The army chief, Gen. Fabien Mandon, who took over as chief of staff in September, told mayors gathered in Paris from across France last week that they must become the messengers of a new French resolve on an unstable European continent.
What is needed, he said, is “the spirit that accepts that we will have to suffer to protect what we are.” If France “wavers because we are not ready to accept losing our children,” then “we are, indeed, at risk,” he told the mayors, evoking the growing threat from Russia since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
November 25, 2025
Come on fathers don't hesitate/Send your sons off before it's too late.
I'm reading "Army Chief Ignites Uproar After Saying France Must ‘Accept Losing Our Children’/The furor erupted as President Emmanuel Macron is expected to present a plan for paid, voluntary military service to bolster the armed forces against the threat from Russia" (NYT):
Made me think of this:
Posts
77 comments:
We've become extremely soft and coddled as a species since WW2, and here, since "The Charge of the Light Brigade" in 1854:
...
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
...
https://poets.org/poem/charge-light-brigade
What's the controversy? This would be VOLUNTARY, right?
“Paid, voluntary military service”
What? France has no army now or is it just draftees. This makes no since to me.
France is being invaded now, just not by Russia.
Sacre merde!
"Some of you may die ... but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
Shreck is a documentary.
The French Algerians were the bravest of the brave in WWI . However there have not assimilated well into modern day France. Nor any of the other Africans. Will they be willing to give their lives in the 21st century after having given so many 1914-1918?0
Prepare to surrender!
That was a crimean adventure as well the logic of balaclava still amazes as much as michael curtiz tried to stitch it together
In the film of the same name
"Some of you may die ... but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
THIS IS THE LEFT,
We have heard that half a million [Iraqi] children have died. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima,” asked Stahl, “And, you know, is the price worth it?”
“I think that is a very hard choice,” Albright answered, “but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”
More of those experts but they didnt see any problems strangling south africa
In the film curtiz tried to make the instigator of the mutiny the reason for the charge
Gardez un œil sur le fromage!
Trump is right-the French, the English and the Germans have been free riders for decades. Not just money, but our soldiers have been protecting their civilians of the same age.
Honestly are the Russians murdering his countrymen or the new comers that hollandaise invited
The English and the French - always there when they need us/US.
Ok, so I glanced at the article. The current French Army is already a voluntary, professional force. This would be an additional, reserve expansion of the force, without equipment.
Again, I don't see the controversy here.
The real threat is the government as that collection of retired generals pointed out
Drones have pretty much changed things.
Russia signals it could reject modified US peace plan for Ukraine ~ FT
'Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov suggests Moscow would walk away from proposal that differs substantially from the spirit of the Alaska talks'
"Spirit of Anchorage": Trump capitulated from the get-go. It's as if Russia has a proxy working on their behalf in Washington DC.
Moscow clearly wants to convince Trump that a deal requires pressure on Ukraine rather than them. That is to be expected in a negotiation.
But the reality is that Europe requires a strong and independent Ukraine for its own defense. Ukraine acts as a bulwark against Russian aggression towards the rest of Europe and so anything that undermines that isn't just unacceptable to Ukraine, but also unacceptable to Europe. However, a strong and independent Ukraine is exactly what Putin does not want.
The objectives are so diametrically opposed that I just can't see how a deal can be done.
He has a point, if Europeans are not willing to send forces larger than the "contractors" that they are sending, but openly begin to admit to casualties, and risk nuclear war with Russia, and there is no doubt that the war aims among many include the overthrow of Putin and the disintegration of the Russian Federation, so nuclear war is not off the table, if NATO were to begin winning, but if Europe doesn't want to fight, and nobody is stopping them sending forces right this minute. Then they should accept that this little project to regime change Putin, and break up Russia, has failed, and sign a deal to stop the dying.
Of course within months of signing a peace deal, without the war keeping them in power, and keeping the billions coming to skim off, Macron, Mertz, and Starmer would be thrown out for keeping the unpopular war going this long. All three of them are the leaders of the Western war effort, and all three of them are more hated than Trump. All sides hate them in Europe.
France? Peals of derisive laughter.
J K Rowling Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
Dumbledore says, “ We had loved our own children too much — or perhaps we had loved all children too much — and we had postponed the fight for their sake. We had left the future in danger because we could not bear to risk the present.”
Nobody is stopping Europe from sending billions more, and sending more weapons, not Trump. Except they don't have the billions, and they have sent all the weapons they dare send. What Europeans and Ukrainians want is for the US to send billions more dollars, for them to skim from, and more weapons to be destroyed, as Marc Rubio pointed out.
And meanwhile, Poland is whipping up a false flag, they caught a couple of Ukrainians trying to blow up a railway line in Poland, and surprise, surprise, the Ukrainians, who mostly all speak fluent Russian, are claiming that they are Russian agents!
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/18/world/europe/poland-railway-sabotage-russia-ukraine.html
Why Russia would give the gift to NATO of an attack on European soil, so that the Europeans could be whipped into a war fever, is anybody's guess, but one of the principles for decoding propaganda is that if the reason that an enemy does something that is self-defeating is to say that they did it because they are "stupid" and "evil," you can bet it's a false flag. Just like Nord Stream was initially blamed on Russia because they are "stupid."
Oh yeah, and if you are doing assassinations among the gentlemen of the other firm, you are sure to say that it's "internecine fighting among a divided enemy."
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die
Enigma,
Read 'The Reason Why' by Cecil Woodham-Smith
You'll thank me later if you do. It's a fantastic book.
That quote came from the Crimean War, you know, where the British Empire was fighting Russia on the Black Sea. This is an old conflict, and Europe does not want to end it in a loss, and by Europe, I mean the elites who benefit from these wars, and potential conquests.
If the Western European nations aren’t willing to defend themselves, it doesn’t mean the US is obligated to do the job for them.
Just like J6, which had no possibility of accomplishing a coup, was attributed to Trump supporters because they are "stupid" and "evil."
serious question:
HOW MANY TIMES, has Russia attacked France?
or ANYWHERE in western europe?
(please don't tell me that Finland and Poland are in western europe)
General Froggy's statement is unsettling but he's not wrong. The Europeans will never again get the massive material aid and manpower that they got during the two world wars. Never. The America that can and would do this for them doesn't exist anymore and never will again. That little nugget of truth is something that should be even more unsettling to Europe than General Froggie's too.
"..the war aims among many include the overthrow of Putin and the disintegration of the Russian Federation.."
okay, Another serious Question:
HOW MANY TIMES, has France (or its allies) attacked Russia?
So the Russians are on the verge of defeat in Ukraine, their economy is about to collapse, Putin will soon be ousted and they are about to roll across Europe like a wave and take Paris.
Okay.
Magic eightball says shur why not
'OK boys here it is: First we let in a seemingly endless supply of Africans with no controls, most of them military-aged young men, then we make no effort to make them assimilate, and then, for the capper, we'll send all of our own young off to die in Eastern Europe, fighting Russians.'
Wow. Amazing what people will stand for, isn't it?
Look at the people here for escalating this war, Kak and Inga, principally; we can ignore the comments by the "Ukraine" First contingent, who think that Ukraine's "dignity" is worth the lives of American soldiers, but among people whose supposed primary allegiance is to the United States.
I look to George Washington's Farewell Address for guidance on this matter.
And Germany is implementing conscription to build their army.
France and Germany have been at war more years than not over the past 5 centuries. 45 to now is by far the longest peaceful period, they are both due.
Fine with me. I really don't care, do you? to coin a phrase.
NATO is the problem. Whichever attacks the other, the US will be obliged to step in and then it will be our sons and grandsons (Women won't go) who are dying once again for countries we have no interest in and no business dying for.
60,000 US sons were slaughtered in 5 months of fighting in WW part I. Another 250,000 died in Europe in WW part II (Would there have been a part 2 if we had not intervened in part 1?)
We had no business in European wars before and we have even less business in European wars now. As in NONE at all.
We need to get out of NATO before the shit kicks off again.
Or, accept that we need to just nuke the capitals of all countries involved as soon as the first bullet is fired.
John Henry
I remember telling people this was the outcome years ago when this started.
I remember being called a Putin Puppet by most of you.
There is a generation of boomer Desantis wing republicans that just do not learn and they are doing the same thing today.
The same retards that called me a Putin Puppet then are calling me a groyper and a nazi now. The right wing corporate media is trying to pretend that Tucker and Candace are only popular because of foreign X accounts.
Israel is going to be in the same place as Ukraine is now soon. None of this really bears scrutiny.
You people keep making the same mistakes.
As for blowing up Poland's railways, if Russia wanted to prevent troops and NATO weapons from reaching the front, where they can be destroyed, they could blow up the bridges on the Dneiper, at any time. Why don't they? Because you suffer more casualties going on offensives to seek out enemy defenses than you do when the enemy obligingly serves them up to your artillery and drones.
Think of The Walrus and the Carpenter.
I might be totally wrong, and Russia will collapse next week and the Russians will serve up Putin to Ukrainian War Crimes tribunals, and deliver its gold reserves by train to Brussels, and let the US put missile bases along China's border. Time will tell.
Funny how after that data leak on Twitter, the "groypers" turned out to mostly reside in Pakistan and work at troll farms.
Should we be grateful he's not planning a coup d'état?
Um ... he's not planning a coup, right?
Europe is the common denominator.
Not Russia.
Biden was a globalist muppet. I am glad to see the assholes that defended Zelensky before as some paragon of democracy are finally shutting their stupid faces up.
Enigma,
Earlier in the day the Heavy Brigade of 300 defeated 2,000 enemy. Tennyson, who wrote the Charge of the Light Brigade that you posted (thank you) also wrote "The Charge of the Heavy Brigade."
The light brigrade was a massive and deadly bungle. Why do we always hear about that and never the heavy brigade?
The Charge of the Heavy Brigade at Balaclava
The charge of the gallant three hundred, the Heavy Brigade!
Down the hill, down the hill, thousands of Russians,
Thousands of horsemen, drew to the valley–and stay’d;
For Scarlett and Scarlett’s three hundred were riding by
When the points of the Russian lances arose in the sky;
And he call’d, ‘Left wheel into line!’ and they wheel’d and obey’d.
Then he look’d at the host that had halted he knew not why,
And he turn’d half round, and he bade his trumpeter sound
To the charge, and he rode on ahead, as he waved his blade
To the gallant three hundred whose glory will never die–
‘Follow,’ and up the hill, up the hill, up the hill,
Follow’d the Heavy Brigade.
The trumpet, the gallop, the charge, and the might of the fight!
Thousands of horsemen had gather’d there on the height,
With a wing push’d out to the left and a wing to the right,
And who shall escape if they close? but he dash’d up alone
Thro’ the great gray slope of men,
Sway’d his sabre, and held his own
Like an Englishman there and then.
All in a moment follow’d with force
Three that were next in their fiery course,
Wedged themselves in between horse and horse,
Fought for their lives in the narrow gap they had made–
Four amid thousands! and up the hill, up the hill,
Galloped the gallant three hundred, the Heavy Brigade.
Fell like a cannon-shot,
Burst like a thunderbolt,
Crash’d like a hurricane,
Broke thro’ the mass from below,
Drove thro’ the midst of the foe,
Plunged up and down, to and fro,
Rode flashing blow upon blow,
Brave Inniskillens and Greys
Whirling their sabres in circles of light!
And some of us, all in amaze,
Who were held for a while from the fight,
And were only standing at gaze,
When the dark-muffled Russian crowd
Folded its wings from the left and the right,
And roll’d them around like a cloud,–
O, mad for the charge and the battle were we,
When our own good redcoats sank from sight,
Like drops of blood in a dark-gray sea,
And we turn’d to each other, whispering, all dismay’d,
‘Lost are the gallant three hundred of Scarlett’s Brigade!’
‘Lost one and all’ were the words
Mutter’d in our dismay;
But they rode like victors and lords
Thro’ the forest of lances and swords
In the heart of the Russian hordes,
They rode, or they stood at bay–
Struck with the sword-hand and slew,
Down with the bridle-hand drew
The foe from the saddle and threw
Underfoot there in the fray–
Ranged like a storm or stood like a rock
In the wave of a stormy day;
Till suddenly shock upon shock
Stagger’d the mass from without,
Drove it in wild disarray,
For our men gallopt up with a cheer and a shout,
And the foeman surged, and waver’d, and reel’d
Up the hill, up the hill, up the hill, out of the field,
And over the brow and away.
Glory to each and to all, and the charge that they made!
Glory to all the three hundred, and all the Brigade!
John Henry
Vietnam posed zero danger to the US while Russia is an existential threat to Western Europe. My first thought was JFK's inaugural speech: "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15324713/Ukraine-agrees-peace-deal-brokered-Trump-US-official-says.html
Bob Boyd said...
So the Russians are on the verge of defeat in Ukraine, their economy is about to collapse, Putin will soon be ousted and they are about to roll across Europe like a wave and take Paris.
Okay.
Putin will be killed by his own people if he accepts anything like what Europe countered with.
France, England, and Germany all have unpopular leftist globalist governments that will be falling to nationalist parties at some point in the next few years. They all need this war.
Just a reminder, the USAAF lost twice as many men killed over Europe (@50m) as the Marines did in the Pacific. (@25m)
And re the question yesterday, was the bombardier who pulled the pickle in a B-17 over Germany acting unlawfully? The polite fiction was that he was bombing a military target. The reality is that in the first years of bombing, the bulk of bombs fell 1-5 miles from the intended target, mostly on populated areas. So was he (and everyone else but he is the one who pulled the trigger) acting lawfully? Would "Just following orders" have sufficed if the Germans had won?
(Yossarian refused to bomb an Italian village, dropped his bombs in the sea and got a medal for a beautiful bombing pattern)
John Henry
Kakistocracy said...
Russia signals it could reject modified US peace plan for Ukraine ~ FT
'Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov suggests Moscow would walk away from proposal that differs substantially from the spirit of the Alaska talks'
"Spirit of Anchorage": Trump capitulated from the get-go. It's as if Russia has a proxy working on their behalf in Washington DC.
Moscow clearly wants to convince Trump that a deal requires pressure on Ukraine rather than them. That is to be expected in a negotiation.
But the reality is that Europe requires a strong and independent Ukraine for its own defense. Ukraine acts as a bulwark against Russian aggression towards the rest of Europe and so anything that undermines that isn't just unacceptable to Ukraine, but also unacceptable to Europe. However, a strong and independent Ukraine is exactly what Putin does not want.
I look forward to this stupid warmongering coward signing up to fight in the Ukrainian Army soon.
And heller made that up
"Russia is an existential threat to Western Europe"
Just like the next pretty young girl was a threat to Katie Curic, the primary charge against Russia is that it is too big and powerful, and therefore must be cut down to size. This has nothing to do with the actions of Russia, which helped Western Europe defeat the Nazis and sold us Alaska, but otherwise, has tried its best to stay out of European affairs, and yet Tennyson is writing glorious poems about Britains fighting wars on Russian soil centuries ago, Napoleon also wanted to tame Russia, Hitler too, and they mainly wanted Russian resources, which are massive.
So the only logical course is to destroy all possible threats. This is known as "Structural Realism" and Howard is in the company of men like John McCain, John Bolton, Dick Cheney, Joe Biden, etc, etc, and the result of this policy has been endless war. And inevitably, after Russia, war with China is required, according to this logic, since "China is an existential threat to Taiwan" it's own province which we have been slowly wresting from it since the close of WWII.
At some point, you can only create wealth to build weapons and raise armies out of financial tricks for so long before the rest of the world gets tired of it, and the dollar collapses. Just like the British Empire, just like the Soviet Empire, just like the Austro-Hungarian Empire, just like the Romans, like the Greeks....
Howard said...
Vietnam posed zero danger to the US while Russia is an existential threat to Western Europe. My first thought was JFK's inaugural speech: "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country".
It should be clear at this point who killed JFK and why they did it.
Until the diem coup a war could have been forestalled
Howard,
Milton Friedman said it more eloquently in a book at the time. I don't have time to find the book but Brave AI summarizes what he said thusly:
Milton Friedman critiqued John F. Kennedy's famous inaugural address line, "Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country," arguing that neither half of the statement reflects a relationship between citizen and government worthy of free men in a free society. He contended that the paternalistic "what your country can do for you" implies government is a patron and the citizen a ward, contradicting the free man's belief in personal responsibility for his own destiny. Conversely, the organismic "what you can do for your country" implies government is a master or deity, and the citizen a servant or votary. Friedman asserted that to the free man, the country is merely the collection of individuals who compose it, not something above them.
John Henry
Trivia: Friedman always identified himself as a liberal, in the classical sense, what we call a libertarian today.
Once, in the 70's or early 80s, the WSJ called him a "conservative" and he got them to print a retraction.
John Henry
The why/die rhyme:
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die
***
Ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee, we're all gonna die
He made the whole book up, though based on his experiences as a B-25 pickle puller in WWII.
Still a nice story and believable to anyone who was ever in the military. I would rate it as "This ain't no shit"
John Henry
"Funny how after that data leak on Twitter, the "groypers" turned out to mostly reside in Pakistan and work at troll farms."
It wasn't a data leak!
Ann Althouse said...
The why/die rhyme:
Thanks Ann. Now I have a huge knot on my forehead where I smacked myself. And I'm going to feel stupid for the rest of the day.
I've known the song for 55 years, have heard it 1000 times, could even sing most of it from memory.
I also know the Tennyson line well.
And never before did I connect the two. How much more obvious could it be?
(Slapping my forehead a second time for good measure)
John Henry
Ann Althouse said...
"Funny how after that data leak on Twitter, the "groypers" turned out to mostly reside in Pakistan and work at troll farms."
It wasn't a data leak!
It was a VPN detection service.
@John henry: "The light brigrade was a massive and deadly bungle. Why do we always hear about that and never the heavy brigade?"
I suspect the Light Brigade gets all the attention because of its tragic, fatalistic message and world-famous pithy couplet about combat:
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die
---> "Do or die"
~~~ Never say fail
~~~ Win or die trying
~~~ Failure is not an option
The deal Zelensky signed: no longer includes amnesty guarantees for atrocities committed during the war
But what about audits of where the $100s of billions went?
It also basically amounts to a demand for Russia to stop fighting right now so that Ukraine stops losing territory, and so that Europe can move troops in, rebuild fortifications, and restart the war after they have had a chance to restore the armies. This is why Germany is re-instituting the draft.
Trump and Zelensky, under the deal Zelensky signed, will decide the tricky areas of territory together then tell Russia what they have decided, I guess.
It is a kind of progress, in that positions are being spelled out, but it is not any kind of a "peace plan" and plainly, Zelensky doesn't think his people have had enough yet, since they seem still to be trying to get to the "last Ukrainian." Only an incredibly corrupt country could have been convinced to destroy itself in the service of a foreign power to this extent.
John Henry: Intro to "Capitalism and Freedom.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/smackdown-john-f-kennedy-vs-milton-friedman/
Until 1870 France was the No. 1 military power in Europe and had been for over 200 years. Even after their defeat, France was considered equal to Germany. As late as 1939, Churchill was praising the magnificent French army and was shattered when it was defeated.
A large number of French elite still believe they're a great power influencing events. Like a fat 50 year old who still thinks he's the High School QB with 6-pac abs.
Russia has plenty of tactical nukes and missiles. They will come in handy if the French decide to March on Moscow again.
’Vietnam posed zero danger to the US while Russia is an existential threat to Western Europe.’
The only threat to Western Europe is Islam.
Its curious how these weird Euro creeps who become PM or President all love popping off about Russia and World affairs. Macron, Starmer, and the Kraut leader are all massively unpopular. None of them are liked by the people. But like Dick Cheney in the 2000s or Mitch McConnell today, they just cant shut up.
Their contempt for their own people is overpowering.
Here is a prediction, based on the news reports of what Zelensky actually agreed to with Trump. Odessa will be part of an independent, Russian speaking oblast, or will be part of Russia, when all is said and done.
I doubt that the Russian supply lines became too far extended pass the dnieper
The day before yesterday Achilles wrote:
"Russia doesn't want Ukraine. Putin sees no value in holding it, at least the Western portions of it. It would be an occupied space and it would be a drain on Russian resources to occupy it and hold it. The retard Neocons here spewing garbage about Putin wanting to rebuild the Soviet empire are liars or stupid.
Russia wants a buffer against NATO expansion and he wants access to the Black Sea as well as a land corridor with friendly regimes to the south.
Putin has decided that if Ukraine will not agree to remain neutral his only option is to make sure that Ukraine will never be a threat at least for a generation or two. That means setting up a meat grinder and destroying a generation of Ukrainian men. That plus securing Black sea access meets his objectives. He doesn't want to annex a population that hates Russia"
I think Achilles is exactly right. A cogent analysis.
I would like to see the war end and I hope Trump's efforts can succeed, but even if they trust Trump, he will be gone soon and then what? They don't trust the Dems or most Republicans who might replace him not to undo anything Trump does. Why should they? Do you?
The country isn't the government.
Bob Boyd said...
I would like to see the war end and I hope Trump's efforts can succeed, but even if they trust Trump, he will be gone soon and then what? They don't trust the Dems or most Republicans who might replace him not to undo anything Trump does. Why should they? Do you?
I think it is worse than this.
It isn't just the leaders of these countries that switch moods on an election. The problem is that universal suffrage leads to war.
If you let 50 percent of the population vote and they have no direct consequences for starting a war, i.e. we are sending men to fight and not women, you are going to get a lot more war.
It is the same effect as letting people who do not pay taxes vote.
It is easy to predict how Democracy with universal suffrage will turn out. People will vote for their own interests.
The best way to prevent unnecessary wars is to make military service mandatory without college deferments.
It would be an occupied space and it would be a drain on Russian resources to occupy it and hold it. The retard Neocons here spewing garbage about Putin wanting to rebuild the Soviet empire are liars or stupid.
"It would be an occupied space and it would be a drain on Russian resources to occupy it and hold it." that's the goal of the neocons, the drain on the Russians, and they aren't the morons, but the people who believe their lies? Those are the morons. The neocons who are making the decisions in private are not posting on these threads.
“Drones have pretty much changed things.“
Drones are the same as machine guns in ww1 or rifles in the civil war, they change the value of offense vs defense. You can fight a bloody war with or without them, you just do it differently.
Nuclear explosives are a weapon that changed war and have made a strategic change, you can only destroy another nation via conventional forces to the degree that they don’t just go ape shit and decide that it is better for the world to die than for them to lose.
Tactical nukes are a gamble. India could use them against China to poison the mountain passes in the Himalayas against land invasion as a defense, and China would probably not nuke India, but if Russia nuked a troop concentration you can bet that one of their centers would be nuked, with the risk of escalation.
Macron and his generals are likely completey full of shit, as are the Europeans as a rule. In any case, this is a reserve force that is, at least as of now, fully voluntary- so I don't see any problem with it. The really hilarious part, though, is this- the French are literally inviting their real enemies to live in their cities and seem oblivious to it.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.