent car accidents, but we don’t call it a failure because people still crash. It’s judged by whether it reduces the chance of serious injury — and that’s exactly what COVID vaccines did.
The left were collectively obsessed (Religiously duty bound to their marching orders) to shut down all avenues of possible relief to covid symptoms.
The only approved method for covid was... THE JAB.
Obey.
"Vaccines were never advertised as a guarantee against infection; they were shown to reduce the risk of severe illness and death. "
Notice that kaka claimed in response to my comment about the mandates that the shots were believed to reduce transmission, hence the mandates were justified. Now in the same thread he says they were "never advertised" that way. Which is it? Again, by July 2021 it was known that they did not reduce transmission, yet the mandates were left in place for nearly two more years.
"Large clinical trials found no meaningful benefit against COVID-19, which is why major health authorities do not recommend it for that use."
Actually there were studies that showed it was effective. But not only did health authorities not recommend it, they actively prevented it, threatening doctors who prescribed it. That's the only reason some people had to resort to the horse paste--they couldn't get a prescription for it.
I took Ivermectin (the pill form, which I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get by mail order) when I got Covid in early 2022, and felt much better within 24 hours. That's not proof of anything, but the fact that so many people were denied that option to try a harmless and possibly beneficial treatment is just another of the many outrages perpetrated by the "major health authorities."
Drugs that did not make Big Bernie Pharma big money - were banned and shamed. In unison. Hivemind cult happy to oblige in the shame-fest.
Didn't the media lie about drinking bleach? Trump said something clumsy - and then right on Q - the liar soviet left media hacks ran with it and turned it into yet another falsehood.
The contradiction exists only if ‘reduced transmission’ and ‘guaranteed prevention of transmission’ are treated as the same thing. They aren’t. A vaccine that lowers the odds of infection lowers the odds of spread; that was the early evidence. Later variants changed the equation. That’s not a ‘gotcha’ — that’s biology. The virus evolved, the data changed, and public policy eventually adjusted. That’s how evidence-based decisions are supposed to work.
Sabine Hossenfeld:
Scientists say “Everywhere is warming faster than the rest of the world.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9cDpdTlQrc&ra=m
"Following something closely and remembering it accurately are two different things. "
I have leukemia; my life was on the line. I remember it just fine.
"Scientific" publication is broken. See https://retractionwatch.com/ for proof.
Also:
"A landmark Alzheimer's study that shaped nearly two decades of research has been retracted due to manipulated images, calling into question the foundation of one of the most dominant theories in Alzheimer's research. The study introduced a specific form of amyloid beta protein as a major driver of memory loss. However, the images that "proved" this protein's existence were altered — and now, the entire claim is unraveling."
When they say shaped research they mean if you were not investigating the delivered truth you couldn't get funding.
It is nothing but bullshit until it is replicated more than once.
Doctors at the CDC say children should receive Covid vaccines. A disgraced ex-environmental lawyer who spent 20 years abusing heroin says they shouldn't. For busy parents, it can be hard to know who to trust.
Is it just me, or does it seem that somebody here, won't mention any names, but SOMEBODY is working overtime to saturate the covid-related comments with misdirection and flawed counterarguments that reinforce the status quo, struggling to keep alive the themes and talking points from 2020 onward, that vaccines are good and that COVID 19 was an unfortunate naturally-occurring disaster that the heroic few fought off and in the process saved mankind from a certain devastating pandemic where billions could have died? I mean, the past couple of days, look at the overtime hours this joker is putting in. It'll be a fat paycheck next month. C'mon people. Trust the Science ! Remain Calm ! Diaries are not official documents ! It's a good thing A.I. is around to do all the writing...
Covid happened and it hardly change our lives at all. We ignored it as much as we could. Except for not being able to go visit with family who live in the California blue zones and who bought the whole song and dance.... I was sad not to be able to she them...but that's their choice.
Masking up....nope...unless I wanted to into a certain store once a month to shop. Mask to go in, then take the mask and wear it around my neck. Meet up with friends. Sure. Have people over for a BBQ..you bet. The couple of local watering holes (bars) here it was business as usual. Small rural town and wide open spaces....hardly anyone cared.
Never took a covid shot. Never got sick. Flu shot...never had one. Also while it was happening I had cancer surgery (2020) and 18 months later heart surgery at UC Davis hospital. They didn't insist I be vaxed. Tested but that was it. But I did have to wear a mask if I went walking in the hallway. Evidently you are only contagious when walking lol
𝘐𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘌𝘹𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘌𝘹𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯™️ 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥...
@𝘑𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘒: 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵’𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘦. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘊𝘖𝘝𝘐𝘋 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘶𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘻𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘤𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘩𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘭𝘺 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘴𝘺𝘮𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘻𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘩. 𝘌𝘢𝘳𝘭𝘺 𝘰𝘣𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘢 𝘢𝘭𝘴𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘨𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘳𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘴𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘺 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘥𝘰𝘱𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘴.
Sure would be nice to see those studies that don't exist. Data was cherry picked to show two things- it was effective, and not harmful. Those pregnant people who received it and had miscarriages? THROW THAT DATA OUT! Changes in menstrual cycles? THROW THAT DATA OUT! Immediate heart problems in adolescent males? IGNORE THAT DANGER SIGNAL!
As for ivermectin- it's known to be be an antagonist to some viruses. Why not coronaviruses? Just because it hadn't been tried before doesn't mean don't try it. As commented above it was effective for some of us. Actually, likely everyone who used it. After finding I was exposed to the variety that was as infectious as measles my wife and I immediately started taking it- having bought it from an overseas mail order pharmacy. I had symptoms 3 days less then the 30 year younger man who gave it to me. Started one day later, was over 2 days sooner. My wife had symptoms 2 days less then me- started the day after me, was over the day before me.
As far as science is truth- no, it isn't As mentioned by others, it's the search for truth. As is philosophy, but science is more concrete. And engineering even moreso.
But there are some truths that are ignored. For example, nuclear power plants with a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity can be safely operated. Like ours, not like Chernobyl or other Russian or Russian built reactors. And the newest designs with pelletized fuel are intrinsically safe and cannot meltdown.
And there are some fields in which REAL science is forbidden to study, or talk about what the truth is. Like, for example, IQ difference between races, or average IQ of a country vs. it's infrastructure.
And then- the idea permeates the social sciences that all cultures are equal, and expressing any other thought means you won't get a degree in social sciences. Even though that idea is manifestly untrue.
The irony of accusing someone of “working overtime” while writing a lengthy conspiracy theory about someone else’s comment activity is difficult to miss.
Fascinating theory: anyone who disagrees must be a paid operative, because apparently “a person looked at the evidence and reached a different conclusion” is no longer an acceptable explanation.
The world is rarely divided between heroes and villains, and science is not a loyalty oath. Vaccines can have benefits, policies can have flaws, and experts can make mistakes, all at the same time. The ability to hold more than one thought at once is generally called critical thinking, not “trusting the narrative.”
But I suppose it’s easier to imagine a secret paycheck than to accept that some people simply read the data and came away unconvinced by the conspiracy.
The interesting thing about this argument is that it accuses science of ignoring inconvenient data while simultaneously ignoring how science actually works: by weighing all available evidence, not by treating every observation as proof of a preferred conclusion.
The vaccine safety data were not based on cherry-picked anecdotes or a handful of studies. They came from randomized trials, large observational studies, and ongoing safety monitoring involving hundreds of millions of doses worldwide. That process did identify real but rare risks—such as myocarditis in some adolescent and young adult males—and those risks were investigated, quantified, and incorporated into guidance. A system that can detect and respond to problems is not evidence of failure; it is evidence of functioning science.
Miscarriages and menstrual changes were also studied. The evidence did not show that COVID vaccines increased miscarriage risk, and menstrual changes reported by some people were investigated as a possible short-term immune response effect, not dismissed out of hand. “Someone reported an event after vaccination” is not the same thing as “the vaccine caused the event.” That distinction is the entire foundation of medical research.
As for ivermectin, the fact that a drug has antiviral activity in a laboratory setting does not automatically mean it works as a treatment in humans. Many substances inhibit viruses in a petri dish and fail in clinical trials. The relevant question was never “could ivermectin possibly do something?” It was “does it provide meaningful benefit at safe human doses?” Large, well-designed studies did not show the dramatic benefits claimed. Individual experiences can be genuine while still not proving effectiveness—people recover from illnesses all the time after taking things that had no effect.
And yes, science is a search for truth. That is precisely why it requires skepticism—including skepticism toward our own assumptions, anecdotes, and preferred explanations. Science is not a collection of conclusions handed down by authorities; it is a method designed to correct itself when evidence changes.
The broader irony is that Gospace correctly points out that science evolves, yet then seems to expect science to have produced perfect answers immediately during an unprecedented global emergency.
The scientific method is not “trust the experts blindly.” It is “trust the process more than the person with the most confidence in the comment section.
You people don't trust medical science until you get cancer or heart disease, unexpectedly.
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