Sample comments:
1. "One thing about which I have not yet been 'disenchanted' in fine dining restaurants is a seat."
2. "I use a walker and anyplace I go must be accessible. This is a huge nope. Next."
3. "That's one way to ensure a young clientele...."
4. "That might be a violation of the ADA...."
5. "Wow. This business seem to have a lot of contempt for its customers. No chairs? Restrictive hours? No pasta outside??? No pasta for TAKE OUT? Good grief. I would never go there."
I'd say as long as people have a lot of choices of places to go, it's good to experiment, and I think it's nice to make a thing out of getting excellent pasta and moving along quickly, not sitting around. For people who want something else, there are all the other restaurants.
Posts
77 comments:
I hate the thought that because someone doesn't like the idea, the government must get involved.
There is literally nothing that people won't be outraged by. I suspect that on some level, Trump may be to blame, but I'm not sure how.
JFC! Harsh? Perhaps. I've been in Satrbucks stores like that -- high tables, no chairs -- where you can grab a drink, check your phone, and leave. Makes a lot more sense than standing and eating a full(?) meal.
By the way, they acknowledge that they are not ADA compliant. They are in a historic townhouse, perhaps that gives them the out?
And where is Senator Blutarsky when you really need him?
It is a good way to sort out fat people.
It's funny the stories you venture opinions on...
and such lukewarm takes too. Yeah, businesses have the right to do what they like to attract the customers they want...
Was this a hard one? lol
There should be more restaurants where it's okay to put your elbows on the table.
His business, his choice. But the ada requirement thing is interesting. Why not? NO ONE else seems to get a pass on that
I demand they provide gluten-free options. Also, did I mention that I'm a transgender vegan?
Sample comments:
1. "One thing about which I have not yet been "disenchanted" in fine dining restaurants is a seat."
2. "I use a walker and anyplace I go must be accessible. This is a huge nope. Next."
If these people wont be going there it might be a nice place to eat.
Do the people making these comments think their support would make it more likely or less likely for normal people to visit?
I hope Karens to know how much everyone hates them.
There is literally nothing that people won't be outraged by
Blame social media. Its absence would mean this establishment opens and finds an audience and thrives or fails and disappears quickly without much notice. Now we all get a say…
Can't wait until this guy gets hired as the chef at the new White House ballroom.
I know somebody who is wheelchair bound, so not only do I agree with comment #4, but I’d like to see the place burned down with the owners trapped inside.
Reason for story? Someone at WaPo is related to business owners. Or maybe someone at WaPo dislikes the business and wants them to be sued for ADA violation.
i'm certainly NOT "irked" by it; i just would NEVER go there.
i'm "irked" by gay bars, that BRAG about not carding teens (AND Tweens), and ALSO BRAGGING about having beds in their "rest rooms".
oh, it ALSO "irks" mem when such gay bars PRETEND to be "family friendly pizza shops
dupont circle? I'm out west - that sounds snooty.
They will almost certainly get sued and have to settle an ADA lawsuit.
they would keep the no-chairs and create spaces for ADA. Lower tables... ramps to get it. All the things. How on earth did they get a permit without that?
No pasta for TAKE OUT?
Fake news
https://www.happygeminidc.com/carryout
While I personally wouldn’t eat there, it’s literally none of my business to tell them how to run theirs. Whether their choices will result in success or failure isn’t my concern.
Wait, a rollator walker comes with its own seat. A place to sit wherever you go
That guy is doing it wrong.
Leland - good catch.
When real outrage runs low - it can be created in a lab.
click on the ice cream. I take back my snooty comment. Rum Raisin ice cream please.
It’s in DuPont, so only half the customers will be standing, if you know what I mean and I think you do…CC, JSM
I have nothing bad to say about this place. They may do as they please. The offerings look wonderful.
I have seen many similar places in Europe.
However, in my current state, it is painful to stand more than a few minutes. Hopefully, upcoming surgery will fix this.
Leland said...
Fake news
https://www.happygeminidc.com/carryout
A cursory glance at their website also reveals that they server dinner between 5:30 and 8:30. The rest of the time they are an ice cream and wine shop. Not necessarily what I'd call a restaurant in the traditional sense.
If you've had dinner in an urban restaurant recently, the bill has told you that fewer people can now afford the experience. We're headed towards a winnowing, especially in places like Los Angeles where labor costs and rents are very high.
Food trucks don't do pasta. People don't seem to mind not having a seat at one of those.
Not having a seat us not a violation of the ADA. As long as the entry and any publicly available restrooms are compliant all they need to provide is a table or two no taller than 34".
Everybody else who's annoyed needs to... See above.
Oh! The Ice cream on the take out menu looks yummy!
"For people who want something else, there are all the other restaurants."
Replace restaurants with any product or service and the statement remains true and trivial in a free enterprise system, and a recipe for failure. There are generally too few people who want "something else" to keep the lights on.
YouTube: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense
It's long - 45 minutes. I watched it because I'm in the service/hospitality/how-are-you business. I suspect we all are to some extent.
This tiny pasta spot is worth standing for/Gemini in Dupont Circle is a wonderfully strange home for handmade pasta, natural wine and some of the best ice cream in the United States"
The Pasta Nazi?
I have had favorite sandwich joints where you stand at the counter and eat with your elbows on it. At least the counter and the tables are at the correct height.
My intuition as a layman is that laws around "public accommodations" have gone too far and severely impact freedom of association, not to mention a general erosion of "fairness" and common sense when applied to business owners. I also realize that my opinion matters for nought against the emotion driven counterarguments.
That said, if you're going to have a law, it damned well better be applied universally, for better or worse. What is the legal principle (aside from snootiness and possibly insider dealing) that allows Gemini to operate as it does? Is there a size limitation that obviates the A.D.A.?
What other business owner is allowed to make vague assurances that "he works to accommodate diners who can’t stand" without saying if he is successful at the task? It is, after all, a time when the article speaks of restaurants being somehow "more humane".
I assume that the standing room tables don't fit A.D.A. height requirements. Does the owner make wheelchair-bound patrons dine on the patio? Do the owners allow such patio-constrained patrons to order pasta while forbidding it to others? What does this "quirky, principled, worker-oriented" restaurant do to assist mobility-challenged people with navigating the "steep staircase to the front door"? Also, as a WaPo commenter hints, is there a "disparate impact" issue that discriminates against the "protected class" of older diners? Obviously, none of this is an issue for the reviewer, who finds himself "running back to Gemini" often.
Maybe all of these issues go out the window if a place simply is liked by the right people.
Or maybe if Gemini qualifies as a public accommodation under the law, it should be treated as a public accommodation.
If I were to run a fancy restaurant with pretensions to exclusivity, I wouldn't offer any takeout. Modern science has created many miracles, but not yet a takeout process that leaves the food with the same taste and texture as it has at the restaurant. For more pedestrian restaurants, the increase in business is worth the slightly lesser experience the takeout patron has, but to be truly exclusive, you need much more control over the patron's experience. Does The French Laundry offer takeout?
Big Mike said...
I know somebody who is wheelchair bound, so not only do I agree with comment #4, but I’d like to see the place burned down with the owners trapped inside.
You should probably grow up and delete that comment.
There's a famous chiliburger place in Los Angeles called Tommy's. Their original location is on the corner of Beverly & Rampart in a dodgy neighborhood, and it has no seating. According to the government's ADA website, "If a restaurant truly has no dining tables or seating areas, the ADA’s layout rules that require a certain number/percentage of accessible dining tables don’t apply (those rules apply when seating/tables are provided)."
So it looks like ADA can't FORCE a business to provide tables for eating.
Another good example is Gray's Papaya in NYC.
My family owned a small chain of hair salons for a while. In one shop we had numerous issues with the township over ADA bathrooms. We had to move some walls to get the aisle wide enough to meet the spec.
We owned that shop for more than ten years and never had one wheelchair bound customer use that bathroom.
I never plan to go to Dupont Circle so it doesn't irk me whatsoever. My favorite supper club that serves German food (and fish fry on Fridays) has plenty of tables and chairs to accommodate me and my aging knees.
Pianoman, really, you are equating a high tone italian restaurant in Dupont Circle to a hamburger joint in LA that has NEVER had seating. I've been going there since the '60's and it has never bothered my or anyone else there. Been that way since 1948. It's a hamburger joint in a dodgy neighborhood.
Standing while eating pasta would be a good way to avoid dripping sauce on your shirt.
I guess I don't understand rules like this:
"If you don't provide accommodations for *X*, you'll be put out of business and then all those who haven't been able to eat at your restaurant will still not be able to eat there, along with a lot of other people who used to be able to, who now can't."
And you thought we Althouse commenters were a cranky bunch.
If you don't want to stand...don't go there!
(It appears that this marketing strategy is specifically intended to drive away the old and cranky. Also it generates much faster table turnover.)
I've been to Spain twice. Stand-up only tapas bars are the norm there. I rather liked them.
boatbuilder said...
And you thought we Althouse commenters were a cranky bunch.
If you don't want to stand...don't go there!
I suspect most Althouse commenters are very much on the side of "If you don't want to stand...don't go there!", but the intrusiveness and subjectivity behind so much that passes as law today is what draws the attention of the cranky Althousian commentariat.
I suspect that they have one table available to comply with the ADA. It's in the back and has a nice view of the dumpster.
It is certainly unfortunate that not everyone can enjoy it, but there are some very nice indoor rock climbing facilities that share the same characteristics.
I'd go anywhere for a plate of excellent pasta.
It's unfair to vertically retarded, morbidly obese, and impregnated persons of Diverse colors and classes.
"I'd say as long as people have a lot of choices of places to go, "
Now do bakers.
Bring in a tall stool.
Dupont Circle is surrounded by offices and workers sit out in the beautiful-but-small park by the fountain and eat a quick lunch. I've done it many times. But eating a quick pasta indoors would have been great occasionally, especially if it was raining. I'm sure this place is quite expensive - they all are - but its business model is correct for its niche - a lot of workers racing to get some food.
Here is what Gemini says:
“Are you ADA accessible?
Please reach out if you need any special accommodations. We’re always happy to help! Just shoot us at text at 202-596-1509 when you plan to visit, and we’ll run you through all of the options.
The inside shop is located in a historic townhouse, which is not ADA accessible, unfortunately. There are about a half dozen stairs up to our entrance. Our uncovered outdoor patio is ADA accessible.”
Pianoman, really, you are equating a high tone italian restaurant in Dupont Circle to a hamburger joint in LA that has NEVER had seating.
Yes, Vicki, I believe that is exactly what Pianoman is doing.
Why should the "tone" have anything to do with it? Either it's OK or its not--one set of rules. Just because you like one place and think the other is snooty doesn't mean you get to impose different rules.
“ I think it's nice to make a thing out of getting excellent pasta and moving along quickly, not sitting around.”
Someone should take it to the next level—a restaurant where you have to eat standing on one foot. Would probably work in NYC.
Was a regular late night customer of Tommy's on Roscoe during highschool. Nothing tackles the munchies like a double double.
Pianoman quoted the law, when he said:
"..According to the government's ADA website, "If a restaurant truly has no dining tables or seating areas, the ADA’s layout rules that require a certain number/percentage of accessible dining tables don’t apply.."
So, In Other Words; THEY CAN'T have ANY seating, because *IF* they Had seating, they'd HAVE TO be ADA compliant;
BUT, since they DON'T have ANY seating, the rules "don't apply"
Modern science has created many miracles, but not yet a takeout process that leaves the food with the same taste and texture as it has at the restaurant.
Not only that, but it's more fun to eat food in a restaurant (ambiance is a thing). The wife and I discovered this during the pandemic -- eating restaurant food at home just isn't the same.
gilbar said...
Pianoman quoted the law, when he said:
"..According to the government's ADA website, "If a restaurant truly has no dining tables or seating areas, the ADA’s layout rules that require a certain number/percentage of accessible dining tables don’t apply.."
So, In Other Words; THEY CAN'T have ANY seating, because *IF* they Had seating, they'd HAVE TO be ADA compliant;
BUT, since they DON'T have ANY seating, the rules "don't apply"
I think that sums up the problems with central planning and regulations in general.
"For people who want something else, there are all the other restaurants."
That excuse got shot down back in '64.
I'm trying to remember the last time I was in a restaurant. It had to be the 1990s. It was back when they were still trying to get people to call waitresses "servers."
Hasta la vista Gemini Pasta!
Food trucks are eating restaurants lunch. Let them fight back.
“ The wife and I discovered this during the pandemic -- eating restaurant food at home just isn't the same.”
Sure isn’t. When you get to a restaurant after an hour of driving and parking, you wait for a waiter to take you to a table, then you wait for a waiter to bring you a menu, then you wait for a waiter to bring you a drink, then you wait for a wait for a waiter to take your order, then you wait for a waiter to bring your food, then you wait for a waiter to bring you the bill, then you wait for a waiter to take your credit card, then you wait for a waiter to bring it back. (I don’t understand why they’re called waiters since it’s the customer who does all the waiting.) And while you’re waiting there’s nothing to do but stare at your phones. Grubhub is not only faster, you can at least do some Netflix while you’re waiting, and the bathroom is closer and cleaner.
"Not only that, but it's more fun to eat food in a restaurant"
To each his own. I dislike eating in restaurants, compared to home. But the hot, fresh food is certainly superior to take-out.
"I think that sums up the problems with central planning and regulations in general."
Our NYC apartment building has an ADA-compliant heavily used passenger elevator and a freight elevator. We were discussing converting the freight elevator into a second passenger elevator to ease wait times and congestion, and were told that it would not be allowed because the doorway was too narrow to be ADA compliant. So an improvement that would have made everyone better off (including wheelchair-bound people, who would have improved access to the main elevator) was forbidden.
There are similar restrictions on renovations. If you want to enlarge a bathroom for example, you have to make it ADA-compliant (wide doorway, etc.). So most people just stick with the existing non-ADA-compliant layout.
Not to mention that you’d better bring earplugs to a restaurant—the whole concept of “inside voice” has been lost in America. But maybe hearing loss is just part of the “ambience”.
"And while you’re waiting there’s nothing to do but stare at your phones."
You could consider engaging in conversation. Going out to a restaurant is at least partly, if not mostly, a social occasion. I'm always amused when I see people at a restaurant table all on their phones rather than socializing with each other. If you're by yourself then maybe not, but if I'm dining out alone, I try to sit at a bar where I have a chance to chat with others.
I'm not eating there, but it is an interesting metaphor for the conflict between "diversity"/"multiculturalism" and "universal human rights."
"Irked"? By a restaurant I've never been to, in a city I have no intention of visiting again? No. Nice word, though. According to the OED, "irk is of uncertain origin."
"..a takeout process that leaves the food with the same taste and texture as it has at the restaurant.."
there certainly aren't many types of food that improve with a 20 minute ride in a car (or, even don't deteriorate with the ride).
The only one i can think of, was Pizza Pit* pizzas back in the 20th century. Pizza Pit had these cold (well, HOT) sterno powered pizza heaters that rode in the back of the Pizza Pit Pintos. So, while the drive was going to your house, the pie continued to cook; and this was figured into the plan.
If you got one at the restaurant, it wouldn't be not done; but it wouldn't be done well; and their pies were MUCH better with the extra time cooking. But other than THAT, i can't think of anything that isn't better in house.
Pizza Pit* does Madison STILL have Pizza Pits? that's where they came to Ames from (the restaurants, NOT the pies).
and, YES; gilbar used to deliver pizza's back in the 1980s..
"Are you irked at the existence of a restaurant that serves excellent pasta on high tables where everyone must stand?"
Are you irked at the existence of a restaurant that serves only BBQ?
Where I used to live, there was a neighborhood restaurant that bought the empty space next door and announced on their Facebook page that they intended to open a BBQ restaurant there. When they posted the menu, there were complaints because there were no vegan options available. You know- like there were at the restaurant next door.
oh, NOW pizza pit of ames uses the insulated carrying boxes like most shops do.. Which SUCK, because they just don't let it cool off as fast, instead of keeping in piping hot
One should consider the possibility that the food is improved, or perhaps I should say, the experience of consuming the food is improved, by the circumstances under which it is eaten. Mightn't the pleasure of eating a nice medium-rare ribeye be seriously diminished if you had to eat it squatting in the darkness, without utensils, while fighting off a pack of ravenous dogs? I think so. I don't think a restaurant that provided that experience would be successful, no matter how good the steaks. But who knows? This is DC. The inhabitants are mostly untutored savages. Hang a rainbow flag over the door and they'd pay to eat their own shit, hanging upside down from meathooks.
On the one hand, that's their choice.
On the other hand, this is extremely American. When people eat out, they order, wait a bit, eat, chat some, then leave. Our culture is more task-oriented than most. Many other countries take a much more relaxed approach to eating out. Two-plus hours with plenty of time for conversation.
This restaurant has chosen a side.
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