... so that we wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's viewpoint discrimination. But with the failure to to articulate the violation, I think we are entitled to presume it was viewpoint discrimination. No jumping required.
That's my response to "Park Service removes statue of Trump and Epstein from National Mall/The statue, the latest installation by an anonymous group of artists critical of the president, was supposed to be on display until 8 p.m. Sunday" (WaPo)(gift link):
The National Park Service removed a statue of President Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein holding hands from the National Mall early Wednesday morning, a day after it was placed there. 'The statue was removed because it was not compliant with the permit issued," Interior Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Peace said in an email. She did not respond to follow-up questions about how or why the statue was not in compliance or if the department had provided the required 24-hour written notice before revoking the permit....
Carol Flaisher, a D.C.-based location manager, filed the permit application with the National Park Service on behalf of the artists who created the statue. She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked.
The permit issued to Flaisher says: “Superintendent may revoke this permit at any time after providing 24 hours’ written notice to the Permittee setting forth the reasons for the revocation.”
Yeah, it's a stupid statue. But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
ADDED: Reading more of the article, I see: "In a video of the statue’s removal provided to The Washington Post, a National Park Service official can be seen saying that the installation is 'out of compliance' because it is several feet larger than stated in the permit. The video was taken by a security team member who had been assigned to monitor the statue as required by the permit."
If that's the answer, why didn't Interior Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Peace put that in her original email response to The Washington Post? Why did she not respond to the follow-up questions if there is such an easy answer? If she cared about the First Amendment or if this really was the true answer, why wasn't she eager to provide it?
I see that "Flaisher said there was a height discrepancy because the base of the statue was not included in the permit approval. But she said no objections were raised when the statue was placed on the Mall, and she was never informed there was an issue."
So is it to be all about the plinth?
Posts
88 comments:
Another own goal by this administration of snowflakes, who cannot handle Jimmy and his mean words nor allowing bad art to sit on the mall a few days as the permit says.
Five years ago was peak woke and your average person turned away. Now we are at peak MAGA and the average people are beginning the turn.
r
It offends me. Knock it down. Same as the left did to our National Statues they were crying about......
How come artists didn’t make statues of Biden during his term? How about Biden sniffing the hair of little girls? Or one of him shuffling around with that dazed look? Or that speech in Philly with the Marines and red background? You know that one; the Nuremberg rally speech.
These artists think they are so clever, but they are too dumb to realize the death and destruction Biden brought to the country. Just look at housing prices. Or crime statistics. That’s all on Biden.
it's a stupid statue. But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
Heroes of the first amendment are always inconvenient. But why is political art always such childish dreck?
I feel comfortable speculating, without reading, on the general attitude of WaPo readers, as reflected in the comments section.
But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
Let's not get carried away. These silly stunts are by radical leftists for radical leftists. Nothing more, nothing less.
“ “It was depressing. I came here specifically to see the statue,” said Nigel Collie, 68, who was visiting from Portland, Oregon. “It’s another indication of the deterioration of free speech.”
1. Liar.
2. Nigel Collie?
3. Tell us about the free speech in Portland where Antifa shut down a federal courthouse.
Charlie Kirk was a living monument to free speech. Remind me again how many lefties were ok with his removal?
I think this is all purposeful. To make it look like the trump administration is tramping all over rights. Take the Kimmel thing. ABC had no intention of taking him off the air, or keeping him off the air, but never let a crisis go to waste! They could take him off for a few days, make it look like the Trump administration was SILENCING him, then bring him back on in a triumph of free speech and a decent bump in his miserable ratings (BTW, Matt Walsh gets more views than Kimmel). Give him a chance to do a weepy non apology: "I didn't say bad things, you just interpreted them wrongly." Now, let's put up a shitty statue, but fuck up the paperwork so that the government has to take it down, to make it look like the Trump administration is thinned skinned. Not everything is as it seems. This shit works great on the useful idiots.
From the article,
"a National Park Service official can be seen saying that the installation is “out of compliance” because it is several feet larger than stated in the permit. The video was taken by a security team member who had been assigned to monitor the statue as required by the permit.
Flaisher said there was a height discrepancy because the base of the statue was not included in the permit approval. But she said no objections were raised when the statue was placed on the Mall, and she was never informed there was an issue."
Maybe this is something that the park service can hang their hat on. But my gut reaction is that this statue at least got additional scrutiny for violations because of the what it depicted.
Is it viewpoint discrimination and a violation of the First Amendment if governments refuse to protect Statuary from mobs because of what is depicted in the statues, say statues from Americans who fought for the Confederacy or Founding Fathers who also owned slaves?
This fact seems to support the idea that the Park Service did take the present statue down because of a permit violation because a previous statue critical of Trump was left up.
"In June, the group placed an installation on the Mall titled “Dictator Approved” that included statements of support for Trump from authoritarian leaders Russian President Vladimir Putin, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro and North Korea’s Kim Jong Un."
All they had to do was put a sign on the statute saying it is a LIE... that Trump kicked out Epstein from his resort.. they were not friends once Trump found out just what he was.
@Dave Begley, 6:41- This article was already written before the "journalists" found some people to fill in the blanks.
Why are apparently random artists allowed to install "art" on the National Mall anyhow?
This follows the Biden adminstration allowing the installation of a sculpture of Pelosi's desk with poop on top -- in bronze (painted wood and foam). This happened in October 2024, and perhaps from the same political art group. In 2024 the NPS engaged in viewpoint advocacy.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/29/nx-s1-5169978/poop-desk-statue-tiki-torch-national-mall
Libertarian viewpoint: if the Feral Gummit did not own/control that patch of real estate, there would be no controversy about fair/proper use of its sovereign power.
It actually SHOULD have depicted Bill Clinton with HIS bestie Jeff!!!
The parks own permit states guidelines on compliance.
Dave Begley said...
How come artists didn’t make statues of Biden during his term? How about Biden sniffing the hair of little girls?
Oh, they did, but they used a much better medium than a national park that only reaches a few thousand people.
https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/237163020/Joe-Biden-Sniffs-Hair
Let’s just call it treason and arrest everyone involved with the statue. Put them on trial for their lives. If you’re going to be accused of being a dictator no matter what you do, you might as well show them what “authoritarian” really looks like.
Obvious lies ramp up engagement from the right, and that engagement churns up engagement from the left in response. It's a "virtuous cycle" if you think of it coldly in terms of ratings.
Shouldn't we at least wait until Harvard conducts a double blind peer reviewed study to tell us what the proper opinion is?
These mall installations are getting swept together with Trump's review and purge of left-wing content in the Smithsonian museums all around the National Mall. While under different management, NPS and the Smithonian coordinate.
Here, I suppose the Burning Man artists look for something to do in the offseason.
Purposes The purposes of this application are (1) to provide a National Park Service (NPS) Park Superintendent with information to
approve or deny requests for activities that provide a benefit to an individual, group, or organization, rather than the public at large; and
(2) to assist Park staff to manage the activity to ensure that the permitted activity does not interfere with the enjoyment of the Park by
visitors and that the natural and cultural resources of the Park are protected
It’s clear from the application the park service is making accommodations for special purpose use of the park, though political action is not explicit. Weighing the activity of the special interest vs the welfare of the general public is clearly weighed and they make it clear they prioritize the latter. The problem is lefties always believe their right to shit on others includes the requirement to provide the platform for them to do it. Shall not be infringed as they say…
…btw Ann’s 1A concern trolling is misplaced. Given where we are nobody will be persuaded to flip sides because of spats like this…
btw it’s illegal so shit in certain areas of a national park. Best to stick to locations designated for the activity…
I preferred the escalator "malfunction" because it got a lot more press coverage. But, if all you can get away with is moving a statue, go for it.
I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story.
Very clever. Whoever made the statue too big is taking a page from Trump's book. Covfefe.
Nope. Don't care. Garbage in, garbage out.
Reinstall it and have the "anonymous artists" identify themselves. The whole point of letting your freak flag fly is to make sure people understand how freaky you are.
The Epstein +Bill Clinton statue is next.
"Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story."
I would assume many on the left do. And this will be latched onto them as evidence of a pattern of behavior of authoritarian, specifically Free Speech stifling, behavior by the administration.
I have an idea. How about we just put art on the National Mall. Forget the stuff with an obvious, and might I say divisive point of view. And don’t give me that all art is political BS.
These are interesting:
ronetc said, "Why are apparently random artists allowed to install "art" on the National Mall anyhow?"
9/25/25, 7:01 AM
Zavier Onasses said, "Libertarian viewpoint: if the Feral Gummit did not own/control that patch of real estate, there would be no controversy about fair/proper use of its sovereign power."
9/25/25, 7:05 AM
wendybar said, "It actually SHOULD have depicted Bill Clinton with HIS bestie Jeff!!!"
9/25/25, 7:07 AM
rehajm said, "The parks own permit states guidelines on compliance."
9/25/25, 7:10 AM
Y'all brought it and made salient points. Nice.
Leftists sure do like to waste their own time.
Democrats are the party of hate, murder, assassination, lies and terror.
Trump should know this FFS : "The Streisand effect is a phenomenon where attempts to hide or censor information inadvertently increase public awareness of that information. It is named after Barbra Streisand, whose efforts to suppress a photograph of her home led to it being viewed by many more people than it would have otherwise.
I'm going to commission a statue of Epstein and Bill and Hillary.
Hopefully Kimmil (D) will shed tears on his show over it.
Democracy is over!
“Carol Flaisher, a D.C.-based location manager, filed the permit application with the National Park Service on behalf of the artists who created the statue. She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked.”
The reporters took her word for it? Did they check if permits have ever been revoked- either ones she applied for or other ones? We know the WaPo and NYT distort and misrepresent facts all the time. Why should we believe them this time?
Bill and Monica
also - Bill sexually assaulting Paula Jones.
Hillary throwing a heavy vase in a spat of rage.
All potential statues.
"I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story."
Not interested in this or any other stupid story. But that is just me.
That's very funny Howard. You can pronounce "very funny" in your head with whatever intonation you please.
lefties always believe their right to shit on others includes the requirement to provide the platform for them to do it
…even here in the blog there is a kind of sort of sometimes permit for speech and expression, except when that permit is revoked. Reasons are sometimes given like I’m not going to help your side other times the art is quietly removed without explanation…
While vile time wasting leftists waste time..
The Democrat Party's terror incentives and structures are being exposed.
here
and
here
Carol Flaisher. Perhaps she could be awarded with a heaping pile of horse shit in her driveway?
I call it "art"
“If it wasn't viewpoint discrimination but actually some violation of the terms of the permit, I think they would have articulated the violation... ... so that we wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's viewpoint discrimination. But with the failure to to articulate the violation, I think we are entitled to presume it was viewpoint discrimination. No jumping required.”
What if you had to argue that this statement is nonsensical?
Charlie Kirk's Assassin was aided by those Democrat Party terror structures.
I suspect that WaPo did not include the entire story. WaPo says Ms. Peace did not respond to a follow up email. How long did they give her to respond before running the story? An hour? A day? I imagine she has other tasks than to wait and respond to emails from WaPo.
Public spaces should be accessible and comfortable for everyone, not just the Jimmy Kimmel crowd.
Is it heavy? It does look dangerous. I’m sorry park officials did not prioritize Ann’s 1A objections over public safety. You get the government you deserve…
Good Morgin, Tim. I actually added ",asshole" to "very funny." The accent I used was 1975 southie .
"Enigma said...
This follows the Biden adminstration allowing the installation of a sculpture of Pelosi's desk with poop on top -- in bronze (painted wood and foam). This happened in October 2024, and perhaps from the same political art group. In 2024 the NPS engaged in viewpoint advocacy."
You make it sound like Biden was open enough to allow a statue critical of Pelosi. Which is bullshit. Here is what the plaque on that statue reads, and of course it's just lies:
“This memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021 to loot, urinate and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election,” reads the plaque on the pedestal below.
Speech suppression once again amplifes that speech.
Tonight Jimmy Kimmel will announce it was the MAGA people who put it up and the Biden people who took it down. Also anyone upset is just crying because their pet goldfish died.
So, was it freedom of expression to shoot Kirk or was it a denial of free speech to silence him?
@Curious George: No, I linked to the original story. The statue was obviously anti-Trump, as the poop incident happened on Jan 6 and came from the butthole of a Trump supporter.
So is it to be all about the plinth?
And now another episode of Bad Faith Conceptual Art, with your host Leonard Plinth-Garnell.
“This memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021 to loot, urinate and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election,“
Loot? Did they break the windows at the congressional Rolex store and steal the watches?
“But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.”
A “monument to freedom”? More like a monument to DemocRAT Idiocyand mental illness
Art on the left
"Loot? Did they break the windows at the congressional Rolex store and steal the watches?"
That one guy did take the Speaker's Lectern, which to me felt closer to college fraternity prank than an assault on Democracy. I also remember the media covering the return of the Lectern trying to act as if it was an important solemn moment. I also remember the media pedantically making distinctions between a Lectern and Podium.
There is no viewpoint discrimination under the regulations, which seem hopeless out-of-date given the prevailing petulance in the nation's capital.
In other words, I guess Trump's antagonists forgot about "Donnie Bone Spurs"?
§ 12.3 Definitions.
The following definitions apply only to the regulations in this part...
Commemorative monument means a monument, tablet, structure, or other commemorative installation of permanent materials to honor more than one veteran.
§ 12.9 Commemorative monuments.
(a) Application.
(1) A person requesting authorization to erect a commemorative monument shall submit such a request to the Director. The Director's approval should be obtained prior to fabrication of the commemorative marker since approval for installation is conditioned upon compliance with other specifications found in this section and all applicable provisions of this part.
(2) An applicant for authorization to erect a commemorative monument shall include the following information in the application:
(i) A list of the persons to be memorialized and the other data desired to be inscribed on the commemorative monument; and
(ii) A scale plan depicting the details of the design, materials, finish, carving, lettering and the arrangement of the inscription proposed for the commemorative monument.
(b) Specifications.
(1) The Director may only authorize a commemorative monument that conforms to the type, size, materials, design, and specifications prescribed for the historic design of the individual cemetery section in which it is proposed for installation.
(2) The Director may not approve a commemorative monument that bears an inscription that includes the name of the person(s) responsible for its purchase or installation.
(c) Expense. A commemorative monument approved by the Director may be installed only under the conditions that there be no expense or liability incurred by the National Park Service in connection with its purchase, fabrication, transportation, delivery and erection.
(d) Title to a commemorative monument vests in the National Park Service upon its acceptance by an official representative of the Director.
I don't see claiming the NPS is required to perform an immediate inspection of the installation as reasonable. I'm pretty confident the application and associated guidelines spell out the requirements to supply and then adhere to dimensional data (when in doubt, overestimate). You would think this would be understood by somebody as experienced in working with the NPS as Flaisher claims.
I'm also not putting much stock in the NPS spokesperson not knowing the reason immediately, either. I highly doubt the removal was widely communicated inside the NPS, and also highly suspect this was a request from the reporter made with just enough time to be able to print exactly what the story did, or the usual "didn't respond by press time".
Ms. Peace, the Interior Department spokesperson, was hired in 2021 by the Biden Administration.
https://www.legistorm.com/person/bio/234861/Jennifer_Elizabeth_Peace.html
https://www.legistorm.com/person/bio/234861/Jennifer_Elizabeth_Peace.html
Why are people who are permitted to make "free speech" installations on the National Mall allowed to do so anonymously?
Maybe Flaisher and the Park Service are are in cahoots to create a 1st Amendment incident to attack Trump with...because that's how dumb it is if Trump ordered the statue removed. It's something his enemies would do if they could.
The statue made the left look petty and childish until it was removed. Now it makes the President look that way...if he actually ordered it removed. Maybe it was just a dumbass who works for him thinking it would please Trump. Like Carr shooting his mouth off about Kimmel.
A large plinth that should have been the size of a small plinth.
"Chris said...
I think this is all purposeful. To make it look like the trump administration is tramping all over rights."
This is an interesting idea worth considering. Maybe this person intentionally erected the statue knowing it was out of compliance hoping the statue would be removed for that technical violation which could then be turned into a story about freedom of speech being quashed. In favor of that is the fact that she has been erecting statues in the mall for decades. It is highly unlikely that she would not at least be aware of the possible issue of permissible size and height of statues and whether or not this includes the plinth or not. Perhaps she knowingly constructed the statue in the manner it was, hoping it would be found to be non-compliant which it could then falsely be turned into a story about how freedom of speech is under attack. Bureaucracies tend to act like Bureaucracies and it is not unexpected for a statue that is several feet higher than the limit to be found non-compliant.
Any suggestion Trump is involved is made without any evidence, as they say. He's doing enough already without people dragging him into their pet controversy.
Please, I beg you, read the actual regulations (above).
So they knock down a statue of an authoritarian, fascist, dictator. Cool story.
"She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked."
An "Historic First"? How exciting!
"And this will be latched onto them as evidence of a pattern of behavior of authoritarian, specifically Free Speech stifling, behavior by the administration."
If not this, they'd find something else to get all wee-weed up over.
Is the artist protesting discrimination of sexual orientation (i.e. pedophilia)? That's a viewpoint. And while the practice is legal under Democratic law, in liberal ideology, it is still incongruent in polite company. Bitter clingers and all.
What if you had to argue that this statement is nonsensical?
Could be a little chilly tonight in the MeadeHouse.
If I’m president, I’m not tolerating a statue of me holding hands with a pedo to be placed on federal land. That’s not viewpoint discrimination. That’s defamation discrimination.
- Krumhorn
Someone needs to get a gripth here.
Viewpoint discrimination has been in place for decades. Let's stop pretending otherwise and cut out the performative vapors
Who said she didn't put that in her reply to rhe Washington POSt?
You trust the Washington POSt?
These people slandered Johnny Depp, Nick Sandmann, and several parents in Loudoun County.
As far as I know neither Trump nor Epstein were veterans.
I'm with ronetc: what are any new statues being permitted on the national mall? The Park Service should simply say 'no' to all applications. I don't want to look at some artist's vanity project if I visit the mall, nor do I want to see propaganda on behalf of or against either party. It's ridiculous.
"Maybe Flaisher and the Park Service are are in cahoots to create a 1st Amendment incident to attack Trump with...because that's how dumb it is if Trump ordered the statue removed. It's something his enemies would do if they could. The statue made the left look petty and childish until it was removed. Now it makes the President look that way...if he actually ordered it removed. Maybe it was just a dumbass who works for him thinking it would please Trump. Like Carr shooting his mouth off about Kimmel."
Same people who sabotaged the escalator and the teleprompter maybe.
I've been keeping this theory in mind. Trump's got a lot of people who may or may not be loyal to him and he can't keep track of it all.
Is RFK Jr. on his side?
Hmmm. Looks like someone has been trying to create a buzz for a while.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2025/06/26/yet-another-anti-trump-statue-has-shown-up-on-the-national-mall/
"There is no viewpoint discrimination under the regulations..."
The question is whether there is viewpoint discrimination in applying the regulations.
After granting a permit, they found a reason or claimed they found a reason to say that something wasn't technically followed and they were not straightforward about saying what it was.
From the NYT article on the subject: "While the provenance of the statue remains unknown, it resembles several other recent protest art installations that have temporarily appeared on the National Mall in opposition to Mr. Trump.
In June, a statue titled “Dictator Approved” depicted a golden thumb crushing the Statue of Liberty. Last October, a bronze artwork appeared showing a pile of feces on a desk carrying a nameplate of Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat and former House speaker, a satirical reference to damage done by Trump supporters who rioted at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021."
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/24/us/politics/trump-epstein-statue-dc-national-mall.html
“Is RFK Jr. on his side?”
My questions are more elemental: I question the faith of DemocRATs: are their words and actions spoken or done in good or bad faith? Is it love of country and/or countrymen that stirs and inspires them or is it the destruction and dissolution of same?
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.