"Mr. Mangione, 27, is still charged with second-degree murder. The decision by Justice Carro is a blow to the Manhattan district attorney’s office, led by Alvin L. Bragg. The prosecutors had argued that a terrorism charge was warranted because Mr. Mangione had targeted an executive 'of the United States’ largest health insurance company in front of the hotel where the company was about to conduct its annual investor conference' in Midtown Manhattan, which they said was 'widely recognized as the media capital of the world.' Mr. Bragg has said that the act was 'a frightening, well-planned, targeted murder that was intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation.'"
The NYT reports.
Mangione also faces charges in federal court in Pennsylvania state court.
ADDED:
Here's the NY statute showing what it takes for murder in the first degree: "(xiii) the victim was killed in furtherance of an act of terrorism, as defined in paragraph (b) of subdivision one of
section 490.05 of this chapter...." Section 490.05 defines "terrorism" to include acts intended to "intimidate or coerce a civilian population."
Posts
58 comments:
Well looks like there's a greater than even chance the new Hero to the Left will walk after all. Hearts swoon across campuses coast to coast.
2nd degree murder? Alvin Bragg, consummate professional prosecutor brings his best. How could this not be a case of cold-blooded pre-meditated Murder in the First Degree?
Simmer down now. NY Murder 2 is still common law murder, punishable by 15 to life. It is not some kind of manslaughter by another name, like some states do. Since NY doesn’t have a death penalty, this is not a huge step down. Might even help compel a plea. CC, JSM
a judge more clueless than Fat Alvin,
Is the terrorism charge the ONLY basis for first degree murder? The perp allllllegedly identified the victim, intentionally stalked the victim and shot him in the back.
Is that not covered in the first degree murder statutes?
I agree with Aggie. First degree murder.
Bragg is stupid.
Is this ruling reversible?
yes it was a deliberate act, with a political purpose, that is splitting hair with an electron microscope,
Premeditation & Planning = 1st degree
The USA is two different countries. We are not the same.
"2nd degree murder? Alvin Bragg, consummate professional prosecutor brings his best. How could this not be a case of cold-blooded pre-meditated Murder in the First Degree?"
New York law has long had this quirk. A plain cold-blooded intentional murder is only second degree murder unless there is an additional factor — notably if the victim is a police officer or a prison guard. The "terrorism" ground for elevating second to first was a post-9/11 innovation.
"Premeditation & Planning = 1st degree"
Don't write that on the New York bar exam.
it is certainly a predicate of first degree murder, now he was not a public official, so one might be able to slide that past,
Well, it seems if you're planning to murder someone, New York is the best place to do it.
One alleged diary entry suggested that someone should "wack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean-counter convention," according to a court filing. "It’s targeted, precise, and doesn’t risk innocents. Most importantly, the point is self-evident," the diary entry reads, according to the filing. “The point is made in the news headline ‘Insurance CEO killed at annual investors conference.'"
Instead, [Judge] Carro suggested that the killing of Thompson did not meet the law's definition of terrorism. "While the defendant was clearly expressing an animus toward UHC, and the health care industry generally, it does not follow that his goal was to ‘intimidate and coerce a civilian population,’ and indeed, there was no evidence presented of such a goal," Carro wrote.
"Don't write that on the New York bar exam."
I always stay as far away from NY as possible.
Note: the statute says "a civilian population," not "the civilian population."
Health care CEOs, as "a civilian population," may disagree with Judge Carro.
What john mosby and the Professor said. Like the oddball naming of their courts, NY appears to be weird in having separately titled homicide statutes for murder and manslaughter rather than distinguishing manslaughter and murder by degree within the same title, and then further qualifying First Degree murder to be limited by who the victim(s) are, and calling all other premeditated murders Second Degree.
Here's the link to the NY First Degree Murder statute.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.27
This was essentially a fully planned political assassination- I just don't see how this wasn't 1st degree murder by NY's own definition of the law. Since NY doesn't have a death penalty, it probably won't make any difference in the end- if the jury convicts, the sentence is likely to for life. The real hurdle was always going to be getting 12 jurors in NY to convict this guy who has become a hero to the Left's lunatic fringe. Maybe the 2nd degree charge makes that more likely than less though I thought the jury was likely get to choose between the two if the judge had ruled otherwise- am I wrong about that- did it always have to be one or the other given to the jury?
Dear Brian's family, normal people, conservatives, and parents,
When your enemy says they hate you and want you dead, believe them.
Brian agrees, sends his love,
Charlie Kirk's Soul (allegedly)
Why would any CEO want to attend an investor day in NYC now?
And now folks you see people can kill you or your family to 'make a statement' in NY and walk away laughing... I do suggest you stay away from that place.
By the judge's reasoning, had Kirk been assassinated in New York, that also wouldn't have been a valid 1st degree murder charge.
"Well, I'm not Judge Gallo. I'm Judge Carro."
oh yes My Cousin Vinnie, written by Englishmen,
The federal case, however, is more likely to keep him in prison for the entirety of his natural life and might even get him the death penalty.
Is there a quirk where they can make him an illegal immigrant and let him slip out a side door, too?
I’m with those who say just avoid NY state…
..."A plain cold-blooded intentional murder is only second degree murder unless there is an additional factor — notably if the victim is a police officer or a prison guard...."
What the heck, where did this rot come from?
'In New York, First Degree Murder charges are reserved for our Union Member clients only ! After the funeral, your killer will get Special Priority in the courts, believe you, me.'
john mosby said...
Simmer down now. NY Murder 2 is still common law murder, punishable by 15 to life. It is not some kind of manslaughter by another name, like some states do. Since NY doesn’t have a death penalty, this is not a huge step down. Might even help compel a plea.
----
Sounds rational.
"2nd degree murder? Alvin Bragg, consummate professional prosecutor brings his best. How could this not be a case of cold-blooded pre-meditated Murder in the First Degree?"
New York law has long had this quirk. A plain cold-blooded intentional murder is only second degree murder unless there is an additional factor — notably if the victim is a police officer or a prison guard. The "terrorism" ground for elevating second to first was a post-9/11 innovation.
In NYC, al animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Second degree murder in New York is still a big deal. Since the death penalty was abolished, first degree murder primarily addresses aggravating factors. When I took the bar exam those many years ago, I think that first degree murder was for killing a police officer, maybe murder for hire, but I can't remember any other categories
The left love their terrorists. God HELP us.
@Althouse (9:38), thank you for the clarification.
First degree murder in NY is what Texas considers Capital Murder. Capital Murder is the only way to get Capital Punishment (death penalty). The problem with Mangione, and now Robinson, also Brown, and perhaps Crooks had he hit his target and survived, is that they killed in cold blood. The person was completely unrelated and had not harmed them directly. So, we have this from Mangione's judge:
"While the defendant was clearly expressing an animus toward UHC, and the health care industry generally, it does not follow that his goal was to ‘intimidate and coerce a civilian population,’ and indeed, there was no evidence presented of such a goal," Carro wrote.
Why the animus? There is nothing that UHC, and especially the CEO, did to Mangione to provoke an assault. While I think "terrorism" is getting loosely defined; the evidence presented by the state seems to suggest the goal of assassinating the CEO at that location was intimidation of the board. What other motive "animus" did Mangione have? He had to have some motive, because he killed the CEO? Was it just because he was a CEO of an insurer, because that's an even larger scope of terrorism?
I already stay as far away from NYC, a city that I used to love, as much as I can. The left cheer for murder, and wonder why America is pissed.
there was no evidence presented of such a goal,
If true, this is a big screw up by Bragg as it was clearly intended to coerce and intimidate employees of health insurance companies.
Unfortunately not life without parole, so if convicted he could apply for parole after 25 years. The floor is usually 15 years from what I see.
Well, that should make Achilles happy. He said last week how he doesn’t understand how conservatives here were upset that Mangione murdered the UHC CEO.
It used to be the thought process, at least in Texas, that the rationale for Capitol Murder was the likelihood the killer would kill again. The original language was, similar to NY, the killing of multiple people (already showing desire to kill many) or killing in commission of another crime (killing for personal gain, suggests one would do it again). Then there was outcry about killing of first responders, the thought being that if a person was willing to kill a first responder, who wouldn't they kill? Then the outcry about children, because if you would kill children, who wouldn't you kill?
I guess with all the politically motivated assassinations, the question comes, if you would kill someone over political disagreements, then who wouldn't you kill? I think when you consider that for a bit; the answer is a lot of them, but perhaps something not worth the death penalty.
"While the defendant was clearly expressing an animus toward UHC, and the health care industry generally, it does not follow that his goal was to ‘intimidate and coerce a civilian population,’ and indeed, there was no evidence presented of such a goal."
This is wild to me. Isn't "evidence" presented at the trial? Am I just misremembering political messages on the bullets? I think a reasonable jury could conclude he was trying to intimidate and send a message.
Makes me glad for Utah's statutes. Poor Thompson family.
TIL that healthcare CEOs are a military population.
Guess - Mangione will be out in less than 10 years. If not acquitted . He is a hero to the Mandani AOC left.
Health Care and other businesses - stay away from NYC.
The left want you dead.
NY may have idiosyncrasies in its homicide classifications, but I think when you put messages on your bullet casings, they are messages for people other than the victim. (The "manifesto" to, as I understand it though there have been false reprints floating around, said the victims (plural) had it coming and answered the "why" by quoting health care stats). Whether those messages were to tell the public you don't like the state of health care or UHC (2d degree) or to intimidate a cohort of civilians (how I read the 1st deg) seems to be to be a question for the jury.
Not a member of the NY bar, but I would expect the state can appeal the dismissal of charges (they can in Wisconsin), though I don't know if this appeal is as a right. If anyone knows, I join the other poster in wanting to know the answer.
JMHO but "Terror..." should apply when act directly impacts random persons: bomb left on random city bus; shooting random people at a school, church, any public assembly. Bomb of building which houses specifically targeted business, but large enough to impact random persons, would also apply.
"Terrorism" is an act which causes ordinary persons to restrict ordinary activities due to concern for their personal safety.
Case at hand, attack was restricted to narrow class (medical insurance top executives) at time little likely to involve damage to random individuals. Therefore not "terrorism."
To me this is just another confirmation that those in charge of looking after the people of NY's legal affairs are unqualified for the job.
This was half-expected though. I'm assuming there are still federal charges to be answered?
I already stay as far away from NYC, a city that I used to love, as much as I can. The left cheer for murder, and wonder why America is pissed.
Yep lots of cheering today on the Left for this announcement. Quite sick.
"...NOW: People are cheering and hugging in reaction to Luigi Mangione having his terrorism charges dropped. The murder count will stand.
"Free Luigi!"
They want him to be released, and view him as a hero. We have massive issues as a country...." - Eric Daugherty - @EricLDaugh
Premeditated, terroristic First Degree Murder is permissible if the killer is sexy and the victim is unliked.
Just like the Boston Bomber...the left is all giddy and want Mangione free because he is so dreamy!!!
Of course, does Bragg apply Murder 1 to gang shootings uptown, which are clearly meant to strike terror in a population - at least the rival gang, if not the general population of the neighborhood? If he doesn't, then OJ's Law applies and Mangione shouldn't get Murder 1 either.
Of course in Bragg's defense, how many gang shootings get through the filters of "dinsee nuffin," no cash bail, etc., to the actual charging and trial stages? CC, JSM
"...Section 490.05 defines "terrorism" to include acts intended to "intimidate or coerce a civilian population."...
A woman has married herself to a Luigi A.I., and is making that proud declaration online, with her picture, dressed in a 'I *heart* Luigi' sweatshirt, the heart being a red, white, and green Italian flag with a picture of Luigi in the middle.
I'd say a civilian population is being coerced, but not into terror - into a celebration of cold-blooded murder. Much like Charlie Kirk.
"The decision by Justice Carro is a blow to the Manhattan district attorney’s office, led by Alvin L. Bragg."
Somehow, I doubt that the D.A. team feels that way.
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