Writes Peter Baker, in "In Going After His Foes, Trump Sets a Precedent That Could Haunt His Allies/President Trump’s retribution campaign risks ushering in a cycle of retaliation in which each new administration takes aim at the last one" (NYT).
"Even presidents more restrained than Mr. Trump"? You mean, like Biden?
But, we'll be told, what Biden did to Trump is different. I mean, it wasn't "ushering in a cycle of retaliation." That's something that can only be done by someone who didn't start it.
ADDED: From a column Jonathan Turley published last Friday:
Comey will continue to be vilified and lionized by different parts of the population. Yet, this is an ignoble moment that he helped bring about.... Now the man who bragged about nailing Michael Flynn will face the same false statement charge. The man who celebrated the charging of Donald Trump (including obstruction-related charges) will face his own obstruction charge. Whether karma or lawfare, Comey will now have his day in court.
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This goes up today because of Antifa being designated as a terrorist organization and the prospect of Soros and the crazy wall of connected entities subject to RICO freezes, seizures and/or the connections being exposed. Good. This is how it’s supposed to work. Good…
…and for anyone on the sidelines sympathetic to the political retaliation against the ‘mostly peaceful’, watch who squeals the loudest. Watch how ‘mostly peaceful’ protesters disappear when the money dries up. Good.
The raids started this morning. So did the squealing from the guilty proclaiming their innocence. The timing…
The Dems cooked up the fakest of fakest criminal charges - state and federal - to jail Trump for the rest of his life.
Does Peter Baker and the NYT think that we Deplorables forgot about that?
Baker and the Fake News need to STFU.
Obama not availabe for comment?
Or is he too busy hiding all the receipts on the money he embezzled from his multimillion dollar moneylaundering grift library boondoggle?
https://nypost.com/2025/09/26/us-news/money-donated-to-build-obama-library-sent-on-to-tides-group/
https://nypost.com/2025/09/26/us-news/money-donated-to-build-obama-library-sent-on-to-tides-group/
The fight started when he hit me back.
But, we'll be told, what Biden did to Trump is different. I mean, it wasn't "ushering in a cycle of retaliation."
No, it was more like "opening Pandora's box".
Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
But, we'll be told, what Biden did to Trump is different. I mean, it wasn't "ushering in a cycle of retaliation." That's something that can only be done by someone who didn't start it.
It’s called repression before there can be “retaliation.”
Plus I refuse to accept Baker’s premise of bothsiderism. Hence the term “half Baked”?
“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard." - Jim Messina (D)
The NYfT is merely a noisy vuvuzela in the Blue Left's noise machine and nothing more, so why bother? Everything they publish is just additional din to add to the sound pollution.
Baker is worried about the cycle of retaliation. In his telling, the problem isn't the initial act by the Democrats. What's new, what threatens to make it a cycle, is Trump doing it right back.
So Baker is right, Trump's precedent, not the Democrats'' is the problem. (While his logic is sound, Baker is still wrong on the facts---it has always been a crime to commit a crime.)
A new wrinkle on "civility bullshit", perhaps?
Trump, a former Democrat, learned this method from Democrats FDR, LBJ, Obama, Biden...
FDR was the true innovater, per his strongarming of the Supreme Court to get his New Deal efforts 'legalized' in the first place.
Pot calls the kettle black. It took a former Democrat to pull the Republicans out of their unresponsive stupor.
The progression from targeting Republicans to targeting Democrat-adjacent was a step too far. As it was with Reagan before, so it is today. People over party is a winning perspective. Proceed with caution. Don't bray with mischievous intent.
Democrats take us back to Palmerism under Wilson but they lack the leverage to take affirmative action to relieve their "burdens".
The question to be asked "Retaliation for what?"
Go to hell Mr. Baker... Biden started it... and what goes around, comes around. Maybe the NEXT President will stop this shit but for now... revenge is a dish best served cold.
Tough f*cking nuts.
"But, we'll be told, what Biden did to Trump is different."
I always wonder if they believe their own bullshit. I mean they can't; can they?
@gadfly I deleted your comment because it was off topic (and the first comment). Go to the last open thread to raise that topic. Don't hijack this one.
https://youtu.be/eFTLKWw542g?si=NBy_7cdm7Wa7JVg5
They lack the leverage to take affirmative action to relieve their "burdens"... other than attempted assassination of Trump, assassination of Kirk et al, and diverse actions to render their enemy nonviable or impotent, broken.
It is amazing the contrast in your attitude towards the charges against Trump (even if he did all the things stated in his various indictments, you thought it was inappropriate to pursue them)
Now that Trump is doing what you accuse Biden of doing, and directly and openly interfering with the DOJ (firing prosecutors until you find one that will do what he wants). He has also stated that these people are "guilty as hell" and bad or even evil along with a lot of other bullshit. You apparently that now everything is just fine and dandy.
What ever happened to "cruel neutrality"? But that was always bullshit, wasn't it?
The Democrats are so predictable and dishonest, I don't know why we even need them anymore. We can all write what their bullshit will be tomorrow. It's pretty simple: deny, project, "Hitler", "fascism".
They are simply too boring and dumb to pay attention to.
Freder, the difference is multifaceted and profound. There was no real evidence that Trump was guilty, his right to a strong defense and a fair trial was denied on multiple occasions, and he was clearly being pursued to prevent the American people from having a choice in an election. There are no such similarities with those facing prosecution now.
It is true that Trump is engaging in revenge for the way he was treated, while also escalating the response. And it is worrisome that his successors may behave similarly.
But the article is also correct that this is very dangerous. Nations throughout history have fallen because of such cycles of retribution.
Maga will say it's "unfair" that they need to be the ones to stop it. I can see their point. Nevertheless, I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not. To sacrifice one's pride for the sake of the country would be patriotic.
"Cycle of retaliation" is like "cycle of violence." It is employed to protect the originators of unethical or wicked action. Think of Hamas slaughtering Jews, and subsequent calls to protect them from consequences. Yes, they raped, mutilated, burned, murdered and kidnapped. But we can't have a "cycle of violence."
Well, why not? Making the cost high enough is what will stop the behavior. Disarming yourself will encourage it.
If the Dems defeat Vance that'll be Job 1. They'll call it 'Resetting the American Dream' or some such bullshit.
If there are no consequences for the Democrats, what will stop them from resuming their lawfare attacks once they have the opportunity? Certainly not their consciences or sense of fair play.
It's written for the left.
Reporters used to tell us that they were the country's 'institutional memory,' but they are too preoccupied with crafting their narrative and getting the message out. They are more forgetful and more willing to consign inconvenient truths to oblivion than the rest of us. AI, which relies on current journalism for its data, will play the same role the journalists do.
A question for the Democrats: What did you think would happen when you pursued criminal and civil lawfare against former president Trump?
Or maybe to Peter Baker: What did you think would happen when the Democrats pursued criminal and civil lawfare against former President Trump?
Precedent was set...by Obama, Hillary and the corrupt FBI, and media
If not this, then what? Just let them do it over and over, and pat yourself on the back for being above it all? There will be no second chance at justice if the Republicans do that.
BTW, justice is always retribution. It's always revenge. That's why what the Democrats did with power was not justice. It was not retribution for some wrong. It was just an attack, first blood.
There are none so evil as those who willingly lie, cheat and get people killed, Peter Baker.
It’s Justice, Revenge AND Retribution.
Embrace the power of AND!
DOJ waited to charge Trump with Jan 6 offences until it was too late. Had he been charged in 2021 or 2022 he would have been tried and likely convicted and would not be president today. If goal was political and to keep him out of White House they sure did a shitty job.
Can you imagine any other crime where the guilty would be taken serious when they say "you shouldn't prosecute me. That will just make me do the crime again"?
Democrats are afraid of being treated the way they have been treating their opponents.
Simple as that.
Murphy o Messina: quien es mas liver-lipped?
“If goal was political and to keep him out of White House they sure did a shitty job.”
Totes in character. Democrats do a shitty job of everything, FFS.
Don't start nothin' and there won't be nothin'.
Bernard Harcourt reports from a conference of leftists the key model variables that show that Trump is ruining democracy, starting from its peak democracy in 2016.
"they sure did a shitty job."
When have they NOT done a shitty job? It's their jam.
George W. Bush's biggest failing as president was his absolute complacency in defending himself from the dems' outrageous attacks. He apparently thought it was unbecoming of a president to fight back. All that did, however, was encourage the left to believe they could get away with anything. One can disparage what Trump is doing as "revenge," but it's really about fighting back against the schoolyard bully. Let the dems taste a little bit of their own medicine for a while and then let's see if they still want to make lawfare a permanent feature of our politics.
Who needs Jimmy Kimmel when we have the New York Times?
"What did you think would happen when you pursued criminal and civil lawfare against former president Trump?"
History of the left, proves that they never consider failure, and they can't see past the dashboard.
To sacrifice one's pride for the sake of the country would be patriotic.
"For the sake of the country" is doing the heavy lifting here, and it only works if you perceive prosecutions BY Trump as equivalent to the prosecutions OF Trump.. But as has been pointed out, the prosecutions OF Trump required "novel" readings of statutes, extensions of statutes of limitations, elision of jurisdictions, and of course friendly jury pools; these contemplated prosecutions BY Trump require only a straight reading of statute, existing statutes of limitations, clear jurisdictions, and while friendly jury pools would undoubtedly be preferred, they probably won't happen - at least not in every case. So, the question of whether Trump's "retribution" is going to destroy the country is pretty open, it seems to me, if his opponents under indictment are actually found guilty of ordinary crimes.
I sat out 2016 and 2020 because of "qualms" with DJT. After 4 years of Biden/Harris, voted DJT with glee and passion. Fuck it, full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes.
The way to avoid repeated cycles of violence or retribution is to allow one full cycle to play itself out.
"DOJ waited to charge Trump with Jan 6 offences until it was too late."
They didn't think it was too late. They wanted the trial during the campaign. But yeah, they effed up.
Oft evil will shall evil mar.
a what-goes-around-comes-around pattern
Joe Biden, the worst president of my lifetime, actively tried to arrest his opponent in 2024 and stay in power. He'll go down in history as Senile King Shit.
Donald Trump's "retribution" -- not done in an election year, mind you -- is aimed at crimes that people did in the past. If he were to sink to Joe Biden's level of depravity, he would be targeting Democrats running for president in 2028. He would indict Newsom or AOC or whoever. Four times! 90 felonies! Invented crimes!
But he won't be doing that. So (I hope) the TDS will recede in 2028. Either Vance will be in office, and their hatred will shift to new Hitler, or a Democrat will be in office. Whoever that might be, they will not have suffered as Trump did. So their personal animosity toward their opponents will be a lot less.
You'd have to imagine a Democrat president outraged at the treatment of James Comey, and vowing vengeance on his behalf. Really unlikely, I think.
Trump is like Reagan, only worse.
"I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not."
The Dems always count on that, and it's the very reason they thought they could do it with impunity. Weak men bring bad times. The Right is not all Christian. Christians simply have no alternative.
Let's rewind the tape to November of 2016:
“I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t,” Trump said, according to the tweets. “She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways.”
It’s a stunning departure from the campaign rhetoric, which could come as a shock to some of the President-elect’s most ardent supporters. The Times characterized one exchange as extending an olive branch to Clinton supporters.
“I think I will explain it that we, in many ways, will save our country,” he said.
Trump flips, now opposes prosecution for Clinton
so why not have one party rule so there are no foes!!
…all this propaganda does is lend support to the idea both sides know the left is guilty as Hell…
In 2016 Trump thought the way to save our country was to let Hillary Clinton walk free.
By 2024, he realized a lot of people would need to be jailed.
Here’s the Soros statement from today:
The Open Society Foundations unequivocally condemn terrorism and do not fund terrorism. Our activities are peaceful and lawful, and our grantees are expected to abide by human rights principles and comply with the law.
These accusations are politically motivated attacks on civil society, meant to silence speech the administration disagrees with and undermine the First Amendment right to free speech. When power is abused to take away the rights of some people, it puts the rights of all people at risk.
Our work in the United States is dedicated to strengthening democracy and upholding constitutional freedoms. We stand by the work we do to improve lives in the United States and across the world.
…again, the timing…
Slipperly snake Comey will be "lionized" only by those who benefited from this tricks, and those happy that he took the heat they'd otherwise received.
Bernard Harcourt is like AI. He's only as good as the crummy data he relies on.
He does remind me of why some people blame "critical theory" for all our problems. Whether or not they have a point, I don't see Bernie contributing any useful solutions.
Nice French accent, though. I like the glasses, too. His gaze reminds me of those x-ray or hypnotic glasses that used to be advertised in comic books.
’Nevertheless, I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not.’
I’m sure you do.
‘Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.’
S. Alinsky
The seed for this is called ‘Barack’.
One thing that seems like it will stop is the embedded DOJ/FBI/IC setting up high-level Admin people, including the President, for prosecution while they're in office. We know they don't do it to Democrats, so half the time is covered already. Trump 47 has finally figured out that independent counsels aren't, and that there's no such thing as just a meeting with the FBI. And he has just flat out refused to do anything with the attempted sting on Homan. A Trump appointee would have to rape and eat a baby live on Truth Social to have any chance of prosecution (if he does it on Facebook Live, we'll just call it a Zuckerberg deepfake to be on the safe side). And 47 is putting his own people deep into the LE and IC agencies, even if the cost is chasing out so many burrowers that the agencies' legitimate work suffers.
Because who cares how many bank robbers go free, or even how many terrorist attacks happen, if the elected government can get roadblocked by unelected bureaucrats who disagree with its policies? The latter is the real existential threat to our security and safety.
As for successive admins persecuting each other, I have previously suggested in these pages that each outgoing Potus should just blanket-pardon everyone who worked in his/her Admin for anything done in those four years. Better a hundred crooked appointees go free than one honest ideologue go to jail for those ideas. CC, JSM
"I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not."
As pointed out above, Trump did practice the virtues of turning the other cheek and letting bygones be bygones n his first go-around. He learned.
Forgiveness is not the same as avoiding justice.
The ballroom shows the Louis XIV component of Trump
Comey can always run for president. I mean, it worked fabulously for Trump.
"I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not."
Go to Hell. Is that Christian enough for you?
Funny that this shows up in my YouTube algorithm today: NY Senator Who Passed "Trump Assault Law" Now Calls It Unconstitutional After He's Accused! (1 year old story)
After the first administration, and Biden's follies, jollies, Trump has learned to lean in to proactively mitigate progress. Democrats, meanwhile, continue to Walz 'n Karma-la la.
Democrats are always benevolent good people. Changing laws to allow Trump to be sued is just good. Changing them back so their guy doesn't get sued perfectly good. If a Republican just brings charges for actual crimes then they are up to their old evil tricks. The only problem I have with prosecuting Comey is since he will be tried in Alexandria, VA there is likely to be a poisoned jury pool that will hang at best and acquit at worst. His triumphant tour as the wrongly prosecuted man righteously acquitted will be stomach turning.
We all know who started this. Trump has to end this unfinished business.
History begins again for these morons with each new Trump term. Remember Roger Stone. When, like Comey, he was charged with lying to Congress, his home was raided at dawn by 29 heavily armed FBI agents in tactical gear and he was arrested while CNN videoed the spectacle.
“I would hope that the side that professes to be Christian would practice virtues that others do not.”
Our God loves justice. Forgiveness and Justice are not mutually exclusive. Ignorance frequently leads to false hope.
The issue seems pretty straightforward to me:
If you don't do bad stuff, then you don't have to worry about retribution.
And vice versa
directly and openly interfering with the DOJ (firing prosecutors until you find one that will do what he wants).
Article II, Section 1, U.S. Contitution: The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
Article II, Section 3: [He] shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed
Nothing in there about the Justice Department, much less its “independence”…
The President is the chief law enforcement officer of the nation and could go into court and file the charges himself if he chose. The AG and all his underlings are nothing more than hired help. Talk of “independence” of the Justice Dept is seditious nonsense. If they were truly independent of our elected President, they would be unelected tyrants and worthy of armed resistance. You’d think the leftist morons who are always bleating about “Our Democracy” would stop and think once in a while about the diarrhea flowing from their own mouths.
Democrats always think they can do all of this awful shit, and never get called on it. they count on republicans being above all that and not pursuing revenge. Well now, finally, maybe the rules are different. I can only hope to see how Comey, Shiff, Brennan and Myorcas look in orange!
Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 2 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5 He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.
6 “He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’
7 “But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8 So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.
9 “What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.
So should Christians practice retribution? Apparently, if provoked.
From Matt Ridley on X:
I've noticed a common phenomenon. Let's call it the boomerang effect.
Lament the rise of an opinion or policy without noticing how your preferred policies helped cause it.
Vaccination rates down - because you wrecked the reputation of vaccines during the pandemic by over claiming.
Anti-immigrant feeling leading to difficulties for legal immigrants - because you welcomed millions of illegal immigrants and prevented them being deported.
Prosecution of political opponents - because you did it too.
Dislike seeing people cancelled for their opinions - because you started it.
Rising climate scepticism - because you censored reasonable criticism of climate extremism.
Anger at trans rights activists - because you shouted down concerns about men pretending to be women in sports and prisons.
Government attacks on universities - because you turned them into ideological madrassas.
Patriotic nationalism turning uglier - because you told people flags were racist.
Criticism of judges - because they became nakedly political.
Defunding of biotechnology - because you failed to call out dangerous gain-of-function virology as the likely cause of the death of 20 million+ people.
Etc etc
7:13 AM · Sep 27, 2025
Boomerangs trace a figure 8, about 2/3 of one.
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