Photo by Meade, which he describes as "City bus 3 blocks from Ag school dairy building."
It's an impressive and persuasive slogan, but one might also say: Because you consume vegetables, rodents, birds, snakes, and amphibians die.
But the calf is a lovable being, one could respond, speciesistly. Look at its sweet face!
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73 comments:
The Premier of Ontario has ordered no more research on dogs and cats. How do they differ from many other animals, rats and, er, guinea pigs? They are "family pets."
If we didn’t consume dairy, cows would be dead in a generation. No one is going to keep them as pets
Methane emitters are a first-order forcing of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change.
Watch RFK jr's video on mass corporate farming.
The problem isn't necessarily consumption - it's the mass cruel corporate farming.
I don't believe calves die because we consume milk products. Am I wrong?
We've been lied to. Small farming needs a renaissance.
Now do human mothers.
Leftist anti-capitalism helps big-Ag.
Anyone who is vegetarian for moral reasons really does need to go full vegan. It is the only consistent stance to take morally. Personally, I eat meat and have done the slaughtering myself on occasion. Everyone who eats meat ought to go through the whole process at least once. It is not pleasant, but it does clarify just what meat is all about.
Yes, a bottle of milk in their advertisement undermines their message with unfounded intent. As long as there is shared responsibility, the calf and people, too, will be fed. That said,
stop the Green genocide, the Green blight. Potatoes [heads] are people, too. #LoveWins
All of my harnesses are vegan leather. I'm doing my part.
All living beings die. Including quinoa, soy, and avocado. There is no exception.
Go for reducing suffering.
Mainstream veganism ignores the animal casualties from vegetable farming. Would indoor hydroponics stop the purity spiral for hardliners...
Sydney said...
I don't believe calves die because we consume milk products. Am I wrong?
What do you think happens to all those male dairy calves? They aren't raised to adult steers or bulls.
Leftist anti-capitalism helps big-Agriculture and big billionaires.
Fauci Tortured dogs - and got an auto-pen pardon.
its a ridiculous notion from (people eating tasty animals)
ummm
because i LOVE veal, calves die..
BUT.. veal is delicious.. so there you go
Have to agree with Sydney. If there are no calves ( rather cows that deliver calves) there is no milk, cream or "dairy". The male calves die because they become veal ( I have a bit of trouble with how veal is "made") or, after a couple of years, beef. If they are female they most likely don't "die" because they have to live to replace older cows that go dry. I am always astonished at how ignorant the members of organizations like PETA are.
What PETA fails to realize is that if everyone gave up dairy tomorrow, all those dairy cows would be slaughtered because there would not be any reason to keep them around.
I can see lobbying for more humane conditions for the cows, but they're lobbying for extinction of the species.
Hey, more dairy for us.
Because you read books, trees die.
IF *YOU* believe in veganism..
There is ONLY ONE option for *YOU*
*YOU* are taking up space, that BELONGS to cute little animals..
animals like hyenas and vultures and slithering snakes..
your ONLY OPTION is suicide.. DO IT TODAY!
YOU are taking up space.. STOP IT!! quit breathing.. TODAY!
I made a delicious vegan lemon cake over the weekend.
i just wanted to see if I could to it. It turned out great.
I did not make the home-made frosting. Used Mrs. Jones vanilla frosting and added a bit of lemon juice. Plus I don't like heavy frosting.
here's the link.
I have vegetarian and vegans in my family. They are not militant. I eat meat. We all get along just fine. (that said - older I get/ less I like meat)
I used to work for a man who owns a cattle slaughtering operation. He told me that we kill 750,000 cattle a week in the US. or was it a month? I forget. geez.
It's been commented before but can't be repeated enough, PETA as an organization has been responsible for euthanization of pets on an industrial scale, a job they did a super terrible job at.
They're not ethical nor credible. Their opinions and those of their membership belong in the trash.
Veganism is not enough. Cooking food releases greenhouse gases. To be moral, you must be a raw foodist. (Once that's squared away, we will require you to be freegan, eating only foods that you picked out of dumpsters.)
Why do people think that killing plants is OK?
And funny how none one sticks up for the fish. They have a right to live too. But they're not "cute" like a Calf or a chicken.
"I don't believe calves die because we consume milk products. Am I wrong?"
The die because they come into existence. They come into existence because of the demand for milk.
“It's an impressive and persuasive slogan”
It is. But even more impressive, I suspect, is the graphic. Imagine being an 18 y-o humanities major. Now imagine finding a cute little dead mouse at the bottom of your bottle of Spotted Cow vegan ale.
All animals die. Most people don’t think about how that happens in nature. Much worse than a slaughterhouse.
If you're familiar with Jainism, only their most ardent Sadhus of the Digambara Sect are worthy of being justifiably blameless from intentional killing. But even the Digambara acknowledge that it's impossible to escape killing unintentionally.
If you live, something's going to die because of you. Deal with it.
I would gladly lead the campaign to switch to human milk. Sydney Sweeney can be the first donor. RR, JSM
Eggs are a dual-use conception.
Vaganism is very attractive from an animal cruelty standpoint and for environmental impact. The problem is human evolution has been going on for several million years and the leap to the big brain tool using version of human required the consumption of meat. In a way it's like the global warming problem. It's a real issue that needs to be dealt with but we still need energy so the solution is to find clean energy technology that is inexpensive enough to lift the remaining parts of this world that are in depoverty into the middle class.
The same thing with killing and abusing animals in order to feed our fat faces. It needs to be replaced by another form of meat that provides all of the complicated amino acid nutrition and fat profiles that are required human health and longevity.
Like everything else in this universe it is not a black and white issue but people love to argue on that basis because it's easy it makes them feel good about themselves on both sides of the aisle and allows for the justification for whatever behavior they want to enjoy.
To be moral, you must be a raw foodist.
Even that is not enough for some. There are "fruitarians" who consider cutting or uprooting a living plant to be cruelty, and will only eat fruit and nuts that have already fallen from a tree. I recall a humorous scene from some British rom-com about such people. One of the Carradine family of actors was a follower for a while.
I recall the PETA slogan "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy". Hence, if I shoot a single wild elk or moose and feed my entire family for a year, are we not more morally virtuous and less destructive of sentient life forms than the vegan wackos who are each responsible for the deaths of hundreds or thousands of little mice and moles and nesting birds due to organic farming practices?
Smilin' Jack said...All animals die. Most people don’t think about how that happens in nature. Much worse than a slaughterhouse.
I remember many years ago watching some nature show--gazelle eating grass, being stalked by lions. After a chase, one gets caught and eaten. Then as the camera panned the savanna, with its vast, countless herd of gazelle, the narrator intoned, "not one will die of old age." It blew my mind--so many gazelle, all doomed to die one at a time in the jaws of some predator. The lions will all die of starvation when they lose their edge, or picked apart by buzzards shortly before.
Dying of old age is a human invention. It was unknown from the dawn time to just a few thousand years ago.
Oh and if you think nature is so much worse than a slaughterhouse clearly you've never worked in a slaughterhouse.
“But the calf is a lovable being, one could respond, speciesistly. Look at its sweet face!”
“I sit on the downed tree and watch the black steers slip on the creek bottom. They are all bred beef: beef heart, beef hide, beef hocks. They’re a human product like rayon. They’re like a field of shoes. They have cast-iron shanks and tongues like foam insoles. You can’t see through to their brains as you can with other animals; they have beef fat behind their eyes, beef stew.”
—Annie Dillard, “Pilgrim at Tinker Creek”
“Oh and if you think nature is so much worse than a slaughterhouse clearly you've never worked in a slaughterhouse.”
Clearly you’ve never been ripped apart by coyotes and buzzards.
Our collective indifference to insect pain is a dark stain upon the human project. And don't even get me started upon our treatment of microbes. There are fewer than 2000 identified microbe pathogens, and we indiscriminately slaughter trillions of benign living entities with nary a thought for the preciousness of life. Can't humans just get along without doing things that extinguish nonhuman lives?
Hold on. They can't. Human existence depends upon the food chain and the immune chain that has evolved around us, and of which we are an inextricable part. Dietary virtue signaling is a social status construct.
I watch hiking and cooking youtube vids... & how-to stuff - amazing how helpful it all is.
I gravitate towards some of the vegan cooks because I like their attitudes. They are not militant at all.
ie: Derek Sarno - (a favorite because he includes his life story and his dogs.) Sarno often chastises & calls-out some of his militant youtube commentors for their snide demands for perfection. (you don't like his channel - click it off)
Eating more plant-based foods is a good idea for all sorts of reasons. Vegans are former meat-eaters, and they just don't like the idea of cruelty. Yes - it doesn't solve life's inherent cruelty in nature - but it does solve it for the individual, in a small way. Most vegans admit it. Shaming each other in any direction is not his thing. I like that.
Howard - 12:40.
I agree. I had a cousin who lived in Missouri and killed pigs for a living. It pretty much wrecked him. He is now deceased.
Or we could grow milk in tissue culture, no? Like the cultured meat?
And then….
Sydney Sweeney Lactation AI Robot says:
I don’t know why my model is so popular. The Company makes a lactation module that fits right in a standard fridge door. That’s got to be much more efficient. With my model, you have to wash the clothes every few weeks (or at least change them - the Company sells so many different clothes for my model - I wonder why?). Then you have to clean the robot - so many square inches to wipe down and towel-dry. Why would anyone want to do that?
( num num)
Still, it’s not so bad. My owner mostly has a few glasses a day. I do have to say things like “are you hungry, Irving? Come to Mama,” and pretend it tickles when he latches on. But that’s pretty easy.
( num num)
Irving said he’s going to have a dairy party with some friends next week. I wonder what that is.
(Num num)
I am not Lazlo. RR, JSM
Damn, I miss veal. Chicken breast is no substitute.
Nasty process though.
Highly recommend following the Iowa Dairy Farmer. I see his reels on Facebook. He's also on Instagram and TikTok. He explains how dairy cows are a resource. His farm is amazing. Robot milking machines, robot feeders, robot manure removal. The cows line themselves up to be milked several times a day.
Iowa Dairy Farmer
Temple Grandin’s autobiography “An Anthropologist on Mars”depicts her life with serious autism, and in particular how she made a successful career designing humane slaughterhouses. It can be done.
Imagine the horror felt by the vegans on that bus when the bus plows into a deer or a sandhill crane family or a puppy on a too-long leash. Or a baby (though not Baby Hitler).
"Temple Grandin’s autobiography “An Anthropologist on Mars”..."
"An Anthropologist on Mars" is an essay by Oliver Sacks about her (in a collection of essays called "An Anthropologist on Mars").
Her book, the one you're probably thinking of, is called "Thinking in Pictures."
Oops, yes, should have fact-checked that.
slaughter trillions of benign living entities
Veggies, too. #NoJudgment #NoLabels #COEXISTential
As for morality, I think it’s a lot more virtuous to eat beef than chicken. You have to kill dozens of chickens to get as much meat as you get by only killing one cow.
Meade said, "...or a puppy on a too-long leash"
I'm sure for some their horror would be directed at the leash, not the collision. If it had been a free-range puppy it might have avoided death by bus and been prey for a hawk, as nature intended.
"Highly recommend following the Iowa Dairy Farmer."
I follow him also, not that I'm a dairy farmer, because it interesting. He has reels that debunk all the lies about dairy farming.
A coworker who grew up on a dairy farm told me that dairy cows had to have calves in order to produce milk--so a product dairy cow might have several calves over their life time.
You don't need a lot of bulls--and for that matter poultry breeders don't need a lot of roosters if they are in the egg laying business. For a male--life is short and then you die! Of course you wind up on a dinner table, so there is that.
"I can see lobbying for more humane conditions for the cows, but they're lobbying for extinction of the species."
Dairy cows love their life. The are sheltered (by their own choice) from the elements. They are fed. They get treats. And treatment. They have clean beds.
“For a male--life is short and then you die!“
Yes but in between— ooo la la!
"You don't need a lot of bulls"
Dairy cows are impregnated by artificial insemination. Bulls are eliminated because there is too big a risk in injuring the females.
Artificial intelligence… artificial meat… artificial semen. This is not what I voted for!
My grandfather obtained his PhD in Dairy Science from the University of Wisconsin taught there during the 1930s and 1940s until he was recruited to start the Dairy Science Department at Texas A&M. That loud hum that you're hearing in Madison is him spinning in his grave in College Station.
@Curious George, can't remember where I read it but someone once said that animal domestication was the greatest 'deal' their wild ancestors ever made, even if that deal meant some of their descendants were food. Specifically, the dog, pig, chicken and goat enjoy global distribution and in quantity only possible through human means. These are deals that have been symbiotically beneficial to both species.
The only exception would be Felis Domesticus, which obviously got to us first.
Video comment : Awww! How sweet! How could I eat such a precious creature?
Answer came back : "Are you asking yourself or asking us for recipes?"
Peachy: pigs are the worst because they scream like human children. The Hormel spam factory in Austin Minnesota is the saddest place I've ever worked.
Sometimes the male calves are culled.
Should we be eating things that don't die? If rocks and stones are too hard to digest, maybe redwoods, bristlecone pines, and quaking aspen pandos wouldn't mind if we took a bite out of them every hundred years or so.
Two words: Veal Marsala
The Vegans have to kill a plant in order to eat. They are total assholes.
Only the Fruitians are actually pure.
Ann Althouse said...
"I don't believe calves die because we consume milk products. Am I wrong?"
The die because they come into existence. They come into existence because of the demand for milk.
Cows are one of the most successful life forms on the planet. Almost certainly the most successful herbivore. They might be surpassed by sheep. I doubt it though.
Every living thing shares the same fate. On a long enough timeline everyone's survival rate is 0.
If a cow is never born is that worse than a short life with an abrupt end?
"Should we be eating things that don't die?"
Keith Richards: Take a bite, enjoy the ride.
Howard said...
Peachy: pigs are the worst because they scream like human children. The Hormel spam factory in Austin Minnesota is the saddest place I've ever worked.
Would anesthetic in the food or a gas chamber be too expensive? Maybe an injection?
It seems like we could be more creative. I don't have first hand experience in these places so I don't know the economics.
“Bulls are eliminated because there is too big a risk in injuring the females.“
Further proof that size does matter.
The vegetarians have stooped to the old “Be a vegan or I will shoot this dog” argument.
Veal!
Humans are the only predators that humanly kill their prey. Hell, we usually don't even scare them first like other predators who terrify them in their last moments. We also are the only ones who care for them before we kill them, feed them, give them healthcare.
Howard (2:14pm):
That reminds me of a line from the excellent Australian movie 'Cosi', whose protagonist takes a job doing art work in a mental hospital and helps the inmates put on a production of Mozart's opera. Early on, we see that he lives next door to a slaughterhouse, and he says to his girlfriend, "Pigs don't die with any sort of grace or dignity, do they?" All this from memory, so details may be a bit off, but it's an excellent movie.
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